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CVS Infrastructure

Posted by michael on from the diff-on-steroids dept.

LiquidPC writes: "ONLamp.com has an article on FreeBSD's CVSup servers, which includes hints and guidelines on using CVSup. Also, advice from John Polstra, designer of CVSup."

173 comments

  1. Lots of common sense stuff from the article... by TrentSeigfried · · Score: 1

    The article largely boils down to common sense tips, so I'm not sure why this is newsworthy. Is it really newsworthy to know that if there is a mirror, consider moving at least part of your load to that mirror?

    Still, some good common sense information can be found, and the article is worth a read.

    --
    Trent Seigfried
    devolver at iastate dot edu
  2. cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by scrytch · · Score: 2

    cvsup makes it tolerable to have a cvs client, which concurrently does the recentness compare with the downloads itself -- no BIG...LONG...PAUSE for a cvs update to scan everything then download the changes.

    unfortunately it's still ultimately based on the highly excreble CVS, which still can't handle something as simple as a renamed file, to say nothing of the hell it puts you through for directories. If McVoy would stop playing silly license games with Bitkeeper so he can try to become the next Sourceforge (sorry, but you lost), then the world would probably beat a path to his door.

    In the meantime, are there any robust and free alternatives to cvs?

    --
    I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
    1. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by Adam+Wiggins · · Score: 2

      I've been using CVS for five years, and although it took me a while to learn its twists and turns, I now think that it is an absolutely excellent piece of software. I have been forced to use other major alternatives at various companies I've worked for (the most notable being Perforce and MS SourceSafe) and CVS is vastly superior to the others I have used. (I have not used Bitkeeper, so I can't compare it.)

      Granted, it is missing a few important features such as the ability to flags files as having no revision history (so that large binaries can be stored without killing the server on commits and updates) and the ability to rename files and directories. But those are relatively minor complaints compared to all that it does do well.

      The project I'm excited about is Subversion.

    2. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by dair · · Score: 2
      I have been forced to use other major alternatives at various companies I've worked for (the most notable being Perforce and MS SourceSafe) and CVS is vastly superior to the others I have used.
      What didn't you like about Perforce? I found it much more powerful than CVS.

      The best feature was atomic commits, so you could look through the changelog for the repository as a whole rather than having to do it for individual files. Being able to see "Fixed bug foo - affected foo1.c, foo2.c, foo3.c" and "Fixed bug bar - affected foo1.c, bar1.c, bar2.c" was much easier than with CVS (where you get individual change logs for foo1.c, foo2.c, foo3.c, bar1.c, and bar2.c and have to cross-reference yourself to find out what files a particular bug-fix touched).

      Perforce is quite expensive, but a two client license is free so it's worth checking out.
      The project I'm excited about is Subversion.
      Definitely looks like it has potential - it supports atomic commits as well.

      -dair
    3. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      Doesn't take much work to do that with CVS either. Where do you think all these 'project histories' keep coming from?

      As an example, we mail commits to a mailing list and store them in a linear log (as you suggest). CVS has the hooks, and writing a quick perl script to do the things you need really are quite simple. Umm.. if your using cvs the assumption is you can code anyway :)

      HINT: Look at the CVSROOT/loginfo file for that kind of thing. It even has the example you're looking for in it.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    4. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by mjg · · Score: 2

      Take a look at Aegis. It supports quite a few nice things CVS does not, such as atomic commits, and changes are handled as "change sets" - so a fix that touches multiple files can be applied and backed out in one step.

      It has been around for quite a while, and looks fairly mature. I haven't used it yet, but I'm reviewing it now for future use.

      http://www.pcug.org.au/~millerp/aegis/aegis.html

    5. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by stripes · · Score: 3, Interesting

      CVS has some big flaws, but it is quite nice. I haven't seen a source code control system that didn't have problems. Anyway I think you should look at subversion they are directly addressing CVSs big flaws. It looks like the authors know a lot about CVS, and like CVS, so whatever they build will probably not suck more then CVS...

      ...except they have a lot of dependence on Apache and the DAV module. So that part at least sucks differently then CVS, and maybe more. Hopefully subversion will get far enough along that I can find out for myself though.

      If McVoy would stop playing silly license games with Bitkeeper so he can try to become the next Sourceforge (sorry, but you lost), then the world would probably beat a path to his door.

      Bitkeeper does look cool. I don't think subversion can do the same sort of hierarchy of repositories that bitkeeper can. Anyway I don't think McVoy wants to be the next SourceForge (are they making money?), he want to be the next PerForce, CodeSafe, or whoever else has made a ton of money directly off version control software.

      In the meantime, are there any robust and free alternatives to cvs?

      No, unless by "robust" you really mean "alpha quality, not trusted to be self hosting yet". Try again in six months :-)

    6. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by Malcontent · · Score: 2

      Instead of asking other people "In the meantime, are there any robust and free alternatives to cvs?" why don't you take some time and help out the CVS or the subversion projects? I am sure they would be grateful for any contributions you may want to make. That's how open source works you know.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    7. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by scrytch · · Score: 2

      > That's how open source works you know.

      It never fails. Ask for advice, and at least one person tells me to do it my damn self. Clue check, this particular little advocacy tactic is really counterproductive. If you can't answer the damn question, keep your righteous cheerleading to yourself, ok?

      --
      I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
    8. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by Malcontent · · Score: 2

      Why is it that the world owes you great and free software. If you want to buy it then by all means write the check and get yourself sourcesafe or starteam or whatever. If you want it for free then get off your ass and do some work. If you can't code (well why are interested in source control anyways then?) then go write some documentation. All these projects could use a hand in some form or another.

      If you are willing to do neither then shut the fuck up we have better things to do then to listen you bitch and moan.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    9. Re:cvsup good, cvs baaaaaad by silentmusic · · Score: 1
      Why give the guy a hard time for doing a little research? If there were a "robust and free alternative to cvs" would you recommend that he ignore it?

      Personally I use CVS for ASIC development and am pretty happy with it. We use tools on Solaris, Linux, and Windows 2000 in the course of developing and verifying ASICs and it's nice to have a tool that works well on all of the above. You should see the mess that a lot of hardware engineers create...

      --

      Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise.

  3. load balancing by Simm0 · · Score: 1

    why not use some sort of load balancing to redistribute/redirect the load to other mirrors around US?

    1. Re:load balancing by WasterDave · · Score: 2

      why not use some sort of load balancing to redistribute/redirect the load to other mirrors around US?

      Because it would be killer for bandwidth. A better solution would be to put smart (ish) selection of mirrors into the client. Unforunately it's written in Modula-3, so you won't see me hacking around with it in the near future.

      Dave

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    2. Re:load balancing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DNS based load balancing shouldn't be a bandwidth killer. Once you do the DNS lookup, there would be no bandwidth difference. Couple that with country code based lookups (cvsup."CC-TLD".freeBSD.org). Even a simple round robin DNS would let you get new mirrors into the act quickly.

      You could even round robin cvsup.freebsd.org. As soon as the word got out that you might end up cvsupping from some continent half way around the world hanging off a single T1, people would switch to the CC based names.

  4. Auto upgrades by norculf · · Score: 1

    ROFL. Hourly updates via cron? Sounds quite a bit exessive to me. Weekly ought to be enough for anyone. Anyway, props to a good system for keeping systems up to date without doing any real work at all.

    1. Re:Auto upgrades by SirGeek · · Score: 1
      Well.. If its a portion of a system that you are working on with others then it IS very important to keep up to date.


      I am working on the Linux HA Procject by porting it to FreeBSD (and helping out with Solaris as well)... and I need to keep my system totally up to date.

      --
      UPS Sucks
    2. Re:Auto upgrades by matrix0040 · · Score: 1

      well depends on your application. if u r involved in development work then you might need the hourly update From the article """ Think about how often you need to update. Are you really going to build FreeBSD from source every hour? If not, why upgrade your source code every hour? Developers need rapid access to changes, of course, but many users don't have to update their source as frequently as they do """ that point is answered in the article !

    3. Re:Auto upgrades by whiteranger99x · · Score: 1
      Personally, unless you're in a mission-critical environment, i seriously doubt that you need to update the system EVERY hour on the hour.

      I have suspicions that some people dont even realize they have these said cron jobs still running

      --
      Join the TWIT army now!
    4. Re:Auto upgrades by norculf · · Score: 1

      If you are running a mission critical machine, it generally isn't wise to just install updates without waiting to see if there are any hidden problems in them. Of course, this doesn't apply to security fixes. Of course, that's why many things have multiple branches: stable, unstable, etc. The 'stable' code ought to be good enough to blindly install on mission critical boxes.

    5. Re:Auto upgrades by Detritus · · Score: 2
      The 'stable' code ought to be good enough to blindly install on mission critical boxes.

      That would be a very bad idea. Stable is a relative term. Subscribe to the freebsd-stable mailing list for a while and you will see what I mean. Stable is more stable that current, but it is still a moving target with occasional glitches and bugs. Stick to the release versions if you want to be conservative. Even then, you need to test a new release before using it for mission critical functions.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  5. Installing Modula3 just for CVSup sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CVSup is awfully hard to compile. You need the Modula3 compiler. Modula3 is a whole world of it's own, like another OS on top of the kernel, with its own compiler, system library (like libc), wrappers for X and even a web browser. It takes hours to compile all that on a modern PC (unless you have to fix stuff that doesn't compile). CVSup itself is easy to compile compared to all that Modula3 stuff, but be prepared to spend many hours before you can run CVSup if you cannot get a binary for your OS.

  6. That's why there's a precompiled cvsup-bin port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cd /usr/ports/net/cvsup-bin; make install

    1. Re:That's why there's a precompiled cvsup-bin port by honold · · Score: 0, Redundant

      /usr/ports/net/cvsup-bin: No such file or directory

      port is dead - it's package only now.

  7. The inmates are truly running the asylum now... by Silver222 · · Score: 1
    This is getting out of hand...might be time to go back to the old slashcode.

    --
    "It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks
  8. OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Yeah, but will it run on MacOSX...the undisputed king
    of the BSD's, and unquestionably the most popular
    version of UNIX, ever.

    I'm guessing it will, because MacOSX is a true UNIX, unlike Linux which is just a clone. OSX doesnt just adhere or emulate a standard...it IS the standard.

    Probably just untar it with our Aqua/Quartz-interfaced compression program (fully
    Apple-HIG compliant, with a GUI consistent with the rest of the desktop -- you'll never get that with "X Windows"), and click on make. Probably
    dont even need to open terminal.app -- it took Apple to eliminate the need for the command line, but it's there if you're still stuck in the past
    and cant function in a true GUI environment.

  9. OT: /. login problems... by MS · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    On alternate days I'm unable to login to slashdot: after I put my useir and pwd in the left box, the homepage is shown again, and in the location bar I see some GET-parameters, among them my pwd in clear(!). I'm unable to login, and I'm also unable to post... problems with handling cookies server-side?

    No wonder, most articles have unusual few comments. Is the new slashdot so buggy? Could I give you more information that helps you debug it?

    Oh, btw.: when will the search function be available again?

    Bye, Markus --

    1. Re:OT: /. login problems... by mgblst · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      sometimes i get this...

      Internal Server Error

      The server encountered an internal error or
      misconfiguration and was unable to complete
      your request.
      Please contact the server administrator,
      pater@slashdot.org and inform them of the time the error occurred,
      and anything you might have done that may have
      caused the error.
      More information about this error may be available
      in the server error log.

      Apache/1.3.20 Server at slashdot.org Port 80

  10. ex debian user can vouch for cvsup by .Natalie_Portman · · Score: 1

    I really enjoy the update process employed by FreeBSD. Superior to Debian's, which is the best in the linux community.

    Check it out. Also peruse the BSD lisence.

    The only reason I'd go back to Debian is convincing the pointy haired boss at work. FreeBSD is such a great OS, but no publicity. Wish I could get some servers up at work :-(, tough sell.

    cheers

    1. Re:ex debian user can vouch for cvsup by rsimmons · · Score: 1

      Pointy haired bosses can't tell the difference from one x86 unix to the next. Just make sure that everything that says FreeBSD in the login screen and motd is changed to say linux and you'll be fine. If you have approval for linux, just install FreeBSD or OpenBSD and don't tell him/her :)

  11. Re:*BSD is dying by .Natalie_Portman · · Score: 0

    I like BSD for technical reasons that probably go over your head. John Dyson wrote a state of the art vm. Linux's vm is a toy compared to his, on par with W2K's. Don't even get me started on the comparison between the TCP/IP stacks.

    cheers

  12. My complaint with CVSup by Adam+Wiggins · · Score: 1

    My complaint with CVSup is that there's no commandline client! Since I often do work on remote servers with X ports firewalled, this is a bit of a problem for me.

    Moreover, the GUI for the client is just *ugly*. It's this really bad pink colorscheme with Motif style widgets.

    The software works really well as far as doing updates quickly and in a minimum of network traffic, but it's completely beyond me why the default client is GUI only. I've also searched for commandline tools but have yet to find anything, anyone know if such a beast exists?

    1. Re:My complaint with CVSup by roguerez · · Score: 3, Informative

      cvsup -L 2 -g supfile

      does the trick on my system.

      The -g switch disables the GUI.

    2. Re:My complaint with CVSup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From 'man cvsup':

      -g Disables the use of the graphical user interface. This option is implied if the DISPLAY environment variable is not set.
      I've never used the GUI. I use cvsup -g -L 2 supfile.
    3. Re:My complaint with CVSup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean there _is_ a gui for cvsup ? :-)

      Never met anyone that used it...

      Cheers,

      --fred

    4. Re:My complaint with CVSup by shlong · · Score: 1

      My complaint with CVSup is that there's no commandline client! Since I often do work on remote servers with X ports firewalled, this is a bit of a problem for me.

      /me looks around for crack pipes
      You can either pass cvsup the -g flag as anothre poster noted, or just not have your DISPLAY environment variable set. This is not obscure knowledge... it is clearly documented in the man page and various tutorials.

      Moreover, the GUI for the client is just *ugly*. It's this really bad pink colorscheme with Motif style widgets.

      Umm... it uses TCL/TK IIRC.

      --
      Cat, the other, tastier white meat.
    5. Re:My complaint with CVSup by rsimmons · · Score: 1

      Or you just slap these lines in your make.conf:
      SUP_UPDATE= yes
      SUP= /usr/local/bin/cvsup
      SUPFLAGS= -g -L 2
      SUPHOST= cvsup11.freebsd.org
      SUPFILE= /root/stable-supfile
      PORTSSUPFILE= /root/ports-supfile
      DOCSUPFILE= /root/doc-supfile

      and type "make update" in the /usr/src directory.
      It will update everything in one fell swoop src, ports, and doc.

  13. Huh? by nibble_bit · · Score: 1

    "Polstra suggests looking at your watch to see where the second hand points at this particular moment, and use that number of minutes past the hour."

    Um, what's a "second hand"?

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the hand on some watches that moves round every second - when it completes a revolution, a minute has passed... so at 07:30:15, the hand will be a quarter round, and so on...

  14. CVS bad? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    CVS may have its flaws, but they are relatively minor compared to most of the competition. Sure, you can't rename/move things conveniently, which is irritating, but how often do you want to do that in reality? Not very, surely. Given the technical complications with moving a file (which might be branched, and so on) I can live with this.

    We switched to CVS some time ago at work, when we needed our MLOC project source base to be accessible to people working from home or clients' sites. So far, it's proved pretty successful. We're prepared to sacrifice a couple of little things in exchange for a robust mechanism for remote file access and a decent set of tools for integrating changes from many people.

    I should note that we also use WinCVS, which does make certain tasks easier. For example, you can do an atomic commit of multiple files from all over the source tree easily this way, much more easily than from the command line. Most of the awkward things about CVS are handled by using a decent GUI on top of it, in our experience.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:CVS bad? by Twylite · · Score: 2

      CVS has a number of flaws, yes, but I still use it in preferance to any other SCC I've tried. Unfortunately CVS development seems to be a bit stale, at least in terms of innovation. There are a couple of improvements that could really improve CVS a lot.

      Things We'd Like To See(TM):

      • Atomic commits.
        They can be useful, and lots of people go wild about them.
      • Hierarchical module naming / access.
        For those who have used Visual Sourcesafe you'll understand - you don't have to check out a project; you can "root" your checkout at any point in the tree. You "projects" (modules) can also be classified in a hierarchy, instead of being a list in the modules file.
      • Linking files between modules.
        Code reuse is important in many environments, and often a file needs to be reused across several projects, without being a completely separate library. Several SCCs can link files across projects, including VSS. While I'm sure you can fiddle the server (on Unix systems) with ln, there is no CVS-provided means (via the client) for linking files.
      • Renaming files.
        This happens more often than people care to admit. Its easy on the server, but you can't do it from the client without deleting and adding, which means you lose the history (which is what SCC is all about).
      • Multiple CVS servers.
        This is very pertinent to the use of CVSup (at least, it was last time I tried - haven't used distributed repositories in about a year). Although you can check out from a slave repository, you have to check in to the master. This means that you have to use -d on every checkin to specify the master. CVS needs a built-in mechanism to tell it where to check-out, and where to check-in.
      • Backup.
        One of my pet peeves, since I have to work in a commercial environment. I need easy, reliable backup. With CVS, I have to write a script to do this for me, and consider the locking of directories, etc. Since I'm one of the few people in the company with Unix knowledge, this puts CVS on the "dangerous because of maintenance" list, and makes it unpopular.
      • Built-in transfer security.
        CVS over SSH is nifty and solves the security problem, but its certainly not easy, especially to set up as a server, and especially if you are trying to run your server under NT! CVS needs a built-in secure transport layer (say, SSL) either as a default or as an option.

      Well, thats my 2c.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    2. Re:CVS bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an alternative to WinCVS you should try the Zeus SCC-CVS module. This is a free of charge implementation of the Microsoft SCC wrapper for CVS, allowing you to use CVS from any text editor/ide that supports the Microsoft SCC interface.

  15. CVS on Mac OS X? by PatJensen · · Score: 2
    Is anyone here using CVS with Project Builder.app on Mac OS X 10.0.4 and the release Development Tools? I am a new Carbon C developer and I'd like to set up a centralized repository for version management and file recovery.



    When I use Project Builder, the capability to use CVS is dimmed out. I checked in Terminal.app and cvs is installed and working correctly. (cvs -h works) How do I configure it to setup to connect to a CVS server and corresponding project so that I can commit my sources?



    Thanks for all your help. Have a good morning!



    Pat

    1. Re:CVS on Mac OS X? by stripes · · Score: 2
      How do I configure it to setup to connect to a CVS server and corresponding project so that I can commit my sources?

      Same way you normally would? Check out an existing project with "cvs -d user@server:/path/to/cvsroot get projectname"

      It works for me under OS X at least. Try reading the CVS FAQ for help. Or any CVS FAQ google turns up.

      Setting up your own repository is a bit harder. One way around that is to open source your project and have SourceForge set up a repository for you. You get free off site backups that way :-)

    2. Re:CVS on Mac OS X? by PatJensen · · Score: 2
      stripes, thanks for your reply. I've been able to use CVS to grab projects from SourceForge with no problem.

      More specifically, I was looking at how I can use ProjectBuilder.app's CVS integration. It has a whole menu for revision control and it is supposed to be integrated with ProjectBuilder. I'd like to use it to commit my changes to an upstream CVS server, is it looking for an environment variable to be set or something?

      Thanks for your help.

      -Pat

    3. Re:CVS on Mac OS X? by stripes · · Score: 2
      More specifically, I was looking at how I can use ProjectBuilder.app's CVS integration.

      The help files claim the CVS stuff works if you are working on a project already under CVS. So i guess checking whatever your working on in, and out again should make that stuff work.

      I have never tried it though, I didn't even realize it was there. Using a GUI to write and manage code is still new to me :-)

      (well, to be honest I used a crappy on on the Atari ST where I first learned C...)

    4. Re:CVS on Mac OS X? by thaigan · · Score: 1

      I think you may need this in your environment:
      CVSROOT=pserver:user@server:/path/to/CVSROOT
      You should then be able to use ProjectBuilder to check out your project.

      --

      42
  16. RSLEEP(1), for distributing requests over time. by Nonesuch · · Score: 2
    The problem of 'everybody deciding to update their mirror at exactly 12 midnight' is an issue for more than just CVS.


    I first ran into this at $VERY_LARGE_CORP where every machine was built off a standard image, which included a cron job to synchronize the clock with the master NTP server every hour, on the hour- which meant that precisely on the hour, the NTP server got slammed with hundreds of requests for the time.


    I'm not sure why nobody has adopted my solution to the problem of ensuring that all the hosts do not hit the server exactly on the hour- the 'rsleep' command.


    RSLEEP(1) MSG.Net General Commands Manual RSLEEP(1)



    NAME
    rsleep - suspend execution for a random interval of time


    SYNOPSIS
    rsleep seconds



    DESCRIPTION
    The rsleep command suspends execution for a minimum of 1 second, and as many as seconds.


    Primarily useful for scheduling cron jobs to introduce some 'jitter' in the timing of requests from numerous clients all built off the same image, for example:


    5 0 * * * rsleep 300; ntpdate -s ntphost


    Credits
    This incarnation of rsleep was first implemented by MSG.Net in 1994 as a 'ksh' script.

    --

    I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
  17. modula-3 is x86 only by nester · · Score: 1

    the big problem with cvsup is that it's written in modula-3. the only modula-3 compiler is for x86 only.

    1. Re:modula-3 is x86 only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We obviously didn't look too hard.

      I got the following list of platforms that the pm3 Modula-3 compiler runs on from http://m3.polymtl.ca/m3/binaries/.ghindex.html

      AIX386: IBM PC running AIX/PS2,
      AOSF: DEC Alpha AXP running OSF/1
      AP3000: Apollo DN4500 running Domain/OS
      ARM: Acorn R260 running RISC iX 1.21
      DS3100: DECstation 3100 and 5000 running Ultrix 4.0 and 4.2
      FreeBSD: Intel 386 running FreeBSD
      HP300: HP 9000/300 running HP-UX 8.0
      HPPA: HP 9000/700, 9000/800 running HP-UX 8.0
      IBMR2: IBM R6000 running AIX 3.1,
      IBMRT: IBM RT running IBM/4.3,
      LINUX: Intel 386 running LINUX
      NEXT: NeXT
      NT386: Intel 386 running Windows NT
      OKI: Okidata 7300 (i860) running UNIX SVR4.0
      SEQUENT: Sequent computers running ??
      SOL2: Sparc running Solaris 2.x
      SPARC: SPARCstation running SunOS 4.1.x
      SUN3: SUN3 running SunOS
      SUN386: Sun 386i running SunOS 4.0.1
      UMAX: Encore Multimax running UMAX 4.3 (R4.1.1)
      VAX: VAX running Ultrix 3.1

  18. Singer killed in plane crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heard this on NPR - a singer was killed in a plane crash in the Bahamas. Wow. What a bummer.

  19. BSDs should develop a truly free CVS equivalent by Brett+Glass · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    It is ironic that while CVSup is licensed under a BSD-like license, CVS itself is licensed under the GPL. This places the BSDs -- which themselves are licensed under a truly free license -- in thrall to a product that is GPLed.

    What should the BSDs do to avoid becoming dependent upon software which is licensed in a way that is contrary to their underlying philosophy -- to wit, that free software should be truly free for anyone to use in the way that benefits him or her most?

    Brett Glass

    1. Re:BSDs should develop a truly free CVS equivalent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brett,

      At the point the GPL changes to 'infect' any/all code/items processed by a GPLed tool, then there WILL be a desire to be rid of the GPLed tool.

      Given GCC's extensive use to compile BSD licencsed code, getting rid GCC should be a higher priority issue.

    2. Re:BSDs should develop a truly free CVS equivalent by Brett+Glass · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Given GCC's extensive use to compile BSD licencsed code, getting rid [of] GCC should be a higher priority issue.

      I don't disagree. GCC also poses another threat: it is wiping out virtually all alternatives. A monoculture is not a good thing, and so for this reason alone a BSD-licensed alternative should be developed.

  20. I'd just like to say.... by jesseraf · · Score: 1

    That cvsup is one of this coolest things about *BSD. It's more or less the reason why I choose FreeBSD over Linux when admining servers. It's make the administrative job of updating and securing your machines so easy.

  21. BSDs should develop a truly free compiler by mvw · · Score: 2

    I agree with you.

    Although a decent C++ compiler will take about 10 man years to finish.

    Plus C++ Standard library.
    Plus linker, assembler and debugger.

    On the other hand if one doesn't start with it, it probably won't take off ever.

    Anyone mad enough and seriously interested in that task should drop me a mail.

    Regards,
    Marc

  22. Linux by pelote · · Score: 1

    Just fucking sucks. I mean it's a useless piece of trash OS. Hell so is *bsd, windows

    My name's Ed sweetman and I'm a pig fucking idiot

  23. CVSup GUI by hodeleri · · Score: 2

    The CVSup GUI was really more of a debugging tool than something that was supposed to be useful. Ask Polstra.

    --
    marotti.com