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Did Whales Evolve From Pigs?
FortKnox writes : "According to this acticle, scientists have found proof that whales evolved from a pig/sheep like creature. Whale evolution has been sketchy for years, but a palentologist has plugged the gaps with some fossils found in Pakistan. It appears Hippos may be the closest relatives to whales."
Just curious... :)
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This story just cries out for a Jerry Springer home fatso rescue.
If whales are related to hippos, then it could explain why they took to the water. With such large body masses, the density of water relative to the density of air would help to lighten the load of such a creature. If you could survive better in water cuase it was easier to move, you'd live there too....
``The newly discovered fossils show the first whales were fully terrestrial, and were even efficient runners,'' he said in a commentary in Nature.
So we have this huge creature that can run real fast, and it needed to retreat to the sea?
you've gotta wonder what prompts evolution...
There are only two things in this world that smell like fish. And one of them's fish...
It wasn't too long ago that people thought cetatians evolved from dogs, and/or small furry creatures (no, not from Alpha Centauri
Seriously, this theory sounds, well, interesting to say the least. Pigs and sheep just don't seem to make sense. The skeletal structure is so different, it would be hard to contemplate a common ancestor, except for one so far back as to make the relationship irrelevent.
Hippos are more "logical", but don't quite cut the mustard, either. Remember, river dolphins (the most ancient species of whale still alive) are in places like the Amazon basin and China. Neither of which is known for its hippopotomous populations.
One thing to note is that the amount of information on the Internet on river dolphins is extremely limited. Publicly-available information seems to be limited to non-existant.
(Just try finding a recording of a river dolphin, or a graph of one, some video footage, behavioural studies, EEG photos, or almost ANY in-depth data. I've found a few murky photos, some eloquent descriptions, but absolutely no data worth a damn.)
This is relevent, since they -are- so ancient. If nobody has done much research on ancient whale species, then how valid can any research be, which claims to talk of where they came from?
You just CAN'T take a modern species of whale, and directly compare it with fossil remains. You are just asking for trouble, if you do, as similar needs will lead to similar solutions. That means you have to look for the closest possible match of the most ancient form you can find.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Here are two related articles:
- article at CBC Newsworld
- article at the Globe and Mail
Well, Fish, not Phish, but that would've been even funnier. They were hunting fish, did it more and more, and got more and more adapted to being in the water. Offensive, not defensive.
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Of course, they could have only evolved that way if evolution is true in the first place. Along with the many pieces of evidence for it, theres also a lot of evidence against it :)
try http://www.answersingenesis.org
and http://www.trueorigins.org
for some interesting evidence against evolution :)
> It wasn't too long ago that people thought cetatians evolved from dogs, and/or small furry creatures (no, not from Alpha Centauri
They've discussed this over at talk.origins (the newsgroup), and I gather that the paleontologists thought one thing and the DNAologists thought another, and the recent find convinced the P's that the D's were right.
Apparently the deciding issue was some ankle bone that had not been in any of the earlier finds, so the P's had been working from skull similarities, that being the best evidence their branch of the field had to work with.
ps - sorry to shorten the "..." in your subject line, but the lame-o lameness filter accused me of trying ASCII art, and wouldn't take my reply without the snip.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Note that they didn't say that whales evolved from pigs and sheep, but from an even-toed ungulate. (artiodactyls) and pigs and hippos etc. are even-toed ungulates. I'm not sure what skeletal differnces you are talking about, but remember you are talking about *primitive* artiodactyls, probably much like the hippos you said are a more likely choice.
Remember, river dolphins (the most ancient species of whale still alive) are in places like the Amazon basin and China. Neither of which is known for its hippopotomous populations.
That's because whales evolved 50 million years ago, and the whales evolved from hippo-like animals, not hippos themselves. In the 50 million years since, it is possible that those creatures died off in the locations where river dolphins are.
Alternatively, the primitive whales could have colonized the rivers from the ocean. The river dolphins stagnated, while in the diverse habitat of the sea, the ocean dophins and whales proliferated.
Insert standard disclaimer: IANAEB (evolutionary biologist)
I thought the one where he changed Ashcroft's quotes was funnier, but this is still pretty good.
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So a scientist finds an ankle bone and a skull from two different animals, puts them together, creates the rest of the animal from thin air, and declares that whales descended from hippos.
Yep. Convinced me.
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For billions of years this planet has gone through the motions of energy transfer, and for billions of additional years or sun revolutions the energy that consists of the Earth was nothing more than elements and minerals. However with enough time and radiation from our neighboring stars these complicated minerals converted into a higher frequncy of energy (i.e. living organisms). This converstion or transfer is not as unbelieveable as once thought. The truth of the matter is that this evolution from compound into a "living creature" is nothing more than the normal path of energy tansfer or evolution, the once simple compouds became more complicated in order to retain the natural energy that came before. I site the laws of entropy to back up what I have said. On another note, the only thing that separates a human being from a rock (on the simplist plane of understanding) is that the two objects energies are arranged differently. Both are constucted of energy in the most basic form ,but the complication or the arrangements give the visible diversity so that one can recongnize the diffenence (physically and in our conscious demmension). Moving forward quite a bit, A whale represents all of the past energy transfers that originally began with the LAST big bang. Thus any organism can be traced back to every other organism as long the proper time sequencing is correct. In other words, one lifeform gives rise to many lifeforms but only a few go on to give life to the next generation or next genetic mutations( derived by natural selection, of course). I know you have that deer in the head lights look,but don't fret the answers are coming soon. Finally I believe that the whale with the exception of the dolphin is the most intellegent being on this planet. And I'll tell you why, simply because they don't live under the notion or should I say don't appear to live under the notion that they own the world. Instead they seem to have found a peace which allows them to belong to the world. Unlike some primates I know that feel that they need to control their environment to the point of destoying themselves. NOT REAL INTELLEGENT HUH! I leave you with this thought; Why shouldn't we let go of our insecurities with regard to control and learn how to be part of the world instead of relentlessly trying to own it?????? --GZA-- A.K.A. Proofofwarpdrive or Josh Lundgren
I looked for information on river dolphins, I had never heard of them before your comment. I found some pictures, and a quicktime movie, all on this link. http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/97/5/marine2.html