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Diskless Linux Kiosks
joestump98 writes: "JWZ (of Netscape and Mozilla fame) has put up an extremely interesting article about using ThinkNic diskless workstations as internet kiosks at his new club, DNA Lounge. Very cool stuff!"
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1300 branches is a lot of terminals - well, for IBM, it's probably an average account, but regardless:
/swap on?
/swap for you ... solving your problem.
Surely your regional IBM office would entertain the idea of producing a version of the Netstation that had a small (4 gig?) disk in it, to put
Seems to me that this is the advantage of open-source based systems like this. If the code for the Netstation were available, perhaps you'd be able to open those terminals up, add a laptop drive, and install your own init scripts that set up
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
NFS version Linux 2.4.4 SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS. They removed all the local caching and everything else in the name of security so that Linux NFS is now slower than a 28.8 modem for anything but mp3 storage. Thank God the NFS hackers haven't decided to fix XFree86. Tommorrow: why users of IDE under 2.4.4 experience premature death.
Good idea... maybe this guy can get in touch with the author of XScreenSaver and pitch the idea.
For those who don't know, JWZ also wrote XEmacs back when RMS was dragging his feet about the interface port, XScreenSaver, the original (good) mail system for Netscape, and is in general a fairly good example of a cyberpunk flavored real-world hacker, complete with shitkicker boots and 'objectionable' hair colors. Once it's open, I'm damn well going to go to the DNA lounge to see what he's put together, despite the fact that I live on the other side of the country.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Uhh... so what's your point exactly? :)
Actually, for better or worse, I've grown quite accustomed to having an internet connection available anywhere I go so I can check on my house, etc. Perhaps the general public hasn't completely borgified themselves yet, but with the current proliferation of cell phones, I doubt it will be too many years before most people will find it difficult to NOT have an internet connection nearby SOMEWHERE.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
You might be able to use a TV as the "monitor" -- see here for instructions. Requires TV with RGB SCART input. Gamers may already know what SCART is, but for the rest of you, it means "Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs." SCART is for connecting dissimilar A/V systems together. It's popular in Europe where they have those funny Pal systems :) Here is a little info. And here is some more.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I think things like these could be a great idea for places like public schools and libraries. These places spend a fortune on computers when they could get some of these and maybe someone could tweak the CD to include some sort of office suite (K-Office, Open Office, etc.) and you would have all any student would need for basic internet use and have the tools to also write papers for classes. I know this would not work for higher end apps such as graphics manipulation and the sort but it could save a lot of public $$.
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people in the world?"
I do this at work, although they're not diskless iMacs they do have preferences and such stored centrally. While it seems like a great solution it's really not because of the whole netboot thing. For some inexplicable reason, the iMacs have to constantly hit the network even for simple things like loading a webpage. We have a total of only four iMacs connected to the server, and not even stressing it much, but even browsing the internet slows the things to such a crawl that I get constant complaints about iMac speed. Open up a second or third browser window and the things become almost unusable.
Mac OSX isn't supported yet for netbooting or Macintosh Manager, so you can't get a modern OS running these things even though it would solve a lot (if not all) of the problems, although later in the year they should be there. But as it stands now, this is a really bad idea that I don't recommend it to anyone simply because it'll just piss off the users and make them hate Macs more. It's so bad that we're moving over to NFS for remote file access (also need to give PC's equal access via Samba) and doing all the multi-user stuff locally.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
In fact, one of the million "business plans that I'll never get around to doing" I have is the same thing as Juno only instead of PCs, using those 386-on-a-chips, a modem and a VNC rom image to connect to a central server. That way no one can disable the advertisements, you can upgrade software with a breeze, the units themselves would be less than $100 to manufacture.
The one thing I can see as a problem is that you can't have sound, which is important for kiosks, but not for free internet access.
-no broken link
(read it a few times before modding it down).
Got Rhinos?
The correct link to DNA Lounge.
Its just for using netscape for crying out loud!
Here's directions for it: double-click netscape. use netscape's common interface.
If they can't figure that out then they haven't been using a computer before anyway.
obviously an internet kiosk is going to have some simple icons and such for the windows users to do.
The NIC price is decent, $199. However, I thought their monitor prices were a bit high. I can easily get a 15" monitor for under $100 and they're charging $130. I can also get a 15" TFT LCD display for around $350 instead a 12.1" for $475. Granted they do offer a small discount if you buy the NIC and monitor together, but not enough. So I would suggest going elsewhere for the monitor. But it would be pretty cool to put in my kitchen as a nice recipie database :).
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
I said about 350, the cheapest one I've actually found was 369 here. But there were several on pricewatch.com that were around 350.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
There was also this one here for 355
There was another one for 355, but I can't seem to find the link for specifics, the main display was here.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
1. Reboot/start system with CD in drive.
2. At the first prompt, type in
and press enter. The system will boot to a login prompt with multi-user support.
3. Login as root, by typing
and pressing enter TWICE; SuperRescue does not use passwords.
4. Enter runlevel 5 (X with multi-user support);
5. At this point, the system will boot and check for new hardware. For now, ignore the prompts and allow the hardware screens to time out.
6. After boot, the system will check the video card and fail multiple times. This is normal. In about a minute, the login prompt will appear. Since there was no monitor configuration the screen might be slightly distorted. If this is too much of a problem, you can logout/reboot/restart and try answering the hardware configuration questions mentioned earlier.
7. Login as user (no password). The default desktop is KDE. If you want Gnome, select it from the Session Type menu before hitting the Go! button.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Dumb me, thinking that would a bit obvious, gets dinged _twice_ for being 'offtopic'. What's up with that?
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
see subject
This could be setup as a screensaver, perhaps it would work as an extension of XScreenSaver, but there would have to be such a mechanism
I was giving this problem (with restarting just netscape, not the entire system) about a year ago to figure out after the Sun Microsystems engineers who where originally setting up our system said it was impossible to do. Enter the beautiful world of open source: I found a program which is basically a screensaver launcher that monitors the X server for idle time, and after a user specified period of time, launches a user specified program. Just set it to launch a shell script with whatever you want to do and you are set. The program is called xautolock and can be found here
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
I am in charge of a SunRay system for a hotel / conference center. We have a total of 120 SunRay systems which are broken up into ~100 guest rooms and 15 public kiosks plus some for me to play around with :). I have almost no complaints about the interface, which just consists of cde with one button, netscape. And since there is some code running to bring netscape up if it crashes, or is closed, most people don't even need to use that button. We give the guests access to some kde games by using a perl script and a web page. The guest is presented with a short description of the games, and if they would like to play one they click on a link. Pretty straightforward.
The moral is that it doesn't matter what it is running behind the scenes as long as the interface they are presented with is good. If you plan to drop them into a vanilla kde, gnome, window maker, etc.. desktop, then people will be confused. But, people don't need all that stuff on a kiosk, they don't care if you do have a phases of the moon program, or a utility to tell them how the system resources are doing. Just set them up with the bare essentials, which in my experience is netscape and a web based email client and a short explanation of how to use it. (I have found imp (www.horde.org/imp) is an excellent choice. It supports pop3 and imap and can be set up with a stock list of email servers or let the guest enter their own. Make sure to tell them that this is not a supported feature, and if they don't know how to get to their email, then they should contact their technical support, not yours.)
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
After reading all the comments, I've changed my plans for including these around the home. I think I should just be able to use some of these things for connecting in just about every room around the home.
First of all, it would be trivial to present users with a simplistic interface having 6 or 7 icons for basic applications, then another for "Full System Access" which would grant the user the as complete a level of access as JWZ sees fit. As the previous poster mentioned, most kiosk users are inclined to check stocks, perhaps send an email or two using the webmail system of their preference, and that's about it.
This functionality will exist for that market ssegment however there will be additional functionality agailable for the geeks who someone else pointed out will be frequenting the club. The system will probably work quite well and those of us who are routinely annoyed by the lack of funtionality of treditional kiosks will have more flexibility.
One minor and trivial issue that I didn't see mentioned (I may have just missed it) was a system state reset on a period of inactivity. This may not include a reboot, but simply a reset to a standard opening state, like the afore mentioned simplified interface, such that when a geek leaves the kiosk without resetting it (like that would ever happen) the next user wouldn't be thrown into an enviroment which would be confusing or not useful to that less technical person. This could be setup as a screensaver, perhaps it would work as an extension of XScreenSaver, but there would have to be such a mechanism, or an easy hardware reset, but as I said before such a hardware reset would probably take a while (especially booting a kernel and mounting everything over the network (On a P200, I don't know how much time that would take...)
--CTH
--
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Well if you check out the page it refers to Dance Not Art. The orginal owner didnt want an art club, he wanted a "Dance Not Art Lounge".
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Strange because its on a CD!
Whats special about JWZ's project is that he did it via a network and he gave great instructions to do so.
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
I've seen diskless (at least externally anyways...no CD/Floppy) Windows 98 kiosks at airports quite often. There's always someone using one, checking stocks or e-mail and such.
Linux, on the other hand, is much less of a mainstream OS, for better or for worse. Some people would be able to convert to it relatively easily, but others would be lost not knowing which program does what (as, for example, KDE applicaiton names aren't always that descriptive.)
They would need to place posters of useage directions next to it for those who aren't familiar with Linux (Including me, I've got a system running Linux, but have yet to make it talk to my Windows PCs on the network, despite trying), and let those who are do their own thing anyway.
It's a good idea but I don't know if a lot of people will be able to use it.
At the bank I work at, we tried going the diskless kiosk route with spotty success. The environment we have in our 1300 branches is currently OS/2 RIPL'd PCs running a fixed set of apps on a locked-down desktop. Essentially, this is a network station kiosk in function.
Obviously, we're looking to get off OS/2 - yet still maintain the spirit of network-booting, locked down environment. We pilotted some IBM Network Station devices. Essentially, these are Unix kiosks - some highlights:
The devices (and Unix kiosk concept) worked really well for us. However, we chose not to implement them for the simple fact that no swapping capability exists. That is, the diskless device, by definition, supports a flat memory model. Therefore, new apps that are introduced there must be analyzed for memory requirements and the RAM must be adjusted accordingly. In our bank, where existing apps change and new apps get introduced regularly, the flat-memory model was not acceptable.
However, for true public kiosk applications where the app profile does not change with any kind frequency, I think the diskless kiosk notion can work very well.
CrazyLegs
"Pork!!" said the Fish, and we all laughed.