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Sega to develop Dreamcast PCI Card
Fervent writes "Sega plans on developing a PCI card to put in your box that will play Dreamcast games." The bit is pretty much a total rumor with no evidence at all, but it sure would be nifty.
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Who cares what the format is? Just spin the platter and read the entire spiral of bits to the hard drive (a few GB should handle the CD). Then "play back the spiral" to a CD writer. No data or tracks or sectors is interpreted at all. Why bother? The only issue is the size of the bits. Increase the "sampling rate" to get more accurate bit lengths (at the cost of more disk space). Yes this would result is "bit stretching" leading to generational copy errors, but it would copy that original CD with no problems REGARDLESS OF DATA FORMAT. No CD would be "uncopyable" (HFS, CDROM, PHOTO CD, PSX, GD-ROM). It would even copy that text burned into that ring halfway along the Dreamcast CDs!
If it's a hoax it has to be doubly as impressive that the user managed to hack into PCGamer's web site to post it. :)
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I worked for 3DO when this product was developed. The idea was to tap into the PC gamer market which (it was thought) was more willing to pay >$400 for a gaming peripheral. Unfortunately, as conceived by the executive staff at 3DO, the idea was a non-starter.
Here are the bone-headed moves Sega needs to avoid to increase their chances of success:
The 3DO at that time only had drivers for a particular bug-ridden 2X CD-ROM drive from Matsushita. Fortunately for Creative, this was the same drive they were already offering. Customers who didn't already own this drive either had to buy one or were SOL.
Though the claim was never made outright, the PR for the 3DO Blaster hinted very strongly that the Blaster would offer its services to the PC, like any other PC peripheral. That is to say, 3CO/Creative left the impression that the 3DO Blaster would accelerate your PC games. This was not true (nor, as best I recall, was it ever intended to be). The 3DO Blaster card was a world unto itself; all it "shared" was your PC display, CD-ROM drive, and power supply.
3DO was intensely paranoid about "piracy", but for different reasons. 3DO executives saw the Multiplayer machine (we called it Opera) as their "property" and, in order to execute code on their "property", you had to sign a manufacturing/licensing agreement whereby you paid $3/disc (later raised to $6). This was ostensibly the licensing fee for the operating system (Portfolio) we provided. But what if you loaded in all your own code and/or data, such that nothing running in Opera's memory was copyrighted by 3DO (so you didn't have to pay them a fee for it)? 3DO was intensely paranoid this would happen, and went to extraordinary technical lengths to make certain that not one single byte of data entering the machine hadn't been paid for. Thus, the only way data entered the 3DO was through the CD-ROM drive off a licensed 3DO disc. Period. All other channels were sealed off. Thus the 3DO Blaster offered nothing over a stand-alone unit, except more complicated PC configuration. (It originally shipped for Windoze 3.1; I don't know if it ever got updated for Windoze 95.)
All in all, though it gave us some practice dealing with the PC architecture, I felt the project was a waste of resources. Of course, 3DO was wasting a lot of resources back then, but that's another flame entirely.
Disclaimer: I am a former 3DO employee, with a total tenure of 4.5 years, laid off in one of their countless "reorganizations" (though, to their credit, they were nicer to me about it than they were to almost everyone else). I felt, and still feel, betrayed by the executive staff's failure to capitalize on what we had created by the blood, sweat, tears, and love we had poured into those machines.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Noone would do it. ;)
Emulators do a perfectly fine job of imitating NES hardware, and the cost of using old stock parts for the NES and sticking them on a PCI card isn't justified on a 486 or better PC. The thing I would like to try is to just build an interface to read the cartridges. I already built a PS Memory card reader/writer , shouldn't be much tougher
I think there's no way they're going to want to buy Sega. We'll see.
I only remember actually seeing it once in an ad, but I know there was a 3D0 PCI card waaay back in the day. No word on how it worked, but it must have. AFAIK, the package consisted of one (rather large) PCI card, a gamepad, and some DOS drivers.
if you have 3 times the resolution spare, i guess you could use 3 (vertical, perhaps) pixels instead of one, and just use each pixel for just r,g or b.
Exactly. At least the SETI hoax had some (poorly faked) pictures. This one's just a one paragraph blurb.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
You are wrong. GD-Rom's can NOT be read by normal CD-Roms. GDROMs have a special high density section in the center of the disk that is not readable in anything but a Sega GDRom drive.
The guys who pirate DC software use a special cable they made to interface the serial port on their computer to the Dreamcast and they use the GDRom in the DC to read the disks.
Sigs are awesome huh?
First of all, has anyone looked at a GD-ROM? Theres actual writing on the inner part of the cd...which was done to prevent piracy. So, anyone with a CDrom can foget about using the PCI card. As for DVD, im doubting it will work, but like mentioned piraters have found ways to do it. Is Sega going to take the risk of putting out modifications so we can read these drives? Even if its built into the program, theres still a risk. Finally, with Dreamcasts being very cheap as it is, this PCI card will have to be even more cheap, or really whats the point?
I thought one of the major selling points of the DC (to developers) was that it was hard to copy games b/c PC CDROMS can't read the GDROMs used (BTW, they can hold ~1GB IIRC). So how do I get the game TO my computer? Also, what would go on a PCI CARD??? as best I can tell, impediments to playing DC games are: different ISA (OK, we put a CPU on the card or emulate), different graphics, put a graphics chip on the card? seems mre likely than a CPU. And then problems with peripherals like the GDROMs. so what the heck would a PCI card do if it wasn't a graphics card, which seems like overkill to me? This rumor seems a bit far-fetched.
Lots of people are bitching about this being pretty much a total rumor, and /. reporting it anyways.
What's wrong with reporting rumors, as long as they are clearly marked as such? Many of us (myself included) like to hear about these "wouldn't it be cool if..." types of stories, and Slashdot clearly explained this is a rumor.
What's the problem?
Can we say emulation board? This kinda thing isn't old. Just about every game console has a computer board (internal or external) that emulates the real thing. It's sold to game developers so you don't have to burn neumerous cds a day to develop a game. Makes sense don't it?
:wq! DOH!
Roy Miller
--Roy
I'm rather surprised that many of the comments on this story seem to indicate that the authors believe you cannot create dreamcast discs with your PC, or that the two are completely unable to swap media.
Hate to tell you folks, but there's a fairly active community of people involved in both creating their own games for the DC, as well as successfully replicating their purchased games. Boot loaders, cdi's, and a few other twists...
Check my Go-related blog for beginners: DGD
Right on the 2nd point; afaik, there was a PC/DC interface that was designed by/for people who were experienting with DC programming - demos, simple games/mp3 players, etc. The interface allowed them to upload code direct to the console, but it also allowed data to be read from GD-ROMs.
People don't copy GD-ROMs, a small number of people (who've build or obtained on of the interfaces) rip the games to their PCs, make ISO images and then burn those to CDR. GD-ROM is unreadable in any PC CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive (contrary to many rumours when the whole DC piracy thing took off).
I may be wrong, this is 2nd hand knowledge - I don't own a DC (but MSR might convince me otherwise..) :-)
Show me the actual press release with actual quotes of Sega execs saying "We plan to develop for rival consoles" "Dreamcast is our final console" all ive seen is sega planning to license their hardware and develop a few games for portible devices Where do you get "consoles" and "rival platforms" from? Where does sega say this is their final console? Post the quotes, then its fact. "11/1/00 - Troubled Japanese videogame maker Sega said on Wednesday it aims to boost its share of the global market for videogame software to 25 percent, shifting its focus to software from loss-making hardware." As you can tell from the first sentence, this report obviously is not a direct press release from Sega. "Sega Corp, the world's third-largest home videogame maker, unveiled last Friday a far-reaching strategy including plans to provide game software for rival makers' consoles." Still he said she said garbage, wheres the actual press release with the president of Sega making this statement? Until i see it, why believe it? "It will also license its mainstay Dreamcast (news - web sites) game console's design technology to makers of personal computers and cell phones so as to increase compatible PCs and other devices." This i did see in the official press release, this is the only fact which can be backed up by looking at the official press release which I'm about to post. MY proof. " Across the Pacific, Sega of America's PR arm Access Communications referred to the Reuters story as erroneous. The statement that Sega's business strategy would include providing "content to existing platforms such as PCs, mobile phones and handheld PDAs" certainly conjures up notions of Sonic on Gamecube and Phantasy Star on Xbox, but such a notion was dismissed by the company's American office. Sega of America steadfastly proclaimed that the company would not develop titles for other platforms, and that the press release was never intended to imply such." Even Sega saying themselves the story isnt true isnt enough to keep websites from posting it up as news. : "This announcement has been made in one form or another at least five times since I've been working at Sega of America," Heather Hawkins, Sega of America's manager for gaming press relations said. "The announcement that was made is not about other platforms as you would think of them -- say, Nintendo or PlayStation. It's about other technologies such as cell phones, PDAs, and set top boxes. It's about taking Dreamcast technology onto those other hardware platforms." Hawkins noted that Sega's online plans have effectively served to increase the Dreamcast's life span. "We're looking at a business plan that assumes a five- or six-year cycle for the Dreamcast," she said. "From the very beginning, we've made the Dreamcast so it could be upgraded, so that it can change as technology changes." Despite Sega's clarifications, this story gained legs, and the Internet blazed with messages heralding Sega's impending demise. Videogame websites igndc.com and computerandvideogames.com posted stories that Sega and Nintendo would be forming a joint venture -- with computerandvideogames.com proclaiming, "In a move that could seriously signal the end of the Dreamcast as a viable platform, Sega has confirmed an online venture with Nintendo." The normally sane, sober and highly reliable site had bought in to the hype, and was forced to admit it printed news based on a mistranslation; the supposed "joint" online venture between Sega and Nintendo was actually between Sega and Marigul Management, whose director had been linked to Nintendo in some peripheral way. There you have it, Sega says they are not developing for rival consoles. There shouldnt be any more argument about this. I suppose Daily Radar is the only website willing to admit they made a mistake, all of the others are trying to save face by claiming it to be fact and not rumor. Really though, Sega says its false, you cant really say Sega is wrong.
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In 1995, following on the heals of the announcement that 3DO would put their hardware on a PC card, Sega struck a deal with nVidia. That deal lead to the inclusion of Sega Saturn controller ports on the Diamond Edge 3D card. The Edge 3D featured the NV1 chipset. The board shipped with some Saturn games that had been ported to the hardware (a supposedly easy task). No other games were ever ported, though.
While the Edge 3D and the NV1 chipset are pretty much regarded as disasters, the chipset did have some interesting features--like hardware support for quadratic surfaces.
Sega already made a PC adapter! It's called the VGA Box. Go to EB or whatever and pick up a third party VGA box (Sega's is overpriced) and hook your DC up to your VGA monitor and your PC's speakers, viola!
Makes a lot more sense than making a PCI card and a GD-ROM for PC. And of course if Sega made a PC GD-ROM DC warez would be even more common than they already are.
Yes, and since it is a rumor, it is posted on Slashdot. News for nerds indeed. And to think, the media is the GD-ROM format; completely NOT supported by a standard CD-ROM. I do wonder how they would get around this little problem, force the user to install a new CD drive along with the card? Hmmmmm, I don't think so......
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
pretty much a total rumor with no evidence at all.
What? Not at all like these TOTALLY un-rumorlike posts: Sega is getting out of hardware altogether and nothing to do with shift[ing] their focus to software development
Good ole Slashdot. Where would I be without my rumours.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Why would I want to buy a proprietary piece of hardware my computer that has the lone usage of being able to? I can put a fast graphics card in my box instead and it will run all the games and at faster performance.
Sega should dump hardware (like they are doing now) and JUST stick to software. Emulation is the way to go in my opinion versus hardware addon. Also, if Sega was smart, they would make their games easily portable to Windows, Linux and Mac. It's a much bigger market than those who have a proprietary piece of hardware.
Peace.
From what I've read, you can't even find a CD player that will read Dreamcast discs. Copyproof, readproof, futile for now. A PCI card would make no sense.
here is the ign article on the same thing from a couple of days ago. it has somewhat more stuff than the one paragraph pc gamer article that is going around at the moment, although nothing that really substantiates the rumour any further. http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/27172.html
Creative Labs shipped a 3DO-system-on-a-card, but it only worked with a Creative Labs CD-ROM. The dependancy killed it; it just wasn't useful enough.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Hmmm... FUD anyone? It's hard to believe a "professional" that refers to it as "Windoze".
As a side note, I wish Slashdotters would get over the whole "M$" thing. It's purely childish. I'm a bigger FreeBSD fan, and I don't call it "Linsux".
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
(eight stories down.....)
"What Will Happen to Sega?" "A reader writes "Sega is getting out of hardware altogether."
So, wich one is it?
--I assume full responsibility for my actions, except the ones that are someone else's fault.
This has got to be a hoax. Read this post from earlier this week. I'm guessing that some user slapped himself together a web page and submitted it so Slashdot.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Of course, Sega could switch back to a CD-ROM format.
It would be nice, but the only problem is that a majority of the games coming out use all of that 1.2 gig format. So, that would invalidate quite a few of the games available, and they would have to be re-pressed to span multiple discs. Take Shenmue, for example. 3 GD-ROM disks, all full. For this vaporware to work, it would have to be a pack in GD drive.
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Umm, the NES has 3.5 MHz processor. You should have no problem emulating it on a PC. Hell, you'd have no problem emulating that on my TI83!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Yes, a friend of mine had it; the games were still ports, though (and not particularly good ones, the framerate in virtua fighter was awful), but the controllers worked in a Saturn. I actually think it was an integrated video card and controller port.
--
Sega have tried this before in association with Amstrad. You could buy a PC (486/Early Pentium?) with a Mega Drive built in (it was on the motherboard not a card I think). It didn't last very long but the Mega Drive was near the end of it's life cycle anyway.