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Cryonics "Noah's Ark"
Baldrson writes: "The New York Times reports that architect Stephen Valentine has been commissioned to build a $180 million cryonics "Noah's Ark" theme park and hospice. The purpose will be the preservation, and amusement, of all manner of biological samples, including humans. Among the supporting groups is the nonprofit Stasis Foundation which has been involved in bail-outs of cryonics companies (euphemism for cryonics companies in necrosis). This announcement is particularly timely given this weekend's Foresight Institute Senior Associate Gathering. Biblical themes may evoke religious contributions from aging boomers to push the envelope, but never underestimate the passion of the dog breeders." The vision that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's head in a glass jar.
wooyaaah... We're done for now.
in a capitalist society.
Let's assume the technical problems are solved..
As long as the service of being cryogenically preserved is a commodity, unsubsidized by the government or most insurance, the rich, prominent, and powerful will be the people self selected to undergo the service.
These people will also set up bank trusts, etc. to preserve their interests as they lie dead and frozen. They will influence politics to preserve their property rights as they lie dead, concentrating more and more property and political control in the hands of the dead and their trustees.
I can even imagine the trusteeships being battered back and forth in the marketplace, as the companies that control the wealth of the dead compete with each other.
All in all a fucked up scenario. What do people think about existing or prospective national and international law to deal with this problem? Mind you, I'm partial to the belief that either we have to live in a differnet economic system, or we must make cryogenics a state supported medical service available to all - decided by lot, democratic selection, condition of health or some other scientific standard.
Goat sex free since 2001
The entirety of Western civilisation is based on the need to build new technologies and exploit the rest of the world for resources, both mineral and intellectual, to make this as rapid as possible. Since the 15th century, when Europe first cast its greedy eye outwards towards far away lands beyond its borders, we have seen this process of exploitation in action. Western civilisation isn't really a civilisation at all - it is a production base for the development of new and incredible technologies.
Culturally, we have produced very little. The Stone Age people of the Andaman islands are far more advanced spiritually and philosophically than we are, in our material lust for hamburgers. Every time we visit Walmart we are raping the third world a little more, and yet we think ourselves so advanced. We are a virus, feeding of off those greater than we are, and our time will surely pass.
Why this desire for immortality? A civilisation at peace with itself is not afraid of death, and does not try to extend its legacy beyond the normal span. Are we really so facile that we must seek immortality for our pauperish contribution to world culture?
I fear we are. I think that we should attend to the here and now, and start to right the wrongs we have wrought, rather than embarking on an exercise of vanity, and patting ourselves on the back.
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"Theme park and hospice," there's a phrase you don't find in many business plans.
Anyhow, if this is a Noah's Ark of Cryonics, will the storage areas be measured in Ice Cubits?
If you don't want my koalas, baby, don't shake my eucalyptus tree.
Spiritually and philosophically don't cure diseases or make plants grow better. Its technology that makes things better.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Ten-to-One against more than half surviving the reviving process, if we ever get there.
But thats not the big problem. Do they really expect that anyone in the prime of their life will take part in this not knowing if they will live through it, or even ever be revived. Can you picture a bunch of elderly peoplewho have been revived trying to keep civilization in a post-apocalyptic world? Our world will end, not with a bang, but with geriatrics with walkers. Sad
Ciao
nahtanoj
"The world would be a bleaker place without homosexuality"
And they contribute what exactly....? I'm not aware of too many gay animals. Maybe you would care to point out some examples of them? If your whole point is to preserve the species then gay animals aren't going to help.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
I think this whole notion of cryonics is a wonderfully optimistic and exciting prospect, but I am extremely skeptical as to whether any of the current practices or organizations can last in the long-run, if only from a pure business perspective.
Look at it this way: In order to be frozen, one must be involved in one of these organizations, as the article discusses. These organizations involve resources to maintain themselves and their "members".
The NYT article mentions that Timeship will need to have be "energy self-reliance (solar or geothermal), as well as resistance to natural and man-made disasters like earthquakes and terrorist bombings."
But no mention is made of *business* self-reliance.
How long is it going to be until our medical knowledge progresses to the point where we can un-freeze the people currently frozen and "fix" them? 50 years? 100 years? 300 years?
And how many technology businesses do you know that have been around for that long?
Unfortunately, unlike a cemetary, a cryonics business involves continuous financial need and maintainance, as well as personnel training (who's going to un-freeze all of these people/things?).
Even with organizations like Stasis (non-profit that's supposed to solve this problem), who's to say that they're going to be around in 300 years? One of the guys in the Cryocare annual even says:
"Paul said he simply disagreed that a non-profit company is more secure than a for-profit company."
I'm a skeptic.
Any thoughts on this?
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
Forcing a bull to copulate with a cow violates both their human rights if it violates their sexual preferences.
Whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa....
Back the truck up sparky. Since when have animals ever enjoyed the luxury of human rights?
Noah's ark was to save a sample of each species so that they might replenish the earth. If i remember my high school biology correctly, a bull dry humping another bull ain't gonna make any calves anytime soon.
One could argue that by saving a male and female of each species (regardless of sexual preference) and having them mate, they would ensure the existence of their brood (who would have whatever sexual orientation they came equipped with.)
I'm tired of using my common sense now.
Its too bad this was not available when Noah's Ark was around. The unicorns could have been saved (if they existed, of course).
Just my $0.04 (adjusted for inflation)
who's the bigger moron Ann Marie or the stupid moderators that moded this garbage up?
They could put Walt Disney on display, giving a whole new meaning to a "Disney theme park."
What the fuck? Why would slashdot even think about posting this?
Just my $0.04 (adjusted for inflation)
"Average suspension fees range from $28,000 to $150,000" How could the average vary so widely, and what is a high cost? Also, where is a theme park mentioned in the article? I didn't see it, but I am not the best reader in the world.
No, no, michael. The purpose is to preserver biological samples, not plastic. They'll have plenty of that in the future.
Wrong. Cryonics does not require constant power. See the FAQ at http://www.cryonet.org
BSCS in May 01
Sig:
Navy nuke sub lifestyle?
Several years ago--at least three--some scientists replaced the blood in a dog(?) with artificial blood and froze it for hours(?), and were able to successfully revive it.
All the (?) because I can hardly remember the story. Does anyone recall? I believe I read it in Scientific American. Please enlighten us if anyone remembers this story, and what the real details are.
My memory has always been like a seive...
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
We've all gotten used to seeing Nixon's head in a jar, so it's gained some semblance of normalcy. [Futurama!!!] But Michael Jackson's head in a jar is just too frightening...
:-o
In fact, it's easier to picture Michael Jackson's head between a young boy's legs.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
"The vision that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's head in a glass jar."
That should allready be possible using the parts that came off in the last few years......
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Wouldn't the best way be to simply launch a transport equiped with an abundance of highly durable photoelectric cells into orbit around the sun? Simply be sure that it emits a radio signal. It could last for thousands of years if necessary, and would not be subject to the problems brought about by shifts in government or economic catastrophies.
Or perhaps run off of interstellar hydrogen?
Either way, what are they going to do with them when they recover the ship in the 24th century? There will be no currency or television, and the Enterprise might not be able to make it to even a space station for several months.
Damn, I wonder if I could organize a mutiny against the bald-headed jerk in that amount of time?
But Noah made the same mistake too much of human society makes today: the presumption that all living creatures are heterosexual and desire nothing but heterosexual sex.
Noah, assuming he existed, didn't give a flying fuck what "kind of sex" animals "preferred," because his goal was not a floating fucking orgy, but survival of those species. Actually, even that probably wasn't his motivation so much as GOD saying "get the damn animals in the boat before I drown you, too, and make sure you get mating pairs." And regardless of what they "prefer," two males cannot produce offspring.
It may have been Divine conscription, but there's no reason to violate individual autonomy like that.
Shut up. Given that the Noah story has the Divine, All-Mighty Creator and Destroyer of Worlds telling Noah to gather two of each animal, I suppose you, as Anne "Noah" Marie, would tell him to get bent, because animals got rights, and like sticking things in their bungholes.
Mo. Ron.
Wirelesslaptop asked, "who's the bigger moron Ann Marie or the stupid moderators that moded this garbage up?".
Hard to tell. Morons seem to run in packs.
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Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
What about Leonardo DiCaprio's head in a jar? Good for launching ships. :)
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Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I was always under the impression that cryogenics wouldn't work because they had not found a way to freeze you quick enough? That the water inside your body would cause cellular damage. Does anyone know if they've actually found a solution for this, or do they figure that this is just one more little hurdle that science will overcome given a few more years (so you'll be thawed out in 2435 instead of 2400)?
I guess the argument of people who try is is that you can't take it with you, and if it doesn't work it won't matter. If it does work, I guess the time you spent dead would only seem like a moment. Unless you believe in reincarnation in which case you've got some problems. One second you're an eagle flying over the grand canyon, the next you're Bernie the accountant from Hackensack. The other question is, what if the future really sucks?
What if television continues its quality decline? And you wake up with the Execution Channel consistantly winning the children's programming ratings? Or what if you get defrosted, and the president (then called Emperor) of the United States is named Tom Green the Fourth? Who would want to live in such a place?
But if I could choose when I want to be defrosted, that'd really be cool, because I would pick 9998. Then I could make a killing on all the Y10k projects going on.
Well, at least this might make spending a year dead for tax purposes feasible.
Let's go, Mr. Desiato.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The vision that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's head in a glass jar.
Rather than a glass jar, wouldn't a bottle of beer be more appropriate?
Oh, my mistake -- wrong Michael Jackson.
A friend once commented that although Volkswagen is based in Germany, their factory in China makes more of their cars. Why? Because the Chinese will work for less money. It's a wonder when Capitalism will collapse: The rich will only want to work for some high wage, their bosses will give the job to those who will do it for less. (nowadays, it applies more to nations as to humans)
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
Lloyd's of London is another lovely old for-profit institution, 313 years old if this information is to be believed. From the history page on their website:
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
The ice-crystals created by freezing water within cells will cause more damage than can be expected to be repaired. After a certain point, its just unrepairable. Even with multiple miracles in nanotech and medicine, the best you can hope for is coming out with a 40 something IQ.
look at it this way..
Well----i can't do it like i wanted, Lameness filter.
If you do it AND it works your alive
If you do it AND it don't work your dead
If you don't AND it works your dead
If you don't AND it don't work your alive
Now put that in a table.
Get your Unix fortune now!
I always thought that show was prophetic.
And now, a word from Matt Groening?s head in a jar . . .
-Peter
Okay, not birds or bees, but some desert insects and other arthropods can survive being frozen. I've seen it first-hand when a chum of mine, who kept exotic pets, froze a scorpion for three months and revived it unharmed.
I believe the mechanism involves a hexose sugar, which at low temperatures forms an inflexible polymer thus preserving cellular integrity.
Transfering this to human beans might prove difficult, unless we can gengineer people that produce this sugar.
Life? Don't talk to me about life...
All brains (Human and other animals) are primarily made up of water. Water expands as you freeze it. Even the best control rate freezers cannot change the basic laws of the physics and chemistry which prevent the damage caused by freezing a brain. Storing the genetic material and/or "saving the code" to a database seems to be a more viable option for permanent preservation.
Easier yet, and usually more available is warm/hot water. Get a cup of coffee, let it cool down a bit and douse the tongue with it. It'll melt the ice layer and voila - no ripping.
With that said, I too got my tongue stuck to a metal pole when I was 11. I just ripped it off, and it hurt. I wish I knew about the water trick then, but then again I probably wouldn't have used it -- oh, the embarrasment of calling up to my Mum "NNNNuuuuuNNNNN! Ny hounge isth shuck who netal whole!"
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
I think it's in otherwise forgettable "The Artificial Kid" by Bruce Sterling that people who go into cryonics has to pay everything they own. So when they are revived, they are poor. If they want to be frozen again, they have to get rich again.
Or something.
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu