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Lawson Of Japan To Install 15,000 Linux Terminals
debreuil writes: "A Reuters article reports a leading Japanese convenience store chain will install more than 15,000 IBM computers running Linux to allow for Web access in stores, in the largest commercial use of Linux to date. Great onigiri there too..." IBM, who sold the machines, is happy as can be, of course.
This 2.4-fold increase would give Linux a 7.8 percent share of the overall server operating system market in 2000, compared to a 4.0 percent share the previous year, IDC Japan said.
;-)
2.4, eh? Coincidence? I think not
what Linux distribution they would be using?
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
And the fact these boxes use Linux, for cost, stability, customisabilty, or for 'coolness' (all for all of the above) is just sweet. One question comes to mind - is IBM in bed with a Linux distro, have IBM make thw 'distro' up themselves, or are IBM in this for hardware only? With Japan being the homeland of TurboLinux they'd seem obvious, but then don't IBM and Red Hat have something between them?
All well, it's just one more place when Linux is going mainstream....
IBM, who sold the machines, is happy as can be, of course.
This is awful!!! A company that's happy because they made a major sale!!! Arrgghh, evil corporations. Oh wait, they run Linux. Oops, good boy.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
I think companies can expect major saving from using Linux on their terminals.. Think about it: 15,000 X $50 for a MLA for Windows = $750,000 in savings just by running Linux.
One question I have is about tech support. Does it cost more/less to maintain Linux on a desktop in a corportation than Windows? Then I think of the following:
- few, if no, virus problems
- no e-mail scripting problems
- disk quota support, vs. Win9X and Me
- Security.. User cannot do just what he wants
I figure with the right people and the right installation, these companies can save major bucks bu running Linux!
where looks a bit better.... sorry about that, and any other mistakes of mine....
Your post somehow smells a bit trolly, but this could be my paranoid self, of course...
If you want to do an interview, how about posting a story with your questions, and allow people to answer it? You can always go into the up, close and personal later on.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
What on earth is onigiri?
Genetically modified origami?
Nick...
The appliances are Windows. The servers are Linux. From zdnet: "IBM (NYSE: IBM) said the deal calls for nearly every one of Lawson's 7,600 stores to install two Linux servers, which will feed Windows-based "Loppi" self-service multimedia terminals. "
that the gaining popularity of Linux, the resurgence of Apple and its impending roll-out of BSD/Mach based OS X, are causing a significant amount of upset in the operating system market. So what? Well, as a comp-sci degree holder, I know that there are a heck of a lot of "Really Good Ideas" out there that have to do with operating systems. Linux, the BSD's, and a bunch of research os's are all playing with these things. That makes me hopeful that at some point fairly soon, perhaps in a couple of years, there will be enough fragmentation of the OS markets that it will be possible for a really new, really good OS paradigm to sneak up and win. Now, I don't mean that Linux is bad or any other imagined slight. Linux is pretty darn good, but it doesn't really operate on a new technological paradigm. Most of its popularity is based on its unique development paradigm (Free/Open Source/Community software). As it transitions to popularity based on familiarity and demonstrated capability, it will become more difficult to change. I have to say that I don't really know much about OS theory - so I might be full of it, but these are just random musings so... TIWAGOS (Take It With A Grain Of Salt).
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
This is going to be very good for Japanese IT workers. 15000 new computers means a _lot_ of new jobs for people, to maintain them. Especially good for those who have had Linux exposure =)
Banu
If this isn't a troll, though, I would certainly be interested...
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
It's an interesting concept or the most subtle troll I've seen in many years. Either way I like it.
Just what do you plan to do with this research?
Would this just be helping some government organization find new and interesting ways to restrict my online activities?
Are you planning on compiling this research into a book and selling it back to the online community?
Waassat? What's onigiri? Is it related to unagi?
Roberto
IBM rep: "Our Machines include free software which you can change to meet your needs. There is also a ton of free sofware at freshmeat.net. If you need support there are many companies that will provide it for a small fee or you can hire a kid from college to be your sysop."
Will the last company to abandon Linux please turn off the lights??!
Dear 'professor', put it this way: why should I believe that you're a professor and not a spammer? :)
...it may also be a good topic for sociology.. in the Digital Era, trust went back to the old days. For example, post your intentions on the website of your university, and so on.
And don't use @yahoo.com, it's not so reliable
have fun
k
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
According to that article the server market for this year in Japan is expected to be:
That leaves only 13% for all of Unix and Novell combined. Surely that can't be right.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
IBM, who sold the machines, is happy as can be, of course.
IBM is happy because they are getting paid in Lawson's chip dip.
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Good point regarding the @yahoo.com email address.
i am in awe of your l33t trolling sk1llz...i now know the joys of first post and this has truly been a mind changing experience...please email me at CmdrChimichanga@slashdot.org to discuss possible employment opportunities
Is that anything like the "sound of distant thunder"?
--
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Well that works on the basis that people doing the scripting on the linux boxen understand the basics such as enabling taint mode in Perl when coding and the massive potential for allowing security holes in the code.
In context scripting security under Linux is a doddle to nail down compared to the nightmare of Microsoft spawned Active X controls and ASP scripts, but there is still a risk, its justt an order of magnitude lower
My point is most scripting languages have the facility to be insecure under Linux mainly due to people forgetting the golden rule:-
Never trust any data incoming from the user
E-Mail scripting problems are unlikely under Linux only if you code defensively preventing access to the shell, and disallowing users the facility to open a pipe to another process and generally only allowing them to input a predefined list of characters.
If any U.S. COmpanies will follow their example, a linux Cyber Caffe would be intresting
If we refuse to be flexible, we are in effect opting out of the game of life. The world moves on without us.
The Linux operating system, which is freely available to programmers
Gee, where does the GPL state that? I'm not a programmer, do I have to pay for my use? Oh well.
quotes:on my Windows 2000 machine everything *just works* - it's totally intuitive, and I don't have to think abotut what I'm doing).
Unix *doesn't work* on the desktop.
Example: I installed IIS.
first: If you don't think about what you're doing, you will never be a good admin.
second: You are talking about linux not working for the desktop and then you are talking about installing IIS. HUH! IIS is a server application, not a desktop one.
Good news indeed!
I'd be interested in the feedback they will give after they are up and running.
So pleaze Hemos come back with info after some time, don't let it die...
Thanks in advance.
Just another coder...
Yeah, that's right, for programmers only! All the rest of you, that'll be $100 per copy. And don't think you can get away with just buying one and copying it for all of your friends, the GPL only applies to programmers, dammit!
Seriously, that's really bizarre. Did the author simply misspeak, or did he honestly believe that only programmers could obtain free copies of Linux? Either way, when you think about it, that's really a pretty egregeous error, and will probably help support in many people's minds the myth that only prgrammers can use Linux (not that they won't get the most out of it, but others can use it too :)
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
I can already hear people screaming "but who is going to support it?" Well in a large company that would be the IS department. and Rolling out linux this big will require major changes in IS.
Hiring of competent IS people.. which equates to better pay.. You cant just hire a MCSE flunkie and hope for the best. (Although Linux certification isn't much better. Asking questions about applications like squid that are not in any base linux install. but g;lossing over important things like ifconfig, route, X configuration,etc...)
So rolling out Linux in a corperation or enterprise is easy, it just takes a CIO with guts, and a IS department that has 1/2 a brain.
Both of wich are rare and difficult to find nowdays.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
and you sir are a prime example of why MCSE certification is seen as worthless.. You can install IIS and SQL server with a few clicks.. and A hacker can own your box minutes after you do it. Because you dont spend 60 minutes using the 500 arcane commands securing it. (download service packs, install them, edit the registry to fix a hole here, or turn on a feature that they locked out in the GUI.)
Dont even try to tell me that Win anything is easier than the current linux distros. How about Microsloths NET command? that's a convoluted mess.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Now here's a troll if I ever saw one, but nevertheless, I'll bite...
OK Timmy, you admit that you've only installed Linux once, and it was a long time ago. This qualifies you as a Linux Guru(TM)? Methinks you were just too lazy to take a couple of minutes to learn a new and different technology (as opposed to letting Brother Bill lead you along by the nose).
HO! HO! HO! Now you've got me rolling on the floor!! You, my dear, are so utterly clueless it makes me scream. Single machine OS? Have you ever actually used any UNIX variants? Have you, perhaps, heard of NFS? Novell? Do you know how to run an X display? Perhaps you have never had to do a telnet or remote login?Ah... Enough for one post. My one suggestion to you is to get out of your little MS box and try going somewhere new today...
--
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Don't get me wrong.
.docs. (The problem is that half the software you get with Linux is pre-alpha (critical parts of the system run version 0.01 software!), and most of that never gets finished because the open source developers don't have any reason to finish, as Microsoft developers do. There seemed to be a whole lot of unfinished software with ideas never finished (e.g., one program had an svg export option, but it was completely useless losing most of the formatting).
Linux is great for nerds - nerdy people love to create scripts that do
for i in thingy do grep z|ss|xargs|find -ss -z -* -t "hh" less
to achieve the same thing they'd do on Windows with a GUI.
The arcaneness is the appeal.
But for anyone else....
And another thing:
stability:
It is a myth that Windows is less stable.
Maybe Windows + GUI + IIS +++ is less stable than
Linux Kernel + Apache
but that's just because the Linux way only has a few hundred lines of code and there's nothing to go wrong.
But comparing GUI to GUI, Windows pisses all over Linux.
To give an example of my own Linux experiences, my *text editor* crashed. I mean goddamn it the text editor.
And when I tried to configure it by right clicking, the links didn't work. When I went into the Control Center instead, that crashed when I clicked on the wrong thing. Microsoft, by comparison, get accused of producing unstable product when one program crashes under heavy load (and the irony is, it isn't use Microsoft software - it's probably Netscape!). You would no way getting the control panel in Windows crashing because you clicked on the wrong thing.
And when I tried to use the office software (something called Abiword), it said when I tried to do a list 'sorry this hasn't been written yet. Please edit xxxx.cpp'. And the spreadsheet, it let me create a graph (that didn't look as good as Excel, but they forgot to finish it, so when I went to edit it with the 'Graph Wizard' the whole program crashed.
And all the import and export filters were fucked - creating unusable HTML and worthless
And not to mention the fact every program had a different UI. For example, when I wanted to view a movie I had to use this damn ugly and inconsistent with every other program piece of software, which seemed to have its UI built from scratch, meaning it was completely different from every other app on the system.
Not to mention the fact that the whole thing looked like shit because of the damn ugly fonts. Not much good for AOL is it?
Neither, of course, would you get the whole X server crashing out the command prompt, as I got with Linux.
Basically *all* Linux has is a goofy command line, which by definition will only ever impress nerds and hackers.
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
OK, we may finally come to the end of linux 'zealotism' where people desperately bash MS at every opportunity. Go look at zdnet postings and you will se a flock of newly emerging windows zealots who make the linux zealots look like fair weather fans.
The point is, never say this about MS products. The MS admin base is growing more vocally upset with linux and has begun large scale bashing. Let this happen. Adopt a come and see attitude towards linux, be evangelical like a buddhist, that is, only answer questions for as long as interest is shown. Underhype the OS, and people will arrive at their own conclusions, which will be correct. (notice I dont say what those conclusions are)
People are not THAT dumb. They usually turn against zealot-like rage. Compute with a smile on your linux or BSD box, and people will come and see. Those people will install linux or BSD if and when it and they are ready for each other, and not before.
Notice in this post, the poster explains how easy win2k is. The new win2k user who has difficulties will turn to disbelief quickly. If you say linux is hard to install, the user may or may not be pleasantly surprised. If you say linux has far less software than windows, the user may or may not be pleasantly surprised. If you say linux is not necessarily the most stable or fast thing around, the user may be pleasantly surprised. The user will not, however, be disillusioned.
I ran NT4 until it ate my FAT. I switched to linux expecting it to eat ext2. It never did. I still use linux.
I really have nothing thrilling or insightful to add, except this comes on the heals of Bill's letter bitchslapping all of open source and the people pitching it.
I have alway said "Use Linux if it makes sense to you, if not use a Mac or Windows, or what ever makes you productive."
Here is a company which has done just that. They are using what make sense for them, and it's Linux. That is gratifiying. I have had a small role in Linux's past (very small), but I was using it to run my company in 1994 (an ISP). I am really glad to see it working for others.
People of open source love to party. One more Linux adoption is as good as reason as any. We are not pressured and thus enjoy a good time. Bill did not see this in his letter, scolding us for celebrating our 5 percent. I say celebrate!
I've read about Bill's past, as a single dimentsional person skilled in manipulation and a coding session or two. So, not partying for Bill, even when he is on top. What a loser.
Have fun, party. Use Linux or don't. Don't be sore if all of the people happy to use Linux, debug it, code it, or just cheering for it, party the night away. We might just have the secret of how to live a good life, something Bill does not have.
+15,000 more Linux boxes out there. Is that more or less than TiVO? I don't know, but still I'll drink a beer or many more at the bar, rasing each glass to a Pengiun named Tux, a kid name Linus, and to the rest of us "Long live us! Long live the good times!"
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
I don't think it is fair to moderate my post down.
It's a pretty cowardly thing to do - rather than trying to rebutt my legitimate criticisms of Linux, you just mark them down.
But the fact is, they are totally accurate. Using Linux as a *desktop* machine (and I don't mean a nerd's desktop) for *ordinary people* to use doesn't make any sense.
Perhaps if you can show my criticism are unfounded, *then* these moderations might be justified (but even then I don't think so, since Slashdot is about debate - you don't get moderated down for being wrong (rather, it seems, for disagreeing with the cozy opinions of those stuck in the Linux ghetto and wetting themselves every time someone installs a Linux machine)).
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
Although I personally prefer Windows (don't ask why...), Can you imaging the money they're saving by using a FREE OS?
I was also kind of freaked out by the name of the company...
Lawson "aardWolf" Culver
No one was ever shamed into suicide by buying IBM.
I take it that you don't know what the I stands for then?
J-aims
--
Yo, whatever happened to peas? Join T( H)GS
I *like* linux, in a lot of ways. I like the fact that it has a goofy command line, because I spend the most productive time on computers writing programs, viz. computer simulations and stuff to do with my course (physics, NOT computer science). But if I'm not doing this, and am just 'playing', I wouldn't necessarily use linux.
If I wanted to play Quake for example, I'd want a beefy pentium machine with massive accelerator cards and stuff and all the floating point in the world. Likewise if I wanted to browse the web, or do graphics I'd want to use Windows.
My own platform is RISC OS (yes, you've never heard of it). The processor is out of date, it has no floating point etc. etc. so it is slow as hell when you ask it to do something like Quake or turn WAV data into an MP3 (about an hour per minute of CD track). But the GUI running on top of this is innovative, simple, good-looking and is what I am used to. It's old, but the WP is the best I have ever seen in terms of type-setting equations etc. - like LaTeX in a GUI.
Linux has it's advantages, Windows has it's advantages, and so does RISC OS. I'd never use LaTeX, it's too faffy, just use my old crappy machine, type it all up in next to no time, save as PostScript and go print it on a PC in the college computer centre.
And as for stability, well; I've installed Linux, and it works fine. But it's a very basic installation - I don't even have X on it, because that's not what I want it for! If I wanted to get X working, I'm sure that it wouldn't be all that easy, even with debian...
Windows isn't that stable either - if you install it badly. They (the people responsible for this in college, absolute muppets) recently changed all the computers over to Windows 2000 from NT. Only, they've buggered it quite badly and nothing works all that well except for the essentials like IE and Putty (an ssh client, which is handy). Still, I don't need it for much else.
IMHO, Linux will never be a market leader, because people basically want point-and-click everything, with as little typing as possible. Linux doesn't fit with this idea. Don't go on to me about how good the GUI is, if you don't type, you're not using it to it's full potential.
My two pence worth (about 2 quid, looking back at it...:-)
If I were to choose between IBM and another company for anything, I wouldn't choose IBM. Not even their StinkPads meet my needs.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Japanese people _want_ to use the internet; they just don't feel like paying the phone company's local connect charges just to check their email.
Especially in larger cities, the convenience store is a one-stop-for-everything mecca. I have friends who stop at one each morning to pick up a breakfast roll, and on the way home each night to get their dinner. Now, people can add check the email to their list of things to do while waiting for their rice to warm up in the microwave.
OK. Your post was a step or two above the typical "Lenux Sux" post in that it showed a little effort (I'm assuming you didn't just cut-n-paste text out of some MS PR glossy), and I wouldn't have moderated it down myself, but it's obvious you have no clue what you are talking about. Throwing around old worn out cliches about Linux being a command line only OS, and telling us how it's a "single machine OS" smacks of someone whoring for Karma points based on replies to your post.
It's a rough world out there. If you can't stand getting moderated down once in a while, then go play in some other sandbox. That, or try learning something new for a change.
--
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Perhaps the article should read: " Great onigiri there too... (thats a japanses food for all you dimwits who cant guess that)"
What fuckwit moderated this up as "+1 informative"? It should be "-2 very, very lame"
This is one of those celebrations of the irrelevant lampoooned in the recent Bill Gates satire letter. Does having Linux installed on terminals in Japan somehow do something to boost the productivity of Linux users? Does it do anything to promote Linux on the desktop? Why does it matter that they didn't use a one of many lesser-known embedded OSes that already have larger installed bases in these circles? Heck, you could run articles like this about embedded systems every week (QNX used for project XXX), because the embedded market is so huge that 15,000 units is pitifully small. We're one step away from rah-rahing over stories like "Linux-based PC seen in background of new Kim Basinger movie," which is pretty much what the Amiga crowd stooped to in it's declining years (no joke).
"aaah, you so fuh-nee!"
No, that press release comes after the one saying that the proper pronunciation of "American" is "eye-soh-lay-shun-ist ih-dee-ut". Setting aside, for now, the truly juvenille and mean-spirited nature of your little dig at cultures other than your own, I question exactly how expanding one's market to equal more than just the United States causes people to flee that product.
Take Linux, for example. Funny thing about Linux is, it's written largely by a man living in a little place called Finland. Not only do people not make snide, stupid jokes about having to pronounce it "Lee-nux-a-hur-de-hur-de-hur", it seems to be doing quite well in pretty much any market you look to, despite being marketed mostly on an international basis.
In any case, claiming that a company lost favor because of an increased focus on international marketing and sales is among the most sophomoric business analyses as one could make. It's akin to saying that atheists/ethnic minorities/Harry Potter books/homosexuals/etc. are destroying the Moral Fiber Of America: it's simplistic idiot-mongering at it's finest. Businesses do not rise or fall on one criteria alone.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Now I can buy my $7.00 Sukora and Beppin soft-core porn magazines without the terminal crashing!
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Why is it that the conversation always oves back to megacorps?
Vine Linux seems to be the current Japanese favorite.
Turbolinux is also very popular.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Another example: I hear recent technological developments like the office LAN came into widespread use... never.
Not yet anyway.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Why use a standard ugly IBM box, when you can get that trendy Japanese cute thing going on by using iMacs instead? They run linux as well as the next personal computer.
Lycestra
What web browser will they use? Mozilla, Netscape? Yuck.
Nyetscape 4.x, which crashes a lot (more so than either major browser on Windows), Nyetscape 3.x which crashes less but is years out of date, or Mozilla which still has lots of rough edges? Or perhaps they'll go for stability and just run Links in a big Xterm. :-)
I use Linux myself, but the rather poorly web browsing experience on it tempts me to get VMWare just so that I can use a web browser that doesn't crash and supports modern standards.
That's because connecting to the internet used to require a lot of hassle. A key-thing to learn about the Japanese economy is that, surprisingly enough, it is mainly driven by young females. If the young female can't work out how to use it, it tends not to catch on. This is why Japan is one of the most advanced countries in the world when it comes to mobile phones. They are *perfect* for the young female's needs. And this is where most young females have discovered the internet. Not via PCs and MACs like most of the west, but via "I-Mode", a tiny 20x10 (or thereabouts) character screen that can connect to the internet. (a million new subscribers to I-mode a month was the last report I heard) Far easier to use, set up and a lot cheaper (initial cost) than a PC, modem, phone line etc. (just an observation seeing as I do actually live here in Japan)
"Customers will be able to download music, movies and other Web multimedia at Lawson's more than 7,500 stores."
Okay. So, customers will be able to download music, movies, and other web multimedia. At a convience store. Believe me, I think that its snazzy that they're installing all those Linux stations, but can someone explain to me what the point of it all is?
<translator = "Japanese">
"Mummy, I'm bored."
"Go play with the Linux station honey. Listen to some music or something."
"But I forgot my headphones..."
"Just go press buttons! Let Mummy finish her shopping!"
</translator>
:)
I'm not sure I can see the practicality, if its only going to be used for web media.
"O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" She chortled in her joy.
Moderate up!
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
...and around the world, by Tesco (a big supermarket in the UK). See this story from The Register.
Which, I guess, means that that is the biggest install of Linux, rather than in Japan.
Is it any coincidence that Tesco is supposedly also the largest online grocery retailer in the world? Erm, probably...
...j
i hate onigiri, especially when it's been sitting around for awhile and the fish is really stinky.
However, in the library lobby they had an internet kiosk set up--some company called pieNETWORKS offering 15 minutes internet access for $1 AUS. Reasonable price in that area. Out of interest I dropped in a buck and checked it out. Saw the Netscape browser with X-style widgets, typed "about:" into the Location field, and hidey-ho, we got ourselves a Linux workstation.
Of course, I hit CTRL-ALT-F1 and it dropped into console mode showing all of the STDOUT messages. Hmm, might want to disable that function. The kiosk came with a nice big reset button, though, which is probably what most people would do if they saw an ugly console window staring at them.
Go on then, teach us how to pronounce it properly.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
eye-bee-emm. Can you say "IBM"? Good, I knew that you could.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Bleacch. No thanks; I'll take the US or even Europe any day.
Cool, I was just wondering if it would be "aah-bee-emm" or "ahh-buey-eirm" or
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
As far as IBM is concerned, the only loyal customers they have remaining are the gullible corporations and foreign buyers who just don't know any better. They don't see IBM's hypocrisy (making CPU designs for Apple even though they started the PC standard way back in 1981, pushing free Linux even though they're still pimping their "worth its weight in gold" AIX, et cetera). I won't be surprised to see IBM die a quiet death of obsolescence; the only thing holding IBM away from the flames is their server design, and even that's being outshined by other companies.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Since the premise, observations ("purchase of Avery Brooks"? he's an actor, for God's sake) and conclusions are bogus, I can only assume that what you're really objecting to is IBM permitting a customer to use... eeek!!! Linux.
Where in that quote did the writer use the word "only"?
Geez.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
I grew up in Japan from the late 70's through the 80's. There was a Lawson near the international school I went to (Canadian Academy, YO!). And I gotta say their onigiris never disappointed. After-school snacks usually included a katsuo onigiri with a Japanese sports drink. (Strange names, but they were usually better-tasting than Gatorade.)
Despite all of this, over the last century their economy has grown at almost three times the rate of ours. In the last decade though, as evidenced by the fact that their stock market is STILL about half of what it was at its peak (which was 8 or 9 years ago), this has started to catch up with them. So, the important thing to remember about the Japanese is that working men don't buy anything, it's the women, and out of some quirk in pyschology, young people tend to consume more (worldwide) than old people, so as the above poster states, young women drive the consumer sector of the Japanese economy
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I know im going to be flamed for this, but I like the "natto" onigiri
Netscape 4? ha! Mozilla? ha!
As Linux popularity and market share grows, the resistance to it, as embodied in this post, will also grow.
Currently, Linux intrudes on two major markets and communities - the commercial UNIX world, and the NT world. As advancements in GUI environments and basic usability come along, Linux will also begin to intrude on Windows desktop OS's. It'll probably also move in on the embedded market, but I'll ignore that for now, because, like DBA's and web surfers, embedded OS users usually don't care about the OS as long as it does the job.
Anti-Linux zealotry isn't likely to come from commercial UNIX users. While Linux may represent a threat to traditional UNIX vendors which are slow to adopt Linux as a core OS technology (SUN), it is an opportunity for others (SGI, IBM). More importantly, at the individual level the overlap between Linux and UNIX users is large. To anyone familiar with multiple commercial UNIX distributions, the similarities of UNIX and Linux are greater than the differences. Current UNIX users adapt easily to Linux, and consequently do not view Linux as a threat.
Windows users, on the other hand, have more adapting to do - new applications and interfaces spawn resistance even within the Windows world. "Windows Professionals" - NT administrators and other IT staff - have even more to learn before adapting to Linux, as the adminstrative tools are completely different and are based on concepts completely foreign to them. Consequently, Linux represents a basic threat to them. If Linux is deployed where they work, they will have to adapt or become useless.
An important factor to consider is one of the great things Linux (and UNIX) has going for it - reduced administrative cost. With UNIX and Linux, fewer people are required to run more systems. This is especially true when the people doing it have a higher skill level. With Windows, a certain number or people are required to perform a given number of tasks on a given number of systems. With Linux and UNIX, the number of people required to do the same thing is inversely proportional to skill of the people doing it, up to the point at which the number of people remains constant for any number of systems.
If *nix usage and marketshare continues to grow, this means that the IT workforce will shrink as productivity increases. A smaller number of people with greater skill will be accomplishing what the current workforce is doing. Because the current UNIX worker base will most easily adapt to the transition, this meanss that they can look forward to continues employment in even higher paying jobs. Meanwhile, the current "Windows Professionals" will be stuck working in a field with shrinking job counts and a lower barrier to entry, with correspondingly lower wages.
So think about the *real* implications of this article, and other like it, to a Windows Admin. "Distant Thunder" doesn't even cover it - more like the corporate bean counter grinding the company axe in the cubicle next door.
The resistance to Linux will grow as Linux's threat becomes more apparent and tangible. As Linux's market share increase, and Windows' shrinks, the number of Anti-Linux and Pro-MS zealots will increase in number, but and become much more vocal. Posts like this will become more common and more virulent. It was like this when the Amiga faded - Amiga zealots become louder and more fanatical as they became increasingly desperate.
Get used to it. It's the price of victory, but it won't last forever.
Actually, that was it. I'm afraid I didn't catch the reference; in reading your post, however, you might see how one could take issue with the statement if they had never seen the commercial, or not remembered it from nearly ten years ago. My apologies if offense was taken where none was intended.
I maintain that the expansion of IBM into global markets isn't their downfall, though. Globalization is almost always a Good Thing for a company, and even in those cases where a company declines, the globalization is rarely the culprit for the fall. (Now, poor management of the changes needed to go global is another thing, but that's management, not the international marketplace and marketing.)
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
The idea that everything should be "one thing" (in the case of Unix, that one thing being a file) seems right. But why should that one thing be a file? An alternative would be to have an OS where everything is a process. Unix proves that this is feasible, since any file can be turned into a process. To me, using processes would seem to lead to a more elegant formulation. Processes are also much closer to the way programmers think about things than files.
As far as I'm aware, there isn't an OS based on the process paradigm.
Netscape 4.x absolutely reeks of bugs on Linux, I can't imagine they'd be using that....but then what? Netscape would crash too much
Perhaps he's just an angry retail worker wishing he could run with the big dogs? hehehehe...
Blar.
This "Linux" thing I've heard about? I'm not really "up" on technological issues but if I remember rightly it's a new food processor, right? I'm assuming so, since that "2.4" thing makes sense with the standard 2.4" chopping blade that I heard it had. It's nice to see a website that gives such in-depth coverage to this sort of thing!
"Linux? Looks like a thousand monkeys at a thousand keyboards to me. Of course, they also throw feces"
The cNet version of the story is here.
I notice it mentions that Lawson currently has Windows computers that let customers buy concert tickets and reserve airline tickets.
End result - Bill G loses, Linux wins.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Lawson's nikkumon is really good, too! It's a reasonably cheap way to fill yourself up fast, and if you are ever in Japan, I highly recommend it.
Natto RULES!!!
I've printed this out and nailed it on the wall. :) You should have had +5 insightful. Ah well.. you know /. ... IF EXISTS (SELECT @iPostingID=PostingID FROM POSTINGS WHERE CONTENT LIKE %anti-linux%) BEGIN EXEC sp_DegradePosting @iPostingID END
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Windows 98 is deliberately designed to crash.
Run Windows 98 Resource Meter (Start/Accessories/System Tools/Resource Meter).
User resources and GDI resources are very limited, by design. Exceed the need for these resources, and Win 98 and Win 95 will crash, no matter how much memory you have.
A company that has a monopoly can make more money by supplying an operating system with major design flaws. The company can slowly remove the flaws over several versions, and charge everyone for each new version.
They saved my ass when I was there last. Lawson is the Japanese equivelant to 7-11... except that for the most part, Lawsons are always spotlessly clean. It's also the only place in (at least where i was) Sapporo where you can get food at 3:30 am.
Oddly enough, I can't figure out how the Japanese euphoniously pronounce "Linux"... I mean, rii-nu-(small tsu)ku-su?! Arg. Hagire yoi jya nai desu yo! Dame da ne...
grumble mutter I need katakana & kanji
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Anybody remeber the Lucky Dragon chain of 24/7 convience stores in Idoru and other Gibson novels? I think this is just one sign of us moving towards the inevitable Mega-Corp world ;)
FYI: Linus now lives in Santa Clara, California working for Transmeta. He moved here about a year or so ago. (However he did come from Finland, and did most of the work from there)
-Peter Hessler
-Peter Hessler
phessler@DELETE.paychex.com
...I hope more thought is given to making Linux easier to use and install.
Linux has made improvements, but there is still a "hacker ethos" in the Linux hierarchy that argues "if you don't know what you're doing, get out or RTFM".
Several years ago, I was suprised to see a friend, a female english teacher, set up a network of macs in her classroom with something like two pages of easily read documents...the server on her desk, the clients on the students' desks, the printers in the back of the room. It all just "set itself up" -- she did almost nothing except take the machines out of the boxes and hook them up.
Linux (and to a lesser extent) M$HAFT can't do this...Linux didn't exist back then, and there was no DHCP yet. Apple really deserves credit for some of the cool "empowering" things they've done.
Some things that would help linux :
1) Automagic install. Just do it.
2) Am I a server/admin or a client/user? If server, handle modem, printer and net details. If client, handle net details. Everything should just work.
3) Security console. Small GUI that shows who is doing what, where. Big button to shut off and/or turn on all connections/services.
A lot of people in Linux don't like to think about "automagic" installs and networking. "RTFM" is their battle cry.
Please, let's make things "mo betta". 5% of the global population should not have to studie sysadmin-ing.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
So? I submitted it two days ago and Taco hisself came to my apt. and kicked me in the yarbles -- and, believe me, there ain't much protecting them.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
i must agree there.. i like many things about japan.. women being a definate part of what i like
I believe sex is highly over rated... unless it involves me
So, if you're tired of that short article, here's the long Forbes article which goes into great detail about what this means for Linux OS market share, as they report as "one out of every four new corporate servers runs Linux".
"Why did Lawson choose Linux? Because ``it's easy to maintain and costs less than other operating systems to implement,'' according to Makoto Takayama, general manager of the company's New Business Division. Translation: It's cheaper than Windows, which currently runs the terminals that Lawson customers use to order concert tickets and book airline reservations.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
It's not clear whether you're for real (imo) but I'd certainly not believe you without at least a traceable email, preferably .edu. If I had to guess, I'd say it was actually someone trying to get that mail address to have some particularly confusing SPAM, from us.
If you're serious, post more details, and I bet a bunch o' us will take you up on it. But I'm betting you're not.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
I always recommend a mac to any non-geek.
The mac is, imo, equivalent to NT (the benefits are opposite, but the value is there) and basically won't cause you problems... and you won't need to pay someone (usually) to fix silly software problems.
But I advise anyone who is OR is trying to learn to be a geek to buy a PC. Because Mac hardware is too expensive. AFAIK, this is NOT price gouging on Apple's part. Compared to other PPC solutions, they're downright cheap (especially their cheap stuff) but they don't have the volume the PC world has, and everything just costs more.
Also, the right solution to a huge number of PCs is that when you ahve a software problem, you recopy an HD image. Meaning that the ease of untrained repair for the mac is a lost cause.
The other reason, of course, is because the terminals are WINBLOWS!, and only the server is linux. But it's a related point - Win w/ ME is cheaper, only it's much suckier and less stable. But if you actually are going to reinstall all the time (preferably from img) and you're not going to have YOUR files on there, it's a good value. Not as good as linux, which has the best of these worlds...
but for price, it's going to be linux on x86 for at least a few more years, maybe more.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
...is at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2649 223,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01
I see this as only an attempt to improve their stores tarnished Feng Shui. (incredibly huge markup, just try to afford a 12 pack of American beer and a pack of cigarettes![let alone American mags such as 2600 or High Times{one issue of HT cost me 12 US$}]) The illusion of freedom and low price that having/providing Linux terminals implies should dramatically improve not only their Feng Shui (terminals positioned properly of course) but also their bottom line.
.sig wanted: Must be concise, funny, and display my cleverness.
Are you trying to say that if one does not use remote X capabilities, it is just an indication that one is too dumb to figure it out? To harness the true power of Linux? Hmmm, okay...
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
You just have to worry about script kiddies and buffer overflows, wrong permissions, etc etc. Imagine not paying attention to bugtraq and having 15,000 boxes to DoS from.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Of course it's no concidence... that's the average number of folds they use at the Taco Bell on Route 3 in Clifton, NJ.