Slashdot Mirror
Pyramid Shaped Keyboard
Lordkolya wrote in to tell us about a pyramid shaped keyboard. It's supposed to be ergonomic, but it sure is ugly. I still need to try one of the Kinesis keyboards out. It's time for me to change keyboards again. I dunno if I can learn a new chording keyboard. I've tried a few one handed boards and had bad luck. Maybe I'm not destined to learn any more chords then E-A-D.
Did you see the rest of the stuff on that site? Melting gum off the road with high powered lasers, optical spy doohickies and much much more. And their poll is much more clueful than the past two or three I've seen here! I'm bookmarking those guys oh yeah!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I am weary of any keyboard that completely changes the layout that most are accustomed to..
I have tried many keyboards but I have found that any keyboard that is supposedly better for your wrists actually causes me immense pain for several days (long enough to have me cease its use).
I am currently using a MS keyboard of some sort that has one of those wrist rests. It works fine. My main problem is that I keep breaking the metal folding chairs that are inexpensive enough for me to afford and I have to keep reverting to a footstool w/a pillow on it for my desk. It is very low and doesn't really make the angle of the wrists very good.
The other keys that must be reached by your thumbs on this pyramid thing would actually be a bigger pain in the ass than they are worth.
I guess I will continue to type the old fashioned way. Hell, I still prefer standard transmissions, regular phones, and non-power anything.
When he demonstrated the orginal computer mouse, Doug Engelbart used a one handed chorded keyboard for his left hand at the same time. The system that they developed allowed users to type all characters using just the chords on the left hand, but they still had a normal keyboard... Why? Because the standard keyboard was pretty efficient. So, what did they use the chorded keyboard for? Functions. Copy, paste, print, etc were all associated with chord combinations. This way, you move your hands away from the keyboard to use the mouse and chord when you want to do functional stuff. But, when you're typing you put both hands on the keyboard and pound away.
The learning curve for a two-handed chorded keyboard is sort of long, but not rediculous. Learning a new layout (e.g., Dvorak) on a standard keyboard takes about 20 hours (e.g., 1 hour a day every weekday for a month). Chording is a learned skill, which can be acquired relatively quickly. I'm guessing it's faster if you have piano skills...
Buy Hex-Rated Stuff, fight the DMCA!
His credibility does take a hit, though, in that he repeats the myth that the QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow typists down...
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
On a normal keyboard, I usually leave one hand on the keyboard at all times when using the mouse. This hand can hit all the modifier keys(control, option, commands, shift - on a Mac), for when pressing those keys is necessary in what you're doing with the mouse.
With this keyboard it's designed so the modifier keys are split between both hands. So when your right hand goes to the mouse, it becomes difficult to hit the modifier keys with the left.
Also, say what you want about flat keyboards, but being able to rest your hands on the desk or wrist pad is nice. Do you really want to be holding your arms up in the air for hours on end while typing?
"Fundamentally, it is a pyramidal design with two edges rounded to accommodate and orientate the palms of the user's hands."
WTF do people have to make up words like "orientate" when perfectly servicable words (like "orient") already exist?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
can I get it on thinkgeek? But seriously it looks pretty cool. I'd like to try one out and see how easy it is to use.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Looks more like a tetrahedron than a pyramid to me...
sig fault
The first question that arises is how one can duplicate 101 keys that are on today's computer keyboards with the 24 finger key locations (3-way for 4 fingers of each hand) on the ISOS keyboard . The answer is you don't want to.
First time I saw that I thought they were going to get rid of lesser used characters completely... But then I realized they probably would have had to say it like this:
The irst uestion that arises is ho one can dulicate 101 keys that are on todas comuter keboards with the 24 inger ke locations (3-way or 4 ingers o each hand) on the ISOS keboard. The answer is ou dont ant to.
Wheeeee
...tip sets, like those found in William Gibson novels. As long as we're switching to a different way of talking to our boxes, why not make it something that's a lot more portable and flexible? Yeah, the new interface would be a bit of bitch to learn (now just what gesture do I do for 'q'?), but I think that you could do a lot with a system like this.
For example, the keyboard and the mouse could become the same unit. This would probably be the easiest part of the new interface to learn; after all, how hard is it to point? Even if it was more complicated than that I would be happy to figure it out if it would keep me from having to do that annoying keyboard-mouse-keyboard switch that some programs require.
As for the learning problem in general, we already have keyboarding classes. They'd just have to start teaching the new tech (tip sets) over the old (keyboards). The new generation would laugh at the old until we and our ridiculous habits died out and then keyboarding would join the ranks of punch cards and paper terminals.
Why do I think that tip-sets would be better than your trusty keyboard? Well, what I'm thinking of is gaming. You can go from one game to another and (usually) not have to think about what button does what. Somehow the concept of "My guy needs to jump now." goes straight from your mind to your hands, without passing through any state of "So what button is jump?". I would think that a well-engineered gesture-system would be the same thing. The letters that you wish to enter would go straight from mind to hands. Not that the keyboard doesn't do the same thing, but if your hands are shifted over a bit you'll get all screwed up, whereas the tip-sets are wherever your hands are. You could "type" with your hands lying by your sides or behind your head or whatever. You could also control the mouse pointer from this position, though who knows: maybe tip-sets would bring about an interface that didn't involve a pointer. (Nah.) Also, it would bring us one step closer to a VR environment, something that I believe has a certain amount of potential; especially given the graphics power of today's computers.
Okay, I'm beginning to ramble but the bottom line is that tip-sets are cool and probably more efficient and ergonomic than keyboards and mice.
----------
OpenNIC. Because it's just better, that's why.
I build model citizens.
pic
xmodmap
Besides qwerty was designed to [slow] a person down so the mechinical arms would not hit.
I've heard this argument before (article about DVORAK I believe), and I'm pretty sure it's bogus. The keys may have been strategically placed so the more common two-key combinations are more likely to be separated, but it wasn't to slow the typist down.
At any rate, I'm probably the only one, but I love a standard QWERTY keyboard. Tried a split keyboard once (MS "natural"), couldn't stand it. I don't hit all keys with the proper finger (namely, the "B" threw me off). DVORAK was a nightmare, tried it for about two days. Maybe I don't have the patience, maybe I'm stubborn, but I'm happy enough at 70 WPM -- not the fastest, but fast enough for me.
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
...I've often wanted a chair that had a keyboard in each armrest, the left & right sides of a standard keyboard, yet you just move your fingers vertically for the upper and lower rows, or press down for the home row. I doubt anyone could learn it that knows how to hunt and peck, but us touch typists that go 120 wpm could benefit from it after you get used to it.
Who knows, maybe one day will figure out a way, but I just don't see voice replacing typing, many people can type faster than they talk.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
That is such rubbish. Not only are there six characters in 'QWERTY', but the original layout was not meant to slow down the typist, but to reduce the chance that two letters next to each other in a word would require that two keys next to each other on the keyboard (as viewed from the 'piano keys with the letters raised on them's point of view) be struck, thus increasing the chance of a jam.
So, in fact, the querty layout was designed to speed up typing, by requiring less of an artificial pause between keystrokes.
Imagine if you will trying to be the marketers of such a device! This odd-looking device that is suppose to be a good source of ergonomics and make more use of the thumbs. Even so, I know of a few reasons why it won't take off:
:-)
1) People are reluctant to change. Most people have already adapted to the QWERTY-style of keyboard because it's the most common, and I'm sure those who like and can find a DVORAK keyboard use them as well.
2) Gamers won't be pleased to have something that would restrict the use of other devices... those that don't use a joystick are likely to be using the keyboard, the mouse, or the combonation of the two, as in Quake (duh. btw, if you find someone that uses a joystick with Quake, hit them with a newspaper and rub their noses into the joystick and go "Noooooo..." See if they stop
3) Training costs of having to teach *each* person that you stick this keyboard with -- of course if a computer is *down* and this keyboard is the only one available, you can't expect them to know how to switch keyboards; so it makes sence to the PHBs out there that you should train them all... that takes time and money.
Anyway, my $0.02
Karma whorin' since 1999
I've got a Kinesis Contoured 'board at work now, but I'm going to return it.
First, the good: Learning the new key positions wasn't very difficult. They're pretty natural, and the hand position is very nice. Less stress than a standard 'board. The keys themselves are mechanical, not membrane, and low-pressure. Very nice feel, very positive contact, although not much of a click. There's an audible click that you can toggle.
On the bad side, the 'board is almost useless except for typing characters. The control (shift, alt, etc) keys are in difficult positions. A design goal of the 'board, they tell me, was to make key combos like 'CTRL-SHIFT-S' easier to hit with two hands. This may be better for your hands, but at high speed it's very very hard to coordinate two hands to nail a combo like this (and I play guitar, so I know a little about coordinating hand movements).
There's no numeric keypad, but there is another 'layer' that can be toggled with a function key or foot switch. Kind of a pain. The 'board's programmable, if you spring $50 for the extra chip (with that and the footswitch, you're easily over $300), and this helps a little, but not enough.
Bottom line for me: the keys feel beautiful and typing characters is very easy, but the 'board's nearly useless for anything else. It's hard to hit function keys and key combos, hard to use with one hand while keeping a hand on the mouse - in other words, nearly half of what I do. Too bad.
BUT if you do nothing but type all day, buy this board and never let it out of your sight. Your life will improve dramatically. If I could afford to have 2 'boards, this would be one of them.
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
man, that's pointy. gone now are the days when we could bash our heads into our keyboards in frustration when 'hello world' didn't compile right.
That's C the triad, not the programming language. Whose stuff from the Seattle area do you like better, The Ventures, or Microsoft? Hmm?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
With this simple pyramid keyboard scheme, you can type not twice as fast, not ten times as fast, but MORE THAN ONE MILLION TIMES as fast as you do now. Do you know what 1 million score -1 Slashdot posts look like? It's amazing!
How does it work? For every key that you press, you will get back DOUBLE THAT NUMBER of AOL "Me too!" posts, greatly expanding your word count by including numerous un-edited follow-ups WITHOUT YOU HAVING TO LIFT A FINGER!
Simply copy this post to 10 of your closest friends, and ask them to follow you up on Slashdot, quoting your post in total and asking them to do the same to their ten closest friends...
(you get the idea)
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
I picked up one of these keyboards a while ago.
:P).
Overall, I've been quite pleased. The general feel and construction of the keyboard are good - it's nice and solid, feels well made, and the tactile feel and "clicky-ness" (not much at all) is to my (admittedly personal) liking.
My previous keyboard was a Microsoft Natural Elite (ergonomic), and I had very little difficulty switching to this one (one annoyance is the Home/End/Insert/Delete/PgUp/PgDown block above the inverted-T arrow keys is vertically oriented (similiar to the Elite) but with a slightly different arrangement than the Elite which throws me a off a bit from time to time (although actually I think Logitech's arrangement make more sense - the keys are arranged Home, End, (next row) Insert, Page Up, (next row) Delete, Page Down)). The wrist rest is nice, although I would prefer if it were more solidly attached (I got used to picking up my Elite by the wrist rest, which doesn't work out with the Logitech as it'll just come off. However, after a bit I just learned not to do that
I haven't played with the software for the function keys at all (No Linux version, but check out the Linux FunKeys patch for some support).
The mouse is pretty good too. I was a bit reluctant on replacing my trusting Mouseman 97 (similar to the USB gaming mouse) - BEST MOUSE EVER. I've found it's pretty good, although it'd be nice if it were optical. The shape of it, how it sort of fits your hand, is rather comfortable, although I would prefer if it were less bulky. The (additional) middle mouse button on the side is a bit odd but useful when you get used to it. Sometimes I pick up the mouse and sort of use it as a remote when I'm reading a large web page, holding it above the table and just scrolling the wheel.
As to the wireless. Overall, having wireless is rather snazzy. Sometimes I jack up the fonts sizes and recline in bed while I play games. I have a pretty small room, so I can't give you much on the range, but they don't claim more than 6 feet or so. One gripe - the docs say you should put the reciever 18 inches away from any other electronic equipment. Besides the fact there is not much space in my room that meets that suggestion, it's also hard to do since the cord for it is only about 3 feet long. Since I keep my computer under the desk, it's hard to get the reciever in an optimal position (I'm thinking of getting an extension cable and duct taping it to the ceiling or something). Also, occasionally (like maybe once every few days) it'll blip out for a few seconds and miss a few keystrokes/clicks whatever, but that's a minor thing.
An interesting thing about the wireless - if you take a look at both the keyboard and mouse as well as the reciever, there's a small "connect" button that you use when you first set them up (assumedly to pick a transmission key or frequency or something). I noticed at the store there was the same sort of button on the wireless optical mouse they had. So if you prefer the optical mouse, it looks like there's a good chance it will interoperate with this system, but that's just an educated guess.
Speaking of the reciever, the cable comes out to USB plugs. There are also adapters included to use it for PS/2 style ports (for both mouse and keyboard). Interestingly enough, although it says it'll work fine on any USB system (PC or Mac), it recommends you use the PS/2 adapters on PC. I have taken this device to heart and so I can't give you any info on using them USB under Linux or anything. The adapters worked just fine (even when I used them on my old pc - the keyboard was going USB -> PS/2 -> AT).
So all in all, I would recommend this keyboard. It's comfortable to type, well made and very convienent from the wireless angle. The price did turn me off a bit, but I'm glad I went for it
I don't see it here, so I thought I'd give a link to the U.S. Patent that has been awarded for this keyboard. A wealth on information there for anyone curious for more details on how it would word.
One of the odd details in the patent is that they also intend for it to function as a telephone dialing pad, so you can dial your phone without removing your hands from the keyboard. I guess they are interested in the secretary/telemarketer market here...
although I can see this being more useful in zero g space, like the space shuttle, rather that the standard keyboard. Then it could also double as the head for a two fisted joystick for piloting.
;-)
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I still use the same 102-key keyboard that was once upon a time connected to my first IBM-compatible PC back in 1989. Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but then again I've never found another keyboard in today's market that seems to have the same kind of feel and feedback. Today's keyboards feel so mushy and haven't got the kind of click this keyboard does.
By the way, the article perpetuates the myth that the QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow typists down. It wasn't. It was designed to prevent the original mechanical typewriters from jamming. You can type as fast as you like on a QUERTY...
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
The truth isn't hard to see under the FUD: the QWERTY layout was designed to speed typists on the original machine by reducing the frequency of jams. It did this at some cost (of the most frequently used keys, ETAION, only one (A) is on the home row, and that under the left pinky, arguably the weakest finger). It was a reasonable tradeoff at the time but became a standard, with all the attendent entrenched opposition to change. This is where the FUD starts to come in. Dvorak et al overstated the advantages of their alternatives, and this gave the established manufacturers enough room to "debunk" their claims, launching hundred years of bickering.
-- MarkusQ
Whats next, a national ID card?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
I've heard this argument
Its not an argument. Its the reason behind the QWERTY design. Its not like they just put the keys were just thrown on a table and some guy said "this is how it will be laid out." Call that fact an argument is like saying "well, we made the tires on a car round because rubber comes in circles."
Tried a split keyboard once (MS "natural"), couldn't stand it.
I was kind of shocked when I read the email and it said that only 10% of the world is actual touch typist. Comments like this prove the guy right though. In general I have found people that can not use or do not like to use split keyboards are people who can't type correctly.
This has been a shameless attempt at getting undeserved karma by posting other people's work.
OFF TOPIC, but on the same page as the keyboard!!
scroll down all the way to the botom or here is the link:
http://zzz.com.ru/pic98.jpg
It is the triangle problem and to stop many of you from banging your head here is the solution:
The top image is not a triangle... The red and dark green triangle do not form a straight lines and there slopes are different the what should be the slope of the large triangle. The top image is "concave down" while the bottom image is "concave up" The area of the slope when added up makes 1, thus where the box comes from.
Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
Its not an argument. Its the reason...
The reason I call it an argument is that I find many different "reasons" why QUERTY was invented/adopted. A google search turns up many theories about this... the one I link to is the one I hear the most, but on the same site are some myths, including the "slow typists down" and some others I've heard in the past. I tend to agree with the first one, the one I hinted at in my first post, that it was done to keep certain common letter combinations physically separated helping to avoid jamming in typewriters.
In general I have found people that can not use or do not like to use split keyboards are people who can't type correctly.
As I said, I know I don't type "correctly", but I do touch-type (eg, I don't look at the keyboard). I do use the wrong fingers for certain keys, which means using a split keyboard involves a bit of work on my part. As I mentioned earlier, I'm either stubborn or have no patience (or probably just plain lazy).
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
I always thought that the keyboard would lead to wrist/arm pain, but strangely enough, it hasnt. (I got one of those curvy Microsoft deals, and it's sweet.) The mouse arm is now starting to hurt! I leave it perched up on the desk for long periods of time, with very little movement (reading something long, or watching porn) and now I got all kinds of pain. Shooting pains, elbow pains, wrist pains... I think I need to try something before it gets serious.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
All of the stated advantages regarding corded keyboards are totally true, unfortunatly, there is the difficulty of training.
What should the chords be? Is it possible for all different types of corded keyboards to use the same chord to produce the same character? If not (which is the likely case), how many different sets of cords will someone have to learn?
With a traditional one character one key approach someone who has never typed before can be given a keyboard and can pound out a document. With a chorded approach, first a person must sit down and practice the chords. In order to type with any profeciency, one must practice long enough that the chords become part of muscle memory.
Furthermore, some of the corded designs, like the pyramid, would seem to accomidate only one handsize. It would be easy to make several sizes of keyboard, but each person would have to carry around their own keyboard.
The flat arrangement isn't going away any time soon. The QWERTY arrangement might not stay, and 'ergonomic' keyboards based on a flat arrangement are going to become more common, but going to chorded keyboards isn't likely to happen for the general populace because of the extreme amount of training required to operate one.
I have seen other arguments here that it isn't hard to learn DVORAK, so it shouldn't be hard to learn chording, but that's ignoring the most basic and obvious difference. If I can't remember where a particular key is, I can look. If I can't remember a particular chord, I need to look it up. In other words I need something seperate from the (read easily lost) pasted somewhere so I can use the thing. On the other hand If I were placed on a DVORAK keyboard right now I could still post this message. I would just have to use the hunt and peck method rather than the method that I currently use, which is a rather nonstandard form of touch typing, and the occasional look at the hands.
There is a civil war coming in the United States. Remember which side has most of the guns
Ever thought about that most software was designed for the qwerty-layout? (think about some emacs shortcuts...)
So switching to another layout comes with a double effort: you have to learn new letter positions (for typing) and even more annoying the key-combos (CTRL-C, CTRL-A, CTRL-E...) aren't where they feel right.
We see this same symbolism today. Pyramid schemes, for example, which (like their Egyptian counterparts) look impressive to the untrained eye, but really just holds some decomposing remains.
The Great Glass Pyramid of Stockport is the HQ of a bank that can be sure of sharp razor blades, even if they can't be sure of sharp management. About the only redeeming feature of what Prince Charles almost certainly sees as a "monsterous carbuncle" is that nobody is going to bother flying an aircraft into it, making it perhaps one of the safest structures in the world, right now.
Finally, we come to the pyramid keyboard. Invented by Rubix, this device is intended to befuddle, confuse and mystify, and offer hours of frustration. Well, almost. Like all pyramids, it will survive only because of a total lack of wear & tear. As designs go, the only keyboard I've ever used that comes even close to being as unusable & impractical is the Sinclair spongy keypads of the ZX80 & ZX81.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...for unorthodox input devices like this.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
They also use the (non) word "orientate" in their description.
I hate that almost as much as "that being said."
Its not an argument. Its the reason behind the QWERTY design. Its not like they just put the keys were just thrown on a table and some guy said "this is how it will be laid out." Call that fact an argument is like saying "well, we made the tires on a car round because rubber comes in circles."
It's not an argument. It's an urban legend .
The QWERTY keyboard was not in any way designed to slow down your typing, but it was designed to make it less likely that any 2 letters typed would be adjacent to each other on the keyboard. The problems with keyboard jamming happened to be when the typist typed 2 key's adjacent on the keyboard in rapid succession. Instead of designing a slower keyboard, it was decided to design a keyboard that would have commonly used successive keys spread apart on the keyboard.
The sick sad reality is there is no better keyboard design in the world than QWERTY. There may be keyboard designs that are equal in convience as the QWERTY keyboard (like the Dvorak), but no keyboard offers such grand improvments that it's worth changing the current huge install base of keyboards (not to mention the logistics and lost time of retraining everyone).
Now, inevitably a vehement Dvorak enthusiast will reply and tell me how poor the QWERTY design is at keeping adjacent keys from being typed. I will respond in advance by saying: I never said the QWERTY keyboard was perfect at what it was designed to do, however, there is no longer a need to worry about keyboard jamming, so the question still remains.. Why go through a massive change?
I thought someone said there was going to be free beer!
I realize that, using chords, you can get more functions into one hand without forcing the user to look at the keyboard than you can with a standard keyboard. . . but you can still do it with a QWERTY (or similar style of keyboard, regardless of key layout) keyboard. I use Blender, and they did a good job of making sure all the hotkeys were within easy reach of my left hand's fingertips. If people were willing to use hotkeys optimized for position rather than mnemonic(sp) value, we could get the best of both worlds.
Don't know what keyboard you tried, but this Logitech keyboard has the 6 on the left side.