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PowerPC Linux Beats Apple To Full G4 SMP Support
dburcaw writes: "PowerPC Linux developer Troy Benjegerdes just released the first
patch adding SMP support for the brand new dual processor Power Macintosh G4 systems just hours before Steve Jobs is set to
release the Mac OS X Public Beta at Apple Expo in Paris. This makes PowerPC Linux the first available operating system to contain full SMP support for the new machines. The patch
and test binary kernel is available here."
That is a good point, but I think most Linux programmers would have too much pride to use BSD stuff.
Thats what they said about the Celeron. However I have two on my system, on an Abit BP6 motherboard. According to rumour, the VP6 will supposedly be able to do the same for the Cel-2, and since its also by Abit, I believe that it just might. Plus there's a new version of the Powerleap slotket (Neo 370? I forget) which looks like it'll enable Cel-2's to be SMP'd.
Information courtesy of BP6.COM
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
Linux will suffer the same fate that Apple did if they keep trying to go after the same market as M$. The clueless desktop user market belongs to M$ for the forseeable future. DVD, absolutely, USB, definately, Winmodems? Fuck no!. We use linux because of speed and stability, a software driven modem takes away from the available system resources.
Go for the high end, go for the power users, M$'s foundation is too big to wear away, but you can leapfrog them and take the top.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Could you imagine emacs ported to OS X (I mean, using Aqua instead of X windows)? I'd pay money for that!
:)
Heh. Observe this post from the macosx-dev list yesterday. Might be closer than you think
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:25:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Emacs.app
From: Marc Respass
To:
CC: Mike Elston ,
on 9/12/00 12:54 PM, Michael B. Johnson at wave@pixar.com wrote:
> Marc Respass wrote:
>>
>> How is Emacs.app different from running emacs in Terminal? I've never seen
>> Emacs.app
>>
>
> Emacs.app was a wonderful, reasonably full-on native port of gnu-emacs for
> NeXTSTEP. It integrated
> seemlessly into the old, old Project Builder (i.e. double-click on a compile
> error in PB, it brought
> you to the correct line and file in Emacs.app). It had color, fonts, multiple
> windows, all the
> things one is used to under UNIX/X11 with gnu-emacs, but are sorely missed
> from bring "emacs" up in
> a Terminal.
>
> Now that I'm dipping my toe back in OSX, I miss it terribly as well.
Oh, that sounds awesome. Is the source to Emacs.app available somewhere? I'd
love to have a look.
--Marc R
Hi all, this is Jason Haas, one of the co-founders of LinuxPPC Inc. I'm mostly famous for alost having been killed by this drunk fuck in a massive SUV back in March. ;-)
;-) (I honestly don't know!)
;-)
LinuxPPC is not making any claims about Apple. We are not making any claims about our alleged "superiority" over Apple. We're thousands of times smaller than Apple, for one thing. Linux _might_ be superior to the MacOS, performance-wise, but Linux in general still has a ways to go before ease of use becomes more standard. We never compare ourselves to Apple. Never have, don't plan on doing that in the future.
Second, we're not announcing the SMP support. It will soon be on our FTP server, however.
Third, AFAIK, AltiVec (a.k.a. "Velocity Engine") has kernel support in some kernels, and Motorola has released patches for gcc, though I don't know if they've been intergrated yet.
Personally, I think it has a limited future. What would it help under Linux, anyway?
Last, I am doing much better despite Jerk Boy's efforts to kill me (literally). He didn't try hard enough.
Best,
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
-- haaz.
---
... erm ... some issues with what they are doing (and most of it revolves around the dock).
Ooo! Ooo! First nonsensical Mac Zealot Interface Post!
---
You make a lot of assumptions based on lack of information. You have no clue about my opinions and experiences of Apple's operating systems or that of others.
Now, if the definition of a 'Mac Zealot' is a person who uses a Mac and doesn't agree with all of your opinions, then I guess I fit the bill. Otherwise, you're pretty far off the mark.
To put it short, my only bitch with OSX is in the interface. A zealot would just take what Apple gives them and not question it - I have
Zealot indeed.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
Yep.
(telnet is off by default though)
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
"has anyone fixed that whole no DVD, USB, winmodem support problem yet."
<p>DVD drives seem to work fairly well in PowerPC Linux, at least as CD-ROMs, and if you compile in the UDF filesystem. USB also works pretty good on the PowerPC, it supports most keyboards and mice with Linux 2.2, and with the optional 2.4-USB backport, you can use many USB addons. Winmodem support really isn't a problem, as Apple has not shipped a machine with a Winmodem, in about 4 years now (the built in ones are pretty much standard hardware).
<p><i>"Why concentrate so much on all these great new things (don't get me
wrong this is good) when we can't even support the huge hardware base of our biggest competitor."</i>
<p>Who really gives a f?ck about our greatest competitor. They are free to do what they want. Not to mention PPC Linux is already getting far better.
<p><i>"Regular users don't want SMP support that want to be able to connect to the internet and type documents that there boss can read."</i>
<p>Well for many people SMP is more useful. Especially people with CPU intensive stuff. That other stuff can always be done some othertime.
Powerlogix' dual-G4 press-release was in February. As of today, the card still isnt listed on their website as a shipping product. Even if it was available, it would still be a daughterboard upgrade, and the early motherboard would still be a performance issue. Plus, the dual-350 card was listed at 1200 bucks. That would be around 800 UKP; The dual-400 G4 card was listed at 1600 bucks. Call that at least 1200 UKP.
Even if it weren't vapourware, no thanks. Like I say, I dont like the hefty price premium that goes with Macs.
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
SMP == symmetric multiprocessing
MacOS has never had symmetric multiprocessing.
It had support for multiple processors, but it was very asymmetric.
Basically all of the processors played hot potato with tasks until one of them got fed up and did it. =)
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
All I'm asking is for you to compare like with like.
Well, I'm not exactly the comparison is between a 1Ghz Intel versus a 500 G4. I'd rate the G4 around about an 800Mhz PIII, but I could be wrong. Now Dabs dont have 1Ghz PIII prices that I could find, but I guess a 933 is close enough, yeah? Or are you going to quibble over 70Mhz, maybe, even although the 500 G4 isnt exactly a brand-new chip.
All prices are Dabs.
- Dual Intel Motherboard & & & & 125
- Two 933 PIII's & & & & 380 each
- 256 Mb 133 RAM & & & & 230
- DVD RAM & & & & 300
- SB Live soundcard & & & & 40
- 300W Tower case & & & & 75
- Deluxe Kbd and Mouse & & & & 50 approx
- DVD ROM & & & & 85
- Gigabit ethernet & & & & 195
- (Dual) 64Mb ATI Rage Pro card & & & & 85
- 40Gb UDMA 66 Hard Drive & & & & 150
Total is a shade under 2100 before VAT. Thats at least 300 cheaper before VAT. Plus I can shop around. Plus, I think 850Mhz PIIIs are faster than 500Mhz G4's so I can drop a bit on the processors. Plus its a better graphics card (Twin ATI Rage Pro versus one) and better sound. And I have the -option- to forget 200 quid worth of gigabit ethernet, since neither my home nor work networks support it, if I choose.Dont get me wrong. I like Macs. Just dont like the prices, and the replace-as-upgrade syndrom.
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
Last I checked gcc did support altivec. Check it out, announced in may
h tml
http://slashdot.org/articles/00/03/24/1918240.s
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
However I wonder how good the actually support is. I mean intel SMP under linux sucked for quite a while and this is only an initial patch. I would not be surprised if the MacOS X beta had the performance edga, at least for a while.
What I really pont in BeOS on multiprocessor G4s. That would rock.
-- Oh Well
Apple beats LinuxPPC to a halfway usable user interface by around 16-17 years.
... erm ... interface oddities in the OSX release.
*yawn*
I'm impressed by LinuxPPC. I order each release they put out, and it's not bad given their marketshare. But bragging about SMP support when Apple has a lot more fish to fry is kind of stupid.
Other people have beaten Apple to the punch in other stuff. It's not really that big of a deal. I'm more concerned at this point that Apple isn't going to fix some of the
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
Your a sick mother fucker. you know that billy boy? You'd fuck tonya harding in her redneck ass. Your sick Billy. I tell ya. Sick.
Who's the black private dick, who's a sex machine for all the chicks?
Yup. And it will stay, as an optional download (they don't want developers asking users to drop to a CLI to install stuff, for example).
:>
And yeah, it's pretty much as you'd expect. I think tcsh is by default, or maybe bash. Not sure.
You'll be happy though.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
This article reminds me of the first post trolls!
Woo, we did it first!!!!
LOL
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
And firewire? And a ZIP drive? See - it isn't that much of a difference.
Hmmm, dont see Zip drives listed on the Apple site as part of the spec. Mind you I forgot a SCSI interface. So yeah, I guess it is closer than that.
But I did spec a good sound card and a much better graphics card.
Maybe its closer than I estimated then, although I still say dropping the processors about 12% (to 800Mhz) in speeds saves you about 300 quid in itself. Depends how you rate the 500Mhz G4 really.
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
See, Apple probably does these little thing called testing and bug-fixing before the release.
---
I am the dot in slashdot.org
The dual 450 (which doesn't have the DVD-RAM, half the memory and no gigabit ethernet) is a much more palatable 1600 pounds or so.
Where? At Dabs (typical, cheaper-than-most Mac dealer), the Dual 450 is 1600 plus VAT (at 17.5 percent, dont forget), for a 128Mb Model. The dual-500 is 2400 plus VAT, (Thats nearly 3000 altogether, BTW) for a 256Mb model.
Give me a URL, right now, for someone in the UK shipping Dual-500 Macs with 1Gb of memory for that price. Even Apple dont list the dual-500 as shipping with 1Gb of RAM, you been doing magic mushies?
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
i wonder if this was rushed out the door today as a PR stunt, just so LinuxPPC could claim some sort of techinical superiority over Apple? they've pulled this sort of thing in the past, piling the FUD on TerraSoft, which makes a competing PPC Linux distro, over clustered Linux-on-Mac solutions.
they may make the platform's #1 distro, but they play dirty as hell.
london is drowning and i live by river
Hmm... Could you just pull up a Telnet client and connect to localhost?
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
Here in the UK, a dual-500Mhz G4 costs around 2400 pounds of our dodgy UK money. In comparison to a dual-Intel system (say dual 800 PIII's, around 1400-1600 UKP max??). Meanwhile, I cant just pull the motherboard out of my blue'n'white G3 and replace it with a dual G4-capable one. The best I can do is a single-G4 daughterboard, and compromised performance on that because of the older motherboard.
Its one hell of a price premium on a shiny box and a fancy front end, especially if you wind up not actually using OSX anyways. Plus peripherals cost more, high-end consumer graphics boards for the Mac are impossible to find, and less likely to be supported. So even although I think they're dead pretty, and high on Cool Points, I'll pass.
Next revision of my system is an Abit VP6 (when it comes out) and twin Celeron II's running as fast as I can get them to go. I'll save about 2 grand.
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com