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Exploiting and Protecting 802.11b Networks

iforgotmyfirstlogon writes: "A couple of guys from Extreme Tech drove around New York, New Jersey, Boston, and Silicon Valley with a high gain antenna to see how many (secure and) unsecure wireless networks they could tap into. They used NetStumbler and Linux AirSnort to help them search. Results? They came across over 800 networks and less than 40% had any sort of security."

168 comments

  1. yet another by kochsr · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    looks interesting... HIGH GAIN BABY!

  2. 802.11b Insecurities by pryan · · Score: 1, Informative

    It takes less than 1000 packets to crack the cryptographic protocols in 802.11b WEP, regardless of key strength. Even those 802.11b networks with so-called security probably aren't very secure against someone casing the network. Use a higher-level protocol such as Kerberos or IPSec on top of the WEP.

  3. This just in... by batobin · · Score: 4, Funny

    They later went on to add that, "Out of the 40% of computers in which access was gained, just over 20% were serving some really great porn. Hey, why do you think we did this survey in the first place?"

    1. Re:This just in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Porn in San Francisco... shudder

    2. Re:This just in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey man...whatever floats your boat. Just don't go where you don't want to be.

  4. Thats nothing by Jeff+Knox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Peter Shipley did that in San Fransisco and found smaling like 2500 access points. The only way this will ever be fixed is if companies realize that you cannot depend on protocol level security. WEP is not the answer. Tunneled SSL, or some sort of VPN end to end security is the only way to protect your connect.

    --
    Jeff Knox
    1. Re:Thats nothing by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2
      Peter Shipley did that in San Fransisco and found smaling like 2500 access points. The only way this will ever be fixed is if companies realize that you cannot depend on protocol level security.
      I agree... but I think for different reasons than most people may think. The technology discussed in this thread tends to be viewed as a mechanism to secure access to the internal network (or external internet - I suspect abuse of resources will become a big issue eventually). That's only part of the issue brought forth by wireless network equipment.

      A lot of assumptions are being made on how corporate IT departments deploy wireless networks. And it is a valid issue. Security does not come naturally to a large segment of IT professionals. However, it isn't the only issue.

      My favorite point to harp on is - rogue access points.

      Wireless network access points are (relatively) cheap. They're designed to go from box to plug-n-play insecure (damned that functionalty vs. security inverse thing) on the network in a few quick, easy steps. This will lead to a large number of corporate internal networks becoming exposed to external, and considerably less noticable, access as individuals begin to provide their own wireless connectivity. And it will be unlikely this issue will go away anytime soon.

      The internal network is now a hostile environment (as if it wasn't already). Interenal security practices must be considered and secure protocols implemented. It'll be a hassle for a lot of organizations who have relied on firewalls to provide the hard, crunchy exterior to protect the chewy goodness of the internal network.

      Crunch.

  5. yawn by tagplazen · · Score: 2, Funny

    You know, these people driving around looking for wide open networks are probably the ones that raise the biggest stink about "script kiddys" any time someone finds a new security hole.

    Yes, WEP is insecure. Yes, there are a lot of networks that are just thrown up. Wow, kind of like wire eh? Reminds me of that great quote, "Never attribute to malicousness what can be explained by human stupidity."

    1. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I threw up an 802.11b access point in my apartment. I didn't bother to use WEP since I really don't care. If anyone in this building actually is computer literate and is using 802.11b within the couple hundred feet distance, more power to them. Feel free to share my ISDN line. :-)

    2. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just bought a Linksys AP and NIC (range sucks, BTW) and tonight I brought up my NIC in ad hoc mode, and viola, I got a link on Channel 11 and even see a few packets passing. Unfortunately the cool tools like NetTumbler don't work with the chipset my Linksys NIC uses, so I can't see what I'm connecting to.

  6. Any How-to Doc on how to secure your wireless LANS by mgpeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does anyone know of any good Documentation on how to secure wireless communications ?? I know we have 2 wireless connections between 3 building using SMC's Wireless routers, and the only security that was built in other than the 64 and 128 bit encryption (which is apparently crackable), and only allowing certain MAC addresses to communicate (which is also easy to crack).

    So instead of writing articles on how bad wireless tech is to crack, (4th article I've read in a week) why not write a how-to on how to implement security on your wireless LANs.

  7. nosy twerps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    is this any different than going into a neighborhood and checking if peoples' doors and windows are locked?

    what if i want to keep my network unsecured, what business of it is yours?

    this sounds more like they are "casing the joint" for future criminal activity.

    cops can arrest you for doing that. they should arrest people who do this as well.

    1. Re:nosy twerps by dytin · · Score: 1

      There is one major difference: With wireless networks, the radio waves are being sent out, these people did not actually go onto anyone's property, for the most part they just recieved the radio waves that were being sent to them. Now, when they tried to see if the router had the default password on it, that was stretching it. I would be pissed off if someone tried to break into my computer, even if it were my fault that i left in insecure.

    2. Re:nosy twerps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but they did not just happen to receive the radio waves and analysis. it wasn't just lying around to be picked up, like cash on the sidewalk. they are doing to analysizing and capturing themselves. with satellite systems, like directv, this is illegal.

    3. Re:nosy twerps by S.+Allen · · Score: 1

      "casing the joint" is not illegal unless you trespass. So passive collection of data (i.e. remote observation) whether via reception of photons (eyeballs) or radio waves (802.11 card) is OK.

      On the other hand, if you walk up the driveway and turn the front door knob, try to lift the window, or poke at other "well known ports", I think should be considered trespassing and punishable. Exceptions to the rule would be legitimate public interfaces like knocking on the front door or an HTTP GET on port 80.

    4. Re:nosy twerps by Evil+MarNuke · · Score: 1

      Ok, I tell you what. Go to the getto, leave you car unlocked and enter a store. Then see if a cop cab find you car for you.

      Take personal reposiably for you actions and deal with the sin of the world. Since Adam and Eve ate the apple there has been sin. It's not going to change becuase you don't like it and call people "nosy twerps".

      /me beats AC with the clue stick

      --
      The journey is better then the end.
    5. Re:nosy twerps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, so how does your walking up my driveway differ from someone coming in over my network connection through my router and trying to log into one of my hosts? Sorry, a court may not convict you but that's the surest way to get me to ban your entire class C. :-)

    6. Re:nosy twerps by scotch · · Score: 1
      "casing the joint" is not illegal unless you trespass. So passive collection of data (i.e. remote observation) whether via reception of photons (eyeballs) or radio waves (802.11 card) is OK.

      Radio waves are photons, too.


      HTH

      --
      XML causes global warming.
    7. Re:nosy twerps by linerate · · Score: 1

      Isn't there laws against snooping someones chordless phone conversasions?? I mean, even the cops need court orders. Those are photons too.

    8. Re:nosy twerps by squeegee-me · · Score: 1

      The laws vary somewhat from what I know about them, but they usualy say, "you can listen to cordless phones with a scanner/reciever all you want, but if you do anything with the information you recieve, usualy this is for info like credit card numbers, you can be arested and charged for one or more reasons." Essentually, you can laugh at your neighbors on their cordless phones all you want, but don't use their PIN number for anything, or show up at the place where they were planning to meet someone else. This becomes stalking in most cases, no matter how cute they are.

      --
      Who wants Pork Chops?
  8. What is the difference? by Erasei · · Score: 1

    When some guys get in their car and drive about looking for open wireless networks, they have an article posted about how they are pointing out such great problems. It is even implied (at least to me) that these guys are helping spread the word about wireless network security. Yet, when someone does the exact same thing over a wired network, it's called Port Scanning and they are labelled 'script kiddies' and are cursed and thought of a less-than-human. I don't understand it. (This is not a troll, or meant as a flame, just my thoughts on the matter.)

    --
    visit my free wallpaper collection, wp.erasei.com
    1. Re:What is the difference? by Killio · · Score: 0

      Because they weren't doing it maliciously. And anyway, it's something different. When you have 1000's of people driving around trying to h4x0r 802.11b networks, it won't be the same thing anymore.

    2. Re:What is the difference? by Erasei · · Score: 1

      I +can+ see a difference really, but how do you know that the port scanners are doing it maliciously either? (Granted most are, but not everyone.. they might be running some type of survey on unsecured Red Hat boxen for a university paper (it could happen)). And I understand about the technology being new and how security needs to be tightened while it still can be, but my point was: I don't think someone should be looked up to for doing something so near to something that someone else is looked down on for. If that makes any sense.

      --
      visit my free wallpaper collection, wp.erasei.com
    3. Re:What is the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux is excellent for security. When you use Linux not only are you getting high security but by taking advantage of its SMP support you get both security and high performance. It really is an unbeatable combination. I would recommend Linux to anyone wishing to implement a secure high performance wireless network.

  9. Networks for and by the people... by Zergwyn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There has been a lot of talk about people deploying many 802.11b connections privately, thus building non-corporate owned, cooperative wireless access to the net around cities and such. This might put a bit of a damper on that, but IMO it should not stop it by any means. While people might not be able to order stuff for now, there are a great many things to do that don't require security, and such nets really seem to be the ultimate expression of a free internet. If/when firmware updates become available, the access would just be that much better. It would also put more pressure on commercial interests.

    1. Re:Networks for and by the people... by IronChef · · Score: 2


      I don't see how a network "by and for the people" can survive. It seems like any open access point that can be used anonymously is going to attract a bad element who will abuse it.

      I would certainly never share wireless bandwidth with my neighborhood because I don't want the FBI to come knock on my door for what the punk kid down the street did via my wireless generosity. Screw that kid -- he can pay for his own ISP and go 0wn someone's unsecured server to stage his attacks from, in the time-honored tradition of his forefathers.

    2. Re:Networks for and by the people... by alexandre · · Score: 1

      And then comes a time when the net will be owned by so little major company that we'll be screwed and have to pay huge somes of money to get a connection? :-/

      There must be a line in-between :)

  10. Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article is crap. Did you notice how the
    percentage of "unsecured" (ie, lacking WEP)
    networks went up significantly when they drove
    by MIT? Of course. We're smart enough to have
    realized that WEP is a joke, and so the hundreds
    of access points set up on campus for student
    use don't offer it. At all. It's by design,
    not stupidity. Using WEP gives you an entirely
    false sense of security.

  11. Long distance 802.11b by Hypnos7787 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article's completely right about wireless exceeding their advertised range, i've just got home from the LBW where we had a single flat panel antenna connected to a regular base station transmitting over about 1 1/2 miles up to the campsite, to another relatively small antenna connected to a wavelan card in a laptop. Sure the link went down at the slightest hint of bad weather, and we got about 30% packet loss, but we were still getting about 500mbits. :)

    --
    - Hypnos
    1. Re:Long distance 802.11b by Hypnos7787 · · Score: 1

      erk, 500kbits, obviously.

      --
      - Hypnos
  12. Re:Any How-to Doc on how to secure your wireless L by tagplazen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is this guys comment a 0? A "how to" may not be as sexy as driving around for open networks, (and if you think that's sexy, you've been way toooo into Final Fantasy jpegs), but it's definitely needed.

    However, in a brief spiel before I have to run, ensure end-to-end encryption. Approach it just like you would a normal WAN. Disable telnet and ftp on your servers, use SSH and SCP instead. Harden your hosts. Look into using FreeSwan or the BSD's IPSec solutions for vpns. Switch over to DJDNS. In short, do everything that people should be doing on their 'normal' wired networks. It never ceases to amaze me that just because WEP is easy to break, everything else must be totally secure by default.

    Hope that helps.

  13. Don't see why it's a problem by island_earth · · Score: 1

    If you don't have any resources unprotected on your network, why shouldn't the wireless network be wide open? My suggestion is to leave the network open, set up secure tunnels for the important stuff, and let passers-by use your 'net connection. Where's the harm in that?

    That's probably what the 40% were doing, anyway...

    1. Re:Don't see why it's a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I like having an open access point, both for me and the folks passing by. The important stuff is easy to secure.

      It's really annoying when these security geeks go around whining about how insecure 802.11 networks are. Get over it already :)

      ~

    2. Re:Don't see why it's a problem by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2
      and let passers-by use your 'net connection. Where's the harm in that?

      Your proposal is a great public service. Many crackers out there are in dire need of a totally untraceable way to launch the next innovations in Outlook and IIS worms. Without wide open wireless access points, advances in malware state-of-the-art would be needlessly hindered.

  14. some do and dont simultaneously by jeffy124 · · Score: 2
    Did this study take into account that some 802.11 networks can operate under either secure or unsecure simultaneously? Example: My school's campus has 802.11 running throughout the campus. Because the school is in a major city and the network can be reached from about a quarter mile from campus, you must register the mac addresses of your wireless card before you can use it. From there, you can use secure (using WEP) or unsecure (no WEP) to use the network. Reason for this flexibility is to allow older cards to operate on the wireless network.

    From the looks of this survey these guys did, if they were to come by my campus (they didnt, it's not in any of the cities they drove around), one of a few things could happen:

    1. this network would appear to be insecure because non-WEPed transmissions could be found on it.
    2. This network wasnt found because the school network would refuse access to it.
    3. The network is secure because it was found, but data could not be accessed because the school network wouldnt allow it.
    Any thoughts?
    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeh, because your MAC address is ultra-secure.

    2. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by ConsumedByTV · · Score: 2

      My lucent card can change the mac address with the default windows apps it comes with. Give me a break. Wireless is insecure.

      --


      "Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
    3. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by lw54 · · Score: 1

      ummmm..... as every other stock holder will tell ya, Lucent is insecure. :-)

    4. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by jeffy124 · · Score: 2

      I just checked the status pages of the network, it looks like they're taking steps to counteract the exploit discovered recently. The school will provide software that runs on your laptop that encrypts the data using 168-bit 3DES (and other security measures). How this works and what software that is exactly it doesnt say.

      The software probably sits just above the driver and does the work there, and then the school's antennas decrpyt it. Vice versa for data being transmitted to the laptop. Dont know how they would do the key exchange securely or anything like that.

      The BIG plus here is that it now wont matter what card you use nor whether or not it supports WEP. Unfortunately, it may depend on what OS you're running.

      --
      The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    5. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2
      My lucent card can change the mac address

      so, can MAC's be sniffed, then? I'm assuming they can be, but if they can't, you'd obviously have to know which mac's are allowed in before you set yours.

      still, it looks like the .11b folks really didn't do their homework. too bad - think of all those 128bit 'gold cards' that people paid extra for, only to now find out that they got NO extra value for their dollar.

      (and can this encryption bug be fixed in firmware? I sure hope so - it would be nice..)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by ConsumedByTV · · Score: 2

      Well thats great if your talking about sniffing the data, but for getting onto the network there still might be a way around it for people who dont have the ability to run windows or install the driver.

      --


      "Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
    7. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by ConsumedByTV · · Score: 2

      Yes you can sniff mac addresses.

      --


      "Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
    8. Re:some do and dont simultaneously by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2
      I know they can be on wired nets, I was just hoping that the .11b standard would mask the mac addr or somehow code the addr's differently from the payload.

      for extra security, I probably would have taken the mac and munged it somehow, a-la PKI (public/private combo). giving away the addr seems somehow worse than giving the pkt contents away. if you let the text be readable, you've lost individual privacy. if you give out the mac addr, you've just lost network security, which I think is much worse.

      at any rate, it seems the .11b standard is very broken. how the hell did it get to full standard status without someone realizing these basic design flaws??

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  15. A Wireless College... by purduephotog · · Score: 1

    Was advertised on Television in NY (SUNY, Alderson? Anderson? not sure). Begs the question- who's watching?

    Their article is nothing new, really, it was just the first documented 'story'. In fact, shouldn't they be tossed in prison for port scanning and gaining access to unauthorized resources?

    Puts a damper on Free nodes- I wonder how many people are going to spend the money on wireless with the intent to give it away for free if, every time they turn it on, they are probed almost as maliciously as when the cable light comes on.

    1. Re:A Wireless College... by themassiah · · Score: 1

      Alfred State, I believe, has a completely wireless enabled campus.

      --
      - Sometimes you're the pidgeon, sometimes you're the statue.
    2. Re:A Wireless College... by kochsr · · Score: 1

      if you don't want people sniffing you, run X apps tunneled through ssh, and all will be well

    3. Re:A Wireless College... by purduephotog · · Score: 1

      There we go- Alfred State. I knew it started with an 'A' :)

  16. Wires, I like wires. by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 1

    granted you could do the same thing on most wired networks just as easy, I suppose.
    But wireless signals do have a limited range in feet/yards, but heck if you put the time or find something unsecured you could do it a couple of continents away.

    Next in the news: unsecured IIS boxes running unsecured wireless access. @home sues for patent infringment for "pointless wastes of bandwidth 'we though of first' "
    Film @ 11, in DivX ;), naturally.

    Moose.

    If I hit you with a post, and no one sees it, do I get a fish?

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  17. I've got a open network... by thogard · · Score: 1

    It more like two open networks. One is the test network in our lab which isn't connected to anything other than other devices were playing with and the other is a point to point lan between a linux box and a solaris box. The solaris box is currently undergoing an audit but its going to live oustside of the firewall which is kind of where it is now. AT work I've had to make it very clear that If I catch any of this wireless stuff pluged into my network, I'll turn off their port. I may have gottent my point accross or maybe not but I still scan for arp traffic of the ether address ranges of the offending devices.

    1. Re:I've got a open network... by deranged+unix+nut · · Score: 1

      That works all fine and dandy until someone uses NAT to connect their wireless access point to your network in such a way that you can't see their MAC addresses.

      (That's how we used to run networks of 20 machines in a dorm room when they restricted traffic to the NIC with the MAC address that we had to register with the network admin.)

  18. This is a little unfair .... by taniwha · · Score: 2, Redundant
    most of the people I know who know what they are doing now basicly drop their access point down outside their firewall and insist that users VPN/SSH in.



    By doing this you are basicly acknowledging that the security isn't there and force your users to use secure tools to get to secure places.



    Anyway my point is that if one of these guys drives by my home they'll probably pick up up my 802.11 and add it to their map, maybe even hack it to get access to the 'net - but do I care? nope

    1. Re:This is a little unfair .... by thrig · · Score: 1

      Until a malicious being hacks a site through your network or uploads defametory/DMCA-bait material and suddenly your ISP has pulled your access or some friendly folks are asking you to tone down on the death threats to the president.

      I suspect such malicious folks are of similar bent to those who leave beer cans littered around senic parks, personally.

    2. Re:This is a little unfair .... by taniwha · · Score: 1
      how can someone hack your site if the wireless router is OUTSIDE your firewall? (or rather how can they hack it any more easily than any other attack on your firewall)



      The whole point is to just accept that your wireless connection is as unsafe as the larger 'net - and treat it the same way

    3. Re:This is a little unfair .... by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      Not your site, but another insecure site, but from your ip space. I think the worst thing aspects would be someone spamming via your access point. Then your netblock gets blacklisted and/or your ISP gets mad.

      If you want to run a "free" access point, you still need to be responsible. Put the access point in your dmz and have your outside router filter SMTP (tcp/25) outbound except from your legitimate internal SMTP servers. Your normal users should be using a VPN/tunnel to the inside of your network for email anyway.

      That's the biggest service I can think of you'd want to stop some jerk from messing with. Can anyone else think of other services beyond just stuff that would hog the bandwidth (which could be anything)?

  19. Workaround for WEP by shokk · · Score: 2

    We also treat the wireless security as a joke. We're using an access point located outside our firewall behind another firewall. All clients using the access point get back into the corporate network using the same VPN software they use while on the road. In fact, they are now set up so they never turn the VPN software off.


    Anyone breaking the security of our access point gets plain old Internet access and doesn't get into the corporate net.

    --
    "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
    1. Re:Workaround for WEP by sporktoast · · Score: 1

      We're using an access point located outside our firewall behind another firewall. [...] Anyone breaking the security of our access point gets plain old Internet access and doesn't get into the corporate net.
      Is this your company's only net access? I hope that you are running that guerilla net knowingly.

      It is one thing to openly allow access, with users presumably understanding that they should not abuse a common resource. It is another to leave your (I'm assuming) fat pipe open to NetStumblers, who may be more inclined to over-exploit it while they still can.

      Also, does unencrypted SMTP or other traffic go in/out via this link? You have a sniffer's paradise if it does.

      --
      In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
    2. Re:Workaround for WEP by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      I'd assume you mean SMTP that is going to be coming from LAN-based servers and out the router to the internet. Unless a user is using SMTP (and not tunneling in first), the access point isn't going to send any of that traffic via 802.11b, so nothing to sniff. Unless the traffic is to/from a wireless card (or between two bridges), it's not going to be transmitted. The access point is a bridge, and sniffing on one side of a bridge with all the nodes on the LAN side is nearly pointless (you get to new learn mac and ip addresses from broadcasts, but that's it).

    3. Re:Workaround for WEP by shokk · · Score: 2

      WEP is in place as a minor deterrent in case someone comes by. It is definitely not our only access, but no one gets access unless they crack our WEP since the system is set to reject unencrypted data. No unencrypted traffic goes through that access point as that network is dedicated to that use.

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
  20. So put it outside the firewall. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Informative

    WEP is not the answer. Tunneled SL, or some sort of VPN end to end security is the only way to protect your connect.

    Hear hear.

    So the thing to do is to put the wireless LAN port on the logical OUTSIDE of your firewall and let the laptops all tunnel in through it. Your firewall can also filter connections between the WLAN and your net feed.

    For the open net your users can also encrypted-tunnel to the tunnel server and go out from there, to avoid eavesdroppers. With this configuration there's no reason to bother with WEP.

    Go ahead and route packets between the net and the wireless port if you're feeling altruistic, or restrict WLAN connections to the tunnel server(s) if you're not.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:So put it outside the firewall. by nmarshall · · Score: 1

      So the thing to do is to put the wireless LAN port on the logical OUTSIDE of your firewall and let the laptops all tunnel in through it. Your firewall can also filter connections between the WLAN and your net feed.

      kinda, what you do is have one firewall then your DMZ with the wireless LAN there then your REAL firewall. you dont need black hat's geting to the laptops on your wireless LAN from the web, nor into your LAN from the wireless LAN.

      --
      nmarshall

      The law is that which it boldly asserted and plausibly maintained..
      --Colonel Burr 1783
    2. Re:So put it outside the firewall. by sulli · · Score: 2
      Exactly. This is the ONLY choice.

      An 802.11 network outside the firewall may be open to abuse by warez kidz, but it won't be open to unauthorized access to your PRIVATE NETWORK that you've probably spent many $K to secure via firewalls and the like. Assume that ALL 802.11 traffic is public internet traffic, and then run IPSec over it for all private traffic, and you should be okay.

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
  21. Linuxworld APs by xwred1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There were a few APs at Linuxworld, about 11 or 12 networks when I scanned, I think only a couple had an real security.

    The OSDN booth had a wide open AP that I was able to use to get net access while I was hanging around nearby.

    I was checking Slashdot, almost caught a breaking story for First Post, while I was in the audience listening to CmdrTaco's Q&A session.

    Hopefully, from now on there will be more and more open APs at conventions so I can get net access at random places on the floor.

    1. Re:Linuxworld APs by cruiserman · · Score: 1

      no need to scan at LWE, just ask, i did, people were more than happy to offer access. =)

  22. Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by jwkane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It comes down to speed vs. privacy. You can ignore WEP and use IPsec or a VPN. You'll take a speed hit, but you'll have reasonable privacy.

    If you don't mind exchanging some privacy for additional speed, 128 bit WEP isn't a bad choice. It hasn't lived up to it's "Wired Equivalent" name but sniffing and decrypting is a non-trivial operation.

    For more speed with minimal privacy, 80 bit WEP doesn't cost much bandwidth (2%) and you're still only going to be sniffed and decrypted by folks with a clue.

    In some situations, speed is most important and privacy is meaningless. Suppose you're downloading Debian ISO's over a wireless link. There are times (one might argue the majority of internet traffic) when privacy just doesn't matter. If you can use reliable encrypted protocols for the exceptions then open mode 802.11b is fine. What are you trying to hide?

    As long as we're able to encrypt those transactions that require privacy none of the WEP "stuff" matters. How secure is your wired network internet traffic after it gets to your ISP?

    1. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, just about any modern computer can do 11Mbps (insert favorite RC* number here) fairly readily. If your'e using a protocol that does compression to boot, you may actually experience faster speeds, but possibly higher latencies. Of course, you have to have machines on both sides of this hypothetical VPN that can cope with the increaced loads, but with most modern machines, this is hardly a concern, unless one is consistently pumping out max bandwith.

    2. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the possibility of launching a virus or sending anonymous email off your connection... That'd be my big concern. Just picture some hip spammer in a minivan touring the country, spamming all along the way!

    3. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by reverius · · Score: 3

      I don't think they're talking about wireless internet...

      The point is that wireless internal networks (very common) are not secure in the same sense that wired ones are. And that is a very bad thing.

      For instance, lets say you're sharing the C drive of one of your computers through SMB (CIFS, also known as "File and Printer Sharing" in Windows). This is only on your local network, keep in mind. I actually do this - there's no reason not to, because no one can break into my house to connect to my LAN.

      Now, lets say I have a wireless network, but it's not secure (80-bit WEP or somesuch). Somebody could crack the encryption key easily, parked on my block (not even directly in front of my house), and then do bad things, like:

      - Delete the contents of my C drive
      - Replace system files
      - Put data on my HD that I did not ask for (anything illegal)
      - Take data from my HD they were not supposed to have access to (work stuff, etc.)

      Or anything else malicious. Only people with malicious intent would do this, but usually not to a home network. Therefore, the danger is not present in home networks as well as wireless internet (where it was never present - the connection is a direct line-of-sight link, not geographically spread over a radius).

      The danger is present in corporate or government or military insecure networks. If somebody can stand outside of the parking lot of the Pentagon and get data, that's very bad. :)

    4. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, the really sad thing is that the equivalent is happening on wired networks too. On my DSL line (bridged ethernet), there are an incredible ammount of computers that are sharing stuff with no permissions. I personally have a firewall that happily blocks all that crap, but I had to diagnose my connection one day using my winblows laptop, and found crap for the taking! Company records, wedding photos, mp3s, schedules, and on one computer the entire C drive, including cookies to all the fun online sotres. I printed a note to this one particular person on her lexmark printer, noting that something should be done about this dire situation. Hopefully she got the message, but who knows. I can imagine that this situation exists elsewhere too, and caused by the same crowd that passed along CodeRedv.x, I doubt anything will happen about it though.

    5. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interfering with something as harmless as a Debian ISO download can be very dangerous. What if the file is altered on the fly? There are readily available programs that make this easy...

    6. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by Speed+Racer · · Score: 1

      Interfering with something as harmless as a Debian ISO download can be very dangerous. What if the file is altered on the fly? There are readily available programs that make this easy...


      I've never downloaded a Debian ISO but all the Mandrake ISO's I've gotten have an MD5 sum on the server that I compare to a locally calculated MD5 sum to make sure the binary is identical.

      --
      Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
    7. Re:Thoughts on 802.11b 'privacy' by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 2
      There are times (one might argue the majority of internet traffic) when privacy just doesn't matter. If you can use reliable encrypted protocols for the exceptions then open mode 802.11b is fine. What are you trying to hide?


      Cryptographic analysis includes analyzing what is encrypted and what isn't, and drawing conclusions from that data. For example, if you never encrypt your email to family members but always encrypt email to one individual, one might conclude that your corrispondence with that individual is of an illegal nature, and seek a search warrant to bug your PC and find out what you're really discussing. Maybe it's the weather. Maybe it's the weather in Bolivia and how it will affect the next crop. We won't know, Judge, unless we tap that PC and read the mail ourselves. If you encrypt everything then you've cut off one more data source.


      The other analogy would be to ask why you send letters when a post card would do; why not save money (bandwidth) with postcards for the familiy update to Mom and only use letters for the secret stuff, like love letters? The answer is that your family updates to Mom are nobody's business but yours, and my answer to you is that your Debian ISO download is also nobody's business but yours.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
  23. The future is now. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you have 1000's of people driving around trying to h4x0r 802.11b networks, it won't be the same thing anymore.

    How do you know you don't ALREADY have thousands of people driving around sniffing 802.11b nets?

    And how is a person supposed to distinguish nets left open deliberately, as a public service, from those left open accidentally?

    The existence of public 802.11b ports gives plausabile deniability of criminal intent to anyone making parasitic but non-malicious use of an accidentally-open WLAN.

    (IANAL of course. But I'd hate to be a prosecutor trying to bring a case against someone who "trespassed" on a WLAN port.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:The future is now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There ARE thousands of people wardriving. Trust me. We're going out tonight, and it's certainly not the first time, and we know of many others who do the same in many areas.

  24. Drive By Hacking by StrikerObi · · Score: 4, Funny

    There seems to be a recent outbreak in these "drive by hackings." Thank the gods my friend registered www.drivebyhacking.com a couple months ago. Now we just have to figure out what to put up there.

    --
    ----- Mike Sklens Staff Writer, Planet GameCube.com
    1. Re:Drive By Hacking by geomcbay · · Score: 3, Funny

      You homies be east side or west side hackaz?

      Represent!

  25. Isn't this analagous to robbing 800 banks ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Isn't this a bit like breaking into 800 safes using illegal 'safe cracking' tools, and then complaining to the banks about security, when in fact it is you who are the criminal ?


    Doesn't the DMCA say anything about this kind of illegal activity ?

    1. Re:Isn't this analagous to robbing 800 banks ? by Splork · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why of course, under the logic similar to that found in the DMCA, all wireless networks are perfectly secure!

      There, don't you feel better now? Our fine Brother Sam passed a law saying that something is so it must be true and has always been true.

      double plus good i say!

      1984 here we come.

    2. Re:Isn't this analagous to robbing 800 banks ? by __aaahtg7394 · · Score: 2

      you must be from the south... where i come from, he's Uncle Sam.

      <insert lyrics to "I'm my own grampa" here>

    3. Re:Isn't this analagous to robbing 800 banks ? by urmensch · · Score: 0

      maybe you should read 1984

    4. Re:Isn't this analagous to robbing 800 banks ? by jsse · · Score: 1

      In the past those who don't farm controlling the food supply, result in rebellation.

      Now those who know the hell nothing about computers decides what we should do, and majority of the programmers prefer to keep their mouth shut and not to vote someone wiser.

  26. So they failed the WEP test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Most of the results here were simply that people
    aren't using WEP. We're constantly being told
    how useless WEP is, so I can understand that.

    I don't use WEP on my 802.11b home network, but
    the firewall blocks everything other than port 22 tcp.

  27. Two alternatives by slyckshoes · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This seems to indicate to me that I have two options (considering decaffeinated coffee isn't an option):

    1) Don't stop drinking coffee, thereby eliminating the 'first cup'.

    2) Chase the first cup of coffee with a beer to counter the hardening of my arteries and increased blood pressure.

    1. Re:Two alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You need to drink more coffee so you can pay more attention to the story you reply to.

    2. Re:Two alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3) Post to the wrong story, demonstrating why you go to schoo on a shortbus.

      I don't know about arteries, but naked women harden my main vein.

  28. yeah its different by Srin+Tuar · · Score: 1


    Its more like going thru a neighborhood and checking if anybody stores their cash on the sidewalk.


    Also if their are storing their loaded firearms and gossip sheets about their neighbors, and even
    personal data entrusted to the homeowner.


    So its pretty much everybody's business, isnt it.

  29. Re:Any How-to Doc on how to secure your wireless L by indiigo · · Score: 2, Informative

    read the article:
    http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,apn%25 3D 7%2526s%253D1024%2526a%253D13880%2526app%253D5%252 6ap%253D6,00.asp

    --
    fslg503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-86 8650 3-985-fdsg8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-9
  30. (Im)practical applications of this fact by Sagarian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was in a Starbucks here in Austin, TX which offers 802.11b access (for a fee). Instead of winding up on the provider's network, I was on the Safeway network (the Starbuck's is inside a Randall's / Safeway supermarket). This allowed my Win2000 laptop to browse the supermarket network, which has many shared [and unsecured] systems probably used for re-ordering / EDI, etc. The real issue is about education of network professionals about wireless security and how to implment it, whether or not they use WEP (Safeway clearly did NOT). I for one just wanted my 'net access via Starbucks and not Safeway's ultra-slow (probably frame relay) network.

    1. Re:(Im)practical applications of this fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Supermarkets were early adopters of spread-spectrum WLANs. Lot of them quite possibly before WEP was common so they're probably less likely than the average wireless network to have it enabled (i.e. pretty unlikely). I'm sure there's *all* sorts of interesting bits and pieces around ;)

    2. Re:(Im)practical applications of this fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, question is when are they going to cover the complete downtown area of Austin, TX in wireless/802.11b tech, I live off 5th and have really been considering making something like this avail, probably need to startup some org. Hell why not e-mail me if in the downtown area - coldboot@mad.scientist.com

  31. Think again by S.+Allen · · Score: 1

    I'm still not convinced that's all that safe. For example, do you believe that two machines attached via a hub (not switch) using ssh or vpn to establish a link is totally safe from a third machine attached to the same hub?

    Some pretty clever hacks were employed back in the day before wirespread use of switches and those hacks are all relevant once again against wireless networks. Don't be lulled into a false sense of security just because you think you negotiated an encrypted link.

    1. Re:Think again by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 1

      what, a man in the middle attack?

      ack... that is old...

      --
      ... hi bingo ...
    2. Re:Think again by funky+womble · · Score: 1
      Don't think that a switch gives you any protection...

  32. Re:Screw Dialup by Fun+In+The+Sun · · Score: 0

    Word up yo, mad props! Transfer by XMODEM dawg! Who needs that ZMODEM crap!

  33. There are no Secure 802.11 networks... by Black+Art · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not when you can crack all of them with AirSnort.

    All it takes is time and traffic.

    Of course, it still amazes me that so few had even the most basic levels of security installed.

    Then again, most of the managers I have worked for seem to think that if you take steps to protect yourself, you become liable if you get hacked. (Yes, I know that makes no sense. Never stopped them...)

    --
    "Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
  34. so what. by Raleel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We know wep is insecure. There is little point in even putting anything on these nets. as a matter of fact I can find reasons not to. Let's say for example that you run a facility that has large numbers of people from outside coming in. WOuld it make sense to enforce 128 bit encryption? Sheesh, all the people with bronze (no encryption) and silver (40/64 bit encryption) can't use it.

    As someone pointed out above, put it outside the firewall, requirte ssh/vpn to get inside a firewall. tell people it's an insecure net, and recommend personal firewalls (zone alarm. blackice, ipchains, etc).

    The major benefit of wireless is access anywhere. Security directly conflicts with access. For example, managing MAC level security (restricting by MAC) is a pain in the keister. WEP is worthless. So assume all your traffic is insecure and use something to encrypt it. If you really need to prevent people from getting on and using your net, _don't use wireless_.

    --
    -- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
  35. Traceable? by sdo1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can just imagine some poor network admin trying to figure out who the heck is using their network to surf for pr0n (and imagine the PHB trying to figure out who they need to fire).

    But seriously, with wireless it seems like it would be incredibly difficult to trace the unauthorized user. Land based hacks are usually done over the internet rather than by physically connecting to their network. As a result, there's usually logs to help track down the person(s) using the network.

    But this seems incredibly tough... if the cracker didn't go anywhere on the network that would give themselves away (such as logging into hotmail to check their mail), I would guess that it would damn near impossible to find out who was sneaking into the network... even if/when they were actually connected. I would guess that the wireless network might get the MAC address of the card being used to get into the network, but even that likely wouldn't get you anywhere.

    Is that true, or am I missing something here?

    -S

    --
    --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    1. Re:Traceable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As we speak, thousands of Russian and Chinese manchurian candidates are being programmed to assault the computer networks of the United States through this new method. Well, maybe not, heh..

    2. Re:Traceable? by Psarchasm · · Score: 2

      You would trace it down to the Wireless Access Point in fairly short order based on the address scope you had given that segment of your network. From there if its obviously a rogue (drive by) you simply turn off the Access Point until you can come up with a workable solution for your network.

      As is typical its $cost (time/material) vs. requirement (level of data security required).

      I think you'll find more and more of these "Free Networks" drop out due to people using them for nefarious actions on the internet from the safety of their car... no wait... their bike... no wait... the guy sitting on the bench over there... Nooooooo please... don't cut my line... it wasn't me!!!

      That or they will start heavily filtering on the allowable outbound traffic the people offering these networks will allow... out.

      --
      http://windows.scares.us
  36. Re:Any How-to Doc on how to secure your wireless L by jonestor · · Score: 1
  37. believe dat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, but how many drive by's do you have in your neighborhood?

  38. $$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think my boss is gonna go for the
    "the guys in the parking lot say we're eating up
    too much bandwidth and should use a caching proxy.." type thing thanks, not at $800 a month.

  39. MOD THIS UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What idiot modded this down? It's FUNNY! And RELEVANT! Off-topic indeed!

  40. The Law by darthtuttle · · Score: 1

    A little research in to what I want in a contract to do security work without being arrested for hacking led me to discover that the law is very strict and straight forward. The point? These guys broke the law big time, did it hundreds of times, and advertised it in the media. If someone wanted to charge them there is no doubt they could be convicted.

    As for the morals of what they did, I'll leave that up to you.

    --
    Darthtuttle
    Thought Architect
    1. Re:The Law by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      The only thing even remotely close to grey that they did was the one time they guessed the subnet to try and connect. That was the only "questionable" activity.

      The rest is the equivalent to using a scanner to look for police/emergency/ham radio conversations. All they did was look for traffic and see if the networks were talking plain text and/or advertising SSID and/or requiring WEP.

  41. Read the Article by MrBlack · · Score: 2

    There are some tips there. Extreme Tech also ran an article a couple of days ago on the basics of securing wlans.Here is the link

  42. re: nosey twerps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it were legal to simply intercept and decode any photons that crossed your path, scanners would be allowed to receive cellphone conversations, it would be legal to decode directTV and other encrypted satellite broadcasts, and also to intercept various other communications methods... Monitoring is definitely NOT always legal in the US.

    -Daniel

  43. Question on home security by wareadams · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With all the stories on how bad WEP is and how most 802.11 networks aren't secured, I haven't found an answer to this question about securing a home 802.11 network (I'm not claiming to be an expert on this, so maybe this is a simple question).

    I'm assuming most home users don't have the equipment/skills to set up the access point outside of a firewall and use VPN/SSH. Given that, how risky is the following:

    1) Consumer base station (Airport)
    2) WEP password enabled
    3) Access restricted to specific MAC addresses (not possible w/Apple's configurator, but doable with the 3rd party Java version)
    4) Airport plugged into home LAN, no other machines running any servers or file sharing (none are Windows boxes, 2 OS X, 2 OS 9.2)

    I understand all the actual 802.11 traffic is basically open. I assume if the web site I'm using has effective encryption then that data is safe, but my POP3 password could be grabbed assuming it isn't encrypted by something other than WEP.

    What I'm wondering is would this setup effectively prevent someone from setting up a laptop outside my house and getting at the files on my LAN.

    This seems to me a reasonable set up for a home user, but if it leaves the family Quicken file vulnerable to any kid on the block then 802.11 seems to be destined to never be mainstream. If on the other hand a home user can put at least basic security in place (e.g. they can see your web pages but they can't trash your entire drive) then it has a chance.

    Thanks.

    1. Re:Question on home security by pryan · · Score: 1

      WEP, from current analysis, is a reasonable protection from causal and low-resource snooping. If someone with a laptop happens by your house and tries to get onto your network, then you're probably okay with WEP. However, if they have one of the tools being published to compromise your WEP keys and decides to park themselves within radio range and gather enough data to do this, then WEP would not be sufficient.

      Your physical mailbox and receipts thrown away in the garbage at stores expose your financial resources to a greater degree than copying Quicken files over your 802.11b network using WEP. Given that the scope of exposure is limited to local physicality, and thus not exposed to the script kiddies of the world, the chances of having a skilled and resourced attack against your network is much smaller than someone trying to carry out credit transactions from a receipt recovered from the trash of a store.

      In short, change your WEP keys every week or two and use a higher level cryptographic protocol when possible. I am not familiar with AppleTalk's cryptographic capabilities. If it provides some mechanisms for authentication and confidentiality, then I would feel okay with that setup.

      Also, monitor your network. Try to configure any resources accessible on your network to generate logs and review them periodically. Most of the time, attackers will spend quite a bit of time casing and probing your network before breaching integrity of your resources and data. Unfortunately, with WEP, a passive attack is usually sufficient. However, it does take time, so if you change your keys frequently enough, you're frustrating them to the point where all but the most persistent attackers will go away.

      Remember the cardinal rule of crime: attack the easy targets. As long as there are lots of 802.11b networks wide open, then your WEP enabled network is, in all likelyhood, going to be skipped over.

    2. Re:Question on home security by ckd · · Score: 2

      Apple's Airport Admin Utility will let you MAC-lock your Airport Base Station. Not that that gains you a whole lot of security since they can sniff your MAC address....

      My measures for securing my ABS:

      1. MAC address locking to my machines
      2. "Closed" network to avoid broadcasting SSID
      3. WEP turned on to keep out the anklebiters
      4. base station powered off when not in use

      The only one that I actually trust? The last one. However, given that there's a completely open 802.11 network somewhere fairly close (at least last time I popped up a wireless card to use my base station, I had two options and the other one didn't ask for a WEP password) I figure "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you." :)

      All of these measures are just to keep people from using my network connection for free, anyway. All my wireless traffic is either protected by SSH, SSL, or IPsec or it's stuff I don't care about ("ooh! look! I can watch him visit CNN's web site!").

  44. PPOE by joekool · · Score: 1

    I have no wireless network card, and no experience with PPPOE, but it does seem that it is exactly the type of thing to use to give your connection a bit of encryption. Of course that is assuming that it does some kind of decent encryption. if it doesn't, well it sounds like a 10 minute hack to solve the problem, but then again, it's not my area of expertise

    --

    Slackware: old school feel, new school gear.
    1. Re:PPOE by svindler · · Score: 1

      PPPoE does NOT add encryption to your traffic!
      It is only the the PPP password than can be encrypted and then again only if you are using chap, not pap to exchange the password.

    2. Re:PPOE by joekool · · Score: 1

      ah, then it is as I though, another case of me talking about something that I really don't know about! what I was tying to get at was that it would be nice if their was a way to use an application hat functions similar to the way ppoe works, but with encryption added. it has everything else you would want in such software, such as authentication, ease of use, etc.

      but then again I probably just don't know what I am talking about
      ;-}

      --

      Slackware: old school feel, new school gear.
  45. New Zealand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We tried this stunt from an office window in the centre of New Zealand's largest city, Auckland. Even with only the laptop's wireless card, we were able to tap into 13 networks, and gain external internet access through 10 of these. The main security risk this poses, is that most highspeed business connections here are MB capped, and therefore, any kid with a laptop and wireless LAN card can use any local retailer's high-speed connection to download his warez, or even worse, to carry out even more highly illegal activity and it is traced back to.. the kid? No. The retailer. And this was only with a 5 inch steel aerial! Imagine what we could tap into with the kind of reciever power used in that article. Ironically, one of the internal networks we were able to enter completely anonymously, was that of a major NZ bank. Cash anyone?

  46. So now what? by LinuxHam · · Score: 1

    I run a 56k Linux firewall with a crossover cable into a Linksys wireless cablemodem/dsl router, the BEWS4. Then I hang a 24-port hub off the hub port, with 3 Linux boxes, an NT server for work and my wife's 98 box. My Linksys doesn't support limiting wireless clients to a list of MAC addresses.

    I really only have one wireless client at this point, so perhaps I can limit the DHCP to one client and then use ipchains to restrict server access to the wired static range and the wireless dhcp "range of one". I can't go with static on the laptop b/c I use the wireless at 4 locations, all DHCP. Like hell I'm gonna change the IP address each place I attach to.

    Does anyone run kerberos at home? Seems like a real bitch to setup. Well, amanda just got around to my laptop so I'd better go...

    --
    Intelligent Life on Earth
  47. exploit this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    friggin code red boxes still running
    12.10.209.125
    12.81.64.148
    202.105.44.20
    12.4.104.2
    203.146.82.66
    have fun, tell them billy g said it's ok. he sold the bad software.

  48. Outbound only...? by doorbot.com · · Score: 2

    Regarding the "publicly accessible" wireless networks that are supposedly springing up, why not setup a nice transparent stateful firewall to only allow outgoing (and their resulting replies) connections? That way if your neighbor, or "the public" want to use your broadband connection, they can do so wirelessly, but only to make outbound connections. Granted, they could setup a VPN or some such to get a public IP for unrestricted inbound/outbound traffic. Just monitor the system and keep extensive connection logs (no, that's not packet sniffing logons and passwords ;)).

    Of course, why are you letting other people surf through your connection for free? Another issue, for another Slashdot article.

  49. Securing wireless networks with IPSec by John+Whorfin · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Ok, here it is in a nutshell. You can put an Open Source-based IPSec gateway immediatly upstream of your wireless AP... or better yet, simply put a wireless card in a Linux box... and secure your wireless with an IPSec tunnel.

    This protects your network, your traffic and if the hosts are configured properly... your clients. Way better than the mess that Nasa came up with.

    I am currently setting up a Linux/FreeSwan device for my employer's wireless and I have a similar OpenBSD IPSec setup at home.

    I also have a floppy-based Linux "access-point" that I'm trying to integrate FreeSwan with that will offer the same thing for anyone.

    Anyone interested?

  50. Not free per se by Sagarian · · Score: 1

    Given the basic nature of routing, the traffic on these 'free' networks, long-range traffic has to get to an upstream Internet pipe somehow (and the aggregate of traffic in a 'free' internet would be large getting to these pipes).

    Who would underwrite the cost of that upstream "last mile" to the Internet from the "free" wireless access net? I'd rather not have the sum total of several thousand "free" wireless access points flowing through my T-1 / T-3 / OC-whatever if the traffic is significant.

    The cost should ultimately drop with wireless, obviously, because the end users don't have to underwrite the large infrastructure creation cost required to support them.

    You'd expect this with existing shared technology like cable modems, but of course the economics of the monopoly apply here still (telecom regulation yeah right, at least today)

    But perhaps the bottleneck would shift from a last mile problem to a first mile problem (with which the average ISP deals quite nicely) in a wireless neighborhood. In cases where frequency of access and bandwidth consumption are low, I'd expect access prices to drop significantly, though.

    The shared-resource telecom concepts of Erlangian distribution, and so on become highly relevant again in such a scenario. Is this the PBX / concentrator again?

    Speaking of which, in the Boston area, if you have line-of-sight to the Prudential building (and who doesn't in mass of landfill), you can now get wireless (microwave?) 1 megabit guaranteed bandwidth for $300 a month.

    1. Re:Not free per se by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      The last mile as you put it can be anything from a dls / cable connection that homeowners / small businesses use to mindblowing capacities, but you still only get 10mb [ok 11 if you want to be picky]. So, theoretically, you could make allaowance for wireless network to your local community if that's the kinda business / person you are. :) The FAN is coming and it's going to be the wild west of the internet all over again.

      Pathetically anonymous but someone has my ip logged somewhere *grin*

  51. Re:Any How-to Doc on how to secure your wireless L by linerate · · Score: 1

    Firewall the wlan, punch holes for higher level security (pptp, ssh, ipsec, etc..).... good luck.

  52. The Right Way: Don't bother with wireless security by jurgen · · Score: 1

    How many times have we heard this now? This has been an old hat for well over a year. And what's more, even before WEP was shown to be TOTALLY broken a couple of months ago it was obvious that 802.11b security wasn't... even if you used encryption, with in an organization that's useless because there's no key management... you can't possibly think that a password that's stored on dozens to hundreds of laptops that are travelling all over, some percentage getting stolen as a matter of course, most of which can be regularly accessed innoculously by strangers, can be called "secure" in even the vaguest sense!

    The right way to do wireless is simple... DON'T Don't bother. Don't use /any/ security. And don't DON'T DON'T connect the wireless net to your organizational network... just connect it to the
    Internet and treat it as public internet access. Instead of asking "do we put wireless access on our network", ask "do we want to provide public wireless internet access throughout our buildings a few hundred feet beyond? And make your ESSID something like "yourname-public" so its obvious... visitors should be able to easily use it to! Why the hell not?

    You already have some way of accessing your organizational network or some of its services from the Internet, don't you? (If you don't you have security requirements that probably mean you REALLY can't use wireless.) Be it IPSec VPNs or SSh tunnels, or just SSL web/mail access, that's what you'll have to use even when you're using the wireless gateways right in your office.

    Of course you can set up some other level of IPSec tunnels /specifically/ for the wireless LAN, but I think that's stupid, anything you do might as well be the same for wireless/Internet access... it's exactly the same problem space. In either case you have a network you MUST treat as COMPLETELY UNTRUSTED.

    -j

  53. There's already a solution -- 802.1x by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    What always amazes me about these daily stories on the "insecurities" of 802.11b is that not a single person mentions that IEEE already has a solution -- 802.1x.

    Using 802.1x, a computer/user must authenticate to the access point through standard RADIUS/EAP mechanisms (e.g., smart card, certificate, MD5-based challenge response, etc.). If you are unable to authenticate, the access point (or wired Ethernet switch, for that matter -- this isn't 802.11b specific) will refuse to forward any of your packets to the network.

    There are also provisions in 802.1x to have the access point authenticate to the client, in order to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks, among other things.

    Furthermore, 802.1x provides means to give each user a different WEP key, and to cycle those keys at various intervals. This greatly reduces the exploitability of the cryptographic flaws in WEP. (These flaws should still be addressed, though.)

    Finally, 802.1x is already available today, in Windows XP.

  54. Re:PLEASE SUPPORT OPEN SOURCE GNUHAIKU! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You know, depending on how you pronounce goatse.cx, that could either be "goat sex", which is two syllables, or "goatse dot see ex", which is five. In the second case, which really makes a bit more sense considering that goatse.cx doesn't really spell goat sex, your haiku is all fucked up.

    Just fyi.

  55. securing wep somewhat without vpns by meridian · · Score: 1

    I believe cisco aironet is able to rotate keys if a radius server is available. You could make your rotation fo keys happen at a fairly short interval and give any wannabe snoopers a fairly annoying experience, possibly even rotating them before snoopers collect enough information to break any key you are using. not sure if any of the other 802.11b implementations allow for this. normally a session uses one key and will use the one key indefinatley.

    --
    meridian at tha.net
  56. Re:from the New York Times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Boy, you must have had a point there.

    Care to share with the rest of us?

  57. Re:Any How-to Doc on how to secure your wireless L by tagplazen · · Score: 1

    Thank you.

  58. Rotate the shield frequencies? by awilber · · Score: 1

    If it takes 100MB~1GB of packet data for airsnort to crack your 802.11 network, why not set up a cron job to telnet into your access point and change the access code after every 10MB, or so?

    Doesn't seem like the overhead would be that large...

  59. reducing broadcast range by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be nice if the access point software allowed us to reduce the power of transmissions so that it was effectively limited to the radius of our home. Has anybody tried to manually reduce the range by surrounding their access point with an interfering material (ex. putting it in a metal box) and then checking signal strength?

  60. This will result in another dumb law by eap · · Score: 2

    The net result of this insecurity will likely not be better security protocols, but rather another inane law restricting the right of people to use wireless devices.

    It happened with cellphones in the 90's, that's why it's now illegal to listen to cellular frequencies in the US.

    Just wait, it will happen.