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Can the BSA Investigate Your office for Piracy?
Kool Moe was the first of several to note that the BSA is sending letters to companies saying they're offering a 'software truce' until December 1st... From the letter: "If your company takes steps to be sure they're fully compliant with all software licenses, the BSA will not fine you should they find you were not compliant previous to this date. If not, all bets are off and if the BSA finds you in violation, you could "face penalities totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars." The question is of course, can the BSA just come into your office and look? Is this a scare tactic? I'm definitely no expert since almost all of my stuff is free.
When the BSA guy shows up, I'd talk for a few minutes, ask him what it's about... then signal security to come in with guns drawn. Get it all on videotape, and call the police with the BSA guy in the room, and videotaped... "Sir, someone showed up at our business making demands that sound like extortion. He is trespassing, and when we declined to become his next victim, we were afraid that he would become violent. Our security has him detained, but frankly we're all very scared. There is also the possibility that he is impersonating law enforcement, you'd have to listen to his deranged story. Please come quickly."
Stores do not have the right to search you. Say 'no' and leave. I do this all the time -- and I'm entirely honest. I don't steal things, I just refuse to be searched. They can't do a damn thing about it.
:-)
The only stores that CAN search you are ones that make membership contingent on you being searched -- I believe they make you sign forms to get the membership. (I am specifically thinking of Costco.) I am thinking that this may be something you could fight, but it would probably be a big scene.
But in any non-membership retailer, just say no and walk out. You're doing everyone a favor.
Don't give up your rights voluntarily to 'be nice' -- if everyone does that they disappear!
I'm not too terribly worried about the Boy Scouts of America checking to see whether I've stolen software.
Don't post on slashdot. Get back to work.
What if you run a home business? Could the BSA fine you if other computers in your house are running unlicenced software??? Would it be concidered an invasion of privacy?
I can just picture a bunch of jack-booted-thugs with little microsoft logos on their jackets slithering down black nylon ropes from building rooftops and popping in the windows of offices around the country to run the filedrawers and poke around on everybody's drives to look for pirate copies of office or whatever.
If they show up at my house/office/wherever, I'll beat them to death with an old UNIX manual in a laundry bag (sort of a geek's blackjack...).
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Play Six Pack Man. I
Just a few years ago, the Boy Scouts of America managed to prohibit homosexuals from being scoutmasters, and now they are into software piracy investigations! Will wonders never cease...
Matt Barnson
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Does anyone have the URL for the case where Microsoft lost a piracy case because they were illegally investigating someone's computer files?
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
If all your office software (Operating systems, productivity software, etc) is free, the license is owned by you, or you specificaly contracted someone to use that software (not an off the shelf product), then chances are good that you will have no problems, even with a raid, which is highly unlikely. The biggest issue with WinXX operating systems is the ability and somewhat necessesity to install a copy of the software on every machine that is required to use it. If I want to be able to edit a word document on any system, I need to install Word/Office on every system, even if 99.999% of the time I will only be using it on one computer. Unless I want to go through with the hassle of installing/deleting the software every time I plan to use it I am technically in violation. If you're using a workstation/server based model, such as using exported X displays on a linux system, then you install the software once on the server and even if the software has a limited site license, that license will be enforced by the software itself. It doesn't matter how many different places I can access the software from, if I only use it from one or two locations at a time, I simply purchase a license for that many simultanious instances of the program and the problem is solved. I get the flexibility, the software company gets fairly compensated. Another issue is there is a TON of software for windows while off the shelf products for linux and other UNIX based operatins systems are rare. Sometimes this is used as a negative, but in this case its quite positive to avoid copyright infringement issues. If I'm running linux on 100% of my systems, unless I'm running wine, vmware or some other emulator, I can safely say that I'm not running ANY software that works on a microsoft operating system. This almost eliminates the possibility of piracy, accidental or otherwise. Even linux software that is not free is usually distributed free for personal use or under some type of temporary trial license. For instance, Realserver for Linux, which costs a HUGE chunk of cash for a large operation, is free to use for less than 25 simultanious connections. One last reason for using a unix based OS is that your employees are less likely to bring stuff from home to run on "their" computer. You won't be affected by the next Melissa VBS "virus". Consider this. -Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Actually, this is an excellent case for ensuring that all your employees ONLY use open source software, or worst case, if you have to use licensed software, that you not allow employees to install whatever they want on their systems. Otherwise, the company may end having to pay for 100 copies of Quake3 that the developers installed on their workstations, amongst other things. It sucks, but hey, this is what happens when you have organizations like the BSA around. Don't these guys realize this just further strengthens the case for only using free software?
Frankly, I would just ensure that my operation was only using free software, and not do business with companies that support these jack-booted thug like tactics of the BSA. I don't care what their argument is, you simply do not play cop with your customers. Its BAD for business. As a business owner and a customer, I simply would not, and will not, stand for this sort of nonsense and we would never shake our customers down like this - if we ever wanted to do business with them again.
From now on, we're going to ask our vendors if they are part of the BSA and insist that if they are, that they sign a contract with us that precludes them from disrupting our operations with this sort of nonsense. And if they won't sign it, then we're taking our business elsewhere. I suggest others do the same. I intimately understand what is behind the BSA's arguments, but their methods are unacceptable IMHO.
In all my years with many software and hardware companies, we never had to resort to these scare tactics, or worse yet calling in the feds on our customers. We simply did business with companies that were willing to pay for our software, and we didn't worry about the ones that didn't. What company in their right mind would want to use software from Vendor X in the future if they had been treated like this?
Python
Python
Unless
:-)
a) They are a government agency with some sort of enforcement powers
or
b) They are mentioned explicitly in a company's site license, as an inspector to ensure software legitimacy
Otherwise they have no grounds to actually turn up and demand entrance.
Unless, of course, they claim that they are in "hot pursuit", attempting to make a citizen's arrest
IANAL(BMDI)
I Am Not A Lawyer (But My Dad Is)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
I sure hope they don't find out I'm using a pirated copy of Red Hat.
A disgruntled student turned in my High School in 1998 for allegedly having more installs of software than we had licenses for. The BSA sent a certified letter stating that we had to do a full audit and prove we had licenses for everything or they would come in and raid us, that non-complience was enough evidence for a search warrant, etc, etc. Our lawyers seemed to agree that it was within their rights. Luckily, we had all the licenses, but I don't think that is quite legal. I can see the FBI doing that, but this is a private company. Seems like this is a great way to "get even" with someone, because even if they are licensed, it takes many, many, many hundreds of hours of work, even for a school with 120 computers.
-mark
-mark
If your computer says LINUX, run...computers can't talk! [unless you have text-speech software]
Yes--the BSA can raid your office. Here's how it works.
The BSA actively advertises for disgruntled employees or former employees to turn in companies that cheat on their license agreements. When they get a complaint they typically attempt to substantiate the allegation (that is, is the source of the complaint credible as a witness?). The process is quite similar to ascertaining the credibility of an informant by the police. We'll get to the reason why below.
If the BSA thinks there is something to the case, they will send a scary letter from the lawyers--we have reason to believe you are in violation of license agreements, etc. The letter will ask the company to "voluntarily" permit the BSA to come and audit the company's network to determine whether or not the company is in violation of license agreements.
If the company agrees to a "voluntary" inspection, the BSA shows up, installs a network app that scans the network for software from the BSA membership, and totals up the number of copies. They then ask the company to document purchases of all of the copies on the network--and they bill the company for the retail price of any copies that cannot be documented. Full retail can be a pretty stiff price to pay--but most companies figure that full retail is cheap compared to the cost of fighting the BSA in court. If the company pays up, the case ends.
If the company ignores the first scary letter, they get a second scary letter from the BSA lawyers. That is much more direct, and to the point. If the company agrees, the same "volutary" inspection happens.
But let's suppose that the company ignores the scary letters. If you've watched a videotape recently you will note that videotapes sold in the U.S. include a warning that copyright infringement is punishable under federal law, and is investigated by the FBI. Federal law permits private individuals (including corporations and associations) to gather evidence of a crime and present it to the feds for them to pursue. The BSA's initial complaint, buttressed by a "good faith" effort to enlist the company cooperation (that is, the first and second scary letters), is regarded by the FBI as justification for a warrant. (That's why the BSA evaluates the credibility of the complaint--that's a key part of the request for a federal warrant.) The FBI and/or the U.S. Marshals, with the BSA, arrive--unannounced--at the company site, with a federal warrant.
When they enter the premises they will serve the warrant, and they will announce, loudly, that everyone in the premises must stand up and step away from their keyboards immediately. These people are feds--they carry guns. They mean business. And they are serious. If this happens where you work, by all means, stand up, and step away from your keyboard. Do not try to be a hero for your employer and attempt to delete the 3000 bootleg copies of Leisure Suit Larry that you know are distributed across the enterprise. They can 'cuff you and arrest you.
Once the feds have "secured" the scene, the BSA people step up and install their network spy application to identify all the software on the network that doesn't have a license. If they find any (and they almost certainly will) they and the feds will propose a settlement: pay full retail, plus a whopping fine (like $1500 per copy) for each bootleg copy found. Or, face criminal prosecution by the FBI for copyright infringement--followed by a civil court action for damages after the criminal case is finished. Any company with half a brain (or anything resembling a competent lawyer) is going to cave and pay the "settlement". The cost (and the adverse publicity) of a criminal court proceeding is sufficiently onerous that its just smarter to pay up.
I have seen this happen at a former client, and recently declined an engagement with a prospective client because they just been raided by the feds and the BSA. There are too many good clients out there to bother getting associated with known bootleggers. (And if they cheat on their licenses, there's a good chance that they'll try to jerk us around too. Or at least that's the way we view it.)
This is, on the one hand, a compelling argument for paying for licenses and using license monitoring software to ensure compliance. On the other hand, this can also be a compelling argument for free (open source, home-brewed, or abandonware) software.
This ad was one of the most disgusting things I have heard in a long time. The gist of the ad was "Do you want revenge on your employer? Phone us and report them as software pirates."
I promise that I'm not kidding or exaggerating here. The commercial actually states several times how much trouble you, the disgruntled employee, can get your boss in if they don't have good records of their software licenses.
Now, I believe that businesses should legitimately purchase software and track their licenses, but it's often difficult to know where ALL such things are at any given point in time. This clearly is intended as a scare tactic aimed at executives, since we all know that if you look hard enough, you can probably find something that some employee brought in from home on a company computer.
Estimated PCs Purchased = a
Office suites Purchased = b
% of pirated software = (a-b)/b
So, they count every PC, whether or not it's actually running an office suite. Hmmm. What about free (as in beer) software? Well, they apparently don't count it. So, they get these inflated figures, and scare everybody into giving them some sort of regulatory power.
Scary stuff.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
The Business Software Alliance might be able to investigate you for piracy, but only if you (a) have contracted with them to allow this, or (b) they can convince a judge that they have probable cause to believe you have comitted an offence.
This also applies to the Bavarian and the British Columbia Software Alliance, but may not be true of the Brest Software Alliance,, or anywhere else where the old French business codes apply. Perhaps Singapore?
davecb@spamcop.net
If they have to whip out the lawyers and you lose they'll show absolutely no mercy in an effort to make an example out of you. Remember, copyright violations have criminal penalties associated with them, so they can try to put people in jail on top of taking far more money than you would have had to pay had you just let them walk in and audit you. So, no, they technically can't but if you have half a wit of business sense, you'll just let them for fear of the consequences.
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This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
1.) Write a simple commercial application and attach a not so simple EULA. Make the application something useful for your target audience - perhaps an automatic evil EULA generator.
2.) Scan your web server logs for a download from microsoft.com or bsa.org of your "application."
3.) Demand an audit of Microsoft and / or the BSA. Use a network scanner to scan for your "application."
4.) Make them open holes in their firewall so you can remotely scan for and disable your "application."
4.) If they don't comply, call the Feds. Hey, its their rules.
It would be interesting to see their reaction with the situation reversed. I'm sure its no fun to be audited. Would they fight against this action in court and risk setting a precident against themselves?
This can be found at The Register in this story
A partial quote
Visitors to Glasgow Central Station yesterday were surprised to be confronted by a Ford Transit van with a small radar and rusty Sky satellite dish mounted on top. What was this apparition? Why, the BSA's latest weapon in the war against software-stealing scum.
A wise reader asked one of the "consultants" what exactly the dishes were able to do and was informed they could detect PCs running illegal software. When pushed a little further, she admitted the van was "just a dummy" but the BSA still had a fleet of the real things rushing around Scotland detecting and nabbing unsuspecting criminals.
I worked at an east-coast univerisity until this summer and they were audited by the BSA. Basically one of the colleges in the University was ratted-out by a disgruntled employee. Interestingly, they only wanted to audit the one college, not the whole university. After many meetings between both party's lawyers, the fine was announced. It was somewhere in the six-figure range, even after being appealed down. The upshot was that even though only the single college was audited, the university decided to self-audit the rest of the university. So you can tack on all those hidden adminstrative costs to the official fine. Yours truly was part of that audit, what a nightmare. I'm making sure that any non-free software is legit. That school really has to watch their step from here on as they're now on the BSA *hit-list.
For reference, if you are ever audited by the BSA, you'll need proof of ownership. That means an invoice, credit card statement, or any other piece of paper that establishes who you bought it from, payment form, vendor order number, and the quantity purchased. Lawyers love paper trails....
. . . and some other remedies, but the BSA overstates its clout and risk. The Copyright Act provides only an award of actual damages to the plaintiff, actual unjust enrichment to the defendant (probably close to the retail price of the software used), or at the election of the plaintiff, statutory damages, which is a jury-determined award of no less than $500 and no more than $20K per work infringed (arguably, depending upon facts, not the same as per copy used). A prevailing party can also get (and typically does) an award of attorney fees. In cases of willful infringement, a prevailing plaintiff can get an additional statutory award of up to $100k.
That being said, nothing permits BSA to fine anybody, or to get anything from anyone until a judge or jury makes an award. As to searching and seizure, the Copyright Act DOES provide for ex parte searches in some cases of known infringement, when the searches are warranted.
However, in some recent 6th Circuit cases, a court held that an illegal search or seizure can constitute a civil rights violation and various torts, and that the lawyers representing a plaintiff can share in liability jointly and severally with their clients. So, they better get it right.
If a plaintiff does sue, however, they will ultimately be able to get complete discovery, which will likely include a tour of premesis and right to view computers on-site.
In short, BSA has a lot of clout, unless a defendant is prepared to defend himself. And this clout (threat of suit, threat of statutory damages, threat of attorney fees, threat of ex parte search and seizure and threat of being nasty) is what they use to justify their fine.
There are, however, counter-tactics that may be taken. Filing an action of your own, and making an appropriate offer of judgment can be used to create the possibility of an award of fees for a defendant, when the plaintiff wins but doesn't get their "fine" from the jury. If an ex parte search is unlawful, the defendants can seek remedies as well.
Whether any of these counter-tactics are available, or if available, advisable depends upon specific facts. You should always consult with counsel who has considered your specific case before making any decisions.
The BSA is not a government agency. They do not have the power to come on your premises without your permission. They cannot use guns and cops to force their way in if you don't let them. They cannot confiscate any of your equipment without a court/government order.
All they can do is file a lawsuit, like anyone else can. So when is industry going to file a suit against the BSA for harrasment?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
they have hired thugs for that. Officially the thugs are called 'federal marshalls'; unofficially, they are hired guns who work for major corporations that contribute to major politicians.
It's like this: Bill goes to Al Bush, and explains how all these people are robbing him and that because of that, he may not have money to contribute to the next campaign or sponsor the conference in $PLUSH_VACATION_SPOT. Al Bush then appoints a couple BSA people as special agents and sends them out with a few of the regularly armed boys. They knock on your door with a warrant and proceed to confiscate everything you have to stay in business.
Remember the golden rule. The BSA will always act in a legal way, because it is so easy for them to change the definition of 'legal'.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
The Business Software Alliance can almost certainly scrounge up one unhappy ex-employee in every large company on the planet. If they awarded "bounties" they could probably even get happy current employees. For example, let's say that they offered potential witnesses a reward of 33% of all monies recovered in a successful investigation. With the right employer that could be worth a big fat pile of cash.
Commercial software houses have their users by the short hairs, and things are just now starting to get interesting. With UCITA's remote termination, increased pressure from the BSA, and the push towards ASPs and pay-by-the-hour software the "freedom" offered by Free Software is looking more attractive all of the time.
Can they raid your offices? No.
Can they forcibly audit your records or systems? Not without first filing a lawsuit, and then only as part of the discovery process-- which can be very invasive.
Can they levy a fine against you for alleged infractions? Sure. They can do this with or without evidence.
Are you obligated to pay the fine? No. Unless the fine is, in fact, a damages award resulting from a trial or settlement of a lawsuit.
Can they do something awful to you if you refuse to pay the fine or comply with the audit? That depends. I'd personally rather not go to court over this.
Why? Wouldn't this get thrown out in most jurisdictions unless there was strong evidence (i.e. someone has snitched) of wrongdoing? Yes. But the BSA and its members could very legitimately refuse to sell you any further software or licenses. They could also block your IPs from their download sites. You don't have a Constitutional right to buy their software. They can refuse your business.
But this is insane, isn't there something we can do? Yes. Don't buy software that is not Free.
I do not have a signature
Two quick points:
1) BSA is hedging their bets in case anyone wants to audit them... their web-site runs FreeBSD/Apache according to Netcraft
2) On their home page they mention Software Piracy costing the Global Economy over 10 billion dollars. Where do they get this number? Isn't this irrational, since usually, any money saved in one sector, is most likely going to be spent in another (new car, bigger house, nicer clothes). Okay, I *MIGHT* buy it if they said that it was costing the Global Software companies over 10B, although I'd still like to know where they are getting their numbers, but they don't say that. They say Piracy is hurting the Global Economy. Fine... prove it. Can they break thier numbers apart per country? Per Company? And how does the availability of software affect the "Global Economy" also? If for instance a Chinese shoe manufacturing plant is able to be productive and turn out more shoes (and thus in turn have more units that are sold) wouldn't this balance the 3 copies of MS Office 95 that they are using illegally? At least politicians try to lie believably. The BSA's "Global Economy" seems (to me at least) to reak of Marketspeak.
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