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$200 Net PC to Close Brazil's Digital Divide
Alexsander writes: "As announced by Pimenta da Veiga, minister of communications, a Net PC costing R$ 400 (around US$ 200) will be available in 120 days. It targets low-income users, and a 24-month paying plan will be considered. The computer will be a Pentium 500 MHz, with keyboard, mouse, NIC, 56 Kbps modem, 14" display, 64 Mb RAM and no hard disk (16 Mb flash RAM instead). The main-board architecture (developed by UFMG) will be open, allowing any company to make it. It will run Linux (probably Conectiva) with KDE, KOffice and Konqueror." The Brazilian government notice is available, as are pictures of the device. Imagine: a government doing something to help poor people get access to the internet.
Imagine: a government doing something to help poor people get access to the internet.
And not with sneaky proprietary companies that want to monitor your usage and sell information, but instead with that mysterious free "communist" open source operating system, Linux!
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
As for crappy schools, the notion that the quality of your school should be linked to the money you have (except of course for the 1-2% who can attend very expensive private schools) or the city you live in is a very American one.
Why not? And who's going to pay for it? Americans?
Translation in the educational/medical domain: "So now you will take other people's money away so that less fortunate will have a reasonable life expectancy and even possibly get a decent education
So it's alright to steal to make one's health and education better? Bill Clinton makes more than I do (much of it stolen from you and I, down to the dinnerware and the $750K/month office he wants). You're telling me I can just go in and take stuff out of his office and pawn it since I'd like an MBA? Cool!
We're talking about a divide that might soon become almost as important as the one between people who can read/write, and people who can't.
Where you been for the last four thousand years? You think this is a new thing? We're better off with global literacy then ever before, in spite of people choosing and supporting tyrants and thieves for governments.
In fact that's exactly what 90% of western countries do. Britain and US being two noticeable exceptions
What - steal from their citizens, pocket 70% for "processing fees" and give the other 30% to worthless governments that also pocket 90% and give table scraps to their hostages? No, I'm afraid the US and Britain are both exceptionally well trained at this scam as well.
And where are the Europeans, Japanese and Koreans? Why are they not on the angst trip list?
In general, it's easy to blather droll like this post, until you realize that the pathetic world these people live in is the consequence of their choice in government, believe in mysticism, etc. As long as they keep wishing for happiness while supporting corrupt governments, they'll be poor.
*scoove*
You're free to make any decision you want, but you are not free from its consequence.
As I look at the history of communist nations, they seem to eliminate the economic gaps between rich and poor by making everyone poor. An elegant, but hardly optimal solution.
... and for (partly) that reason, I was not advocating communism -- merely pointing out that an economic divide is an unavoidable fact of life in its absence. And (to wrench this back onto topic) governments would do well to make sure that financial poverty does not lead to intellectial poverty. Public libraries have served this purpose in the past (and will continue to do so). Initiatives such as this Brazilian one are a modern extension of that ideal.
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I agree that the Internet will not end poverty. However, I think the Brazilian taxpayers are not wasting the money spent on this particular program.
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send all spam to theotherwhitemeat@ropine.com
And Jesus said:
"The poor will always be with us."
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
The way to help the poor is not to raise taxes from the producers of wealth, and slow the entire economy. If a government wants to help its people, the best thing it can do is nothing at all.
The Brazilian government needs to start a massive program of internet cultural literacy for it's citizens before they step onto the info super-highway, in order that they understand the existing culture, and don't destory the existing culture. This program will consist of:
Then, and only then, will Brazilians be able to understand the internet.
Only then
What happens if you don't have enough money to go to college, even if you're very intelligent?
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Keep attacking good things as "communist"
KMSMA (WWBD?)
Call me stupid but how exactly are they going to install Linux and KDE 2 without a HDD of some sorts. I know Linux is compact, but you can't exactly call KDE 2 compact - certainly not compact enough to fit into a 16Mb flash card.
...the more middle class people with these things in their homes, the more of them there are for the truly poor to steal them and use them from the comfort of their *own* cardboard boxes.
Seriously, getting more PCs [of any kind] out there is bound to be good. If there is one thing poor countries can do these days to get long-term foreign money, it's to develop their brains. Cutting down a forest is a one-time windfall, not a real source of ongoing finance.
--
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
You do have a point and this is quite likely. At the same time
Who said that there will be any loss. An IDT winchip or K6-2+ based board with the worst type "fry your brain" 14in CRT with 16M flash, 64M memory and a linmodem will cost exactly there. Bulk prices of course. And even if not picked up by the masses it will still make a good terminal for schools if the linmodem is replaced by LAN.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
This is, of course, very true. But the point of social programs like this is to make sure that the people who are willing to put in the effort -- get a chance to try. Some obstacles are not going to change (your family, genetics, etc). But if we want to encourage a meritocracy in which everyone has the opportunity to rise to the top, we have an obligation to eliminate as many obstacles as we can.
Having a computer(or easy access to one) is a prerequisite to a modern education. It's a natural consequence that the government will support a wide distribution of cheap computers.
It's the same reason that we now have public education. Schooling (typically with a tutor) was a luxury that rich people took advantage of. As it became clear that schooling was becoming a prerequisite to "the good life", we instituted a system that allowed everyone access to that schooling, at enormous cost. We all know that some take advantage of it and some don't, but few of us question it's merit.
I'm not saying that this program is the right way to go about it -- just that the concept is one that I agree with.
Take another look. The case is mostly see through! You can see the motherboard and everything without even opening the case. Which of course means just that much more inticement to open it up and start hardware hacking. That may be the smartest thing about this whole deal. Looks like there's an extra slot for a hard drive controller card or whatever.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Another interesting example is the Bangladeshi woman who used microcredit to buy a cell phone, which she rents out to her neighbors. Not a big business by our standards, but one that has a drastic effect on her and her customers.
The importance of both examples is that they show impoverished, even illiterate people gaining access to information. For people like this, information is power, money, and safety. A weather report pulled off a US Navy web site can mean life or death for a fisherman. Being able to talk to a guest-worker family member means their remittances don't get ripped off by go-betweens. There are no end of consequences.
The best thing about these programs is the way they promote mutual aid and collective responsibility. Microloans are administered by peer groups that make sure the recipient has realistic goals and plans. Groups that chip in to buy a computer are going to be personally involved in how it is used -- no dusty impulse purchase this!
__________________
"President Bush's plan for faith-based groups helping their local communities?"
Not Bush's plan, Ralph Reed's, announced while Bush was on the campaign trail, in concert with Wisconsin's Tommy Thompson (see next).
Careful Zaphod, your slip is showing.
BTW, I'm not saying 'faith-based' is a bad idea: just make it open to all faiths (including - *shudder* - Scientologists, Wiccans, Satanists, etc.), and use the same rules that you use for non-faith-based public charities (same with school vouchers). Then let's see how many of these 'churches' line up for the free handout from Uncle Sugar.
Remember guys, this is Amerika. Just because you have the most votes, doesn't mean you get to win.--Fox Mulder
C'mon, most of the brazilian citizens earn about US$75 a month. Now imagine you have 3 kids to raise, you barely would buy enough food for your children, how the hell would you buy a computer? And even worse, how would you pay the phone bills?
Let's not dream about poor brazilian people with computers. THey don't care about it, they care about their own health
-----------------------------------------------
You think Bill Gates is evil?
1) The US doesn't have the largest percentage of people online (I believe that is Sweden)
2) 98% of American households own a color TV. 91% own a car. 84% have a VCR. 74% have cable TV. 66% own two color TVs. 44% own a computer.
3) PeoplePC sells a brand-name computer, on-site service, unlimited Internet access and a home page for $24.95 per-month over three years. If you can afford cable TV, you can afford a computer.
4) But if you can't afford a computer, you can browse the Net at most libraries, or pay-per-use at Kinkos.
I know a Salvadoran familiy in Washington, DC, that makes most of its money from making plantain empanadas for a local pupusaria. They have purchased a 486 computer for their daughter, and she uses AOL. They also have a large TV with surround-sound speakers. Probably the worst thing about their lives is the crime around where they live, but they prefer to be living around other Salvadorans, and they can't afford to move into a suburban McMansion yet.
The "Digital Divide" is much more about individual priorities than economics in the US.
I agree that the internet is no more the answer to poverty than a library card is the answer to illiteracy. But it can help, give incentive to work for the future, rather than perpetuate the status quo. The internet is only part of the answer. Education is another very important part. The internet can give us information, but most importantly it gives us communication. Communication is an empowering technology, it enables people to see beyond their locale.
If a farmer has information about the weather, he can better plan his planting and harvesting. A factory worker can search for a better job. A merchant can search for the best wholesaler for the wares he sells. A craftsman can find out how much the things he creates are actually worth, and price them accordingly, rather than trust the middleman who only has his own bottom line in mind.
If you're going to give the poverty stricken anything, give them opportunity. That's what this cheap internet terminal can give. Viewing a computer as a luxury relegates the computer to the level of television, a one way medium. But the real power of the internet is that even though the bandwidth is largely one way (to the user) there is still a channel out (to the world). You can just spectate, but you have the opportunity to participate, and it is up to the individual to choose.
Right - at least that's my non-Portuguese-speaking understanding of "...construído para levar a internet de graça a escolas, postos de saúde, microempresas e pequenas comunidades."
My first thought was the same as wceschim's. There is no way the people at the bottom of the Brazilian society, in favelas or in the jungle, are going to benefit from this program. I suspect Michael suffers from the "Everything in America is worse than everything anyplace else!" mentality (the lesser known liberal variant of the "Everything in America is better than everything anyplace else!" mentality) and thinks the Brazilian poor are comparable to or better off than the poorest Americans.
In general, it's easy to blather droll like this post, until you realize that the pathetic world these people live in is the consequence of their choice in government, believe in mysticism, etc. As long as they keep wishing for happiness while supporting corrupt governments, they'll be poor
I looove some Americans! Honest! They look all sooo cute when they are ignorant.
The previously truly democraticaly elected president in Mexico was Francisco I. Madero in 1910, unfortunately for him (and for Mexico) the US did not like him, so they supported a traitor that killed the President and the Vicepresident. Mexico had to endure 80 years of mainly corrupt goverments as a consequence.
Other "friends" of the US:
-Anastasio Somoza.
-The Duvalier's in Haiti.
-Mobutu Sese Seko in today's DR of Congo.
-Sadamm Hussein in Irak.
-The former apartheid regime in South Africa.
So belive me, it is not always that countries elect or tolerate corrupt leaders, there are forces that have nothing to do with what the people deserve, in the case of Brazil they had military dictatorships for many years.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
My response is only a collection of electrons, in a pattern to for words. There is no intelligence in them, not literally. So of course he's less stupid. For a human being, however, he is incredibly unintelligent.
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
The digital divide isn't about 'computers are a luxury' and 'I have Internet but I can't afford food'. The digital divide is a growing contributing factor to social exclusion. Social exclusion is about entire communities of individuals who do not have the choices in life (education, jobs and so on) that are available to wealthier communities.
Computer literacy has been growing in importance for quite a while and the Internet appears to have accelerated the process by simply making more people computer literate. If you have no access to computers then you are being denied more than just the opportunity to natter about Star Wars on Slashdot - you are being denied basic skills training.
The effects are currently minimal but are guaranteed to grow. For many many children, computer literacy could be the differentiating factor that (a) gives them the incentive to keep going to school and (b) gets them a job when they leave.
Brazil is by no means far behind the technological curve. A glut of free Internet providers appeared in Rio towards the end of 1999, only months behind the UK. The problem, as people have mentioned, is that it is still out of the financial reach of the majority.
There is a heavy emphasis on extra-curricular education in Brazil - generally paid courses outside school hours. As in America, those in Brazil most aggressively tackling the 'Digital Divide' are the NGOs, who give courses for free. The equipment generally comes entirely from donations and the staff tend to be volunteers. CCDIA is the one I work with, but there are many more. This government scheme could give critical mass to the projects which are offering free courses to those who can't afford to pay.
I would encourage every Slashdot reader in every country to find a local project where they can help - the first-world has social problems too!
1. While just having internet access won't make poor people less poor, it will at least let them communicate with others in the same boat, and become aware of ways to get out of it. If their lot in life doesn't improve, it's also one avenue for political organization. While they could cut off free net access in the event that happened, it's many rungs up the ladder from the typical impoverished country which would take steps to keep its poor people isolated.
2. This is only part of the story. In a New York Times article I read earlier this week, there was a description of how Brazil is encouraging its researchers to violate American drug company patents and copy AIDS drugs for free treatment of the poor, the net effect being that they're controlling AIDS down there as well as we are here. Now they're distributing cheap computers with no Microsoft tax.
Why is this important? Because for apparently the first time, a less privileged country has realized that there's no need to pay rich countries for stuff that can be copied or has a freely available substitute. You can charge whatever you want for oil and take it away if a country won't pay up, but you can't take away their ability to copy your 'intellectual property'.
If they can do this and survive economically, it will change everything.
-----
"You owe me a case of beer. Sucka'."
Power down, turbo!
"Imagine a GOVERNMENT doing something..." he wasn't talking about non-profit orgs. He's talking about the GOVERNEMNT of Brazil.
-Andy
Although it is commendable, I don't think this new computer will help that much.
I'm Brazilian and as such I can tell you: most of Brazil's population will not be able to buy this computer. They wouldn't have the $200, or the telephone line, or the money to pay the phone bill. Pimenta da Veiga is actually helping Brazil's lower middle class.
What they should do is start a real and serious project to connect all schools to the Internet. Public schools in Brazil don't even have computers, let alone computers connected to the Internet.
Finding an article at Slashdot over brazilian efforts to make computing and information systems available to the poor is very nice, but isn't surprising or amazing. No at all.
I work for an Open Source development company in Brazil, Async Open Source and we are making good money providing low cost open source software, such as Stoq to brazilian companies and institutions.
The message I want to make through is: open source and poor countries are a special combination. We have an incredible number of companies running ilegal copies of Windows, SQL server and all the proprietary software they might need. The technological gap of the solutions provided along with those platforms, when you look at the latest applications available to the rich country nations is huge. It all together make Open Source a excelent way of getting rid of licensing problems as well as a shortcut to lessen that gap.
Every day, more and more companies are realizing that Open Source might be a good option, and they are spending money to help companies like Async to develop and deploy software they need.
Goverments part has been very important. This notice over almost cheap hardware is just one among many decisions that have been made in the last 2 years. There is a law submitted to the national congress which says that public institutions must try to adopt free software (like they say here) instead of proprietary solutions. There is also banks and data processing companies sucha as Banrisul and Procergs which are making heavy use of Open Source.
The most famous success case is Conectiva a brazilian Linux distribution which have grown from a small Red Hat portuguese distro version to one of the biggest Linux players in Latin America.
People from other coutries, and specially those involved in Open Source should stop looking at Brazil as a forest populated with poor monkeys and start thinking about coming to work and make profit here. The opensource movement must see that Brazil might be a valuable adition to its cause.
Does anyone here rememeber the days when America optimistically looked towards the future, confident that we would be able to rise to any challenges and overcome them? No, probably not, because those days are pretty much ancient history now, and the future has become something to be either feared or read about in today's horoscopes.
And at this point in time where computers and the internet are starting to change everything what are we as a nation doing about this? Nothing. Oh sure, we've got the largest percentage of people online in the world (for now) but these are all the people who can easily afford to be online, and who have the education to use a computer. There's nobody working to help out the kids in inner city slums, in the projects and ghettos of modern America. And they're the ones who really need an escape route from the bleakness they live in.
But that's alright for us, as long as we get our shiny new toys everything is alright. I was reading the poll and it seems as though some people have networks in their houses with a dozen computers! How can there be any conceivable need for this many computers in one household? It's all just technolust, and these people would be doing a valuable service to society by donating one of their machines to charities that, despite being chronically underfunded, do try and help the poor get online.
With the current shambolic state of education in many places and the huge lack of opportunities for many people, every little bit we can do helps. Otherwise we'll end up losing out to countries which have social programs to try and help the poor, rather than ignoring them as an inevitable consequence of a small part of the population having vast resources.
At $200 for the computer and say $10 per month for Internet access, the computer is still too expensive for "the poor" families.
Heck, they probably don't even have a telephone to connect the PC. (Either because of cost, or lack of infrastructure.)
Local small-businesses and public-service organizations will benefit, though. Perhaps these machines will make it possible to put together public-access Internet kiosks at the libraries and schools.
I just hope people don't buy these only to find a way to "iOpener-ize" the machine and sell them on eBay...
On first blush, this sounds like a wonderful concept, but it begs two questions:
1) Is the Internet service itself provided by the government?
2) Are they providing the communications lines to the poor for free as well?
If the answer to (1) is yes, one wonders what constraints the government might put on the ability to visit sites that the powers deem "inappropriate". If the answer to (2) is no, then the government is providing door stops.
(If these questions were answered in the article, I apologize in advance, since I don't read Portugese.)
I have a vision of some sort of similar program in the U.S. First, there would be the scandal over the bribes paid by whoever got the contract to supply the systems. Then, there would be the conservatives up in arms over the government providing a service that allows people to go to (gasp!) PORN sites (alternatively, the liberals would be fuming over the government censorship due to the presence of cyber-nanny software).
Besides, given the state of government computing systems, the systems provided would be 80286's running 1200 Kbs modems.
---Any philosophy that can be put "in a nutshell" belongs there.---
Yeah, its gotta take a lot of effort on the part of the person that needs the help too. But nobody's going to get themselves out of poverty by just waiting around. If the computer can give them the idea that they can improve their lot in life, then it succeeded. A computer in my view is just a tool. Some people know how to use it, some don't, but very few of the people who don't know how to use it can't learn.
I'd rather see them spend that money giving out computers than teaching them how to chop down the rainforest for an unsustainable farm, or to raise more cattle for McD's.
First of all, some Brasilians KNEW all the console games, understand the Internet, etc, despite of the comment of Hairy_Potter. What we see here is only marketing from our government. A great percentage of our country can ever read portuguese (I'm trying English! =o), what about get an Internet surfer ?!?! We need first to get BASIC education. To the masses, so they can THINK. All this money should be used to give the homeless a chance to go to school, get a job. Just my brasilian opinion.
According to Library of Congress Country Studies the average monthly earnings of [Brazilians is] US$211, and of this, in 1990, 60% of the nation was making less than that.
So while it is encouraging to finally see a country try to get it's nation online (although, IIRC, wasn't there a country with a traveling "Internet boat" and "Internet vans" prior to this?), you really have to realize that w/o the 24-mo paying plan, this is still nothing more than excess legislation.
Information is the catalyst for revolution
I wonder if there's any chance of them selling some of those up in the States? It seems to me that if they sold some up here (at a small profit), it could do them well.
I wouldn't mind getting my hands on some of these; they seem like an ideal thing to use to make a school Linux computer lab... A dozen or two of these and a server running NFS for storage would be much more cost efficient than, say, Win/Dells, and they have much more processing power than recycled Pentium 100 systems.
It seems to me that we could help them and they could help us, all at the same time, and I would so love to infiltrate some high schools with real programming classes (even if you only teach PHP/MySQL/Apache, it would be much more useful than what they currently teach, and I'm sure you could get Java or C/C++/Cb in there).
-- "Duh! Headline of the Year" nominee, from News.Com: --
Trojan horse targets AOL subscribers
Members of the Internet service are being warned to keep watch for a
password-stealing virus circulating in the form of an e-mail attachment.
February 1, 2001, 8:40 a.m. PT
Not necessarily either, I'm thinking. I do think people "raised" on linux w/ KDE will be partial to it over, say, MS-Windows, simply because they're accustomed to it. But I don't think this implies that they'll get into the whole open source movement.
For one thing, it might never be explained to them. If it's only stated that "here's your computer, here's how you work it," there's really no chance of getting into the movement, is there? When I see it really becoming an issue is when someone gets really good at writing shell scripts to customize his/her environment, gets interested in programming, and wants to go to the US to study. Then someone will have to break the news that to be taken seriously in the US computer industry, you have to know Windows2000, and I'm sorry you can't use that because MS says it costs even more than your computer!
To care about Open Source as a phenomenon, I think people must be aware of the alternatives.
I loved your comment by the way, it made me smile already this morning.
Does anyone else see the irony in producing computers that people can get for 200 dollars so that they can close the "digital gap"? I mean, come on, if they can't afford a 500$ computer and a telephone line, they are probably poor enough that they live in substandard housing and/or recieve poor medical attention and/or have crappy schools and/or live on a poor diet and/or etc. etc.
a list of things a thousand times long and each infinitely more powerful than being able to watch pr0n online. Are we to believe that these people will get their 200$ computers that will only allow them access to the web and email and this will solve the rest of their problems? And don't forget, we are talking about Brazil, for the love of pete, they have much more important issues that internet access.
I think some brazilian politian has a buddy who stands to make a crapload off of this.
The other point is, who is paying for this. If the government is sucking up the "loss" in the sales, where is that money coming from, taxxed people? So now you will take other people's money away so that less fortunate won't fall behind on the latest issue of "the Onion" and can keep up with slashdot? WTF?
If an american politician suggested we take money from the rich to buy Power Ranger toys for the poor, or rather, make them available cheaper to the poor, don't you think it would be stopped?
This is sheer stupidity. Folks who are so scared of being thought of as back-woods or less than first world because they aren't all trapped by AOL yet and aren't berated with banner ads for $hit they will never be able to afford that they'll sink valuable resources into a worthless effort such as this. It's a damn shame.
-- there is no point in pulling the pud... if you do it right.
Since the day someone decided that the job of government is to help the people of the country rather than just finding excuses to start wars.
I would gladly never take a government funded college loan if it meant that welfare would be abolished.
Well then, fuck you. That's what you're saying to the rest of the people in whatever country you live in - "fuck the lot of you-I'm alright". Of course while you're saying this you aren't using any government supplied roads and obviously you've posted this message on some strange network which doen't owe its existance to Govt. sponsored projects and your house is powered by electricity which does not come from a station built with the aid of Govt development grants (nor, for that matter, do you live near any of the big Govt.-paid-for hydro-electric dams).
No man is an island. If you want to live as if you are then go and live on an island and stop being a dead weight on the rest of us.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
If this program really takes off in Brazil, it means that the first digital experience many Brazilians have will be based on Linux. "Linux as a first OS" would differ from the typical background of a US techie raised on MS-ware (although not everyone used DOS/Windows first, I know). Will these Linux machines carry with them the aura of the open source movement, or will it be just another OS to them? (I recall, for example, that although DOS was not free, it had many die-hard advocates who seemed to be partial because "DOS was what they knew.")
To berate the government when they use this to control what "the people" see on the Internet
Imagine! The first government in the history of the world to do something for purely altruistic reasons!
By the way, if you buy that, I've got this bridge...
I don't trust the Brazilian government (or, any government) to run this kind of program. I predict that within a year or so, assuming this program makes significant in-roads, the cheap, non-free-as-in-speech Internet computer will be serving up some kind of prole-feed to the users. Do you think that anti-governement propoganda will make it's way down that subsidized phone line to the end user? Will the news ticker display headlines such as "Brazilian President caught in flagrante delicto with a mule"?
More likely, it will be a conduit for government propoganda and a shield for the government to hide behind.
You want to help Brazilian citizens get Internet access? Go down to Brazil, open a business and hire people. Teach them to operate a computer, suggest a good brand (local, preferably), help them set it up and give them technical support if they need it.
That's helping somebody -- saying "wow, that Brazilian government is so cool, giving away computers" is NOT helping. It's a coward's way out.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
It appears to be an AMD K6-II 500, not a Pentium 500 as the poster suggested. Heck, this is faster than any of my home machines!
-Paul Komarek
I agree that it isn't all that good if you can't pay for college. In Canada, I didn't have enough money, so I took out student loans.
While post secondary education might not be possible in the U.S., there is still nothing to prevent a person from scrounging the components of a P.C. They're quite cheap these days. When I was in highschool I built a 286 system for under $200 (CDN). The comperable power today would be a low end Pentium... a much more useful system. I still use a 486 for Linux and as a firewall at home.
If you're so financially strapped that as a student your guardians rely on your part time income to pay for your home.... that's really terrible. I have no idea what to do for those kids.
On that note, for a while there was a great group in Toronto called CLUE, the Centre for Linux Excellence. They would take donations of old hardware from companies (486's) and build systems from it. They would then drop a standard build of Debian onto the machines, teach kids how to use them, then give them to the kids... recommended donation of $25. They eventually buckled under... I think they had problems with rent.
http://centre.linux.ca/
IMHO widespread work like that would be far more helpful than the schools.
There is also a "Free University" movement in Toronto.
http://www.utoronto.ca/acc/freeu/
Oh great, now you've slashdotted a whole country. Very nice!
As for crappy schools, the notion that the quality of your school should be linked to the money you have (except of course for the 1-2% who can attend very expensive private schools) or the city you live in is a very American one.
If this is supposed to imply that all Brazilian kids get a similar eduaction it is very ignorant. Brazil is one of the most unequal societies in the world. The favela kids don't have any schools or health care at all, and are hunted for sport by the police.
These cheap computers may help the middle class get on the web. But it's very likely that primarily it will help some fat cat involved in it make millions of govenrment money. Did I mention that Brazil is one of the most corrupt countries in the world as well?
It's a great place to visit, though. But stay out of the favelas!!
Who do you mean "we", Anonymous Coward? In 1989 I worked for Embratel, a Brazilian Federal Government owned company that operated the state monopoly (as regulated by the Brazilian Constitution) for long-distance telephone communications in our country. Today I work for Embratel, an MCI/WorldCom owned company (NYSE symbol: EMT) which is one of the several different companies providing long distance telephone communications in Brazil (as regulated by market laws, which are now acknowledged by the Brazilian Constitution).
we paid for a phone line
we paid for electricity
we bought this computer with over a month's salary
we paid for ISP
we wasted time looking for pr0n
now we have no food, medicine, education, clothes, heating/cooling, etc. etc. etc.
BUT WE ARE ON-LINE NOW.
do they seriously think that making a poor hovel internet capable fixes the greater problem?
you can put cinnoman on a horse apple and I still won't be eating it.
-- there is no point in pulling the pud... if you do it right.
First, try to learn the difference between "it's == it is" and the possessive pronoun "its".
I forgot to punch the "Post Anonymously" button, -1, Flamebait...
Would public schools be able to afford this computer along with a telephone line?
In that case, this project could be a success in that respect.
I'm a Brazilian, which issues are those? (BTW, who is the "pete" who you love so much?)
The other point is, who is paying for this. If the government is sucking up the "loss" in the sales,
It's NOT subsidized, other than not having "intellectual property" on the design. It was designed by UFMG, the Federal University of Minas Gerais, and the design may be freely used by anyone. Ever heard of Free Software? This is Free Hardware. The chips, power supply, circuit boards, manufacturer's profit, taxes, etc, all add up to about $200. This is not a subsidy. It's those who pay more for "patented" designs who are suckers...
Another item of interest is that Brazil is taking this very seriously. The architecture has been tested, they are talking of introducing a new telephone dialling code 0100 exclusiely to keep calls from these machines free for the locals, and further, it ios proposed that each school and publuc building get a machine.
This is a very progressive action by a government. It is not unusual though, as similar comments have been heard from many third world countries. Brazil has stated it as follows (relying on Babelfish for the translation...) "A personal computer, without mobile parts, that function with opened software, of public domain, constructed to take the Internet of favour the schools, ranks of health, microcompanies and small communities... with cost zero for the final user."
I read recently that the WindowsME license is more expensive than the average monthy salary in Nigeria. This is where GPL and public domain really contribute to world prosperity.
Here is a link of interest Algeria has less than 6% telephone density (about one phone per 20 people), and an average ISP (there are only three) costs about 25% of the average person's income.
Bringing the world a little closer to people like this is a calling worthy of Linux. Built by the people for the people.
Three cheers
.. if only.
It IS intended for schools. The lower middle class will be able to buy it for $200, in 24 monthly payments, but the primary target is public shools and libraries.
In my case, they're all different generations of technology. Most of them wouldn't even be usable if it weren't for a skilled administrator hacking and patching them together.
IMHO, schools and the like would be better off with volunteers offering time to help set up and maintain these systems. And of course super cheap MS licenses (high-school educated people can't get jobs with KOffice alone)
The geeks can slam MS, go dumpster diving, and build 12 computer LANs running an assortment of OSes. There's no need to spoonfeed leading edge technical skills to those without initiative nor inspiration.
And what is wrong with writing, reading and mathematics? What can be taught on modern machines which can't be taught on ancient ones? Programming, keyboarding? or do kids need industry skills... isn't that what college is for?
really, i'm tired of hear this bullshit of my countryman, weeping about how poor and ignorant Brasil is. the litany (or opera bouffe) is everytime the same: "Let me weep over my cruel fate, And that I long for freedom!" (Rinaldo, Haendel). I know that the brazilian economy is fucked up, but times are changing. this last push of brazilian government is very laudable. you know, open source is a integrant part of social forms! this push will help a lot the work of people like Rodrigo Baggio. Poor peolple from outskirts are longing for rescue their aplomb! I know that! I give all my old computers to local rappers and I can tell you: their very eyes shine before an old box carring a cyrix dx2/66...
A computer is a luxury. In the real world, people who have money for luxuries can afford one (normally, after they get a TV. NOBODY would buy a PC before a TV - if you think they would, you need to leave pixel land and return to reality).
If they don't have money for a PC in the first place, they would just sell the PC and pay for other essentials.
The digital divide is just another symptom of the economic gap. You can't fix it by throwing around PCs. It's a fashionable idea for clueless idealists, though.
And let's face it - "digital divide" has a nice sound to it. So it'll stick around for a few years.
w/m
On a differnt note, there once was a planet that tried to seperate their bright and creative people from their hair dressers, telephone sanitation people and types like that ....
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This is a hoax
Come on! Just look at some of the crazy terms the submitter made up:
Pimenta da Veiga
Conectiva
KOffice
Brazillian Government
I mean,seriously, if you're gonna submit this bullshit at least make it sound somewhat believable.
"It's all right, it's ok. There's something to live for" - Uncle Bill
Since one fiscal year, here, in Quebec, everyone that gets the government tax funding for childrens has the right to claim :
- 500 CA$ rebate on a brand new complete system (at least the box + a screen +...) - 16$/month rebate for a 24-month subscription to a government-approved ISP (means that the ISP has to be a Quebec company, whatever that means).I do think it's about time governments start thinking helping someone else that big corporations.
The offer helds until march this year, and I do not know if they mean to carry on with it.Of course, I'm a hard-code Kommunizt zealot.
[Pruneau
A lot of people are complaining about the US government not doing enough for people. Someone was talking about a house having a dozen computers and how they don't need that many (like that person knows what their current situation is). I have news for you people who think taxing the heck out of some people and giving free computers to others WON'T HELP.
Giving people handouts don't pull people out of poverity. That's been proven many times during the past few decades. What does work? Local communities pulling together and helping local people who need the help. The Federal government shoving free computers everywhere doesn't help.
So instead of whining and complaining that "rich" people need to pay higher taxes to help "poor" people, go out and use your technological backgrounds and go volunteer somewhere.
I would like to know something. For all you people who say the Federal government should raise taxes and all that, what do you think of President Bush's plan for faith-based groups helping their local communities? Are you saying "Great, they are finalky doing something that may help?" Or are you saying, "Separation of Church and State!!! This is a horrible ideal!!! The religous right are trying to impose their values on us!!!!" The question (IMO) is to tell the difference between people who really want to help verses the people who are socialists and just talking the political talk (I'm not saying Socialism is evil - although I personally don't agree with it).
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you!
There have been a few "anti Digital Divide" posts in this discussion already, but most of them revolve around the "computer is a luxury" issue, and that you shouldn't go around buying them for people for that reason. I don't buy into that logic exactly, but it's not far off the mark.
The real reason that Internet access can't be considered a panacea for poverty is because, regardless of what the New Economy blowhards tell you, the average Joe can't use a computer to generate wealth. You need to be able to use it to create something that people are willing to shell out bucks for - a video game, or spreadsheet programs, or at the very least, your own services (presumably using a program written by someone else).
The real economic impact of the Internet is that it has allowed businesses to leverage resources they already had in different ways. Unfortunately, the truly poor in Brazil don't have any resources. This is what makes folks who get breathless about E-Bay ending poverty so funny. You can't make any money at all off E-Bay, unless you have something to sell. Otherwise, you might as well be pr0n trolling.
There's a very real chance that small businesses in Brazil will be able to do something useful with this, assuming someone is smart enough to capitalize on their newfound net access, and can effectively target them. If the government is smart in how they distribute them, they may even be able to steer their citizens towards educational resources for their kids. But to the average guy squatting in a shanty town not far outside Rio, Internet access means (with apologizes to Buffy the Vampire Slayer) "pictures of pretty things I can't have."
-----
"You owe me a case of beer. Sucka'."
Will everyone really need a PC? PCs are mostly useful for clerical and technical work and entertainment. A large percentage of people in the US who don't have a PC, don't want one either. Sometimes, as I sit here all day staring at this box I wonder if they have a point.
In the mean time, I do what I can. I DO give extra equipment to friends who ask for it AND can use it. I have a hard enough time helping my wife, brother, mother, sister and brother in law. Talk about a nightmare heterogenious network to adminster, sheesh. I did point out to an old proffesor of mine that most Linux distros come with a working FORTRAN compiler as his department has none. I am a member of the local LUG, and do work to help those who show some ability and desire to help themselves. Dumping old computers on people who don't have the time to administer them is useless, even harmful. Small things can help do help, but charity begins in the home.
You would be amazed at what people do with opertunity. My gradfater took the time to teach one of his dirt poor Mississippi patients to read and write. That man whent on to become very rich selling hardwood to automobile companies, and his company provided many people with good jobs. Oh yeah, my grandfather got through school on scholarships.
This PC initiative will create some more opertunities for Brazilians. Every piece of procuctivity added to a society makes that society that much richer. People who get these machines will train themselves on how to use it, sparing many company hours of time. Because these boxes will run Linux, their understaning and ability to manipulate will be much better. Everyone will benifit as they fashion new tools for themselves that they will share. The extra time and wealth these machines create will make other things possible, like teaching someone to read and write. No one is going to loose out.
Destruction is singular. Production is multiplicative. I help you, you help someone else, and the chain goes on, up and down. If ever you doubt the close contact of all classes of people in the world, just look at the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, and rest assured that the small world paradox is true.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Of course, the article is in Portuguese, so you'll have to either trust me or wait for somebody to translate (I haven't scrolled down yet, maybe somebody already did).
P.S.: People able to afford $200 on something here are not "quite wealthy". They're middle class, just like in the USA. The difference is, only about 10% of people here are middle-class, versus 89% poor and 1% obscenely rich.
In order for Moore's law to dictate the half life of the "digital divide" it would need to say something about the rate of decline in retail price of computers. Unfortunately, that is not what Moore's law talks about: it says that the feature geometry of integrated circuits doubles every 18 months, which is only one factor in the retail price of products which use integrated circuits.
The actual half-life of the "digital divide," as measured by the price for an entry level home computer, has been declining steadily since the mid-'80s, but not by 50% every 18 months. While you may be able to purchase twice as much of any given computer resource (memory, storage, instructions-per-second) every 18 months, this is not due to a decrease in system price, but to an increase in system performance, while prices stayed, largely, fixed. The actual rate of decline in the price of computer systems is more like 10% per year, over the past 15 years, which makes the half-life of the digital divide something more like 5-years (especially when we also account for wage and price inflation).
With a half-life of 5-years, the "digital divide" will be essentially gone (less than 10% of the world population will be offline) by 2050. Long before then, however, the "digital divide" will have lost any political power it may currently have: by 2010 we can expect that less than one quarter of the world population will be offline.
hmmm, well lets see what a search on yahoo brings up... for "community computer access"
search results
it seems to me that there are a TON of non profit organizations throughout the united states with the sole purpose of providing cheap computers and cheap/free internet access and training to individuals.
now, considering most are non-profit, that means that they get tax incentives from the government, federal grants and subsidies, as well as local government incentives.
now how can you say something like your above statement?