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AtheOS 0.3.5 Released
JigSaw writes "AtheOS 0.3.5 has just been released. Lots of changes to the core of the OS, but the most important upgrade is the port of the Konqueror web browser (the author had to wrap around X/KDE/QT calls in order to port it). AtheOS is a modern OS, written from scratch using OOP and C++, it features a 64-bit journaled/attributed filesystem and (surprise) it doesn't use X, but rather its native GUI system (screenshots). Changelog is here, while you can download it here (only around 23 MB for the basic installation). There is already a number of posix software ports and third party native software available."
AtheOS FAQ
Q: How do I install AtheOS in a VMWare virtual machine? AtheOS boot from
the boot floppies but not from the HD after installed.
A: VMWare put some restrictions on the upper end of the address-space
that cause some problems for AtheOS. To make AtheOS boot you must
tell the kernel to don't use the last few megabytes of the 4GB
address-space by adding "uspace_end=0xf7ffffff" to the GRUB kernel-line
in "boot/grub/menu.lst". This is already added to the boot-menu
on the boot-floppies but not on the default boot-menu included in
the base installation.
...who thinks AtheOS sounds like the main competitor to Jesux?
--xxk
If you want the changelog go to: http://www.atheos.cx/download/0.3.5/base/changes.t xt
MIT's network is Athena, IIRC.
>The 867 MHz single chip G4 leaves the 1.7 P4 >breathing for air
In your dreams, where the only application running is Adobe Photoshop optimized for Altivec.
The P4 *smokes* the G4 in integer and floating point according to spec.
(disclaimer - I didn't get these #s direct from spec.org)
g4@733
SPECint95 - 32.1
SPECfp95 - 23.9
p4@1400
SPECint95 - 54.4
SPECfp95 - 53.5
extrapolating:
g4@867
int - 38.0
fp - 28.3
p4@1700
int - 66.1
fp - 64.9
-Kevin
There's an infamous troll around here to link to a disgusting picture at goatse.cx, or mirrors of it, which is probably why the original poster mentioned it. Apparently it is a troll whose posters think it is funny the millionth time it is posted when it was never funny in the first place.
/. effect, it appeared
to be safe and free from goatse pictures.
For the approximately 10 seconds I had access to the AtheOS site before the
-Kevin
FYI, When I did a traceroute to the site, the last
nodes with DNS entries were in Norway.
-Kevin
Its not everything the HURD wanted to be.
Check the HURD's architecture and you will know why.
The HURD has really interesting goals in mind... Multi-server OS is the key design keeping your comment from being correct.
I don't think AtheOS is multiserver.
Well thank god (no pun intended) this OS isn't call goatse.
The Lord's wrath will come upon you.
That's just a slight variation on the theme of him pissing on me.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
127.0.0.1 goatse.cx
Hmm... I should probably block the ip at my firewall too, in case this guy stumbles upon a clue.
QNX is hardly 'under-underground' its roots are in the embedded systems market, it is a commercial product and has been around for a while.
> AtheOS is a modern OS, written from scratch using OOP and C++
Do we now judge the merits of an OS based on how it was implemented? Rather than, say, what it does and how reliably it does it?
> it doesn't use X, but rather its native GUI system
Is its "native GUI" part of the OS?
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
Trying out the Hurd
So, are you talking about the other HURD or the other x86 architecture?
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
Anonymous ftp area ftp://atheos.sourceforge.net/pub/atheos/ /pyder.....
_
/
\_\ sig under construction
Seems to me the people at BeOS didn't think so.
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
Any ideas if AtheOS will run under VMware so I can try it out?
The supported hardware says that only the Matrox cards and VESA 2.0 cards are supported.
Any hints?
yes, .cx really is for christmas island, a small island north of austrilia that i think is an indepent countr controlled by australia, i dont quite understand it. for more info see http://www.nic.cx
-- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
The only thing that's up there is a mailinglist, no files, no mirrored webpage, etc...
Sorry I clicked on the wrong post to reply. Disregard the above.
it's a small island off the west coast of Australia, it's administered by the Australian government iirc.
life is a canvas/and the paint is hope and promise/the world is ours/no one can ever take it from us.
If the hardware companies would just either a) release open drivers, or b) release product datasheets, then we could just do the work of porting ourselves...
Goddamn, it stands for Athena OS.. Athena like in the greek goddess, not much atheism about that.. (mutter: damn, english speaking people..)
Oh wait, that's LinuxOne I'm thinking of.. Sorry.
--
PaxTech
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
As a matter of fact, I do use Mandrake Linux as the fact that "having fun" has meant a much higher productivity level among myself and my coworkers. Having a commmand line interface and saying that using Mandrake as "playing" neither impresses anyone nor gives the illusion of you having big balls. In fact, it makes you sound like an idiot.
Actually, I completely disagree with you. Apple created a GUI as an integral part of the OS for a good reason. Without Apple doing this, we would still have DOS and have to type WIN to start Windows. I am not sure why people are obsessed with having to create more work for themselves by typing anything to start their GUI, when the main 2 reasons people purchase a computer/OS is for its ease of use and its applications. Apple wasn't the only one to do this...anybody remember OS/2 or BeOS? Nobody wants to see a command line at all if they can help it. Why do you think 99.9% of Linux distributions today load a FB picture at startup, use something graphical to hide the boot sequence, and then autostart X into either KDM or GDM? Because people are visual creatures by design. When I can start my computer, have it completely GUI from boot to shutdown I have a more "complete implementation" feel to my computer than when I have to mess with anything that looks like a command line. When I can change a directory by clicking on a folder icon, dragging my favorites 100 MP3's to my CD-ROM drive, let go of the mouse button, and have it all taken care of I not only save time, I feel like I am actually interacting with my computer, I actually feel like I "moved" it, and once I let go of the button, the MP3's burn the the CD, I hit the eject button, click on "Shutdown" and everything is fine. Would you like to tell me how to do that with a command line without it being a major pain in the ass? Nobody I know wants to use Linux, specifically because the command line gets old really, really, fast. Humans are visual creatures. When a person feels like they are looking at something "real" and they intereact with it in a "real" way, then they are visually and mentally satisfied that something was done...visually done. People don't like to know a "command line" exists at all. Point-->Click...Point-->Drag-->Drop. Simple and effective.
If we can make Linux *completely* GUI without any command line at all, people..."the masses"...with begin to accept it. You can't "brute force" Linux onto people. They will simply begin to hate it and just go back to what is comfortable. I bought my Mom a laptop specifically because she wants to keep in touch with me and save on long distance after I moved. I didn't and will never introduce her to Linux. All she wants to do is send me email and write a letter or two. In Windows, all she has to do is click on Outlook...Windows autodials her ISP, brings up the email client, and when she is done sending me an email, it hangs up for her. That also goes for when she just gets on the internet in general. If she wants to buy some little Create-a-Card program or something, there is no stupid rpm -Uvh foo or anything of that nature. She pops in the CD, it Autoplays for her, and in 10-15 minutes she is happily sending out Christmas cards on her new computer. No shell scripts, no command line, no bullshit whatsoever. And that is just how I like her to be...Happy. And that is how everyone would like to be, including myself. I also know how much I enjoyed BeOs and OS/2 and Macintosh. And in all but the *OLD* MacOs not including MacOS X, you could still get to a command line if you really *needed* to...but with a productive, effective, visual, and elegant GUI, a command line is completely pointless. Without people understanding that *needing* to make things overly *non-visual* such as 90% of Linux, then people are just not going to use it as a Desktop OS.
A GTK+ port would not be out of place; neither would a full Qt port.
Possible, but no one is yet interested in doing it. Kurt spent his time porting khtml away from Qt, rather than port Qt for khtml.
If it has POSIX emulation (which ISTR it does nto yet)
AtheOS is POSIX.1 compliant. POSIX isn't an emulation layer by the way, it's a defined API for UNIX systems.
it can run GNOME and KDE, which is the sine qua non of a modern OS, unfortunately.
While we're at it, we could replace libatheos with X. Then we'll dump the kernel and replace it with Linux. AFS, well we may as well just use ResierFS.
Why should AtheOS have to use KDE or Gnome? I sense much trolling in you. Either that, or you are seriously misguided.
Honestly, AtheOS has the potential to beat out KDE and Gnome. libatheos is (IMHO) a better toolkit than Qt, certainly better than anything GTK+ has to offer. It's being written almost entirely by one guy, so everything is consistent, and integrates nicely.
I'm hoping to be able to replace my current KDE2 setup with AtheOS for my every day web/email/IRC/coding before the year is out. Give AtheOS 12 months, and lets see.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Although I do find the fact that there are "scrollbars" and "text edit" things in the interface (see the change log) indicates that he has made the GUI interface way too high level.
What you're looking at are basic widgets that any GUI provides, including any and every toolkit for X. How do you think those scrollbars and menus get on your applications? They're high level, yes, but they need to be.
I would much rather see an interface that reliably and quickly does "draw a rectangle here" and "format this UTF-8 text here" would be more powerful, as it would allow variation in the GUI design.
Many of the low level constructs are available in libatheos, although the lower level 2D graphics primitives are weak to non-existent. That doesn't mean you can't create a bitmap and draw to it yourself, or write a library to do that for you.
Why would you want to allow "variation in the GUI design" anyway? It sounds as though you want to do exactly what X has done, and provide only the low level stuff and then end up with seven diferent toolkits on top. GUI diversity on the same platform is not a good thing, it confuses users and adds redunduncy. If Kurt wanted to do it this way, he could just be running Linux with X and be done with it. The end result would be the same.
Sorry if this seems like a flame, it is in part I guess. I would seriiously suggest you get hold of AtheOS and try out libatheos though, its a nice little system.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
We atheists have our own OS now? Cool!
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
Be Inc is in big trouble. It abandoned BeOS and jumped on the nearest buzzword hyped bandwagon to produce the BeIA.
The BeIA has come out to mostly negative reviews, "Too slow", "Overpriced", "Too Big" and at $500 US is unlikely to beat the low end PC market.
Be Inc itself has hired a bank to sell the company and is due to be delisted from the NASDAQ on the 20th August unless it can pull its share price above a dollar.
After all this, BeOS stands a whelks chance in a supernova of ever being updated.
Be Inc jumped ship first, but didn't tell anyone, the developers have been slowly catching on, the users somewhat later and all thats left are a hard core of fanatics.
"BeOS isn't dead until they pry it off my cold dead harddrive"
---
---
Silence is consent.
I'm 100% sure.
I memorized the entire text of Phillipians once. (a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.)
It's only 4 chapters. Correct spelling is Philippians -- but hey, this is slashdot.
--
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
It is not a micro-kernel. It is a modularized, multithreaded, monolithic kernel. Just like linux.
But it is of Atheos 3.2 which is quite out of date. Once the slashdot effect goes away, I am going to try and make a vmware package for 3.5. It should be noted that there is no PCNET driver. so networking in vmware doesnt work (yet).
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
Is it just one guy who did all of this, from the kernel up? The GUI? The journalled file system? The graphics? The porting of Konquerer? How come he's not everyone's hero? He seems like a uber-genius-hacker to me. Can anyone else even touch him?
I wish I could help out with the remaining programming. In any case, I want to say that I think he's got the right idea in dumping X, and I think that someone should be looking seriously at some sort of a migration path from Linux + X to this.
Hardware support will come when the community is behind this. I think we should be.
It would really be a coup if KDE ran on AtheOS, because we'd quickly notice just how much X is holding back Free software. It would also fix the currend dearh of applications that AtheOS suffers from and make it much easier to get real work done on AtheOS. This would bring more developers, which at this stage are necessary if AtheOS is to go further.
Well the fact is that the server has never crashed due to the slashdot effect. It is always bogged down by the heavy load though and being hooked to the net through a 2Mb link there is no way it can handle the incredible load created by such a slashdot article.
The reason it lost it's uptime today was that I took it down to add another 128MB of memory to be able to increase the maximum number of simulatnous HTTP connections allowed (it is mentioned on the news-page but as you probably have noticed having anything on the atheos.cx right now doesn't mean that it is accessible to everybody :)
PS: This is my first /. posting with the AtheOS web-browser so please be kind with
me if it end's up all screwed :)
--- Kurt Skauen
Actually, the creator told me that AtheOS was supposed to be "Athena", but that was apparently taken.
I am 90% sure.
Freedom of speech won't feed my children
...
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
Nice OS but there is one issue, driver support. It's bad enough getting hardware companies to support Linux!
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a brutal anal raping at airport security
>I, for one, don't feel like spending $1500-2000 for the same bang-per-buck I already have in my Athlon-based PC for under $500 just to use MacOS.
you obviously never did
few who did ever came back, and that's for a reason
That is why you are supposed to Preview before you Submit. There are warnings, you know.
Maybe now that there is an OS for atheists, someone will really make Jesux (Jesus linux).
... and Alahux... and Satanux... and... you get the point...
The drivers list can be found at http://other-space.com/atheos/list_software.php?ca tegory=1
This is true. A little (slightly OT) note for whoever's interested: one of the issues in the breakup between Microsoft and IBM back in the days of OS-2 (apart from the fact that M$ wanted to screw IBM) was that the IBM engineers objected to the MS design of implementing UI features in the kernel(s). Stability is a lot better now in Win2K, but if some of you who've used nt ever traced the source of some of your blue screens, you might have noticed that a lot of them were caused by errors in the kernel graphics subsystem.
That may be (I haven't seen these benchmarks, though; could you post a link?), but I think the main point here is that in the Mac world, you're stuck with a single vendor for hardware and for software. Even if it does compare very favorably in performance, there are huge advantages to having an open hardware platform with inexpensive commodity hardware, and having a large choice of OSes to run on it. The Mac gives you none of that. You're still stuck with proprietary hardware and a proprietary OS.
What happens when your CD drive craps out? You have to send in your machine for service? Sorry, in a production environment that isn't acceptable. With a PC, you can just replace it with a $30 unit and get back to work. What if the power supply dies? Same thing. And for open-source fans, what if you want to customize your OS? Again, it's just not very possible with a proprietary OS, whereas one of the many open-source OSes let you do that all you want.
When in doubt about a TLD, try http://nic.tld and see what comes up ;)
It is in fact Christmas Island: http://www.nic.cx/
- Jman
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
Is there a precooked VMware .DSK for the truly lazy (e.g. me)? The one mentioned commonly is no (etherquest or somesuch) is 404.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
Long term, confusing your operating system with the meaning of life, is, well, unfortunate.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Any mirrors of the screen shots?
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
I am looking for Java support on BeOS or somthing similar.
There's nothing there but the default page... no files, news, shots... nothing.
I hope your not the same group of people who continually flame slashdot and Amiga inc. for Amiga OS news.
Or worse: what could happen to the worm... :-)
karma capped
a) Is the AtheOS web site down? I'm not able to browse their site.
b) Does anybody know about any other similar 'new-age' OSes in development?
And by the way, 'atheos' IS the exact word for 'atheist' in Greek.
There is no such thing as 'world peace'.
D - M - C - A
If god had intended you to be naked, you would have been born that way.
Last month it got PPP support? That's hilarious! :)
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
But it'll take AtheOS a long time until it reaches the point where BeOS is now: AtheOS still lacks audio support, lots of drivers, apps, video support, dial-up networking... Of the things I do every day in BeOS, I can't do a single thing in AtheOS yet.
--
I noticed it but didn't think anything of it until your comment. What exactly does the '.cx' stand for? Is it some country out there? Or something like .ws stading for website?
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
What about Mac OS-X? I find it as a great tool for learning of various UNIX concepts, mainly root stuff since it's the only machine I have such access to :)
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Oh trust me, I know abot goatse.cx and other, lets call them "interesting," sites that the -1 people link to often. I was asking about the .cs and what country it was for. An AC says some southern pacific isle called Christman Island. I don't know the truth in that, but I'll take it as such until told otherwise.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
CRAP! That (obviously) should've been .cx. Maybe this is why high school english was a problem for me. Or maybe it's a signal for me to go to bed (it's 9:30pm locally), I gotta work tomorrow.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Wow -- I didn't realize Slashdot was home to the change log. I would try to find the actual log from the website, except the site close to being slashdotted.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
That OS is already here. It is call Mac OS X.
It's amazing to me how well this is being received, while slashdotter's lambasted the announcement of Amiga OS 4.0.
www.atheos.com._ _____
________________________________
______________________________________
Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I...
The name really is nothing to do with Atheism, or God, or anything else.
Except that Athena is the Greek god of war and wisdom.
Yes, but do Intel clock speeds really reflect the number of CISC operations performed per second? Isn't it only one micro-op that comes out of the pipeline every cycle?
Then remote terminals would eat up as much bandwidth as stupid X11. The only people who use primitives to draw controls today are probably widget-writers.
Isn't XML a bit too verbose? At least X worked ten years ago and it still works now. Its network transparency has always been quite nice, too. The XML method would be fine as long as it is concise and network transparent. Concise is the key word here, because even X can saturate a network (even a modern one).
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
There's a download-mirror at http://sourceforge.net/projects/atheos/
Don't donwload from www.atheos.cx -- Kurt's machine can't handle the load.
It only works on Mac hardware though. Macintosh is good, and should be what we are using, not the PC, but it isn't open.
The server is still running, but the bandwidth is choked.
For the fifth time, Mac OS X only runs on Macintosh hardware. It's not going to help the people who are enslaved by ms windows.
With current PC being so powerful, what is the point of overloading your server with work that can easily be done on the client side ?
Sure IT people would be happy having only on or two servers to upgrade instead of 100 workstations but reality is that powerful PCs are here and until that changes we better keep using that power.
OK, I apologize for the way I phrased some of that. I wasn't intending 'play' as any sort of insult, I wouldn't even try to argue that Mandrake isn't better than Slack (or insert-random-distro-here) at certain things, and I don't think I'm l33t because I know what 'ls' does. My point was that making Linux a fully GUI-oriented OS is neither desirable for a lot of people nor necessarily a very good idea.
I do think AtheOS is a nifty system, though.
Wes
>>When I can start my computer, have it completely GUI from boot to shutdown
>> I have a more "complete implementation" feel to my computer than when I
>> have to mess with anything that looks like a command line.
Funny, when I use a system that runs completely under a GUI from startup to shutdown, I always get the vague feeling that it's doing things I can't see and might not necessarily approve of. Ever seen a fully idle windows box start spinning the hard drive? Do *you* know what it's up to?
>> When I can change a directory by clicking on a folder icon, dragging my
>> favorites [...]I feel like I am actually interacting with my computer
Well, that's wonderful if you enjoy it, but some of us get that same feeling from a command line. I can do an ls (or a dir) and find out that files are actually where I intended to put them. It's no less 'visual' than your pretty icons and such, and just as useful(and in certain ways, MORE useful.)
There *are* distros out there that will let people use Linux without ever knowing there is such a thing as a command line if they don't want to learn about it, but you'll necessarily sacrifice a few things to do so (notably, a large portion of CPU cycles and disk space.) If that's something you want, go play with Mandrake, and be happy.
Wes
(I like Slackware.)
The Lord's wrath will come upon you.
Of course, the HURD still lives on as long as someone has interest in it. That's how Free Software works. But there's no GNU vs. Linux or RMS vs. Linus competition going on. For the foreseeable future HURD is an experimental system, of interest mostly to OS developers. At one point Linux was in a similar position. Many OSes have never gone past that. So it goes.
GTK+ lets you define a UI using libxml. Perhaps that's a start?
Putting the toolkit into the system and you are frozen into a design that may seem modern right now, but may seem massively outdated and obsolete just a few years from now. The best example is why we are even able to use X now when it was designed in 1983? If X had had the toolkit as part of it it would have an Athena-style toolkit, and MicroSoft could have quite rightly laughed us off the planet.
The overhead of X is due to stupid graphics primitives, not the fact that graphics primitives are used. There is no reason a round trip is needed to select a color or a font. Unfortunately the interface to widgets can easily become much more complex than the graphics needed to draw them, obvious examples are X window managers.
And I certainly do want a dozen different toolkits on top! GUI diversity is a good thing, it might mean, dare I say it, "innovation" could happen!
Also everybody says users are "confused by different toolkits". I think this is a myth, I have worked with a lot of users and have seen no sign of this. People recognize buttons and scrollbars and menus with an enormous variety of appearances, and put up with keys not doing any thing with remarkable ease. Otherwise computer game designers could never get away with the designs they do.
It is true that huge differences cause problems, for instance Athena scrollbars were a stupid design. But these are solved quickly by competition between the toolkits. For example all the Unix toolkits quickly migrated to a Windows-style of key bindings, this would have been impossible if Unix had an enforced toolkit.
The "confused user" is a figment of the imagination of the people who are trying to force these toolkits down our throats. These people should get out of their theoretical ivory towers and examine exactly what the real programmers and users use and expect from their computers.
I do want to check out AtheOS, though. I suspect the necessary lower levels are there, because implementing a toolkit like they describe is impossible without them.
It does sound like AtheOS, although it implements the GUI as part of the system, implementes it as another task in user space using the microkernel=like communication mechanism. This sounds like an ok approach.
Although I do find the fact that there are "scrollbars" and "text edit" things in the interface (see the change log) indicates that he has made the GUI interface way too high level. I would much rather see an interface that reliably and quickly does "draw a rectangle here" and "format this UTF-8 text here" would be more powerful, as it would allow variation in the GUI design.
I still need to study the design and try it out to really get an opinion, though.
I am disappointed by the lack of X,
Heh. I think that's the coolest thing about AtheOS:
they're doing something NEW, not just cloning UNIX.
C-X C-S
> Think about it: Linux would no longer have to try to be both a server OS and a desktop OS (and an embedded OS too, now, it would seem), but could concentrate on being the best server OS out there.
Why does Linux need to concetrate on an application? An operating system is just that: an operating system. It needs to provide services and referee access to resources. It shouldn't care what is layered on top of it.
I haven't got anything against the Mac, but with the Mac Apple introduced an evil paradigm: the UI is part of the OS. Microsoft picked up on that paradigm and actively worked hard to weed out the underlying OS (or at least to hide it). That's a move in the wrong direction.
The reason Linux is doing well everywhere from mainframes to superclusters to servers to desktops to embedded devices, is that it doesn't try to be anything other than an operating system. It provides some basic services. Other people decide what to do with those services.
Lots of other OSes have done the same in the past. Let's don't rush to give up the good ideas.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
From what little research I've done, AtheOS looks to be the most promising up-and-comer thus far (the *BSDs have been around, IIRC, longer than Linux, and thus don't qualify). It has some very nice features. A GTK+ port would not be out of place; neither would a full Qt port. If it has POSIX emulation (which ISTR it does nto yet) and can run those two toolkits, it can run GNOME and KDE, which is the sine qua non of a modern OS, unfortunately.
It's good to see coverage like this. Perhaps this will help attract developers.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/atheos/
1. It really isnt a UNIX like OS. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I like UNIX.
>>>>>>>
Neither is Linux. Of course, they're both POSIX complient.
2. No text console.
>>>>>>>>>>
Didn't you see the terminal in the screenshot?
3. Everything in the kernel, particularly video drivers and GUI. That's a bad design. PC video hardware is too crappy to stake your OSes reliability on them or the video drivers.
>>>>>>>>>>
Did you bother to read the documentation?!! The thing is a hybrid-type kernel, and has an app_server that does the GUI bit. If the low level architecture is anything like BeOS's (it doesn't say exactly) then it should run the bulk of the video driver in the context of the app_server, and then use a kernel driver to bang interrupts and registers and whatnot.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
No, "illiterate" means not being able to spell "multifaceted."
PS> No offense, of course.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
True, but these things will fall into place. I have a serious doubt that they won't for BeOS. I would like nothing more than to slap BeOS back on my drive and then see if the Windows CD melts quickly, or slowly. But I don't see that happening too soon.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Archaic != bad. 90% of human DNA is more than a billion years old. If it works it works.
PS> Don't think that I am defending X in any way. For a desktop user, almost every GUI system out there is better than X. For a network user, QNX Photon is quite a leg up on X. The only thing that X has is support, and that can be said of Windows as well...
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
AtheOS seems to have a lot of potential. The code looks nice and clean, but drivers are iffy. Even basic things like the IDE driver is fairly immature, and vid card support is almost non-existant. So if you have some development time, instead of coding another abstraction on top of X, please contribute to this worthy project.
PS> Why do windowing system designers never use the X11 driver API as their standard, so drivers can be ported easily? It's not *that* bad!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
it works very well under vmware, even at high resolution :)
Think about it: Linux would no longer have to try to be both a server OS and a desktop OS (and an embedded OS too, now, it would seem), but could concentrate on being the best server OS out there. AtheOS, meanwhile, would become the best client. Where it makes sense, you share the source. (Heck, we've already got Konquerer running on AtheOS; if that's doable, then moving other stuff shouldn't be hard at all.) But we'd suddenly move from having just a single product that competes pretty well with Windows 2000 Server and kind of well with Windows 2000 Professional, and end up with two products: one which clobbers the Server (Linux), one which clobbers the Professional (AtheOS).
Maybe this isn't necessary just yet. I'm almost certain that, eventually, Linux can become just as easy, possibly easier, than Windows (though what sacrifices in power may be necessary to finally truly achieve that goal I don't know). But I still think this is something we should really look at.
i heard that cx stands for christmas island. what that is i have no idea though...
There is a guy working on the ide driver with the end goal being cd-rom support. NE2000 and RTL139 network cards work out of the box, and there is a 3com driver available. Nvidia, Matrox, and 3dfx cards either have drivers, or are very close to having drivers. Almost all recent video cards will work with the vesa 2.0 mode driver. Kurt is doing a great job with the core os, and he has left the driver development to the people who want it most. In my experience he has been very responsive to any requests for help in coding.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
I'll bet chmod won't accept read+write permissions for owner, group and everyone else in decimal mode:
chmod 666 *
The Evil Files contain the Mark of the Beast!
J
...panic for a microsecond when you saw the ".cx" domain?
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Wrong... Computers are too hard for the average user to understand. Windows included (remember Linus's comment about no one understanding NT? I think that you mean that it is too hard for the average user to use.
I disagree here too. My parents, both in their fifties, use Red Hat Linux (and are even asking me to migrate their other Windows system to Linux ;). They use their system more and ask me for help less than when they were using Windows for most of their work. Oh, and they are pretty computer illiterite as well...
OTOH, I have met sub-average users who could not use it. One comes to mind. This is a fellow who really liked Windows 3.11 because after 8 hears, he was able to do things like save a file (something he struggled with on Windows 95 and Linux). Bear in mind, this person bought a mousepad for his trackball... But this sort of thing aside, most people can use it quiclky and easily, as long as someone else handles the really technical stuff...
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
For those without religious studies, Phillipians is unlikely to be a book in the bible ;)
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
can go to safeweb.com and use their cached version of the site.
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
That is the real bummer.
I might try it, but it has very low chance of recognizing my hardware, so I can't event try.
--
Two witches watched two watches.
--
Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
You might spend a lot of money there, but did you know that Apple's latest campaign is that there is more to a processor than MHz? Benchmarks using 500MHz and better G4's are similar to 1 GHz Intel chips. And those benchmarks are in common uses, not just Photoshop and such. The 867 MHz single chip G4 leaves the 1.7 P4 breathing for air, while the 800MHz dual chip smokes it. You pay a lot, but you get something useful in return for that investment: results.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
You can install Linux on a Power Mac. Other OS's have been ported too.
And for open-source fans, what if you want to customize your OS?
With OS-X being FreeBSD based, the source for it is included. I don't know of anyone actually making changes to this and having it work, but I suspect it's possible to make some changes to the non-proprietary portions of the OS.
As for hardware, who says a company cant stock up on spares? You can buy hardware components from Apple. Power supplies, CD ROM/RWs, video, audio, etc. You can buy that stuff from them just as easily as any other vendor or architecture.
I do agree that being tied to Apple hardware sucks, but I find the OS-X I use at work very useful. My co-workers also do. We have 3 Macs with OS-X on them in our lab. And one guy uses Mac hardware with Linux OS.
Like I said earlier, you pay a lot, but you get results. With some x86 hardware, the line "You get what you pay for" often applies. You don't see many Mac people saying that.
For software, many companies (MS included) are porting softare apps over to OS-X. Just about any GNU tool will also port, thanks to a FreeBSD base. Someone mentioned problems for guis. QT is developing a library for OS-X that will allow porting of apps written for other platforms over to OS-X. Bottom line is that there is plenty of software available for OS-X.
As for those benchmarks, see the keynotes from the MacWorld Expo from a few weeks ago. MacWorld Expo should have them.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
it's always fun to read the latest articles on slashdot, so I can see the pages that I will actually be able to load 6-24 hours from now ;)
If you're reading this, please update to SourceForge! you're .CX server is utterly bogged by the slashdot effect. I would love to try it out, I have a box just rarin' to go, but we'll never get at it while this is on the front page of slashdot, unless you post something like an ISO somewhere fat.
At least it's better than Be's "close it up and then abandon it" approach to replacing X.
I think you're confusing that with Be's "we're trying to make some money and survive, so kiss our ass" approach.
But I could be wrong.
"And like that
Sever timed out while trying to access www.atheos.cx.
Sorry, AtheOS, we just zeroed your uptime counter.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
this agnostic OS, has not accepted jesux as his savior OS!
Several reasons:
1) AtheOS is being actively developed, BeOS is not.
2) AtheOS is opens source (see (1) for results).
3) AtheOS has better POSIX complience.
4) AtheOS has better development tools (more modern GCC).
Of course, BeOS is still technalogically more mature, but given 1-4, and Be's lack of lifesigns it won't be for long.
No, the irony of this post is not lost on me.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Mirrored screenshot of the Konqueror port to AtheOS
What about Mac OS-X?
What about it? Apple has released their BSD core OS, but the GUI, which most users consider the computer, is still strictly proprietary. How many times do we have to trot this old dog out before we realize it's the same old dog that's been given a shearing and a flea-dip?
I, for one, don't feel like spending $1500-2000 for the same bang-per-buck I already have in my Athlon-based PC for under $500 just to use MacOS.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
AtheOS is not a microkernel. It's a strange hybrid design in which most drivers live inside a monolithic kernel but drivers not needing to service interrupts (and maybe other kernel-only features I'm not aware of) can work in userland. Also, the kernel is not programmed in object oriented C++, like the rest of the system - it's 100% C.
AtheOS and HURD also had very different goals. HURD was designed to be a scalable, clusterable microkernel-based OS with lots of advanced features, while AtheOS was designed to be something that works, here and now. Albeit heavily inspired by BeOS's "multimedia OS" idea.
I do admire Kurt for getting so much done, almost all on his own, but I wonder if AtheOS is ambitious enough to survive in the future, or whether adding new features will be like flogging a dead horse.
The best part about AtheOS is that it is everything that the HURD tried to be but hasn't become yet. AtheOS is an object-oriented microkernel OS that is already up and running - something that the HURD should have been about six years ago. RMS is stuck playing catch-up to the newcomer now, and it's anyone's guess as to whether he bows out of the race or starts making good on the HURD's promises. Only time will tell.
-vort3x
(posting anonymously to preserve my precious karma)
Surely it's time for HURD to stop being vapourware and actually get something working.
The HURD is certainly far from "finished" but it is by no means vaporware. Nowadays development is happened under the Debian HURD project. It does boot, it has networking, it's got X11, it's got install disks (Linux based at this time). The last month has seen the first PPP support.
At present there are over 1000 hurd-compiled packages - 25% of the Debian archive. (a full list of packages with statuses here (big page))
For more information, check the afore mentioned Debian HURD pages, Kernel Cousin Debian Hurd (mailing list summaries) and the HURD Documentation Project.
New version. There has been a long time since the last release of AtheOS but finally V0.3.5 is ready for release. There is several reasons for the long delay like the fact that I have been rather busy at work lately and that we have had a great summer here in Oslo so AtheOS have not always been at the top of my priority list. Also quite a lot of work have gone into this release and quite a lot of new features and improvements have been made.
Many of the changes are additions and modifications to the various API's and toolkits but also a few user-visible aspects are improved in this release. Many bugs are fixed in the text editor and list-view widgets. The scrollbar have got a totally new look and a few new features like "paging" (jump one page when clicking beside the knob) and small arrow buttons that can be used to move the know.
Some crash-bugs have been fixed and the general robustness of the application server has been improved. Also several kernel crash-bugs have been fixed so the general stability of AtheOS have improved quite a bit. The uptime on my heavily stressed developer machine is 34 days when I write this (the time since the last HW upgrade).
This version also have two new keymaps (German and Sweedish) and support for a wide range of nVidia graphics adaptors.
The main focus for V0.3.5 however has been on the KHTML based web browser. I have ported the HTML parser/renderer used in the Konqueror web browser (KHTML) to AtheOS. KHTML is a very capabel HTML parser and renderer that support both CSS and javascript and so does the AtheOS web browser. Finally a high-quality web browser for AtheOS! The browser is part of the 0.3.5 base install and the 0.3.4->0.3.5 upgrade archive. Take a look at the changes list for a more detailed list of changes since V0.3.4.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.