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Can the BSA Investigate Your office for Piracy?
Kool Moe was the first of several to note that the BSA is sending letters to companies saying they're offering a 'software truce' until December 1st... From the letter: "If your company takes steps to be sure they're fully compliant with all software licenses, the BSA will not fine you should they find you were not compliant previous to this date. If not, all bets are off and if the BSA finds you in violation, you could "face penalities totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars." The question is of course, can the BSA just come into your office and look? Is this a scare tactic? I'm definitely no expert since almost all of my stuff is free.
If the BSA has grounds, they will obtain a search warrant and will be accompanied to your premises by US Marshalls. This happened to a company I worked for about 14 years ago. A disgruntled employee notified the BSA that we were not in compliance with software licensing. They sent the obligatory letter, which we ignored, then they showed up with the Marshalls. We were effectively shut down for 4 days while they conducted their search.
There's a simple solution to this...
Kill any disgruntled or soon-to-be disgruntled employee.
Employees who resign will find themselves on an island where giant white baloons scurry around the place.
There's a great TV commercial in this. Do any of the Linux startups have any money left?
When the BSA guy shows up, I'd talk for a few minutes, ask him what it's about... then signal security to come in with guns drawn. Get it all on videotape, and call the police with the BSA guy in the room, and videotaped... "Sir, someone showed up at our business making demands that sound like extortion. He is trespassing, and when we declined to become his next victim, we were afraid that he would become violent. Our security has him detained, but frankly we're all very scared. There is also the possibility that he is impersonating law enforcement, you'd have to listen to his deranged story. Please come quickly."
Stores do not have the right to search you. Say 'no' and leave. I do this all the time -- and I'm entirely honest. I don't steal things, I just refuse to be searched. They can't do a damn thing about it.
:-)
The only stores that CAN search you are ones that make membership contingent on you being searched -- I believe they make you sign forms to get the membership. (I am specifically thinking of Costco.) I am thinking that this may be something you could fight, but it would probably be a big scene.
But in any non-membership retailer, just say no and walk out. You're doing everyone a favor.
Don't give up your rights voluntarily to 'be nice' -- if everyone does that they disappear!
I've always wondered something: In an employment environment where techies can get a new job by turning into a different driveway in the morning, why do people continue to work for tyrants? How come your ex-boss' company still has employees? And even more to the point, how come none of them have turned him in to the BSA?
This is ridiculous. Although I do not even agree with that policy, it didn't even fall under it. The guy was not openly professing homosexuality on campus. He was being perfectly "normal". What happened was that his picture was taken at a gay rights parade, and published in a newspaper. The BSA saw this photo, and fired him.
Today, I hear a lot of people complaining about gay pride parades and such, saying something along the lines of this: "I don't care what you do or like, just keep it to yourself!" This is wrong. Twenty or thirty years ago, this is exactly what was happening. People were just keeping it to themselves. No problem, right? No problem until someone finds out about it, cans your ass, and gets you blacklisted.
This is why the whole gay rights movement started. To get it into national attention and to get people to recognize that it is "normal" and that people shouldn't get fired or blacklisted over their sexual orientation.
(To save you some time: No, I'm not gay.)
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Can you even play MP3s on that thing?
I'm not too terribly worried about the Boy Scouts of America checking to see whether I've stolen software.
Don't post on slashdot. Get back to work.
So tell me a little bit about this duel boot system you propose. Do the two operating systems fight it out when you power the computer on, and the stronger of the two gets to run?
What if you run a home business? Could the BSA fine you if other computers in your house are running unlicenced software??? Would it be concidered an invasion of privacy?
So let me get this right:
The troop of *Boy Scouts of America* is going to ride into my office on *British Small Arms* motorcycles equipped with *British Small fireArms* to validate my software on my *Beige Small Application* server?
Hm. how many more ways can I use BSA other than their original intention?
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
I can just picture a bunch of jack-booted-thugs with little microsoft logos on their jackets slithering down black nylon ropes from building rooftops and popping in the windows of offices around the country to run the filedrawers and poke around on everybody's drives to look for pirate copies of office or whatever.
If they show up at my house/office/wherever, I'll beat them to death with an old UNIX manual in a laundry bag (sort of a geek's blackjack...).
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
Just a few years ago, the Boy Scouts of America managed to prohibit homosexuals from being scoutmasters, and now they are into software piracy investigations! Will wonders never cease...
Matt Barnson
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Does anyone have the URL for the case where Microsoft lost a piracy case because they were illegally investigating someone's computer files?
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
Company executives need to be informed that they should seek the advice of an attorney immediately.
They should never allow an instant audit. But they should do an audit themselves as soon as the jackboots leave.
blessings,
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
When I was 16 or 17, I pirated Photoshop. Do you know how much Photoshop costs? Do you think I would've ever bought it had I not been able to pirate it?
Having pirated Photoshop, I began using it. I got familiar with it. Then, I got pretty good with it. A company offers me a job as a graphics designer. What software do you think I will ask for? How likely do you think it is that the company will not pay for the Photoshop license?
(By the way, this is only an example. I couldn't do graphics design if you put a gun to my head.)
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Can you even play MP3s on that thing?
No, it was the Police. Granted, it was the MPAA who asked the police to do so, in exactly the same you you can turn your neighbor in for smoking pot. The problem isn't that the MPAA are assholes. There's lots of assholes out there. The problem is that the government of most nations has become thugs for hire, and are little distinguished from a mafia protection racket.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I wonder if in accepting the user agreement you have already given the right to search
Don't agree to such agreements! If you "click through" in order to use such software, then complain about it... You are just as bad as those people who buy a house next to an airport then complain about the noise.
99% of the legal problems in the software realm can be solved by getting rid of these bogus agreements. If a license is supposed to be a contract, then get an explicit agreement between the two parties. It doesn't matter if it's the GPL or the EULA, let's see a signature before you sue on the basis of an "agreement".
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
If all your office software (Operating systems, productivity software, etc) is free, the license is owned by you, or you specificaly contracted someone to use that software (not an off the shelf product), then chances are good that you will have no problems, even with a raid, which is highly unlikely. The biggest issue with WinXX operating systems is the ability and somewhat necessesity to install a copy of the software on every machine that is required to use it. If I want to be able to edit a word document on any system, I need to install Word/Office on every system, even if 99.999% of the time I will only be using it on one computer. Unless I want to go through with the hassle of installing/deleting the software every time I plan to use it I am technically in violation. If you're using a workstation/server based model, such as using exported X displays on a linux system, then you install the software once on the server and even if the software has a limited site license, that license will be enforced by the software itself. It doesn't matter how many different places I can access the software from, if I only use it from one or two locations at a time, I simply purchase a license for that many simultanious instances of the program and the problem is solved. I get the flexibility, the software company gets fairly compensated. Another issue is there is a TON of software for windows while off the shelf products for linux and other UNIX based operatins systems are rare. Sometimes this is used as a negative, but in this case its quite positive to avoid copyright infringement issues. If I'm running linux on 100% of my systems, unless I'm running wine, vmware or some other emulator, I can safely say that I'm not running ANY software that works on a microsoft operating system. This almost eliminates the possibility of piracy, accidental or otherwise. Even linux software that is not free is usually distributed free for personal use or under some type of temporary trial license. For instance, Realserver for Linux, which costs a HUGE chunk of cash for a large operation, is free to use for less than 25 simultanious connections. One last reason for using a unix based OS is that your employees are less likely to bring stuff from home to run on "their" computer. You won't be affected by the next Melissa VBS "virus". Consider this. -Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Actually, this is an excellent case for ensuring that all your employees ONLY use open source software, or worst case, if you have to use licensed software, that you not allow employees to install whatever they want on their systems. Otherwise, the company may end having to pay for 100 copies of Quake3 that the developers installed on their workstations, amongst other things. It sucks, but hey, this is what happens when you have organizations like the BSA around. Don't these guys realize this just further strengthens the case for only using free software?
Frankly, I would just ensure that my operation was only using free software, and not do business with companies that support these jack-booted thug like tactics of the BSA. I don't care what their argument is, you simply do not play cop with your customers. Its BAD for business. As a business owner and a customer, I simply would not, and will not, stand for this sort of nonsense and we would never shake our customers down like this - if we ever wanted to do business with them again.
From now on, we're going to ask our vendors if they are part of the BSA and insist that if they are, that they sign a contract with us that precludes them from disrupting our operations with this sort of nonsense. And if they won't sign it, then we're taking our business elsewhere. I suggest others do the same. I intimately understand what is behind the BSA's arguments, but their methods are unacceptable IMHO.
In all my years with many software and hardware companies, we never had to resort to these scare tactics, or worse yet calling in the feds on our customers. We simply did business with companies that were willing to pay for our software, and we didn't worry about the ones that didn't. What company in their right mind would want to use software from Vendor X in the future if they had been treated like this?
Python
Python
Can they fine you? Sure. *I* can fine you!
But only a court can force the issue.
but since you would be in violation of (what I consider bad) laws if they were able to get enough info on you to go to the right law enforcement agency and that law enforcement agency were able to get a warrant based on any info they might have then that law enforcement agency *would* be able to inspect your stuff. This could of course get messy very quickly and IMO anybody who thinks that have law enforcement digging around on your machines would not be a bad thing is a idiot because once they go through the trouble to get a warrant and do it they WILL find something. The best thing to do is of course to go free as in speech.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Things have gotten out of hand and the BSAs behavior is a symptom, IMHO, of how out of wack copyright and other IP laws are.
Python
Python
Unless
:-)
a) They are a government agency with some sort of enforcement powers
or
b) They are mentioned explicitly in a company's site license, as an inspector to ensure software legitimacy
Otherwise they have no grounds to actually turn up and demand entrance.
Unless, of course, they claim that they are in "hot pursuit", attempting to make a citizen's arrest
IANAL(BMDI)
I Am Not A Lawyer (But My Dad Is)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
I sure hope they don't find out I'm using a pirated copy of Red Hat.
They can litigate, and cost you more in legal fees than the price of the software. Then the State/FBI gets a warrant and searches your systems, and if you are guilty, you're made to pay.
Just like the MPAA and the RIAA, the members of the BSA are cutting the branch whereupon they sit. They are alienating their consumers, and trying to make a buck quick, since they KNOW that they are on their way out. The simple solution to this problem is to switch to Free Software.
Yeah, yeah.. Free Software is only Free if your time is worthless.. Well, what is the TCO of Commercial Software: purchase, upkeep and license management included? How about we add the potential of litigation to that cost? Still cheaper than Free software?
Can you imagine what an Iron Fist they would have if there were NO free alternatives? I can see it now: Terminator 95 - the new Microsoft Pictures movie in which Bill Gates goes back in time to kill RMS and Linus comming to a DVD near you!
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
A disgruntled student turned in my High School in 1998 for allegedly having more installs of software than we had licenses for. The BSA sent a certified letter stating that we had to do a full audit and prove we had licenses for everything or they would come in and raid us, that non-complience was enough evidence for a search warrant, etc, etc. Our lawyers seemed to agree that it was within their rights. Luckily, we had all the licenses, but I don't think that is quite legal. I can see the FBI doing that, but this is a private company. Seems like this is a great way to "get even" with someone, because even if they are licensed, it takes many, many, many hundreds of hours of work, even for a school with 120 computers.
-mark
-mark
If your computer says LINUX, run...computers can't talk! [unless you have text-speech software]
Slashdot: not quite a DDoS, but the next best thing.
They can't get a warrant, but what they can get is every bit as invasive as that. What they will do is present evidence to a federal district court judge at an ex parte hearing (meaning you won't be there) that suggests that there is evidence of copyright infringement on the premises and that if you are forewarned, you will be able to remove said evidence. The basis for the request might well be affidavits from disgruntled ex employees. If they are successful, the BSA will be given a court order which allows them to enter your place, accompanied by either US Marshalls or the local constabulatory, and to sieze computers, disks, etc. that might hold evidence of infringement, but which will definitely shut your business down and publically embarrass the company. Faced with a choice of having those things happen, your boss will probably elect to have them in to search without going through those steps.
Isaac
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yes--the BSA can raid your office. Here's how it works.
The BSA actively advertises for disgruntled employees or former employees to turn in companies that cheat on their license agreements. When they get a complaint they typically attempt to substantiate the allegation (that is, is the source of the complaint credible as a witness?). The process is quite similar to ascertaining the credibility of an informant by the police. We'll get to the reason why below.
If the BSA thinks there is something to the case, they will send a scary letter from the lawyers--we have reason to believe you are in violation of license agreements, etc. The letter will ask the company to "voluntarily" permit the BSA to come and audit the company's network to determine whether or not the company is in violation of license agreements.
If the company agrees to a "voluntary" inspection, the BSA shows up, installs a network app that scans the network for software from the BSA membership, and totals up the number of copies. They then ask the company to document purchases of all of the copies on the network--and they bill the company for the retail price of any copies that cannot be documented. Full retail can be a pretty stiff price to pay--but most companies figure that full retail is cheap compared to the cost of fighting the BSA in court. If the company pays up, the case ends.
If the company ignores the first scary letter, they get a second scary letter from the BSA lawyers. That is much more direct, and to the point. If the company agrees, the same "volutary" inspection happens.
But let's suppose that the company ignores the scary letters. If you've watched a videotape recently you will note that videotapes sold in the U.S. include a warning that copyright infringement is punishable under federal law, and is investigated by the FBI. Federal law permits private individuals (including corporations and associations) to gather evidence of a crime and present it to the feds for them to pursue. The BSA's initial complaint, buttressed by a "good faith" effort to enlist the company cooperation (that is, the first and second scary letters), is regarded by the FBI as justification for a warrant. (That's why the BSA evaluates the credibility of the complaint--that's a key part of the request for a federal warrant.) The FBI and/or the U.S. Marshals, with the BSA, arrive--unannounced--at the company site, with a federal warrant.
When they enter the premises they will serve the warrant, and they will announce, loudly, that everyone in the premises must stand up and step away from their keyboards immediately. These people are feds--they carry guns. They mean business. And they are serious. If this happens where you work, by all means, stand up, and step away from your keyboard. Do not try to be a hero for your employer and attempt to delete the 3000 bootleg copies of Leisure Suit Larry that you know are distributed across the enterprise. They can 'cuff you and arrest you.
Once the feds have "secured" the scene, the BSA people step up and install their network spy application to identify all the software on the network that doesn't have a license. If they find any (and they almost certainly will) they and the feds will propose a settlement: pay full retail, plus a whopping fine (like $1500 per copy) for each bootleg copy found. Or, face criminal prosecution by the FBI for copyright infringement--followed by a civil court action for damages after the criminal case is finished. Any company with half a brain (or anything resembling a competent lawyer) is going to cave and pay the "settlement". The cost (and the adverse publicity) of a criminal court proceeding is sufficiently onerous that its just smarter to pay up.
I have seen this happen at a former client, and recently declined an engagement with a prospective client because they just been raided by the feds and the BSA. There are too many good clients out there to bother getting associated with known bootleggers. (And if they cheat on their licenses, there's a good chance that they'll try to jerk us around too. Or at least that's the way we view it.)
This is, on the one hand, a compelling argument for paying for licenses and using license monitoring software to ensure compliance. On the other hand, this can also be a compelling argument for free (open source, home-brewed, or abandonware) software.
but, doesn't the "Innocent uptil proven guilty" concept only apply to criminal cases.
Except that this is treated as a criminal case. If it wasn't do you think US federal law enforcement would have anything to do with this? The standard answer of police (of all kinds) in a civil matter is "get a lawyer".
10 Billion in the GLOBAL economy is a mere drop in the ocean.It's not even that impressive if it were just applied to the USA... Sounds as lot less impressive expressed as 1.6 USD per person.
Why this sounds like you're criticizing Microsoft's manuals. How unfair! Microsoft's OS manuals are excellent and thorough. For example the OEM copy of Windows 98 that came with my laptop included, at no additional charge, four thick books, including the 1300 page User's Guide, the 900 page Complete Guide to the Registry, and the 650 page Programmer's Addendum; the best part of that last was the plenitude of source code examples, to help users who might be inclined to use DEBUG to whip out a quick utility... Of course that can't compare with the comprehensive boxed set of hardbound manuals, and the ten-disc set of source code CDs, which came free with my copy of NT...
What? You mean you didn't get these manual sets with your copies of MS's fine OSes? Something must be wrong! Perhaps. in violation of their licensing agreement with MS, your OEM short changed you? I think you should call the BSA and complain.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
I have found in the past that software companies don't usually bother checking local laws when putting together licenses and related material.
:)
If they are smart they put a clause in to the effect that "If any of this isn't legal then the rest still stands".
They count on a lack of legal knowledge among their customers.
This behaviour is hardly unique to software companies. It wouldn't surprise me if the companies know full well some of their conditions have no legal standing what so ever.
German courts for instance ruled that any agreement or license that was not shown on the outside of a box when buying software (ie. couldn't be read before purchasing) was not legal. Likewise, most limited warranties are not applicable in Holland simply because they interfere with Dutch consumer laws.
No doubt such things continue to exist, written in German and Dutch. And will probably continue to exist even after the vast majority of people know full well they are nonsense.
Except some kind of FUD to prevent all software used in the EU being purchased in Germany
Nothing to fear? NTF my ass!
I'm Number 2 on the I/S totem pole at a 40-employee company. We provide claims and H/R management expertise to a number of regional clients. We're not Fortune 1000.
However, that didn't stop an ex-tech from installing a bunch of unlicensed software, getting fired and then ratting us out to the BSA! Didn't matter that HE was the one responsible for the violations in the first place!
We're still working on compliancy and have, since the initial BSA notification, installed a Software Licensing person.
I remember when the CEO asked me to do an inventory for "this BSA group" that I thought it was some minor deal. One website visit later I was having flashbacks of SPA raids...that I heard about...from somebody...at another company...
GTRacer
- GT3 is delayed? Great! Get it right this time!
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
...because the BSA have no f*cking rights to do it.
They can't search my home or office because they will never get a search warrant. Can I search your home?
They can't fine me because they're not the police. Can I fine you?
They can't judge me because they're not the DoD. Can I send you to prison?
The BSA is just a subsidiary of M$ and friends. They have no official law enforcement mission. All they can do is threaten you or ask the real cops to get you.
BTW, fp!
____________________
Ni!
It's all for our safety/protection/the children, so what are you complaining about? Remember the terrorist bombing/shooting/robbery or Flight 880/Denny's/Flight 007?
Fight Spammers!
This ad was one of the most disgusting things I have heard in a long time. The gist of the ad was "Do you want revenge on your employer? Phone us and report them as software pirates."
I promise that I'm not kidding or exaggerating here. The commercial actually states several times how much trouble you, the disgruntled employee, can get your boss in if they don't have good records of their software licenses.
Now, I believe that businesses should legitimately purchase software and track their licenses, but it's often difficult to know where ALL such things are at any given point in time. This clearly is intended as a scare tactic aimed at executives, since we all know that if you look hard enough, you can probably find something that some employee brought in from home on a company computer.
The one remaining affluent market that is not yet saturating is Europe, but as a whole Europeans are much more open to free alternatives to expensive commercial software.
As well as laws in Europe being less friendly to the sort of stuff that software companies like to put in their licences in the first place.
With the BSA going into scare and thug tactics, I think it might be to our interests to start reading those stupid EULAs that every program comes with.
You need someone who knows the law well enough to be able to strike out the bits which don't actually apply. Unless you are in Germany where a thick marker pen can do the job...
I think that this whole statement by the BSA represents THREAT and EXTORTION. Too bad no one will get a lawyer and file a class action against the BSA for this.
Probably better for several "somebodies" to file separate suits. Class action suits can help the defendant, in that they only need one set of lawyers...
Estimated PCs Purchased = a
Office suites Purchased = b
% of pirated software = (a-b)/b
So, they count every PC, whether or not it's actually running an office suite. Hmmm. What about free (as in beer) software? Well, they apparently don't count it. So, they get these inflated figures, and scare everybody into giving them some sort of regulatory power.
Scary stuff.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
And shame on you for your bad grammer God of all that is Taco.
Here is the official anti-piracy website in Italian.. couldn't find it in english
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The Business Software Alliance might be able to investigate you for piracy, but only if you (a) have contracted with them to allow this, or (b) they can convince a judge that they have probable cause to believe you have comitted an offence.
This also applies to the Bavarian and the British Columbia Software Alliance, but may not be true of the Brest Software Alliance,, or anywhere else where the old French business codes apply. Perhaps Singapore?
davecb@spamcop.net
If they have to whip out the lawyers and you lose they'll show absolutely no mercy in an effort to make an example out of you. Remember, copyright violations have criminal penalties associated with them, so they can try to put people in jail on top of taking far more money than you would have had to pay had you just let them walk in and audit you. So, no, they technically can't but if you have half a wit of business sense, you'll just let them for fear of the consequences.
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This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
On the way out, they have absolutely no right to deny you the right to leave unless they're willing to place you under citizen's arrest with probable cause. As stated before -- refusal to be searchde is not probable cause.
If they don't have probable cause (as mentioned in a previous post), then all that they can do in response to a refusal to be searched is to ask you to leave (job done). If they try to stop you from leaving (short of a formal arrest), then it's called 'illegal confinement'. If they touch you in the process, you can probably add assault, and any assortment of civil and criminal complaints (talk to your lawyer on this). There's a reason why the stores responded in the way they did in a previous post that addressed this issue head-on.
`ø,,ø`ø,,ø!
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
> The Business Software Alliance can almost certainly scrounge up one unhappy ex-employee in every large company on the planet.
If they found one at Microsoft, do you think they'd listen to him? Then again . . .
``Uh, Steve, it came to our attention that since you don't have a site license for your software, & we found three hundred copies of Windows 2000 without a license in your Redmond offices. You're gonna get sued for software piracy."
``What??? We own the &%$!! software!!! Are you stupid???"
``Steve, if we could have passed the IQ tests, we would have jobs as real police officers."
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Yes, my bad. Clearly commercial != closed source, and it is closed source commercial vendors that are holding their customers hostage. I have got nothing against commercial vendors that release their source code. In fact, I encourage them (by purchasing distributions instead of downloading them).
1.) Write a simple commercial application and attach a not so simple EULA. Make the application something useful for your target audience - perhaps an automatic evil EULA generator.
2.) Scan your web server logs for a download from microsoft.com or bsa.org of your "application."
3.) Demand an audit of Microsoft and / or the BSA. Use a network scanner to scan for your "application."
4.) Make them open holes in their firewall so you can remotely scan for and disable your "application."
4.) If they don't comply, call the Feds. Hey, its their rules.
It would be interesting to see their reaction with the situation reversed. I'm sure its no fun to be audited. Would they fight against this action in court and risk setting a precident against themselves?
This can be found at The Register in this story
A partial quote
Visitors to Glasgow Central Station yesterday were surprised to be confronted by a Ford Transit van with a small radar and rusty Sky satellite dish mounted on top. What was this apparition? Why, the BSA's latest weapon in the war against software-stealing scum.
A wise reader asked one of the "consultants" what exactly the dishes were able to do and was informed they could detect PCs running illegal software. When pushed a little further, she admitted the van was "just a dummy" but the BSA still had a fleet of the real things rushing around Scotland detecting and nabbing unsuspecting criminals.
Man, I would sure hate that. My parts are my parts and they shouldn't investigate them!
But I think we should all stand up and tell the BSA we don't want our private parts investigated!
Or, maybe metal detectors because of the Oklahoma bombing? Yes, a metal detector would have stopped them from driving a truck into the building.
Why not require everyone to travel nude, so they can't hide anything?
Fight Spammers!
Legally, in the US, the 4th amendment to the constitution grants everyone protection from unwarranted searches and seizures. They would need to be a law enforcement officer (which they are not) WITH a search warrant (which they won't have either) to be able to force a company to show them their software licenses. And that over-rides any click-wrap EULA crap on the software (no matter how evil and draconian it might be).
Theoretically, a law enforcement officer "in hot pursuit" would be able to perform search and seizure without a search warrant before hand. But I don't see that as a possibility with software licenses.
No, it's just another big-business and/or big-business crony trying to quietly slip you under their domination, they love trying to do that when you're not watching.
I worked at an east-coast univerisity until this summer and they were audited by the BSA. Basically one of the colleges in the University was ratted-out by a disgruntled employee. Interestingly, they only wanted to audit the one college, not the whole university. After many meetings between both party's lawyers, the fine was announced. It was somewhere in the six-figure range, even after being appealed down. The upshot was that even though only the single college was audited, the university decided to self-audit the rest of the university. So you can tack on all those hidden adminstrative costs to the official fine. Yours truly was part of that audit, what a nightmare. I'm making sure that any non-free software is legit. That school really has to watch their step from here on as they're now on the BSA *hit-list.
For reference, if you are ever audited by the BSA, you'll need proof of ownership. That means an invoice, credit card statement, or any other piece of paper that establishes who you bought it from, payment form, vendor order number, and the quantity purchased. Lawyers love paper trails....
Can they do this ? I think it all depends in which country you are ie. what laws apply.
I am pretty sure though they will need a warrant for this and they will have to be able to show some proof that the warrant is justified beforehand. I've seen large newspaper ads here in Holland a while back, saying that they "would be coming to your business to check your licenses soon" without mentioning this fact. I think they might rely on ppl being intimidated into allowing them to enter the company's or persons premises to investigate thus circumventing the need for a warrant. I for one wouldn't let them near anything without a warrant, if only for the fact that this is the proper procedure. I might have some confidential material on my pc's when they come to "check my licenses" and i couldn't justify just letting them peep at this stuff without a legal obligation. Does anyone know how often they are able to get a warrant and on what grounds ?
I have found in the past that software companies don't usually bother checking local laws when putting together licenses and related material. They count on a lack of legal knowledge among their customers. German courts for instance ruled that any agreement or license that was not shown on the outside of a box when buying software (ie. couldn't be read before purchasing) was not legal. Likewise, most limited warranties are not applicable in Holland simply because they interfere with Dutch consumer laws.
Does anyone have any direct experience with this ?
beauty is only a light switch away
Whatever happened to being presumed innocent until proven guilty? Why should the companies have to prove that their software is legal? BSA should have to provide concrete evidence that the software is pirated, not just raid someone based on a "hot tip".
. . . and some other remedies, but the BSA overstates its clout and risk. The Copyright Act provides only an award of actual damages to the plaintiff, actual unjust enrichment to the defendant (probably close to the retail price of the software used), or at the election of the plaintiff, statutory damages, which is a jury-determined award of no less than $500 and no more than $20K per work infringed (arguably, depending upon facts, not the same as per copy used). A prevailing party can also get (and typically does) an award of attorney fees. In cases of willful infringement, a prevailing plaintiff can get an additional statutory award of up to $100k.
That being said, nothing permits BSA to fine anybody, or to get anything from anyone until a judge or jury makes an award. As to searching and seizure, the Copyright Act DOES provide for ex parte searches in some cases of known infringement, when the searches are warranted.
However, in some recent 6th Circuit cases, a court held that an illegal search or seizure can constitute a civil rights violation and various torts, and that the lawyers representing a plaintiff can share in liability jointly and severally with their clients. So, they better get it right.
If a plaintiff does sue, however, they will ultimately be able to get complete discovery, which will likely include a tour of premesis and right to view computers on-site.
In short, BSA has a lot of clout, unless a defendant is prepared to defend himself. And this clout (threat of suit, threat of statutory damages, threat of attorney fees, threat of ex parte search and seizure and threat of being nasty) is what they use to justify their fine.
There are, however, counter-tactics that may be taken. Filing an action of your own, and making an appropriate offer of judgment can be used to create the possibility of an award of fees for a defendant, when the plaintiff wins but doesn't get their "fine" from the jury. If an ex parte search is unlawful, the defendants can seek remedies as well.
Whether any of these counter-tactics are available, or if available, advisable depends upon specific facts. You should always consult with counsel who has considered your specific case before making any decisions.
Here is how things go along in Mauritius where software is heavily pirated and used in commerce.
A friend of mine turned in a cybercafe owner because he refused to pay his wages and did some other evil things to him.
He went to a Microsoft office, and met a guy in charge of Piracy. He was advised to contact their lawyer, and he signed an official 'turning in' paper. Because the cybercafe owner was also selling computers will pirated versions of windows pre-installed, the lawyer sent someone to the shop who really BOUGHT a computer to check whether pirated software is really being delivered and to use this as evidence.
After a few days, the lawyer, a guy from the BSA, an independent technician, and members of the local police raided the place and confiscated nearly everything. The owner gave the lamest excuse of all: he was the victim of a theft and the robbers stole all his licenses!!!
In addition to running a cybercafe with pirated software and selling computers with pirated software, the owner was also detained for giving computer courses on pirated versions of Novell.
My friend was rewarded a few weeks after with a good sum of money.
Remember that its not straightforward, people dont just enter the BSA office and say "Hey, ABC company is using pirated software and the BSA people come rushing in with the police"
Remember, the BSA officials are NOT law enforcement agents. They do NOT have the right to come search your office, unaccompanied by the police and they won't and yes, a search warrant is required, at least where I live.
Dont put your employer in an embarassing situation. Dont use pirated software at office ok?
Maybe he sucks but you get your salary from him.
The BSA is not a government agency. They do not have the power to come on your premises without your permission. They cannot use guns and cops to force their way in if you don't let them. They cannot confiscate any of your equipment without a court/government order.
All they can do is file a lawsuit, like anyone else can. So when is industry going to file a suit against the BSA for harrasment?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
they have hired thugs for that. Officially the thugs are called 'federal marshalls'; unofficially, they are hired guns who work for major corporations that contribute to major politicians.
It's like this: Bill goes to Al Bush, and explains how all these people are robbing him and that because of that, he may not have money to contribute to the next campaign or sponsor the conference in $PLUSH_VACATION_SPOT. Al Bush then appoints a couple BSA people as special agents and sends them out with a few of the regularly armed boys. They knock on your door with a warrant and proceed to confiscate everything you have to stay in business.
Remember the golden rule. The BSA will always act in a legal way, because it is so easy for them to change the definition of 'legal'.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
The BSA relies on employee (or ex-employee) snitches. Once they have an informant, they can either persuade a law enforcement agency to get a warrant or go the civil route and subpoena your records. I've also heard tell of licensing agreements that give the vendors permission to inspect your premises and computers 24/7 to make sure your software is legit. I'm sure the vendor could assign its inspection rights to the BSA. Of course, that begs the question of how they know you've got any of that software whose licensing agreement lets them do this.
Can they raid your offices? No.
Can they forcibly audit your records or systems? Not without first filing a lawsuit, and then only as part of the discovery process-- which can be very invasive.
Can they levy a fine against you for alleged infractions? Sure. They can do this with or without evidence.
Are you obligated to pay the fine? No. Unless the fine is, in fact, a damages award resulting from a trial or settlement of a lawsuit.
Can they do something awful to you if you refuse to pay the fine or comply with the audit? That depends. I'd personally rather not go to court over this.
Why? Wouldn't this get thrown out in most jurisdictions unless there was strong evidence (i.e. someone has snitched) of wrongdoing? Yes. But the BSA and its members could very legitimately refuse to sell you any further software or licenses. They could also block your IPs from their download sites. You don't have a Constitutional right to buy their software. They can refuse your business.
But this is insane, isn't there something we can do? Yes. Don't buy software that is not Free.
I do not have a signature
Two quick points:
1) BSA is hedging their bets in case anyone wants to audit them... their web-site runs FreeBSD/Apache according to Netcraft
2) On their home page they mention Software Piracy costing the Global Economy over 10 billion dollars. Where do they get this number? Isn't this irrational, since usually, any money saved in one sector, is most likely going to be spent in another (new car, bigger house, nicer clothes). Okay, I *MIGHT* buy it if they said that it was costing the Global Software companies over 10B, although I'd still like to know where they are getting their numbers, but they don't say that. They say Piracy is hurting the Global Economy. Fine... prove it. Can they break thier numbers apart per country? Per Company? And how does the availability of software affect the "Global Economy" also? If for instance a Chinese shoe manufacturing plant is able to be productive and turn out more shoes (and thus in turn have more units that are sold) wouldn't this balance the 3 copies of MS Office 95 that they are using illegally? At least politicians try to lie believably. The BSA's "Global Economy" seems (to me at least) to reak of Marketspeak.
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I live in Panama. we have a solid democracy and are very good at civil rights and all that. but the BSA actually storms into offices with judge orders and check computers, files, etc. they have penalized several high profile companies already with tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars (and we're talking offices of influential people or government officials as well as small companies)
we all know tha the main backer of BSA is microsoft (in the panama branch at least). So far they haven't broken any laws by doing what they do, they're just bullies at it....
oh, and they usually do it on friday at 4:50PM...
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