Slashdot Mirror
Motorola Makes Gasoline Powered Cell Phones
Wister285 writes "Well, now that PDAs are integrated with cell phones, you'll need some extra juice to power that thing. Motorola seems to think that the next generation of cell phones needs to be powered by gas (fuel cells). Supposedly these cell phones can last for a whole month without needing to be recharged. Batteries are not being eliminated since the "power plant" of the phone is located on the user's belt. Seems interesting. Gives a whole new meaning to "Fill 'er up!""
..which is powered by my own hot-air.
When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand.
The first paragraph of the article (which is all I bothered to read, but that's still more than CmdrTaco) clearly says "methane gas-powered", not "gasoline powered".
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
Great. As if it wasn't bad enough to share the road with people trying to hold on to a cigarette and a cell phone more than they are hanging on to their 3+ ton SUV. Now they are going to be catching on fire too.
Could this be the "Killer App" for fuel cells?
They won't get cheaper untill there's a mass market, cell phones could be the answer.
Get the EULA T-shirt
...and should the user ever finds him or herself amidst rioting - viola! Molotov phone!
Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen. -Hawking
So the phone is powered by methane? That sure brings new use to going out for Mexican food during lunch. Now instead of rednecks cowtipping you'll have techies running around the pastures trying to capture some of that "natural" gas!
(humor)
~ now you know
Maybe the next version can run off your "hot air". After all, it is methane powered, but I don't think I would like to get that intimate with my cell phone just to make a call. But maybe they could run them off pig farts like they cook meals on woks in some remote parts of China. (I saw it on the Discovery channel.)
"OK, who just farted in here?"
"Oh, that's just Joe using his methane powered cell phone."
I can't wait to be riding in a car/bus/subway full of these things.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
The way i understand it, it works as follows:
1. You buy the fuel cell powerplant which is slightly smaller than a standard battery
2. You keep using you phone as usual - recharging the normal battery when it goes flat.
3. If you are out in the fields with no electricity or in a hotel without your charger, you hook up the phone with the flat battery to the fuelcell to recharge the normal battery
4. After charging the devices are disconnected from each other and you keep using your phone like you are used to...
I kinda like the idea, but hope for flexibility in the fuelcell device. It sure would kick ass if i not only could "refuel" my cell but also my PDA, MP2 player or whatever gizmo is currently hungry.
+++ath0
Methane isn't just a natural resource and can easily be synthesized, hence you can view it purely as a very clean chemical battery: Expend some energy creating a CH4 molecule, and then extract the energy catalyzing with oxygen (or whatever).
I just want my phone to work if I drop it, or at least work under normal circumstances for at least a year. Is introducing MORE moving parts going to make phones more reliable? Charging isn't really a problem now. Most batteries can last for days at a time. At works, you go home every night and drop your phone in the charger. How tough is that? What's the point of adding incredible complexity and expense to phones? So that I can put my phone on my desk instead of in it's charger every night? This is absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, just what I need. A more complicated phone.
I think we can all agree that the standby time on a modern digital cell phone has gotten to the point where most of us are more then satisfied with it. I can go for three or four days without charging my phone if I only use it a few minutes a day. And how many people go three or four days without being able to recharge their phone.
Where this will really come into play is the power cell users. The people that for one reason or another spend most of the day on a cell phone. A college student for example that spends all day on campus but in the course of his day talks to his girlfriend for an hour between classes, his work for an hour, his buddies to figure out what bar to go to that night etc.
One thing that article really didn't get into that I would want answered before I put one of thse on my belt is saftey. If I slip and fall and land on my cell phone I don't want it to erupt into flames. Other then that I can see these doing well even if they aren't needed, for no other reason then the "my cellphone is better then yours" discussion we all get into from time to time.
"You can't fight in here! This is the war room" --Dr. Stra
the radiation of my cell phone and a cell full of methane in the same piece of hardware. I'd start looking at yesterday's story on body powered batteries before I started walking around with methane on my belt. So what kind of emissions do these things put out?
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Imagine you are sitting in the board room of the chief shareholders of your company. You stand to make a presentation...
:-P
Your methane fuel cell leaks.
Now all the shareholders accuse you of nasty farts when they smell you, and you are fired.
I'll stick to my normal cell batteries, thank you very much!!!
Note to moderators: This was a vain attempt at some humor. Gimmie a break
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I was at the Sprint PCS store the other day looking at the Kyocera and Samsung Palm phones. Pretty cool. I have a Palm VIIx with Palm net, but to have a PIM, a network appliance, AND a phone would just be cool. Anyhow, Palm.net charges not by TIME, but by BIT...and this makes sense, as the data services are low-bandwidth and bursty. Just as it should be for a handheld device. Well, just to prove that they JUST DON'T GET IT Sprint PCS charges by the minute. You check your email and there is none: 16 seconds, 110 bytes, $0.39. I can go a whole month on Palm.net for $12, checking my email several times per day. I figured I'd rack up close to $50 on Sprint--and that's not allowing for actually GETTING any mail. I checked in with AT&T, they charge the same.
Apparently, the Kyocera and Samsung phones actually use a digital modem and connect to an ISP, rather than simply talking to the "network" like Palm.net. So you are physically setting up a PPP session with an ISP and running an IP stack. What a bunch of idiots. Wireless data network my ass.
So does anyone know of any providers that actually have a cool phone/Palm/data network worth needing extra battery life--that don't charge by the minute?
Scott
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Not necessary to run around any fields. Every well equipped and resource techie will have the option to purchase a personal refueling system.
They are going to package the thing with a retractable three foot hose equipped with a nozzle, regulator and check valve and a year's supply of discount coupons to Taco Bell.
You can guess what you are expected to do with it.
Methane doesn't stink. It's basically odorless.
Natural gas doesn't smell by itself. Distributors add methyl mercaptan to it in order to make it smell, so that leaks can be found. (Walk up and down the street in front of my house any day of the year and you'll smell it coming from the rather porous old Boston Gas/Keyspan pipes. They make repairs when their leak detector shows the concentration getting scary.) Mercaptan was chosen because it, well, has a strong and distinctive smell. Acetylene smell similar but is itself explosive.
This practice began after a very unfortunate incident in the 1930s. The public school in London, Texas had been heated by gas that was being, uh, skimmed off of a pipeline passing from a nearby well. The connection wasn't exactly professional. A leak sprang, and gas accumulated in the basement, reaching serious concentrations without being noticed. It blew the school sky-high, killing about 200 people, including most of the children, largely wiping the town off the map. (The town, near Tyler, was renamed New London; it now has about 900 inhabitants.)
People nowadays appreciate methane's properties a bit better. A little cartridge to power a fuel cell should not be a problem.
What are the added moving parts to which you are referring? Fuel cells do not use moving parts. Searching on Google took me about 15 seconds to find this page:
http://216.51.18.233/whatis.html
It shows a simple diagram of a fuel cell. It has the same number of moving parts as a conventional battery.
Can someone please change the headline so it doesn't say "gasoline-powered?"
end of line
end of line
This technology appears to be some I've read about previously (as far back as 98). You can see the Los Alamos press release or an ABC News article (with a pic). Both give a little more background and tech info on the cells.
Life is short: void the warranty.
http://www.fuelcells.org/
Good introduction.
Strangely enough, I do recall the proposal to use gasoline for fuel cells, say in cars, for pollution control, etc. The idea is that you need to have a cheap source of hydrogen and oxegen. And you do not what to use tap water because of the impurities. (never mind that producing a system that could handle impurities would cut the legs from under the Oil Companies)
Any number of complex hydrocarbons could be used as a fuel for such a system. Methane is just one.
And the one that some people like is to derive the hydrogen and carbon from ordinary gasoline. Although this is a wild mix of things, it has the advantadge of that it continues to feed the Oil Companies, and it takes advantadge of the distribution system already in place.
Technology is partly based on the profit center, after all.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
"I didn't fart....it was my cell phone battery"
"Get them before they get....
Note that the automotive industry has struggled to make batteries and fuel cells crash-safe. When airlines panic about nail clippers, they're likely to reject anyone boarding a plane with a gas-powered device.
All about me
One, this could allow a cell phone battery to last months, not days. Two, it's a clean independent fuel source. Three, how many moving parts do you think there are? Plug it in, you push down a lever that releases an amount of methane into a chamber. Know how long a Bic lighter can last? Certainly longer than most folks keep their phones. Cell phone makers ALREADY consider their devices disposable. Motorola's Timeport with OLED will burn out with regular use in about 3 years.
Finally, this has more application than just phones. Laptops, PDA units, GPS units, tools, toys could all use this technology. This allows people not to be tethered to power lines to use these devices.
Fuel cells offer a great alternative to conventional energy sources. They promise a cheap portable and realistic power source. Its not a stupid idea. Its a forward thinking idea that has a lot of potential.
Secondly, this was only a matter of time. I hope we switch from methane to hydrogen soon though. Anywho, Scientific American has a pretty informative article on fuel cells in mobile devices. It's a bit old (1998) but still relevant. A quick Google search turned up some more:
CNN: NEC develops fuel cell for handhelds
ABCNEWS: Fuel Cell Batteries Could Power Next Wave of Technology
How would you go about recharging a methane fuel cell? Would you plug it in to the wall? Carry a container of methane gas? How long is the cell life with recharge? Or would you just throw it out and buy a new one?
Gone but not... ummm
Folks,
While using these tiny fuel cells may be great to extend battery life of cellphones, you can forget about bringing such a thing onto an airplane (for obvious security reasons).
Even the equivalent of the volume of ink in most ballpoint pens of methane is enough to cause quite a lot of damage inside the plane, especially inside a pressurized fuselage at altitude.
Don't forget the most important propertis.
-Most of the waste in a standard battery is highly toxic, regardless of which battery technology you choose, with the only differentiating factor being how deadly. The only waste from one of these fuel cells will be a little platic canister that may take eons to degrade, but environmentally will resemble a rock.
-Buy a pack of batteries and let them sit 6 months before you put them to use. How often do you use that flashlight? Do you check to batteries regularly to make sure that it will work when needed? Assuming a reliable enclosure system, methane cells will easily have a shelf life of something bordering on FOREVER!
-Batteries are damned inneficient. AC power is produced from burning fossil fuels, travels over miles of cables, gets stepped down through several transformers, converted to a DC and then very innefficiently charges the battery. Even when your not using you device, the charge slowly drains from the battery due to internal currents. Methane cells will deliver all the energy straight to the device, and energy isn't lost during storage.
There are advantages to miniature feul cells that go far beyond convience.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Mind you, if I smoked I'll dump my lighter in the checked luggage. Especially now the majority of international flights don't allow smoking anyway.
Two things:
1. Why are they running these off of methane? Methane isn't exactly everywhere, you can't just go to the store to refill it. Thus, you are left with either buying new "fuel cell" units for the phone, or building up a new infrastructure to sell methane in small cans for refill - both which equate to more money (for the corps - yay corps!) out of pocket, and more waste for the environment (if the units aren't recycled, etc). Why not use the obvious - compressed butane? Found in every Walgreens on the planet, cheap, hundreds of refills (and probably at the size they are talking about for the fuel cell tank, thousands of refills), delivery system well established, the units would be refillible eliminating waste - the only downside would be that the corps wouldn't have a steady revenue stream in batteries (wah!!).
2. Size - 2"x4"x.5" - why does that have to hang off a belt? The thing could easily go on the back of a phone - sure the phone might be a bit thicker, but IMO, I think cell phones NEED to be bigger, as well as more rugged - I have a friend/brother-in-law who is a truck driver, and his fingers on his hand are easily big enough to cover two buttons on his cell phone, making it difficult for him to dial it or pick up calls. This has caused him a lot of problems, not to mention that the phone lasts about 2 weeks in the dirty conditions he works in (his truck is a 10 wheel dump truck - he hauls dirt, rock, whatever pays). He used to have an old Motorola 9000 classic brick phone - rugged, big buttons - had it for years - hell, I have it now, and it still works fine! Today's phones suck for that kind of environment - make them a little bigger, less screen, larger numbers (its a phukin phone, for cryin' out loud!) - and drop this battery on - perfect.
When are these manufacurer's going to learn that cute != practical?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Cell fuels have the potential to truly make PDA and portable computers these semi-magical thingies that SF authors keep raving about. Add an SVGA microscreen in goggles, a yet-to-be invented data entry method to replace keyboards, and wearable computers are suddenly not a mad dream anymore.
Chemical energy has an energy density (in terms of Watt.hour per kilogram) easily 10-100 times higer than even lithium batteries. And methane is not a neurotoxic, contrary to lithium, cadmium and other nastiums that are used in regular rechargeable batteries.
Of course, I tend to favor alcohol-based fuel cells. Not only do they present less explosion risks than methane cartridges or tanks, you could also refuel your laptop with a squirt of vodka... :-)
Now, before long, some journalists will misread that press release and start ranting about revolution in transportation. As a slashdotter, your sacred duty is to thwap them with a physics manual. Or even better, write to their editors and remind them that fuel cells are not a generating but a storage technology.
In order to produce methane or alcohol, you need either petroleum byproducts (and hence oil) or a lot of energy. And do I mean a lot. Of course, you can produce methanol artisanally, but a sustained production cannot rely on cottage industry methods that, BTW, generate huge quantities of waste. Have you ever been downwind of a still when it's dumped after a batch of fermented molasses has been boiled? Not a pretty smell, believe me.
So next time you hear a tree-hugger^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H environmentally conscious fluffhead raving about nature-friendly, fuel-cell powered busses, heartily approve and remind them to support the construction of that nuclear power plant we'll need to generate said nature-friendly fuel. That generally does the trick.
#insert<cynicalsmirk.h>
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
Do the same thing that they're starting to do for candy and pastry wrappings. Apply a thin layer of aluminum. It only takes a few microns. Check out the wrapping the next time you eat a PopTart.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba