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Hormel Gracefully Concedes On SPAM vs. Spam
dattaway writes: "Hormel has given up complaining about 'spam' referring to junk e-mail and makes a good point about our trademark system." Hormel has actually seemed pretty quiet, even good natured, on this front for a long time -- unlike certain companies, they haven't attempted to throttle everyone using those fateful four letters in sequence. (And that would have made them look bad, anyhow. Language evolves.) Now if only they would send infinite supplies of can-cooked spiced pink meat to the nasty kind of spammers ...
The spam term actually predates the infamous Green Card spam by a number of years. The reason that the green card incident was of note was:
1) It was commercial advertisement, which had only recently been allowed on the Internet.
2) They were the first to spam EVERY usenet group (and some multiple times), starting 10,000 simultanous flamewars.
The older usage of 'spam' didn't necessarily mean commercial posting. More like what's called 'crapflooding'.
We had a client who had registered a domain - matchboxbears.com and was asked by Matel to remove it saying they "were diluting the MatchBox brand". Sad thing is, it was an old woman who was in the Guiness Book for smallest teddy bears (she sold them in matchboxes).
There are three reasons:
1. Fruit and vegetable consumption was much higher than it is today, partially negating the bad effects of high-fat diets.
2. Activity levels were higher, particularly in rural populations.
3. Most people died of something else first. For example, before widespread refrigeration, stomach cancer (from eating salted and smoked meats) was a leading killer.
Mr. Trademark-Protector (or should I say, Mr. Hormel-Employee?),
I think you mean "digitally edit the image" instead of "photoshop."
Thanks.
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
http://www.bayer.com/en/unternehmen/historie/jung. html
If it comes from an animal (doesn't matter what *part* of the animal), it's not artificial :).
SPAM (in all caps) is used for the Luncheon Meat, *not* for UCE. It wouldn't hurt slashdot to at least change the letters on the can to all lower-case, and maybe also change the color of the can (there are plenty of SPAM Luncheon Meat knock-offs at the grocery store in similar but different colored cans).
http://www.montypython.net/scripts/spam.php
enjoy, I did
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Hormel has actually seemed pretty quiet, even good natured, on this front for a long time [...]
Indeed, the datestamp on Hormel's page about this is Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:46:44 GMT – nearly three years ago!
Yeah, grilled Spam sandwiches are fantastic!
Whoa, you are smoking tall grass too?? Dope.
Well since we've already got a thread about the food going...
:)
in Hawaii it's really popular to eat SPAM Musubi. They even sell it at 7-11 like they do hot dogs. It's just a slab of fried spam thrown on a slab of rice and wrapped in seaweed. Since I've left Hawaii, I still make it occasionally. My friends in Indiana think I'm weird, but it's good stuff.
And I was so looking forward to Hormel making spammers eat their weight in salty pork products. Now my hopes are dashed!
Findlaw is your friend.
2'nd Circuit Court ruling here.
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
Having been a witness to the scourge of spam that hit Usenet, it still surprises me that at least two years before Spamford really got started, Usenet was getting blanketed with spam by none other than Michael Wolff.
Yes, that Michael Wolff, author of Burn Rate and other tripe. As part of his self-promotion campaign, he pumped out thousands of messages, individually to each and every newsgroup. When people complained about the messages being identical and off-topic, he did the same thing, only leading off with a customized line mentioning the newsgroup name. He did the same thing many, many more times.
I don't buy his books, or read his columns---I've never managed to forgive him for being one of the first to really screw up Usenet.
I have heard that it stands for Squirrels, Possoms And Mice.
V
However, for this story (only) the icon is appropriate. We are discussing "SPAM" as well as "spam".
Follow SPAM with "Luncheon Meat" or other descriptor. Remember, a trademark is a formal adjective and as such, should always be followed by a noun.
I never knew that. But it does make life interesting. As well as arguing over linux vs. gnu/linux, we'll have the grammar nazis insisting it's the linux operating system, and the fsf grammar nazis insisting it's the gnu/linux operating environment.
Of course, it does mean I was right in referring to "that windows piece of shit"
I remember using (and still use today) the term spam over 12 years ago to refer to scrambled data on a floppy disk or on a BBS screen due to line noise. It just meant that it looked like it was chopped up and pressed together.
Do this don't do that Can't you redesign.
I used to have spam for dinner (nearly everyday)in Venezuela when I was about 13 years old. I liked it fried with lettuce and tomato. GOD how we preteens used to punish our poor bodies. =/
Hugo
And Spam, isn't close enough to Uck, that you'd still eat it? :P
--
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Those would actually be pretty good moderation options. More than once I've seen posts which I might have moderated down for being wrong or stupid. They weren't offtopic and they weren't redundant. They were just plain wrong.
Oh well.
--
You're a suburbanite.
Where were you two weeks ago?
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
"Spam"
Spam in the place where I live (ham and pork)
Think about nutrition, wonder what's inside it now (oh boy)
Spam in my luchbox at work (it's the best)
Really makes a darn good sandwhich any way you slice it at all
If you're running low, go to the store
Carry some money to help you buy more
The tab is there to open the can
The can is there to hold in the spam
Oh, spam on the table at home (ham and pork)
Think about selection, are there different flavors now (let's eat)
Spam in my office at work (it's the best)
Think about the stuff its made from, wonder if it's mystery of meat
If you need a spoon, keep one around
Carry a thermose to help wash it down
Now, if there's some left, don't just throw it out
Use it for spackle or bathroom grout, now
Spam in my pantry at home (have some more)
Think of expiration, better read the lable (oh boy)
Spam breakfast, dinner, or lunch (it's the best)
Think about how it's been precooked, wonder if I'll just eat it cold
Now, once you start in, you can't put it down
Don't leave it sitting or it'll turn brown
The key is going to open the tin
The tin is there to keep the spam in
Oh, spam (spam)
Ham and pork
Think about nutrition, wonder what's inside it now (oh boy)
Spam (spam)
It's the best
Really makes a darn good sandwhich any way you slice it
Spam in the place where I live (have some more)
Think about addiction, wonder if I'm a junkie now (let's eat)
Spam in the place where I work (you're obsessed)
Think about the way it's processed, wonder if it's some kind of meat
Spam in the back of my car (ham and pork)
Spam any place that you are (ham and pork)
The tab is there to open the can (spam any place that you are) (ham and pork)
The can is there to hold in the spam (spam any place that you are) (ham and pork)
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
> Does anyone ever actually EAT this stuff?
Actually, I like Spam (the food product--I detest UBE). When I was growing up, we would eat it on camping trips. I think it tastes really good fried. I don't eat it much anymore, however, because of its fat content.
=======
The DMCA--for corporations, the best copyright law money can buy.
Interesting though, consider that the slang term "spam" as applying to UCE *IS* derived from the meat product, and therefore using the image is not misrepresenting.
To say you'll permit one and not the other is a tough sell. The two are mutually exclusive.
Now... had the term "spam" come from something completely unrelated to the meat product, then I can see the issue here.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
So you want SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, and SPAM?
*cue vikings*
Replace it with the tasty "Speat" from Heavy Gear. It's close enough. :) And you can use the empty tins to repair Gear armor....
Let us not forget that Hormel was also VERY upset with Muppet Treasure Island (I believe) for using their name for the head of the tribe of wild boars in the movie...
They're not all soft and squishy, like their meat, they just know when to cut their losses.
hmmmm?
But if your trademark is seen to enter the public domain then everyone else can use it too.
If everyone sells Rollerblades then how do you know which ones are the originals?
Xerox actually has entered the language in some places, which leaves Xerox in the uneviable position of trying to sell Xerox xeroxes..
Four years to realise that fighting the whole world in a battle that no one cared about - except for it's (mildly) humourous connotations - is counter-productive.
Of course they may have been told by their legal advisers that "spam" is now a defacto part of the English language (look iy up in the newer Oxford English dictionary) in both of it's meanings, and as such the use of the word to describe unsolicited e-mail could probably not have been challenged in court.
Bzzzzzt..."AAAAaaaaarrrgh!!!" Thud.
I don't eat it much anymore, however, because of its fat content.
You should try Spam Lite!.
-Bruce
UCE is people! PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!
Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
If the companies don't fight for their names, then not only can the general public use them to refer to all similar products, but their competitors can also.
For those that are from the south, I know you've seen this discussion:
Although the 'Coke' name means 'Coca-Cola brand cola soft drink' in many areas, in some areas, it's used interchangably with 'soda'. (And I think it's still more normal than calling it a 'pop', which is the name I use to refer to my grandfather.)
And for those that believe that any publicity is good-- imagine that there's a scare due to some sort of tainting in the factory, and the headline reads
But then the article says that it's some mom and pop soda company, and not Coca-Cola brand. If companies do not protect their trademarks, this is something that has the potential of happening. (The misleading articles, not the death of people by contaminated coke bottles)Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
And either get rid of the icon, or photoshop it to show locercase 'spam'.
Just making something lowercase does not make it no longer trademarked.
Photoshop is a rather nice program out there to edit pixelated images. It is not a generic verb which describes editing pixelated images.
Yes, the 'spam' image used by slashdot should be edited so that it does not show an image of SPAM canned luncheon meat. However, whomever wishes to edit the image should use whatever pixel editing program they may wish to use, such as gimp or any one of the other fine image editing programs out there.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
For spammers who actually like spam (the meat), that might be encouragement.
I remember originally liking spam, but it needed careful treatment to get a really good tasting meal (this may be why a spam meal in pacific rim countries is rather expensive). Over time, I found it far easier to make a good-tasting meal out of "real" meat. Now I don't eat beef or pork at all.
--
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
It should also be remembered that this was back when most home users were happy to have a 60 Meg hard drive Most server disks were probably in the range of a couple hundred megabytes. Not much spare space for spam postings. Given the relatively lower volume of the usenet back then, a series of spam postings could be problematic for some smaller sites. -- forcing the expiration or rejection of many 'real' postings.
--
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
(spam spam spam.... ) {hundreds of lines of it!)
Originally, spamming really only referred to massive, crossposted postings on the usenet. Various names like UCE (Unwanted Commercial Email) / UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email) were the techinical term for the email 'spam', but Spam is far easier to say and remember (and more fun). People seem to have settled on spam (to Hormels mild consternation).
--
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Must have been after the fact. I was pretty heavily involved in the entire spam fiasco from the beginning (although not as rabid as some were). I've never heard that term. I do remember reading the post where someone compared what massive crossposting of ads to usenet as similar to the monty python spam sketch. It took off right away. Shame I never archived that stuff... :(
Anyway, the term was coined from the Monty Python sketch. Shortly after that, most media outlets that ran a story on spam for some reason said the term came from the idea of "when spam hits the fan" and the resultant crap that flies everywhere.
I don't know where that came from, but it wasn't accurate, but was quoted as authoritave all over the news at the time.
At least I'm glad that pretty much everyone knows the true reason the word was coined in the first place. Small thing, but historical accuracy should always be maintained when possible.
Shame there are no archives from around that time...
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
It's all fair use anyway. It's not like Slashdot is in the "processed-canned-meat" industry and is trying to "fool" consumers. "Duh, hey Slashdot makes SPAM, I didn't know that"
AFAIK trademarks really only apply within a given industry. E.g., if Ford wanted to name a car Spam, that would probably be legal. In any case, Slashdot can always just show the cubical slab of Spam, as opposed to the packaging.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
This issue/suggestion has come up every single time there's a spam story (and thus, the SPAM logo is used). Somebody always, and correctly, brings up the Hormel Policy Statement and points out the problem with the logo.
The post is always, and correctly, modded up to 5, because we wouldn't like to see /. get sued.
The /. maintainers blissfully ignore the recommendations altogether. Do they even glance over the comments anymore? Even at Highest Scores First, Threaded, cutoff at +4, they should still have seen this recommendation half a dozen times by now.
If everyone suddenly stopped posting comments, how long would it take them to even notice?
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Bloody vikings...
------
So i don't mind, if Hormel get's a little advertisement by publicly being 'generous' to all those people calling, uh..., unsolicited email spam. (They should've banned that Monty Python parody, or come about seven years earlier to stop this anyway).
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
For contrast, let me offer up this recent post from Ashtung Wolfenstein!: I wish FOX would follow Hormel's lead. They could learn something.
(For the record, this post isn't intended as off-topic or flamebait or trolling. Just an observation.)
---
My parents' first shopping trip togther went something like this:
Mom: "Look, Spam! Do you like Spam?" (hoping he'd say "no")
Dad: "Sure, OK." (wishing she hadn't asked)
And so we ate spam once, often twice a week for 2 years.
Two years, when neither one would admit to hating the stuff, and we, being kids, didn't know any better so we ate it also.
I think it was my dad who finally fessed up, but I've never had want or need to confirm this. I'm just glad they decided together, before I reached 10 and started considering SPAM real food. Now, I can't stand the stuff.
btw, they're still happily married, and will hit their 20th anniversary this summer.
HI MOM! HI DAD! Congratulations!
IMHO these sound neater
Stupid Problematic Asshole Messaging
Some Poor Asshole Menacing
Someone Posting Anonymous Manuer
Want Root?
One thing you have to keep in mind is that most ISP's, well a lot of them are sort of owned by one large corp. or have some form of agreement somewhere down the line. What's more is the fact that some of those ISP's may be providing colo services for some of those companies sending the spam.
Want Root?
Too many spammers have a variety of resources at their disposals to continue spamming, mixmaster remailers, horrible configurations of sendmail from corporations, and nickle and dime webservers, etc.
Now what may work, is going after those responsible for the advertisements contained in spam. Example www.joebloworsomething.com hires someone to promote their site, and those people send promotions out via way of spam, I feel holding the people at the site responsible is better fitted.
Now bear with me on this a second. Sure it can seem somewhat unfair, but no one asks for spam, and by using someone's resources (bandwidth, whatever) companies should be made aware of how much their actions cause versus the amount of people who actually reply to spam. Think about it, company X sends say 20,000 spam emails a day, of which 1 replies and actually buys something, but out of those 20,000 500 decide to take company X to small claims court bitching...
See the laws fail when they're passed because you can't have one country's law dictate what is law in another country, and many politicians fail to see that when they waste time and money with their so called AntiSpam bills. You don't cut weeds in the garden half assed, you cut them at the root.
Stolen Uranium, and unsolved murders? non fiction at its best
Want Root?
Hm...one could write a faily nasty little Perl script to cause a little financial distress....
Meanwhile........ I plot....
Mike.
--Ask a silly person, get a silly answer.
How long till all the geeks admit "hacker" is the same thing as a "cracker"?
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
As supported by the SPAM FAQ, SPAM stands for "Shoulder of Pork and Ham." The name was decided upon through a contest, in which Kenneth Daigneau, the brother of Hormel's vice president submitted the winning entry.
Yes! That guy!
I've said it before, and I shall now say it again: don't just go after the ISPs, go after the domain.
If you receive a spam advertising www.chocolatemonkeynuts.com, look up the DNS server for chocolatemonkeynuts.com, and complain to the service that hosts it. Get the domain pulled, as well as the web site. Web space is trivial to find, but it takes (a little) more work to set up a domain.
www.eFax.com are spammers
This is an Editorial that was done in a local Northern California trade mag called CCN. There is also a follow-up.
LRJ
it's a reasonable request from hormel. does it matter who dilutes a trademark first? is it really that big a deal for somebody to make a new icon? what would it actually take to get somebody to change the icon?
Actually, I always here it was
SPAM - SELECT PARTS of ANIMAL MEAT
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
I notice now that my link to Hormel Foods Corporation vs. Jim Henson Productions Inc. (the opinion in a lawsuit) is now dead. Anyone got a good link?
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
So get timothy to hack the logo that /. uses. Replace "SPAM" with "UCE". Although I don't know if I'd want to eat something called UCE. Too close to UCK if you ask me.
I have zero tolerance for zero-tolerance policies.
Constitutionally Correct
Since I am/was the little guy I got shafted and they got a domain name back.
Four years later they realize what I was telling them back then, "Deal with it, noone will confuse my site for any trademark of yours."
*sigh*
Why does the little guy always get shafted?
-----
And all these years I'd been told that SPAM stood for Surgically Processed Albino Mouseloaf.
Huh... go know...
Seriously, though, this is the kind of grace that should be prevalent in all industry. That's not to say that they should roll over when their trademarks are infringed, but they don't have to be such asses about it.
Viva the livelihood of Austin, Minnesota. We could learn a lot from the Minnesotan motto of "Make nice!".
Zaphod B
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
I've noticed that too, Actually that is why I said it, not to get the points (they are not tradable for cash contrary to popular belief) but to test that exact theory. Guess my hypothesis was correct. Though I know I'll get modded down for saying that. ;)
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
From Policy Statement: We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE, although we do object to the use of our product image in association with that term. This would seem to say that Slashdot's use of a picture of a SPAM can to denote stories about UCE (Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail) is against their policy. And though I know I'll get modded down for saying it I can see their point.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
Didn't he set up a company to make the first ballpoint and name the company after himself? And didn't he also trademark that invention with the same name?
----
I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
Drangel mused that the new use of the company's top brand might actually benefit Hormel. The theory is that having more people talk and think about spam will cause more people to buy and eat SPAM.
Now who the heck eats SPAM all day?
I was in Hawaii a few years back, and noticed spam sushi pre-packaged under shrink wrap in a convenience store. [Shudder] Little slabs of spam held onto a blob of rice with a piece of nori. The salesdroid said it was a popular item with Japanese tourists.
Funny, but this pops up on *every* spam topic:
Please refer to spam as 'spam', not 'SPAM'!
And either get rid of the icon, or photoshop it to show locercase 'spam'.
Darn, the company is being so reasonable, and we're still doing our best to irritate them with this.
I just don't get it.
---
"What, I need a *reason* for everything?" -- Calvin
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
But even with "SPAM" being used to refer to so many varieties of horrible things, I doubt it has had any impact on the sales of potted meat. If anything, just the opposite -- after reading some of the posts in this article, I'm considering actually buying and trying some. Yum.
--
--
I like to watch.
--
--
I like to watch.
Now we have to change our spam-proof email addresses from bob@NOSPAM.myisp.net to bob@NOspam.myisp.net, for Hormel's sake.
or NOsPaM.
or NOSP4M.
&c...
[pointy-haired boss]: How much is that gonna cost?
[me] Lots, with a good team, we should have it done on about a week
...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
So this a case of accidental marketing.
Works on me. I had never had any SPAM before, but sometime in 1996, something changed in me. I tried it, and thought it was OK. Time passed, and I kept buying the stuff, and started trying out the recipes on the sides of the cans. Those folks at Hormel (tm) come up with some pretty tasty recipes! Let's face in, SPAM-n-eggs is pretty nasty, but Chicken SPAM-on-Bleu is fabulous! So is SPAM-a-roni and cheese, and SPAM and mushroom pizzas.
But take it from me, don't make SPAM cupcakes!
...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
If I had gone away for the weekend, I'd have had 36 legitimate emails awaiting me from friends, family and the Metro Detroit Linux Users Group, and 26 spam emails. If I were to discount the mailing list mail (28 messages), I'd be wading through 26 spam emails to find seven legitimate messages.
Sorry, Hormel, but we didn't write that Monty Python script which seemed to so well describe a phenomenon similar to unsolicited bulk email. I'd be willing to rename it baloney, though.
I've noticed a few posts bashing Slashdot for the use of the 'Spam' (tm) logo in association with 'SPAM' mail that people are so against. While I agree that companies shouldn't use the Hormel logo alongside the SPAM email we all hate there's one difference: People on Slahsodot do (or at least should) know the difference. Heck, that logo on Slashdot is enough to make me consider buying Spam at the supermaket. Seriously. I (as well as 99.99% of Slashdot) known darned good and well that Hormel does not create SPAM email. They make a wonderfully meat-like product (heh) that hakcers everywhere are likely to enjoy.
As a side note... this wonderfully LOGICAL jump by Hormel here I'll auctally try their Spam product. It does look good, seriously. BTW -- they make good Chili in a can. Works freaking great when mixed with Velveta (sp?) for chip dip.
Justin Buist
Meat that wasn't sold right away to butchers would pile up on floors for days, left to be picked at by the numerous rats, who would leave their droppings right in there as well. Then, every so often, the whole load (rats, ratpoop, and the rancid meat) would be dumped into a giant grinder and eventually sold off to stores.
Practices like this prompted the Pure Food and Drug Act, the first truth-in-labelling law.
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
The nufty stuff you learn in HIS104 - 20th Century American History
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
Ironicly, IIRC Upton Sinclair's goals in writing "The Jungle" were more focused on revealing the wretched and unsafe conditions that the meat packers worked under. It was meant as a pro labor book, but the idea of where their food was coming from caught the people's imaginations more readily. Now we have highly improved food safety rules, but meat packing is still one of the most dangerous and damaging jobs you can have. (they might have been helped by the OSHA ergonomic rules, but business leaders fooled everyone into thinking that was just about office workers and got it reversed.)
Kahuna Burger, who's not bitter about her father's hands being mostly ruined after only a few years in the packing house.
...will work for Chick tracts...
CONTAMINATED COKE BOTTLES KILL 4
But then the article says that it's some mom and pop soda company, and not Coca-Cola brand. If companies do not protect their trademarks, this is something that has the potential of happening. (The misleading articles, not the death of people by contaminated coke bottles)
IIRC, a similar thing happened with the bombing at the centenial olympic park. News outlets had been refering to a "tupperware container filled with nails", and the official Tupperware (tm) people got very pissy because they were not only using their trademark as a generic word, it was in the context of a fairly traumatic event.
Kahuna Burger
...will work for Chick tracts...
There are three reasons:
1. Fruit and vegetable consumption was much higher than it is today, partially negating the bad effects of high-fat diets.
2. Activity levels were higher, particularly in rural populations.
3. Most people died of something else first. For example, before widespread refrigeration, stomach cancer (from eating salted and smoked meats) was a leading killer.
To the second point I would also add that during the winter the added fuel of all the fat would be burned off keeping the poor blokes warm. I used to give my family's outside cats (dad insisted, poor kitties) hot fat and meat drippings over their dry food or some stale bread during the winter. It helped them deal with the cold, they didn't get fat from it and like many of our ancestors they died of other causes well before heart disease was even on the radar.
Kahuna Burger
...will work for Chick tracts...
This would seem to say that Slashdot's use of a picture of a SPAM can to denote stories about UCE (Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail) is against their policy.
I have commented on this issue several times. I used to get moderated UP for it until somebody accused me of karma prostitution. The alternative icon that I typically suggest is an overflowing mailbox with numerous pieces of junk mail and the obligatory can of pork.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Couldn't find any mention of it in his link, or at the Bayer site, though.
Aspirin is still a trademark in several countries. See also this Flash map.
Will I retire or break 10K?
How long till all the geeks admit "hacker" is the same thing as a "cracker"?
I'd be satisfied if the media called computer crime "illegal hacking," just as it calls recreational substances "illegal drugs" to contrast with legitimate drugs such as ASPIRIN®.
Will I retire or break 10K?
"aspirin" used to be a registered trademark?
According to this Flash map, ASPIRIN® is still a trademark in many jurisdictions; Bayer had to give it up in the U.S. after WWI.
trademarks slopping over into public domain even before the 75-year trademark expiration date.
Bullshit. Trademark registrations can be renewed every 10 years. This renewal is legitimate, unlike the 20-year across-the-board renewals that Disney keeps buying for copyrights that severely erode the public's end of the bargain under which the Constitution authorizes certain government-granted monopolies.
And yes, I do like the taste of SPAM luncheon meat and SPAMBURGER sandwiches.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Let's own up, it's not exactly like Spam had a terrific reputation before "unwanted commercial email" came along, now is it?
Kudos to Hormel for at least realizing that accidental and even ironic product placement can be good publicity sometimes. How many of us techies (and esp. network administrators) have bought a can of the stuff just to use as a sort of "mascot"?
My sig is too lon
Perhaps we should bear this in mind when we jump on newspaper articles that use the word 'hacker'. A language only means what people use it to mean, and I'm sure it's just as clear what people mean by hacker in context as it is that I don't have pink meat in my inbox.
not_cub
q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
---=-=-=-=-=-=---
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
While there are tons of lawyers in hi-tech lawsuits, all are on the side of businesses, not consumers. Just think of all the b.s. TOS forced upon people buying Windows preloaded on a system. If you turn on the system you've agreed to the TOS before you've even read it. There are many situations like that which could be easially resolved in the courts, but never are. Just look at the Napster trial. Simply using a public Library as an example of fair use would have made napster fall well withing legal bounds. Either the lawyers don't know, or don't care. You're welcome to take your pick.
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
If you don't viguriously protect your trademark, it will become common property. That means I could call my inline skates 'Rollerblades' even though I'm not part of the company that makes inline skate called 'Rollerblades'.
If you produce a product that is superiour then any of your competitions, do you want them to use your product name?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
1)That never stopped any other company ;) ;)
2)Hormell produces Millions of pounds of spam a month, somehow I don't think the few pounds bought by techies once is going to really help. Plus there tasty meat product is now linked to something nobody likes.OTOH maybe they plan on increasing there Spam merchindise(hats shirts, etc...)
3)They must be the exception the proves the rule
Maybe as a group we should send them an email letting them know how refreshing it is to come across executive that can actually ride the cluetrain...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
No, you're thinking of Mr. Bic. A French chap, I think.
thanks to the American invasion of Britain in WWII. (Spam was the arguably single most consumed american import in England during the war years.)
SEX!s.e.x.Sex.53X!sex.Si-Ee-Eks
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
They probably make more money selling SPAM shirts anyways :)
mrgoat
'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
Sodium Nitrate
I just wanted to applaud the more relaxed posture you guys are taking in defending your SPAM trademark. SPAM is an American icon, and like Terry Gilliam, "I love it!" Hormel's image is one of wholesomeness, and it upset me to see you guys taking such a hard line in what was to inevitably be a losing battle. Rest assured that there is a clear distinction in my mind between your product and unsolicited email.
If the management of any company started saying, "oh gee, all this hassle over trademarks is silly, let's just forget about it, or at least back off a little," they be fired and sued by their stockholders faster than you can say "shareholder value". They have to protect their trademarks, period.
Hormel is simply abandoning an ineffective trademark protection strategy for one they hope will work better. Seeming to be "sensible" is just a side effect. Their old strategy, the standard our-trademark-means-this-and-nothing-else, wasn't working. The new usage of the word "spam" is just too well-established to be eradicated.
So now the Hormel party line is that only "SPAM" (all caps) is a trademark, and it's ok to refer to junk email as "spam" (all lower case). It's just a legal theory designed to prove their "due diligence", nothing more.
__
I think that's how we all feel when it comes to the UCE variety of Spam.
Frylock: That's not a toy!
Master Shake: You say that about everything you own. You should own toys. They're fun.
They were spared SPAM.
For the following reasons: 1) As stated, getting everyone to call spam by another name would be impossible. 2) They've probably discovered that it helps business. We have a SPAM (Luncheon Meat) can around the lab that we've named Mr. SPAM. We're geeks, sue us. 3) The executives at Hormel probably have half a brain.
Humorless sig goes here.
However, the first time I heard of spam == junk mail, I asked around and was told "Sometimes Pornographic Advertising Messages" which made sense to me at the time and makes sense now. If anyone can find a "published" location that describes spam as such, please post below.
They are able to sue Slashdot for associating spam email with the meat-esque stuff....look at the topic icon. :)
--
BB
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
Does anyone ever actually EAT this stuff? It must be like owning NKOB cd's or something. You know people buy this stuff, but no one ever owns up to it, and obviously, Hormel makes a tidy profit from it. Hmm? Come on everyone, you know who you are.
There is simply too much glass..
Must be a slow news day. Quick! Send in a submission about IPv4 running out of numbers unless we do something about it!
Well, I'm European and I had never heard about a meal called SPAM before. When I went to the U.S. I saw the cans on a supermarket shelf, and I thought: "Hey, this stuff has the same name as junk mail!" I tried it just out of curiosity... and they won a new customer. A side effect of this story was that now I understand what the "Spam" icon in /. is.
Strength, balance, courage and reason. If you know what's this about, contact me!
I thought it meant "Snakes, Possum And Mice"
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Actually, the use of the term "spam"to describe UCE comes from the Monty Python sketch.
You remember, the one in the cafe, where everything comes with Spam, includiong such delights as "Spam, spam, spam, sausage, egg and spam" etc.
So all the food came with vast quantities of spam, obscuring the rest of the food, just as email comes with vast quantities of UCE, obscuring the real emails.
(The sketch, btw, culminates in the Vikings in a corner of the cafe singing the Spam song -
"Spam, spam, spam, spam.
Spam, spam, spam, spam,
...
"
)
--
People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
Umm...not all ISPs are big corporations people. I own a small ISP and my /etc/mail/access is FULL of IP addresses that we block because of SPAM. Its very,very difficult to stop all of it just because of the sheer volume. DNS Blacklists arent a very good option as we well know because the groups not only add SPAMMERS, but also arbitrarily add people they dont like to the blacklist. (ORBS vs MAPS...remember) Saying that holding the ISPs responsible is absurd. Its like that recently made (screwed up) law, the DMCA..that everyone loves to hate. Maybe we should try to come up with a Collective solution to the problem instead of laying back and pointing fingers.......
I mean Follow SPAM with "Luncheon Meat", do you think these people have every tried SPAM "Luncheon Meat"? They should try and just get used to "SPAM, It's better than nothing". Or "SPAM, Looks like meat, smells like meat, must be meat"
If Rollerblade or Xerox allow their trademarks to become generic words for in-line skating or photocopying, they loose the right to the trademark.
Ever heard of a "biro"? For quite a while nobody used the term "ball point pen" and the trademark is useless.
Zero Sum (don't amount to much). [root@localhost]
It is bad.
Classic example;
think of when you order aspirin. Nine times out of ten do you actually get the brand aspirin or do you get another product with the same properties?
it's actually bad for the sales of the company
..... Trying is the first step to failure
Many computer terms have another non-computer meaning in the US. For example, they are using term "mailbox" not only for e-mail!
It's rare that you see someone giving up rather than sueing. :-)
fp
--------
I strongly recomend SPAM, SPAM, SPAM SPAM, Bacon and SPAM. But of course, there are other options.
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
I know: a stack of those brown envelopes that look all official like they're from a government agency, but when you open them up - just a sales pitch?
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
No kudos whatsoever to those who for years refused to even consider honoring Hormel's quite reasonable requests regarding the use of the SPAM trademark.
After years of sticking to your guns and standing up for what you believe in, you've finally beaten the good guys. Go, team.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
UCE is people! PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, come ON moderators. Have you never seen Soylent Green? This is absolutely hilarious!
Of course, most Slashdotters these days are under 21...
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
Bastards.
BytesTemplar.com
man, i think it's pretty much an unspoken rule that you're not supposed to say that you eat that shit.
Do you seriously think ISP's enjoy getting spammed, or having spammers as customers? Do you have any idea what this costs ISP's on a daily basis? I used to work for an ISP and it's been my experience that they are very anti-spam, not only because it ticks off their customers, it also costs the ISP a lot of money every month. You'd be surprised by how many domains a typical ISP will blacklist and never tell their customers about in fear of accusations of censorship.
Don't you mean R.E.M.?
did you know that if you mix Tang in with SPAM-a-roni and cheese, It not only tastes great but provides you with essential vitamins and fights scurvy!
We have a local free magazine called California Computer News who got in a little hot water with Hormel about an article in which the cover of the magazine featured a picture of a can of SPAM actively being crushed by a sledgehammer. They sent a letter (I can't find it on their website) to CCN and asked them very nicely not to show images of crushed SPAM on their magazine. CCN promptly made an apology in their magazine the next month. The whole point about this is that Hormel was a good sport about it. They said they understand the use of the term SPAM for UCE but that they objected to having a can of it destroyed as a frontpage graphic. To this I agree.
This was handled in a very nice way, not like the snippy letters 2600 seems to get all the time.
My name fits again.
You've missed the point. The companies don't mind that everyone says "xerox that" or whatever. You're right, it's probably good for business, and in practice there's very little they can do anyway.
But to keep their trademark, they have to defend it - so they must go after people who use the name "officially", so to speak, in publications etc. If they didn't do this, they'd lose the trademark and they wouldn't be able to sue if (say) Canon brought out their new Xerox-2000 photocopier.
By being publicly strict but privately tolerant, they get the best of both worlds.
--
Every bloody emperor has his hand up history's skirt [Peter Hammill/VdGG]
Ah! SPAM! I grew up on it. In fact, had it for supper this past weekend. I love it. My friends think I'm weird. But where I grew up (in the Philippines) it's like a staple diet. :)
:)
I fry it till it's nice and crispy and eat it with rice. mmmm
man, i'm hungry now.
I have a good friend who is from Hawaii and he said that it's huge over there. So between the 2 of us we eat spam for everyone here in SC.
~V
That has to be the best veiled political statements in corporate america's history...
I wouldn't feed beef-fed Americans to my dog, never mind other people. PS is it true that the high levels of growth hormones in meat over in the USA are responsible for your fat asses?
God bless those Albino Ninjas...
I just don't get it. It's bad for you company that everybody says "go rollerblading" or "xerox that" ? I would just say that's the best kind of publicity. Your trademark is in the dictionary, for crying out loud! Of course it's different with spam, nobody would like to be associated with that. But still I would say that adds rather than substracts from the value of your trademark. In the case of Xerox and Rollerblade , it's beyond my comprehension. (Oops, sorry, I forgot, a Trademark is an adjective so in the case of Xerox copiers and Rollerblade in-line-skates...)
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
THANK YOU for your donation of 1.0 slice(s) of human meat to a hungry person, paid for by: Hormel.
--
Spam was meant to be fried.
It would financially reward Hormel, while giving the errant ISPs something to chew on.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
I rather like SPAM, and always have. It's got a nice, distinctive flavour
My guess would be that even if Hormel won, people would still refer to junk email as spam. How can you change/stop that?
Here's an example. Did you know that the word "aspirin" used to be a registered trademark? Now it's not. There are lots of cases of trademarks slopping over into public domain even before the 75-year trademark expiration date. Hormel has to be vigilant in protecting its trademark.
For those of you who don't like SPAM, to each his own. Ever try a slice of SPAM with lettuce, tomato, onion and mustard on a lightly toasted sesame seed roll? Dee-leesh! SPAM is a bit like vodka that way--it really does need to be combined with something else for full enjoyment.
Go ahead. Eat your SPAM. Order the SPAMburger Hamburger football. Just don't spam me!
So ya wanna email me, eh? Change
I appreciate your pointing that out, thanks. I must have gotten my terms mixed up.
So ya wanna email me, eh? Change
Spam! in my inbox all day
It's the best.
Thinking about bandwidth,
sending angry emails now.
Spam! Filtering it out,
keep it a-way from me!
The Internet is there
to send you Spam now.
The Spam is there to make you say "ow!"
Reading all my spam-mail, wondering if I'm a
junkie now. Spam!
With apologies to Weird Al Yankovic.
I'm the stranger...posting to
It reads:
Stupid People's Annoying Mail.
--
while (!asleep()) sheep++;
Pre-dating the Monty Pyton sketch by decades and most certainly before UCE/UBE were coined terms, and yes, even before DARPA setup the origins of the internet... Tom Wolfe in his "The Right Stuff" documents one of the original Mercury Astronauts commenting that to the rocket scientists (Werner Von Braun, etal.) the astronauts were nothing but "Span in the can". The obvious reference to pink meat in a metal can having little value has also been used extensively in the Experimental Aircraft community. Airplanes made in factories near such areas as Wichita, KS or Vero Beach, FL are commonly referred to as "Spam cans" (again pink meat in a metal can), because they are all the same and somewhat (obviously?) inferior to the hand crafted "perfection" of the amateur builder's pride and joy. The urban legend(s) of how "Spam" became synonymous with UCE/UBE continue to grow. But anyone wanting to get the REAL story on SPAM (luncheon meat) must attend the annual SPAM JAM in Austin, MN held every year during the week of July 4th. It's a real HOOT! http://www.raceberryjam.com/spamjam.html and http://www.austincvb.com/