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Rewriting The Past With Zelda
The Hegemon writes: "Someone hacked the rom for the original Zelda on NES. He created an entirely new game called Zelda Outlands or ZeldaC. You can see it at this site. I am sure most of us remember how great the original was. I think it would be interesting to play it over in an entirely different way." Now I need to download and play with this, but projects like this are tres cool, I think. Taking a legacy piece of technology and creating something new with it, in a framework that's familar to people.
was I able to get first post.
The original Legend Of Zelda was the game that got me into programming, or more specifically, game programming. The game itself was exciting and gave me a great feeling of vastness and it's engine (not that I called it that when I was seven) seemed the perfect way to describe a world.
:)
I immediately started using my shallow C64 BASIC knowledge to imitate the gameplay, and by the time I was eight, I had a little graphic walking around a screen.
That's as far as it went back then, but even to this day, the key game design document that I want to create one day is strongly influenced by Zelda.
As a coincidence, my Zelda 1 cartridge that I ordered from E-Bay happened to arrive to my house this morning.
Pardon this self indulgence of reminsence...
True for some games, but not Zelda.
I played Zelda just a little while ago, on my still-functional NES system. I greatly enjoyed it, not for nostalgia, but because it was _fun_. Zelda is a great game, probably one of the all-time best.
Some games are shallow and tedious. Some games show the perfection of game design that John Romero couldn't pull off in a dozen lifetimes. For those games, it doesn't matter how old they are.
The enemies of Democracy are
That's all I have to say.
- That forbidden forest was too scary. Please change it to a forbidden HAPPY forest with some little furry animals running around.
- Along with the forest, all that right right right, left left left stuff has to go. Please change it to up up down down left right left right. Got to keep it in line with other games. Thanks.
- Give Link a spunky side kick that helps him fight crime. Pref a girl, but whatever you think is right. Heck, make it an animal and give it two tails. Worked for other games....
- Give it that open source appeal. Make the old man look like Linus, the bosses look like goons from Apple, Oracle and Microsoft, and then the final boss have the heads of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison.
- Finally, give link a dart gun and the ability to look around corners. That way, Link would only 'stun' his enemies. With all those Dodongos and Octoroks running around, it would be like a great espionage game with Link as some spy type.
I don't think this stuff is too much to ask. Please get on this right away.Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Very interested in a hint.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Now zelda may not be a hard-core "man's" rpg, but it has a loyal fan base, which it deserves. I think the Zelda series of games (specifically Zelda3 on snes, Zelda4 on (colour)gameboy and the two n64 games Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask, are definitely some of the best games ever written for any system. It's the kind of thing you can play over and over, and if you're not too fanatical it can entertain you for months as you explore, play, and progress through the worlds.
Majora's mask doesn't feel as large as the last few games, but it's definitely fun, and a lot harder than the others- and I know a lot of slashdotters out there are looking forward to whatever nintendo serves us up on the gamecube.
Ever since I first played a zelda of my own instead of at friends' houses, I wanted to be able to edit Zelda. Cheers to the fellow with the insight, time, and patience to achieve what I'll never get to do! Job well done!
--Gfunk
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Oh, you want to get a hacked up version of Final Fantasy I? Get the translated ROM for Final Fantasy IIj. It basically reuses 90% of the graphics from FF1. The plot's a little weak, but it's far better than the first. Watch out, though, the monsters are tough as nails, and you have to spend a lot of time "leveling up" to get anywhere. The advancement system was pretty neat, though. No levels, just boosting attributes through use. They don't pull punches either. If you aren't supposed to be in an area in the game yet, the monsters there WILL kill you very quickly.
Seriously, though, try the game out, and you'll see instantly why I think it seems like a hacked remake. The graphics are just dead on.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Anyone heard the Ska-ish Zelda music covers by Mr. Bungle? If not - find them. they are freaking great.
Not meaning to start any flamewars, but if you ask me, the metroid series was more fun.
+++ ATH0 +++
Did anyone play the Star Control games? I have many, many great memories of playing the second game; it had a wonderful story and the "action" parts were just FUN. It was simple, but it was definitely the type you play with your neighbor for hours.
Anyway, after the orginial designers left after the second, the third game sucked. So, a fan created project has gotten together to make a new sequel to the second game, and I'm very excited about seeing it.
If you liked Star Control, help out to return it to its old glory!
Star Control: Timewarp
http://www.talknerdy.org
It is actually impossible for Nintendo to make any money off of the old Zelda cart now. The only way to acquire it is to buy it used, but that only gives cash to the store/person/ebay dealer that you purchase it from. Nintendo makes money when retailers purchase new carts to sell, retailers haven't stocked the first Zelda since oh... 1992 or so.
So while there might be an intellectual piracy violation or something, you aren't actually hurting Nintendo like you would if you played a ROM of a current N64 game that they might actually sell. The only way this could hurt Nintendo is if playing some hacked 8-bit rom somehow decreased your desire to play a real sequel. This is unlikely, as the only people interested in this type of thing are the nerdy rabid fans who will be purchasing anything with triforces and Dodongos.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
11 April 2001
In a recent event today, yet another site has been brought to it's knees by a
Appearently, the
Other sites recelty attacked include: Spindletop LLC, a company, which was created to raise money for the Spindl3top non-profit, which plans on building high-end computers for charity; 1U Half Width Server Project, a site project that includes instructions on building a 1/2 width 1U rackmountable server.
Should Slashdot be held responsible for these attacks? Should they be made to pay for the bandwidth costs to these sites?
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Oh well, just kidding, no hard feelings. Kudos to the guy who did this - I'm amazed at the raw power of reverse engineering here. I mean, you can't even buy an NES any more. I guess the idea of a "platform" transcends hardware in some important ways.
Oh, and note to future commercial enterprises: if you are thinking to yourself "Hey, if we just make our file formats/protocols/etc. obscure binary-only, nobody will have enough time on their hands to figure them out, right?" Wrong.
Can your IM do this?
My brothers and I played the original Zelda to death. One thing we loved was the flexibility - you could skip certain items or visit the dungeons out of order to grab special weapons, and that allowed you to play the game in a somewhat different order or fashion than the designer intended.
:-), here's one from the annals of Classic Games: "beat" Zelda (that is, get to the last room with Ganon) without ever picking up a sword.
At one point we decided to see if we could play through the game without getting the final sword. Turns out you can, the enemies just take 2X hits. Harder, but not impossible. Then we decided to see if we could do it without the intermediate sword either. Again, you can, but everything takes 4X hits.
However, at some point it occurred to me that maybe, you could play through the game without any sword *at all*. It seemed impossible, since the first thing you do on the first screen of the game is pick up the first (wooden) sword. Also, you start with no other items, weapons or money. However, there are certain places where you can find coins, and certain items you can buy to get started...
In short, it turns out you *can* play through the entire game, in *both* quests, without ever getting a sword at all. It requires quite a bit of creativity and figuring out alternate weapons to use against different monsters, but in every instance it is possible to find an alternate way to pass each game obstacle. The only thing you can't do is defeat Ganon at the end of the game, as that really does require a sword (though any sword, so even the initial wooden sword works there). But you can go through the entire game, right up to the last room, without any sword at all.
I was impressed that there was so much flexibility built into the game - in most games, creature X can only be defeated by weapon Y, there's only one path to each item, one possible order you can do things in, etc. Zelda, in contrast, was *very* well designed to allow alternate solutions to just about everything, right up to the extreme of never using a primary weapon at all.
So if anyone is in search of a challenge (i.e. buggered bored
Next chapter: Constructing sentences.
Rich
There's nothing worse than looking forward to a game, beating it, and then...it's over. Talk about your replay value. I wish they would incorporate this idea into more of today's adventure/RPG video games. They did it then...why not now?
A game came out for the PS2 recently called Shadow of Destiny and I think one of the major things they were aiming for in the game was replayability. The game centers around time travel and they wanted you to go back and play again and again to see how the different choices you make affect everything.
Very good game, I highly recommend it. It's one of the main reasons I got a PS2 in the first place.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
That aside I think this hack is absolutely great. I love when someone takes something they love and with thier passion for that item create something completely new and wonderful with it. I read about this game about a week ago I think and it looks like a top notch mod. I just wish more game companies supported modification of thier games. I also wish that more companies were more liberal with distribution of out of production games. There were so many things I saw when I was a child that I was never able to get and I would like to get a chance for that now when I have the cash in my pocket.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
And where does "fair use" come in? Say I'm an artist who wants to use The Legend of Zelda (tm) as the foundation for a work of satire? The Andy Warhol of video games? In any case, the coder in question can do no harm to Nintendo corporation with his work. In fact, the only market change I foresee is an increase in game sales due to curiosity by players who have only tried the modified version.
I love the fact that the download is a patch to the rom cart, not the whole thing, so that should at least delay the lawyer onslaught. Nintendo's lawyers are known for being amongst the most ruthless at taking out rom posters, and I wouldn't want to see stuff like this killed.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
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We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
Now I just have to give Nintendo credit on the Metroid thing. Granted you had to beat the game (or at the very least be introduced to Justin Bailey :-) ) to see Samus in all her glory, but having a female lead character in a kick-ass action game all the way back in '85 or so was definitely a Good Thing -- beat Lara Croft to the punch by a good 5 years or so.
The big question: did I hear correctly that a Metroid sequel is out there, and if so, did they make sure to make Samus a cutie?
/Brian
First off I'd like to congratulate the person who did this; this is a very Good Thing for those into old games like this. Zelda is IMHO the classic of its kind -- great music, great graphics, a lot of fun. I hope to see that "how to hack Zelda" doc soon -- that looks like a great deal of fun. I have actually seen one very good Zelda clone, but you have to be a Mac user to play it. It's called Mantra; I can't quite seem to find a web page for it anymore but it's easy enough to find a download. The music in particular is incredible, even if the plot line becomes nonsensical pretty quickly. The big question: does source exist to such a game somewhere? /Brian
Zelda was fun, but I doubt it could hold your interest now. No matter how fond your memories of the old games are, playing them now reveals them to be shallow and tedious.
Interestingly, these same qualities make a few of the old games BETTER than you remeber. Fire up MAME and Robotron, focus on the center of the screen and start counting Brain Waves.
There's nothing worse than looking forward to a game, beating it, and then...it's over. Talk about your replay value. I wish they would incorporate this idea into more of today's adventure/RPG video games. They did it then...why not now?
Try System Shock2 and Deus Ex. You can play the game 3 different ways in SS2, and an infinite amount on Deux Ex (there is like 5 different ways to solve each obstical in the game!).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Here is the mirror for it, courtesy of google. Click here for zelda mirror
I think the two (RPG) games I've found with the best replay value are Chrono Trigger (SNES, find a ROM, it's all over I'm sure) and Chrono Cross (PSX).
Chrono Trigger was probably, barring Final Fantasy 4 (2 in the US) the best RPG for the SNES, hell, it might even be better. Wicked plot, great character development, and all-around FUN gameplay. The premise is basically that you need to travel through time in order to stop an immense destructive force that will (in the future) completely obliterate life as we know it on the planet. The time-travel is well done (unlike in Zelda: Ocarina), in that things you do in the past tend to have a reasonable impact on the future. For instance, if you get a treasure in 600 A.D. you cannot get it in 1000 A.D. even if it would be available, however you can get it in 1000 A.D. *and* 600 A.D. To top it off, the game has over 20 endings to find. Once you beat it normally (which can be done in one of a few ways), you get to play in what is called a 'New Game+'. This is exactly like starting a new game, except you keep all of your items and equipment (except for key items needed to move the plot along), and you keep all your stats at the end of the last game. Plus, you get to fight the final boss effectively whenever you want, and by doing so at different points during the story, you get new endings (whcih reflect the situation of the story at the time). It's a LOT of fun to tear through the beginning of the game with high-level guys too.
Chrono Cross is a lot like Chrono Trigger, except you move around between dimensions instead of between time. It has a 'New Game+' and multiple endings as well. Not only that, it features 44 characters, lots of side-quests, and a branching storyline. You need to play through the game at least three times to get all the characters, and to go through the different branches.
If you haven't played the Chrono series, and you're looking for good replay, give them a go. I *STRONGLY* recommend playing Chrono Trigger first, since Chrono Cross has lots of references to it, and is much more enjoyable for having played CT.
-wd
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chip norkus(rl); white_dragon('net'); wd@routing.org
mercenary albino programmer for hire
"question = (to) ? be : !be;" --Shakespeare
Hell, this story is the main reason i'm going to Games4Less on my lunch break to pick up an NES and a copy of Zelda.. among a few other titles I had until now forgotten about. Sure, Nintendo's not going to get any royalties off of this sale, but then again, is this much different than if I went and got an emulator and a ROM?
-Matt
The thing I think I enjoyed most about the original Zelda, was the fact that once you beat the game, the ENTIRE game started again. All items, secrets, EVERYTHING was in a different place. Talk about a surprise. Sleepless for a week to beat the game, then sleepless for another week to beat it again - just to see if there was anything else. Cudos to Nintendo.
There's nothing worse than looking forward to a game, beating it, and then...it's over. Talk about your replay value. I wish they would incorporate this idea into more of today's adventure/RPG video games. They did it then...why not now?
Look up 'System of a Down Zelda' on napster and download that song.... It's hilarious
huge list of other patches and rom hacks
(I was going to say something simular to your post, but since you covered 90% of what I was going to say, I'll just add a comment.)
There has been so much interest in NES rom hacking, that for certain games, there are programs (usually win32 based) to change the game. For example, the NES Legend of Zelda game has at least one program that I'm aware of to change the overhead map room layout.
*Sigh* You are right, this isn't news. I remember reading docs about hacking Zelda and playing Zelda hacks over 2 years ago. What's the next thing Slashdot is going to post? Sega Master System Emulated?
A version of the old Zelda has already been made for the PC. It features the original quest, and the original quest with a different graphic style. It even includes an editor to create your own quests! The site has many quests that were designed and uploaded using this. The port also has additional features added to the Zelda game. Go and check it out now at www.classicgaming.com/zeldaclassic, and I'm sure you can d/l it on FilePlanet (www.fileplanet.com). It is, I feel, a superior version that is actually made for PC!
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:smb3c.darkmaz da.com/zeldac/+zeldac&hl=en
The games of today can't hold a candle to the creativity present in the games of 15 years ago. 16 colors and 320x200 screen resolution isn't a heck of a lot to work with, so in order to be successful game designers were forced to actually be innovative with their games, and not just repackage the same concept/engine with different graphics again and again and again like they do today.
Quake 3 Arena or Unreal or whatever the latest first person shootemup is are essentially Wolfenstein 3D with fancier graphics and different guns. The concept is the same (basically), the controls are the same, the user interface is the same save for a few cosmetic changes (select gun, aim and fire), the monsters are the same (large scary looking thing trying to kill you), problem solving is the same (find keycard, open door).. Overhead strategy games suffer from the same problem. How many Warcraft/Starcraft/Command & Conquer/etc. games are out now?
Go back a few years. Maniac Mansion - unquestionably the best video game ever. Totally original concept. Innovative plot line and user interface, memorable characters and plot twists, multiple endings, detailed graphics in all their low-res splendor, cool sound effects that were actually relevant to the plot.. Moreover, there had never been anything like it before. It was a totally new concept in computer gaming. That's becoming rarer and rarer in games today as more territory is explored, and there is less of a financial incentive to innovate today as you can make quite a bit of money without breaking any new ground by just licensing somebody else's engine and hiring a few artists to draw new monsters.
Not that Quake 3 isn't fun to play or doesn't have a new and exciting engine better than anything else ever, it's just not a terribly new concept gameplaywise. As bigger and better graphics boards keep coming out, we'll get more and more Wolfenstein clones with fancy 3D rendered explosions...
-kwertii
(AP) - Nintendo of America announced today that due to incredibly low sales of their 1986 hit 'Zelda', they are over 65 billion Yen in debt, and are declaring Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.
'All these ROM downloads have taken away literally thousands of sales per day', said an anonymous Nintendo spokesman. When asked how Nintendo could possibly lose sales on an item that hasn't been in production for nearly a decade, the spokesman refused comment.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Anybody who's ever looked at Zophar's Domain (here) in the past two or three years or so knows that there are lots of re-writes and edits of old NES games, from Metroid to Super Mario.
Now all we need is for someone to hack the N64 version to add characters from "Conker's Bay Fur Day" to "Zelda:Ocarina of Time"...
Does the Hookshot work on the "Mighty Poo"?
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