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UCITA Fight Comes to Texas
ILikeRed writes "Well, you mentioned this story more than once, and even gave advice on fighting it. But now the UCITA has come to Texas, my home state, so I am hoping you will send out the word, so we can show that people do not want this legislation, even if it is in Compaq's back yard. And here I thought they were supposed to be a company that got it - can anyone submit a full list of companies supporting this thing? Might be a good cause for a boycott...."
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>i) Companies, and more importantly consumers,
> won't always be able to know what their risks
> are because this law allows for terms of
> contract which can only be read after the
> product has been purchased
None of the software that I use at home or at work was purchased.
>ii) Backdoors and timebombs in software will be
I doubt Linus will put a backdoor into my software. It is possible, but he has been trustworthy in the pas.
>another way of looking at it is a pharmacutical
>law which places the burden of certification of
> drugs on the consumer
Now this is straining your credibility as an upright anonymous coward very far. Can you imagine the uproar when my grandma and yours are asked to set up a little drug certification laboratory in their kitchens? What congresscritter or judge is going to say "Look granny, you make some might tasty cookies in your kitchen. Are you telling the court that you can't certify an itty bitty little pill in that kitchen of yours?" Somehow, I find it hard to think that would happen.
>Put snidely, if you're serious about this, you're
> on crack.
You say that like it's a bad thing!
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
You need to write to your congresscritter and let them know that UCITA is actually hostile to the interests of business. Or rather, it would benefit the minority of businesses (the ones who license software) at the expense of all other businesses (the licenscees of the aforementioned software). According to the article, Phillips Petroleum is one of the companies lobbying against the passage of UCITA. Does Texas have any large software firms that will benefit greatly from UCITA? Does Texas have any large petroleum companies which stand to get screwed if UCITA passes? Make sure your congressman knows who butter's his bread.
Why would Compaq support UCITA? Don't they owe their existence to reverse engineering?
Microsoft exists because IBM was too afraid of antitrust scrutiny to buy them or demand exclusive licensing rights to DOS. Hypocrisy doesn't really seem to bother anyone these days...
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Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
Keep in mind most Congressmen pay attention to the voters rougly like this:
1. PACs
2. Rich/Influential Folk (not you or anyone you know)
3. People who write letters by hand (e.g. Old Folks)
4. People who write letters (the rest of us)
Several Congressmen have stated that they flat out ignore emailed messages and Internet petitions. Remember that they are old technology, with old habits. Email is for biznesses and for getting pictures of the grandkids.
Seems to me that this power is contingent upon "promoting the progress of science and useful arts". It's not at all clear that the UCITA will result in progress in the sciences and useful arts.
If you look at the exit polls from the last election, 91% of Blacks in Texas said they voted for Gore, while 54% of Hispanics voted for him. 73% of Whites voted for Bush.
A funny aside: for some inexplicable reason Bush the Lesser is popular with Texas Hispanics. That just goes to show that if you speak a little Spanish Latinos will vote for you in droves no matter how fucked up your policies are. You don't even have to speak Spanish well, as Bush manages to mangle Spanish much worse than he does the English language.
I would have used the voting actual results, but after searching the web I found that those results are hard to come by, and the Houston Comical wants money to access their archive. Fuck that noise...
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You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
A man who wants nothing is invincible
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You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
A man who wants nothing is invincible
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You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
A man who wants nothing is invincible
I feel like picking a fight with everyone who thinks they are right. - Rainmakers
In any case, I'm writing my TX Rep and TX Senator with sound, reasonable reasons to oppose UNITA. My wife has a trip planned to the Legislature and I can easily tag along to visit my reps. Always better to have something to talk about. We'll see who they listen to.
My fellow Texans, please do a little research on Ucita, find out why you don't like it (yes I'm biased), and write to your state representatives, asking them to vote against this bill. You can find your House Representative here and your Senator here.
Sorry, dude, but I suspect Congress actually would have a leg to stand on here.
While it's usually used in an overbroad sense, I'd say that the Interstate Commerce Clause would apply here, and legitimately, too!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I think the biggest problem is the implications for Free/GPL software, re: the shrink wrap/liability problems.. ESR, I believe, wrote a really good piece on this a little while ago? It was on slashdot like less than two weeks ago. Anybody got the link?
The gist of it is that companies that *sell* shrink-wrapped software can escape from liability suits using shrink-wrap licenses, whereas open source software would somehow be liable, since there is no EULA/shrink wrap license... Moreover, there was an even further danger that somehow these suits would be applied retroactively so even existing software released under the GPL would suddenly become a target.
I don't think it's a conincidence that the first few states that have had the UCITA passed have big, established tech companies (not some Johnny-come-lately dot-coms) with powerful lobbies. There are probably some people behind the scenes who have planned out a strategy of first going after a few states with big tech lobbies such as VA and TX (in addition to Compaq and Dell, Texas also has lots of commercial software shops, including "id", as well as a bunch of telecom companies). Then, after they've gained some momentum, they'll quickly go after the big states like WA and CA. After that, the rest of the states will follow suit, because they don't want to get "left behind".
It's sad, but I see little anyone can do about it. Big business rules this country with an iron fist. Whatever they want, they get.
Free Hans!
You should be able to track down the author of the bill and the committee who is responsible for it on: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/ I would write the author, the committee members, the governor and any news groups or interested parties who you can think of in Texas. More voices are important. There should be some support in the academic community. As far as legislators are concerned hard copy still means more to them than electronic. Good luck.
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
The article here asks for a list of companies supporting this. Top of the list is Microsoft. One of their stooges actually helped write this evil piece of crap. For this, if nothing else, they are damned. Check out the affect (formerly 4cite.org) website
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Lucky them! They won't know for months whether it passed!
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
I'm thankful that the NCCUSL folks (who wrote UCITA) are really pretty fucking stupid. The "remote self-help" clause is attracting negative attention like dead meat attracts flies. If they'd had any brains, they would have left it out. That wouldn't have made the law much better, but it would have made opposition more difficult.
Really, it's a prefect issue for the opposition. "Do you want Microsoft to remotely disable Windows?" is a much easier question for Joe TechoPhobe [R-TX] to answer than some convoluted thing about enforcing shrink-wrap licenses.
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Beyond the points about interstate commerce laws that have already been raised here, the UCITA essentially deals with intellectual property rights, and the power to deal with those have been relegated to Congress: From Section 8 of article 1 of the Constitution:
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... and throw the brakes on the biggest economic boom we've had in years (powered by those tech companies, which will suffer because of the UCITA).
Umm.... Have you taken a look at the stock market lately? Looks like the economic boom has had the brakes put on it already.. -- Sarcasm is a wonderful thing.
Appropriate quote:
I just felt a great disturbance in the force, as if a million voices suddenly cried out, and were silenced.
UCITA, Death Star of the consumer's software rights?
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
Find out where TI (they make dsp chips remember?) stands on this. Another industry veteren on OS' side would be otay!
Can you imagine Ross Perot advocating open source? lol!
"Me Ted"
BOSTON SUCKS!
know that this has been defeated in the past, but I have a feeling that many of the... how do I say this without flaming people... "hick" states will pass this.
Hick states, such as Texas, which I sadly call home, will indeed be quick to pass such legislation. Why?
Whereas the political system in the rest of the country operates on the principals of influence, Texas congressmen make the wages of paid volunteers. Only the rich and elite can afford to be a state representative in Texas. Even then, they depend on graft, 'favors', and kickbacks to make it all worth while.
For example, our 'Railroad' commission has power to regulate the state's oil industry for the good of the citezens of Texas. Right?
This attitude of favoritism means that the Railroad Commision is peopled entirely by chairmen and executives of the oil industry. How's that for fair legislation?
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
There are a couple of key players to write to in Texas. First, write to your state rep and senator. Write to the chairs of the committees that have the bill (see the links others have posted), letting them know that you have written to your rep/senator and vice versa. you should also contact the Governor and the State Attorney General. The AG in Texas is a sort of consumer ombudsman position, as well as the state's civil lawyer.
I started lobbying my rep. last October. Since he is an electrical engineer and software developer, I thought that he might be a key player in the debate. From what he has told me, he was being consulted by other reps for his opinion. He is very, very concerned about UCITA and feels it is a bad law. So, write a polite letter expressing your opposition, don't flame the proponents, and if you have a business you might do it on letterhead in your business persona.
More on UCITA
Personally speaking, congress won't let this fly as its an unfair practice, and judging from this articles stance on a company not caring about any mistake you make when clicking something, its BS.
For a company to not honor a request, complaint, etc would leave a sour taste in anyones mouth. Its more (UCITA) than just an agreement between vendor and client, and it certainly won't deter reverse engineering or piracy. One thing people STILL seem to miss in these articles is, the WORLD DOES NOT revolve around U.S. laws.
360 degrees of Karma
That, or convince the people that UCITA will hurt the NRA.
Impatiently waiting for my popcorn to pop in the microwave
If someone could convince Bush that laws like these are actually hurting corporations, instead of helping it, you might find support from an unlikely source. It couldn't hurt to send of letters to him too. He might be concerned if his home state could be threatened (although he should be equally concerned about the country as a whole)
The UCITA is completely insane, not because of some of its claim, but because it's binding without any of the elements of a contract.
... ". I'd even perhaps pay for beta software if it solved a problem I'd been having. And maybe sign an NDA agreeing not to slam the product for bugs because it's still a beta. That's fine, I'd go into it knowing what I was contracting not to say and what the limits were (till out of beta.)
If you want to spell out a contract where I'm not allowed to tell others about some thing, that's fine. It's called an NDA. You have to precisely spell out what I can't tell people, I look at it, decide if I like it, and agree to it because you offer me something in return.
The UCITA doesn't require the customer to be able to see the contract for it to be binding. It allows clauses like retroactive changes (with the onus of checking for this on the customer). It allows companies to sell products that are completely different from what was advertised and sue anyone who publicises this fact.
Any of these decisions, on their own, in an informed scenario, would be okay. I occasionally buy 'as is' merchandise that isn't guaranteed to work. That's fine because this merchandise is required to be marked 'as is'. It's not enough that they say "well, it should have been obvious because of
It's only when you pass a law that makes shrinkwrap licenses, which can state any and all of this, binding that you screw the consumers.
The UCITA even allows companies to remotely disable your software if they think that you've violated the license. The incredibly broad license that could theoretically prevent make it a violation if you told your neighbor that you thought one product was better than another. And they can disclaim all responsibility for damages that this may cause. If you take any measures to prevent this (even a firewall) you could very well be tried under the DMCA for disabling an access control mechanism.
No other industry allows blanket disclaimers to be binding. If you sign a disclaimer at a hospital and they perform a sex change instead of an apendectomy you can sue them, regardless of any disclaimer you may have signed absolving them of responsibility.
If you buy a car, you can return it if it's a lemon, regardless of you having bought it. If you take that car to an independant dealer for a tune-up, they can't cancel your warranty. Ditto if you buy user servicable parts (spark plugs) to replace the ones the product came with. Ford can't cancel your warranty or sue you because you used GM-approved tires.
If you buy a TV the company can't dictate what you can play on it.
In no other industries do we allow laws that so blatantly screw the consumer.
We shouldn't accept the software companies line about how software is a new paradigm, etc. etc. We should hold them to the same rules as any other business in any other industry.
Do you honestly think that companies should be allowed to do any of that?
UCITA is not about improving the business climate by passing uniform laws. It is tailored for the benefit of and sponsored by a minority of companies within a single industry (a few big software companies). Leaving consumers aside completely, it should be pretty clear that companies outside this exclusive fraternity do not stand to benefit from this law. Indeed the measure is designed to establish new privileges for its sponsors at the expense of everyone else -- consumers, government and business at large
So, when you talk to you your rep, rather than berating them for being a rednecked toadies to business interests, maybe you should put on your suit and be very concerned about the negative affect on the TX business climate, and in particular the power it will give large out of state companies over TX.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Given that the majority of the congresscritters in the Lege are devoted to one thing and one thing only (namely "fostering a healthy biddness climate"), it's almost certain to pass in Texas[1]. This state has a long history of passing pretty much anything a business lobbyist asks for. If you need an example of this consider the grandfathering of pollution emitting plants that lead to things like the Alcoa smelter in Rockdale (one of the largest sources of airborne pollutants in texas and possibly the west becuase it has no pollution controls and burns lignite[2] at a prodigious rate; a few years back there was a ruckus over this and "something must be done!" so a "Strong Resolution" was passed that basically told the grandfathered plants they should clean up and if they didn't then the State would send them to their rooms without dessert. :-( It's easy to get real mad if you're a texas liberal.).
[1] the Lege and executive offices are all dominated by Republicans now, and even if it were the other way the Democrats here are usually so conservative they'd be Republicans anywhere else...
[2]lignite is a "soft" coal that's very common. Its main virtue is that it is cheap (easy to mine becuase it's close to the surface, and common). Its disadvantages are: it is close to the surface so usually it's strip mined, which has long-term negative effects on the local environment; and it is very high in sulfur content, the burning of which leads to SOx in the atmosphere, which is a greenhouse gas IIRC and also leads to the formation of acidic rainfall. The Rockdale smelter burns millions of tons of this crap every year.
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News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
When UCITA came to my home state, Maryland, I was informed by several consumer/library advocates that lobbyists from Microsoft and AOL were in attendence and vocally in favor of UCITA.
Here is some pro-UCITA propaganda its proponents have put up:
The Software and Information Industry Association (SIIA)'s UCITA brief; and here are the SIIA's members.
And my all-time favorite, the Business Software Alliance's Why Software Professionals Should Support [UCITA] (And What Will Happen If They Don't.
The BSA consists of Adobe, Apple, Compaq, Dell, IBM, Intel ... and, of course, Microsoft. Here is a list of member companies.
Additionally, if you want a good "Who's-Who" on UCITA, check out the comments filed at the Federal Trade Commission's recent conference on High-Tech Warranties.
If you're interested, here is a site I threw up concerning UCITA and EULAs. I wrote a letter to Maryland governor Glendening opposing UCITA, and here's the nebulous reply I got back.
Sincerely,
Vergil
Vergil Bushnell
Insects and Grafitti Photos
From InfoWorld's Gripe Line a couple weeks ago:
So it's basically software companies (and the hardware companies that are co-dependent) vs. the rest of the corporate world.
Besides, plenty of people already know that proprietary software sucks - but they still use it anyway. Open Source software and OSs are just not appealing enough to the everyday casual user, whether they be corporate or private, for people to make the switch. And because of this, UCITA will pass and consumers will be fucked. Some will make the switch to non-UCITA, Open Source software but the vast will not. Unfortunately, they will pay the ultimate price. What is even more unfair is that they will pay this price because they may not be tech savvy enough to make an informed choice for software. Consumer rights with respect to software should not be available only to the savvy users (or those savvy in legalise, who can understand many of the cryptic license agreements).
We've already seen how the RIAA and MPAA have twisted and perverted the DMCA. It should be expected that the companies supporting UCITA will do the same.
Full disclosure: I stole the link from this guy's post but it's an excellent article that should show up several times for this story.
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We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
As a Texan, I can very firmly say that I heartily disagree with the provisions in the UCITA. I can't help but wonder, though, with the sheer level of "Good ol' Boy" style corruption evident in our grand state, if this will not be forced through sooner or later because someone's kids got a scholarship at UT, or something. This sort of thing goes on all the time... If it does go through and becomes widley accepted, I wonder if companies who are in a situation that would make it hard for them to tolerate the provisions of the bill would start using and supporting Open Source projects, which are by definition immune to the idiocies found within the UCITA. Think about it. If Bell Helicopter, which produces the (in)famous 'tiltroter' helicopter were to suddenly lose its ability to operate because of a license dispute, wouldn't they be a hell of a lot more likely to use Open Source software rather than Closed Source software from the likes of M$ and Compaq? I wonder...
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
If you're still not sure why you should oppose the UCITA, Cem Kaner has a good essay you should read. This is not just another bad law. This is the bad law of the decade, which could cripple consumer choice in the software industry and throw the brakes on the biggest economic boom we've had in years (powered by those tech companies, which will suffer because of the UCITA).
Write your congressperson and get some Federal legislation to preempt the UCITA. And more importantly, write your own state representative, because the only way to defeat will probably be on a state-by-state basis.
Supporters of UCITA always point to the "Right of Return" clause saying that it gives greater protection to the consumers than they currently have.
Last year, Maryland passed UCITA which went into effect in October. I noticed that all the major software retailers (Best Buy, Staples, Office Max, etc.) still have signs saying that there is no returns allowed on opened software. Has anyone in Maryland or Virginia tried to return software because they disagreed with the license? What were your experiences?
I feel like picking a fight with everyone who thinks they are right. - Rainmakers
Why would Compaq support UCITA? Don't they owe their existence to reverse engineering?
(Compaq built the first IBM PC clone by reverse engineering the IBM BIOS)
Maybe tell them that they violated their license agreement and you are there to remove the software from their computer. After blood returns to their face explain that this situation is not far fetched....except that they can do it over the internet the weekend before the next election. No due process, no notice.
Fight Spammers!
UCITA has been introduced in the Texas Senate as SB 709 by Sen John Carona, a Republican representing District 16 in Dallas.
HB 1785 has been referred to the House Business and Industry Committee but is not yet scheduled for a hearing. Likewise, SB 709 has been referred to the Senate Business and Commerce Committee but has yet to be scheduled for a hearing. These committees will be holding hearings on the bills before the bills will go on to their respective houses for floor votes.
If you live in Texas, look up the email address of the Senator and Representative for whom you are a constituent at this page here.
If UCITA interests you, send them a short and concise email telling them about UCITA and how they should vote on it, and why they should vote that way. Be polite. Texas legislators are usually very receptive to communications from their constituents.
Expect that most legislators will not be familiar with the issues involved with UCITA, and that what education they are getting on it is probably coming from lobbyists. So help inform them.
The current legislative session will be ending in May, so if UCITA can't get passed out of committee and then passed in both houses, the software lobby will have to wait until 2003 for the next session of the legislature.
Hope this helps.
Ed
Why is this legislation so terrible? Companies need to examine their legal obligations to determine their risk. If the risk of having your software stop working is too great a risk, then don't take it. Find alternatives.
Slews of Microsoft shops will suddenly see the reason why proprietary software sucks.
Moderators: if you think this is a troll, you're on crack. I'm serious about this.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
As previously mentioned, the UTICA regulations are perhaps the worst thing ever to come out of a committee. Period.
what everyone seems to foget is the Achille's Heel of the proposals: Only Large Software Companies Benefit. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, else is hurt.
Look at some of the opposition groups/members:
While most people (including the representatives) seem to assume that Business(tm) is all for UTICA, this is simply NOT TRUE. And therein lies the way to effectively fight it:
If you can get something like this reasonably organized, when your rep gets 2 dozen angry letters from companies of all sizes and industries in his district, he's going to be reallllly cautious about the Bill, and that's what you want - serious debate, not a rubber-stamp. Because, in a serious debate, UTICA will lose. There are too many opposition members. UTICA's only hope is to ram it through (or sneak it in) before the opposition can organize. Don't Let That Happen.
-Erik, who is busily practicing what I preach here in Silicon Valley.
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.