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AOL Blocking Open Source IM Clones ... Again
jeremie asks: "AOL has been attempting to block access to AIM via Jabber, GAIM, and other open source projects based on libfaim. Both Jabber.org and Jabber.com have issued statements, and are welcoming AOL to work together with the community in creating an open server to server interoperability solution that meets their FCC Conditions." This kind of crap makes me glad that I never completely made the move away from IRC. Of course, this isn't the first time AOL has tried to pull this off, and it seems that the supposed FCC intervention that was supposed to open the AIM protocol has fallen thru. With all of this back and forth on the issue from AOL, do we really need to use their system at all?
...we do need to use their system... with the amount of people already locked up by AOL (AIM, and ICQ users), AOL has us by the balls... I need my ICQ.
AOL needs to be forced to open this up... the FCC failed, the real question is what should be the next course of action.
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
They're a business! Somebody explain to me why thay can't block whomever they want to block from interacting with their servers!?!
El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
I try to convert them to ICQ, but even I admit ICQ is far worse than it was at the beginning - horribly bloated and adding features no one I know gives a damn about. I have ICQ and MSN Messenger running on my system now since it's what friends of mine use. I have two people on MSN, but have to use it to chat with them. If a good friend was using AOL Messenger, I'm sure I'd add that as well.
We don't need AOL Messenger opened up as much as we need a new standard for everyone to use. If we had to use different mail programs to write to people we would be up in arms, but we put up with this IM isolation because we have to. I've tried alternatives to ICQ a couple years ago and they were all substandard. What will it take until some standards body moves in and gives us a standard that everyone has to adopt to? Maybe it's just a pipe dream, but AOL staying private seems like nothing compared to having different standards in my book.
TiK and other clients that use the TOC protocol are fully supported and allowed by AOL. Those clients that are using libfaim for OSCAR support are violating AOL's terms of service in the same way that MSN Messenger was, and it's fully within their rights to shut them down. On a side note, libfaim clients weren't working this morning, but Gaim and others appear to be working fine now. I think Slashdot jumped the gun slightly, much like the last time this happened.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
As mentioned in the slashdot blurb up top, libfaim based clients are broken again. Take note that libfaim is a hacked library. Clients that use TOC/OSCAR to talk to the AIM servers (like Everybuddy [www.everybuddy.org]) continue to work fine.
Although, in many respects it would be desirable for AIM to open up there protocol, they haven't yet. They don't act out against TOC/OSCAR clients, though, and so that's good enough. TOC/OSCAR does have limitations compared to the full protocol, but it's still more than usable. And rather than go whining about how a library that was just a reverse-engineering job was broken, reverse-engineer it again, or use the library that isn't broken.
Now stop crying and get Everybuddy. Or Netscape 6. Or use AOL's quickbuddy. Or, god no, something other than *nux.
-Andrew
One of the nice aspects about Jabber being open source is that a solution can be worked out quickly. Within an hour of AOL blocking Jabber a solution presented itself, and so long as enough people are interested in Jabber that will continue to be the case. I think it's a positive step for Jabber that they're finally not below AOL's radar screen, it means they're gaining popularity and are now considered a threat by AOL.
For those of you who haven't used Jabber yet, you should check it out, it really is the most convenient IM system out there.
It is their service and they have the right to do this, but we, as observers to stupidity, get to comment on the stupidity.
With the proliferation of many different messenger systems, all those AIMers are going to be cut off from their friends who use MSN/Yahoo/ICQ. The motivation to use AIM diminishes as other messengers take off. So instead of AOL joining the community at large, they are creating a substantial, yet isolated community. It is a stupid mistake in the issue of a greater diverse internet. A smart move in the issue of keeping a captive audience. But in the end, they are just shooting themselves in the foot because if you are using AOL, you really don't need AIM to communicate to other AOLers but you will need another messenger to chat with your friends on MSN.
AOL just has a large enough ego to think these companies are clamoring to gain access to their herd of people. That may be partially true, but I believe it is more about these other applications trying to give their users as much versatility as possible, something AOL should think about.
r. ghaffari
Did I just see someone with a Slashdot UID admit to using AOL as an ISP? What's this world coming to? Pretty soon we'll "Ask Slashdot: Windows ME vs Windows XP?" on the main page..... The world is truly going to hell....
For those of you experiencing problems signing on via GAIM using OSCAR, please update to the most recenty CVS copy. There will be a pre8 release of Gaim tomorrow reflecting the changes, as well.
The problem basically lies with AOL trying to block Jabber. This has been going on for several days -- since Monday, I believe. We just sort of caught a stray bullet this time, so to speak.
Good luck to the Jabber guys. I would like to see some communications with AOL as well.
Peace,
Rob
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Rob Flynn
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Rob Flynn
Pidgin
People have asked me why I don't move Kit to OSCAR. This is why.
While AOL has gone and changed/broken the TOC standard, it doesn't happen often, and the changes are easily circumvented (since they always keep TiK, TNT, and QuickBuddy working).
AOL never even made a pretense of documenting OSCAR, though, so they can break it whenever they want. And when they break it, we don't have the source to their older OSCAR clients for comparison.
AOL will do what it wants with AIM. Like it, or start moving to Jabber, as I'm doing.
Well, it doesn't surprise me that AOL is doing this. They are a business. They need as many 'Official' aim clients out there, so that they can change the protocol at will to include things like advertising. It makes good business sense to ensure that the users of it's IM service are running a client that AOL can manipulate, to sell the 'eyeballs'. If they can't be sure that all x number of people will see the adverts, then they can't make as much money. Simple business decision. It sucks for consumers, but it's the best thing AOL can do for itself.
This is good for AOL, but bad for the internet. The problem with the internet at the moment is that it has major applications that do not have simple, open, commodity protocols accepted by the majority of users of that service.
What lets email work so well is RFC821 and PFC822, defining the transport and the format of email so that clients and servers need not be tied to each other.
Now instant messaging in it's current state is horrible. We have a disjoint set of non-structured namespaces (BigMan200 anybody?), We have a single centralised server. And the protocol is closed.
Of course, most IM issues were solved by email years ago. Unless I'm being very dense, it wouldn't be too hard to make IM id's similar to email addresses (I have a sneaking suspicion that Jabber does this, but I haven't looked at it close enough).
I think AIM needs to be confiscated from AOL. While I think they do have a right to make a very nice looking client, and a server that can deal with huge loads, and use them to make a profit, they should not be allowed to lock up the protocol between the two. This is the major strength of the internet, the openness, simplicity and strict focus of the protocols employed by most internet clients. For all but a few protocols, the communication can be done by a clueful individual with a telnet client. (I have done this, and it is a lot of fun. EHLO everyone!) If the AIM protocol remains closed and binary, it will stay linked with AOL. We don't need another propriety protocol polluting pathways with packets parsable by 'proper' programs.
So, what I'm saying is: The client can stay AOL's. The server can stay AOL's. But the protocol should be open and hacker friendly. Please AOL, let the Internet do the right thing. It may be bad for your monopoly on the technology, but it will be good for avoiding the scrutiny of the anti-trust lawyers in years to come. Write some RFCs. Asciify your protocol. Amaze people with your Clue.
Now remember, this is an opinion. Yours may be different, and I like to change mine if I see one that looks good.
James,
Taco, what the HELL are you talking about!? "This kind of crap"? "tried to pull this off"? IT'S THEIR NETWORK! I use GAIM myself, and I did find myself shut out this afternoon, but I don't blame AOL. It's their network, and they can do as they please with it.
You act like you have some sort of right to use stuff other people maintain, and you expect to have it free. What the hell? Yes, AOL makes money through those banner ads, and they use them to support the service. If the ads aren't showing up on your screen, then they aren't making money off of you, and THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING!
That whole thing was exaggerated. I work at an IM company (none you've ever heard of), and while I'm not clear on the details, I have been told that the FCC thing does not apply to AIM itself, or the OSCAR protocol. You still aren't allowed to use it without AOL's permission.
If you don't like their system, don't use it! I don't understand... You complain about something you get for free. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING YOU GET FOR FREE! If you don't like it, don't fucking use it.
OTOH, you could always do what I did: Switch to TOC. Voila, GAIM works again. You can't check people's away messages, but it works.
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The Jabber protocol is open, the server is open source and the clients can be open source, closed source freeware, commercial or whatever you want to licence them under.
Under development is JabberZilla which is going to be a cross platform mozilla based client that will offer similar functionality to the AIM with Netscape 6. Opera currently supports ICQ in their version 5 windows browser, there are people who want them to change to Jabber support. Voice your views in the opera.wishlist newsgroup (on news.opera.no).
How about piggybacking on an existing system? Say, SMTP/POP?
Let's imagine a chat PTP app that runs BESIDES SMTP/POP. Let's say it uses the NTALK protocol to keep things clean.
The problem with dynamic IP is to keep track of your buddies' IP addresses. No sweat:
You connect. The chat app E-MAILS all your buddies a short message: "Yo! I'm online at 247.308.133.32 @ 12:33+06".
It also LOOKS regularly at your inbox for exactly such messages from your buddies telling you their IP addresses.
Now, the chat app updates your buddies list with their "new" (improved?) IP addresses.
It also checks each of those addresses to see who is STILL online since they sent their last "yo!" message, and updates the list accordingly.
Wanna chat? Just double-click on your buddy's name in the "online" list, and voilà, pops opens a window of PTP chat/file exchange/whatever with your buddy. CUCKOO!!!
There, it's simple, clean, **STANDARD**, and, most importantly, **ISN'T CENTRALIZED**, so it can't be tapped into nor shut-down.
Freechat anyone?
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I have pretty undeniable proof that AIM taps into the MIC and listens to conversations, then encodes them using some proprietary format and sends it off to the NSA.
Then, all of the most vile and evil things said by users who don't know they are actually being listened to through their microphones are force-fed back into the minds of the general public (via thought-controlling microwaves) and this is what's contributing to the downfall of America's Youth (see recent school shootings), not to mention global warming, the spread of AIDS, Bush as US President, and the California Energy Crisis. fnord
I beg of you, my fellow slashdotters! UNINSTALL your AIM clients and wrap aluminum foil around your heads!
It's the only way we can survive as a race of multicellular-semi-humanoid-bipedal-lifeforms!
And I mean it.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Perhaps someone actually requires an instant message type service. So where are the open source solutions? Of course, I understand they probably exist, but they haven't propogated as well as the commercial ones have.
:)
:)
Here's the answer. We create such a system. Don't make ANY effort to be compatible with the AOL systems. This is designed to replace, not to coexist with those systems. Create it to be bug free and cross platform, of course. Then... add THE feature. Whatever feature will draw in the 90% of the users for whom it is a challenge locating the start button, like most MCSE's.
Now...here's the trick. If this system were to become extremely popular, such that it actually rivaled the other services, they would probably add in support for it (being an open protocol, they certainly could). The trick would be forcing open their system as well in the process, although I don't think the GPL can reach THAT far.
Wishful thinking, yes yes I know.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
AIM isn't just a "protocol", kids. It's a bunch of servers owned, run and paid for by AOL. AOL spends millions of dollars on Sybase licenses and support contracts alone to run AIM. Do you think it's peer-to-peer? That they track connection status in real time for millions of concurrent users without big, expensive databases running on big, expensive hardware?
Even if the Jabber team ever comes out with a stable, robust release, it's not going to be able to support even half as many users as Yahoo instant messaging without someone footing the bill for millions of dollars in servers and fiber-channel storage arrays, commercial database software, and tens of thousands of dollars a month in hosting and connectivity services.
Do you really think a multi-million concurrent-user instant messaging system can run on one rack of Postgres servers on a T1? Phooey.
You want free communication without ads or service charges? Buy a CB radio and talk to your neighbors. That's peer-to-peer.
I'd like to see a show of hands: how many of the people here calling for free access to AIM servers aren't (a) MSN and Yahoo employees or (b) people who have never had a job besides maybe cleaning trays in a dorm cafeteria?
I've been waiting to hear this "You ungrateful bastards/you must be viewing ads to use AIM" argument...AOL alomst certainly loses money on AIM and those ads, mostly because they don't SELL any!
All the ads are for AOL services or AOL-owned companies !!
AOL puts the service out to lure people into subscribing to AOL, not to make money off ads. And no one can say that AOL is hurting for customers right now...they are still the largest ISP in the world.
So, yes, we can complain, especially when we depend on features AOL clients don't supply -- interoperability, alternate platforms, logging, etc...