Slashdot Mirror
Episode II and Computer Animated Actors
Mr. Fusion writes "I'm sure this might affect the actor's union one day, but News.com is reporting that Lucas is going to have an animated lead CGI character in the next Star Wars movie. As long as they leave out Jar-Jar, I'll enjoy the ride." This is a fluff interview, but its interesting for me (I'm an animation junkie of course). Talks about the work he's doing on clothing, hair, and skin texturing. All interesting. I'd love pictures tho.
Digital characters are too "perfect".
Not to my way of thinking. The digital characters looked too "cartoony" to me. They stretched and moved non-realistically at times. Jar-Jar was the most glaring example. Of course, there were some really good ones. Watto comes to mind, but his facial expressions certainly did have a "Looney Toons" feel to them. The Destroyers were very good. The battle droids were a disappointment, they seemed to be moon-walking at times.
In the end, Yoda looked the best. Why? He was really there, on the set and given life by Frank Oz.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
On the other hand, that statement you quoted from the article is very carefully worded with qualifiers, such as "major" release, "lead" character, and the emphasis on live-action (neatly sidestepping Toy Story 1 & 2, Antz, and A Bug's Life). He seems to know he's not the first, and is just trying to make it sound like he is. He probably considers all other movies to not be "major" releases, thus ensuring that he is the FIRST! (in a "major" release).
Kinda reminds me of those car commercials where they say "IT"S GOT THE MOST HORSEPOWER (in its class)".
Free Hans!
Clone Wars in the world of the Jedi
Clone Wars in the world of Hollywood
Something else for Hollywood to worry about. Once the CGI editors become common place, then any kid with a good workstation can put out a high grade story, depending on skill. Complete with fancy actors.
Of course, most of it will be porn staring the cgi versions of the pop and movie stars of the day.
But there will have to be a new version of the copyright law, because otherwise the MPAA will have a nightmare beyond imagining. For one thing, a sufficiently advanced form of a CGI animation would actually act like midi, notating movement and elements of the scene, not encoding the actors directly.
imagine pirated modules of copyrighted stars, fully editable by the user.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
He won't be the first to do this. The final fantasy movie is coming out July 13th, and will be COMPLETELY computer animated.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Those folks are the ones who are the furthest from being replaced.
The best targets for replacement are crowd scenes (where a small group can be replicated) and the over-priced stars.
(Much like Spielberg realizing how badly Temple of Doom sucked, and apologizing to his fans via The Last Crusade.)
Just because it's possible doesn't mean you have to do it.
...
Please just give me a kickass Star Wars movie that doesn't suck
I really don't think I am willing to support George Lucas anymore by watching his films. I give him credit for making some serious breakthroughs with the original Star Wars movies, but even so, the movies themselves weren't really that spectacular. Not to mention that he seems bent on squeezing every drop of money out of Star Wars fans that he can possibly get. No, thanks.
Funny that the Star Wars characters 20 years ago are going to look better than these current digital characters.
Carl
Vote Libertarian
Well, at least somebody got my point, thanks. My point being, of course, that it IS just a movie, the venom is uncalled for (or, more likely, a sign of deep psychological problems), and that George is not necessarily the Epitome Of All That Is Evil. Control freak, quite likely. EOATIE, I don't think so.
sig fault
I know a lot of people will be naysaying, but I say let's give a big hand to our new
Star Wars character, Darth Shiny!!!
When the Nubian ship supposedly carrying Padme lands..
Just one question: what's a Nubian?
Gollum will by CGI. The Balog, perhaps some of
the others too.
With good direction and animation, there's no reason that CG characters can't be every bit as compelling as real-time humans; Jar-Jar notwithstanding. He would have been just as annoying as a guy in a rubber suit with the same lines.
Give Lucas and his animators a chance before you slag them. They've got a lot of work ahead of them; and I'm sure that most of that work will end up on the screen. It all comes down to story, as it always does.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
First of all computers are cool and so animation is cool.
But secondly and most importantly at least we know Leonardo di Caprio isn't going to play the lead character.
Who would own the copyright if you could mix and match mannerisms, such as if you had a CGI Frank Sinatra and gave him the mannerisms of of John Wayne?
At the end of movies, a disclaimer which goes something like "any resemblance to persons living or dead is coincidental". I assume they run this because a resemblance which is not coincidental can get them in legal trouble. If they decided to make a CGI character which resembled Frank Sinatra and John Wayne, that wouldn't be a coincidental resemblance.
I would bet that you are going to see hordes of clone warriors, all CGI rendered.
Personally I don't think it'd affect any actors union for one of a few reasons.
Judging by the success and overall nature of Lucas Films I think he's doing the movie solely to please himself, then the fans.
vroom vroom
360 degrees of Karma
OK, so I was 7 when Star Wars came out- and God! I loved it. I also loved Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
Now I am older, and I have to say "I loved Phantom Menace!"
There was a sort of initial disappointment, but that was because it had a hell of a lot to live up to. When I'd watched it a few more times I was convinced- it was at least as good as, if not better than the other 3.
Just listen to the new main theme- "Duel of the Fates" (or whatever it's called)- it rocks as much as the Imperial Theme from the earlier films, IMNSHO.
And the lightsabre fights? They are without a doubt a whole level above Obi-Wan's pathetic attempts in Star Wars, and even above Luke and Vader in Empire and ROTJ.
OK, so there isn't a really big space battle in the film and it doesn't have Darth Vader in it- but appart from that- what else could you want?
Yeah, some of the dialogue and acting sucks, but it did in the first three- in fact some of the lines from the first 3 films are classics with me because of the lame way they are delivered! "Shuttle Tiderian, please trnasmit the codes for shield deactivation" and the bit about finding a rebel base on Dantooine "but they estimate that it has been abandoned for some time". OK so we are talking very minor character's lines in the first three that sucked as opposed to main characters- but I think that George Lucas was just very lucky in the "unknowns" he picked for Star Wars.
It has been said before- but it bears repeating- People who saw the first 3 films as kids, then saw Phantom Menace, somehow think that the film should have "grown up" with them, but it hasn't- it's still at the same level as the other 3, which you can say is "for kids" or alternatively, "for all ages".
I think you get much better criticisms from people when they compare the first 3- i.e. some poeple say that Empire is the best because it's darker, (or because it had different writers) etc.- other people, more concerned with epic action prefer Return of the Jedi, and didn't like Empire because of the "Luke training" bits. Etc. Etc.
As for Jar-Jar Binks, I thought he was hilarious, and I think a lot of other people thought so too. I mean, I can see how people disliked the Ewoks, but Jar-Jar. What? He talks funny? Slashdotters love this as a rule- AYBABTU anyone?
In fact I think that the spread of "Jar Jar Sucks" posts are probably related to the AYBABTU phenomenon- i.e. stick with what the mob likes, and diss the things the mob hates, and you'll be alright. I mean- we are slashdotters- we're supposed to be more mature than this. Also we're supposed to like computer stuff, i.e. CGI.
Now, it's obvious that Lucas would be a big fan of CGI, and that his 3 prequals would use lots of it. You have to remember that the other 3 films used a lot of technologically-advanced stuff for their day, so George Lucas hasn't changed in his attitude.
And people slagging off George Lucas for wanting to make money? What a surprise- Slashdotters slag off anyone who wants to make money. It almost seems like they want to me able to make money themselves without allowing anyone else to do so. (Or are we all really eco-warriors typing this from our psychedelically-painted trailers?)
You see, slashdotters typically slag off commercial Operating Systems and software and praise the free ones, but with films they're fucked- because you couldn't really make a decent film on an extremely low budget. (OK, so there was Blair Witch, which was shit overall, but at least had a "Why didn't I think of that?" idea).
Basically, I am criticising the majority of slashdotters for being shallow and hypocritical. (Whoooooh! Like, THAT'S novel....)
Graspee
Arseholes like opinions. Everyone is one.
VEIL OF THE SITH
There is unrest in the Galactic Senate. Several hundred solar systems, under the leadership of the Rebel Leader, Count Dooku, have declared their intentions to secede from the Republic.
This separatist movement has made it difficult for the limited number of Jedi Knights to maintain peace and order in the galaxy.
Senator Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo, is returning to Coruscant to vote on the critical issue of creating an army to assist the overwhelmed Jedi...
---
My understanding is that it's Obi-Wan who fights Jango, in a rain scene. The fight that I haven't heard anything about is the Mace Windu one.......curious that.
The Force Online
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Anybody besides me see the 1996 movie Dragonheart, which included Drago, a CGI generated dragon voiced by Shawn Connery?
Funny, but Draco seemed like a lead character in that story...
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Possibly, but I was thinking FF because it actually looks like it stars real actors. Toy Story was a big milestone in computer animated movies, but it didn't have that element to it...
-- Dr. Eldarion --
They better hope Episode II beats the new live action Scooby Doo movie out. Scooby will be CGI, and the lead character.
Really, Lucas is missing the opportunity of a lifetime here. How exactly is he planning to show Anakin irrevocably turn to the dark side? A lover's quarrel with Amidala? A brainwashing session with Palpatine? What gimmick could possibly be used to turn a cutsy kid into the embodiment of Star Wars Evil, and still remain believable?
Simple. The way to turn Anakin to the dark side is to make him finally get fed up with Jar Jar, and kill him. Maybe the murder would be premeditated, maybe it would seem accidental, but it would alienate all Anakin's goody-goody friends and force Anakin out into the bosom of evil while still leaving him a sympathetic character to the audience. "How could something so morally ambiguous be the crucial step on the road to the dark side?" we will wonder. "Why are the other Jedi all being so hard on Anakin, when we've been imagining gutting Jar-Jar like a trout since Episode I?" Mark my words, this is the only way that Lucas can turn Vader into an evil character that the audience will still identify with, and if he uses it he'll be retroactively vindicating the most annoying parts of Episode I as well. Everyone, keep your fingers crossed.
Everbody's always whining about George's use of digital everything. I find the whole uproar rather confusing (but then, I liked Episode 1, and thought Jar-Jar was kind of amusing, so please feel free to flame away).
I find the whole thing rather confusing because George is just a HACKER, albeit using film and with a great deal more money than any of us, but a hacker none the less. He's exploring what is possible, pushing boundaries, and he's doing it because he wants to. Damn it, he's having fun. He's a geek and you're trying to bullying him, which is pretty sad when you think about it.
Some people seem to think he has a "responsibility" to Star Wars fans. I always thought that attitude was a little odd. Don't tell me that he owes us because he's rich from our money. We each paid for what we got, expecting nothing more - a movie pass, an action figure or a t-shirt. Although some of us (including myself) have something of an "attachment" to Star Wars, and in making it a part of ourselves believe we have some sort of ownership over it, that's not really true (at least under current copyright law).
That's really the whole music sharing argument though - the RIAA is successful because their product became part of our culture (or they bought pieces of our culture, either way...) If something is that deeply ingrained into who we are, why should we have no control over it whatsoever?
Which leads me to the conclusion that popular media is so ingrained into our definitions of ourselves that we can't even separate the two, we have a couple of options. First, anything which becomes wildly popular should become public domain. Second, we could just get un-brainwashed and stop buying this crap. Those two options are complete opposites, but maybe try to do one or the other instead of just whining about it.
sig fault
Let's not forget the other 95% of the SAG that is far from wealthy. The guy who plays "Bank Teller #2" and has maybe three lines is a member also, and there's a whole lot of those folks.
-- Jeff Paulsen
Even with the 3d generated characters, its likely bluescreens
Not if they're using Linux or some other *nix on the render farm ;-)
they'd end up paying more for animation artisits, modelers, renderers, hardware, software, than they'd pay an up and coming actor.
Unless they want a character that doesn't look like Homo sapiens. (For instance, I stopped watching Trek because all the aliens looked like humans with makeup and suits on.) Or perhaps they want to do something else that cannot be achieved with living human actors.
"So use puppets for those." No. Lucas commented that Yoda the muppet was the only "fake" looking character in Episode 5.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
George Lucas seems so obssesed with being "the first" to do everything. Maybe he shoudl concentrate on tryng to make a good movie instead of thinking up more usless but "groundbreaking" applications of CGI while trying to make as much money as possible. I am not looking forward to all the marketing slop being thrown around again.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
(There is no main CG character in Episode II. Possibly in Ep III, but definately *not* in II.)
*This is stolen from Aldera.net*
After the opening crawl, Senator Padme's starship and it's convoy are approaching Coruscant. When the Nubian ship supposedly carrying Padme lands, disguised handmaiden Cordé (played by Veronica Segura) walks down the ramp with her entourage and suddenly there's a huge explosion near the ramp. Padme, who was riding in one of the Nubian's escort fighters, runs to her and they exchange a few quick words before Corde dies. Padme has a quick discussion with Captain Typho (played by Jay Laga'aia) about what to do and then goes to her quarters.
When she arrives safely in her apartment on Coruscant, she calls longtime friend Jar Jar Binks, who's official title is now Representative Jar Jar Binks of the Gungans. In the Senate, Jar Jar stands with Senator Padme on the Naboo platform.
After the Nubian ship was destroyed, Uv Gizen - Supreme Chancellor Palpatine's personal aide - tells Palpatine that Senator Padme is dead. The Senate later convenes on the matter at hand; voting on whether or not to create a clone army for the Republic. Palpatine starts to speak, "My esteemed colleagues, I have received some tragic and disturbing news." He is about to announce Padme's death, but to his surprise, Padme shows up and says that she's ok. She voices her opinions about the lack of safety in the galaxy and the Senate spends the rest of this meeting dwelling on this topic.
Palpatine resolves the issue of Padme's safety by assigning two Jedi Knights to protect her. He asks Mace Windu to specifically assign Obi-Wan and Anakin to this task.
Shortly after comes a meeting in a small room on Coruscant. In the room are Senator Toonbuck Toora, Senator Darsana, Senator Askaak, Bail Organa (played by Jimmy Smits), Jar Jar Binks, and S.C Palpatine. They are discussing the idea of cloning an army for the Republic. Most everyone in the room is for the clone army except Bail Organa and Jar Jar Binks. Bail is undecided, but Jar Jar is definitely against it. In this scene, Palpatine says something like "Sometimes we have to break the law in order to act in its best interest." (Not a direct quote) Clearly he is saying that they must create the Republic clone army whether or not the Senate favors the decision.
Then comes the second meeting in the Senate, in which they discuss purely the idea of creating a clone army for the Republic. Palpatine urges everyone to vote for it. He is backed up by Senator Toonbuck Toora of the Commerce Guild, Senator Orn Free Taa, and the Intergalactic Bank Clan who offer to put up the cash. Bail Organa has a role in this scene as well. Senator Padme also speaks and (I think) she votes for the army.
Later that evening, there is another assassination attempt on Padme in her apartment on Coruscant. Obi-Wan and Anakin are standing guard at the door, and they suddenly both sense something weird. The line "I have a bad feeling about this" is spoken and the two Jedi burst into her quarters.
There is a large droid hovering in Padme's room that has released tons of small insect-like assassination robots called kouhuns. Anakin runs to Padme and clears all the kouhuns off her, meanwhile Obi-Wan jumps out the window and onto the large droid.
When Zam Wesell, the bounty hunter who's controlling the assassination droid via remote control, brings the droid back to her, she see's Obi-Wan dangling from the flying droid. She whips out her gun and starts opening fire on Obi-Wan and the droid. Obi-Wan takes out his lightsaber and starts deflecting her bolts. Zam continues to fire - Obi continues to deflect. Zam realizes she'd better take off, so she gets on her speeder and flies away. Anakin then picks up Obi in a yellow hot rod speeder and they take off after Zam, leading to the chase scene.
I don't think that movie was written around a toy marketing campaign, either. Maybe that's why it rocks so much.
Imagine what a Mulan-style trash-talking miniature dragon would have done to the picture. On second thought, I'd rather not.
Oh, I forgot. You can't compare the two films because SWPM was a kids' movie.
jarjarroastingonaspit.com
Unfortunately Jar Jar is in, it's already been confirmed by Lucas a dozen and a half times.
--
--
silence is poetry.
While the Screen Actors' Guild has had great success, in the past, in getting multi-millionaires to strike for more money, I think that, perhaps, CGI characters might be harder to woo to their unionist side. I'm not suggesting that Jar-Jar would never fight for what he sees as right, but I think getting him out on the picket line could be a little harder:
"Meesa Jar-Jar. Meesa wanna equitable workplace conditions"
So what do they do as opposed to having a real actor standing there while filming? they either A) don't have anytone at all, or B) have a stand in. This is an unneeded barrier for the other actors, one that hinders their acting ability.
I don't think we'll be able to say anything about Episode II even as flattering as we said of Episode I.
-------
CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
With CGI, you will be able to "clone" actors in CGI. Who owns that copyright? Who would own the copyright if you could mix and match mannerisms, such as if you had a CGI Frank Sinatra and gave him the mannerisms of of John Wayne? Or if you could blend from a menu of other characteristics ("click on the drop down menus to select various voice types)
Some day, someone is going to have such a product, something like Photoshop or Gimp for 3D-CGI characters. If the MPAA doesn't own it, they will be terrified of it.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
They're doing CG Yoda so Yoda can show why he's the master... in battle... with duel lightsabers (not those wimpy double ones the Sith use either - two separate lightsabers, at once, with all of his skills in the Force, too)
The only Jedi that is supposed to come close to Yoda in his fighting skills is Mace Windu, and he's pretty badass... as you'll see in Episode II.
BTW, the other reason is that Lucas thought Yoda looked weird in Episode I as the only muppet... Just watch him talk and compare it to any of the other characters. It becomes *really* obvious he's a muppet, and looks fake.
He's always like,"Actors can never do what I want them to do... I much rather use CGI." Which is tauntamount to saying,"Man I suck at directing. I can't ever get people to do what I want them to do. Good thing I have alot of money behind me."
God spoke to me
I dunno, there's still something to be said for real people. This isnt about movie purism or star wars fundamentalism either. I guess I thought that the story and the places it could go would be captivating enough to not have to lean on cg as it will. as far as the strike goes, i'd be willing to wait for the real people to come back... then again maybe i shouldn't post while i have and 102 fever.
"Me Ted"
BOSTON SUCKS!