Slashdot Mirror
The Well-Connected Park Bench
|proc|meminfo writes: "MSN is bringing internet access to park benches in Bury St. Edmunds, England. The bench (for now) will be in Abbey Gardens, and those with laptops will be able to hook up to recieve free MSN internet access through the bench. MSN says it should be ready for operation in August/September."
Interesting to see Microsoft's approach here -- a park bench on the internet is a good idea. The concept of connecting community centers with computers predates the Net and is going on all around, though; you may find these two academic overviews (here's one, and another) intriguing, especially the mentions of the Berkeley-area Community Memory project. And looking beyond parkbenches, various community networking groups like consume.net are working to decentralize Net access, at least for those living where coverage is available.
A strong democracy that is privatising the tube against the wishes of Londoners (who voted against it), a relatively open government that publishes almost no information unless it has absolutely no choice, whose home secretary said "Freedom of Information acts are for oppositions", as he neutered a manifesto promise.
Of course we could go into the huge strength of the government whips over such areas as privatising Air Traffic control, and the same open government that felt that it would be a good idea to kick two of their backbenchers that didn't toe the party line off select committees.
Also isn't it great to have all of this privacy, with cameras on virtually every road (something you don't see in America), the fact that the police can collect DNA evidence even if you've committed no crime (recent house of lords decision, the police do not have to destroy DNA evidence. So just arrest the whole of the population once. Should be quite easy to do it over a period of a couple of years)
The RIP bill is basically awful legislation, and I hope that somebody pushes it through court soon so that they can see what the European Court of Human Rights says (which we lose at a lot, with our fantastically open government and strong democracy)
Once you're done with whatever you're smoking, please pass it round to the rest of us.
This is just one step closer to my ultimate dream: the internet park!
Just imagine--sitting in the grass, in the sun, hacking away at some code that you've pulled from your sourceforge CVS archive through the ethernet port in the tree behind you.
Ahhh....a geek can dream, can't he?
Let's try not to let fact interfere with our speculation here, OK?
Rumour has it that the British government is looking at getting a national Windows/Office site licence for all UK citizens, to be paid for by a computer license fee (similar to the BBC television license fee). The reasoning is that everybody with a computer needs Windows (which they do for connecting to the government's MS-only websites).
Microsoft and the British government are good buddies. The UK government's web sites all run on MS systems, and only work with MS browsers under Windows. The minister in charge of them also issued an edict to eliminate non-MS systems (such as Linux) from government computers, and warned public servants that mentioning the "L-word" could endanger their careers.
Britain is becoming, at least on paper, an all-MS shop.
But this is MS. Isn't that sort of like the serpent showing up in the Garden of Eden?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
where I lived, someone once stole the Bob's Big Boy from its perch in front of the restaurant. They dragged it down the street and left bits and pieces trailing all the way to its hiding place.
</bear_with_me_here>
Honestly, the only reason I could see stealing this would be to say "Hey, I have an Internet connected web-bench in my front yard."
I couldn't think of a reason why anyone would really want to do this? Don't you already have enough Microsoft owned "web benchs" in your home right now? I have sat in front of many of them all over the country. This one better be padded. At least then it would be comfortable
yeah but with wireless, you don't have to be at the bench to use it, including that guy across the street in his office. Too many people I bet would get on and slow it down.
Just let's hope the bench doesn't collapse under you when you try to sit down on it...
Hey, the CCTV cameras pointing at the bench are not meant to stop vandalism. Or at least not that kind of vandalism. Their real purpose is to take pix of people who are naive enough to think they could haxor under the cover of the bench's "anonymity".
are you going to vandalize/destroy today?
I hope it's inexpensive, because people tend to destroy things when no one is watching. I can just imagine these things not getting much use because the jack smells like vagrant urine.
You only pay 31% tax? Here in Australia, the top bracket is 48%. Sometime long in the past the top rate was 101%!
---
Contrary to popular opinion, THE INTERNET IS NOT *IN* THE BENCH!. Stealing an ATM is one thing.. there's value there (presumably the money, although I've been told it's impossible to break into them, maybe that's just the cops spreading FUD so I don't try it). Stealing a park bench with a Cat 5 jack and some ethernet... you'd have to be making some kind of political statement or something. There's no way it'd be worth your time to steal a park bench with a Cat 5 jack.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
dowloading little girls with bad intent...
:-)
(apologies to Ian Anderson and all of you
...is now all the weirdos and creeps on the internet can keep track of the kids they lure from chat rooms while they sit on park benches waiting for solitary joggers to go by...
...hmm...maybe I should have posted anonymously.
Incidentally, do you think Slashdot helps develop quickfire debating/joking skills?
For example; if you connected (via PC, PDA, phone, whatever) to the net and you were asked where the information your device was receiving was coming from, would you be more likely to say "My [device] is on the net." or "The net is on my [device]"?
Or am I taking your post a little too seriously : )
Ahhh... the joys of wireless ethernet. I can plop my laptop on top of a clothes hamper and still keep up on IRC and read my email. It's grand.
Its probably a tax writeoff, too. They can classify it as a charitable contribution.
Though, of course, corporate tax writeoffs will be going away if Bush's administration has its way on the issue (which it probably won't). Why? Because the Bush administration is taking the stance that corporations shouldn't have to pay taxes at all. This amounts to, effectively, another upper class tax cut (is it time for another one already?) Normally these things take a few years (see table).
Upper-class taxes over time in the US:
1945: 91%
1946-1963: 88%
1964-1981: 70%
1981-1986: 50%
1988: 28%
1991: 31%
If such a cut does make it, I'd expect to see fewer "charitable" actions by big companies like microsoft. But, I'm sure there is more at stake than just a tax break. Like you said, they could be striving for advertising revenue. I'd also suspect they may be trying to make inroads into local governments - the whole "its free... for now" system - one of their favorite tactics.
-= rei =-
Look at me, still talking while there's science to do.
You obviously listen to Rush Limbaugh, he's the one who publicized that faulty statistic. Here's the truth on the issue. There's some other statistics there too - they had one similar to what the US could do if it taxed like Germany there (abolising the US poverty line in addition to paying off the national debt).
-= rei =-
Look at me, still talking while there's science to do.
My apologies. I've seen so many people quoting that "tax income doubled" argument that it gets old after a while. Additionally, your post didn't make sense with the parent, if you'll look at it - what does it matter, the percentage of tax income from a particular group, when the overall money into the government was the critical issue? Yes, the amount of people making over 500,000$ notably increased, which raised the top tax bracket - but even after this increase, they were still only 1/5th of the 1% of the population. The middle class stagnated, and the poor lost ground. Thats why overall tax increases were relatively poor - as was mentioned in the previous link, Reagan's tax gains were tied for 6th and 7th of the previous 10 presidents (statistics compiled before Clinton)
So, I completely miss the point of your showing that, by helping 1/5th of one percent of the population, giving poor overall tax returns, and hurting the majority of the rest of the population, that this was a good thing.
This link goes into more detail on the percentage breakdowns.
-= rei =-
Look at me, still talking while there's science to do.
This obviously isn't the solution, or you could apply it to any tax level, no matter how low. The obvious solution is more graduated brackets. Look at the boom economy the US went through from 1946 to 1963 - the US was a Juggernaut. What was the top tax bracket? 88%. What was it when Reagan went into office? 70%. He cut it to 50%. How did this help the country? Well, it obviously helped close to a fifth of 1% of the people move up into the newly lowered bracket. And the corresponding change in charitable contribution? -65% in the top 1% (they didn't need writeoffs) (the poorest in the nation actually increased charitable contributions, despite being notably worse off... its really sad). Any other changes? Mm, not really. A little bit more tax money, a few more elite, and a drastically lowered charity level.
Regardless, across this century, there has been one noticable trend that has followed steadily with the closing of tax brackets - the difference between the distribution between the rich and the poor has been widening drastically. You claim that cutting taxes for the middle class and poor was a mistake. And what tax cut are you referring to? When you include social security and payroll taxes, the tax rate has gone up on everyone except for the top 20% (and the top 1% has notably gone down). In short, the only observable trend we've seen in the US over time is a steadily more topheavy society as we remove the difference in income taxes (like the topheavy society that was fixed when income taxes were first used to try and equal society out, resulting in a boom). We should look to Europe as a model - where they manage to be, relative to their population, modern economic powerhouses, with a much better distribution of wealth, amongst other factors.
-= rei =-
Look at me, still talking while there's science to do.
"Right, because we were still recovering from the Great Depression. The DJIA did not regain its 1929 high until sometime in the 60's (I've got a chart at home, but not with me). Then, through the 70's we had stagflation, the worst possible combination in an economy, where the only options are even higher inflation, or an even worse economy."
Um... what? By the end of the war, the US was *not* recovering from the depression. Unemployment and poverty levels were not at a low. The DJIA hit nearly 700 during that peroid (the 1929 levels were, what, 140?). So, I have to ask: are you just making this up?
"Isn't more tax money the whole point of taxes? And aren't more elite a good thing? I'm confused about what you're objecting to here."
1/5th of 1% is an insignificant measure. The whole point of taxes is not about money, that's too narrow of a view. The whole point of taxes is to increase the american standard of life and safeguard for its future. By taking away 65% of upper class charitable contributions for a nominal increase in living standards is certainly *not* a good thing.
"Maybe so, but the poor have, on an inflation adjusted basis, been getting steadily richer. So, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the
top 1% is getting richer FASTER. Why begrudge another man his success if you are still better off than you were?"
At the end of the reagan era, the average poor family had less *non-inflation-adjusted* income than the beginning of Carter's presidency, let alone inflation-adjusted. The middle class was about equal. The big increases in standards of living for the poor and middle class came from the 40s to the 60s. They've been slowing, and in some cases, reverting, in recent years. Hardly desirable, to say the least.
"This is a lie. America is richer (yes, on a per capita basis), has higher employment, and a more economically mobile society (which is to say, those below the poverty line stay below the poverty line for a shorter period of time). If you like Europe so much, then move there and leave those of us who enjoy keeping the fruits of our labors alone"
What's a lie? Back your claim up. Here are my numbers. Where are yours?
And, don't be ridiculous. Saying "move elsewhere" is like telling a somalian to solve his hunger by going to the nearest grocery store and stocking up on food. The reason we have our current system is that it can adapt and change - taking into account the best policies that others are using, and coming up with our own new ones. It is every citizen's responsibility in this country to try to make it the best country that it can be.
And don't get into this "taxation=theivery" argument you're heading towards. You'll only shoot yourself in the foot, m'dear.
-= rei =-
Look at me, still talking while there's science to do.
(correction)
"... for a nominal increase in living standards"
to
"... for a nominal increase in tax revenue"
-= rei =-
Look at me, still talking while there's science to do.
Why not? Because some deviants would vandalize / destroy / steal it.
I seriously doubt placing PDAs in parks would promote much anything besides vandalism and/or theft, but that's just my opinion.
At least you didn't say something to the effect of "Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of those?!" (No, I cannot -- I was born Beowulf-imagination-impaired.)
Blue would be appropriate.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
The UK government's web sites all run on MS systems, and only work with MS browsers under Windows
Actually I think you will find the situation is being rectified.
One of my colleagues was a key implementor of the Secure Government project in the UK, and the whole lot is based on Linux.
Don't think that the UK civil service blindly follows government ministers, and if anyone of you have ever laughed at the TV show "Yes, Minister" you will understand what I mean.
For other examples of where the UK government is not a blind MS-led sheep, check below:
The full facts from the best source on the web
What IT people are doing about it
Embracing Open Standards
This area is subject to much FUD. Please don't encourage it.
This piece of legislation gave the British government the wholesale right to monitor all electronic communications in Britain and the EU.
Someone please tell me to not feed the trolls.
It does NOT mean they can "monitor" Internet connections in the UK, and the certainly can NOT monitor Internet connections outside their soverign ownership in the EU.
It DOES mean the Police can request information about IP addresses from ISPs so the b*stards peddling Kiddie Porn and terrorist material can be hunted and caught.
Why don't you do some research before you type? Us British are not so concerned about government control, because we have a relatively open government and a strong democracy. Arguably we have a much more open & private society than the USA, and thus your opinion pretty much sUx
I think they should worry more about vandalism.
:-(
Well spoken. It's a fact of life in the UK that if something isn't welded down to the ground it will be stolen.
It's the way it has always been, and it is getting worse. People vandalise just for the sheer thuggery of it, and unless the connectors in this thing are as bullet-proof as a BT phone box, they won't last a week.
CCTV or no CCTV, it will be destroyed.
Compare and contrast: I'm in Tokyo working this week, and in the big popular Car showrooms, the cars all have their Gearnobs, Indicators, and Cig Lighters in place, because the people here have more basic respect for other people's property.
If only we could learn some of this in the UK
That's sounds like a great idea, but what if I decide to connect my iBook up to it, and proceed to hax0r the gibson? Surely, they would have to set up some kind of surveilance so that the park bench doesn't become "uber hax0r HQ".
No, they will do what most ISPs now do. They will have a connection to the Internet bound through a tightly-configured Internet Proxy and/or Firewall product.
This will allow you access to a restricted range of web content, and probably ensure you cannot visit Sex sites and the like.
This is probably a good idea from a decency persepective, as I for one wouldn't like to see one of my Nephews catch a glimpse of some sweaty perv's browsing habits when out in the park for a stroll!
And CCTV is a way of life here, our governments long ago abandoned the ethical viewpoint and even gave grants to councils to install them, to try and curb the rampant violence and crime on UK streets. I am sure I have read we have the most CCTV'd country on the planet now.
This is one of the most dangerous places in the developed world if you do not maintain a streetwise attitude.
We all know those hobos are a wiley bunch. They will start making web ads and beg for money at every site that hosts an x10 popup! Some things just should not be online; Toasters, lavalamps (well maybe, i wouldent mind watching my lavalamp remotely), Garbage pails and finaly hobos. They will demand opensource Dinner!
Hey! Wanna see some of MSNBC's ASP code? Just overload the site so it produces errors and prints out the .inc filename. :)
http://www.msnbc.com/m/inc/std.inc
----------
qslack.com
Sitting on a park bench, eying .jpg's with bad intent
snot running down his nose, greasy fingers keying adult check login coodes,
AQUALUNG!!
pressure/grep
--------------------------------
Microsoft Fucking Sucks!! Up The Penguins!!
- A.P.
--
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
-------
Caimlas
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a01a8'
Maybe the processor wasn't "seated" properly. Causes all sorts of unpredictable errors.
[
Its probably a tax writeoff, too. They can classify it as a charitable contribution
If you had bothered reading the article you would see this is being installed in the UK.
This means costs are met by Microsoft UK, and not the US-based operation.
Open your eyes next time, or click on the link. Then comment.
The last people that should be given media-access-control over a public access internet point are Microsoft.
If you'd open your mind to the fact other countries & environments exist outside of the USA, you might learn that here in the UK we have something called
day-tah proh-te-ct-shon
This stops evil companies like Microsoft flogging your personal details, and is one of the main differentiators between the EU and the USA.
When I was in England this past June, British telecom had replaced about 5% of their phone booths with free internet stations. It was anice little touchscreen with a very hardcore metal keyboard and trackball.
.
BT has now installed these all over Victoria in London, and if anyone is passing through Victoria station they should have a look.
It's an excellent design, and it also allows you to send free SMS messages to mobile phones.
I had a quick play, and everything is filtered through WebSense proxy software, but the list of blocked sites was not too restrictive.
I think these are an excellent example of how to encurage non-technical people onto the Internet, and let them play
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
When visting the page for the story:
/m/inc/std.inc, line 150
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a01a8'
Object required: 'Std__olutSection'
The irony eh?
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
How awful! This further promotes the evil monopoly of Microsoft. Someone should develop an Open Source park bench. And so on.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Glad to see that MS is trying to retain the loyalties of the great mass of newly-unemployed IT workers who no doubt will soon be living on these in addition to accessing the net from them. It'll be like having my DSL back!
Interesting to see Microsoft's approach here -- a park bench on the internet is a good idea.
:)
Isn't it vice versa - the internet on a park bench? I believe so
Do we really need to have this much connectivity? Soon we're going to have 12 step programs for internet junkies and people getting mugged for their bandwidth.
Hi, my name is smith@parkbench.com and I'm an internet junkie. I've been broadband free for 3 weeks.
Hello smith@parkbench.com.
--
Entropy ain't just a good idea. It's the law.
Sounds like a great application for IP over avian carriers to me!
But how come no one makes the seat that everyone loves internet accessible? I'd be on the toilet and on the internet a whole lot more then on a bench.
... Microsoft can finally (literally) kiss my ass.