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Surround Lights
Branephaid writes "According to this press release from Color Kinetics, (the company that came up with LED-based colored premise lighting and those nifty Sauce lightsticks), a new technology called "Surround Light" could soon enhance our gaming and movie watching. The idea is that the Color Kinetics lighting products are interfaced to your computer to play a "lighting effects track" in the physical room around you. Seems pretty nifty, but probably expensive." The boring folks out there will bitch that there are patents involved but they just want to complain or get off their one track minds. I'm more interested in the potential applications of such a technology. Lightning in a moody scene in a movie? Explosions in a shooter? Surround sound really is an amazing advancement, could surround light come close, or is this just hype?
Been used in pro lighting for some years now. Sorry!
But there exist little transducer modules that you can bolt to couches to literally shake your booty. They cost $1000 and up all set up.
The latest issue of Home Theater reviewed a couple of these things. One is really called "ButtKicker Shaker".
Just a nitpick, but despite the awful logo, it is spelled "Wega", and historically pronounced "Vega".
Your comments on glare and contrast ring true. When a person goes through to tune a video setting, it is recommended to have a constant bias light at 10% of the TV's maximum set brightness (after calibration), a bunch of lights will throw all that off.
I've been wondering if Rob would ever express any misgivings about how the site he and Jeff made popular has now been turned into a nonstop 2600-wannabe rant against any form of intellectual property, a rant that bears little relation to their own opinions. It looked like they had pretty much given up and turned the reins over to Michael and Jon Katz.
I'm reminded of that old L.A. Law episode where the old guy realizes how much the pushy woman has usurped control of the firm and announces, "Now, we're taking it back." (OK, I'm a little hazy on the details - I wasn't the biggest fan.)
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
That's an idea. I haven't read the patent, and I'm not qualified to, but so long as the patent covers a method of implementing this, prior use of the same idea doesn't count as prior art. Whether the patent claims are sufficiently broad to cover the entire idea is a different complaint. Go ahead, attack it if you think it's wrong, but attack it for the right reason or you'll just end up beating your head against a brick wall.
The system can also be used to provide synchronized subtitles and, with the simple swap of a CD, foreign language versions of the same physical print.
You can find more info at the DTS Cinema site.
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
Let's face it, the only way to really "simulate" an explosion in a movie is to hide flash pots behind our speakers.
Don't forget about laser and gun fire. Maybe laser projectors and optics behind the center speaker so when Han Solo fires toward the screen I have to dive behind my couch. I think a movie would be much more realistic if I had actual bullets wizzing by my head.
The possibilities are endless!
If you need a CNN logo to remind you you're watching TV, then you're probably watching too much of it... ;-)
Colorkinetics has been hyping their 'innovative' use of colored LED's for a long time, and have very little to actually show for it. It's my guess that they're after more VC funding.
I would say that their patent claims are very misleading, and the patents themselves probably aren't worth the paper they're written on. Here are the two patents they cited:
6,016,038 Multicolored LED lighting method and apparatus
The systems and methods described herein relate to LED systems capable of generating light, such as for illumination or display purposes. The light-emitting LEDs may be controlled by a processor to alter the brightness and/or color of the generated light, e.g., by using pulse-width modulated signals. Thus, the resulting illumination may be controlled by a computer program to provide complex, predesigned patterns of light in virtually any environment.
6,150,774 Multicolored LED lighting method and apparatus
The systems and methods described herein relate to LED systems capable of generating light, such as for illumination or display purposes. The light-emitting LEDs may be controlled by a processor to alter the brightness and/or color of the generated light, e.g., by using pulse-width modulated signals. Thus, the resulting illumination may be controlled by a computer program to provide complex, predesigned patterns of light in virtually any environment.
There's no way this is a novel invention. Using a processor to modulate and change LED colors? Done for decades. I'm willing to bet that they've never attempted to enforce these patents, and most likely they won't.
As for the video game application, there's maybe a small niche here, but this is hardly earth-shattering news.
Forget video games, I hardly play any. I read books, so I want to hear more about this premise lighting! That sounds like a "literary device" whose time has come. Everybody knows that while most Americans refuse to think, many works of literature don't portray a world of absolutes, and hence require the reader to engage the ol' noggin'. Now, if authors could use LED-based colored lighting, this would allow readers to see the premise in a different light without requiring brainpower. Sheer genius!
This was completely gratuitious and I found it offensive. Thanks a lot for showing gratitude to the boring folks who keep your software free-as-in-speech for you.
Rob, I often feel that you are just along for the ride.
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Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Unfortunately DigiScents is No More
http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/fc/phparchives/seaYou could still leave open cans of tuna around your apartment while watching pr0n, it's much cheaper. :)
Trolling is a art,
The basic idea of expanding multimedia is an intriguing idea - add more effects, make it more realistic, expand the potential artistic complexity.
Wether it DOES anything useful, is affordable, and won't have other complications is a problem. We all recall the Pokemon Epilepsy scare - who knows what malfunctions could plague this even if it is a cool idea.
And let us not forget that old attempt at Smell-O-Vision . . .
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
I guess this is all thanks to Disney. Anyone who went to EPCOT Center in the mid-to-late 80s probably saw the dismal sci-fi heartwarmer Captain EO starring an appropriately glitzy Michael Jackson.
Part of EO's attractiveness was that it was in polarized 3-D (remember the gray glasses with ugly bright plastic frames). To add to the 3-D effect though, the theater included ambient laser light, radially pointed neon lighting, and a few other spotlight effects choreographed to the movie. So when EO fired a beam from his love ray (or whatever) or when his ship went into ludicrous drive (again, whatever), the beam or burst would fly out of the screen and past the viewer.
I imagine this is a lot like that, and I can't say I'd be bothered.
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Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
I haven't seen an industry that had such a fight with its own obsolescence, except for the military-industrial complex. Watch for the MPAA to borrow from McCarthy's playbook. ("I have in my hand here a list of 5000 movie pirates...")
And you think I'm kidding...
-jhp
/. -- the Free Republic of technology.
The light glare off of a round monitor / TV would suck big time. I've got a VVega, and I've STILL got reflections.
Would the main display brighten as well to offset the increase in ambient lighting. The human eye would see the main display get "darker" when the ambient lighting went up. You'd lose some contrast as well.
I'd think it'd be more of a distraction than anything else.
I keep trying to pick fights, but I can't shake this Excellent karma.
I saw "Tommy" at a theatre in New York. They already did something similar during a pinball sequence. Turned the entire theatre into one giant pinball game. It was pretty spiffy.
If you want to be seen, stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want to be respected, sit down and shut up.
Great my wife already says "Do you have to play that thing so loud?" what she going to say when the lights start flashing to the explosions and gunfire! Just more stuff to get in trouble for.
Better than surround lights would be a Surround DigiScents system. Then I could emulate at work the comfort of my own bedroom; empty coffee cups through the left sniffer, musty old mouse mat from the centre sniffer, the two right sniffers would tell me there's some cold pizza somewhere in my unmade bed, and my rear-left would recreate that homely smell of the pile of socks in the corner.
insignificant sig
I respect that you have your own moral views, however I don't agree with them, and realize I won't change your mind, so I will not bother to address them.
What I will address is that the original poster wasn't stating his own views, however. He was attacking Taco's, implying that Taco is being a hypocrite for saying one patent is ok and another is not. There is nothing hypocritical about this at all. There are certain conditions that Taco considers worthy of a patent, and some that are pure horseshit. Rob saying this patent was ok had nothing to do with how much he likes the toy; it had everything to do with what the actual patent was.
I believe IP is incredibly broken. I do think patents have a place, but I think the duration should be more like 10 years. There are a million other reasons I think current US IP laws suck, but that wasn't my point. What my point WAS, is that I'm sick of people whining about slashdot and grasping at any straw they can to attack Rob. It's fine to complain when there's a valid point to complain about, but the original poster had no valid point.
Patents and copyrights are allright when they are there to protect real innovation and development of new technology. From the post, its plain to see that these patents deal with a specific method and implementation of an idea. This isn't one-click nonsense, this is a specific protocol.
Hello, prior art.
Hello, not quite. This patent is for THEIR SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY AND IMPLEMENTATION. This patent in no way states "we have exclusive rights to every time anyone ever uses lights to augment their television viewing."
Please at least try reading the article before jerking your knee. Taco opposes meaningless and assinine patents. No where did he say patents on their own are inherently evil.
I think it'd be cool; bright flashes for explosions .. but you wonder if there comes a point where the game/application is so immersive, people start experiecing real life emotional consequences. At what point can we fool the mind, and do we really want to? Some games are already realistic and scary enough ... =)
"Old man yells at systemd"
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crazy dynamite monkey
I'd rather have the image of the game projected directly on my retina, a la this article. Combine that with good lighting models, and an eye tracking system, and you can do anything you can do with room lighting and more.
Of course, room lighting is much more technologically (and financially) feasible right now, but I can dream, right?
-Puk
Guess patents and copyrights are evil unless they somehow enhance Taco's movie/videogame fanboy-ism. Then they're okay.
Oh yeah, and anyone remember the Jurrasic Park 2 previews? Some theaters rigged up strobe lights to "enhance" the on-screen lightning flashes. Hello, prior art.
Free Hans!
There are probably multiple applications of this to gaming, some good, and some not-so-good. The first thing that came to mind when I saw this story was all the criticisms that were leveled at Myst for its use of sound effects-based puzzles. People pointed out, rightly, that some people either couldn't hear the sound, or couldn't process the stereo properly, and so the game's design inherently eliminated those people from playing. Not that no games should ever use sound as a cue, but the point was that if it is made solely integral to a puzzle or obstacle, then you're immediately prohibiting those people with various disabilities that might prevent them from utilizing the game in the same way as others from enjoying it, or indeed (certainly in the case of Myst) from even being able to complete it at all.
It could also be used for some secondary cues though. One game which popped to mind was Thief, which used stereo sound and surround-sound to enhance the gameplay (tremendously) by giving environmental cues to the location of guards as the sounds of their footsteps propagated through various materials. One could imagine a next-generation Thief-like game that used surround-lights to indicate the ambient level of shadow where the character was standing. Since that is already determinable from the existing screen, the extra light would just serve as a mood-enhancing option, or possibly as an extra sensory input (just as use of surround-sound with Thief enhanced gameplay over just using plain stereo, but didn't eliminate stereo-sound users from playing the game).
I vote B, personally.
Of course, I can't speak for my good friend Meept! over there, I think he might pick Z.
That's Slashdot for ya, we can't agree on anything.
Seems like the logical choice...
actually, just wanted to point out that since this is yet another example of a simple RE-introduction of an existing idea simply to a new medium, it would be hard to justify a patent... however, note I said justify, not actually gain one, but that is another story. Growing up, I have been to several examples of this, from rock concerts with lasers, pyrotechnics and video screens all strategically placed (and sync'd), to outdoor events placing lights to simulate lightening, and of course, lets not forget some of the better planetarium shows. (or was it sanitarium... hmmmm I could be imagining all this). Maybe even throw in firework and various air shows.
However, this would really be great, especially with really scary movies. But my worry would be the liability of stupid people out to steal a quick buck (or several million). Of course, that Nintendo flashing light thingy that brought out seizures in some kiddo's was real enough (although not as prevalent as many enjoyed claiming). hehehe, I am know thinking of the Simpon's episode in Japan, with the seizure inducing cartoons... what was it called?
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
In the ideal/reference film viewing environment, the image projected is intended to consume enough of the audience's field of vision that peripheral sight is engaged.
Given this, it should be obvious that ambient lighting _CANNOT_ add anything to this experience that would not already be addressed by the display technology. Ambient lighting does nothing but pollute the original image content...
As for, specifically, the home market: now that we've finally brought high quality video within the grasp of the general public, and have mature standards for color reproduction in editing and viewing environments, you want to hose all that by introducing ambient lighting???
This is bogus.
Stage and "party" lighting is the only remotely usefull application of this product, but it's worth noting that existing lighting-control standards are quite flexible, and would die laughing if they caught wind of this "surround light" hype...
Palo Alto, CA just replaced most of the green traffic lights (only the green, strangely) in the city with LED arrays, and those things are bright. They look like spotlights. They visibly illuminate things across the street at night. So we're there in intensity. Cost is another matter.
Though I'm not sure if it's worth it as a user, as a developer it's probably not a bad idea to include support, they assured me that there was just a small (10 lines or so?) chunk of code you'd have to include so that systems with this installed could use it with your game. If that's true, why not? I can't remember for certain, but I don't think support was tied to DirectX. (I know I asked, but I can't remember the answer.)
As an aside, this might actually be an example where patents indirectly spurred innovation. I talked with someone who knew the behind the scenes story of this company, and apparently they made so much money from products based on one of their patents that they decided they could throw some of that at a wacky idea based on their technology that they weren't sure would work. Even if Surround Light crashes and burns as an idea, their other products are going to keep them in the black.
Surround light... Sounds like those movies at theme parks where they shoot cannons and stuff... I used to work at Busch Gardens Williamsburg... I saw Pirates a few times (see it if it's still there next time you go). To me, surround LIGHTING sounds like pretty much the same thing... a silly little effect that is kind of fun to laugh at, but not the material that a cinematic feature is made of... I sort of doubt that this will find a market in mass produced movies or video games. With HMD's already cheap enough to be in the reach of the consumer, I don't see why we invest so much time in all of these things that augment 2D screens. I'm not saying that there isn't room for this stuff, and that it's not cool, but really, who is going to invest in funky lighting equipment when a far more effective VR setup that will let you experience the lighting in the game, or movie, costs less?
Eh...
What? The point of getting a patent is not so you go out and develop the technology! Everyone know the point is to get the patent, preferably on something invented before so you know people are using it, wait for infringers, sue and threaten, and collect the licensing fees and damages.
Actually developing a product involves unnecessary time and expense.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
That's a mix that I'd like to hear -- Brass Monkey and Beethoven's 5th.
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Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
What ever happened to the good old days? It seems we can never be happy with what we have. I guess in a culture where technology changes faster than my underwear, I shouldn't be surprised.
I remember when the Atari 1600 (or whatever the number was) came out. That was the greatest thing known to man. Then the first Nintendo came to use and graphics could not get any better than that, and if they could, who would need them, right?
I have to admit that this is all pretty cool, but I miss the days when we used to watch a bug zapper for entertainment. Now we need things to be as realistic as possible without feeling actual pain. Although I imagine that will be next, suits that you wear while playing your FPS game so when you get hit it actually will inflict pain on you.
Personally, I think I am ready to go back to squirrel hunting on the back 40.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
.. I should stop trying to ethernet enable a disco ball?
Set up some triacs on a parallel port, so you can choose the brightness of (say) six lights positioned around you.
Then write a Quake mod that drives them based on dynamic lighting (simple hack to the relevant quakec) and you're away
I wonder if the machine could be fooled into fireworks and strobing lights during the orgasm scene in When Harry Met Sally?
With your new game in the house, would you be able to tell the difference between The Horse Whisperer or The Bridges of Madison County? Wow - this could be a whole new way to categorize movies: "Did it light up the theatre? Not enough Kablams I guess..."
I donate all spillover Karma to the charity of my choice... Ada was still a babe despite what people may say...
The question is really whether these lights would add to the experience or detract from it. I tend to think they would detract, rather than add.
Part of the reason for having a dark theater is to allow you to disassociate yourself with the world around you. With the general tendency of talking and other distractions in the typical theater now-a-days, that's hard to do.
I suspect that lighting as described would tend to remind you that you're in a theater rather than draw you further into the film. And I think that would be especially true in the smaller screen theaters.
Now, I also suspect that in special venues such a technique could be experience enhancing. I feel like I saw a similar thing at some amusment park several years ago. But it enhanced the affect because the "theater" was built with that in mind.
I have serious doubts that it would work in the typical theater.
Sean.
Oooh, I can hardly wait for this in NetHack!
You recite a scroll XNAHT DUAM-
There is maniacal laughter in the distance-
(lights flash in such a way as to inform you that you have wasted a poweful scroll.)
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
This sounds like great fun! I would love to have a dull, red, pulsing light when crusing through a DOOM or Quake level that had lava in it, and I think that if the entire room turned a light blue color when you were underwater in Ultima it would be Really Cool.
Sounds to me more like a cheap CAVE than a problem. It would be the worst when watching a movie, I think. The lack of interaction with the screen, plus being surrounded with mood lighting? How would you stay awake?
Now, if they could have a cave version of 'The Matrix' movie...
-WSAn operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
And effectively. Anybody remember that michael jackson 3d thing at disney? They had lights on the walls in sync with the laser blasts. Made a neat effect.
There may be patent claims, and other such things which always surround the introduction of a new and innovative product, but I'd actually expect to see medical claims against this company too, as movie studios and others develop 'light tracks' for your favorite movies, and game companies develop the same for your favorite first person shooters.
Epoleptics throughout the world beware poorly written 'light tracks' will send thousands into grand mal seizures. This technology will take time before it's perfected, just like those movie rides with theI-Max style screens and the moving audience seats. If the timing was just a little off, it would cause the viewers to loose their equilibrium and puke their guts out. IF this company isn't careful, the lighting effects they're making possible just might have similar impacts.
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--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
The boring folks out there will bitch that there are patents involved but they just want to complain or get off their one track minds.
Was this necessary? It's not "patents" that cause problems, it's many business method patents, software patents, patents on games (like the patented tennis move), and maybe even drug patents and genetic engineering patents, that cause problems, because average (or slightly above average) people can end up infringing them with little effort. If a high school student can discover, implement, and distribute a computer program that infringes a patent, with no knowledge of the patent, how novel can the patent be? Etc.
I personally don't think all patents are evil, and when I see "patent pending" on my box of zip-loc bags I don't get all freaked out about it.
Can you imagine the viruses that people might start writing for such a system? I can just see the headlines now: "Computer Virus causes people to colapse with Epilepsy attacks!!!"
Scary...
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
And they wonder why there's an energy crunch. Let's all add another 500w of lighting to our entertainment rooms, and all the electronic gear to go with it!
Personally I think this is about as interesting as those plasma balls and fiber-optic lamps.
- Sig this!
I wonder if you were to watch that fateful episode of Pokemon with one of these lighting systems in the room if it would flash blue and red lights in the same sequence causing even a greater chance of seizures in epileptics?
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This article reminds me of a passage from Dan Simmon's 'Rise of Endymion,' bk 4 of the "Hyperion" series:
... told us they had been made to be watched _without_ the soundtrack visible."
"... movie-one of the ancient, celluloid kinds that had to be projected by a machine." "...preferred to watch them with the "soundtrack," optical jiggles and wiggles, visible on the screen." "... We'd watched the films there for a year before
Not exactly the same thing, but interesting all the same.
Something related to this that is pretty darn cool is this project from Stanford involving using projectors to project textures, etc. onto 3-D objects. Lots of interesting applications and challenges.
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George W. Bush
President, United States of America
George W. Bush
President, United States of America
I think that perhaps you (and this company) are underestimating just how hard it is to make lights look like much of anything. Theater technicians spend years perfecting this, and they still only generally manage to convey moods. The one thing that theater can generally do is convey fire. I do agree, though, that if done properly this could significantly change media. Think about watching a theatrical production. You're not really aware of the lighting changes, because you're watching the actors. As long as the actors stay well lit you're just being subtly manipulated just like sound effects. It's a great idea, but it's still basically a parlor trick. And like most parlor tricks it depends on things like having your couch in the right place, etc. What looks like an explosion when a light is shining directly into your eyes, might look like a candle when viewed from the side.
Is the ethernet wired popcorn maker, and a guy sitting next to me who mumbles fortune quotes all the way through the movie.
-- The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
The new game in my house is going to be 'switch off the screen, and guess what movie is playing by the flashing lights.
I am guessing that the opening scenes of 'Saving Private Ryan' will be the starter for ten, but 'Sleepless in Seattle' will be the difficult bonus round.
Except for the scene where she is driving at night singing about arses, of course.
-- The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
This sounds really great. What if one were installed in a real movie theater, instead of just darkness? I think that muffled colors could really enhance a movie (but nothing bright enough to make it hard to see).
Imagine The Matrix with monitor-green lighting for computers, muzzle flashes for the lobby fight, firey lighting for the lobby explosion, all on a giant screen. Aww yeah.
A) Woo woo it sounds great, and they've kindly published the interface so controlable from linux, etc...
B) Oh no! They've patented the design. Selfish commercial bastards.
What's flavor of the month on Slashdot this month? Do we like or hate companies like this?
THL.
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Keeping
So could I get a machine that flickers like a 16mm projector behind me. So my home theator will really feel like the moovies.
While using this technology to 'enhance' gameplaying seems a little counterproductive (distracting the players attention from the screen and thus the game), it could perhaps be better used by linking it to a sound system.
:-)
If the music being played in a room were passed to a processor (like a Winamp visualization plugin) which controlled LEDs, the amibient lighting of the room could be changed to match the mood of the music.
Even better - feed a mic in the room into the processor and the lighting could change to match the tone of conversation.
Think about the possibilities of shadowing and sneaking around with a rail gun / crossbow / psionics / dead cat - whatever. When in combat, peripheral lighting in a game might indicate where the enemy is and how close. If an enemy is approaching from around a corner and blocking a light source as it makes the approach, and therefore indicating position and range before coming into view, it could introduce a whole new level of realism in tactics. Similarly, lighting could indicate temperature for puzzle situations, or weather changes that may affect visibility later on, etc. Pretty cool. But it better come with a vibrating seatcushion, too...
The only thing that worries me in this situation is that the system of lights would have to have some sort of safety options. If for some reason the lighting system were able to emulate certain wavelengths at certain intensities, there is tremendous danger of this lighting system being used for harm. A student of computer science could easily change the lighting program so that it would do "interesting things" to those in the room.
/. That it will only be used as a means of input/ouput operations.
I guess it's the whole idea of your computer turning on you as it's finally figured out that you're not going to let it post to
I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw.
there's a new story on linux today about how these light can be controlled by a machine running (you guessed it) linux.
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i'll show you my gun. my uzi weighs a ton because i'm public enemy number one.