Slashdot Mirror
Netscape 6.0 Released
Dave writes: "The first non-beta release of Netscape 6.0 has made its way onto the Netscape FTP server. The Windows, Linux and Mac versions are currently available. The version in the directory pointed to is a network installer. If you want to download all the files in one go then go into the 'sea' directory. However, for a more cutting edge browser then grab the latest nightly builds from Mozilla.org, the Mozillazine builds page tells you which nightly builds are worth downloading." And Mozilla doesn't draw the same standards-compliance critiques as Netscape 6.0 does, either.
You should download a nightly build... they are already faster and more stable than M18.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
The best reason to crash/freeze/segfault just got better!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Yeah, I've been using M18 (or nightly builds of it, actually) as my primary browser on Linux for a while now. It still doesn't have https support so I have to use Njetscape 4.7 to access ecommerce sites, but that's about the only thing I still use NS for.
Assumming you are running on either Windows, Solaris or Linux, you can 'Install PSM' from the 'Debug' Menu at the top of the screen. Scroll down the web page and click the appropriate button for your OS (or load the package in manually for Solaris). If all goes well, you should see the package load in and your should get a successful XPInstall message. It would be nice to see some more OS's supported - at least MacOS is pending and a BSD-compatible version and some for other Unix platforms and architectures would be nice. Maybe there is room for an OpenSource PSM project.
PSM is good enough that I've successfully ordered plane tickets using it, and can quite comfortably browse Sourceforge in SSL mode.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The directory appears to be empty. It's been up there for ages now as it is.
Frankly, I hope this isn't a sign of an impending release. NS6 is not ready. It needs another month; that's all it would take to fix the very few remaining standards bugs (need I remind some of you here that it doesn't even quite get DOM Level Zero right; even Netscape4 could do that).
----------
The last several milestones have all had major speed improvements.
Take a look at m9, and then take a look at m18. The progress is astounding, in that m18 is almost useful as a regular browser on my Pentium 233.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
>
> Clarence (Andreas M. Schneider) wrote:
>
[
> > Clarence wrote:
> > > ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/
]
> > Now "Permission denied" (before my download was complete).
>
> It took me several attempts, but at about 12:20 AM, I was able to grab
> all the components and install.
Be careful. We have not announced the product yet, and typically pre-push
various candidate builds just to test out the distribution mechanism and
site. What you got may not end up being the final bits.
I recommend that when the final bits are actually released you should
compare the date stamp in your user agent with someone who did download the
final bits and make sure they are the same. If they differ I'd recommend
re-installing the real release because the fixes we've accepted in the past
week have been really serious ones (security exploits and things of about
that level).
-Dan Veditz
(Dan works at NS)
--
The shareholder is always right.
And not just cutting edge - at the rate it's going, Mozilla is going to have more features than any application on earth, let alone any browser.
I wonder if it'll ever get out of beta!
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
From what I have seen, the newest string of Netscape software is still slower than its predecessor and less stable - despite definitely making improvements over the last few weeks. I wonder if the program is really ready to lose the beta tag, especially with widespread distribution of the Windows version to a public with high expectations. ISP's may be forced into doing tech support for a Netscape package that isn't fully ready for the average consumer's daily use.
Netscape has NOT "forked" from Mozilla. What they did was to *branch* temporarily from the Mozilla trunk so they could work on stability, documentation etc without worrying about the constantly changing trunk. During this process they fell a bit behind the trunk, which was expected and necessary.
Future (major) Netscape releases will be done the same way --- they will branch from the then-current Mozilla trunk, stabilise, and ship. Every good thing in Mozilla (except possibly some features that Netscape choose to deliberately exclude) will find its way into the next major Netscape release.
Read your /.
...or the mozilla site:
Mozilla.org Posts New Roadmap
mozilla development roadmap
--
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
No, this is just typical slashdot--somebody sees directories appear on Mozilla/Netscape's FTP site (weeks ahead of the actual release), starts making noise about "the next version is out!!!" and as usual slashdot makes posts about releases which won't be downloadable for weeks. Check back in a few weeks for NS6.
A couple of guys with pet peeves that didn't make the cut whining doesn't make "heavy criticism". Sure it's easy to have a superior browser if you never release it. Saying Mozilla is better than Netscape is mainly missing the point: Netscape shipping products is (mainly) what pays for continued Mozilla development. They complement one another. Mozilla will chug away indefinitely, (generally) improving slowly day by day. But it doesn't improve that fast: delaying the ship by a month would have made a better browser, no doubt. But then so would delaying by another, and another...
Looking back on the complaints, they look kind of silly: trying to stop the ship only a few days before release because the development team were only taking showstopper bugs. That's what you do when you're about two days away from shipping, guys.
Have a look at the W3C's CSS test pages. Where was the petition not to ship IE until it had proper CSS support? Sure, NN6 isn't perfect either but it does a hell of a lot better than IE; it's unreasonable to expect 100% quality before release.
www.ridiculopathy.com
We've all heard and read (and experianced in many cases) the recent batch of problems and critiques of this latest version of Netscape, and I really can't see there being any future in it at all. You've got IE on Windows platforms, and Mozilla on a whole raft of platforms, and the latest versions of these programs are much better than Netscape in almost every way. Why would you want Netscape?
And surely Netscape realised this a long time ago when they reorganised to become a portal rather than a browser seller? Their business plan flopped with the free release of Explorer, and they were snapped up by AOL. Why the attempt now to push Netscape on? Sure, I realise it's now based on Mozilla, but the fact that it misses out on a lot of the latest stuff from the Mozilla project means that it offers nothing at all over Mozilla.
If you're running on Windows, you're probably using IE. If you're running on Linux then you're probably running Mozilla or one of the other open source browsers (Galleon, Konquerer etc.). Who are they aiming this browser at? The branding is hardly going to convince people - they deserted Netscape in droves a long time ago on Windows, and the more canny people on Linux are all too aware of Netscape's flaws.
Is there any point to this release? I can't see one...
Jon Erikson, IT guru
This stuff should really be checked out before it's posted. It seems kind of lazy to make your readers correct this stuff for you.
I've been using the preview releases of NS6 for some time, and I've never been hugely impressed. Sure, theres all the usual standards (non)compliance issues, and theres that 'its-not-IE' look to it (could be a bonus if you're anti-MS). But what has killed Netscape for me is the lack of innovation.
Back in the old days of Version 3 browsers there was real difference between the options. IE was headed toward DHTML, and NS was going down the road of JavaScript. People complained bitterly about their sites not working on one browser or another, but they also managed to come up with some really cracking stuff.
These days theres little real innovation. If MS or NS come up with something cool that the other doen't support it gets labelled as 'proprietary'. And we never use 'proprietary' things because they're 'non-standard'. Its all well and good having the exact same standard XML parser, the exact same DHTML support, and the exact same JavaScript command set, but then you end up with two exact same browsers.
Standards are fantastic for the essentials. HTML made the WWW what it is today. But standards can often get in the way of the cool stuff.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Indeed, even the specification site admits that "MathML is not primarily intended for direct use by authors. While MathML is human-readable, in all but the simplest cases it is too verbose and error-prone for hand generation." This means: people will not write their publications in MathML. They will write their publications in TeX/LaTeX or some other program and publish the result as MathML.
From an authorship standpoint, MathML has the following serious shortcomings with respect to TeX/LaTeX:
- No support for macros or functions
- No support for internal citations (you can't cite a previous theorem as an abstract object; you have to cite it by its number, and keeping track of numbers by hand sucks)
- Lack of outside bibliographic database integration
- Doesn't look good on paper (no web browser can begin to match the years of thought that went into TeX's typesetting engine--kerning, ligatures, n-cubed optimal hyphenation, etc.)
I'm really shocked that you think MathML is any more human readable than TeX is. Try comparing "3+4i" in TeX to in MathML and you'll see what I mean. Any way you look at it, TeX/LaTeX is not going away anytime soon.My browser of choice? iCab. If you're on a Mac, this browser rocks. Fast, small, highly cusomizable, tightly integrated into the MacOS, and more preferences than you can shake a stick at. No proprietary tags or other BS, either... just strickt HTML 4.0 compliance. This baby kicks the butt of both "mainstream" browsers by delivering something that both browsers should be. The final release should ship in January, and be feature-complete by that time. (The only thing that's lacking right now is lack of CSS & XML support, and the JavaScript is still a little buggy.) Everyone that's used this browser for a day or two has switched and never looked back.
When this puppy hits prime-time, look the hell out.
---
MacTacToe - for every problem, an elegant solution
If anyone here went through ftp1-29.netscape.com you would find that /pub/netscape6/english is cut off. If you go to ftp30+ you will find that there are three directories, 6.0/, 6.0_netbiz_edition, & 6_PR3/. Obviously they are not done sending this out to the ftp farm. Wait until morning and download it. I know all of us Linux fans are jonsin' for a new browser but this will have to wait a few more hours =)
That directory has been there for eons... long before the PR releases came out, and it's always had the permissions set to deny anyone. I love how someone sees a directory structure and knee-jerk posts, just to get a submission in...
This is almost as bad as seeing nightly builds with a milestone number in them and then screaming "Mozilla MXX is out!!"
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
I, like a lot of /. readers, dismissed Mozilla after I tried one of the earlier, bulky build and discovered numerous problems. Just recently I have downloaded the latest milestone build M18 (Linux i586) and it is good.
The Mozilla hackers are not kidding when they said the next releases are going to be optimisation only, because Mozilla is ready to go forth and take over the world!
Amongs many goodies in M18: themes are now fully functional, you can choose NOT to install the news/mail/chat clients, memory footprint is more or less the same as Netscape 4.75.
You own it to yourself to at least download the ~8MB binary and give it a try. (You can install the whole thing under a standard account if you don't want to mess with your /usr/local/ :-)
====
Codeala - Just another mindless drone
Well, netscape may have closed it dirs, it has been mirrored allready, for example: /ne tscape/netscape6/english/6.0
ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pub
Hmm... sounds like the similar dillusions of one Mr. Gates.
Fact is, I'm on a WinNT box, and I use Netscape (v4.61) almost exclusively. Why 'almost'? Well, the company I work for makes its intranet for IE only, so I have to keep it around. I have tried 3 different versions of IE and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees; they misdraw most frames, outlines around buttons, and outlines around text boxes. These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program. Not everyone has this problem, but I'm not the only one either.
Even if this little bug that makes my screen practically unreadable at times didn't exist, I would probably still use Netscape. It never crashes on me, I prefer the interface, I prefer the 'bookmarks' method rather than the 'favorites' method, and it's not so intertwined with the functioning of the OS.
I realize my experiences are not the same as everyone. That's my point; just because you think IE is better doesn't mean everyone thinks IE is better. Even if most people think IE is better, that still doesn't make you right.
If you really think you know what's best for everyone else, there's a little company in Redmond you might to apply to work at, because they have a similar philosophy.
By the way, on Linux, I used Netscape exclusively until KDE2 came out, now I also use Konquerer.
It looks like Netscape has but the release up on their FTP server but didn't want it for public viewing yet. At the time it was wide open, now they've made it permission denied until they finally release it.
My view of the Linux version - better than previous Netscape previews but the latest Mozilla nightly is still way ahead. I got a few crashes on this release which I've not had with the latest Mozilla's but overall the Netscape release seems OK.
One prob with the Linux version is it still spouts all the messages to stdout/stderr if you run it in an xterm - for a supposedly released product to say things like "we don't support eBorderStyle - please fix me" seems a bit unprofessional. Perhaps they'll fix this in the next few days before they open up their FTP servers again. I sent feedback to them about it on their feedback form, all they need to do is to get their shell script that starts mozilla-bin to redirect all output to /dev/null not exactly a high risk fix.
Anyway sorry for the disappointent caused, this FTP server worked for hours after I submitted the story
Dave
shall we have a poll to see which crashes more often?
--- LOTR!!!
I remember doing sites and saying, "IE SUCKS!"
I don't have Windows, so I couldn't check stuff out until people told me IE problems.
Then again, I now say, "NETSCAPE, IE, AND MOZILLA SUCKS!" I now use Konqueror almost exclusively.
Of course, I doubt anyone cares about what your webmaster has to say if your post is that content-free.
Your post reminds me of adolescent "<band a> sucks, <band b> rulez" banter.
Alternatively you might as well just go here and download the latest Mozilla builds which is better in all respects (unless you need AOL IM integrated with your browser) and then just get the Netscape throbber from a N6 preview release and swap it with the Mozilla ones then you do have the best of all worlds.
Once again sorry for letting you all down - it did work for hours after me submitting it but then they must have realised.
What a crock. You are assuming you have this wonderful idea of what is best for everyone. Hmm... sounds like the similar dillusions of one Mr. Gates.
Wow, go for the jugular why don't you? I'm just expressing an opinion, not dictating the choice of browser you use. The level of vitriol in your post is hardly warranted now is it?
Fact is, I'm on a WinNT box, and I use Netscape (v4.61) almost exclusively.
Good for you.
I have tried 3 different versions of IE and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees; they misdraw most frames, outlines around buttons, and outlines around text boxes. These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program. Not everyone has this problem, but I'm not the only one either.
Strange, I've never had any problems like that in any of the versions of IE I've used on any of the Windows platforms. Of course anecdotal evidence doesn't really constitute a valid argument either way.
Even if this little bug that makes my screen practically unreadable at times didn't exist, I would probably still use Netscape. It never crashes on me, I prefer the interface, I prefer the 'bookmarks' method rather than the 'favorites' method, and it's not so intertwined with the functioning of the OS.
As I said earlier, good for you. If you prefer the user interface then that's great, I'm not trying to convert you to IE. But why does the integration of IE with the operating system count as a negative point if you're already using Windows? You've already got the requisite components that IE uses loaded into memory anyway, as other parts of the system use them.
I realize my experiences are not the same as everyone. That's my point; just because you think IE is better doesn't mean everyone thinks IE is better. Even if most people think IE is better, that still doesn't make you right.
*sigh* I didn't say I was right did I? All I was talking about was market share and public perception. People are free to use whichever browser they wish, and the majority of them are using Internet Explorer. That was the point I was making.
If you really think you know what's best for everyone else, there's a little company in Redmond you might to apply to work at, because they have a similar philosophy.
Right. I don't even have Windows on my machine at home any more. Obviously a big Microsoft fan aren't I? You need to calm down and realise that your choice of browser isn't tied to how good a person you are, and that if someone says that more people are using IE than Netscape, it's not a personal attack on you.
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Likewise, the ability to dynamically move transparent objects over a page is exactly where Mo/Netscape excel, and IE will again be behind "the bleeding edge."
This is a quick guide for those who are saying Mozilla doesnt have JAVA and SSL support, explaining how to enable both under Win32. If anyone can explain how to get it working under linux, feel free to add to this.
Download the lastest Mozilla build (check comments on www.mozillazine.org for build information)
unzip the build into c:\mozilla (or whatever you wish)
Get hold of the Sun JAVA2 1.3 JRE (Java Runtime Environment)
Install the Sun JRE, and reboot the system.
Copy the 3 Java Plugin files (npjava12.dll, npjava11.dll, npjava32.dll) from the JRE directory to the Mozilla Plugins directory ( bin/plugins).
This will enable full Java support.
To enable SLL and https support, run Mozilla and serch the menus for a menu itm called "Install PSM" this will take you to a web page on IPlanet and at the bottom is a button saying "Install Netscape PSM for Windows" (there is also a install netscape PSM for Linux too).
click the button, and the PSM will automatically download and install itself, then restart Mozilla.
Thats it, SSL + JAVA 2 working.
Java works fine with M18 (at least under win32). I hit a site with one of those f-ing "hit the monkey" java banners and M18 prompted me to download the Java modules. It downloaded and installed. I restarted M18 and it worked fine.
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
Anything else being released this weekend? We could also see 2.4.0 kernel, Gimp 1.2, glibc-2.2, gcc-3.00 or even the next Win2000 service pack.