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XBox Tidbits
Kurt from Joystick101 sent in linkage to a report of a presentation on the XBox which shows things like the molding process, hardware layout, involved developers and more. idcmp sent in something a little stranger: its a letter allegedly from nintendo talking about an un-named company (obviously microsoft) and the affect they are having on the industry. No clue if its real, but it sure looks like it might be.
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Frankly, I don't care if Microsoft is pure evil or how they promote their hardware in this particular case. I am sick and tired of having console hardware come out in Japan first and six to twelve months later in the US even though the US constitutes a significantly larger portion of the market.
Yes they can charge more in Japan and yes they do recoup back some of their costs, but I doubt there aren't certain sections of the US (silicon valley, new york, LA, etc) which wouldn't pay the exact same amount if not more.
One thing I can be assured of is that with Microsoft's existing manufacturing and distribution channels, that little Xbox will be sitting on the shelves at my local electronics store waiting for me when it launches.
Of course this may seem wrong and evil, but I'm come on. I feel especially sorry for those in Europe who sometimes have to wait even longer.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
We will finally see some good games for the PlayStation 2 later this year.
I know of a few that will definitely be PS2 killer app games:
Final Fantasy X
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Virtual Fighter 4
Grand Turismo 3
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Maybe you should try reading it as a paragraph, rather than sentence by sentence... He said that the first 9 months of the year represent over 50% of SALES, not over 50% of the year as you imply there... He's saying 50% of their sales occure Jan-Sep and the other 50% Oct-Dec (the holiday season)...
When IBM was in trouble with the government for violation of anti-trust law, one of the remedies that was put in place was that no marketing could be done for products that did not exist.
,and promoting one that has a year or more left before anyone can get their hands on it. I think it's fine for Microsoft to allow rumors and speculation about their Xbox, and even advertise on their own turf. But they shouldn't be seeking disciples on Nintendo's turf until they have something to follow.
A common anti-competitive practice is to strangle a market by hyping up a "future" product. It's easy to make it look like a killer-product when it's still vapor. Unfortunately, when the time comes to release, it is delayed or shipped with fewer features than promised.
In the meantime, everyone has stopped buying the real products in anticipation of the promise of things to come. And when they fail to deliver, nobody is forced to buy it, but the damage has already been done.
There's a difference between promoting a product that is a month or two from hitting the market
Also, it was a double meaning to both companies -- as I think they are both on their way to fuckdom.
Also, comparing Sega's impact to the impact Microsoft will make is not a valid comparison. Sega doesn't have a few billion to blow and a dominant market share in the computer industry.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
The normal usage of affect is in the verb form. From www.dict.org:
Affect \Af*fect"\ ([a^]f*f[e^]kt"), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Affected; p. pr. & vb. n. Affecting.] [L. affectus, p. p. of afficere to affect by active agency; ad + facere to make: cf. F. affectere, L. affectare, freq. of afficere. See Fact.]
1. To act upon; to produce an effect or change upon.
As might affect the earth with cold heat. --Milton.
The climate affected their health and spirits. --Macaulay.
The less common noun forms of affect:
Affect \Af*fect"\, n. [L. affectus.]
Affection; inclination; passion; feeling; disposition. [Obs.] --Shak.
Affect \Af*fect"\, n. (Psychotherapy)
The emotional complex associated with an idea or mental state. In hysteria, the affect is sometimes entirely dissociated, sometimes transferred to another than the original idea.
In comparison with the noun form of effect:
Effect \Ef*fect"\, n. [L. effectus, fr. efficere, effectum, to effect; ex + facere to make: cf. F. effet, formerly also spelled effect. See Fact.]
3. In general: That which is produced by an agent or cause; the event which follows immediately from an antecedent, called the cause; result; consequence; outcome; fruit; as, the effect of luxury.
The effect is the unfailing index of the amount of
the cause. --Whewell.
Yes, go ahead and mod me down for being an off topic wanker.
Nearly everything about the PS2 has screams "failure." When you look at the system, what about it or what games for it make you so eager to have one now and at the current price? I haven't seen a great game yet. I've heard nothing but problems about his thing and have no problem whatsoever waiting until the XBox or Nintendo's entry is out there to have at least one of the new generation systems to compare it to.
Cheers,
I always wonder why a group of grown-ups on higher-than-average salaries want to bitch about which console will be best, fastest, make them look hard with their mates etc. but really all these bits of hardware do the same thing! Dreamcasts, Playstations and N64s are all `silly money' now, even when you're paying in UK pounds like I am. I mean, you hardly need to lay out any cash at all for the system, and the games are all largely the same price. If there are more than a few games you're willing to splash out on for a particular console, why not just buy them all and bitch about which is the better game?
Most of the discussion even a few months into a new console's life (this goes for the PS2 in spades) is centered around such-and-such a feature of a console not facilitating good games, or distribution problems, or publisher problems. The hardware is all pretty much without question really exciting and interesting across the board (multiple processors, exciting graphics chips etc., a real trip if you're only used to programming PCs) if you're genuinely interested in that, but that's pretty much by the by. They're all capable of giving exactly the same amount of fun, and fabulous, jaw-dropping games are increasingly not necessarily technical feats any more. So at the end of the day, it really, really doesn't matter what hardware is in these boxes-- all we're arguing about is the hype, surrounding them: unreleased consoles are great for this.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
What I wonder is why people would buy an XBox rather than a PC, other than the fact that a gaming console is typically easier to use than a PC...
I just can't wait to see the price M$ will want for one of those units.....
Sure MS has the right to whatever kind of marketing they want. what nintendo is wisely pointing out is that the retailers are shooting themseleves in the foot by going along with this.
:)
The retailers probably don't give a flying f*ck, because they'll get more money for store-space advertizing deals than they will in terms of margin on the Nintendo consoles and cartridges.
Besides, most people stopped buying N64's when the PS2 was pre-announced.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Sure MS has the right to whatever kind of marketing they want. what nintendo is wisely pointing out is that the retailers are shooting themseleves in the foot by going along with this. Turning away your customers empty handed in the hope that they'll be back next year to buy another console is a stupid strategy.
I suspect that the retailers are being well compensated by MS for the lost sales but that would be hard to prove.
War is necrophilia.
Whatever ad revenue coming from MS will probably not counteract the fact that the customer just left the store empty handed. It's more then just the profit margin it's also psychological. Presumably the customer came in to buy something. Your job when the customer walks in is to sell them what they want, make them linger around to see if something else catches their eye, and sell them the other thing too. The stores make money by upselling or selling related products. Telling your customer that they should wait another year to spend their money is just plain stupid.
War is necrophilia.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
So is Microsoft going with the traditional business model of selling the machine at a loss and making it up on the games? If not, exactly how the hell do they expect to compete? I dont care if there are more games for it (which there will be if you can use directX to code for it) I'm not going to pay PC prices for a console and then pay exorbidant prices for games too.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Man, I wonder if there will ever be a time where people get together with their consoles and tv sets to have a LAN party instead of lugging PC's.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Just goes to prove one of my theories of console development: if upgrades are mandatory or even highly recommended for some games to be playable or enjoyable, then the console will fail.
When I first heard reports of the 64DD for the N64, I said "Wow, guess Nintendo didn't learn from Sega's mistakes- they should cut their losses and start working on their next console" ; of course, all of my friends were looking at me crazy, as the 64 was seen, in their eyes, as the best console around.. but I knew that it would be a relative failure.
-bugg
It is well known that the console makers are trying to position their next gen consoles as, in essence, the household "computer/internet" box. The makers such as Sony, Nintendo, et. all have come right out and stated exactly that.
Actually, Nintendo has come right out and stated exactly that they do not want to be mistaken for a set-top appliance, and that is why they opted for the Gamecube name...
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson
read this. explains everything (as much as they can)
http://cube.ign.com/news/32525.html
If what you say is true..... then I still don't care.
I don't understand what idiot moderator marked that as a Troll. He's making a very valid point. You might disagree with it but that doesn't make it a Troll. A troll is a post which intentionally lies in order to provoke a reaction. If I get my hands on the 13-year-old who moderated this one I would like to ground them for a week.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Also, Nintendo have profited on the N64. Sure, hardware sales are lower then the PSX's, but software sales... Zelda was MASSIVE when it came out, and Nintendo has alot less piracy they have to 'compete' with.
Sure, Pokemon has help, but Nintendo were hardly a poor company before it, and would have survived without the fad.
Sega took Nintendo from a virtual monopoly with the NES to a 50/50 split with the GenesisMegaDrive/SuperNintendo. The pain from that will be much worse that anything Microsoft will dish out. Just because Sega didn't have a huge wallet and a PC operating system monopoly doesn't mean they didn't cause damange to Nintendo, infact, I doubt Microsoft will even inflict anything as harsh and what Sega did- break Nintendo's stranglehold.
MS won't slash away 50% of Nintendo's userbase, that is definate. Microsoft is seriously gunning after Sony's userbase, both the consoles are going to be in direct competition with each other. Microsoft, if sucessful, will be Sony's replacement, just as they replaced Sega.
Give Sega some credit, they changed the industry. Microsoft are just here with their 'PC-in-a-box' to leech from it now.
The GameCube optical disks are 1.5G each. Your beloved Dreamcast GD-ROMs are 1G each. Who has the space problem exactly. Yes, in the previous generation Nintendo had problems due to an expencive and small medium, however, now, 1.5G is not small, espically from a company that doesn't particularly like FMV. However, if a developer needs more space they can use more then one disk. Simple!
I haven't actually seen a real advantage of Mini-DVDs over regular DVDs
One of the advantages of the GCN's optical disks are, as you said, less piracy. It's not a mini-DVD, it's a proprietory format developed by Matushita(sp?), and, yes, will be difficult top copy. Do you think 3rd parties will be happy with Nintendo for making their console use a medium that cannot easily be pirated? Of course they will, less piracy is more profit to them. The PS1 was very much the pirates toy, and give it two years and the PS2 will be the same.
And then, there is size. It's a GAME console. Smaller disks are easier to hold around, move around, and smaller to package. There has already been talk long-term of the NEXT Game Boy being theoretically able to use a format similer to the GNC disks due to their portible size. Size does matter :-)
The whole fact that only a few games will come out for N64 this year, while games *continue* to come out for PS1
Perhaps, but I don't LIKE any of the games on the PS1... at all. I love the 12 or so games I have on my N64. When I bought a CD-RW a few months back, my youngest sister (12 year old) actully half-jokingly said to me that I should buy a PS just to copy the games. Nice to see 12 year olds with that mentality... Anyway, like I said to her, what's the point on spending $100 on a console with no games we'd want, even if they were 'free'? She loves the N64, spends more time on it then me now (and she's not really into the Pokemon scene, I own no Pokemon games).
Sure, alot of people like the hundreds of games on the PS, well, you can have them, I'm much happier with what Nintendo has to offer.
I bought a Nintendo 64 the day it came out for close to $400 (with a game and controller)
Same, and 2 months later when the price dropped $100 Nintendo Australia offered me a free game. I got a copy of Mario Kart 64 for free. That is a company that cares about their customer satisfaction!
Today, I own a Dreamcast, which I love.
And you're complaining about the software support of the Nintendo 64? At least is wasn't DOA. The DC was doomed from the beginning, the only people that don't agree with that were the people that wasted their money on them. You lost. Deal with it. No-one would have guessed that the N64 would outlive the DC, would they...
Now I feel burned.
Why, because they didn't make their console the #1 seller for you?
and I'm selling my N64 and game collection on eBay.
Oh well. I was happy with the two Zelda games, and the classic Super Mario 64 just to name a couple of games I have, and still have alot of fun with 4 player Goldeneye, Mario Kart, F-Zero X, Perfect Dark and more, but if that's what you'd like that's fine.
Enjoy your future with the Dreamcast. If you like new console software you'll be buying a PS2, a GCN, or a Xbox within 12 months.
#1: The Japanese market is bigger.
#2: They are JAPANESE companies. How would you feel if some US company launched in Japan first?
#3: 12 Months? What console was that?!
Believe it or not, the US market isn't the most important to Nintendo, Sega and Sony just because you are in it. If you really want to stick up for the American way, for apple pie, fight off the east, then buy an Xbox, and prey it fares better then every other console out of the USA.
I feel especially sorry for those in Europe who sometimes have to wait even longer.
Yeah, I'm in Australia, and we have around the same release dates as Europe. Yes, it sucks. But I know a country of 19 million with a TV format different (*cough* superior *cough*) to the big two markets that I have to wait, and I also know they are in buiness to make money. Yes, it really sucks. But I guess I'm used to it now, and anyway, I can import if I REALLY want to. Just remember, some of us would love to get US release dates...
Microsoft currently have a 0% share of the video game console industry, and no product on offer at all, and will not until next year*. Yet, they are still sending out advertising aimed at consumers telling them not to buy products avalable NOW but to wait for their eventual product. What do you think the impact of this will be on stores that sell only video games? In displaying the Xbox advertising a retailer is trying to strangle their cashflow for the following 10 or more months. Obviously it would stop people buying products now, and of course that would be a bad thing for the industry.
But do Microsoft care if that would be bad for the industry now. Hell no! Why not? Look at their current market share: 0%. Do you think Microsoft care if they make 20% less profit from a market share ok 0%. Of course not. 20% of nothing is still nothing. Microsoft are attempting to rape the industry now so things are good when they finally get in.
Yes, Nintendo are somewhat biased, yes they have 2 consoles out trying to make profit at the moment. Yes Nintendo have a next generation console and a new handheld coming up that will be out before the Xbox. Yes it IS in Nintendo's interest for stores not to advertise the Xbox. But Nintendo are the old men of the industry, and they can also see that this will cause it serious damage if sales in consoles, not only theirs but the PS2, grind to a halt due to Microsoft FUD advertising. Nintendo don't want some new compnay just strangling the industry.
Back in 1984 with the NES, Nintendo brought the video game market back from the death Atari had caused it, and turned home video games from a fad into an international multibillion dollar industry. Something tells me that they might have SOME idea about what they are talking about.
Before you tell me that this is all bullshit, just ponder this: In the 'Linux Myths' Microsoft said that Linux did not have USB support at a time when their current business operating system was Windows NT 4.0 (also USBless), but said "Windows 2000 will have it, it'll be out soon". They wanted to stop people using Linux because of a product they had not shipped yet. Now they are doing the same to the video game industry.
Also, have a look over at IGNcube here for an interview with Nintendo's vice president of marketing George Harrison all about this very letter. He states that Nintendo won't being in-store advertising of the GameCube until August- two months before it's release. Much better then a year.
Microsoft Xbox: Bringing the blue screen to the living room. With a FREE copy of Photoshop for those post-game touch-up...
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* The Xbox will be delayed, the thing doesn't even have final dev kits out yet. People say that Nintendo's GameCube will delay even though 3rd parties have had final dev kits for months, but have blind faith in Microsoft shipping on time, a company well known for delays and FUD in the past ("Don't get a PS2 or GCN, look what will be out... eventually...").
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Of course, profits and a huge bank balance aren't enough to be 'non-fucked' for you? How about the fact that Nintendo have shown that they can be pratically self-sufficiant, almost single-handedly supplying software to the N64 (well, the best of it at least). If all 3rd parties were to dump the GameCube tomorrow (which won't happen) the thing would be successful with Nintendo and the 2nd parties supporting it on their own.
Nintendo are not fucked. Sega didn't fuck them. Sony haven't fucked them. Microsoft won't fuck them. Nintendo are the constant in the industry, it's Nintendo's competition that changes, let it be Atati, Sega, Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft are Sony's replacement this generation. Those 2 are competing for all the 3rd parties they MUST have to survive. Nintendo will keep making their games and bringing in the profit.
Nintendo ain't going to be gone for a LONG time yet....
Lesson to microsoft -- gotta get it out soon. If the gamecube comes out first all those console purchases will go to it instead.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
see hte Xbox ships with a P3, any idea if they're still including the PSN number with that?
It'd be nice for copy control purposes. If too many copies of a game with the same serial number are being played online (such as in Internet multiplayer) on machines with different serial numbers, the game will randomly crash and throw up a PNG file of a BSOD. "Buy original unpirated software and it won't bluescreen on you."
Will I retire or break 10K?
For me, the killer app would be a Sony Playstation I emulator
bleem! is a PlayStation console emulator for Windows and Dreamcast.
If it can do that, I'll consider it over a PS2...
Compatible games look better on bleem! than on PS2.
Until the X-Box can do that,
The PC hardware used for PC bleem! is similar to the PC hardware used in Xbox. The Windows and Direct3D software that bleem! uses is similar to the Windows and Direct3D software that Xbox games use. Therefore, porting bleem! to Xbox should be a breeze.
Will I retire or break 10K?
What's so compelling about the XBox that someone wishing to buy a console would hangon rather than buy a PS2 right now?
Seems Sony hasn't learned its own lesson, from the rumors I've been hearing about developing for the PS2. That being as it is... I'm still rooting for Nintendo, myself. Sega should have won, but after the Saturn (remember that) I don't think anyone was taking them too seriously. My theory on Dreamcast is that Microsoft probably pulled an OS/2 maneuver on Sega -- floated a WinCE-based system as a trial balloon and then yanked the rug out from under them when the XBox was announced. The "note from Nintendo", real or not, raises some very valid points. Xbox is getting all this press, and we don't even know how it's going to be recieved by the users. But that's pretty typical marketing, I suppose. The fact is that I suspect Xbox is going to come up a little short -- expect a full Windows implementation on it where none is necessary would be my first bit of warning... /Brian
Thus, Conker's Bad Fur Day.
They own the portable gaming market as far as the eye can see, though -- the Game Boy has never had a really serious competitor in the over ten years it's been on the market. Their fate is in their hands, though it doesn't help that they haven't seen fit to include DVD capability on the Gamecube. IMHO DVD capability on a game console is mostly a waste of effort, but there are places (dorm rooms are the first to come to mind) where it would be very useful indeed.
/Brian
I think that feature was taken out of the P3 right about the time they ditched the Slot 1 packaging for it.
/Brian
Slightly ot...
Has anyone yet seen the Pikachu special edition N64? A more blatant example of unnecessary corporate whoring I have never seen...
See, the real fun part of all this is that the thing Nintendo could have done from the start is release a CD-player cartridge and crank up the Baby Indy that powers the thing. Of course, that would mean continuing to rely on SGI instead of IBM (the GameCube uses a PowerPC chip), which doesn't strike me as being good business sense...
/Brian
The Nintendo letter is absolutely right, the Microsoft Xbox is too far out to be of great importance right now, but Microsoft still wants people to abstain from buying. This is one of their classic tricks. Sow a seed of doubt in people's minds so they don't buy from a competitor. They don't even have to release good product if this strategy succeeds! Some examples:
Microsoft SMS. Versions 1.0 and 1.2 were absolute garbage and hideously behind schedule, but Microsoft kept harping on how fantastic Hermes AKA SMS was and to abstain from buying competing products from Intel, IBM and others. People played it safe and didn't buy from either of these two in favour of an unreleased product. Why make it good when you can prevent people from buying from the competition?
NetPC. Larry Ellison had the computing world abuzz and Microsoft was worried. So together with Intel they announced NetPC -- a thin client PC. People decided to wait on the NC in favour of the NC. Microsoft could then safely kill the product and claim there was no market. Intel actually showed up at our company to demo the NetPC with a gray lunchbox with stickers on the inside printed like circuit boards!!! "This is what it will look like," they said! I was shocked!
And finally a cross-platform operating system like Windows NT. Support a few different processor types long enough to save face, but restrict any good software for them and eventually pull support for all except Intel and Alpha (which they're contractually bound to support).
XBox more of the same? How could you think otherwise...
---
Gamers are smart... putting a poster in a store is not going to sway them. They will make the choice based on what they feel to be the best after they evaluate the competition.
Many gamers are young. Young enough to not posess or be allowed to spend $300 without parental input. And unfortunately, parents are going to be swayed easier than informed gamers... If an uninformed parent sees a poster that says wait for the X-Box and they don't see one for the Game Cube (and they don't read the hot gaming sites on the web and spend time speculating like hard-core gamers do), then I think some will be swayed by the MS posters.
So maybe gamers won't be swayed, but the ones holding the cash will be.
It is well known that the console makers are trying to position their next gen consoles as, in essence, the household "computer/internet" box. The makers such as Sony, Nintendo, et. all have come right out and stated exactly that. Does it surprize anyone that Microsoft has developed a strategy to fight this? This is not a new market that Microsoft is entering, but rather it's, at least with the newer consoles, an extension of the battle for the home PC market. By stalling purchases now and introducing an extremely powerful gaming platform soon Microsoft is doing a great job keeping the developers and users in "PC land". I don't fault them whatsoever for it, and I hope it's massively successful.
It is so intriguing when companies like Nintendo and Sony are seen as underdogs or the "good guys" in cases like this. Are you people all on crack or something?
Of course Nintendo is upset about MS stalling new purchases in lieu of the X-Box. Nintendo has a product on the shelves, an ancient product with games that are seriously overpriced, that they are rolling in the dough with and of course they don't like Microsoft threatening it. Good for them. However they are not holding a moral high ground here : This is cut-throat busienss.
Either 1) Nintendo's VP of marketing is hopelessly unschooled in English grammar or 2) this is a hoax. The punctuation is worse that the average /. post. If this is all the better Nintendo can do in communicating with its retailers, they are already doomed.
We can reduce ideas to bits and people to genes, but "can" does not imply "should".
Microsoft vs. Nintendo...the world hasn't seen an evil-versus-evil matchup like this since Stalin vs. the Little Corporal.