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Sun's (un)official response to .NET
siliconghetto writes "Sun decided that to post a response to .NET on it's Java home page. According to Madhu Siddalingaiah, "Microsoft is spinning [.Net] as innovative new platform but what they're really doing is giving developers an updated set of handcuffs."
"
Maybe they already have.
Microsoft.NYET
But Sun is missing the point. It's possible that they've gotten so miffed with the slow Java adaptation of Java that they view everything as a threat. .net is exactly what they say Microsoft 'claims' it to be, however - an enhancement to bring Visual Basic/C++ up to speed with modern times. It allows whichever language you're writing in to access all _windows_ API calls.
.net is the solution rather than Java. If you're a Netware Guru, for example, compare NWAdmin32 to ConsoleONE. (Win32 vs. Java) They do the same thing, but if all I had to use was ConsoleONE, I'd quickly go insane waiting for my P500 or higher to open a dialog box.
Sun's point, in the article is that Java allows you to access the same API calls, and they'll function on any machine imaginable, which is true. But if you're going to be programming FOR a Windows box (and, last time I checked, developing code to run native in an OS was still the way your program would run the fastest)
Perhaps I should change my login to slashdot to 'Devil's Advocate'. =) Java has it's niche, though. And it does what it was intended to do - make code HIGHLY transportable. But you can't outrun native code, no matter how good your universal language is.
...Microsoft is spinning [.Net] as innovative new platform but what they're really doing is giving developers an updated set of handcuffs...
:)
.NET is an effort to help traditional Visual C++ and Visual Basic programmers catch up with the times....
.NET platform as a whole will handed over a standards body, so standardization can only exist at the language level....
.Net. M$ has already given Corel the responsibility for building the Framework for Other OS's including Linux. Obviously it would be benefit them financially, but we are not tied down to one OS ultimately.
.Net framework over to other OS. I would believe it when I see it, but efforts are underway. So if you dont know what you are talking about then SHUT UP..and dont mislead poor tech junkies out there.
.NET platform must run on Windows, and Windows alone....
.NET is to perpetuate platform lock-in. ....
:)
....
Yeah Right.. The same one Java Developers wear
..Essentially,
Tell me whats wrong with that Bozo !!.. Both these languages has still a huge market share than anything else in the world. And most of the existing systems currently being ported and rewritten to other languages are developed in it. What Microsoft is doing is trying not to lose market share, and in turn come up with a Loosely coupled architecture for integrating and deploying heterogenous systems. Yup..Flame Me.
....There are no third party vendors of ASP+. In contrast there many vendors of JSPTM solutions for a variety of platforms...
First off all, JSP was a ripoff from ASP. ASP has a much bigger developer base and ASP developers has been crying for better features and thats where ASP+ comes in. Now ASP+ will use Visual Basic, C#, and possibly other languages for code snippets. All get compiled into native code through the common language runtime (as opposed to being interpreted each time, like ASPs). So you could mix and match languages and not be tied to Java alone.
...Microsoft has not suggested or even hinted that the
First of all, Sun doesnt work well with IBM or anyone else in opening up Java. Now they cry wolf when MS doesnt open up the Framework For
..The Java language, VM, and APIs are all vendor neutral. There is no vendor lock in....
Yeah right..except that you are locked in to one language who still dont deliver in terms of Portability.
.....The key difference is that the Java platform is a mature cross-platform solution with no direct ties to any underlying operating system.....
Where does this guy live ? Antartica ? Corel would work with M$ in porting the
...This means that any nontrivial application built on the
Tsk..tsk.. This guy just dont realise..does he..
...Apparently, the underlying goal of
Pure Unadulterated FUD.. No wonder since SUN sponsors this guy's Chopper Trips
....Sun is not the only vendor of the Java platform. IBM, Symantec, Apple, as well
Well didnt we all hear sometime back that these other vendors were planning to liberate Java from Sun ? tsk..tsk..
...Third parties have inspected the Java platform's publicly-available source code for security holes.....
True.. But Sun should rather worry about closing the holes in Sun Solaris 2.7 before they comment on Windoze.
Ultimately, no Interpreted language would ever handle a candle to something that compiles to native code. M$ is leveraging that to provide integration across heterogenous platforms through the CLR. Like it or not..its going to happen and thats what make sense.
My two cents.. Thanks for reading.
Rapid Nirvana
The early assessment is correct, and Madhu Siddalingaiah agrees: C# and CLR might be portable -- and sure, it's possible to port them to other operating systems -- but that would still be completely useless, because the .NET framework involves a lot of API's that are, and will be, only available on Windows. The core class libraries in Java, on the other hand, are available anywhere the Java runtime is available.
.NET framework is designed for this goal: "Write once (on a Windows machine), run anywhere (as long as it's a Windows machine)."
Make no mistake about it: the
Probably the only useful bit of "portability" the Microsoft CLR will achieve, is that it gives them a migration strategy for upcoming 64-bit Windows. It allows developers to write on Win32 and run on Win64. Oh, how portable!
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Umm... I guess I'm getting somewhat tired of people commenting on .Net without really taking a critical look at it.
.Net they can communicate together.
A core basis for it's existence is Cross-Platform support. Microsoft understands that companies do have multiple systems in their environments which need to work together.
Unlike Sun, Microsoft is not suggesting that you should write all your software using Java. Instead they are saying... write your software with whatever language you want and then using
Microsoft's goal is to have services which run on Win2k servers talking to services running on Mainframes or Unix servers.
This happens today, but you need to devise some custom solution to make them talk with each other. Microsoft is simply providing a generic framework for you, so you can focus instead on the solution details.
This sucks.. this is one discussion really close to home for me *and* I have moderator points today.
.NET CLR (take a look at ActiveState, they seem to be in bed with MS - there's a Python .NET beta ongoing right now).
.NET too. (Or maybe not, this might be pure FUD, but SOMEONE will do it, even if Rational drags their feet.)
;+)
Post or moderate? Post or moderate?
POST!
Don't like Java's (too low) level of abstraction? Tired of being stuck on Windows because of your employers obsession with VB?
Convert them to Python! They'll be happy how fast you get things done AND they'll love the easy portability to Linux, Solaris, Macs, etc.
It just makes sense. Today, I can even run Python in a JVM. I can run Python in the
If Microsoft never ports the CLR to OSs other than Windows, you STILL win.
Now, here's the kicker: Java will be available for
Now, observant people will point out that regardless of the fact that you would be using Python or Java, the fact that you're using it in a JVM or CLR naturally means you will use the libraries in those environments. And that's true. However, it's nothing a good designer couldn't mitigate to a large extent (not perfectly I know) using the GoF strategy pattern and other abstraction techniques. Furthermore, most of Python's standard libraries are already ported to the JVM. It's just a matter of time before they show up for the CLR too (and for Java too).
Also, learning both sets of libraries and both Java and Python will simply be good for your career. You'll honestly be able to claim multi-architectural proficiencies, from the comfort of a high-level development language (or at least a "higher-level" development language in the case of Java).
Now, anyone who can poke substantial holes in this will be doing me a favor. My general career direction in the near future will be Python/Java heavy because of my assumptions above.
Just to clarify something: I approach this purely as a corporate applications designer and developer. I have no interest in systems-level stuff, embedded systems, real-time systems, etc. Very little of the above even matters for those area (although there are embeddable versions of Python AND Java, as well as a hard real time version of Java).
Thanks in advance for your rabid attacks!
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!