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Legal On-line Gambling In Nevada
TwP writes: "In the U.S. it is illegal to operate an online casino or sports betting page due to interstate restrictions on gambling. It seems that a company called Virtgame.com has been able to prove to the Nevada gaming commission that its software would prevent any bets from being placed beyond state boundaries. Read the full scoop here on CNet. How soon before someone cracks their proprietary dial-up connection?" Without commenting on the morality of gambling laws, it's interesting to note that many states consider betting so immoral that they not only prohibit private gambling organizations, but thoughtfully provide their own. How soon 'til Pick-4 is available from your local ".gov" domain?
Then you need merely have a machine in the state with a modem and net access . . . The casino dials back the modem, which then runs a live relay by telnet or web . . .
hawk, a Nevada attorney (among other things)
Without much thought, this "solution" came to mind. I have no reason/desire to use it, so don't sue me if it works.
1) Get a cell phone (with a PO box for an address) in Nevada.
2) Use the "call forward" function of the cell service to bounce incoming calls to the gaming dial-up number.
3) Bet all of your hard earned money away on <insert silly betting subject here>
Again, not sure if this would work, but if you really have that big of a gambling problem, I'm sure it will/could happen.
But, of course, gambling and is Really Really Evil(TM), and the Internet is Really Really New and Scary (TM), so combining the two must be Armageddon in a lunch box.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
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Americans are bred for stupidity.
Royal Canadian Air Farce
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Americans are bred for stupidity.
Without commenting on the morality of gambling laws, it's
interesting to note that many states consider betting so immoral that they not only
prohibit private gambling organizations, but thoughtfully provide their own.
With Lotto, the profits go to supporting education and social programs in the government. Casinos in Las Vegas, CT, NJ, etc. go to the benefit of the casino owner.
In order to complete a callback call, the person would have to get offline, thereby removing himself from "gambling mode" and entering "not gambling-profit generating mode"
But as it is, they have to dial-up using a special connection with the floppy provided (at least as I understood the story). So it's not like you can spontaniously decide to start gambling while you're connected to AOL, you still have to disconnect. And a callback doesn't require the special software in the first place.
As complicated as callback might be to explain to folks, I can't imagine the technical problems they'll have with users having multiple dial-up accounts (especially with software changing the one that dials by default -- imagine kids not being able to get to AOL because daddy's computer only calls the gambling site when they double-click Internet explorer!)...
I'm an investigator. I followed a trail there.
Q.Tell me what the trail was.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
It seems to me that an obvious way to verify that bets are made by the proper person at a proper residence would be to have a call-back system rather than a complicated closed application.
I mean, call-back has been used for years to make sure only authorized folks get remote access, even if you know passwords, etc. Then you'd have to be able to screw with the phone system to be able to "spoof" someone else so that the call went to you instead of them, which presumably is a very illegal thing to do.
The advantage of that could be that it would be easier to sign-up for the service, too -- while you'd have to prove age, the "proof of residence" would be unneccisary because the phone company would be doing that for you, and you wouldn't have to get one of their special floppy disks...
I'm an investigator. I followed a trail there.
Q.Tell me what the trail was.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
Except that with insurace, you are betting that something bad is going to happen.
You bet that you're going to die, or you bet that your house is going to burn down.
Imagine going to Vegas and betting $100 that you are going to get hit by a truck when you walk out the door. Something about insurace has always seemed weird to me... betting on an outcome that you don't desire? hmmm...
Reality has a liberal bias
I used to work part time at 7-11 a few years back and the store I worked in was right in front of a very poor neighborhood. The same people would come in every day and buy "scratchers" over and over trying to win a $5,000 prize. These same people were also on food stamps. The really disgusting and disturbing thing is that they would spend their food stamps there at the 7-11 on things like soda, doughnuts, and potato chips. I'd think that if I were poor and on food stamps, the last place I'd spend any money of any kind would be at a 7-11 where the prices are higher than in any grocery store. I'd also not waste my money on junk food and lottery tickets.
The "liberals" in our country will try to tell you that these people are poor because mythical republicans someplace conspired against them. I'm sorry, but people that dumb don't need any help to be poor. It wasn't due to racial discrimination either. Nearly everyone in that neighborhood was white. I don't wholly subscribe to the idea of social darwinism, but based off the things I've seen myself I must say that the theory isn't wholly unfounded. The lottery truly is a stupidity tax. Of course if this fact were to ever be widely known you'd have people screaming about how the lottery is designed to keep poor people poor by enticing them to spend their hard earned welfare dollars.
Lee Reynolds
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Actually many states have lotteries, not just Nevada. Also lotteries aren't really like pyramid schemes in that everything is on the table. The odds of winning are published and everyone knows they aren't very likely to win. With pyramid schemes, nothing is on the table other than some vague promises of vast wealth in 3 week. Lotteries are a tax on those who aren't too bright, pyramid schemes are a tax on those who are truly moronic.
Lee Reynolds
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
So what you're saying is that there is a tax in
Finland which is disguised as gambling? I'm sorry but I just don't feel bad about the Finnish government losing money because their people have more choices about where they waste their dollars.
Lee Reynolds
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
A few years ago I saw a tv show about winners of the New York Lottery. The shows producers could only find two winners that weren't broke. Most of the past winners were bankrupt.
Yes, most state lotteries "go toward education". However, the trend seems to be that an equal amount of budget money then goes somewhere else besides education. After all, the lottery already takes care of it, right?
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No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
> Isn't insurance a form of gambling?
Yes, both are ponzi schemes.
If you can't manage your money better, hey, that's your problem.
Common sense would suggest that encouraging the rich to gamble while discouraging the poor from throwing away what little money they have might achieve a more equitable assessment of revenue-raising among the people.
Common sense would suggest that rich people have gotten that way in part from saving their money and investing wisely, even though they may have started out poor. Likewise, poor people have gotten that way in part from poor money management, even though they may have started out rich. Why we would want to discourage frugality by encouraging gambling among people of any income level is beyond me.
Anyway, the government squanders and wastes almost all of the outrageous amounts it takes from us already. It doesn't need or deserve any more revenue.
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But that's not the point. Why prevent adults from spending their money the way THEY see fit? Why is gambling illegal?
In general, adults should not be permitted to make their own personal decisions. All choices should be made by the smarter and more capable ruling political class - NEVER by individuals. The ruling class should dictate which schools your children will go to, what they will learn, what features may be integrated in computer operating systems, what types of entertainment and information you may access, and so on - all the way down to the exact capacity of your toilet bowl.
Think of what kind of fucked up world it would be if everyone was free to make their own personal decisions in social and economic matters. It would be utter chaos! People everywhere would be running naked in the streets with carrots hanging out of their ears.
For God's sake, man - can't you think of the children?!
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State lotteries do focus on the working poor who really can't afford to play but do anyways and gambling is completely legal for non-profits like church bingo. On-line bingo is sure on its way.
State lotteries only have to gain with online sales, consider how many more upwardly mobile people they could get if all it took was one click and an automated pay-system. You could set up a condition like, if prize is greater than 20million buy 20 tickets and email everyone in my "lottery group." The twenty dollars is paid through a debit card and someone else has 1 in 50 million odds of winning that money.
Online gov't lotteries is a great idea! Tax people from half way around the world. I wonder what the first state will be to get a piece of that. Like my friend always said, Lotteries are for people who are bad at math... -Moondog
That's not quite true.
The first part is fair enough - 4160 tickets, each with a 1 in 76,275,360 chance of winning means that there is a 4,160 in 76,275,360 chance of winning (or 1:18,335, approx).
However, if you have a 1 in 709,260 chance of being hit by lighning ONCE, you can't simply double the second number to get the chance of being hit by lightning TWICE.
Instead, you have to square the second number. This reflects that fact that even AFTER you've been hit by lightning, you then have a 1 in 709,260 chance of being hit AGAIN.
As a result, the probability of being hit by lightning twice is a staggeringly low 1:503,049,747,600. Hence you've got a much better chance of winning the lottery once in 80 years than being struck by lightning twice.
In fact, the probability of being hit by lightning twice is probably even lower - how many people die after being hit the first time?
-Shane Stephens
Goddamn Government can't even run gambling well. Maybe they should turn that division over to the mafia, whose payouts are much better (And tax free!)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
How soon 'til Pick-4 is available from your local ".gov" domain?
Studies often show that people with easy access to computers/technology as being at the top of the social ladder (in that they come from higher income familes, have backgrounds involving more education, etc).
On the flip side, other studies often show people who play the lottery as being at the bottom of the social ladder (lower incoming familes). Many people call the State Lotteries a "stupid tax", in that poorer familes often waste their precious few remaining dollars on lottery tickets in hopes of climbing out of their situation.
Thus, with the "rich" being on computer/The Internet but not playing the lottery, and the "poor" playing the lottery but without access to the Net, it makes you wonder whether online State Lotteries would make sense.
Won't stop them from doing it, though.
Of course, what they try to avoid telling you is that the lottery has the worst payoff ratio (usually less than one dollar in three paid into the system gets paid back in prizes) of any form of gambling, legal or illegal. I know someone's .sig around here says "the lottery is a tax on those who are bad at math," and truer words have never been spoken.
The Libertarian in me likes the fact that it's a volutary tax, however. :)
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
There was an episode of the Simpsons, where Ned Flanders' house got blown away in a storm. He didn't carry any insurance because he considered it a form of gambling. It was funny on the Simpsons; it's ludicrous here.
Insurance companies do their best to make sure that you don't recieve a "windfall". Generally, you submit the bill to repair the damage to the insurance company, and they pay that. Insurance doesn't get you ahead, it just prevents you from falling ridiculously far behind.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
If you're already in Nevada, why do it online? Might as well go to Las Vegas and get the free buffet...
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I wonder how they set up the service to recognize whether or not a person is from Nevada. What if you changed what your computer outputted to make it seem as though you were from Nevada, and just had money deposited into an account in Nevada, and get a PO Box? Would this be possible?
And the lottery isn't even a decent investment... it's simply a tax on people who are bad at math. ;-)
Alright, you've got a smiley face there, but I'd just like to point out to the masses that this oft-repeated bit of wisdom isn't quite as clever as it seems at first. (Begin micro-rant) The average person who plays the lottery week to week isn't making an investment, they're getting $1 worth of entertainment. So unless you call video games, dial-a-porn, and trashy novels a tax on people who are bad at math, you're overstating the truth.
On the other hand, if you do consider the lottery an investment, and spend a significant amount of money on it, you get what you deserve.
The .gov TLD is reserved for the US Federal Government. State and local
governments are supposed to use the .us heirachy.
Um...
And I didn't even try that hard, and I'm five for five .gov. Rules were made to be broken, I guess.
Both the Las Vegas and Reno airports have gaming in the food court areas, the terminal gate areas, and selected other places. In fairness, though, I must state that the machine are supervised by change clerks and by airport law enforcement. The age limits are enforced--I've seen it happen in the Southwest gate areas.
You missed the fact that we also have slots in the grocery stores, and virtually every bar in town has at least four of the video-poker machines.
When you get outside of Washoe and Clark county the guys have other ways they can spend money as well. Most notably in the State's Capitol. But this isn't about the Bunny Ranch FUFme server, this is about The Lucky Nugget Of The Web.
(It's amazing to me how many people forget that Reno and Lake Tahoe are both large gaming areas. The Eudomatic Pie described the escapades of some practical physics experimenters who built computers into shoes and bras--and the process was first tried in the field here at Lake Tahoe.)
The first thing that popped in my mind was that some enterprising young Nevadan would "black-box" analyze the protocols, and put up a proxy server so that out-of-staters could bet through the proxy. That would beat any tracking scheme using ANI or caller ID, because the call would be made from the local in-Nevada exchange. Because the Nevada resident (with Nevada driver's license, mail address, and other identifying marks) would be signing up for the service, there is no way that the operator would be able to determine whether a given transaction was done by a Nevadan.
What proxy software, you ask? How about PCAnywhere, Timbuckto, Carbon Copy? And if that proprietary software just happens to run under Linux, there could even be a Web-based interface.
But don't look at this Nevadan to do the job. I wouldn't be surprised if the EULA states specifically that any such proxy use of their software was strictly verboten; indeed, that the proxy of their software would be illegal under Nevada Revised Statutes. Nope, not me. I like living here, and don't want any reason for the State Gaming Board to even look my way. I have enough problems with the Tahoe Regional Planning Authority (TRPA)...
Hmm.. interesting how so many online gambling sites exist that not only serve but seem to attract US patrons..
And also, has anyone noticed that this is Nevada they're talking about here? Isn't this the state where the primary airport has unsupervised slot machines at every terminal??
The average citizen is quite ignorant about most scientific issues, and a single charismatic scientist can be highly influential in persuading people to pursue wrongheaded ideas. For example, Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, has been arguably the most influential person in spreading the idea that the earth is "overpopulated." In the early 1970's he predicted many dire consequences as result of population growth. Among other things, he predict that ten's of millions of children would starve in countries like India.
Ehrlich supported rather drastic measures to prevent the catastrophe he believed to be inevitable--including such things as the forced sterilization of all Indian men with three or more children, and adding contraceptives to food and water supplies.
Julian Simon, an economist at the University of Maryland, challenged Ehrlich's theories. He argued that humans were the "ultimate resource" and that the results of human ingenuity--better fertilizers, new crop varieties, more efficient farming techniques--would allow humans to keep pace with expected population growth.
One of Ehrlich's predictions was that the price of limited resources, such as elemental metals, would rise as more humans competed for the same resources.
Simon offered Ehrlich a wager centered on the market price of metals. "...Ehrlich would pick a quantity of any five metals he liked worth $1,000 in 1980. If the 1990 value of the metals, after adjusting for inflation, was more than $1,000 (i.e. the metals became more scarce), Ehrlich would win. If, however, the value of the metals after inflation was less than $1,000 (i.e. the metals became less scare), Simon would win. The loser would mail the winner a check for the change in price.
Ehrlich agreed to the bet and chose copper, chrome, nickel, tin and tungsten.
By 1990, all five metal were below their real price level in 1970. Ehrlich lost the bet and sent Simon a check for $576.07. Prices of the metals chosen fell so much that Simon would have won the bet even if the prices hadn't been adjusted for inflation..." (see Brian Carnell's overpopulation.com for more details about the wager.)
Robin Hanson took the idea of wagering about scientific questions a step further, proposing to create an idea futures market. "...Imagine a betting pool on disputed science questions, where the current odds are treated as the current intellectual consensus. For example, people might bet on whether cold fusion will be used to produce power by the year 2020. Right now the odds would be fairly low - say 20-to-1 against. But as the results of new research became known, and if more people became convinced that cold fusion worked, the odds would rise. And if cold fusion became a reality by 2020, those early supporters would make a bundle.
Such betting markets would become "idea futures" markets - like corn futures markets, except you'd bet on the future settlement of a scientific controversy instead of the future price of corn. The system could increase the public's interest and role in science, and betting odds could serve as a scientific barometer to guide mass media and public policy...."(Idea Futures: How making wagers on the future can make it happen faster by Robin Hanson. WIRED, Sept. 1995, Idees Fortes section, p.125 )
State gambling laws unfortunately prohibit the formation of such markets. As a result, a potentially very valuable mechanism for eliminating dangerously unfounded ideas is thwarted.
For once, the general populace's (including the judiciary system) blanket ignorace of technical issues works in FAVOR of an online entity.
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next step....legal online prostitution
yeah baby!
(wait, no, i forgot- that falls under free speech, kinda sorta)
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Why all you young whipper-snappers. I ain't never tried any of this "on-line" Gamblin". Fishin' tournaments ain't good bettin'.
So what ya do is go down to the races, and bet on the horse that does his business right before the race starts.
Most people get online via a dialup phone connection. Most people have only one phone line. In order to complete a callback call, the person would have to get offline, thereby removing himself from "gambling mode" and entering "not gambling-profit generating mode". The gambling industry would have a fit.
-- Anne Marie
Lotteries don't tax people who are bad at math. Most people who play know the numbers aren't in their favor, but they play it anyway because they feel it's the only way they can escape their penury. It's a tax on hope, the chiefest of American ideals, and it shows how far our nation has fallen from its bygone years of visions of the "city on the hill". But we don't mind, of course, because it lowers our property taxes (since lotteries and property taxes are both chiefly aimed at paying for education), and we hate the poor. It's not that we hate them for being poor; it's that we treat their penury like a contagion that must be kept out of our sheltered white-bread gated-neighborhood lives at all cost, even lotto costs. By giving them the lotto to play, they will voluntarily keep to keno shops and convenience stores and stay the heck away. The Caesars gave the plebians their bread and circus, just as we have (except we go even further and coopt "Bread and Circus" as the trademarked name of a line of health/specialty food stores where we can buy our $5 bottles of organic mango juice and continue to let the poor go hungry.
-- Anne Marie