Rice Genome Mapped

rampant_gerbil writes: "Apparently a company called Syngenta has sequenced the entire genome of the rice plant. Here is a link to the corporate press release. As the story points out, "Rice is the model for the other grasses, including corn and wheat," so this sounds like quite a milestone. Now if only they would engineer some nacho cheese flavor into those rice cakes..."

Comments

Re:What about the vegies

[jbuhler]

Consider: a lot of the "vegetable" rennet used to make cheese in the USA comes from E. coli bacteria which have been genetically modified to produce rennin, an enzyme that is good at curdling milk proteins. Natural rennin comes from the stomachs of calves, and AFAIK the natural and engineered versions of the enzyme are chemically the same (as opposed to, say, curdling enzymes derived from plants, which must be chemically modified before they can be used to make cheese).

I think microbial rennet is considered vegetarian, despite being an enzyme of animal origin. I know that cheese made with can be labeled kosher.

spanked with clue stick

[Chris Johnson]

*ahem*

Masses _already_ feed themselves. That is why they are masses. The thing to be careful of is that you don't introduce new more efficient forms of, say, rice- that require a well to be drilled, that require fertilizer and herbicides and the whole agribusiness infrastructure of the _American_ industrial farming system.

And these GE variations on rice DO require these things.

Just because masses in the third world subsist feeding themselves on indigenous crops does not mean they can afford to buy five pounds of Monsanto herbicide and drill a well to water the hungrier crops. The evidence is, you tell the farmers very persuasively that they will have 100X the rice, they buy into it, are given the rice to start off with, can't afford to maintain an industrial farm, go several lakhs in debt and die.

The idea that this is a good or benevolent thing is, to say the least, curious.

Put it this way: I daresay a lot of intelligent, educated, professional slashdotters are continually on their guard, aware of the various instances in which vast companies try to outwit them and put them in a dependent position- whether that's with software APIs, license agreements, terms of service for services, whatever. Most slashdotters are probably aware that it is necessary to be at least mildly vigilant, or you get hosed and other slashdotters laugh at you and call you a sucker.

What justification is there for requiring poor subsistence farmers in India and other countries to be comparably well educated, wary, and informed on agricultural technology? What justification is there for expecting _them_ to 'know better'?

And again, masses feed themselves. That is _why_ they are masses. Places like Somalia become hells of starvation for _political_ reasons, such as freemarket gangs with guns seizing all the food. These are not agricultural problems...

Re:But... Monsanto gave away the rice genome

[Chris Johnson]

Speaking of which: http://www.abc.net.au/specials/shiva/shiva.htm

Seems this wonderful technology is causing farmers to go bankrupt, commit suicide, sell off their kidneys to survive, not to mention the idea is to make a Wonderful Perfect Monoculture. Can we say 'incredibly, criminally stupid'? I would love to think that people can learn to associate focus-group tested spiffy names like 'golden rice' with the reality that this is a straight-out power grab that will _wreck_ large portions of the world, sabotage their economies and make them slaves to Monsanto, the 'benevolent provider' of the wonderful 'golden rice'. Read the article, "assistance" means video trucks sent into villages to convince farmers to switch over wholesale to the new crop- first one's free kid! and this spells the death of the farmer. Read the article!

I'm sorry, in many ways I think this is more genuinely evil than anything that (for instance) Microsoft has done. MS tries to leech off rich yuppies and control what you think and how you communicate. Monsanto is _killing_ poor farmers by conning and lying to them.

Now moderate me down, because I chose not to 'moderate' my opinion this time and say 'but gee, I'm sure they're all good people'. There's a limit.

Re:They're forgetting something

[Chris Johnson]

Nah- here's how it works. The rice is sold at a loss, like game consoles. Then the company bleeds the farmer dry on fertilizer, pesticides etc. without which the new crop won't grow. The old crop grew fine, just not at USA agribusiness efficiencies, but the new crop needs a USA-type support structure to grow, which is not cheap.

It's hardly hypothetical. Loads of farmers in places like India have gone from being subsistence-level (not 'hungry', just 'poor') to being bankrupt with a pile of fancy seed and unable to make the payments on the infrastructure. At first they tended to commit suicide but apparently selling off kidneys has become a more popular option, at least to start with- death is probably still the end result.

It's not the food, not at all- it's the freaking process! You can't convert subsistence farmers to USA-style agribusiness. They can't afford crop dusters...

grasses eh?

[garcia]

I wonder if the end of "Road Trip" will actually come true when some hardcore science stoners come up w/an altered Marijuana plant that doesn't show up on tests, and becomes incredibly strong...

ahhh, the wonders of modern science ;)

Re:grasses eh?

[AnarchyBurger]

You should try growing some reed canary grass (Phalaris arundinacea), which looks like ordinary grass, but has DMT in it. DMT is a hallucinogen related to magic mushrooms and more distantly to LSD. Read the FAQ at Lyceum.org

Re:grasses eh?

[caffeinated_bunsen]

I've always wanted to try a slightly different idea: Genetically engineer some standard lawn grass to contain THC. Maybe give it some other characteristics that make it grow just a bit better than regular grass. Grow plenty of it, then start planting it wherever you can. Your own lawn, your neighbors' lawns, city parks, anywhere.

If it manages to propagate quickly enough, it provides a perfect workaround for all those pesky laws about schedule 1 narcotics. Let's see the guvmint try to outlaw lawns. Nobody would have to mow their lawns anymore, either. All the stoners would be doing it for free.

As for making stealth weed, you'd first need to know exactly what chemicals the tests look for, then try to find some chemical that will still have the same psychoactive effect but won't be detected. Trouble is, the tests would probably change to look for the new chemicals in a few months.

most anti-open source effort so far

[peter303]

This is the most privatized genome sequenced to date. The company does not intend to submit
results to public databases as all previous
sequencings have done, include the human.
They will make small piece availabe to academic
investigators who request. However, it can be
had to knwo what you want.

Scribes out of work

[froz]

Seems those miniature scribes are out of business. You can now grow entire rice crops with your name printed on each grain.

I'd still be impressed to see someone engrave the entire rice genome onto a single grain of rice. Long-grain will be accepted.

/.'s slump

[Eil]

Eh? Must be a slow day at slashdot. Rice Genome. Good grief.

GNU for Biology?

[Cheshire Cat]

Just what the world needs: A company with a patent on the genome of one of, if not *the*, biggest grain food in the world. Want to modify your rice to feed your starving third-world country? Pay us a fee.

I would much rather see something like this placed in the public domain, or better yet until a GNU-type license! Which brings me to the point of this: Is there anything like the GNU license for biological products?

Re:GNU for Biology?

[Stephen Samuel]

The whole point of the patent system is to encourage scientific discovery. The patent system exists "to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."

The patent system needs to run a rather thin line. If it patents for too narrow a use, then the patent is useless. If it patents for too wide a use, then the patent may discourage investigation within a whole area of research by giving one company an effective monopoly in that area. I think that part of the complaint in the GM arena is that patents are being awarded both too easily and too broadly.

Companies are in gold-rush mode, right now, rushing to be the first to reach (and patent) various benchmarks in the research process. The long-term fear, however, is that -- once that is done, the more specific (and useful) research in those areas is going to be effectively choked off as only one company has any incentive to do any research in that area.

For us consumers, the apparent result is feared to be slower practical research with the results being far more expensive than they need to be because nobody else is likely to be doing any research in that same general field, and university researchers have to pay royalties/sign non-disclosure agreements to even do basic research.
`ø,,ø!

Re:GNU for Biology?

[nomadic]

owever, to say that those out there spending billions of dollars making scientific discoveries shouldn't be allowed to recoup some profit (which is what patent elimination would do) is a drastic position. Company greed to make a buck off discovering things has fueled the explosion of scientific advances that we've made over the last century.

Granted companies should be able to patent things to recoup money, that's what the patent system was created for. However, you are entering far different territory than steam engines or computer parts when you allow companies or individuals to declare they have sole rights to a sequence of amino acids. I'm not advocating eliminating the patent system as a whole, just the biotech aspect of it, something which didn't exist when the USPO was created. I would replace it with government funding; allow the citizenry, through their tax dollars, to fund biotech research. Yes, that's already done, but nothing says it can't be increased. I wouldn't want to see things such as gene therapy become so expensive that most people can't afford them if they need them. To see where it can head, just look at the pharmaceutical industry; companies "recoup" their research costs simply by charging outrageous prices for their products, which consumers have little choice in paying. They often need these drugs to survive, but the patent means no competition, so the companies can basically price them however they want.

As for the explosion of scientific advances that we've made over the last century, I think just as much (or more) is owed to several factors beyond company greed. One is the snowball effect; certain discoveries beget other discoveries, like quantum physics influencing everything from the evolution of computers to quantum chemistry. Another is the nature of the scientific professions themselves, which connects an individuals prestige, financial, and professional success to their scientific work.
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Re:GNU for Biology?

[nomadic]

We shouldn't even need a GNU-type license for this; nobody should be able to patent any form of DNA, or even the methods used to analyze and modify genetic material. This is especially the case involving crops that feed a major percentage of the world's population. Some of the biotech patent issues make software patents look sane by comparison; anyone remember how one Texas-based company patented Basmati rice? Apparently several thousand years of cultivation by Indian farmers didn't constitute prior use; this is being challenged by the Indian government, but that the USPO actually accepted this in the first place is a sign of nearly criminal incompetence.
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Re:They're forgetting something

[Stephen Samuel]

The fight over GM crops isn't entirely (or even mostly) a religious one (although, I can see religious groups getting edgy about messing with god's creations). The fight tends to center more around the 'frankenstein effect' -- how creating a GM product can have unexpected side-effects.

It's rather like the case of drug side-effects, except for the fact that, once you let a GM plant 'into the wild' it's almost impossible to recall it. By the time you find out that a plant is really bad to have in existence in the wild, the seeds and pollen could be far beyond the fields they're planted in.

The CBC has an in-depth report about a lawsuit stemming from the problem of rogue seeds. (These plants, thankfully, don't seem to be malignant.)
`ø,,ø!

Re:GNU for Biology? (counter-example)

[Stephen Samuel]

The fight over genetic ownership has already started. Monsanto "owns" the genetic mods for a version of Canola that is resistant to their "roundup" plant-killer. The seeds of a 'monsanto' crop apparently blew into a farmer's field, and he used them. Now Monsanto is suing him for using seeds that he found on his field.

The apparent purpose of the lawsuit is to create a chilling atmosphere for other people so that they'll be afraid of using a seed if they even think that it could be one they claim ownership of. (up to this point, they've been relying on contracts with farmers that restrict them from using monsanto seeds without paying a fee. Unfortunately seeds don't know anything about contracts (the farmer in this case has not signed any sort of contract with the company.

The extreme case for this sort of lawsuit would be where a company claims 'ownership' of a human genetic mod. Can you imagine the idea of a company claiming royalties for your children?

Honestly, your honor, I did not know that my girlfriend was Monsanto modified. If I had, I would have probably chosen a different partner.

Judge: Ignorance is no defence. O fine you $30,000 and order the child destroyed.

`ø,,ø!

The dangers of sequencing chinese food:-

[Richy_T]

You sequence one genome then 15 minutes later, you feel like sequencing another.

Rich

New rice product!

[www.sorehands.com]

Steak flavored rice

Just announced. Tastes just like steak (lobster flavor out soon), contains all the required vitamins and minerals. Only 2 calories.

5 cents per pound.

oh boy

[blowhole]

i can't wait for rice on the cob.

Re:Genetically modified anything is...

[caffeinated_bunsen]

This whole thread is gonna be kinda redundant, but I'll explain this anyway:

> Charging people money for something that could potentially solve a world problem should be criminal.

By that logic, every farmer who has ever sold a bushel of corn or wheat should be in prison.

If you want to go and spend a couple million dollars on gene sequencing equipment, pay a few dozen scientists living wages for a year or two, and not ask for any money in return, go ahead. Really. The world can only benefit from it. Maybe we should start a non-profit organization to promote public domain genetic research. But if you don't have several million dollars to blow, then you're gonna want some return on that investment.

Many recent patents on biotech, genetics, and technology in general are absurd at best. That doesn't mean the whole idea of making a profit from investment and hard work (yes, some of the people involved actually put forth a hell of a lot of effort) is fundamentally evil. Outright exploitation, as we see so often today, is definitely evil.

Our patent system is fucked up in a big way, and some people exploit that to eliminate anything that might keep money away from them. But just because a company tries to make money from doing genetic research doesn't make them evil. Just because a company files a patent doesn't make them evil. Exploiting already impoverished people would make them evil. Restricting scientific research would make them evil. So far, I don't see the company in question doing either one of those. Until they do start exploiting people, or using the patent office to stifle science, or anything else generally shitty, I won't get too angty at them.

Still quite ignorant

[Alien54]

They are still quite ignorant about exactly what each letter of the genome means.

Since I've commented on this before, all I will say in passing is that I take it to be the equivalent to having successfully transcribed the alien equivalent of the dead sea scrolls. Now they got to figure out the language and find out what it is saying.

I suspect that, like all good code, the educational part will be in the comments.

A similar situation was the speculation about Egypt before the rosetta stone. The fantastic phantasies that were spun are incredible. And it turned out to be very different from what they imagined. So the scientists have a big job ahead of themselves.

as a side note, I do not think that they should be able to patent anything from that gene sequence until they can explain in full detail what each encoding means and how it encodes what it does.

ugh

[benshutman]

call me simple.... all these gene work, cloning, genome mapping etc.. all i want to do is be able to go to kinkos and make a damn black and white copy turn out the same as the original. come on people, lets get our priorities straight.


NEWS: cloning, genome, privacy, surveillance, and more!

An Interesting Development

[A_Mythago]

This makes you wonder how this development will affect the projects of individuals like Ingo Potrykus, the creator of "Golden Rice" (see previous story here). His efforts to create a beta-carotene enhanced strain of rice to fight malnutrition has already been seriously challenged by patent holders of the genetic transfer techniques used to create it.

Now with a company claiming to have mapped the genome of rice, will they try to restrict use of genetic modification to those who pay royalties for use of "their" genome? Before you pass judement on this line of thought, you may want to consider the fact Potrykus wants to provide his rice at cost or lower to ensure the people who need it are able to afford it. In today's cutthroat legal world, I doubt a company (or more specifically their lawyers) would idly stand by and watch someone give away something they could sell for profit.

For more information, see this article in Time.

What about the vegies

[mr_exit]

What i've wanted to know is if you have a plant (say rice) and engineer into it some genes from an animal (say steak or meatballs).... and heres the tricky part......... would it be vegeterian or not??

-------
Drink Coffee - Do Stupid Things Faster And With More Energy!

Re:What about the vegies

[Calle Ballz]

Well. Depending on which genes you have more of. Let's say you have a Cow and a Gardenia broken down like this:

More of Cow, not enough of Gardenia
The Cow shaped animal will have no hair, but rather a thick leafy green skin rich in Iron and other nutrients. Near the end of this hybrid there will be a hole, known as an anus, which will periodically release a perfume like (but methanous) scent.

More of Gardenia, not enough of Cow:
The Really stalky looking plant will have a centralized circulation system. The flowers that bloom from this plant hybrid will smell somewhat, farmlike. During photosynthesis in this animal, rather than C02 being converted into 02, 02 will be converted to C02. Also, it is an urban legend that if you come up late at night with 2 or more people, you can tip these plants over if they are not paying attention.

that is your biology lesson of the morning.

Re:They're forgetting something

[MWoody]

I seriously doubt, if a more abundant and hardy breed of rice is created to feed the world's hungry, that many third world inhabitants are going to turn down food on the basis that it's "unnatural".

Of course, feeding the poor offers little financial gain, so they likely won't much care about the wishes of the penniless.
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Risks of "Enhanced" GM Rice et al

[Wills]

We see any number of stories saying how wonderful it would be for rice and other plants to be enhanced using genetic modifications, but I wonder what might be the possible negative effects of proposed GM modifications:

• Making a GM rice with an unnaturally high level of vitamin X compared to a normal wild rice, might be ok for people who eat a balanced diet but people in a poor country would get a harmful overdose of X because rice is the only major food they can afford to eat.
  
  
• Another issue is by making a GM plant with unnaturally high levels of nutrient X you open it up to new attacks from pests and diseases which share our preference for nutrient X .

There might be a net gain from creating GM plants for certain applications but I think publications writing about absolutely "wonderful" new GM plants should try hard to give a balanced discussion of risks as well as of benefits.

But... Monsanto gave away the rice genome

[rochlin]

Monsanto, the biggest developer of genetically modified crops in the world, made the rice genome freely available last year. Press Release: href="http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/media/00/00 aug4_goldenrice.html You need to register (on paper!) but the genome itself is available here: http://www.rice-research.org/>Rice Genome site. Much hoopla about this at the time. So what's the deal? (golden rice in the press release refers to rice with extra beta carotene for developing countries. They're offering the regular rice genome plus assistence in developing golden rice crops).

They're forgetting something

[vanillicat]

I question just how useful this will be until the debate over genetically modified crops is resolved; these companies will have to come to terms with the resistance to the use of crops like this.

Just as an obvious observation...

[mech9t8]

The real first step in deciding issues like this is having a government that doesn't drop in its knees when big business calls... we can talk about GNU for DNA till we're blue in the face, but it's never going to happen while big money runs the country.