Microsoft FrontPage License Prohibits Anti-Microsoft Speech

According to this story running at Info World, the license from FrontPage 2002 contains a clause that says 'You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or their products or services ...' An unfortunate clause that will prevent me from my long term plan of migrating Slashdot to Frontpage (cough). There's lots of other nastiness in this article too. Can anyone find that specific clause? Can anyone find the EULA itself? Update: 09/20 18:10 GMT by T : According to reader bteutsch "FWIW, the clause appears only in the EULA agreement for use of the FrontPage Logo, not with the product or server extensions license."

Comments

This will mean less FrontPage users

[epsalon]

Microsoft is actually contributing to standartization on the net, as less users will use FrontPage. Great!

Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

[Augusto]

They just seem to be getting more and more arrogant. Thankfully, I don't use Frontpage, but I've never seen a license for a tool that says you can't criticize the makers of the tool !!!

It's like putting a "license" around the use of a hammer saying you can't build a sign that protests the hammer's maker.

Incredible !

Re:Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

[Sir_Real]

I wouldn't worry about it, stuff like this wouldn't hold up more than a second under First Amendment scrutiny.


Oh, I know! I'm glad the First Amendment was there to save us from the DCMA! Can you IMAGINE the implications of THAT being passed?

Re:Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

[Reality Master 101]

Yes, unbelievable. Unbelievable that anyone would believe it. According to this page, you can't use the Frontpage logo on a site that disparage Microsoft.

Re:Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

[well_jung]

I wouldn't worry about it, stuff like this wouldn't hold up more than a second under First Amendment scrutiny.

I agree. But just to be sure, I donated my $300 tax refund to the EFF.

Re:Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

[Reality Master 101]

Correction: read this.

It's not apparent exactly what the restriction applies to, but it's not broad.

Re:Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

[DunbarTheInept]

Gee, can't they make up their minds? With Microsoft products, accurate references == disparaging comments.

Maybe a good thing?

[mjh]

IANAL, but isn't there something in contract law that says that if you put a clause in a contract that is illegal, then the contract is null and void on its face. For example, I can't put a clause in a contract that says that you will become my slave if you agree to the contract. Slavery is illegal and no contract is allowed to supercede that (AFAIK).

So the fact that this exists, does it not render the license restrictions that MS is putting into place null and void? In other words, has MS just ceded their rights to control Front Page?

(Please chill on the flames. If I knew what I was talking about I wouldn't have had to ask!)

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[Skyshadow]

I dunno, man.

I'd like to think you were right on this one, but you've got to remember that NDAs are apparently legal, so speech obviously isn't always gaurenteed.

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[M-G]

Most contracts have a severability clause in them that states that if any part of the contract is found to be invalid or illegal, it doesn't invalidate the rest of the contract.

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[Syberghost]

The word you need to look up is "severability".

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[JabberWokky]

NDAs are apparently legal

I wouldn't be so sure... I've heard they (and non-compete upon exiting a company and several other common contracts) are not very east to defend in court. YMMV, IANAL, etc...

--
Evan

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[Jerf]

'IANAL, but isn't there something in contract law that says that if you put a clause in a contract that is illegal, then the contract is null and void on its face. For example, I can't put a clause in a contract that says that you will become my slave if you agree to the contract. Slavery is illegal and no contract is allowed to supercede that (AFAIK).'

'So the fact that this exists, does it not render the license restrictions that MS is putting into place null and void? In other words, has MS just ceded their rights to control Front Page?'

IANAL, but you don't need to be a lawyer for this.

First, as one person pointed out, licenses invariably have clauses that say if one part is found invalid, then only that part is invalidated, not the whole thing. Second, even if what you said is true, then what is nullified is the license. That doesn't mean Microsoft has "ceded" their rights to FrontPage, it means that you no longer have the right to use it.

This is why contracts have those clauses. For any non-trivial contract, it would not be good that the whole contract was nullified for obvious reasons, for either side.

Finally, I am surprised this wasn't noticed in a reply, but in states where the UCITA or compatible varient has been passed, this clause is likely to be completely legal, merely a varient on the non-review clause.

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[zulux]

That doesn't mean Microsoft has "ceded" their rights to FrontPage; it means that you no longer have the right to use it.

You don't need a license to USE FrontPage - you only need a license to COPY FrontPage. Microsoft doesn't have a 'use-rights' on FrontPage, it has a copyright on FrontPage. Microsoft sells copies of FrontPage, and people who purchase them are allowed to use them. GM sells Corvettes - you get to use them, but you don't get to copy them without a license. (Corvettes are copyrighted and patented works). There is a small group of people who feel that because you don't run software off the CD-Rom, you need a license to copy it onto your hard-drive and a license to copy it the software into ram. These are the same people who think they can renounce their US citizenship and not pay the IRS it's due. The only way you can cede you right to use things you have purchased legally, is if you sign a contract (physically or digitally) or a nasty laws get passed.

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[NecroPuppy]

So no matter what the legalities, the end result will be less MS criticism on the Internet.

Unless someone takes the initiative and purposely creates such a site to draw a challange from MS. Then gets the ACLU, FSF, EFF, etc on thier side, and doesn't let MS drop the lawsuit.

Hmmm... Can you run FrontPage 2002 on a 98 box?

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[ajakk]

Actually, you are quite wrong. Microsoft does not sell you a copy of frontpage. Microsoft grants you a license to use a copy of Frontpage. Microsoft has the right to revoke your license of its use, and you can no longer use the product. Because of the nature of the license, Microsoft has much less legal liability in areas such as consumer defects.

The first paragraph of Microsoft's Fronpage EULA says, "This Software Product is licensed, not sold. "

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[zulux]

The first paragraph of Microsoft's Fronpage EULA says, "This Software Product is licensed, not sold. "

To be fair - the question of "if retail software is sold with an implicit license to use, or requires a license to be agreed to after the purchase" is a question that hasn't been decided by the courts. Currently, retail Software is treated like a CD, Video or Book - you get to use the copy they sold to you. You don't get to copy it because they have the copyright. Recently the BSA has been making the argument that EULA are real contracts with the argument that "Everybody does it, so it must be right." Only a court case, or law like the UCITA will decide this issue. Please read my following rebuttal with the consideration that i'm only correct if the court rules that retail software is like a CD, video or a book.

Microsoft would love for you to think that they are not selling you a product, but just try returning your product for a full refund under terms of their EULA, and they will tell you that you are stuck with it (Search for google for Windows Refund Day). They claim that you didn't 'license' the product from Microsoft and are hence entitled for a refund, but that you purchased it from the store.

Microsoft has very clever counsel - for example: if you read the text on the CD they - it says "Don't Make Illegal Copies of this Disk", note that it doesn't say, "Making Copies of this disk is illegal." They are very precice in their wording in order not to run afoul of the law. It is legal to make a backup of your CD.

The claim that "This software is licensed not sold" is vastly different than "Use of this software is illegal without agreeing to the supplemental EULA." The license they are referencing it their statement is the implicit license to use the software that you obtained by the retail purchase of the software, not the supplemental EULA. As for the "not sold" - They are correct, but somewhat misleading, in that they didn't sell you "FrontPage" - you would then have the copyright, they sold you a copy of FrontPage.

Again, untill the courts decide, it would be smart to treat EULA like they were legal and don't agree to any that are not reasonable, but don't depend on them to limit damages in software that you create and try to licence to your users with an click-tough(unsigned) EULA.

Re:Maybe a good thing?

[einhverfr]

Well, I think it is a good thing for other reasons-- credibility of your Microsoft-bashing site.

If Microsoft really wanted to, they would do better saying, "if you use our product, and you want to say bad things about is, you MUST use our logo so that people realize that you are just whining and really use all our products, loser!"

If you have a Microsoft-bashing site, what on earth are you doing writing it in FrontPage and using the logo? Who will take you seriously?

IANAL but..

[derrickh]

Is that legal? If I buy a Chevy, I'm allowed to paint 'Chevy Sucks' on it and drive it to the Chevy Sucks 2001 convention.

If I buy a pair of Nike shoes, I'm allowed to wear them while running in an 'Anti-Nike Slave Labor' 5k run/walk.

If I buy MSFP, then I can use it to create 'Frontpagesucks.com'.

D

Complete BS.

[Skyshadow]

Jesus, I wonder how long before this "feature" makes it into other MS products -- Internet Explorer anyone?

I can't believe that Microsoft [The remainder of this post has been sanitized by MS Internet Explorer. Please go back about your business, and remember that Microsoft is only trying to conduct legitimate, non-predatory business. You have been warned.]

Re:Complete BS.

[frknfrk]

should be fine. after all, it's not like there is a browser monopoly or anything... why shouldn't 99% of the people get their information gently sanitized by either MSIE or AOL?

-sam

Re:Complete BS.

[JabberWokky]

Odd how that happened. Oh, well... I'll just hit "Help|Report bug" and file a Konqueror bug report.

--
Evan

IANAL

[PenguinX]

However it is my understanding of the law that you can create a contract that has a clause in it that breaks the law - (the US Constitution in this case - you know free speech and all) and it just blows the entire contract out of the water.

Seems like a stupid move on the part of Microsoft IMHO.

Interesting experiment.

[Black Parrot]

If there's anyone here with that product and no great love for Microsoft, set up a "lauds" page that the average reader will immediately detect as being sarcastic (like the famous Micorsoft/Space Cadet page), but be careful to say nothing overtly critical. Then see whether they come after you.

I'd volunteer, but they haven't released the Linux version yet.

Re:Interesting experiment.

[FattMattP]

Got any links to this Space Cadet page?

Re:Interesting experiment.

[JabberWokky]

Not really worth it in my opinion, but for completeness's sake:

http://geraldholmes.freeyellow.com/whyMSrules.html

--
Evan

Re:Interesting experiment.

[Brazilian Geek]

Got any links to this Space Cadet page?

Here you go: Welcome to Gerald Holmes'es Why Micorsoft rules my Univrese .

Please beware of the incredibly annoying popups on the page - disable javascript in your browser, it'll make the page more enjoyable.

You don't buy FP2002

[wiredog]

You license it. The copy you're running belongs to Microsoft. Since they own it, they have a perfect right to limit the way you use it.

Which is why they love DMCA, UCITA, et. al. and why we despise those laws.

Re:You don't buy FP2002

[bnenning]

You license it. The copy you're running belongs to Microsoft.

That's what Microsoft would have you believe, but as far as I know this has never been tested in court. I fail to see how a non-negotiated EULA can retroactively alter the terms of an already completed sale.

That one's easy

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Okay, so use FrontPage to create your page's layout, write all the words in the page that don't refer to M$, M$NBC, M$N such as "the", "tarball" or "grandmother", then complete your page with VI or EMACS, which are pieces of software released under a non-M$-centric license.

Re:That one's easy

[Accipiter]

...then complete your page with VI or EMACS, which are pieces of software released under a non-M$-centric license.

Have you ever tried opening a frontpage-generated HTML file in a text editor? Bleedin' Christ, it's a damned mess.

It would just be easier to dump the shitty WYSIWYG editors and just write the site in plain-jane HTML.

If you standardize it, they will come. (AND they will be able to read it!)

Re:That one's easy

[scrytch]

It would just be easier to dump the shitty WYSIWYG editors and just write the site in plain-jane HTML.

I beg to differ -- DreamWeaver often produces prettier HTML than I could have produced myself. What's nice about it is that if you do decide to reformat it later, it doesn't touch your formatting when you edit it (unless you outright delete and replace an element). I find I get all my ALT tags in more reliably when I use DW too, because such properties are considered a property of the library object, not the particular instance of it.

FrontPage on the other hand, is a mess, and can't even manage to correctly balance its own autogenerated tags.

Re:That one's easy

[CrackElf]

"You may not use the Software in connection with any site"

IANAL, but it seems to me that you would still be in violation, even if you completed it with another editor. That would not alter the fact that the site would still be anti-ms.

Why would you expect otherwise?

[Grim Metamoderator]

It's a sensible idea, I think. Why would Microsoft allow its products to be used against them? It reminds me of Lenin's famous remark, "The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." Naturally, Microsoft not being stupid, they're not going to let you use their rope that way. Of course, most Slashdotters are against free-market capitalism, so I suppose it's understandable, in a pathetic sort of way, that this would be considered "newsworthy" around here.

This will be a pain for pro-microsoft sites also,

[bob_jordan]

Think about it. Your site has a review of windows XP and it finishes off with the conclusion that it is much better then 2000 and everyone should go out and upgrade from 2000.

Hey you just disparaged 2000 and broke your frontpage license agreement.

Bob.

Berserk all you want, MS.

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

It's been said before, and I suppose I'll end up having to say it this time.

The more MS squeezes, the more slips through their fingers.

Already, people are pretty much opting out of all this by continuing to run Windows 95 6 years after its release, and Office 97 4 years after its release. Many people have intimated that they'll hang onto 2000 as long as they can. If the longevity of previous MS OS's is any indicator, this may be five years or more.

And of course, there's always our favorite X-Factor, waiting in the wings to scoop up faithful even from MS's latest and greatest.

This effect becomes more obvious the more MS tightens the strings...

Re:Berserk all you want, MS.

[tswinzig]

It's been said before, and I suppose I'll end up having to say it this time.

The more MS squeezes, the more slips through their fingers.

Yeah, it's been said before, and it seems logical, but where is the marketshare to prove your point? Has Microsoft OS marketshare slipped? Or is it still in the area of 95%?

Re:Berserk all you want, MS.

[ceswiedler]

IMO, Windows 2000 is the best desktop operating system available. Everything I have seen or heard about XP leads me to believe that it is a piece of monopolistically hogtied shit. I will not upgrade if I have any say in the matter. I'm not fond of Linux desktops but I would go there before XP.

Re:Berserk all you want, MS.

[dragons_flight]

I would guess that the people using old software are rarely concerned with the liscensing and other MS tricks. Like most of my family, they probably simply don't need anything better right now. Win 95, Office 97 already have more features than your typical user needs and remain suitable for most of people's needs. As you might remember Win 3.1 was something of a pain, whereas 95 is managable for most people especially with a little practice.

One of MS's problems is that they want to sell products and retain market share, but you can't do that by asking hundreds of dollars for incremental upgrades (especially when the software the consumer has already does everything they think they want). It's "killer apps" and stuff that you just got to have that gets average people to go out and buy software.

I don't think XP is going to do it for MS, there are some interesting new features, but nothing that strikes me as something Joe Average will rush out to get. To my mind, the next big thing will require better broadband apps and broadband saturation. For instance, I'd be willing to pay for video conference hardware and software, if I knew more than 2 people who had that functionality in their home.

Time for another amendment...

[CokeBear]

The first amendment prevents the federal government from restricting speech. The 14th extended that restriction to the individual states. Time to extend again, to cover corporations.
Something along the lines of: "No corporation may violate any rights which the government is not allowed to violate."
(Me is not versed in Lawyerly ways, so there should probably be more to it than that)

Re:Time for another amendment...

[lemox]

Does anyone else notice the grim irony of someone babbling about "freedom" while simultaneously demanding more laws?

Re:Time for another amendment...

[jafac]

since it would be the government that would have to enforce that contract, then the government would be restricting the speech.

I don't know if it's legal or not from a DMCA standpoint - but it's certainly NOT ethical, from a humanity standpoint.

Re:Time for another amendment...

[scrytch]

Does anyone else notice the grim irony of someone babbling about "freedom" while simultaneously demanding more laws?

No kidding. Corporations are the creation of laws, and most of their power is gained from laws that give them that power. Why do we need to have laws on the books that give them power with one hand, then another that takes it away. Time to start erasing the laws that cancel each other out and make the lawyer mills actually work for their money.

Re:Time for another amendment...

[lemox]

Always take an extreme example to warp the views of who you are trying to disprove. This seems to be the nature of most "There should be a law..." type people (not saying you're one of them). My point is that laws should only be pursued when all other avenues of dealing with an issue have been pursued. I'm talking about knee-jerk "there should be a law!" statements just because the speaker doesn't agree with someone's course of action. Laws should be in place to keep us from killing each other, they should not be in place merely to advance one particular group's world-view.

Someone needs to test this!

[mjh]

Someone who actually uses Front Page needs to test this. They need to create a site that criticizes Microsoft, and loudly proclaims that the site uses Front Page. This someone has to have enough money to be able to defend themselves and then test this. This has *got* to be an unreasonable clause to put in a license agreement, and needs to be tested.

I officially un-volunteer! (Not enough $$)

This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONENTS

[rodbegbie]

This does not relate to documents edited with Front Page. It say that you are not allowed to use server-side elements such as the MSN MoneyCentral stock ticker on your website, if you are publishing anti-MS comments.

rOD.

um, no.

[mikeee]

IANAL, but...

The Constitution says that the Government can't pass laws impeding freedom of the press; this doesn't mean that they guarentee everyone the right to speak. If you sign a contract not to talk about X that's more-or-less binding.

Whether enforcing licenses which restrict press freedom could be held as violating the 1rst amendment is way unclear to me...

Re:um, no.

[aozilla]

The Constitution says that the Government can't pass laws impeding freedom of the press

Actually, the Constitution doesn't even say that. It says that congress shall make no law impeeding freedom of the press. You are right that it doesn't say "Microsoft shall make no law..." though.

Trump: Product (de)Activation

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

Who cares what the law says- MS is your master when it comes to these things, since they hold the remote killswitch on your OS. yay.

Smells like Slashdot spirit

[Reality Master 101]

According to this page, you can't use the Frontpage logo on a site that disparage Microsoft. Which seems pretty reasonable to me.

Good lord! Lies about Microsoft on Slashdot? Nah, couldn't be.

Re:Smells like Slashdot spirit

[Bazman]

Point 7 --

"7. You may not display the Logo on any site that disparages Microsoft or its products or services"

kinda makes it impossible to comply with point 4 --

"4. The Logo may be displayed only on Web pages that make accurate references to Microsoft."

Oops.

Re:Smells like Slashdot spirit

[Reality Master 101]

Actually, forget the above. I think I found where this came from. Take a look at this PDF that has the phrase. Unfortunately, the PDF reader sucks when it comes to selecting text. But I think this is the relevent part: "For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline compone nt, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component."

This section looks like it specifically about components that interface with MSNBC news sites or something like that. It's not clear exactly what this section is referring to.

In any case, it's not a broad "you can't create an anti-Microsoft web site with Frontpage".

Re:Smells like Slashdot spirit

[buss_error]

According to this page [microsoft.com], you can't use the Frontpage logo on a site that disparage Microsoft. Which seems pretty reasonable to me.

IANAL - Except that I seem to recall that you can use trademarks in product identification in critizism. So they can prohibit away, won't do any good. HOWEVER: Before I do this, I'd check it out with my own legal team. Nothing like trained attack begeals from MS to ruin your lunch hour. - IANAL

Re:Ha!

[ReelOddeeo]

Why does big corporations always want to curtail liberty? (1st pst?)

The question we should really be asking is: Is our corporations learning?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Show me where...

[The Bastard]

I'm no fan of Microsoft, but I reamed Foster in an e-mail for reporting this crap. Upon reading this the other day, I went to a co-worker who has FrontPage 2002 installed, and we both looked through the included on-line EULA. Damned if we could find any mention of this "prohibition".

So, show me where in the EULA this is stated. Are there multiple EULAs? Then which one takes precedence ("the last one? well, that wasn't the one I got when I bought it" concept)?

Damn it...THINK PEOPLE...investigate these things on your own and don't just knee-jerk a reaction because someone says something exists. Doesn't help perceptions much, especially if the liars/FUDers this time around are the open-source proponets....

Slashdot Censors Too

[SIGFPE]

If I say that slashdot is a load of old crap with contributions from a bunch of smelly spotty sex-starved geeks who think something like an operating system can actually be cool I'll get censored into oblivion by offended moderators pretty damn quickly. Here, watch:

<Ducks for cover>
Slashdot is a load of old crap with contributions from a bunch of smelly spotty sex-starved geeks who think something like an operating system can actually be cool
</Ducks for cover>

Re:Slashdot Censors Too

[sharkey]

Slashdot is a load of old crap with contributions from a bunch of smelly spotty sex-starved geeks who think something like an operating system can actually be cool

You can say this on /., and be thought funny. Just don't ask about Anne Tomlinson.

I don't see the problem.

[Colin Smith]

Only the people who want to use Microsoft software and agree to the license terms are bound by them.

It doesn't affect the rest of the world.
If you don't like the terms, don't use the software.

Re:I don't see the problem.

[dachshund]

Only the people who want to use Microsoft software and agree to the license terms are bound by them. It doesn't affect the rest of the world.

In a general sense, it does affect the rest of the world. I don't like the idea of corporations adding anti-speech clauses to their standard contracts. I sign dozens of contracts every month just to get by; everything from credit card slips to delivery receipts to click-throughs on web pages. Often, we don't read the fine print of these documents, and they're getting longer and more common.

So you don't use Microsoft products. Imagine if your credit card company/phone company/electric company/ISP added anti-speech clauses to their TOS. You may be one of those rare few who always reads the whole page before you sign, or doesn't rely on modern conveniences, but most people aren't like that. That's why we ought to be concerned about issues like this, even if we don't use this particular piece of software.

Re:When did...

[trongey]

Doesn't the US Constitution guarantee the right to say what you want?

Sure it does (mostly). But it doesn't guarantee the right to say it with MS FrontPage.

Try actually reading the document to see what it really says about your rights.

On a related topic: Has anyone ever noticed that the President is only given the power of supreme commander of the army, navy, and, sometimes, militia. The air force and marines are never mentioned in any articles or ammendments. Who's in charge of them?

Re:U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Well, the only way for Microsoft to enforce this is ... through the legal system. Congress makes the laws which allow enforcement of license agreements, after all.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[rodbegbie]

In the spirit of fighting FUD, here is the whole section of the EULA (emphasis added by myself):

2. FrontPage*
(*version corresponding to Office XP)

FrontPage web components. For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline compone nt, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component.

Installation and Use. You may install and use any number of copies of the Software on server computers to provide services as part of your web site on the Internet that you des ign with FrontPage and that is not a mobile wireless or interactive television site ("Your Web Site").

Restrictions. You may not edit or modify the Software in any manner whatsoever. You may not display any of the logos that appear in the Software in any manner that implies sponsorship, endorsement, or license of Your Web Site by the owners of such logos. If the Software contains any active links to other sites, you agree to maintain such active links and not redirect or modify them. You may not market, distribute, sublicense, lease or rent the Software on a stand- alone basis. You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia or their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state, federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred, or pornography. You shall not convert the news headlines in the MSNBC component into an audio format for redistribution to audio users. You agree to immediately remove the Software from Your Web Site if you do not abide by any of these restrictions after notice.

rOD.

Abuse of Property Rights

[Compulawyer]

As an intellectual property attorney, I can only say that this is the most disgusting and repugnant use of intellectual property rights I have ever seen.

Re:Abuse of Property Rights

[Compulawyer]

As an Anonymous Coward, I can see that you have done NO investigation of your comments or you would have found out that I DID investigate this. You also would have found out that I share the views of many attorneys: that is is unethical to place clauses in contracts that are unenforceable or that the client has no intention of enforcing merely because the client hopes for collateral effects, i.e., the mere presence of the words in the contract implies that it is proper for those words to be there.

In addition, it is absolutely absurd for a company to sell a product and then try to control how it is used (assuming of course it is not being used in a dangerous fashion - case in point: warnings about removing safety devices from power tools, etc.). In my view as an intellectual property attorney, a software engineer, and a consumer, I think that if a company wants to avoid criticism about its products, then it should make good products. It is irrelevant that those products happen to be intangible and protected by IP rights.

You should hope you never get into an IP battle - people who steal IP are thieves, plain and simple. Same as a pursesnatcher, just with a bigger purse.

EPI DVD

[ocie]

I wonder if Lucas is considering a similar clause on the upcomming DVD.

Re:U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

[jd]

Unfortunately, the US constitution only governs the Government. This clause is entirely in the private sector, would be prosecuted using civil law rather than federal law, and would therefore (to my untutored, but cynical eye) seem to be immune to Constitutional safeguards.

EULAs and the First Amendment

[Corgha]

I wouldn't worry about it, stuff like this wouldn't hold up more than a second under First Amendment scrutiny.

uhhh:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Microsoft != Congress
(...last I checked, anyway. If that changes, time to fall on my sword.)

Really, the EULA is a voluntarily entered contract between the end user and Microsoft, and is not to be confused with a law passed by Congress. One might compare this clause of the agreement to an NDA, in that both place restraint upon your speech, but neither is unconstitutional.

The defense against this kind of practice is not to complain and wave the First Amendment, but to remove Microsoft from the position that allows them to make these demands.

Re:EULAs and the First Amendment

[Alex Belits]

Contracts are enforced by government.

Re:EULAs and the First Amendment

[Gleef]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, the below is the personal opinion of a layman, and is not legal advice.

I agree that Microsoft != Congress, and it is perfectly legal for a contract to include terms restricting behavior in a way that would be unconstitutional were it a law produced by Congress. It happens all the time, and the courts uphold such contracts.

On the other hand, I would argue that an EULA is not a voluntarily entered contract. Valuable consideration has changed hands (i.e. you've paid for the software) before any terms of the contract are even revealed. There certainly is no opportunity to negotiate terms. There is no signature indicating assent.

In the FrontPage 2002 packaging I've seen, there is not even a EULA envelope around the software. The license document is sandwitched between other pieces of paper. You can literally install the software without even seeing that there is a license document in the box. I do not see how any terms on such a license could possibly be a "voluntarily entered contract".

Re:EULAs and the First Amendment

[Herschel Cohen]

If you cannot read the contract until you have purchased the product and upon breaking the seal you and you lose your right to return the product - how is that voluntary? Moreover, did you ever see a case where the power was considered so disproportional that this sort of contract was thrown out? Well GM has lost cases based on that legal tenet. However, given the current composition of much of the federal judiciary I would not bet the farm on its immediate help.

Nonetheless, Microsoft has been labelled a monopolist using illegal business practices. You might wish to quibble and say it's not over having not seen a Supreme Court decision. But you should notice that they even pushed a more friendly applet court to issue an unanimous decision stating MS did not understand the conclusions the court had made.

Perhaps I am an optimist, which few people accuse me of being in person, but like all powers counter forces arise and MS may meet its match soon.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball

[Ukab the Great]

I know I've seen the Windows XP license somewhere before.

http://www.happyfunball.com/hfb.html

Re:When did...

[ZaMoose]

Air Force grew out of the Army Air Corps after WWII and the Marines are officially a subset of the Navy, so the President is officially CIC of those branches as well.

Code snippet:

[Mr_Icon]

if (IsInOneSentence("Microsoft", "sucks")){
throwFits();
popupEula();
lockComputer();
notifyAuthorities();
showBillWavingHisFingerAndSaying("Naughty Boy!");
}

on the other hand. . .

[jafac]

if you're out there disparaging Microsoft software and services, and you're USING them, then that's pretty hypocritical, and you should switch to vi/Linux/Apache.

Right?

I mean, doing that, and enforcing a license like that, are roughly ethically equivalent things.

Re:on the other hand. . .

[sammy baby]

if you're out there disparaging Microsoft software and services, and you're USING them, then that's pretty hypocritical, and you should switch to vi/Linux/Apache.

So, I shouldn't write a blog entry that says, "Jesus, I'm stuck here using vi. I hate vi,"?

Or use Frontpage 2000 to write an article critical of Microsoft's OEM licensing practices?

Or - extending the analogy a bit - use MS Word to write a negative review of Asheron's Call?

Come to think of it, I'm already on shaky ground. I'm posting that this policy is bullshit using MSIE!

(Oh, for the record - I dig vi.)

Re:on the other hand. . .

[jafac]

but that's different. It's open source. if you don't like vi. . . fix it. :)

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[nhavar]

mod this up

So?

[0xdeadbeef]

No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to license this software. If you don't like it, buy something else.

Get the state to pass a law

[browser_war_pow]

Get your state to pass a law voiding such contracts. Microsoft relies on contract law, a state legal system. If the state code says: "The liberties established in the US Constitution shall apply in all contractual relationships; no party shall abridge or void these rights. Any contract which does the preceding shall be invalid. In the event of intellectual property contracts violating this statute, the intellectual property shall be covered under the sections of the state code regarding sale of non-intellectual property to consumers and the property shall be regarded as a physical commodity bought and sold rather than a good licensed or leased." then there is nothing MSFT can do about it.

Re:Get the state to pass a law

[scrytch]

There doesn't need to be any such law any more than there needs to be a law saying the law must be obeyed. The constitution by definition trumps contract law ... hell, just plain federal law does, as can be seen by many contracts that were modified when they were found to be discriminatory (such as affirmative-action influenced public works contracts). However, invalidating sections of a contract still doesn't invalidate the whole thing.

Re:Get the state to pass a law

[jonnythan]

The Constitution enumerates the powers of the government. The Bill of Rights lists things the _government_ cannot do. It has nothing to do with corporations. The government can't prohibit you from free speech on the land it owns, but any entity can prohibit you from free speech on the land _it_ owns.

Re:Get the state to pass a law

[Bastian]

I'm not so sure that's a good thing. . .
IANAL, but to me, it would seem that it would make it illegal to have employees sign non-disclosure agreements which, though they have been used for purposes I don't like (think: 80586 & probe mode), I can also see where it may be useful. If companies can't keep their employees from releasing trade secrets, they might be less inclined to develop new technologies. Same for other contracts ensuring peoples' privacy.

Re:How do they get away with this?

[jafac]

. . .yeah, if your car rusts out in two years, smokes, and the muffler's dragging, then you're not permitted to drive it in public - so that everyone can see what a piece of crap a 2 year old Ford/Chevy/Dodge is.

Re:U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

[Salsaman]

Remember the Golden Rule:

"He who has the gold makes the rules"

Re:You still have the freedom to choose...

[wltack]

Call me a quibbler, but it seems to me that the rights granted by the US Constitution are meant to inhere to humans, not pretend-people like Microsoft, Inc. Grrr.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[iceT]

Oh, well, that's OK then.

!?!?!?!?!!

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[GypC]

I don't know if you've noticed, but there is a huge number of network administrators and PHBs who will run all Microsoft shops no matter what happens... I work in such a shop. It is downright sickening.

Re:Someone needs to test this! NOT

[ReelOddeeo]

What will testing it accomplish?

Either the court will throw it out or uphold it. Examine each possibility for a moment.

What is the end result? Even if this licensing provision is thrown out, an MS critic (or several) have spent millions of dollars and their time in litigation. An ingenious way to drain resources from your enemy. [The Borg weapon seems to be designed merely to drain the shields.]

OTOH, if the licensing is upheld, it may mean that copyright law needs to be modified to include features that recognize licenses like this.

Lawsuit

[supabeast!]

This prompts a lawsuit that would probably fail, but would bring a huge amount of attention to the problematic liscences arising in the software industry, especially from Microsoft.

We need to sue the US Government. A suit should be filed against the US Government for violating the first amendment by requiring government employees to use Microsoft software. Crazy, somewhat frivilous, and doomed to fail, but if the media would pick it up it might work out.

Of course, no lawyer would be crazy enough to take the case, and I can't pay for one, but this could definately be a cool way to let the public realize what kind of thing comes up in those licenses that they do not read.

Re:Slashdot editors

[RedX]

should be using FrontPage. I hear it comes with a nifty grammer and spell checker.

Hopefully those editors that you disparage will also allow *some* Slashdot posters to use those facilities to prevent people from confusing the word grammar with some town in Indiana

Whew!

[rnturn]

``And [sic] unfortunate clause that will prevent me from my long term plan of migrating Slashdot to Frontpage (cough).''

God bless Microsoft for that, as that migration would surely be a sign that the End of Days were upon us.

How about IIS server components?

[mblase]

Will I soon be prohibited from posting anti-MS information on sites that use IIS? How about Web servers that use Windows? If they can put this into a license legally, can they also prevent me from using IE to post anti-MS speech or Outlook to e-mail it?

No, seriously, The clause for those actions wouldn't have to be much different from this one, if you read how it's written.

X-Factor?

[flimflam]

Hmmm... is that LinuX (with X-Windows), or is it Mac OS X? (I guess it couldn't be Windows XP)...

Re:Give it a rest

[Luminous]

Boy, you've missed the boat. Does Ford make me sign an agreement that I won't put anti-Ford bumper stickers on the truck I just bought from them?

If Microsoft was so concerned about what their product was used for, then why don't they have provisions against using it to create porn or warez sites? Nope, clearly some MS exec bristled at the idea of an MS product being used to slam MS. Now, I can't wait until I write up my draft copy of how much this license agreement sucks using MS-Word before they tell me what I can and cannot say using that program.

Infighting at Microsoft Inc.?

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

My current theory is that Microsoft, as a whole, doesn't really push stuff like this. My theory is that it's SPECIFICALLY the software divisions that are desparately trying to justify their budgets to the corporation as a whole (who, from what I've heard, makes much more money as an investment bank than as a software company). As their software slowly dwindles from competition, they take more and more desperate measures to try to prop up their short-term income figures and continue their budgets and salaries.

My optimistic prediction is that sometime in the future (I have no idea how many years this would take, but...) the software division will be scaled back quite a bit in Microsoft Inc as a whole, and poor Mr. Ballmer will have to dance for his wealth in a different context.

Microsoft will likely stay wealthy and powerful, but no longer through client-side software at some point.

My crackpot theory, anyway.

Civil Rights Lawsuit?

[Alien54]

We need a couple of anti Microsoft free speech sites built using front page, just so that we can have a class action suit against Microsoft for violation of our civil rights.

Maybe we should just sue anyhow.

And they wonder why people don't like them

Re:Civil Rights Lawsuit?

[cavemanf16]

boycottxp.com probably fits the bill on what you're talking about.

Seriously, since when are you allowed to rewrite the Constitution with rules defined in your contract? Wouldn't this make the EULA void and null anyways since it circumvents you're Constitutional rights? IANAL so I really don't know the legal standings there, but I think people will be able to quickly realize sites like boycottxp.com are not backed by Microcrap.

Examples:

[mblase]

1. You may not disparage Microsoft or any of its products in your use of Microsoft product box shots.

If you use any of the Character Animation Data and Image Files, you agree to...not use the Character Animation Data and Image Files to disparage Microsoft, its products or services or for promotional goods or for products which, in Microsoft's sole judgment, may diminish or otherwise damage Microsoft's goodwill in the SOFTWARE PRODUCT....

Re:Ha!

[Alex Belits]

Why does big corporations always want to curtail liberty? (1st pst?)

Because after indoctrinating the American society to think that everyone must accumulate money, they are going after their real goal, that is infinitely more valuable than money.

Power.

So what?

[Mr_Silver]

Okay, i'll stick my neck out here.

So what? So what if it says you can't say nasty things about Microsoft? So what if it says that when you use it you have to utter a praise to Bill Gates before you start? So what if it says you must not use it to provide a platform for free software?

Whenever someone bitches about the GPL and how it doesn't allow companies to take the code and use it in their own propriatory products they're almost deafened by the chant of people shouting "if you don't like the licence, don't use the code"

Same here. Quite frankly I think they can pretty much put whatever they want in it (provided its legal). If I don't like what they want me to agree to, then i won't use it.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[interiot]

What about community sites that allow user posting? If the admin doesn't wish to read every single post to be able to remove all disparaging remarks about Microsoft, then they can't use FrontPage Web components anywhere on that site?

MS doesn't care about us.

[scott1853]

It's true, MS doesn't care about the slashdot community. They don't care about the people that know that what they do is wrong. Because we are not only a minority, but we don't spend that much (if anything) on MS software. We're basically nothing to MS's bottom line. So, sadly enough, complaining on Slashdot won't hurt them.

You want to get back at MS? Make open source software better than MS's. Now when I say that I don't simply mean make it more secure or stable, which is what most oss zealots seem to hear. I mean, make it more secure & stable PLUS faster, more flexible, and have a nicer, easier to use interface. Security and stability alone will not win any battles. The latter are just as important, if not more important in the eyes of the average user.

The obvious implication, of course . . .

[hawk]

>Yes, exactly. And note that in the text of the license, it doesn't
>exclude only sites that disparage MS, but also sites that contain
>racist content, pornography, etc, etc.

is that microsoft is classifying itself in the same category as hate speech and pornography.

o.b. gratutitious recursive acronym-like stuff: Does this mean that publishing this portion of the license violates the license???

:)

hawk

Re:Now that is Funny - but take it further

[Tackhead]

> Run a pirated copy of FrontPage to create an MS-Bashing page to be served on a pirated copy of IIS running on a pirated copy of Win2K, just to violate as many licenses as possible!

Write a variant of Nimda that, instead of using IIS to serve the .eml file to more victims, creates a uses IIS to display the Frontpage logo alongside a picture of Bill Gates buggering a goat.

"This is your web content. This is your web content on Frontpage. Any questions?"

For bonus points, have the hijacked server mail the BSA goons and/or the piracy hotline @microsoft.com, with a message saying "Suspected license violation - web site created by Frontpage makes disparaging comments about Microsoft products".

Re:Nyah!

[ebh]

Are we saying that Microsoft is a special large organization that should have *MORE* power than the government?

Depends on what you mean by "more". If you're asking whether corporations should be above the law, then no. If you're asking whether corporations should have broader powers over their day-to-day operations than governments have over them, then yes. Otherwise all the corporate intervention in our lives (like repressive EULAs) will be replaced by equally repressive government intrusion, with the big difference that under corporations you can vote with your feet more easily than you can with governments.

--
All your Qa'eda are belong to US.

Re:That's the last straw, get rid of EULAs

[saider]

So stop buying software with unfriendly licenses. End of problem.

Have fun making this unenforcable!

[Bonker]

Heh, Gatesco's army of trained attack lawyers outta have fun scanning geocities and tripod anti-MS pages for 'generator = "MS Frontpage"' meta tags.

BUT... we should remember data on the web is always mutable. I understand that there are Apache mods which will appened information to any document served, letting a free hosting provider 'add' banners to any given webpage for example. It wouldn't be any trick at all to add code to Apache or any other server software that would add the formentioned meta tag to every document served from a high-traffic site such as /.

We all know that ever last bit of /. is generated on Linux, Taco. How 'bout giving the MSies something to froth about and have Apache or Slash add the tag?

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[nhavar]

The misinformed article is probably talking about either a specific componenent and content or about the logo program. I dislike reporters who report "a reader informed me" as FACT. If a reader informs you then research it and post it as fact and not as rumor. MS is just protecting it's rights of trademark and copyright, and while most people here don't agree that anyone should have those rights they do still exist. Note that there are laws that allow criticism and sarcasm about a company, person, government, or product. This allows for reviews and parody, which differ from disparagement. Disparage is primarily to lower in rank or character using words that cause harm or resentment. Therefore MS is attempting to reduce the number of people using it's logo/content/product to spread discontent about it's product.

I don't see any harm done.

The Frontpage 2002 EULA (in it's entirety):

END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE. IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This Microsoft End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you (either an individual person or a single legal entity, who will be referred to in this EULA as "You") and Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software product that accompanies this EULA, including any associated media, printed materials and electronic documentation (the "Software Product"). The Software Product also includes any software updates, add-on components, web services and/or supplements that Microsoft may provide to You or make available to You after the date You obtain Your initial copy of the Software Product to the extent that such items are not accompanied by a separate license agreement or terms of use. By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise using the Software Product, You agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If You do not agree to the terms of this EULA, do not install, access or use the Software Product; instead, You should return it to Your place of purchase for a full refund. SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE The Software Product is protected by intellectual property laws and treaties. The Software Product is licensed, not sold. 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This Section of the EULA describes Your general rights to install and use the Software Product The license rights described in this Section are subject to all other terms and conditions of this EULA. General License Grant to Install and Use Software Product. You may install and use one copy of the Software Product on a single computer, device, workstation, terminal, or other digital electronic or analog device ("Device"). You may make a second copy of the Software Product and install it on a portable Device for the exclusive use of the person who is the primary user of the first copy of the Software Product. A license for the Software Product may not be shared. Alternative License Grant for Storage/Network Use. As an alternative to the rights granted in the previous section, You may install a copy of the Software Product on one storage Device, such as a network server, and allow individuals within Your business or enterprise to access and use the Software Product from other Devices over a private network, provided that You acquire and dedicate a license for the storage Device upon which the Software Product is installed and each separate Device from which the Software Product is accessed and used. A license for the Software Product may not be used concurrently on different Devices. General License Grant to Install and Use Subscription Product. The following licensing terms apply to You instead of the license grants in the previous two paragraphs if You licensed a subscription-based Software Product (a "Subscription Product"). You may install one copy of the Subscription Product on a single Device and use the Subscription Product for the term of Your subscription. You may also exercise the additional license rights described in the paragraphs below, but only for the term of Your subscription. The initial subscription period begins on the date You first activate Your copy of the Subscription Product and ends three hundred and sixty five (365) days thereafter. You cannot use the Subscription Product after Your subscription expires unless You renew or extend Your subscription. By renewing or extending Your subscription, You will be entitled to continue using the Subscription Product for a specified period of time beyond the date when Your previous subscription would have otherwise ended. All the terms and conditions of this EULA will continue to apply to Your use of the Subscription Product during any subsequent renewal periods unless otherwise specified. After the expiration of Your subscription, You can continue to open, view and print any documents You created with the Subscription Product. Additional License Grant for Media Elements. The Software Product may include certain photographs, clip art, animations, sounds, music and video clips (together "Media Elements"). If so, the following terms describe Your rights to the Media Elements: o Except as specified in the next Section, You may use, copy and modify the Media Elements and distribute copies of the Media Elements, along with Your modifications, as part of Your software product(s) and service(s), including Your web site(s). o You are not licensed to do any of the following: o You may not sell, license or distribute copies of the Media Elements on a stand-alone basis or as part of any collection, product or service where the primary value of the product or service are the Media Elements. o You may not use or distribute any of the Media Elements that include representations of identifiable individuals, governments, logos, initials, emblems, trademarks, or entities for any commercial purposes or to express or imply any endorsement or association with any product, service, entity, or activity. o You may not create obscene or scandalous works, as defined by federal law at the time the work is created, using the Media Elements. o You must indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorneys' fees, that arise from or result from the use or distribution of Media Elements as modified by You. o You must include a valid copyright notice on Your products and services that include copies of the Media Elements. o You may not permit third parties to distribute copies of the Media Elements except as part of Your product or service. Additional License Grant for SharePoint Team Services. The Software Product may contain a copy of the Sharepoint Team Services. If so, You may install one copy of such software on one Device and allow an unlimited number of individuals within Your business or enterprise to access and use the Sharepoint Team Services from other Devices provided that You acquire and dedicate a license to the Software Product for the Device upon which the Sharepoint Team Services are installed. Reservation of Rights. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Microsoft. 2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS. Academic Edition Software. If the Software Product is identified as "Academic Edition" or "AE," You must be a "Qualified Educational User" to use the Software Product. If You are not a Qualified Educational User, You have no rights under this EULA. To determine whether You are a Qualified Educational User, please contact the Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399 or the Microsoft subsidiary serving Your country. Mandatory Activation. You may not be able to exercise Your rights to the Software Product under this EULA after a finite number of product launches unless You activate Your copy of the Software Product in the manner described during the launch sequence. Copy Protection. The Software Product may include copy protection technology to prevent the unauthorized copying of the Software Product or may require original media for use of the Software Product on the Device. It is illegal to make unauthorized copies of the Software Product or to circumvent any copy protection technology included in the Software Product. Not for Resale Software. If the Software Product is labeled "Not For Resale" or "NFR," then, notwithstanding other sections of this EULA, Your use of the Software Product is limited to use for demonstration, test, or evaluation purposes and You may not resell, or otherwise transfer for value, the Software Product. Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software Product, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation. Separation of Component Parts. The Software Product is licensed as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use on more than one Device unless expressly permitted by this EULA. Trademarks. This EULA does not grant You any rights in connection with any trademarks or service marks of Microsoft. No rental, leasing or commercial hosting. You may not rent, lease, lend or provide commercial hosting services to third parties with the Software Product. Support Services. Microsoft may provide You with support services related to the Software Product ("Support Services"). Use of Support Services is governed by the Microsoft policies and programs described in the user manual, in "online" documentation, or in other Microsoft-provided materials. Any supplemental software code provided to You as part of the Support Services are considered part of the Software Product and subject to the terms and conditions of this EULA. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may use technical information You provide to Microsoft as part of the Support Services for its business purposes, including for product support and development. Microsoft will not utilize such technical information in a form that personally identifies You. Software Transfer. Except as specified in this Section, the initial licensee of the Software Product may make a one-time permanent transfer of this EULA and Software Product only directly to an end user. This transfer must include all of the Software Product (including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity). Such transfer may not be by way of consignment or any other indirect transfer. The transferee of such one-time transfer must agree to comply with the terms of this EULA, including the obligation not to further transfer this EULA and Software Product. Subscription Products are non-transferable. Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may terminate this EULA if You fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this EULA. In such event, You must destroy all copies of the Software Product and all of its component parts. 3. UPGRADES. Standard Software Product. If the Software Product is labeled as an upgrade, You must be properly licensed to use a product identified by Microsoft as being eligible for the upgrade in order to use the Software Product. A Software Product labeled as an upgrade replaces or supplements (and may disable) the product that formed the basis for Your eligibility for the upgrade. You may use the resulting upgraded product only in accordance with the terms of this EULA. If the Software Product is an upgrade of a component of a package of software programs that You licensed as a single product, the Software Product may be used and transferred only as part of that single product package and may not be separated for use on more than one Device. Subscription Based Software Product. The following terms apply to You instead of the terms in the previous paragraph if You licensed a Subscription Product. If Microsoft releases any upgrades or new versions of the Subscription Product during the term of Your subscription, You will be entitled to receive a copy of such upgrade(s) or new version(s) at no additional cost, except for any applicable connection charges, taxes, duties and shipping costs if You select fulfillment by mail. Such upgrades shall be considered part of the Subscription Product and subject to all of the terms and conditions of this EULA unless otherwise indicated in any license agreement that accompanies such upgrade or new version. 4. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. All title and intellectual property rights in and to the Software Product (including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations, video, audio, music, text, and "applets" incorporated into the Software Product), the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the Software Product are owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. All title and intellectual property rights in and to the content that is not contained in the Software Product, but may be accessed through use of the Software Product, is the property of the respective content owners and may be protected by applicable copyright or other intellectual property laws and treaties. This EULA grants You no rights to use such content. If this Software Product contains documentation that is provided only in electronic form, you may print one copy of such electronic documentation. You may not copy the printed materials accompanying the Software Product. 5. BACKUP COPY. After installation of one copy of the Software Product pursuant to this EULA, you may keep the original media on which the Software Product was provided by Microsoft solely for backup or archival purposes. If the original media is required to use the Software Product on the Device, you may make one copy of the Software Product solely for backup or archival purposes. Except as expressly provided in this EULA, you may not otherwise make copies of the Software Product or the printed materials accompanying the Software Product. 6. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All Software Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial license rights and restrictions described elsewhere herein. All Software Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with RESTRICTED RIGHTS as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988), as applicable. 7. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge that the Software Product is of U.S. origin. You agree to comply with all applicable international and national laws that apply to the Software Product, including the U.S. Export Administration Regulations, as well as end-user, end-use and destination restrictions issued by U.S. and other governments. For additional information, see http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/. 8. APPLICABLE LAW. If you acquired this Software Product in the United States, this EULA is governed by the laws of the State of Washington. If you acquired this Software Product in Canada, unless expressly prohibited by local law, this EULA is governed by the laws in force in the Province of Ontario, Canada; and, in respect of any dispute which may arise hereunder, you consent to the jurisdiction of the federal and provincial courts sitting in Toronto, Ontario. If this Software Product was acquired outside the United States, then local law may apply. Should you have any questions concerning this EULA, or if you desire to contact Microsoft for any reason, please contact the Microsoft subsidiary serving your country, or write: Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399. 9. LIMITED WARRANTY LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS ACQUIRED IN THE US AND CANADA. Microsoft warrants that the SOFTWARE PRODUCT will perform substantially in accordance with the accompanying materials for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of receipt. If an implied warranty or condition is created by your state/jurisdiction and federal or state/provincial law prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an implied warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS TO DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE PERIOD OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY DAYS). AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED AFTER THE NINETY (90) DAY PERIOD, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty or condition lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. Any supplements or updates to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, including without limitation, any (if any) service packs or hot fixes provided to you after the expiration of the ninety (90) day Limited Warranty period are not covered by any warranty or condition, express, implied or statutory. LIMITATION ON REMEDIES; NO CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES. Your exclusive remedy for any breach of this Limited Warranty is as set forth below. Except for any refund elected by Microsoft, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, if the Software Product does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty, and, to the maximum extent allowed by applicable law, even if any remedy fails of its essential purpose. The terms of Section 11 below ("Exclusion of Incidental, Consequential and Certain Other Damages") are also incorporated into this Limited Warranty. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. This Limited Warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have others which vary from state/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction. YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY. Microsoft's and its suppliers' entire liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option from time to time exercised subject to applicable law, (a) return of the price paid (if any) for the Software Product, or (b) repair or replacement of the Software Product, that does not meet this Limited Warranty and that is returned to Microsoft with a copy of your receipt. You will receive the remedy elected by Microsoft without charge, except that you are responsible for any expenses you may incur (e.g. cost of shipping the Software Product to Microsoft). This Limited Warranty is void if failure of the Software Product has resulted from accident, abuse, misapplication, abnormal use or a virus. Any replacement Software Product will be warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days, whichever is longer. Outside the United States or Canada, neither these remedies nor any product support services offered by Microsoft are available without proof of purchase from an authorized international source. To exercise your remedy, contact: Microsoft, Attn. Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, or the Microsoft subsidiary serving your country. LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS ACQUIRED OUTSIDE THE US AND CANADA. FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTIES AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS PERTAINING TO YOUR PARTICULAR JURISDICTION, PLEASE REFER TO YOUR WARRANTY BOOKLET INCLUDED WITH THIS PACKAGE OR PROVIDED WITH THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT PRINTED MATERIALS. 10. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. THE LIMITED WARRANTY THAT APPEARS ABOVE IS THE ONLY EXPRESS WARRANTY MADE TO YOU AND IS PROVIDED IN LIEU OF ANY OTHER EXPRESS WARRANTIES (IF ANY) CREATED BY ANY DOCUMENTATION OR PACKAGING. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS PROVIDE THE SOFTWARE AND SUPPORT SERVICES (IF ANY) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL OTHER WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY (IF ANY) IMPLIED WARRANTIES, DUTIES OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OF ACCURACY OR COMPLETENESS OR RESPONSES, OF RESULTS, OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT, OF LACK OF VIRUSES AND OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE, ALL WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE, AND THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE. 11. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL INJURY, FOR LOSS OF PRIVACY, FOR FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH OR OF REASONABLE CARE, FOR NEGLIGENCE, AND FOR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF THE FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT OR BREACH OF WARRANTY OF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER, AND EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. 12. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY DAMAGES THAT YOU MIGHT INCUR FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ALL DAMAGES REFERENCED ABOVE AND ALL DIRECT OR GENERAL DAMAGES), THE ENTIRE LIABILITY OF MICROSOFT AND ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ALL OF THE FOREGOING (EXCEPT FOR ANY REMEDY OF REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT ELECTED BY MICROSOFT WITH RESPECT TO ANY BREACH OF THE LIMITED WARRANTY) SHAL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE OR U.S. $5.00. THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS (INCLUDING SECTIONS 7, 8, AND 9 ABOVE) SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. 13. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This EULA (including any addendum or amendment to this EULA which is included with the Software Product) is the entire agreement between you and Microsoft relating to the Software Product and the support services (if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous oral or written communications, proposals and representations with respect to the Software Product or any other subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent the terms of any Microsoft policies or programs for support services conflict with the terms of this EULA, the terms of this EULA shall control. Si vous avez acquis votre produit Microsoft au CANADA, la garantie limitée suivante vous concerne : GARANTIE LIMITÉE Microsoft garantit que le Produit fonctionnera conformément aux documents inclus pendant une période de 90 jours suivant la date de réception. Si une garantie ou condition implicite est créée par votre État ou votre territoire et qu'une loi fédérale ou provinciale ou État en interdit le déni, vous jouissez également d'une garantie ou condition implicite, MAIS UNIQUEMENT POUR LES DÉFAUTS DÉCOUVERTS DURANT LA PÉRIODE DE LA PRÉSENTE GARANTIE LIMITÉE (QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS). IL N'Y A AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT QUANT AUX DÉFAUTS DÉCOUVERTS APRÈS CETTE PÉRIODE DE QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS. Certains États ou territoires ne permettent pas de limiter la durée d'une garantie ou condition implicite de sorte que la limitation cidessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous. Tous les suppléments ou toutes les mises à jour relatifs au Produit, notamment, les ensembles de services ou les réparations à chaud (le cas échéant) qui vous sont fournis après l'expiration de la période de quatre-vingt-dix jours de la garantie limitée ne sont pas couverts par quelque garantie ou condition que ce soit, expresse ou implicite. LIMITATION DES RECOURS; ABSENCE DE DOMMAGES INDIRECTS OU AUTRES. Votre recours exclusif pour toute violation de la présente garantie limitée est décrit ciaprès. Sauf pour tout remboursement au choix de Microsoft, si le Produit ne respecte pas la garantie limitée de Microsoft et, dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, même si tout recours n'atteint pas son but essentiel, VOUS N'AVEZ DROIT À AUCUNS DOMMAGES, NOTAMMENT DES DOMMAGES INDIRECTS. Les modalités de la clause Exclusion des dommages accessoires, indirects et de certains autres dommages sont également intégrées à la présente garantie limitée. Certains États ou territoires ne permettent pas l'exclusion ou la limitation des dommages indirects ou accessoires de sorte que la limitation ou l'exclusion cidessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous. La présente garantie limitée vous donne des droits légaux spécifiques. Vous pouvez avoir d'autres droits qui peuvent varier d'un territoire ou d'un État à un autre. VOTRE RECOURS EXCLUSIF. L'obligation intégrale de Microsoft et de ses fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, selon le choix de Microsoft de temps à autre sous réserve de toute loi applicable, a) le remboursement du prix payé, le cas échéant, pour le Produit ou b) la réparation ou le remplacement du Produit qui ne respecte pas la présente garantie limitée et qui est retourné à Microsoft avec une copie de votre reçu. Vous recevrez la compensation choisie par Microsoft, sans frais, sauf que vous êtes responsable des dépenses que vous pourriez engager (p. ex., les frais d'envoi du Produit à Microsoft). La présente garantie limitée est nulle si la défectuosité du Produit est causée par un accident, un usage abusif, une mauvaise application, un usage anormal ou un virus. Tout Produit de remplacement sera garanti pour le reste de la période de garantie initiale ou pendant trente (30) jours, selon la plus longue entre ces deux périodes. À l'extérieur des États-Unis ou du Canada, ces recours ou l'un quelconque des services de soutien technique offerts par Microsoft ne sont pas disponibles sans preuve d'achat d'une source internationale autorisée. Pour exercer votre recours, vous devez communiquer avec Microsoft et vous adresser au Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, ou à la filiale de Microsoft de votre pays. DÉNI DE GARANTIES. La garantie limitée mentionnée ci-dessus constitue la seule garantie expresse qui vous est donnée et remplace toutes autres garanties expresses (s'il en est) mentionnées dans un document ou sur un emballage. Sauf en ce qui a trait à la garantie limitée et dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, le Produit et les services de soutien technique (le cas échéant) sont fournis TELS QUELS ET AVEC TOUS LES DÉFAUTS par Microsoft et ses fournisseurs, lesquels par les présentes dénient toutes autres garanties et conditions expresses, implicites ou en vertu de la loi, notamment (le cas échéant) les garanties, devoirs ou conditions implicites de qualité marchande, d'adaptation à un usage particulier, d'exactitude ou d'exhaustivité des réponses, des résultats, des efforts déployés selon les règles de l'art, d'absence de virus et de négligence, le tout à l'égard du Produit et de la prestation des services de soutien technique ou de l'omission d'une telle prestation. PAR AILLEURS, IL N'Y A AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION QUANT AU TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ, À LA JOUISSANCE OU LA POSSESSION PAISIBLE, À LA CONCORDANCE À UNE DESCRIPTION NI QUANT À UNE ABSENCE DE CONTREFAÇON CONCERNANT LE PRODUIT. EXCLUSION DES DOMMAGES ACCESSOIRES, INDIRECTS ET DE CERTAINS AUTRES DOMMAGES. DANS LA MESURE MAXIMALE PERMISE PAR LES LOIS APPLICABLES, EN AUCUN CAS MICROSOFT OU SES FOURNISSEURS NE SERONT RESPONSABLES DES DOMMAGES SPÉCIAUX, CONSÉCUTIFS, ACCESSOIRES OU INDIRECTS DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT (NOTAMMENT, LES DOMMAGES À L'ÉGARD DU MANQUE À GAGNER OU DE LA DIVULGATION DE RENSEIGNEMENTS CONFIDENTIELS OU AUTRES, DE LA PERTE D'EXPLOITATION, DE BLESSURES CORPORELLES, DE LA VIOLATION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE, DE L'OMISSION DE REMPLIR TOUT DEVOIR, Y COMPRIS D'AGIR DE BONNE FOI OU D'EXERCER UN SOIN RAISONNABLE, DE LA NÉGLIGENCE ET DE TOUTE AUTRE PERTE PÉCUNIAIRE OU AUTRE PERTE DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT) SE RAPPORTANT DE QUELQUE MANIÈRE QUE CE SOIT À L'UTILISATION DU PRODUIT OU À L'INCAPACITÉ DE S'EN SERVIR, À LA PRESTATION OU À L'OMISSION D'UNE TELLE PRESTATION DE SERVICES DE SOUTIEN TECHNIQUE OU AUTREMENT AUX TERMES DE TOUTE DISPOSITION DU PRÉSENT EULA OU RELATIVEMENT À UNE TELLE DISPOSITION, MÊME EN CAS DE FAUTE, DE DÉLIT CIVIL (Y COMPRIS LA NÉGLIGENCE), DE RESPONSABILITÉ STRICTE, DE VIOLATION DE CONTRAT OU DE VIOLATION DE GARANTIE DE MICROSOFT OU DE TOUT FOURNISSEUR ET MÊME SI MICROSOFT OU TOUT FOURNISSEUR A ÉTÉ AVISÉ DE LA POSSIBILITÉ DE TELS DOMMAGES. LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÉ ET RECOURS. Malgré les dommages que vous puissiez subir pour quelque motif que ce soit (notamment, tous les dommages susmentionnés et tous les dommages directs ou généraux), l'obligation intégrale de Microsoft et de l'un ou l'autre de ses fournisseurs aux termes de toute disposition du présent EULA et votre recours exclusif à l'égard de tout ce qui précède (sauf en ce qui concerne tout recours de réparation ou de remplacement choisi par Microsoft à l'égard de tout manquement à la garantie limitée) se limite au plus élevé entre les montants suivants : le montant que vous avez réellement payé pour le Produit ou 5,00 $US. Les limites, exclusions et dénis qui précèdent (y compris les clauses ci-dessus), s'appliquent dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, même si tout recours n'atteint pas son but essentiel. La présente Convention est régie par les lois de la province d'Ontario, Canada. Chacune des parties à la présente reconnaît irrévocablement la compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent à instituer tout litige qui pourrait découler de la présente auprès des tribunaux situés dans le district judiciaire de York, province d'Ontario. Au cas où vous auriez des questions concernant cette licence ou que vous désiriez vous mettre en rapport avec Microsoft pour quelque raison que ce soit, veuillez contacter la succursale Microsoft desservant votre pays, dont l'adresse est fournie dans ce produit, ou écrivez à : Microsoft Sales Information Center, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, Washington 98052-6399.

Re:Another Example of Losing RIghts

[ichimunki]

Hmmm. So if an employer offers me $2/hr to work a job, and I accept the offer, the law has nothing to say about it?

No contract law can take away certain rights, and software licensing is a (unproven) form of contract.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[Elwood P Dowd]

Different items. I think the FrontPage Web Components != FP Server extensions. I think that the web components are small units of content that you can get from MSN. The Server Extensions on the other hand are required to serve frontpage HTML.

Re:Nyah!

[AndrewHowe]

What have your liberties got to do with this issue? Absolutely nothing! None of your liberties, assured by your Constitution or otherwise, have been taken away. You have the right to free speech, but you never had the right to use Microsoft software. They allow you to use it, at their own discretion.
And before you protest, consider that the GPL does exactly the same thing. It's conditional. You don't agree with the license, you don't use the source code. I don't agree with the GPL, so I don't involve myself with GPL'd source.

How about IE users?

[ackthpt]

Is there an upcoming clause that "you may not use the Software to browse a site which disparages MSN, MSNBC", etc.?

If there were, then whither slashdot, as so many users actully use IE.

Still using NS 4.75 =p

Re:How about IE users?

[DunbarTheInept]

Even a company as low and slimy as MS probably wouldn't do that because the user at the browser end doesn't really know what the content will be like until after he reads it. So such a clause as you suggest would be essentially making something illegal that the person might have no control over. It's like making it illegal to *receive* SPAM, rather than making it illegal to send it.

Solution!

[www.sorehands.com]

Put on the website a term of use. This term of will state that you agree not to use anything on this site as a basis for a lawsuit. If you don't agree with this, then leave this site immediately.

If they try to claim the bot can't read it, then claim you did not read their EULA.

Fight fire with fire, but never bring a knife to a gun fight.

All this bitching, and no-one posted the EULA

[blowdart]

OK then here it is, or at least the one I have. Excuse the fucked formatting, apparently the lameness filter objected to some of the HTML.

Now, where's that clause? Well shit, it's not there. Surprise.

END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE.

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY:

SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE

The Software Product is protected by intellectual property laws and treaties.
The Software Product is licensed, not sold.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This Section of the EULA describes Your general
rights to install and use the Software Product The license rights described in
this Section are subject to all other terms and conditions of this EULA.

General License Grant to Install and Use Software Product. You may
install and use one copy of the Software Product on a single computer, device,
workstation, terminal, or other digital electronic or analog device
("Device"). You may make a second copy of the Software Product and
install it on a portable Device for the exclusive use of the person who is the
primary user of the first copy of the Software Product. A license for the
Software Product may not be shared.

Alternative License Grant for Storage/Network Use. As an alternative to
the rights granted in the previous section, You may install a copy of the
Software Product on one storage Device, such as a network server, and allow
individuals within Your business or enterprise to access and use the Software
Product from other Devices over a private network, provided that You acquire
and dedicate a license for the storage Device upon which the Software Product
is installed and each separate Device from which the Software Product is
accessed and used. A license for the Software Product may not be used
concurrently on different Devices.

General License Grant to Install and Use Subscription Product. The
following licensing terms apply to You instead of the license grants in the
previous two paragraphs if You licensed a subscription-based Software Product
(a "Subscription Product"). You may install one copy of the
Subscription Product on a single Device and use the Subscription Product for
the term of Your subscription. You may also exercise the additional license
rights described in the paragraphs below, but only for the term of Your
subscription. The initial subscription period begins on the date You first
activate Your copy of the Subscription Product and ends three hundred and
sixty five (365) days thereafter. You cannot use the Subscription Product
after Your subscription expires unless You renew or extend Your subscription.
By renewing or extending Your subscription, You will be entitled to continue
using the Subscription Product for a specified period of time beyond the date
when Your previous subscription would have otherwise ended. All the terms and
conditions of this EULA will continue to apply to Your use of the Subscription
Product during any subsequent renewal periods unless otherwise specified.
After the expiration of Your subscription, You can continue to open, view and
print any documents You created with the Subscription Product.

Additional License Grant for Media Elements. The Software Product may
include certain photographs, clip art, animations, sounds, music and video
clips (together "Media Elements"). If so, the following terms
describe Your rights to the Media Elements:

o Except as specified in the next Section, You may use, copy and modify
the Media Elements and distribute copies of the Media Elements, along with
Your modifications, as part of Your software product(s) and service(s),
including Your web site(s).

o You are not licensed to do any of the following:

o You may not sell, license or distribute copies of the Media
Elements on a stand-alone basis or as part of any collection, product or
service where the primary value of the product or service are the Media
Elements.

o You may not use or distribute any of the Media Elements that
include representations of identifiable individuals, governments, logos,
initials, emblems, trademarks, or entities for any commercial purposes
or to express or imply any endorsement or association with any product,
service, entity, or activity.

o You may not create obscene or scandalous works, as defined by
federal law at the time the work is created, using the Media Elements.

o You must indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and
against any claims or lawsuits, including attorneys' fees, that arise
from or result from the use or distribution of Media Elements as
modified by You.

o You must include a valid copyright notice on Your products and
services that include copies of the Media Elements.

o You may not permit third parties to distribute copies of the Media
Elements except as part of Your product or service.

Additional License Grant for SharePoint Team Services. The Software
Product may contain a copy of the Sharepoint Team Services. If so, You may
install one copy of such software on one Device and allow an unlimited number
of individuals within Your business or enterprise to access and use the
Sharepoint Team Services from other Devices provided that You acquire and
dedicate a license to the Software Product for the Device upon which the
Sharepoint Team Services are installed.

Reservation of Rights. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by
Microsoft.

2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS.

Academic Edition Software.

If the Software Product is identified as
"Academic Edition" or "AE," You must be a "Qualified
Educational User" to use the Software Product. If You are not a Qualified
Educational User, You have no rights under this EULA. To determine whether You
are a Qualified Educational User, please contact the Microsoft Sales
Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399 or the Microsoft
subsidiary serving Your country.

Mandatory Activation. You may not be able to exercise Your rights to the
Software Product under this EULA after a finite number of product launches
unless You activate Your copy of the Software Product in the manner described
during the launch sequence.

Copy Protection. The Software Product may include copy protection
technology to prevent the unauthorized copying of the Software Product or may
require original media for use of the Software Product on the Device. It is
illegal to make unauthorized copies of the Software Product or to circumvent any
copy protection technology included in the Software Product.

Not for Resale Software. If the Software Product is labeled "Not For
Resale" or "NFR," then, notwithstanding other sections of this
EULA, Your use of the Software Product is limited to use for demonstration,
test, or evaluation purposes and You may not resell, or otherwise transfer for
value, the Software Product.

Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You
may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software Product, except
and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable
law notwithstanding this limitation.

Separation of Component Parts. The Software Product is licensed as a
single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use on more than
one Device unless expressly permitted by this EULA.

Trademarks. This EULA does not grant You any rights in connection with
any trademarks or service marks of Microsoft.

No rental, leasing or commercial hosting. You may not rent, lease, lend
or provide commercial hosting services to third parties with the Software
Product.

Support Services. Microsoft may provide You with support services related
to the Software Product ("Support Services"). Use of Support Services
is governed by the Microsoft policies and programs described in the user manual,
in "online" documentation, or in other Microsoft-provided materials.
Any supplemental software code provided to You as part of the Support Services
are considered part of the Software Product and subject to the terms and
conditions of this EULA. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may use
technical information You provide to Microsoft as part of the Support Services
for its business purposes, including for product support and development.
Microsoft will not utilize such technical information in a form that personally
identifies You.

Software Transfer. Except as specified in this Section, the initial
licensee of the Software Product may make a one-time permanent transfer of this
EULA and Software Product only directly to an end user. This transfer must
include all of the Software Product (including all component parts, the media
and printed materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the
Certificate of Authenticity). Such transfer may not be by way of consignment or
any other indirect transfer. The transferee of such one-time transfer must agree
to comply with the terms of this EULA, including the obligation not to further
transfer this EULA and Software Product. Subscription Products are
non-transferable.

Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may
terminate this EULA if You fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this
EULA. In such event, You must destroy all copies of the Software Product and all
of its component parts.

3. UPGRADES.

Standard Software Product.

If the Software Product is labeled as an
upgrade, You must be properly licensed to use a product identified by
Microsoft as being eligible for the upgrade in order to use the Software
Product. A Software Product labeled as an upgrade replaces or supplements (and
may disable) the product that formed the basis for Your eligibility for the
upgrade. You may use the resulting upgraded product only in accordance with
the terms of this EULA. If the Software Product is an upgrade of a component
of a package of software programs that You licensed as a single product, the
Software Product may be used and transferred only as part of that single
product package and may not be separated for use on more than one Device.

Subscription Based Software Product. The following terms apply to You
instead of the terms in the previous paragraph if You licensed a Subscription
Product. If Microsoft releases any upgrades or new versions of the Subscription
Product during the term of Your subscription, You will be entitled to receive a
copy of such upgrade(s) or new version(s) at no additional cost, except for any
applicable connection charges, taxes, duties and shipping costs if You select
fulfillment by mail. Such upgrades shall be considered part of the Subscription
Product and subject to all of the terms and conditions of this EULA unless
otherwise indicated in any license agreement that accompanies such upgrade or
new version.

4. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. All title and intellectual property
rights in and to the Software Product (including but not limited to any images,
photographs, animations, video, audio, music, text, and "applets"
incorporated into the Software Product), the accompanying printed materials, and
any copies of the Software Product are owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. All
title and intellectual property rights in and to the content that is not
contained in the Software Product, but may be accessed through use of the
Software Product, is the property of the respective content owners and may be
protected by applicable copyright or other intellectual property laws and
treaties. This EULA grants You no rights to use such content. If this Software
Product contains documentation that is provided only in electronic form, you may
print one copy of such electronic documentation. You may not copy the printed
materials accompanying the Software Product.

5. BACKUP COPY. After installation of one copy of the Software Product
pursuant to this EULA, you may keep the original media on which the Software
Product was provided by Microsoft solely for backup or archival purposes. If the
original media is required to use the Software Product on the Device, you may
make one copy of the Software Product solely for backup or archival purposes.
Except as expressly provided in this EULA, you may not otherwise make copies of
the Software Product or the printed materials accompanying the Software Product.

6. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All Software Product provided to the
U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is
provided with the commercial license rights and restrictions described elsewhere
herein. All Software Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with RESTRICTED
RIGHTS as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR
252.227-7013 (OCT 1988), as applicable.

7. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge that the Software Product is of
U.S. origin. You agree to comply with all applicable international and national
laws that apply to the Software Product, including the U.S. Export
Administration Regulations, as well as end-user, end-use and destination
restrictions issued by U.S. and other governments. For additional information,
see http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/.

8. APPLICABLE LAW.

If you acquired this Software Product in the United States, this EULA is
governed by the laws of the State of Washington.

If you acquired this Software Product in Canada, unless expressly prohibited
by local law, this EULA is governed by the laws in force in the Province of
Ontario, Canada; and, in respect of any dispute which may arise hereunder, you
consent to the jurisdiction of the federal and provincial courts sitting in
Toronto, Ontario. If this Software Product was acquired outside the United
States, then local law may apply.

Should you have any questions concerning this EULA, or if you desire to
contact Microsoft for any reason, please contact the Microsoft subsidiary
serving your country, or write: Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft
Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399.

9. LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS ACQUIRED IN THE US AND CANADA.
Microsoft warrants that the SOFTWARE PRODUCT will perform substantially in
accordance with the accompanying materials for a period of ninety (90) days from
the date of receipt.

If an implied warranty or condition is created by your state/jurisdiction and
federal or state/provincial law prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an
implied warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS TO DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE
PERIOD OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY DAYS). AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED
AFTER THE NINETY (90) DAY PERIOD, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND.
Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on how long an implied
warranty or condition lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you.

Any supplements or updates to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, including without
limitation, any (if any) service packs or hot fixes provided to you after the
expiration of the ninety (90) day Limited Warranty period are not covered by any
warranty or condition, express, implied or statutory.

LIMITATION ON REMEDIES; NO CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES. Your exclusive
remedy for any breach of this Limited Warranty is as set forth below. Except for
any refund elected by Microsoft, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, if the Software Product does not meet
Microsoft's Limited Warranty, and, to the maximum extent allowed by applicable
law, even if any remedy fails of its essential purpose. The terms of Section 11
below ("Exclusion of Incidental, Consequential and Certain Other
Damages") are also incorporated into this Limited Warranty. Some
states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or
consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to
you. This Limited Warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have others
which vary from state/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY. Microsoft's and its suppliers' entire liability and
your exclusive remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option from time to time
exercised subject to applicable law, (a) return of the price paid (if any) for
the Software Product, or (b) repair or replacement of the Software Product, that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and that is returned to Microsoft with a
copy of your receipt. You will receive the remedy elected by Microsoft without
charge, except that you are responsible for any expenses you may incur (e.g.
cost of shipping the Software Product to Microsoft). This Limited Warranty is
void if failure of the Software Product has resulted from accident, abuse,
misapplication, abnormal use or a virus. Any replacement Software Product will
be warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30)
days, whichever is longer. Outside the United States or Canada, neither these
remedies nor any product support services offered by Microsoft are available
without proof of purchase from an authorized international source. To exercise
your remedy, contact: Microsoft, Attn. Microsoft Sales Information Center/One
Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, or the Microsoft subsidiary serving your
country.

LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS ACQUIRED OUTSIDE THE US AND CANADA.
FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTIES AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS PERTAINING TO YOUR PARTICULAR
JURISDICTION, PLEASE REFER TO YOUR WARRANTY BOOKLET INCLUDED WITH THIS PACKAGE
OR PROVIDED WITH THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT PRINTED MATERIALS.

10. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. THE LIMITED WARRANTY THAT APPEARS ABOVE IS
THE ONLY EXPRESS WARRANTY MADE TO YOU AND IS PROVIDED IN LIEU OF ANY OTHER
EXPRESS WARRANTIES (IF ANY) CREATED BY ANY DOCUMENTATION OR PACKAGING. EXCEPT
FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW,
MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS PROVIDE THE SOFTWARE AND SUPPORT SERVICES (IF ANY) AS
IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL OTHER WARRANTIES AND
CONDITIONS, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
ANY (IF ANY) IMPLIED WARRANTIES, DUTIES OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, OF
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OF ACCURACY OR COMPLETENESS OR RESPONSES, OF
RESULTS, OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT, OF LACK OF VIRUSES AND OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE,
ALL WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE, AND THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE
SUPPORT SERVICES. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET
ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT
WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE.

11. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO
THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR
ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS
OR CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL
INJURY, FOR LOSS OF PRIVACY, FOR FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY INCLUDING OF GOOD
FAITH OR OF REASONABLE CARE, FOR NEGLIGENCE, AND FOR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR
OTHER LOSS WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR
INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE
SUPPORT SERVICES, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS
EULA, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF THE FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT
LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT OR BREACH OF WARRANTY OF MICROSOFT OR ANY
SUPPLIER, AND EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

12. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY DAMAGES
THAT YOU MIGHT INCUR FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION,
ALL DAMAGES REFERENCED ABOVE AND ALL DIRECT OR GENERAL DAMAGES), THE ENTIRE
LIABILITY OF MICROSOFT AND ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA
AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ALL OF THE FOREGOING (EXCEPT FOR ANY REMEDY OF
REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT ELECTED BY MICROSOFT WITH RESPECT TO ANY BREACH OF THE
LIMITED WARRANTY) SHAL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY
YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE OR U.S. $5.00. THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND
DISCLAIMERS (INCLUDING SECTIONS 7, 8, AND 9 ABOVE) SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM
EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS ITS ESSENTIAL
PURPOSE.

13. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This EULA (including any addendum or amendment to
this EULA which is included with the Software Product) is the entire agreement
between you and Microsoft relating to the Software Product and the support
services (if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous oral or
written communications, proposals and representations with respect to the
Software Product or any other subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent
the terms of any Microsoft policies or programs for support services conflict
with the terms of this EULA, the terms of this EULA shall control.

Si vous avez acquis votre produit Microsoft au CANADA, la garantie limitée
suivante vous concerne :

GARANTIE LIMITÉE

Microsoft garantit que le Produit fonctionnera conformément aux documents
inclus pendant une période de 90 jours suivant la date de réception.

Si une garantie ou condition implicite est créée par votre État ou votre
territoire et qu'une loi fédérale ou provinciale ou État en interdit le
déni, vous jouissez également d'une garantie ou condition implicite, MAIS
UNIQUEMENT POUR LES DÉFAUTS DÉCOUVERTS DURANT LA PÉRIODE DE LA PRÉSENTE
GARANTIE LIMITÉE (QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS). IL N'Y A AUCUNE GARANTIE OU
CONDITION DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT QUANT AUX DÉFAUTS DÉCOUVERTS APRÈS
CETTE PÉRIODE DE QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS. Certains États ou territoires ne
permettent pas de limiter la durée d'une garantie ou condition implicite de
sorte que la limitation cidessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous.

Tous les suppléments ou toutes les mises à jour relatifs au Produit,
notamment, les ensembles de services ou les réparations à chaud (le cas
échéant) qui vous sont fournis après l'expiration de la période de
quatre-vingt-dix jours de la garantie limitée ne sont pas couverts par quelque
garantie ou condition que ce soit, expresse ou implicite.

LIMITATION DES RECOURS; ABSENCE DE DOMMAGES INDIRECTS OU AUTRES. Votre
recours exclusif pour toute violation de la présente garantie limitée est
décrit ciaprès. Sauf pour tout remboursement au choix de Microsoft, si le
Produit ne respecte pas la garantie limitée de Microsoft et, dans la mesure
maximale permise par les lois applicables, même si tout recours n'atteint pas
son but essentiel, VOUS N'AVEZ DROIT À AUCUNS DOMMAGES, NOTAMMENT DES
DOMMAGES INDIRECTS. Les modalités de la clause Exclusion des dommages
accessoires, indirects et de certains autres dommages sont également
intégrées à la présente garantie limitée. Certains États ou territoires ne
permettent pas l'exclusion ou la limitation des dommages indirects ou
accessoires de sorte que la limitation ou l'exclusion cidessus peut ne pas s'appliquer
à vous. La présente garantie limitée vous donne des droits légaux
spécifiques. Vous pouvez avoir d'autres droits qui peuvent varier d'un
territoire ou d'un État à un autre. VOTRE RECOURS EXCLUSIF. L'obligation
intégrale de Microsoft et de ses fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront,
selon le choix de Microsoft de temps à autre sous réserve de toute loi
applicable, a) le remboursement du prix payé, le cas échéant, pour le Produit
ou b) la réparation ou le remplacement du Produit qui ne respecte pas la
présente garantie limitée et qui est retourné à Microsoft avec une copie de
votre reçu. Vous recevrez la compensation choisie par Microsoft, sans frais,
sauf que vous êtes responsable des dépenses que vous pourriez engager (p. ex.,
les frais d'envoi du Produit à Microsoft). La présente garantie limitée est
nulle si la défectuosité du Produit est causée par un accident, un usage
abusif, une mauvaise application, un usage anormal ou un virus. Tout Produit de
remplacement sera garanti pour le reste de la période de garantie initiale ou
pendant trente (30) jours, selon la plus longue entre ces deux périodes. À l'extérieur
des États-Unis ou du Canada, ces recours ou l'un quelconque des services de
soutien technique offerts par Microsoft ne sont pas disponibles sans preuve d'achat
d'une source internationale autorisée. Pour exercer votre recours, vous devez
communiquer avec Microsoft et vous adresser au Microsoft Sales Information
Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, ou à la filiale de Microsoft
de votre pays.

DÉNI DE GARANTIES. La garantie limitée mentionnée ci-dessus constitue la
seule garantie expresse qui vous est donnée et remplace toutes autres garanties
expresses (s'il en est) mentionnées dans un document ou sur un emballage.
Sauf en ce qui a trait à la garantie limitée et dans la mesure maximale
permise par les lois applicables, le Produit et les services de soutien
technique (le cas échéant) sont fournis TELS QUELS ET AVEC TOUS LES
DÉFAUTS par Microsoft et ses fournisseurs, lesquels par les présentes
dénient toutes autres garanties et conditions expresses, implicites ou en vertu
de la loi, notamment (le cas échéant) les garanties, devoirs ou conditions
implicites de qualité marchande, d'adaptation à un usage particulier, d'exactitude
ou d'exhaustivité des réponses, des résultats, des efforts déployés selon
les règles de l'art, d'absence de virus et de négligence, le tout à l'égard
du Produit et de la prestation des services de soutien technique ou de l'omission
d'une telle prestation. PAR AILLEURS, IL N'Y A AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION
QUANT AU TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ, À LA JOUISSANCE OU LA POSSESSION PAISIBLE, À LA
CONCORDANCE À UNE DESCRIPTION NI QUANT À UNE ABSENCE DE CONTREFAÇON
CONCERNANT LE PRODUIT.

EXCLUSION DES DOMMAGES ACCESSOIRES, INDIRECTS ET DE CERTAINS AUTRES DOMMAGES.
DANS LA MESURE MAXIMALE PERMISE PAR LES LOIS APPLICABLES, EN AUCUN CAS MICROSOFT
OU SES FOURNISSEURS NE SERONT RESPONSABLES DES DOMMAGES SPÉCIAUX, CONSÉCUTIFS,
ACCESSOIRES OU INDIRECTS DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT (NOTAMMENT, LES DOMMAGES
À L'ÉGARD DU MANQUE À GAGNER OU DE LA DIVULGATION DE RENSEIGNEMENTS
CONFIDENTIELS OU AUTRES, DE LA PERTE D'EXPLOITATION, DE BLESSURES CORPORELLES,
DE LA VIOLATION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE, DE L'OMISSION DE REMPLIR TOUT DEVOIR, Y
COMPRIS D'AGIR DE BONNE FOI OU D'EXERCER UN SOIN RAISONNABLE, DE LA
NÉGLIGENCE ET DE TOUTE AUTRE PERTE PÉCUNIAIRE OU AUTRE PERTE DE QUELQUE NATURE
QUE CE SOIT) SE RAPPORTANT DE QUELQUE MANIÈRE QUE CE SOIT À L'UTILISATION DU
PRODUIT OU À L'INCAPACITÉ DE S'EN SERVIR, À LA PRESTATION OU À L'OMISSION
D'UNE TELLE PRESTATION DE SERVICES DE SOUTIEN TECHNIQUE OU AUTREMENT AUX
TERMES DE TOUTE DISPOSITION DU PRÉSENT EULA OU RELATIVEMENT À UNE TELLE
DISPOSITION, MÊME EN CAS DE FAUTE, DE DÉLIT CIVIL (Y COMPRIS LA NÉGLIGENCE),
DE RESPONSABILITÉ STRICTE, DE VIOLATION DE CONTRAT OU DE VIOLATION DE GARANTIE
DE MICROSOFT OU DE TOUT FOURNISSEUR ET MÊME SI MICROSOFT OU TOUT FOURNISSEUR A
ÉTÉ AVISÉ DE LA POSSIBILITÉ DE TELS DOMMAGES.

LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÉ ET RECOURS. Malgré les dommages que vous
puissiez subir pour quelque motif que ce soit (notamment, tous les dommages
susmentionnés et tous les dommages directs ou généraux), l'obligation
intégrale de Microsoft et de l'un ou l'autre de ses fournisseurs aux termes
de toute disposition du présent EULA et votre recours exclusif à l'égard de
tout ce qui précède (sauf en ce qui concerne tout recours de réparation ou de
remplacement choisi par Microsoft à l'égard de tout manquement à la
garantie limitée) se limite au plus élevé entre les montants suivants : le
montant que vous avez réellement payé pour le Produit ou 5,00 $US. Les
limites, exclusions et dénis qui précèdent (y compris les clauses ci-dessus),
s'appliquent dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, même
si tout recours n'atteint pas son but essentiel.

La présente Convention est régie par les lois de la province d'Ontario,
Canada. Chacune des parties à la présente reconnaît irrévocablement la
compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent à instituer
tout litige qui pourrait découler de la présente auprès des tribunaux situés
dans le district judiciaire de York, province d'Ontario.

Au cas où vous auriez des questions concernant cette licence ou que vous
désiriez vous mettre en rapport avec Microsoft pour quelque raison que ce soit,
veuillez contacter la succursale Microsoft desservant votre pays, dont l'adresse
est fournie dans ce produit, ou écrivez à : Microsoft Sales Information
Center, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, Washington 98052-6399.

So, what's the difference, ethically?

[DunbarTheInept]

Okay, so instead of it being illegal to use product "MS foo" to say disparaging things about MS, it's actually "MS bar" that's illegal to use to say disparaging things about MS. From an ethical standpoint, the issue is no different. It's still just as slimy either way.

And, further, in this case, the "MS bar" in question is a product that, while not technically always required for MS foo to work, is required for the full set of features of MS foo to work.

In practice, however, this probably won't come up often, given that a site that is disparaging of MS is probably NOT going to be edited in Frontpage.

Do I have this right?

[lcypher]

From what I understand, you cannot read the EULA until you have purchased the product, opened the shrink wrap, and placed the CD in your CD-ROM and begun the install process.

So, if you end up disagreeing with the EULA, you cannot take it back because most stores do not allow returns of opened software if there was no defect.

Do I have this right?

Have a read, it's been quoted in a comment

[Cardinal]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21808&cid=2325 883 Odd. I couldn't format that as an anchor, the lameness filter kicked in. But anyway, the EULA is quoted in that comment. Enjoy.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[DunbarTheInept]

It merely restricts visible elements (server-side controls and such) from being associated with objectionable content. And that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Not all server-side things are "visible elements" to the user. No, plain and simple MS is saying you can't use MS FOO to communicate something bad about MS. It doesn't matter one iota whether MS FOO is an entire product or a subset of a prodcut (as in this case). The ethical issue is still the same. Here's an analogy: The phone company saying you can't use their three-way calling, caller ID, call waiting, or voice mail to say bad things about the phone company to your friends, but you can still use the more mundane generic phone call to do so. If you can't see what's wrong with that, then your psychology is so different from mine that you might as well be an alien.

Re:Nyah!

[AndrewHowe]

The thing that you're agreeing to is irrelevant to my point. So yes, it's the same thing. You agree to the license or you don't. If you agree to it, you agree to be bound by its terms. If this were not the case, then the GPL would be worthless (and I will resist the obvious cheap shot, because I'm trying to make a point about agreements in general).

Re:Buy This Expansion(tm)

[rnturn]

``A lot of business software for minis and mainframes would be licensed with different costs based on the power of the hardware running it.''

You make it sound like this is a thing of the past.

Oracle not too long ago ignited a firestorm of protests by introducing a license pricing plan that scaled according to the processor clock speed. (They might have dumped this plan, though, there was a great gnashing of teeth when it was announced.) I heard no justification from Oracle as to why my employer, having just shelled out $20K to doubled the speed of a pair of 4xCPU Alphaservers, should have to pay Oracle any more money because we're now executing their compiled code twice as fast. It would be like the power company coming after me for more money because I switch to florescent bulbs from incandescent because, now, I'm getting more lumens for the same (or lower) wattage. Silly? No more silly than Oracle reaching into our wallet to tax our hardware investment.

Anyway, I cringe every time I hear a vendor telling me that they need to know how many processors are in our servers and at what clock speed are they running. I can just imagine the ``corrected'' invoices rolling in...

Re:You still have the freedom to choose...

[zangdesign]

Oh, so everyone should be allowed to use whatever tools they want in the corporate workplace and to hell with tech support trying to keep their heads above water supporting a billion different standards? Is that it?

Well, shit, son. Start your own goddamn corporation and run it however you want, but don't come begging for a job when the cost of experts in everything under the sun consumes way more than your gross profit margin.

Oh, wait! Let me guess, you wouldn't work for a corporation that would hire you, would you?

Lameass whiner.

Re:You still have the freedom to choose...

[Craig Maloney]

When was the last time you were able to purchase a pre-packaged machine and not have a Microsoft OS loaded? Unless you're prepared to completely roll-your-own, you can't escape Microsoft.

That is where money-voting fails. There is no consumer choice to NOT use Microsoft unless you roll-your-own or buy an Apple.

Re:Did anyone read the EULA?

[Chris Johnson]

Alright: so you cannot make a page which compares MSNBC reporting with, say, Reuters, and draws comment to MSNBC's version using the news headline component- and you cannot make a page with MSN Search annotated with some search terms and MS-biased results that wouldn't be found by normal search engines.

But this is a smokescreen because you're not lawyer enough to read what you've posted. The web components INCLUDE those wizzy features. They are not LIMITED to those things, they just include them. Anyone have a complete list of what constitutes a FrontPage web component? Like, say, an uploading tool, perchance? Is it even possible to make and upload a FrontPage page without using a 'FrontPage web component'?

You are waaaaay too naive for anything named 'CthulhuDragon' ;)

Re:He was just joking!

[JabberWokky]

And I was serious. I'm also serious when I tell you that if you lick the screen right now, it will taste like cake.

Emoticons have dulled people's recognition of dry and/or subtle humor.

--
Evan

Not quite the same

[Bilbo]

In this case, it was NIKE putting the letters/words on the sneekers, even though it was at the request of the customer. As such, they were to some extent legally responsible for them. Hence, I'm sure they wouldn't have put in words like F--K YOU or FREE S-X or whatever.

Granted, putting NIKE SUX on their own shoes isn't in quite the same category as the examples above, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to refuse.

On the other hand, if I create a MS.SUX website, I am responsible for the content regardless of what tool I use to create it. I don't see how MS can legitimately bitch about it. On the other hand, I can see how it would be legal to create such restrictions (not that much different from the "no published benchmarks" clause in other EUL's), but it sure sounds sleezy...

So, What's Different?

[Bilbo]

Have you ever tried opening a frontpage-generated HTML file in a text editor? Bleedin' Christ, it's a damned mess.

'Tis the Microsoft Way!

Actually, it's not all that different from using any other GUI editor. The whole point of using a WYSIWYG editor is that you don't need to see the ugly underlying formatting code! Fer chrissakes, if we all wanted to deal with format codes, we'd still be using nroff/troff and dot commands. The point of using Frontpage, or any other GUI based editor, is that it makes it easier to maintain the page, in a way that sort-of looks like it did when you edited it. Of course, this points out the sillyness of the original suggestion. Once you've doinked with the underlying HTML, you can't use (legally) FP to update or maintain the pages.

Not really

[einhverfr]

Not really--

IIS is insecure, FrontPage server extensions can effectively reduce the uptime of a site, and Windows XP requires activation on most installations creating a real liability for small to midsize companies.

All of this is not to diminish the fact that Microsoft is a really great company. They have been at least partly responsible for making computers affordable because of innovation, if not in technical fields, at least in economic ones.

Can I use the logo now?

Not really

[einhverfr]

Let me see.

I myself would have some problem recommending all-Microsoft products to customers. IIS is insecure, and along with FrontPage Server Extensions, can lead to downtime on e-commerce web-sites much in excess of what one sees in the UNIX world. Also Windows XP requires activation, and the tampering with certain files can render this action void, creating a very real liability for many companies.

All of this is not to dimish the fact that Microsoft is a really great company. What they have lacked in technical know-how or innovation (or security) they have made up for in economic innovation, helping to reduce the price of software well below that of other proprietary products.

Can I use the logo now?

So were those great American heroes....

[MemeRot]

So were those great American heroes, the Dukes of Hazard...
"Making their way,
the only way they know how,
but that's just a little bit more
than the law'll allow"

The problem is that Bill's way is also a "little bit more than the law'll allow". I think it's high time we sicced Roscoe P. Coltrane on him. Without the General Lee Bill's got no chance :)

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

[DunbarTheInept]

It doesn't matter what was intended. What is *written* is NOT what you say. What is written is that you cannot use frontpage server-side elements for anything disparaging of Microsoft. Period. It does not say, "but only if the MS logo shows up on the screen when you do it."

And besides, any idiot can tell that "group Foo uses MS software to do Bar" is not the same thing as "MS supports Bar". Or at least it would if MS didn't go around plastering their logo on every little component. (Do they? I don't know since I don't use their web stuff, I'm insuating that they do from your response {otherwise your response doesn't make any sense at all}.)

Umm.. no..

[Danse]

If someone creates a web site with objectionable material - say, praising last week's terrorist actions - and plasters those Microsoft web controls all over the page, people who read that page will see Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft everywhere they look. Someone will call the news media, and the next thing you know, there are reports that Microsoft supports terrorism.

If you read it, I could do exactly that without violating the license. They're only concerned with me using their controls in conjunction with disparaging Microsoft itself, not using them in conjunction with unpopular speech.

"most ...repugnant use"

[Animats]

PacBell Internet has similar terms. Here's their DSL service agreement. See section 8A(C):

• SBCIS reserves the right to suspend or terminate the Service to you, or to suspend or terminate any userID, electronic mail address, Universal Resource Locator or domain name used by you, in the event it is used in a manner which ... (iv) tends to damage the name or reputation of SBCIS, its parent, affiliates and subsidiaries; or ...

And this is from an "unregulated subsidiary" of a public utility. One that has achieved a de facto monopoly on residential DSL service in most of California.

OT: Your .Sig

[virg_mattes]

OMG, your .sig made me laugh out loud. It's about 5 lines shorter than the last one I saw about the woodchuck thing, and it's the whole code tuning for faster chuckage that made me laugh.

Well done.

Virg