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More on NVIDIA's Involvement In X Box

Posted by Hemos on from the looking-in-the-box dept.

ManWithNoName writes "In the Private Eye, there's an interesting look at NVIDIA's involvement (which was officially announced today) in the X-Box, with their APU and iGPU and how these technologies could have the potential to be used for other products other than Xbox. There's also a very satirical "General Industry Interview" (involving Sony, Sega, 3dfx, NVIDIA, ATI etc...)with everyone involved in the industry that either is inside the Xbox or has tried to get into it over the pasty year. On a more serious note, the authors talk about a conspiracy that Microsoft's Xbox will punch the PC industry in the nuts with the whole Delay to DX8 causing NVIDIA, 3dfx and ATI to delay the releases of their next generation 3D chips, which are dependant upon the unreleased API."

42 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. releasing new products by Spider-X · · Score: 2

    ATI and NVidia both know now that it's a race just as it is for AMD and Intel for chips. They would not delay their release of a chip just because DX8 wasn't out yet. After all, they could add extensions to OGL to fully use their hardware. Hell, when the GeForce came out, no game existed that could fully utilize its power, and few exist today. Just because directx 8 isn't out yet doesn't mean that they won't release the new chips. After all, it's the drivers that wouldn't be released, not the chips.

    --
    witty sig goes here
  2. Re:I haven't been keeping up. by John_Booty · · Score: 2

    "If I'm not mistaken, all of the progress in Direct3d, from v1-v6 was to *catch* up to OpenGL.

    Which means, as of D3d6, MS is starting to reach parity with OpenGL"

    Well, if (according to you) they caught up to OpenGL around version 6, I guess they're PASSING OpenGL now, since D3D 7 has been out forever, and D3D 8 is on its way.

    Then again, I think you just got your version numbers mixed up. I haven't done any D3D since version5, which was a complete mess. I did a little OpenGL too, and it was very simple and clean. I guess I'll have to try some D3d 8 programming soon, just to see how it will progress. Yeah, I'll be a game programmer someday, suuuuuuure I will....

    --

    OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
  3. Re:DirectX and new feeatures by dsyu · · Score: 2

    What ever happened to the new 3D API, called Farenheit, that was to be co-developed by MS and SGI? I remember it was announced not long after the GL vs. DX wars went into full swing, about 3 years ago. Where did that go?

    Farenheit was basically dropped by both MS and SGI. SGI opted to concentrate more on the open-source, OpenGL on Linux, etc. There's a lot of debate on whether MS really ever intended to do stuff with Farenheit, or if it was a merely something they did to keep folks busy while they simultaneously marketed DX/D3D.

    Does really matter, however. The end result is that Farenheit is effectively dead.

  4. Operations per second vs GFLOPS by NaughtyEddie · · Score: 2
    So did anyone else get confused when they said it did 1,000,000,000 operations per second, but 140 GFLOPS? WTF? If it does 140 GGLOPS, that's 140,000,000,000 operations per second; if it does 1,000,000,000 operations per second, it's pulling 1 GFLOP.

    Don't tell me they're counting the blending multipliers.

    --

    --
    It's a .88 magnum -- it goes through schools.
    -- Danny Vermin
  5. Re:Can someone fill me in? by bssea · · Score: 5

    I just went to an X-box presentation last Wednesday where that exact question was asked.

    Their answer, in short, was that they are Microsoft. They make DirectX, therefore it makes since for them to push DirectX. The Dev guy also stated that if anyone wishes to make an OpenGL subsystem for the Xbox, they are welcome to, but it won't be supported by Microsoft.

    One of their exact quotes was:
    "Why put our eggs in 2 baskets that are half-assed, when we can put them all in one and it be kickass." This was from the Multimedia Head of the Xbox Dev Team.

    Also, they stated that it will not BSOD.. they can't afford that. That quickly got questions like: "Then what color is it?". heh, quite funny.. you had to be there I guess.

    But, overall, the presentation really didn't impress me... too much "This is what 10% of the theorectical power of the Xbox will be able to do" crap.

    Well.. that's my bit for now.

  6. Re:Vendors waiting for DX8 by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 3

    Think how much more Blizzard would make if they re-released all their titles for Linux

    Judging from past experiences, including Q3 for Linux, I think the answer is "not much." Linux may be growing 2000% a year or whatever, but it's a strange market. If you make one minor license screw up, you end up as a Slashdot headline and vigilantes bring down your site. Warning: This is how many developers see the culture surrounding Linux. Don't laugh it off.

  7. Re:I'm skeptical about the X-box by zlite · · Score: 2

    Fair enough. But could you please follow the link in my original post? Sony isn't #2, Microsoft is. And that's not just computer related circles, it's overall brand recognition.

    You got a better source than Interbrand for your claim? Post the link.

  8. Re:I'm skeptical about the X-box by tealover · · Score: 2

    He won't follow the link. There is nothing that he can read that would change his preconceived notions. That is why he is a loser.

    I will buy the Xbox the second it is released. I'm hearing the same from most of my friends. Even the lamers who think they're Bill Joy jr. because they run Linux.

    --
    -- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
  9. bad mojo by small_dick · · Score: 2

    xbox...no, i don't think so.

    why on earth would anyone want to buy closed hardware? to use with closed software? just because the imac did well, doesn't mean this thing will take the industry by storm.

    in fact, if it does well, it could have a devastating effect on microsoft. let's face it, there are numerous hardware companies that can probably bring a better, faster, cheaper product to market than MS, and have it be an open standard (they wouldn't have misguided loyalty to der fuhrer)

    MS has had awful luck with previous ventures into hardware. the only two devices that ever sold were the mouse and keyboard, which, as i recall, were invented elesewhere and BBB (bought by bill).

    i stopped buying MS software/products in about 1993, after they settled with stac, cuz i don't buy products from illegal, lying corporations. i did buy a natural keyboard, tho. i just don't understand why anyone would use a microsoft anything, given a choice.

    about a year ago, i stopped buying computer hardware -- mostly because of bill (and friends) outrageous behavior in a court of law. i really have no interest in spending any money on PC hardware or software until MS is basically destroyed.

    here's hoping the Xbox will be another nail in the coffin. fortunately, i have enough put aside from my unix career that i'll be able to just walk away from it all in a year or so, even if bill is able to bribe/lie/cheat his way through his legal problems again.

    --


    Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
    See my user info for links.
  10. Great advances? by crovira · · Score: 2

    Has anyone ever noticed that projects which were started to make great advances have never yielded the great advances they were supposed to deliver. (Like the Aswan dam, Reagan's "austerity" budget which racked up the largest deficit in US history, contact with sport safety equipment being the leading source of sport injuries, etc.)

    I have a sneaky suspicion that the X-box that will eventually come out of the pipe won't be the be-all and end-all that is being touted and that the premises (I won't call them promises, they are more like soggy dreams,) are going to seem like the other stains in somebody's shorts when something finally pours out of the pipe.

    Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends on what you put into it. This is the same bunch that took six years to kludge up an OS (NT) that's still worse that what a kid in Finland managed with no budget but with a lot of friends

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    1. Re:Great advances? by Mr.+Barky · · Score: 2

      It doesn't have to make great advances. That's just Microsoft's hype (really part of everything they do). I think the most interesting thing I've read about the X-Box was written by Robert X Cringely:

      A Shot Across the Bow

      Quick summary of the article: they're basically fighting to keep Windows a monopoly. They feel threatened by the potential of Sony's Playstation 2. They will fight hard and dirty in this fight and use up a huge amount of resources. They win if they keep Sony out of the PC space and leave them in their game's space.

  11. Re:Wouldn't it be cool... by EvlG · · Score: 2

    They ARE making a network countroller and a sound chip for the X-Box. Their chip is supposed to be used as an ultra-high-end DSP to generate all the neato surround sound effects, as well be a "broadband" gateway, effectively turning the X-Box into a 'residential gateway' for everything hooked up to it.

  12. Re:Wouldn't it be cool... by tealover · · Score: 2

    check out this white boy trying to be controversial.

    one eminem is enough.

    --
    -- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
  13. Been there, done that, told not to, still will? by ackthpt · · Score: 4

    On a more serious note, the authors talk about a conspiracy that Microsoft's Xbox will punch the PC industry in the nuts with the whole Delay to DX8 causing NVIDIA, 3dfx and ATI to delay the releases of their next generation 3D chips, which are dependant upon the unreleased API.

    This would certainly not endear them to the DoJ, let alone lend credibility to their comical denial of monopolistic behavior. I keep expecting M$ to learn and shape up, but it's like there's pattern of behavior... Too bad Bill's not in California, we could possibly get him on the 3 strikes and cool him off in the pokey ;-)

    Interesting side note (considering for a second the capacity at the XBox to do other than play games) The Register concerning the ditching of M$ ActiveTV by AT&T


    It's all true! ±5%

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  14. Still my question is unanswered by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2

    Well, GL hasn't been sitting still, either. GL was released 1.0 on 1992. 1.1 in 1997, and 1.2 came out in 1999.

    1.2 adds 3d texture mapping, multi-texturing, new pixel formats, specular lighting, level-of-detail etc.

    V1.3 is under proposal, though I can't find anything concrete about it.

    But this is why I asked; what is D3D doing that's surpassing OpenGL?

    The nick is a joke! Really!

    --

    GPL Deconstructed
  15. DirectX and new feeatures by EvlG · · Score: 4

    DirectX is winning lots of developers because MS actually implements new features and concepts ina standardized way in the API. All you get with GL is a bunch of vendor-supplied extensions. The paradigm for development hasn't changed at all for GL, whereas DX has moved along with the times.

    That said, I think GL has a superior implementation. It's just a shame that GL is withering away in the face of new feature developments, losing to the MS machine.

    What ever happened to the new 3D API, called Farenheit, that was to be co-developed by MS and SGI? I remember it was announced not long after the GL vs. DX wars went into full swing, about 3 years ago. Where did that go?

    1. Re:DirectX and new feeatures by Allen+Akin · · Score: 3

      The September OpenGL Architecture Review Board (ARB) meeting was held on Tuesday and Wednesday, so I'll pass along a few observations.

      • Running an open standard in these days of hyperactive lawyers is a pain. One concern is that people adding new functionality to OpenGL (or even reviewing specifications for it) might sneak in some proprietary intellectual property. If this made it into the standard unchallenged, the owner could then reap a substantial windfall by suing anyone unlucky enough to implement it.

        The way this problem is solved is to require anyone active in the ARB to sign an agreement stating that they'll simply disclose any proprietary interest they might have in features that are being considered for use in the API.

        This is a good deal, in my opinion; you don't actually have to give up your rights to any intellectual property you might own, and you gain insurance that no one else will "submarine" a patented technology into the API. I encourage anyone who's interested in participating in the development of OpenGL to sign the agreement. See the ARB FAQ link on this subject for more information.

        The flip-side is that if you haven't signed the agreement, you can't be included in the discussions, so there's no easy way to know what's actually going on. For example, you couldn't know much about the new features going into the API. :-)

      • As far as features go, everyone should understand that what really counts is what's supported by the hardware. OpenGL and D3D actually have similar ways of exposing these features. Microsoft puts things into the D3D API whether or not the hardware vendors can actually support them, and then adds capability bits and pipeline validation queries so that applications can determine at runtime whether the features will work. The ARB and individual vendors put extensions into OpenGL, and then add the names of the extensions to the extensions string so that applications can determine at runtime whether the features will work.

        You get the idea -- the bottom line is really pretty similar for the two APIs. Just because a feature is "in" D3D doesn't mean it actually works; just like in OpenGL, you need to test to see what works and be prepared to adapt your code to run on a particular chip or card.

        This isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. As long as the hardware vendors are developing new features, there'll be differences between them that app developers have to live with. But the competition exposes new ideas and the market will eventually encourage the ones that are useful.

      • Just for the record, things discussed at this ARB meeting included programmable vertex processing, rendering to textures, encapsulating vertex data in objects that can be processed faster by T&L hardware, advanced pixel processing, and new memory management schemes for textures and other objects. You'll probably see this stuff being usable in OpenGL about the time hardware actually supports it, just like D3D.

      Oh, yeah, Fahrenheit. Long story there. Bottom line as I understand it: As far as Microsoft is concerned, D3D8 or 9 essentially is the Fahrenheit Low-Level API. SGI isn't participating in that effort any longer. The Fahrenheit Scene-Graph API exists, and you can actually buy it from Microsoft, but there's no support for it, so its future is uncertain.

      Allen

  16. Hardware alone can't carry a system.... by ironman8250 · · Score: 2

    While the XBox may have superior performance over something like the Playstation2, think about what matters most in a game machine.... the games!

    Microsoft's developers are all PC platform developers which means most of the games of the XBox are going to be nothing more than ports of PC Games (why wouldn't you just play them on the PC in the first place), whereas Sony has a huge developer base, experienced in developing CONSOLE titles. Sure, there's some overlap, some games play equally well on either console or PC, but some just flat out SUCK ported to console (Descent, Doom... need I say more?).

    Just something to think about, the hardware alone cannot make the system. It takes software thats popular to drive a system to the top. Why do you think that the original playstation still has new titles coming out for it? It's certainly not the fastest/prettiest console out now... it's cause the system is popular, and it's popular cause it has a lot of games, and some extremely good ones.

    It will be some time before the XBox gets enough really good titles behind it to do anything to the popularity of Sony's and Sega's systems.

  17. you answered your own question... by slothbait · · Score: 4

    > It's already here AND it's cross-platform.

    Which is *exactly* why Microsoft won't use it. "Cross Platform" gives them nightmares. MS's mission is to lock consumers into *their* products, *their* systems, and *their* way of doing things. That way consumers are forced to keep buying MS, no matter what sh*t the company puts out.

    Cross Platform means easy migration, which is wonderful for consumers, and horrible for Microsoft. If you could easily pick up shop and take your business elsewhere, MS would be forced to provide a decent product to win your business. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. I keep hoping that consumers will wake up and realize that MS's actions are not in their best interest, but that's probably asking too much.

    I can dream, can't I?

    --Lenny

  18. No open documentation? NO BUY nVidia! by maynard · · Score: 3
    After getting their act together with XF86 support, they're regained the loving affection of the Linux community.
    If "getting their act together" means only releasing proprietary beta drivers for a specific Xfree86 4.x revision without any hardware documentation, then God help us if it's the last act of the play. Frankly, I'm hoping ATI and the Utah-glx project comes through with quality Radeon drivers. And if they don't, then I'll just skip a generation and pray for a decent Voodoo card next time.

    The GeForce is quality hardware, but I won't spend a dime for a black box lacking proper documentation. Intelectual property my ass, this is a $400 card we're talking about! Can you imagine Ford claiming they can't document the internals of your new car because of "Intelectual Property" issues? Would you buy that car? Would you have bought an S-100 Dazler shipped without documetation?

    I'm a long time Linux user, and let me say: after going through the undocumented video card mess from Diamond years back, nVidia gains no "loving affection" from me. The last thing I need is to be forced into a video card upgrade because nVidia stopped updating drivers for MY old card and nVidia can't release their "Intelectual Property" (read: documentation) to their customers. Been there once before, NOT AGAIN!
    1. Re:No open documentation? NO BUY nVidia! by HeUnique · · Score: 2

      Sorry pal, but the ATI Radeon will be supported only on XFree 4.0.2 and up...

      No XFree 3.3.X or Utah-GLX support for it. But it will have DRI supported under XFree 4.0

      --
      Hetz (Heunique)
  19. Some information by Amon+CMB · · Score: 3

    I found this interesting article on the internet recently:

    http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/x box.html

    I'm wondering about those legacy PC bottlenecks on the xbox. It's on a x86 based processor going against a 100% 128-bit PS2 Emotion Engine that's got a main 300 mhz CPU and two vector coprocessors that blow Pentium III floating point ops out of the water.

    For example, SquareSoft is trying to make their beat-em-up, The Bouncer, have Dolby Digital 5.1 support in gameplay. They used to think it was impossible, but it might not be so with the VU units. It seems MS just thought "Hey, we can beat 300 mhz easy!" without thinking about the hidden trump card in the PS2. Also, I noticed the 6.4 GB/sec memory bandwidth on the Xbox (shared, so it indludes video memory speed). And the PS2 has dedicated VRAM that flies at 48 GB/sec. So what do you guys think?
    - Amon CMB

    --


    Men believe what they want. - Caesar
  20. Wouldn't it be cool... by AFCArchvile · · Score: 2

    if NVidia started making network controllers and soundcards? Now that would rock! Considering that numerous Aureal employees are now working for NVidia, and Guillemot is a trusted partner, this could spell a new era for soundcards. Enough of this AC97, skimpily buffered, below 64 hardware channels crap; it's time for a MAN's soundcard!

    --
    "Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
    1. Re:Wouldn't it be cool... by evilned · · Score: 4

      In further news today, Aureal was bought by Creative Labs, so the old a3d tech (great 3d sound in windows, but linux drivers that were about as good as two tons of cow manure) is owned by them. Judging by creatives past record of innovation on the sound front (they sold the same card with no features added for three years straight) I wouldnt hold my breath on them innovating any until another upstart Aureal type company pops up. Even then you have only have the time between the sound card shipping till creative sicks their lawyers on them.

      --

      "My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett

  21. I'm skeptical about the X-box by cnkeller · · Score: 2
    I don't know about this whole X-box thing. Microsoft taking on Netscape and Oracle is one thing, those guys are big in the computer industry, but fairly small fish in the pond.

    Microsoft taking on Sony?? You got to be kidding. Sony is the second most widely known name in the world (behind Coke). I don't think they're going to roll over anytime soon. I wouldn't be suprised if the X-box was Microsoft's Network Computer. Sorry Larry, the time wasn't right for that either...

    What directX conspiracy? Sony is the name for game consoles. Have they even heard of Nvidia or DirectX?

    --

    there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots

    1. Re:I'm skeptical about the X-box by zlite · · Score: 3

      Actually, Sony is not the second most-widely known brand in the world: Microsoft is. Microsoft's also the world's second largest game publisher. So what was your point again?

    2. Re:I'm skeptical about the X-box by zlite · · Score: 2

      How are games not part of "computer related circles"? Before the PSX came out, nobody would have ranked Sony above Microsoft in terms of *relevent* brand power in this market.

      The point is not whether Sony will roll over or not, it's whether Microsoft has what it takes to reach critical mass with a game console. And my answer is that if they execute well, there's no reason why they can't suceed. They have all the necessary ingredients: brand, technology, money, experience and motivation. And sorry to break it to the evil-empire contigent, but so far they seem to be doing everything right.

    3. Re:I'm skeptical about the X-box by zlite · · Score: 2

      Uh, I'm actually writing from Tokyo, on my way to Hong Kong, where I live. And I didn't say Sony wasn't huge, I just said (or rather, I cited those who actually know this stuff) Microsoft was even more huge.

      Why doesn't someone cite the *evidence* to the contrary, rather than just blowing wind?

    4. Re:I'm skeptical about the X-box by zlite · · Score: 2

      (sorry, repeat post: crappy /. servers!)

      Slightly busted. Microsoft's only the second-largest *PC* game publisher, according to PC Data (click on "more lists" and checkbox your way down to PC game software). Microsoft doesn't publish for consoles.

      Given that xbox is a hybrid of a PC and a console, I don't really know which market is most relevent in establishing Microsoft's brand. But they are indeed huge, even in games, as I hope I've proven.

  22. Microsoft's money will help the rest of us here... by Gendou · · Score: 3

    Microsoft is clearly pouring a great deal of money into the XBox. A lot of it is, of course, going to nVidia. nVidia in turn, uses this big bag of free money to create a killer 3D accellerator (200 million triangles / second I believe?) for the XBox. Clearly it's unlikely that nVidia would not simultaneously (or a shorttime thereafter the XBox is released) present video card manufacturers with this technology. I also doubt that nVidia would do anything to limit this accellerator by making it DX8 specific. It'll support OpenGL too. (Why wouldn't they support OpenGL? After getting their act together with XF86 support, they're regained the loving affection of the Linux community.) So, after all that wordiness, my point is that we can actually thank Microsoft for helping to fund a truly great product on the part of nVidia. Thanks Bill!

  23. Re:Vendors waiting for DX8 by British · · Score: 2

    Are you sure that'd take off? With the "software should be free" mentality with Linux, Blizzard would sell 100, maybe 200 copies at most. I sincerely doubt they would turn a profit.

  24. I haven't been keeping up. by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 3

    So please clue me in on the advancing nature of Direct3d.

    At least, I'm separating DirectX from Direct3d, because comparing the sound libraries of DirectX is meaningless.

    If I'm not mistaken, all of the progress in Direct3d, from v1-v6 was to *catch* up to OpenGL.

    Which means, as of D3d6, MS is starting to reach parity with OpenGL.

    Which features are you talking about, in terms of GL, is M$ overtaking them? GL does rely on vendor extensions because it makes sense; each vendor will *want* to supply optimizations and features that they have, and when everyone else has those features, the GL board will increment the version number and include that feature into the set.

    M$'s way is to implement in software mode, what isn't found in hardware, isn't it? That's not terribly useful, actually, if software can't keep up, and if software can keep up, then there is no need for there to be vendor implementations, right? So software supplied multi-pass texture is useless in this light.

    So as far as I can tell, GL isn't behind and M$ isn't actually doing all that much.

    The nick is a joke! Really!

    --

    GPL Deconstructed
  25. Humor impared by zlite · · Score: 2

    Sorry to break up your rituous rant, but the parent was *sarcasm*. The P Naughton bit should have tipped you off.

  26. OpenGL as vendor extensions faster than DirectX by tjwhaynes · · Score: 3

    But this is why I asked; what is D3D doing that's surpassing OpenGL?

    As far as I can tell, nothing. All the 3D accelerated functions available on my NVIDIA card are exposed under the OpenGL 1.2 spec, GL_ext_ extensions or on NVIDIA specific extensions - GL_NV_. This is of course on Linux using the NVIDIA drivers and the NVIDIA GL/gl.h etc. headers converted to Linux. In many respects the functionality of the card is available faster on OpenGL than DirectX because the Vendor specific extensions do not have to go through the OpenGL ARB before being implemented, whereas vendors are dependent on DirectX being releases with their own extensions built in.

    Cheers,

    Toby Haynes

    --
    Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
  27. That's why I read Slashdot... by tycage · · Score: 3
    The vivid imagery.

    ...Microsoft's Xbox will punch the PC industry in the nuts....

    ;)

    --Ty

  28. Can someone fill me in? by FascDot+Killed+My+Pr · · Score: 3

    I don't understand why you'd wait for the next version of DX--why not just use OpenGL? It's already here AND it's cross-platform.
    --
    Linux MAPI Server!
    http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/

    --
    Linux MAPI Server!
    http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
    (Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
  29. I've stayed out of the console market by Geccoman · · Score: 2

    so far, I've only played one game on my brother's playstation. I've always been a computer gamer. Looking at the stats on this thing and knowing that NVidia is putting some pretty killer hardware in there, I might have to consider one of these when they are released. Is there a price guesstimate out there anywhere?

    Also, are there any major game makers planning on developing for the X-Box? Maybe an X-Box only type game? Like Mario is only for Nintendo, something like that?

    Come to think of it, I wonder if the X-Box will have a mascot? Maybe a cute little Borg!

    --
    I'm on a chair.
    1. Re:I've stayed out of the console market by Masem · · Score: 2
      The thing that keeps me away from buying a console, even though I always drool over the graphics and game play, is that once you've played the game in solo mode, there's very little else you can do with it; on the PC, most games that come out today have the ability for third parties to distribute mods for them, and therefore the game is no longer static.

      Of course, currently on both consoles and PCs, there lacks games that offer nearly random play in single-player mode, ala Tetris or Astroids. Age of Empires II has a random game mode, and the revamped Reach for the Stars has a random mode as well, but there need to be more of these.

      --
      "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
      "I can see my house from here!" - ST:
  30. Funny you should say that... by Will+The+Real+Bruce · · Score: 2

    May I have your attention please,
    may I have your attention please,
    will the real bruce perens please stand up,
    I repeat will the real bruce perens please stand up
    .....we're gonna have a problem here.........

    Ya'll act like you never seen a slash poster before
    mouse all on the floor
    like mom and daddy just burst in the door
    and started whoopin yer ass worse than before
    they first had endorsed
    buyin' ya a crappy computer (aaaaaah)
    It's the return of the...
    "awww..wait, no wait, you're kidding,
    he didn't just say what I think he did,
    did he?"
    and Mr. Cray said...
    nothing you idiots, Mr Cray's dead
    he's locked in my bassment
    microsoft women love Sig '11
    chicka chicka chicka bruce perens,
    "I'm sick of him, lookit him
    walkin around, grabbin his GNU know what
    flippin' to GNU know who"
    "yeah, but he's so smart though"
    yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose
    but no worse than what's goin on in your sister's webcam (eheheheh)
    sometimes, I wanna get on ZD and just let loose
    but cant, but it's cool for RMS to hump a dead GNU
    My mouse is on your link, My mouse is on your link
    and if you're lucky, I might just give it a little click
    and that's the message that we deliver to little kids
    and expect them not to know what a free software is
    of course they're gonna know what Microsoft is
    by the time they hit 4th grade
    they got MS-NBC, dont they?
    we ain't nothing but omnivores
    well, some of us carnivores
    who read other people's mail like crackwhores
    but if we can read your e-mail like it's available
    then there's no reason that a man can't forge spam from your account
    but if you feel like I feel, I got the antedote
    trolls wave your penis birds, sing the chorus and it goes........

    I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so won't the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up
    cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up

    Sig 11 don't got to cuss in his posts to get Karma
    well I do, so fuck him and fuck you too
    you think I give a damn about my Karma
    half of you trolls can't even stomach me, let alone stand me
    "but bruce, what if you win, wouldn't it be weird"
    why? so you guys can just lie to get me here
    so you can sit me here next to Natalie here
    shit,Enoch Root's momma better switch me chairs
    so I can sit next to trollmastah and Post First
    and hear em argue over who modded it down first
    little troll, flamed me back on IRC
    "yeah, he's fast, but I think he types one-handed, hee hee"
    I should download some audio on MP3
    and show the world how you released it BSD (aaaaaah)
    I'm sick of you little troll and l33t groups
    all you do is annoy me
    so I have been sent here to destroy you
    and there's a million of us just like me
    who post like me, who just don't give a fuck like me
    who code like me, walk, talk and act like me
    and just might be the next best thing, but not quite me......

    I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so won't the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up
    cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up

    I'm like a head trip to listen to
    cause I'm only givin you things
    you troll about with your friends inside you rabbit hole
    the only difference is I got the balls to say it
    in front of ya'll and I aint gotta be false or sugar coated at all
    I just get on the web and spit it
    and whether you like to admit it (riiip)
    I just shit it better than 90% you trollers out can
    then you wonder how can
    kids eat up these posts like gospel verse
    it's funny,cause at the rate I'm going when I'm thirty
    I'll be the only person in the chat rooms flirting
    cyberin with nurses when I'm jackin off to porno's
    and I'm jerkin' but this whole bag of viagra isn't working
    in every single person there's a bruce perens lurkin
    he could be workin at Micron Inc., spittin on your SDRAM
    or in the printer queue, flooding, writin I dont give a fuck
    with his windows down and his system up
    so will the real perens please stand up
    and click 1 of those fingers till you drag up
    and be proud to be outta your mind and outta control
    and 1 more time, loud as you can, how does it go? ...........

    I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up
    cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up

    I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up
    cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
    all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
    so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
    please stand up, please stand up

    haha guess it's a bruce perens in all of us........
    fuck it let's all stand up

    --
    Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
  31. Re:I remember when Bill Gates was on Larry King Li by ackthpt · · Score: 2

    IMHO he says what his advisers want him to say, then he says what he wants to. Pity is, he doesn't realize how much this qualifies him to run for president. It's like the kiss of death.


    It's all true! ±5%

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  32. Not just for teenage boys... by War+Bacon · · Score: 2
    Actually, if you actually knew people who played games, and knew which people played what games, you might realize a few things.

    First of all, not all games are made for the 13 year old hyperactive destructive kid (and I don't believe all of that media bullshit which tells us that violent games make kids violent; you can tell what is real by the age of 3..). There are actually games which are calm, and require some thought. I'm not saying it's gonna make you a genius or be harder than your Robust Digital Signal Processing class, but they aren't made to be for the twitchy-fingered young-uns.

    Second, you might notice who plays the games: there are actually a lot of people in their 20s or 30s who play games, and they play all kinds of games. However, I must say that it is true that most young gamers do play twitchy games....

    Oh. And there are Barbie games, as well as, gasp, a Barbie printer! It's sooooooo cute!

    Ahem.

    Just tryin' to defend us gamers some... Hyuk....

    Fnord.

    Quake 3 Arena!

    Diablo 2

    Counter Strike!!!

    The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind!

  33. Re:They need more female friendly games by malkavian · · Score: 2

    My current GF loves these games as much as any guy I've met.. :)
    So do a lot of women...
    I think, if you look at the amount of time spent behind a keyboard by gender division, you'd find the amount of games purchasers/players are consistent with the PC home users figures.