Microsoft Delays New Licensing Terms

Reader tempestdata indicates this CNN story, writing: "It appears Microsoft is facing quite a bit of opposition for its new licensing program." It looks like Redmond is granting a one-fiscal-year reprieve to the many companies who were caught off-guard by the announcement of new Microsoft licensing plans. Perhaps some of those companies would be interested in the new KDE 2.2.beta1 -- at least KDE and GNOME don't seem likely to institute monthly subscription fees.

Comments

Re:hmmm

[El]

Microsoft does know how to work the beancounters..something KDE and GNOME really cant do yet.

Uh, isn't that because you have to actually be charging money before you can "work the beancounters"?

should be a clue

[JohnG]

MS is treading on dangerous ground now, IMHO. On one hand they have acknowledged that Linux/Open Source is enough of a threat to start their FUD campaigns, (which has possibly served the opposite of what they wanted since IBM didn't seem to keen on the remarks and might just push Linux even harder.) and on the other hand they are issueing new licenses and registration requirements that are only going to push other people away from them.
If the threat of the DOJ and the possible British anti-trust trials aren't enough to make them stop the insanity, at least something they have showed signs of fearing should. Oh well, a guess a leopard really can't ever change his spots
Personally I would pay good money if Apple would come out with MacOS X for Intel. It wouldn't be that hard with Darwin already ported, and with Mac's ease of use, AND the power of UNIX, I imagine alot of companies and indeed average Joe Schmoes would choose MacOS over Windows.

The bit I argue with...

[MSBob]

KDE and GNOME don't seem likely to institute monthly subscription fees.

Isn't the whole idea of Ximian based on charging subscription fees for software services?

Recent trends from Redmond

[s20451]

The Microsoft Algorithm:

1. Float trial balloon with extremely controversial idea.
2. Observe public reaction.
3. If people are sufficiently upset to consider switching to Linux, tone down the idea and go back to 1, looking like the public-sensitive hero. Else implement the idea and make a bundle of money.
4. Go to 1.

Re:Recent trends from Redmond

[Speare]

The Microsoft Algorithm:
1. Float trial balloon with extremely controversial idea.
2. Observe public reaction.
3. If people are sufficiently upset to consider switching to Linux, tone down the idea and go back to 1, looking like the public-sensitive hero. Else implement the idea and make a bundle of money.
4. Go to 1.

This is Microsoft. They're competent programmers. They know the best ins and outs of writing good programs. This skill is what has kept Microsoft on top all these years.

So any Microsoft programmer knows you're supposed to add new line numbers by TENs, so that you have room to insert bug fixes later.

So that's:

• 10 Float trial balloon with extremely controversial idea.
  ... and so on.

Get with the program, guys!

Angry Customers.

[neema]

""Never in my career have I seen the customer base so angry at Microsoft," says Rob Enderle, an analyst with the Giga Information Group. "They were calling Microsoft things you wouldn't want your family to hear."

Obviously not a visitor of Slashdot, now is he?

Re:hmmm

[faeryman]

yeah, thats my point. Microsoft panicks them with possible budgeting problems, then turns around and says 'oh, no, its ok for you to upgrade now if money was your problem etc'. granted its not hard to work the beancounters, but MS does a grand job of it.

KDE/GNOME arent even considered at work because they dont cost money. as stupid as it sounds, if they charged for it we would probally use it. go fig. so KDE/GNOME dont even get a chance to play the beancounter game.

yeah.

the extension will not be sufficient

[Wansu]

There are many organizations who haven't yet fully deployed Win2k and have no plans to deploy XP. The 4 year cycle cited in the CNN story sounded typical. The outfit I work for probably won't be in a position to deploy XP for at least a couple more years. The developers despise using NT/2k. A skunkworks development environment already exists using non-MS OSes. If MS turns the thumb screws, things could get interesting.

who the fuck else wasn't surprised?

[garcia]

are they just allowing *ALL* companies (except those w/the obvious resources to handle the new licenses) to wait a year?

I honestly never thought that MS would go quite this psycho on licensing...

Did you?

Sherman Antitrust Act, anyone?

[El]

Microsoft seems bound and determined to trigger another antitrust lawsuit with the release of XP/.NET. The first suit lost them 60% of their stock value... I wonder what the next DoJ action will cost them?

Speaking of .NET, would you trust Microsoft with your data?

Re:Sherman Antitrust Act, anyone?

[El]

From a high of $120 in December of 1999, they are now at $66... I certainly wouldn't call that "recovered 100%". Check www.nasdaq.com, stock symbol MSFT, and ask for a 2 year chart...

Said it once, I'll say it again...

[Diomedes01]

Unfortunately, I don't think that this really changes anything. Microsoft, for all we bash them here, is not stupid. Stupid companies go out of business. They may have shady business practices, they may not make the greatest software, but they are certainly not the imbeciles we often make them out to be.

My guess is that they are doing this in order to gauge the marketplace reaction to their subscription model. Many people don't feel the need to upgrade, and it's possible they've got something under their belt that will change that in the next year (or at least they hope it will change).

KDE is certainly nice, but for your average Joe Sixpack, it still isn't quite there, and corporations already have a huge installed workforce already trained and familiar with Windows. It will take Microsoft driving customers away (already begun) in combination with the maturation of one or both of Linux's desktop systems to really get things moving. Much of the software already exists, but the user base simply does not.

This creates an unfortunate Catch-22, because many pieces of software are useful, but are certainly not polished for the masses, because the user base isn't large - and the user base isn't large because the software is not polished.

One thing that Linux on the desktop needs more than anything else is a standard look and feel. Diversity is certainly a good thing, but it's hard to explain that to someone who has to learn a different set of menus for every single piece of software that they want to use.


-------

leaves you looking for alternatives...

[bbh]

It really does leave you looking for alternatives. At universities, often many labs are used for students to log into some web based instructional tools and to print up papers. It makes you seriously think about the viability of a lab with Linux, StarOffice, and Mozilla or Konqueror. I know in many states there have been budget cut backs and it leaves you wondering if it is best to completely avoid these types of Microsoft agreements. As all budgeting takes quite a bit of planning and red tape, this type of shifting of licensing agreements is a little scary. Does anyone know of any universities that actually use a set up like the one mentioned above?

bbh

Re:leaves you looking for alternatives...

[transiit]

Speaking from firsthand knowledge of Cal State Fullerton, I can say that the unix variant and workalikes of all CS labs. The setup here is one beefy Sun box, a few NT servers lying about, two labs full of Macs (that I know of. The open lab is rather dated. The instructional lab is full of G3's which I believe are being replaced with G4's soon), and lab after lab of Dell pentium II systems running...win95. Only recently has work begun on setting up a full-fledged Unix lab stocked with a bunch of Ultrasparcs.

The problem: Most of the CSUF CS department (faculty and students alike) are really excited by two things: Windows and Java. It's all I ever hear out of them, and there's only a small (but dedicated) group of *nix lovers hanging about trying as best as we can to bring about changing this (I'm still looking for hard evidence on this one, but allegedly, back in the days before BSD was the hot ticket, there existed the Fullerton Unix extensions.)

For what it's worth, you can walk into the back of nearly any lab on campus and look out upon the screens at what people are actually using it for: The usual breakdown is that half the room is talking to the other half over the AIM. Throw in some generic browser usage and the occasional VC6 user, and there you have it. I'm firmly convinced that a suitable Linux (or *BSD (or even BeOS)) replacement could be made...most of the people I talk to tend to follow two lines of thought:
1) "But Windows is popular and Java is really easy to program! If I choose something else, won't I be limited to a really small number of jobs?"
2) "What do you mean that you only use joe and gcc to do all of your projects? How can you keep track of three files at once? What if you need the online help?"

[DISCLAIMER TYPE="RUMOR"]
From what I hear, the school turned down a _free_ site license for metrowerks Code Warrior a few years back. Our speculation is that it would've put any agreements with microsoft in jeopardy.
[/DISCLAIMER]

I'm doing the best we can to either fix some of these problems or scare away some of the "Point 'n Click" programmers, because I'm in CS for the love, not to listen to a bunch of whiners out for money.

-transiit

The pattern is clear

[sg3000]

Clearly Microsoft has been using the press to float trial balloons about controversial policies. Instead of discussing the policy with customers (like a company that doesn't have a monopoly has to), they formulate a Machiavellian policy, float it in the press, and watch the firestorm. If it looks politically manageable, they proceed. If not, they repeal it as a misunderstanding.

Ziff-Davis had a story that described how Microsoft had to back off of SmartTags and their upgrade policy. Remember when Microsoft spammed their users (Infoworld, 1999) to encourage them to write to congress to promote their "freedom to innovate"? On the other hand, they're policy to rent software was a miss in 1997, but they're doing it now with Office XP.

The result is that, these policies get postponed, but Microsoft just keeps trying. Either they're waiting for people not to notice an especially odious policy (or to be too jaded to care), or for their monopoly power to be so entrenched that it doesn't matter anyway.

I'd like to think that this is an example of the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. I suspect another expression will sadly become more appropriate; To paraphrase Mel Brooks, "It's good to be a monopoly."

Re:The pattern is clear

[IntlHarvester]

Just want to agree that there's a certain Slashdot -> Trade Journalist -> IT Customer -> Microsoft (or other vendor) circle in place that is effective. (Hell, I was quoted once as "one Slashdot poster" once in ZDNet. Whoop.)

The key bit there is the journalist. I see Slashdotters making hay about lots of important things, but only certain issues (Smart Tags or content protected disks for example) bubble through. Others, like DVD content protection or the DMCA are noops in the computer journalism world.

When we get down to the issue of Microsoft's actual pricing schedule, Slashdot is not the place to go. OGG SAY MICRO$OFT BAD AND GATES SMELL FUNNY AND LINUX COSTS NOTHING is the attitude here, not detailed understanding of the price breakdowns and what it actually means to a business' bottom line.

One thing to note is that if MS sees Linux as a serious competitor, raising prices isn't the obvious response. Either MS doesn't think there will be serious compitition in their core markets for the next couple years, or they are ceading the low end of the market. But that's a little too subtle.
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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:hmm

[El]

Yes, but Linux as a server OS and Linux as an embedded OS is already kicking Microsoft's ass... do desktops really have a future, or will 95% of PCs be replaced by embedded devices (e.g. web pads) ten years from now? Having a lock on the buggy whip industry doesn't do you very much good when everyone is buying cars... look at Novell, for example -- how much good is the fact that they used to control 75% of the NOS market doing them now?

Re:one reaction

[Diomedes01]

I wonder how many companies (small companies, most likely!) are considering the same thing?

I think that small companies are where Linux is going to have to make inroads into the market. They are more nimble and able to adapt to changing conditions, and are thus more easily able to adopt a different development and/or desktop platform. It is the larger corporations that will find it the most difficult to change over. We can hope that a sort of domino effect will occur, but it will take a lot of effort, and a lot of luck.


-------

Microsoft's extra profit == your job

[eap]

The next time you sit down to your Windows PC at work, remember that these sorts of licensing fiascos cost your company real cash.

The company has to make up for the increase in expenses somehow, and we all know how most companies are doing that these days.

This quote alone..

[Liquid-Gecka]

makes my business professors argument that Microsoft has in no way hurt business.

The protests over Software Assurance arose because the program and the 2001 deadline to enroll were announced after enterprises had set budgets for this year. That meant enterprises likely had to either raid existing budgets or trim workforce to enroll.

If companies are laying people off just so they can afford the new Microsoft license system it is a sure sign that companies are being hurt by Microsoft's monopoly.

I am sure this is an extreme example, but even still, it makes you think..

Linux firms - use this in ads!

[Blue Neon Head]

This is a Red Hat ad in the making: Picture an IT manager looking to upgrade, and the friendly customer service representative chatting his ear off about licensing options. Or IT guys getting a call ("The system's down!"), sprinting and scrambling to a little closet to fix things up, only to find a screen blinking "SOFTWARE EXPIRED: MUST UPGRADE."

And then ... the pitch: "Tired of being pushed around by your software? There's an alternative ..."

Re:Linux firms - use this in ads!

[Masem]

(Borrowing shamelessly from PvP:)

[Guy 1]Hey, Fred, ready to go bar-hopping tonight?
[Guy 2]Oh, man! No way! My Microsoft licenses have all expired, and I've been phone-tagging between IT and the 1-900 number trying to get them back. And all I need to do is give my boss this damned memo tomorrow morning!
[Guy 1]Oh well, your loss.
...
[Guy 1]Hey Sam, ready to go bar-hopping tonight? [Guy 2]Sure, I just finished up that 100 page report in AbiWord, and port scanned that 'lite hacker at 127.0.0.1, all thanks to Redhat Linux! Let's go find some babes!
[Announcer]RedHat Linux 7 : Because someone is going to get laid tonight.

Re:Linux firms - use this in ads!

[zhensel]

I think they're trying to say that the guy runs 14 ecomm websites spread across 79 servers and it runs so well that he has nothing to do except sit in his office doodling with his slinky. Now, most network admins would probably be taking the euphemistic approach to that rather than the literal, but who's to say?

Make your company immune

[sg3000]

> "Microsoft is saying 'we made a mistake,'" says
> Chris LeTocq, principal analyst with Guernsey
> Research. "They listened to IT executives."
> Those executives were saying they could not
> afford the new licensing model this year.

Any IT manager out there worth his or her salt should ask Microsoft for an extension, begging and pleading for time. Then immediately put together a task force to reduce their company's dependance on Microsoft's products. Maybe not completely (they do have a monopoly, you know), but be able to put your company in a position where you have a second vendor for any product Microsoft makes. That way you have a second vendor to keep Microsoft honest. That means instigating policies such as "all company documents should be stored in an open format like RTF or even PDF, but not like DOC."

That way, the next time Microsoft floats a trial balloon, your company can have a credible alternative to give Microsoft in response.

Remember, your first responsibility is to honor your fiduciary duty to your company's shareholders, not to Microsoft. A simple concept, but something overlooked in all companies I've worked for.

Re:You so stoopid!

[poetic justice]

I work for a DoD contractor. We build datawarehouses. We play with BETA's. We are a real company that makes a profit. You don't know what the hell you are talking about...

So true

[Anonymous Coward]

...considering that my company (20,000+ desktops, and 300+servers) is for the first time looking at linux on the desktop. We're primarly running netware servers and windows desktops with a few sun boxes for variety. Here are a few quotes from a standards committee meeting:
"Microsquish"
"...can shove it up Balmer's.."
"We need some ALTURNATIVES"
and most importanly:
"if only Linux was viable on the desktop"
I'm not making this up. Another concern was that the whole IT department would have to be re-trained for linux, in addition to a lot of other people, which would be very expensive. Someone quietly noted that it'd be cheaper than $10 to $20 MILLION in microsoft taxes. Someone else mentioned that the dep. of defence is moving over to linux (see, sometimes it's GOOD when people don't read the whole article). In case anyone had any doubts, there IS interest at the enterprise level.

I probably shouldn't be posting this, but if it gives a few developers the extra motivation to hurry up and produce a 'consumer' linux...

I'd put my money where my mouth is, and pitch in, except I'm working full time and working on an engineering degree at night...so no flames please.

Thanks for the extension!

[sg3000]

> Microsoft has pushed back the deadlines for
> enrollment to its new licensing program by five
> months

You got an extension this time, but if you're late again, they're going to have to break your legs!

Re:frighteningly smart microsoft allows piracy

[einhverfr]

thus getting a big user base. better than free software. later they turn the screws. very smart cookie, that gates.

I don't think that they planned on this, nor do I think that they realize how much this will hurt them. However, they don't really have a choice at this point. Microsoft has backed themselves into a corner (as far as business models go) and can't get out.

Open source would not be where it is without one very positive thing from Microsoft. They came into an industry which was dominated by players who were interested in selling a few copies of their software to businesses for several thousands of dollars per copy and realized that most of their expense was in development. So they undersold their competition in order to dramatically increase the market size and take advantage of this economy of scale. This tactic has helped to make the personal computer as affordable as it is today and such operating systems as Linux possible (the development of the internet has also helped this dramatically).

This model is only sustainable in a growing computer market. If the market ceases to grow, then it becomes harder and harder to maintain the revenue streams necessary to pay developers and still sell the software at insanely low prices. Microsoft executives know this and they know that their stock will tank or worse if they don't do something.

So here is their plan:

1. Cut down on piracy. This helps with the immediate cash flow.
2. Try to dominate the middleware market with .NET (given that their plans to, in their words, "pollute" Java failed to some degree.
3. Force people to pay them subsciptions for their software.

These strategies hinge on #2, dominating middleware, and I doubt that they will be able to pull it off because #1 will alienate them from some customers and induce a lack of trust and they will be facing competition from a variety of sources, both comercial and open source. So they will have trouble collecting royalties.

Anyway, this indicates that Microsoft is becomming aware of the problems that it will face with these companies but still has yet to grasp its full impact.

lets get real with the average joe

[itsnotsammy]

listen guys, OSS is great, I use it for my all of my servers, and my database's... but, ya know what? Guess what is on my desktop?? Thats right, windows, 2000 pro to be exact. Ya know why? Because in general OSS on the desktop, is very badly implemented. Sure, there is KDE and GNOME, but think of what you have to do to maintain a working desktop... Sure, at first getting it up is easy, but maintaing it from the home users point of view- i dont think so. This may sound like a good/bad idea for you guys... but, get a central "company" (no, redhat doesnt cut it) that distributes a single distro of linux, get the KDE and GNOME guys together to create a SINGLE desktop environment, bind it to that version of linux, write *home* apps, that use a STANDARD interface, market it for the home consumer, and sell it for $20 a pop. If you want OSS to replace windows, and have true innovation, then do that.

Re:lets get real with the average joe

[iomud]

Sure, at first getting it up is easy, but maintaing it from the home users point of view- i dont think so.

apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade -y is too hard, how about we make it an icon? Seriously things are getting better just take a look at KDE 2.2beta1 it almost makes gnome look comical, as far as I'm concerned kde is the standard interface, they're not about putting airs they release early and often and are cranking out great stuff. Take a look at apps.kde.com and the thekompany.com. I'm all for a standard interface, I just think we can choose one that comes out of healthy competition because we all have our prefrences and no one can agree about all of them. Now... On to preemptiveness and low latentcy!

Re:KDE and Gnome for business? Yeah, right.

[einhverfr]

KDE and Gnome? Are you suggesting business actually RUN KDE and Gnome? You are kidding, right? OK business world: Go install KDE on everybody's desk and watch your business crumble. Get real folks. KDE and Gnome are nice for the tech crowd but they ain't for the business crowd. The licensing is attractive, but whaddya expect for nothing. Mac OS X perhaps, assuming you can get the apps you need to run on that platform. But KDE and Gnome? I think not. For more businesses than not, Windows is still the only realistic option. Could Microsoft get away with this highway robbery if it weren't?

I assume you are not trolling because your opinion is the most prevalent one I have seen in the business world.

That does not mean that it is the truth. There are a few problems I have seen with using if for businesses but they are comparatively minor. Abiword is still in beta and is missing key features like footers which makes StarOffice the only reasonable office suite (I have had stability problems with KOffice, sorry, and OpenOffice still lacks spell checking capabilities). Windows is the only realistic option because people think it is. But that is not the case, and I have run a business entirely on Linux. When I have needed to, I have written basic CRM apps, etc. in PHP and run them off Apache.

With the licensing issues, I run freely redistributable software as much as possible on my business machines. It exposes me to far less in the way of licensing liabilities, and prevents proprietary lockdown of my data. The worst problems I have ever seen with Linux in the business have been solely caused by workers being afraid to make mistakes, and so refusing to save their documents on an unfamiliar system. This is a problem but a 5 minute instructional introdution will reduce the worst problems here.

The real problems are psychological, not technological.

Re:KDE and Gnome for business? Yeah, right.

[molog]

OK business world: Go install KDE on everybody's desk and watch your business crumble.

Why would using GNOME or KDE cause all productivity to stop? I have been able to use these desktops to get work done. Can you give an example?

Get real folks. KDE and Gnome are nice for the tech crowd but they ain't for the business crowd.

What features that are needed for business are missing from either of these desktops that Windows has? There are database apps, office suites that are not so bad to use that people can not get work done with them. (Hint if DOS is still used by many buisness out there as I have seen then how would GNOME or KDE on Linux be worse?) You offer no examples, have no evidance and in a latter post complain that you got modded down. Unfortuanetly I have probably been trolled but if you can give some answers to my questions then I might change my opinion of you.
Molog

So Linus, what are we doing tonight?

Most people don't seem to have read the article

[throx]

It's not the subscription charges that the companies are upset about, nor is it about the cost of the subscription. Read the article again! The real problem the companies had was the fact that Microsoft changed the terms after they had fixed their budgets for the year and doing this sort of thing plays absolute hell with the bean counters.

These companys were already paying a subscription fee for their software (so they have the priviledge of upgrading whenever they want) at a fairly reasonable price (paying for the software about once every 6 years - a lot less than buying every 4 years costs).

This anger isn't about the new "subscription" model they are planning for consumer software. This is simply about changing their pricing structure without enough advance warning.

NOT funny

[rodentia]

This is not bullsh*t. I've found myself lying and making up costs for the software libre work I've been doing. If you don't have costs you get two reactions: they either write it off as some unsupportable nerd nightmare that will require three PhDs to maintain or they hit pause and give you blank stares.

This in an environment of severe budget constraints. You would think they'd be falling over themselves to adopt this model, but the fear of the unknown is palpable. They tell themselves that no one ever got burned going with MS. Besides, with the beast setting the upgrade schedule, they've got more time to work on their swing.

Re:NOT funny

[nathanh]

I've found myself lying and making up costs for the software libre work I've been doing.

I've been in the same situation, and I've found an easy way out that doesn't upset my conscience. You just buy lots of other junk in addition to the software.

For example, you want to install a brand new web server. The beancounters can't comprehend that the software licensing costs are $5 for the CDR shipped from my local Linux distributor. So instead of confusing the poor people I just order the entire O'Reilly bookshelf. The beancounters are much happier when they see "Software+Manuals: $1500" and I get something to read while the CD installs.

Re:Offtopic:leaves you looking for alternatives...

[manjunaths]

Ok...this *is* offtopic (-1). But I saw some posts telling that KDE is there but not yet blah, blah...
I work for a federally funded program to improve Math/Science skills in 10, 11 and 12 grade kids. We also have a computer lab (read win98 lab)for rudimentary work. I had installed KDE/Linux on one of the machines. The kids routinely come and chat on yahoo and browse the web and write reports etc., on the windows machines.
I thought none of the kids would use the linux machine as it was *wierd*. But recently I have seen a girl who had been branded as *dumb* use the linux machine. I was surprised to see that she was listening to real music, checking mails, chatting on yahoo and writing a report using StarOffice. I asked her how she was doing she said ok and gave me this look as though I was picking on her. She also printed her report and just walked. Now other kids routinely use that machine also. They have actually grown fond of some of the games on KDE and now and then a fight ensues. My guess is a KDE machine with pre-installed StarOffice and working sound should be able to replace a win98 machine in public labs.
But their only complaint is no AOL....now I can't help it can I ?

Re:The Grand Strategy

[Bob Uhl]

Heh. I'm no moral dualist--the idea that there is an absolute good and an absolute evil has always begged the question of how one can tell which is good and which is evil; really, for a Zoroastrian to serve Ormuzd or Ahriman makes no difference, as either way he is serving some nebulous power. I've always adhered to the idea that there is an absolute good and a whole lot of more-or-less not-goods.

But Microsoft's software makes one think. It is neither so externally elegant as the least slime to have been quelled in the depths of Apple's R&D labs, nor so internally elegant as the least of the rejected patches to Linux, FreeBSD or any other Real OS. In many ways, one wonders if Microsoft is, indeed, the Absolute Evil without which Absolute Good is nothing.

But I believe that after further consideration one realises that M$ is, after all, not truly an absolute ill but merely a very nasty thing gone horribly wrong. It does have its very few saving graces, however few and far between. And even Unix is not the absolute good. Our permissions model is positively antediluvian, to give one simple example (true, honest-to-goodness capabilities would be so nice). But for all its warts, Unix (the idea) and Linux/BSD (the children)--even Solaris and HP-UX (the natural children)--are far far better than Microsoft's cruft.

One can see that, as Microsoft has failed horribly to reach OS decency, and Unix has failed far less horribly, that we are duty-bound to learn from the lessons and mistakes of Unix and progress along the path towards true OS perfection. On the one path, madness and misery. On the other, freedom and frolic. Which is the obvious, and correct, choice?

Re:KDE and Gnome for business? Yeah, right.

[mrgoat]

You know, I have faced this exact issue in a startup (now bought up) that I was working for. Having to try and find affordable apps and platforms that the business folks will accept is damned difficult. The business crowd is very picky about what they will work with. It doesn't matter if it crashes or malforms table data or whatever- if it doesn't look the same way as the last thing they worked with, the office flaks just WILL NOT touch it. Consequently, they stop producing anything.

This isn't any different with most IT/IS staff either. I did testing of OpenBSD/IPF vs. PIX vs. Nokia/Checkpoint...guess which one the senior management would authorize on a PO for an enterprise, 7x24x365 fw? PIX. Even though it finished last for stability and security and only a bare 2nd in cost. Same thing goes with other products as well.

Unless the business and the founders START with open-source systems, they will likely default to MS for most things and other proprietary boxes to fill the gap. Just facts of life. Firms like KPMG will ding you on their audits if you don't run something that is "well-known" in the business world, and has a support contract from that specific business...this is how a lot of vendors keep their stranglehold on the market with clearly inferior products.

Now, on the other hand, I know of a lot of artists and freelancers who are moving over to Open Source and BSD licensed products for their work. They don't have to answer to anyone in terms of how they produce, they just need to produce. This is the group of people also most likely NOT to buy into MS's wacky licensing models.

If there is any place where Linux/BSD is going to find some inroads in the user market, it will probably be in the K-12 and 2 year college systems. These folks don't have the resources to keep up with an ongoing licensing issue that .NET represents to them, and they don't have to please corporate auditors. And, after having tried the latest KDE, etc, I have found that the features not to be too dissimilar, stability is about the same, and there is MUCH less product bloat in the Open Source apps.

Having supported both MS and Unix products, I would have to say that once the admin is trained, it is MUCH easier to manage multiple workstations, servers, and applications over Unix. Cheaper too. Lets hope some more schools figure this one out.



mrgoat

Let's get the facts straight

[RelliK]

1. MS fights like mad and lobby's like mad to get the results of Judge (I-Think-Bill-Gates-Is-Napeleon) Kaplan's trial overturned. Mission: complete.

Ahem, that's Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson. Kaplan is the guy who heard DeCSS case.

2. In lower court, challenge findings of fact and re-visit the "is or is not a monopoly issue." Mission: pending.

The appeals court has upheld the findings of facts in full, and most of conclusions of law. They completely threw out only the remedies portion of the ruling. This is what the lower court will now hear -- remedies, not facts. The ruling is actually pretty devastating for MS, but with remedies being retried, MS has won time, and time is of the essence!

3. In the public spectrum, declare Linux/OSS the "number-one threat to Windows/MS in the future". Mission: complete.

They actually put an even beter spin on this. Open Source is the virus that threatens all businesses. As soon as you use OSS, it infects your business and forces all your code ever written to be released in public domain. So the Microsoft parrot claimed.

4. Related to number 3, reinvigorate claim from first trial that "MS faces significant competition from outsiders, for example, Linx". See Number 2. Mission: complete.

Yes! But I can't help but to recall Ghandi's words: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Just last year we were at the laughing stage. Now we have definitely entered the fighting stage.

5. Attempt to put into the claim that MS can control market prices. Create an unpopular licensing scheme and watch customers revolts. Be responsive to those demands. Force the question: "Why would MS, as a supposed monopoly, be responsive to customer demands/needs? Answer: we have to because we aren't a monopoly!". Mission: complete.

While this is plausable (and indeed an intriguing idea -- I hadn't thought of that before), I doubt this is what happened. It is more likely that Microsoft simply needs to find a better way to milk their customers now that there are fewer reasons than ever to "upgrade". Also, this trick wouldn't even accomplish what you claim, since the appeals court declared them a monopoly (see above). If anything, it would actually strengthen the argument.

6. Brow-beat friendlier-than-last-time-around DOJ into dropping Sherman claims, plead guilty to minor technical infractions of business laws. Settle with a relatively minor fine to the Federal Government. Mission: pending.

DOJ already won most of their claims. Nevertheless, that does not prevent a token settlement.

7. Settle with disheartened states, perhaps filing a motion to break the class due to lack of a favorable finding of fact. Pick-states off one by one, smallest first with paperwork/smallish settlements. Mission: pending.

See above. Findings of facts have been upheld in full.
___

Re:one reaction

[Malcontent]

Most small businesses rely on small local consulting companies to help them set up their servers and workstations. Believe me no business owner is going to set up a network and wire the building and install NT. To the local consulting companies Linux is a big win. Their bids come in lower or they profit more with the same amount of money spent. Target the local consulting companies.

The Goon Show live from Redmond

[nagora]

Henry: Who was that at the door, Min?
Min: It was a nice robber-man, Henry
Henry: Did you tell him we have no money, Min?
Min: Yes, Henry.
Henry: And what did he say to that, Min?
Min: He said he'd give us a year to save some up, Henry
Henry: What a nice chap! We'd better get started; get your suspenders on, Minnie, we're going to Amsterdam.

TWW

that includes you

[RelliK]

Direct quotes from the article:

Critics say the program is a response to customers that have not been upgrading to new versions of software, most notably Office, and a way for Microsoft to rectify that loss in licensing revenue. Microsoft has reported nearly $7 billion in revenue in the past three quarters this year for its desktop applications division, roughly equal to the same three quarters last year. The revenue accounts for 37 percent of its business, so that means 37 percent of Microsoft revenue has not grown over the past year.

and, my favourite:

A study by Guernsey Research shows that enterprises on a two-year upgrade cycle will save 19 percent in licensing costs, but that enterprises on a three-year cycle will see a 40 percent increase in costs.

No matter what spin MS tries to put on this, it is clear that they tried to milk their customers for all they are worth and the customers rebelled.
___

Business people are not morons...

[alexhmit01]

I realize that since most can't code, many of the Slashdot Hive mind seem to think that the business men that run their businesses are morons.

Ya know something, not everybody can code, but I bet you they understand accounting and corporate strategy better than you.

With a separate managerial ranking instead of promoting within the company, we do have the unfortunate scenario where front-line managers don't knows what their subordinates are doing. This eliminated the Peter Principle, but created a management vs. employee mess.

However, they are not dumb. Most of them use the features of the Office suite that supplies their productivity.

Guess what, your deal-maker CEO may not know much beyond e-mail and word, but I bet that your CFO crunches out spreadsheets with a degree of complexity that you don't understand. Maybe your administrative assistances can't code, but they problem use Outlook's Exchange support to administer their bosses schedule. As everyone is pressed for time, freeing up 2-3 hours of scheduling and planning is a lifesaver to 80-hour a week managers.

Your analysts may not be able to run a Linux box, but they can problem use the Access databases that they had IT whip up for their data entry personel to enter information in, and export it into Excel for detailed analysis.

If you are a small firm, whoever does your accounting probably finds Quickbooks (Win32 only) a life saver.

These programs are extremely powerful with acceptable UIs.

Sure, your random family with a PC and no real need for one (a bit of web surfing, e-mail, and the kid's school reports) may not need Office, but a corporate environment can really take advantage of it.

Until spreadsheet designers actually TALK to the people that use them, they won't understand what is necessary. Merely trying to clone Microsoft's means that you won't overtake them. You may become good enough for home markets, but you offer no compelling reason to switch. If I am using version X of a program, and X+1 comes out, I'll decide if it is worth it. If your Free version is as good as X-1, no way I'll switch. It it is as good as X, no way I'll switch. If you are better than X+1, I'll likely switch. If you come between X and X+1, well, I'll have to decide if I want the new features.

Guys, the costs of MS software aren't that significant per employee. Given the cost of an employee (office space, salary, perks, payroll taxes, etc.), the cost of equipment (computer equipment, furniture, etc), the $1000-$2000 in software to get them productive is rather small. Sure saving $500/employee for 1000 employees is real money., it's half a million. But if it reduces my employee's productivity a fraction, I will likely lose FAR more money in lost productivity.

For company's with 10,000+ employees, sure MS costs a lot. But what is their revenue/employee. What reduction in productivity is necessary to wipe out the licensing gains?

The real interesting thing here is that IT staffs know that as users upgrade on their own, they get a disaster. They also know that MS has them in a bind. If they don't upgrade, it'll happen anyway as a disaster. If they do upgrade, they'll likely benefit, but corporate accounting isn't that simple. Their department has a budget, a large change is problematic.

The problem is NOT that it is not worthwhile to upgrade, these company's WANT to upgrade. The problem is that the budget process has made now a very bad time.

Look, I love my BSD boxes. I also love my OS X workstation. I also like my Win32 laptop that lets me run my Win32 only applications.

However, the sooner the community stops patting itself on the back and starts solving problems, the sooner Free Software will make a difference.

Why should we win? It's morally better to let people help their neighbors. If I have software, giving a copy to a friend to help him out is the RIGHT thing to do. We want to win NOT to beat MS. We want to win because it will make the world a better place.

Alex

Something to keep in mind about IBM

[einTier]

I took a short contract at big blue a bit over a year ago... and there is an extreme undercurrent of hatred for Microsoft over there.

IBM is a huge company, and has been around for a long time -- and an elephant never forgets. Trust me, they have never forgotten the burn that MS put on them five or six years ago. The hatred is more intense there than it's ever been here on Slashdot. It runs so deeply that only recently did they start using MS software in any real capacity, and certain applications are still generally banned. Believe me, they are waiting for the day they can push MS out of their buildings entirely. And, they know that day will come. Not today and not tomorrow, but one day.

IBM isn't the biggest company in the world, but they are still huge, they have more money than they know what to do with, they have been down this road before, and they are just waiting, biding their time until the iron is hot.

It might be Linux, if this is the right time, it might be something else if this isn't. When it happens, IBM will be prepared, and they will know what they are doing this time. The attack will fast, fierce, and devastating. I'm just waiting and watching. IBM is just waiting and biding time. They've got plenty of time, and plenty of money, and a burning hatred. Awakining a sleeping giant indeed.

Re:Gnome and KDE are bloated

[maroberts]

Last time I checked, Gnome and KDE were both bigger than an entire Windows 95 OSR2 installation.

I think a fairer comparison would be with a Windows 2000 installation, but its a fair cop that KDE is not a small installation anymore. Anyway my last RH7.1 installation of KDE came with KOffice and a true comparison would be to the total installation size of Windows 2K plus Office.

But what do you expect when everyone has been winging for several years about how poor Open Source desktops are in terms of quality and features when compared to Windows ?

Now KDE (and possibly Gnome) are getting close in terms of having large amounts of quality, decent software people are starting to winge about how bloated it is. My answer is to say "you know you've just saved several hundred dollars per PC by not installing MS Windows and Office ? Well spend $40-50 of those dollars on putting a 256MB DIMM in each PC".

For years we've been saying that Linux desktops need to look as purty as Windows and have the same volume of quality software (and crash less often than Windows). Well now we're very close to getting what we want you can hardly complain about the amount of memory/ disk space it eats.

Konqueror is slowly becoming my web browser of choice over Netscape and even IE [yes I know its an MS product, but IE is still a good browser]

(looking forward to when KOffice can reliably edit MS-Word documents so I can kill my last Microsoft PC)

Does this holdoff tell us something?

[mindstrm]

The only reason MS would hold off, it seems to me, is out of fear of reprisal from their customer base. They need people to upgrade constantly, to keep revenue steady.

I get the feeling that the number of 'unnecessary bloated forced upgrade uprchases' a-la office2000, winME, etc, are starting to annoy normal people as well as us geeks... I know the whole office upgraded to office 2000 due to 'compatability' with other offices and document formats.. but nobody really had a reason for actually switching to office 2000 based on features.
If MS pushes things too far, they might just cause people to seek more favorable licensing terms, considering the massive change in cost.

I'd like to thank Microsoft...

[exMicrosoftJunkie]

...for all their encouragement in switching away from its server platform over the last few years. We've now finally completed the switch, and are much happier.

I'd like to thank Microsoft for all the help they've given us in this process:

• The Halloween documents, which gave us the heads up about that wonderfully flexible and open server platform, Linux.
• Attempting to use Java as a political tool, instead of focusing on providing customers with actual functionality. Of course, Sun used Java as a political tool too, but Sun provided value to customers at the same time, rather than treating their customers as expendable pawns.
• Sending out lawyer's letters to companies, including the one I'm referring to, demanding licensing audits for no apparent reason, and following this up with very threatening behavior when said audit was not performed instantly.
• Scaling up anti-competitive and anti-customer behavior to fever pitch in the past year or so, putting its business practices on the radar of top-level executives through critical articles in sources such as CNN and the Wall Street Journal. As a result, any mentioning in high-level meetings of reducing dependency on Microsoft, received approving nods without even needing to explain the reasons.

All in all, Microsoft, you've done a wonderful job. Your PR and customer relations efforts are as masterful as your software.

Here are the details of the switchover I'm referring to, for anyone else out there who might want to do something similar.

Starting in early 1998, we began a redesign and rewrite of all in-house systems at a billion-dollar financial services company which I consult to on architecture and design issues. An important part of this redesign was to convert all in-house and customer applications to support web browsers as the primary user interface. At the time, the company was a 100% Microsoft shop, and IIS/ASP along with SQL Server was chosen as the primary server platform.

However, on my advice, this company used Javascript as their server-side scripting language, and Microsoft Java (J++) to implement business objects on the server. The justification for this was the potential for portability in future. VBScript and VB would have been too uncomfortably proprietary. In addition, I recommended that as far as possible, they avoid use of MS SQL extensions, and do their data processing in Java rather than in non-standard MS SQL stored procedures.

A year or so later, Microsoft effectively pulled the plug on their J++ product. Uh-oh, my recommendations suddenly didn't look so good. We now had two choices: bet the future on something called .NET, even today a proprietary vaporware product with an uncertain future. Or switch away from ASP and move to a more open solution, eliminating the pathological dependency on a single vendor.

We chose the latter. We evaluated alternatives and eventually settled on a Java Server Pages solution, using Javascript as the scripting language. This meant the existing pages required only minor tweaking and changes to wrappers to be ported. We switched the business objects from from Microsoft J++ to "100% Pure Java", which gives us a choice of compilers and VMs (Sun, IBM...), and as part of the deal gave us a whole lot of Java 2 functionality which Microsoft had been depriving us of, by lagging the Java standard by years.

Now, in July 2001, we have finally begun running one of our application servers on Linux, just as a proof of concept of the portability of our system. This has worked like a charm - a system that once seemed so reliant on Microsoft technologies - IIS, ASP, COM, J++, ADO, ODBC, MS SQL - will now run on most server operating systems, with any web server, with any Java compiler and VM (except Microsoft's!), and with any reasonably standard SQL database. A stunning turnaround!

I should point out that the applications I'm talking about aren't simple web apps. They handle the back-office processing for some of the most complex financial transactions I've ever been involved with, and I've been consulting in the financial services industry for 15 years.

This conversion has all been coming together over the past few months, so it's been wonderful to sit in meetings of company department heads and have questions raised about our dependence on Microsoft, and be able to answer by saying "we are no longer dependent on Microsoft for any of our servers."

The IT manager is even beginning to talk about Gnome and Staroffice, now...

Re:Gnome and KDE are bloated

[infiniti99]

Last time I checked, KDE came with more applications than any version of Windows ever has, and the apps are much more useful and stable too. Out of the box, KDE is a working system. With Windows 95, all you have is solitaire.