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FiveFingerDiscount.com?
phillippaxton writes: "According to this link, dot-bomb victims are creating their own severance packages, no doubt walking away with the typical office tchotchkes (staplers, tape dispensers, etc.) but also big ticket items such as plush furniture, copiers, high-powered network servers, etc. One anecdote cites someone who lifted $445,549 of equipment, then tried to sell it on eBay as a company liquidating their assets." On the other hand, the fact that it's illegal to stiff your employees out of wages due them, even in a bankruptcy, isn't mentioned in the article...
"Ex-employees thought they were entitled to it,"
.04% of his bad investment back after the fire sale...
Yeah, heaven forbid that these geeks, after putting in 80 hour weeks, would feel they're entitled to anything other than an asskick out the door- far more important that some grasping VC gets
First off while it's wrong to stiff your employees, stealing equipment is just plain thievery. The people that do this are just untrustworthy thieves and the company should have done a better background check to begin with. I can see someone swiping a pen or a blank CD that they burned at work or even postage on the postage machine. These little things are expected by management in the day to day operation. But walking off with a load balancer or ML530 server, or color laser printer? Unbelieveable.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
the fact that it's illegal to stiff your employees out of wages due them, even in a bankruptcy, isn't mentioned in the article...
I have been a victim of this, and am owed approximately $7500 by my former employer, who one day decided not to pay anyone (not lay us off, just not pay us; then offered no explanation for two weeks). Does anybody know what recourse there is for people like me to get the money owed them? And what to do if the corporation for which you worked is dissolved? Can you go after the assets of the CEO and/or other executives? How? Through the Department of Labor (this is New York state) or through a private attorney? What has worked for people in the past?
rooooar
But some things I did take:
;)
Legit sealed copies of Windows 98, Office 2000, etc, which I could use to somewhat legitimize my computer. (at the time)
A fire extinguisher.
Lots of food.
T-shirts.
Half of a video camera. (The building had the eyepiece of an old Beta video camera stuck into the wall to make it look like a security camera. Obviously it wasn't working)
Lots of notebooks, papers, etc, for school.
And, I think that was it....the company never went out of business though; i just took it because no one was using it
If (ex-)employees have a legitimate grievance with their employers, they can bring them to court. If they win, they get paid, and if they don't, they can chalk it up to misfortune and move on. It's ludicrous to suggest that getting stiffed out of wages goes anywhere toward justifying theft.
If they company is too broke to pay the employee wages, then they should be liquidating the equipment themselves, and using it to pay the employees. Or at least find a place for the money to come from. The workers have to eat. I've got no problem with someone taking matters into their own hands if the employer isnt paying them.
Reminds me of a story:
There was this coffeeshop where the owner was really bad at paying the employees on time. So the employees started taking their wages out of the register, and leave a note about how much they took.
Pretty soon they were always paid on time.
The moral of the story: if you want loyal employees, dont treat them like shit. And if you treat them like shit, dont be surprised when little acts of sabotage start happening.
-J5K
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
They may have difficulty blaming themselves when they get laid off, so they direct their anguish at the company.
Uh, hello? If a company goes bankrupt (usually due to a crappy business model or incompetent management), why should the guy at the bottom (secretary, router tech, janitor) blame themselves?
I'd say the 80/20 rule holds true here - 20% of the employees are responsible for 80% of the business. If the 20% aren't doing their jobs, then the remaining 80% have a right to be upset with them. After all, the company does have a responsibility to operate in the best interests of all employees, not just the 20% that form the upper management.
Now, of course, stealing servers, routers and laptops is just wrong, but perhaps this should serve as a wake-up call to the management - it's time to start treating your employees right!
... Wanna Herman Miller Aeron Chair?
Cheap! only $400 and barely used... only the sweat of 3 dot com geeks on it...
Slashdot should include "IANAL" in the article. While there are several state and federal laws to "protect" workers from these types of situations there isn't much in the area of enforcement. In a perfect world the employer is required to tell the staff that they are going to file papers when they decided to draft them. Not after the file. In practice the employees usually find out when they go do work and find a notice pasted to a locked door.
IANAL
I am posting this anonymously for obvious reasons.
The company I work for at the moment is going through chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, before I started they had a history of missing paychecks which many feel will never be payed.
They have not missed any of my paychecks, however they have provided a few hundred dollars worth of equipment so I can work from home instead of relocating to them.
And if I do end up being owed money I may very well choose to take, AS PAYMENT, that equipment, at whatever the market prices are for those parts new at the time (which seems more then fair).
Some may consider that theft, but I honestly can't see how, IF you are honest about it and actually tell the company that you are taking said assets instead of cash if they don't want to pay you.
I do have to wonder how many companys turn around and report such as theft though.
A programmer, who hopes for the best but keeps reality in mind.
>On the other hand, the fact that it's illegal to stiff
>your employees out of wages due them, even in a bankruptcy, isn't
>mentioned in the article...
Uhh, no. That's not the law. There is certainly a breach of contract when an employee does not get paid, but in the absence of prior intent not to pay, it's generally not a crime.
IN bankruptcy, it's a special set of rules. Employee wages up to a fixed amount (I forget the current number) are a priority claim; they get paid before the regular debts (but only to that amount). One of two things happen: 1) they all get paid, or 2) the "self help" took away assets that would have been used to pay all employees.
Walking off with the expensive stuff could solve the former employee's food and housing nees for a couple of years, though . . .
hawk, esq.
Well, if this "Akron-based company" treated their employees anything like my last employer did, it's no surprise. We were told three months ahead of time that we were being laid off, and then security guards were stationed inside the building to watch us all the time.
Nothing quite like making your employees feel like criminals when it comes to making them want to steal things.
--saint
(I know, this is probably chock full o' poor grammar. I just got to work and I'm working on my first cup of coffee. Deal with it.)
You're right Michael - it's okay to steal and loot because some employers can't afford to make their payroll.
Uhh, CmdrTaco? Better keep an eye on Michael when Andover starts running out of cash...
Whenever an employer fucks up a pension plan, or terminates someone without good reason it's always "a shame". But whenever an employee walks away with a printer you can buy for 100 bucks on eBay after their severance package has been cancelled and their pay check bounced, it's "a criminal act".
One computer: $2,000
One oscilloscope: $43,549
Having your story linked to Slashdot: $PRICELESS
For some bankrupcies, there are severance checks. And for others, fivefingerdiscount.
Fivefingerdiscount. It's everything you want to have.
This article is misleading and sensationalistic.
The most common items stolen from tech companies by employees are laptops and handheld computers that cost less than $1,500 per item, asset managers say. But they are also seeing an increase in big-ticket theft.
The writer gives ZERO facts in support of this.
One anecdote cites someone who lifted $445,549 of equipment
The anecdote refers to a MOTOROLA (hardly a dot-bomb) employee. The employee used his "security clearance" to steal a lot of stuff; I'd infer that there were multiple thefts over time while still employed. Either that or Motorola is too stupid to disable employees' access cards when they fire them, or maybe their security guards let people cart out half a million dollars' worth of equipment whenever they feel like it.
The second largest number mentioned is $100,000...
somebody had cut a hole through the wall and stolen $100,000 worth of computers.
This is a flat-out case of robbery robbery. The writer carefully worded it to make it look to a casual reader like an ex-employee had stolen it but gives ZERO evidence for this proposition.
The only news here isn't news...laptops and PDAs walk off. If you call someone and say "Don't bother coming back," they'll take you at your word, even if they've got a company laptop at home.
And all this time, I thought it was OK to blame someone else for getting laid off. Now I come to find it was actually my fault all along.
Guess I ought to give them back their laptop.
You've been hired for your intelligence, use it. There are several ways to tell when its time to leave your company.
1) You work for a DSL Provider thats NOT a bell Leave now.
2) You see your company on FuckedCompany.com.
3) Your stock is delisted, OR your IPO Is "Indefinately put on hold".
4) Your company starts to buy metal folding chairs instead of Areons, saving ~$575.00/ea
5) You have to start *gasp* PAYING for your cokes.
6) You work for a dot-com with an unreasonable business model - I.E. Sending a $4 20 Lb bag of furball litter, overnight priority mail.
7) Your CEO's last job was "PC Technician"
8) Your company holds "Effective Resume Writing" classes or begins offering discounted copies of "Knock 'em Dead".
9) You see a copy of "7 Habits of highly unemployed people" laying on your bosses desk.
Theres more. But if you see any of the above, its a pretty good sign you need to move on.
I worked at one of the massive web consulting shops, and watched it go from 10,000 to about 50 employees before I finally got the golden shitcan award in July. A list of things I saw people steal follows:
-Aeron Chairs
-Dell Servers
-Compaq Servers
-Dell desktops
-Cisco hubs and switches
-Sun desktops
-A pool table.
-Microsoft Natural Keyboards
-Speakers
-Electronic foot massagers (Really.)
-Books
-Any software package known to man
-Laptops
-DLT Cartridges
-Any SCSI equipment you could imagine.
I could probably make this list longer, but I doubt anyone wants to read it.
What I want to know is why people worked for free so long in the first place? I know when my paycheck comes, and if I don't get paid, I don't work. It's as simple as that. I work because I get paid. Why did these people continue to work? That seems like a pretty damn stupid idea. I'd rather sit at home in my PJ's, watching TV and sending out my resume then go into work for free. (And in fact, I was forced to do this once).
It's worth exactly ZERO, as you should know. You can't charge for IP addresses. You can charge an admin fee for the application/assignment process, you can charge for routing them, you can charge for providing transit to them, but you can't charge for the IP addresses themselves. Furthermore, they're not transferable, you'd have to return them to RIPE/ARIN and get them re-allocated.
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
So some companies can also get used to people producing at maxed out levels of production.
I just came out of a Death March culture/company. 2.8 years of ever increasing fantasy expectations (what they wanted us to do) combined with ever decreasing fulfillment of contractual obligations (what they did with respect to their contracts to their employees).
Vacation became regarded early on as "theft from the company" - and was denied. Taking a sick day was regarded with significant suspicion.
Performance incentives (rewards for completing impossible death march projects) were tossed out - and amazingly, the teams would nail them. At the last second, the company's controller would interfer with one of the last steps (like authorizing a leased line to be ordered) and wala... the team would miss the deadline by hours and lose the bonus. Typical 'Lucy taking the football away' behavior.
Then salaries were reduced by 25% "to make the business plan look better to investors" (while senior management still drove leased bullet-proof mercedes, lotuses, ferarris and such) with the 25% to be paid at year end as a balloon payment (don't ever try this, friends!). Except guess what never showed up at year end? Then that was used to string you along to stay at the company - sort of a reverse option: "Quit and you'll never see the $50K+ we owe you!"
Then payroll started slipping. Most of the sane left then. Those who stayed worked for several months without paychecks - buying the promises of great riches. They got booted finally - firing the entire technology office in another part of the country without leaving anyone to control the assets. Their plan? Threaten the just-fired employees to work for free and inventory and package up the goods for shipping, or be accused of stealing anything that goes missing. "If you don't come in next week and ship it to us and something is missing, you know who the investigators will believe kept it."
Many of the former employees held onto items for collateral. Can you blame them? "Pay up the cash you owe and we'll release the equipment back to you." In the various colo centers the company used, the colo venders are using the same approach with respect to getting the past-due bills paid: pay us and we release your equipment.
So what's wrong with this?
*scoove*
I don't know what the law says in the States, but in Canada if you are owed wages, the directors of the company are still liable, even after bankruptcy, and the powers that be (Labour Relations etc.) will conduct forensic audits and go after personal assets of the directors to recover your wages. They even have the power examine and negate transfers of property that are done with the express purpose of hiding financial assets. So if your shyster VC had put his property in his kid's name or set up a shell company, it wouldn't "protect" him and you would still get paid. It takes a while and you have to make some noise, but the only way you won't get paid is if there really are no assets left to seize.
You're using her as bait, Master!
I run a one-man-show which is incorporated for my protection, and of course, tax purposes.
The articles of incorporation (Canadian law, BTW) clearly state that in the event of a bankruptcy, or similar, all money oweing to directors of the company (me), will be paid in full before other debitors.
So, technically, if I declare bankruptcy, I could state that the company owes me $xxx,xxx.xx and hand over the company assets to myself personally, leaving nothing for the debitors.
IANAL, but I think I've got a good one! =-)
Does anyone use something similar, and has anyone had any personal experience putting similar rules into force? I'd really love to know what sort of a leg I have to stand on. Stuff in writing is only worth the paper it's printed on until you test it!
mindslip
In the immortal words of King Missle: