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First Transmeta Notebook
ggrappone writes: "CNet has a story on the first Transmeta notebook." Looks to be the same as the mini Sony VAIO picture book. Runs a 600Mhz Crusoe chip, and they claim substantial battery improvements with no performance hit. But apparently they'll be available in the states soon, so we can see for ourselves.
Since the Crusoe has lower power consumption, I wonder if Sony was able to use a quieter fan or perhaps eliminate the fan altogether.
"real laptops for people demanding tasks", with big screans and more features doesnt seem like the place for transmeta chips, because the increased battery life would be less apparent.
when you keep adding -stuff- to a laptop the percentage of power that the cpu pulls from the system will become smaller... the big lcd's, etc, will still pull lots of juice in crusoe systems as it would in other systems.
i think that is why we will see transmeta chips become more dominant in this "little itsy things" line of 'puters.
-lex
As far as I know the Processors made by Transmeta simulate the X86 command set.
There are commands which are slower as compared to Intel Processors (I think it was tested with CPU Bench). But the fact is, that this Version of the benchmark wasn't correct. The routines which have been slower are uncommon.
The developers of this Benchmark said, that they will improve this "mistake". I'm not up to day with the Benchmarks, but I think that the emulation of an Instruction set is always asociated with the loose of performance.
But not everyone wants a fancy, frilly laptop. A lot of people want a cheap laptop which can perform adequately. Why should you go out and buy a laptop with the fastest chip when all you're planning on doing is running a word processor, surfing the web, and playing mp3s? You don't NEED anything more, and this is Transmeta's strength-they can deliver to the low-end market. If Transmeta-based laptops started cracking the $1000 barrier, I'm willing to bet that a lot of people would start switching from desktops to laptops. I know I would.
Colin Winters
Last monday Transmeta announced the initial terms for its IPO, including an offering of 13 million common shares from $11-$13...
one thing i didn't realize about transmeta that's sort of interesting, is that the money they've made (although they've always posted losses) over the years, until Crusoe, has been from licensing fees...but from what??
(everyone deserves to do a bit of whorin' now n then, right?)
Sony makes outstanding laptops - I am glad to see them coming out with one with a Transmeta Crusoe processor. My PCG-Z505RX runs linux flawlessly, except for the blasted winmodem that it came with - overall though, it's an outstanding laptop.
Linus Torvalds uses the non-Transmeta version of this laptop, and of course he works for Transmeta.
:-)
I think the odds that this works with Linux are pretty substantial.
-
David Ditzel7 DavidDitzel.jpg
u x_manifesto/coverpropaganda.gif
http://news.cnet.com/Images/News/Pt/2000/05/051
Compare
http://www.bootnet.com/youaskedforit/lip_23_lin
forgot to also say, sony sells a quad battery for it, so think 4x longer if you can deal with some extra thickness hanging off the back.
don't be ridiculous. Sony has clearly tested it, they're about to launch it. While notebook makers do routinely exaggerate their performance, do you truly think that Sony is exaggerating more about this one? I don't see any reason why they would. You don't need independent benchmarks to evaluate this claim, nice as they would be for other purposes.
mmmm.... hot grits... oh yeah.
do I have to say, that's not a troll, it's a joke?
It won't keep me from getting an iBook and installing YellowDog on one partition, then keeping the other ready and waiting for OSX.
Sony has some nice looking stuff, but for the money their asking, I want something I can use. It's too fuckin small for my paws.
photosMy Photostream
The PowerBook G3 (Pismo) has a 50Wh battery.
The Tranmeta based PictureBook has a 20Wh battery.
PowerBook advertised battery life: 5 hours
PictureBook advertised battery life: 2.5 - 5.5 hours (previously 1.5 - 2 hours with a PII-400).
Now does the "Trasmeta hype" seem more justified? It's now obvious why the most PC laptop manfactures are ramping up production of Transmeta based laptops.
Also, to answer why people would buy that Vaio:
The Sony Vaio PictureBook at 2.2 pounds is like a motorcycle.
The PowerBook on the other hand weighs in at 6.1 pounds and is like a SUV.
Now asking why somebody would buy a motorcycle when they can buy a SUV sounds silly, doesn't it?
Sure, just move your entire desktop with you.
On the German page http://www.heise.de they already have a first benchmark result for the notebook. They say its performance lies between a 400 and a 600 MHz Pentium III, while the memory throughput is much better.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PCO M/PCG-C1VJ/hard.html
I don't agree with that sentiment. I think that, when the market for computers gets big enough, there should be different laptops for different uses and people.
I've got about 5 beefy desktop computers that I either own or control at work. I don't really need a "desktop in a small package".
Think about PDAs. A PalmPilot is, by any definition and computer, yet it is very limited in its functionality. But, that is precisely the thing that makes it so useful and popular.
There is a place for small specialized devices. Not everyone needs to do everything all of the time.
You're going to run distributed.net on battery power?
Probably you'll want to disable that sort of thing when you're not plugged in - I have a picture book and after a year, the battery is about useless - 10 minutes tops. Of course, the battery is pretty small, physically.
It's a trade-off.
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
Looks like either Slashdot or your web browser corrupted that post-many of the kanji have been replaced with question marks and other garbage.
...to the article: here.
Hey - owners of the Picturebook - I have a question! How good is the quality of the camera?
For instance, our teachers LOVE to give us lots and lots of papers, which I hate more than Pokemon itself. Would it be possible to take a picture of them and still be able to read them on the screen? Would it even be possible for OmniPage 10 to slurp them?
(Interesting note: the quad-capacity battery on the SuperSlims such as my 505TX is the same one as the PictureBook C1XS, and hopefully this unit... and did you see the battery times with the quad on the new unit? Up to 20 hours!)
The battery life on the previous PictureBooks, with any use, quickly dropped to under 2 hours. So, for it, this is a huge improvement. And this is why the Transmeta chip is so useful.
Of course, we'll have to see whether or not the claims pan out to reality.
--bdj
The very nature of the Crusoe, which is based upon code morphing, that is, dynamic code generation, makes it so that artificial benchmarks are completely meaningsless in this context. You simply can't benchmark one x86 instruction because how fast it runs (is simulated) depends on many other things such as in which context it was run and how many times it was run. If you want a useful benchmark, run an application you care about and time it. I conjecture that it'll be plenty fast for anything realistic.
buy a desktop....
Yes, it will have firewire according to the specs on the sony site and the CNET article about it.
;) the more the better.
... lots of people are arguing that powerbooks have great battery life etc, and they're right -- but they're much larger. I like the size of the picturebooks enough (I think) to deal with the keyboard. with something that size, I really could carry it everywhere. It's lighter than an SLR camera and zoom lens, it's lighter than most textbooks, it's lighter than even a very premature baby ...
I don't care much for the ultraproprietary memory stick nonsense, but firewire is cool!
And agreed re: the formfactor
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Hi, Besides this.It's all been done before. But just because this is an American company it's all hyped up :-(
If Sony had used ARM processors (like Acorn RISC OS users have done since 1987) then they should have low-power high performance machines (similar to crusoe) ages ago.
Hype hype hype. I hope Sony chokes in it.
It's true that powerbooks have great battery life, nice screens, well-designed port areas (for notebooks) and better keyboards than most laptops, but ...
;) ...
Size.
In a 2.2lb package, the picturebook is close to a singularity. It's not perfect, but for a bit less money than the G3/400, I would be split between them. It may sound silly and "grass is greener," but a large laptop has the disadvantage of needing a larger surface to work on and higher weight.
And I hope it costs a bit less in 6 or so months
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
the difference is the ARM box wouldn't have run the OS of choice for most of the customers for this product. The reason the crusoe is considered 'better' than an ARM processor(in overall terms for end user stuff) is because it appears an X86 chip to everything. Without all the technical stuff, to the end user it can be considered a low power X86 chip, and they can still run all their off the shelf software.
The Crusoe chip may not be using any new ideas but it does take things farther than anyone else has tried. the PowerPC was to be a risc chip that could emulate cisc. crusoe is a riscish chip that emulates the x86 instruction set.
Actually if i remember correctly, the crusoe is a VLIW core, source:DITZEL.PDF pg10, when the chip was first released. The Document may be here somewhere
How every version of MICROS~1 Windows(TM) comes to exist.
Do the following really mean anything? SCSA MCP CCSA CCNA
--I'm not actually after an answer!
Vert true, I have a Toshiba 2675dvd w/450PIII and even with the fan running it gets quite warm. I have noticed that it runs cooler running linux vs. win9x. Although if I adjust the power settings properly I can get 3 hours on battery, if I watch a dvd on battery it drops to about 2 hours. I would realy like to get a laptop the is close to the same performence, but that runs a LOT cooler and longer battery life.
A few hours grace before the madness begins again.
I'll like to give my 2 cents worth regarding the above.
:P
1.Price
Itz a Sony VAIO for crying out loud. They're not exactly cheap: Sony charges for the cool shiny magnesium casing, formfactor etc. heck. VAIO = cool, shiny but expensive laptop. Sony is the first out with a laptop/picturebook thingy: as other laptop manufacturers enter the market, the market forces will help lower prices. Not to mention the fact that simple, plain, cheap laptops will be available without having to pay for the VAIO coolness and chic.
2. Performance
Crusoe, imho from the German magazine or wotever thingy report, is supposedly between the speed of a 400mhz and 600 mhz Pentium III. The 600mhz version of it that is. THIS IS ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD. Considering that it emulates/dynamically translates the x86 ISA on the fly. Remember: this is one of the first few Crusoe chips: the relatively low number of transistors required on Crusoe chip designs allows them to scale clockspeed easily. I wouldn't be surprised to see higher clocked Crusoes in future that perform on par with the fastest Intel mobile Pentium III, while consuming significantly less power and cash.
3. Battery Life
The power consumption of a CPU is only one factor: the other 70-90% is due to harddisks, LCD screens, cd-rom, etc etc. One cannot expect amazing battery life improvements unless one builds a laptop that doesn't use any of these components. Most importantly, the size of the battery counts. We probably will be able get an accurate gauge of how Crusoe helps battery life improve when the first fullsized screens laptop come out from the other manufacturers.
Be kind. There are too many mean people out there already.
The lastest win32 client (haven't upgraded the linux one recently to check) has a config option to stop running when you're on battery power. I'd hope that the processor would save power when it was running on batteries and only had idle/low priority processes anyway though..
--
qube
hardware dvd decoders have existed for a long time now... I dont know about power usage, but I guess its less than a CPU cranking at full speed.
More on topic, the laptop in the article shouldnt even be considered a laptop, its wayyy too small. Some people really love small electronics, but I would rather have a 1 inch thick by 8 inches wide by around the length of a normal desktop keyboard. With a nice 15" screen and all. But if these things get cheaper I can see lots of people(including me) buying them as a replacement for PDAs...
Shit adds up at the bottom...
No, the sony VAIO Directwebsite says:
"Starts Selling September 25, 2000
Starts Shipping October 25, 2000"
Even the only picturebook was sold in the US, I played with one in the CompUSA in Honolulu.
All the companies boasting Crusoe-based prototypes are always scaled-down little itsy things, not real laptops for people demanding tasks.
This just takes the cake, however. At first I though the Thinkpads IBM was using were bad (lowest, cheapest model) but this is just sad.
When are the cool laptops coming out, with lots of niceties and less "efficiency" (in a laptop efficiency almost always means less features)
# debian/rules
If battery life really lives up to claims, then I think this could wind up filling the space between PDAs and desktop-replacement notebooks quite handily.
Only one question - white Mobile Linux?
-carl
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
No performance hit as opposed to what? What other processor are you comparing the Crusoe to. I seriously doubt it could compete with most mid-range laptops on the market today in terms of performance.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Hmmm, is Transmeta hiding something, or is it just their trademark secrecy in action?
-----
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I am really sick of reading these stories too, but remeber that our Lord and Savior, Linus is 'employed' by Transmeta!
Transmeta is a nice company that has lost billions of dollars in their 4 year history. They are going to put those evil, profitable chip companies like Intel and AMD out of business.
Transmeta is going to change everything. The Crusoe is soo amazing it will simulate p3's sparcs, powerpc, and a kitchen blender at the same time! It actually generates electricity and will probaly improve your sex life too. You can even build a beowulf cluster of S/390's in your basement, all thanks to Transmeta and the miracle Crusoe chip, aka mircoprocessor-o-matic.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
This comes out. Figgures. I was heading to the store to purchase a laptop, (SERIOUS) and this comes out. Hmm.. decisions, should I wait, or just get the Sony I orignally wanted?
I hate product announcements.
Executive ability is deciding quickly and getting someone else to do the work. --John G. Pollard
>Not to be a jackass, but is this sarcastic?
If I said that I would give my left nut for the slashdot crusier, would you ask the same question?
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
http://www.emperorlinux.com will have these later this month, and they'll be preconfigured for Linux. They already sell the non-Transmeta version of this notebook (Sony PictureBook w/ Pentium II). The camera does work under Linux, and I suspect the Transmeta chip will improve the battery life and performance quite a bit. If you want to get one of these soon, I can recommend these people (and no, I don't work for them, I just know them).
-John
Japanese subscripts on the kbyd is a definite plus. what style!
Give me something that I can sit in a cafe with for hours upon hours finishing up my programming assignments.
Hell yeah, impress those 31337 4514n chix0rs! :)
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Thad
The Bolachek Journals
You can get from 2.5 to 5 hours on that tine little thing. Wow. Amazing. My 1998 Wallstreet G3 gets 3 on one battery and has a 14 inch screen. My brother's pismo G3 ($2495) gets even more time on just one battery. And now that the G4 energy usage has been lowered to about the same as a G3 why would anyone buy that Vaio laptop? The only reason i see for it is to run Windows (not in this lifetime) since there are various linuxppc distros available already. You could even get an ibook and get like 5 to 6 hours out of the bettery and pay 800 less for it. This transmeta hype is silly.
Hi all.
As I said in the subject, Andreas Stiller from c't-Magazin has a TM5600-Vaio in test.
Check it out on heise news.
For all non-germans out there: Basically it says that the speed of the systems lies between a P-III 400 and a P-III 600. Memory transfer rates are quite good, approximately like a Coppermine 800 in an i815-Motherboard.
But: The Code Morphing Software of the Crusoe seems to generate a CPU-ID (that means: Not hardcoded into the Chip), which cannot be switched off at least in the VAIO. Nevertheless, the Athlon-compatible "real" CPUID-Command doesn't report a number.
These are only officially sold in Japan, but this web site imports them (expensive though!):
(this one has the DVD)
http://www.dynamism.com/loox/looxt.shtm l
http://www.dynamism.com/loox/looxs.shtm l
wrong. the same picturebook with the old chip has 1.5 hrs batterylife with the standard (tiny) battery pack... 5.5 hours is a huge improvement.
Sony is a member of the RIAA. Remember to practice wise consuming.
Phear my l33t homepage.
The Linux option's useful if you're using software that you've the source to. Most of the applications out there for Linux are Intel only
How so......most Linux apps are open source, and if you can't find any precompiled binaries for your distro, you can always download source and compile.
The big reason for me to go with this as opposed to a 'normal' subnote would be the widescreen formfactor which is perfect for inflight DVD viewing.
However, to date, I have yet to find a firewire DVDROM that I could use for this. I assume also that the system's CPU is fast enough for anamorphic DVD playback in software.
Any clues?
Your Working Boy,
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
You can get most Japan market laptops imported from Japan Palmtops Direct and Dynamism. They'll prolly have this model now or within a week or so. The only issues are that the Japan imports cost a lot and have Japanese subscripts on the keyboard.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Hey, my laptop has that. It's called turning OFF the laptop. You see, when I'm not using the processor, i just shut it down. Hence, the battery is not used! My car gets better gas mileage when I don't let it idle in the praking lot all day when not in use!
Aha, longer battery life when you don't use the processor...
One of the major issues that I have with the new Sub-NoteBooks containing the Transmeta is the price. Back at this time last year we were told that the Cursoe was not only a less battery intensive solution but a more cost effective one as well. Are all of their claims that they made last year not stacking up now that the actual devices are hitting the market. I was so excited and now I just feel let down. I can buy a Pentium 600 for cheaper and with only an expected 10-20 percent gain in the longevity of the battery it becomes almost a moot point. Give me a WebPad with a Crusoe, that I would love. However, this just seems like another rehash with a different name. Give me some benchmarks on actual marketed systems not lab tests.
Bingeldac denies any responsibility for the
spelling and/or grammatical errors above.
Actually the crusoe is supposed to slow down the processor for short derations stuff as well. ie. when you are typing something in and pause for 10 seconds to read from the page. I seriously doubt that you turn your laptop off for such things.
The Crusoe chip may not be using any new ideas but it does take things farther than anyone else has tried.
the PowerPC was to be a risc chip that could emulate cisc. crusoe is a riscish chip that emulates the x86 instruction set.
the Intel Speed step slows the processor down when on batteries. The crusoe slows the processor down when not in use.
Run MacOS 8/9/X or run Linux.
The Linux option's useful if you're using software that you've the source to. Most of the applications out there for Linux are Intel only and the only games other than Civilization:CTP is the open source ones (Because of a distinct lack of support for the 3D accelerator on the laptops. While I'm working to fix that, it's going to be a while yet before I get it working and Loki and others makes versions for sale for PPC.)
The MacOS option's useful if you like being in the same boat as the Windows people with a cooler looking OS with more limited options for software.
Why would anyone buy a Crusoe- to run Windows or Linux on it. While I agree with your appraisal of the Windows option, the Linux option holds merit as everything worth having on Linux is available for x86- and Crusoe runs x86 applications surprisingly enough.
I want it NOW- not later.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
All I can see at Sony's site under VAIO C1 PictureBook Computer, PCG-C1VN is the following. The picture makes it look just like the other Sony Picturebook. The half-height (480 pixel) screen display is innovative but I don't know if I can get used to it. The battery life (5.5 hours) seems less than what was first claimed--maybe for the other Crusoe chip. Does it have a headphone jack? Is the USB port the only way to dock it?
Michael
...another comment from Michael Tandy.
"Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
to see this chip in a PDA using with a flashable memory card allowing the user to determain what OS they felt so deemed to use.
// what do you mean that was the only copy...