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Do Manufacturers Adequately Support Their Products?
Chris Edwards asks: "I've been having quite a few problems with Dell support recently, and would like to ask the Slashdot community a question. To what extent should computer manufacturers support their product? I own a Dell Inspiron 7500
laptop, which has been plagued with problems since the day I purchased it.
The Inspiron 7k series were the first from Dell to take advantage of the new
15"/15.4" screens that had become available. They made one very tiny
mistake; they didn't change the hinges to support these gigantic LCDs. The
hinges on my laptop have broken four times since I purchased it two years ago. To put this into perspective: 8% of the time that I've owned my laptop, it's been in for repair. Should Dell just replace the laptop? Their support department doesn't think so; what do you think?" Dell isn't the only guilty party here. I'm sure you all have had your share of hardware support stories, the recent Ask Slashdot on IBM Deskstars is another example of this. Which manufacturers have a real bad track record of this kind of behavior?
How do they owe you a new one? What they may owe you is to fix the design flaw by correcting it, instead of just putting back the new hinges that will break. You paid for a laptop, and you've had the better part of two years to use it, I don't think you can reasonably think you deserve a brand new laptop because you may treat the hinges a bit harder then the next person.
I doubt the tech people you talk to even have the ability to replace the laptop.
You ask to speak to a supervisor, if that person can't help, they must have a customer relations or complaint group you can place a formal complaint with. I'm sure the superivisor can point you in that direction.
The intersting bit is the support contract. We seldom use it. Typically, our own Computing Services techs are modifying units when they come in the door (some of our labs need zip drives, but the administration doesn't purchace them... so we add them on site. As an example). But the other factor has been response time. Even though we have a support contract, it's simply easier to say "We can fix this. Fix it now and send the broken part back to Gateway."
So how good is the support when we really need it? I have no idea... Computing Services answer to my problems with the Dell on my desk has largely been "You shouldn't be trying to do that anyway so it's not really a problem..." Ah well... that's another can of worms...
If I can't see it in Lynx I'm not interested.
It would not even cost you anything, since we have something called a 'Small Claims court' which deals with consumer disputes such as this.
I don't know if you have such a thing over there. Another angle to try would be the credit card company. In the UK, the credit card company is jointly liable for anything you purchase with it. So there is another avenue to explore.
Finally, how the hell can they claim that a laptop display with three or less broken pixels is 'acceptable' ? You can bet that Michael Dell's laptop screen has all its pixels functioning.
As in all things, the squeaky gear gets the grease, so complain, complain loudly, complain often. Make it cost-ineffective for them to mess you around.
To what extent should a product be supported? I think the fact that someone can seriously ask that question makes a statement about the mindset of the computer industry when it comes to backing up their products. This has been said time and time again; in no other industry do people accept such high product failure rates! I think it's really that simple. That something is expensive doesn't mean it shouldn't be expected to work almost perfectly (perhaps just the opposite). Companies must take whatever steps are necessary to completely alleviate problems with their products within any time period they've specified. If a laptop has a 1-year warranty and the customer has a problem in that year which the company can't get figured out in a week, they shouldn't be able to say "replacing the motherboard is too expensive so we can't help you." And if they're having a lot of problems like that crop up and they're losing money because they have to replace so many motherboards, they shouldn't be allowed to screw customers; it's their suppliers' fault, sue them. Bottom line: there is no accountability for lousy products in the computer industry, and that needs to change.
Sun Microsystems has some of the best support around. When I have problems with Sun hardware, I call them and tell the what part I need replaced. Then they send the replacement, I send back the old stuff, and swap the parts myself. If I can't handle a problem, they send a tech out within 24 hours to troubleshoot and fix the problem. And this is all under standard warranty; with a nice service contract you can get two hour turnaround on five year old hardware.
True Story...
t ml
A little while back, my old flatbed scanner quit working. It had had heavy use, and was several months out of warranty, so I figured it was a write-off.
I did my research and tried to pick the best USB scanner out there in terms of price, features, and reliability. I ended up with an Acer 640U flatbed scanner. It's a nice scanner, and works preotty well. It's advertised to work with Windows 9x, 2000, MacOS, and Linux, if I remember correctly.
Well, I work under W2k for the great deal of my multimedia and graphics tasks. Just after a fresh install of the Operating System, the scanner works like a champ. However, after more than a little bit of use, the driver starts malfunctioning. Obviously a DLL conflict or something similar, right?
Well, a quick call to Acer to try to track down the conflict let me know that I was not privaleged to phone support any more because my product was out of warranty. Do they offer per-incident pricing for phone support?
http://www.acercm.com/support/technical_support.h
Apparently not. Even if they did, I could probably spend less on a brand new scanner than I could on 1 or 2 hours of support calls.
I resorted to newsgroup and messageboard searches for problems like mine, but couldn't really find any. I'm certain we've all had problems like this before, right? Where we are absolutely the onle ones to have them?
So, after a while, I tried emailing Acer's support like the page linked above suggests. I included detailed system specs including hardware specs, OS installed, a fairly comprehensive list of software installed, error codes and anything else I could think of. I specifically stated in the email that I thought that my problem was being caused no doubt by a software conflict, and asked for help tracking down the conflict.
The reply I received was along the lines of:
"Apparently there is a software conflict between the Acer driver and software applications installed on your system if your scanner will work with other computers. You should try to track down this conflict and uninstall the confilicting software."
This is adding insult to injury in my opinion. Either the support staffer who answered my mail was so untrained as to be useless, which is a real possibility in any support staff, or he or she didn't care, or had been instructed not to provide specific help to email support problems. So, despite the fact that the Acer scanner is actually a very good scanner, the software can't be trusted to keep working, and Acer's support of that software is in no way useful.
Sorry guys. Next time, I'll buy the Agfa Scanner.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I have a Dell 7000 at home and I like it.
It also uses the 15" display but I never had the hinches break or anything like that, but who knows, maybe they decided to make them thinner on the 7500.
Yet, it wasn't without problems.
On the first Dell I got the Keyboard stopped working after two days. They wanted me to ship my unit back to get it repaired. After making clear that I am pissed, that this is a one week old computer I got a replacement within 24 hours (nice). I transplanted my HDD and thought I was off for good now, only to realize 3 days later that the HDD died on me. Luckily I hadn't returned the old one yet put the original HDD in and everything worked fine.
6 Months later the DVD ROM went. It couldn't read the DVDs anymore but CDs were fine. I had moved to Europe at that time and when I called Dell they told me I am out of luck because Dell Europe has nothing to do with Dell US, my warranty didn't cover it (great), so I lived with a defective DVD ROM.
6 months later I moved to Canada, and 2 months after that the Drive stopped working alltogether. Again I was calling Dell and I heard the same story: Dell Canada has nothing to do with Dell US. Again I raised hell, escalated it and they finally agreed to send me a replacement (I have to say the Dell Canada people were very nice and helpful).
A week later I had a new DVD ROM, only problem: Instead of sending me a "swap" unit together with the Floppy drive attached to it, they only sent me the DVD ROM drive. Fine, no problem, unscrew everything, reassemble it, done. When I called them back and asked them why they did this they told me that this was the wrong part, usually they send out complete units for customer maintenance, but apparantly a technician was supposed to do the swap for me. Oh well, no harm done.
A month after that the Display went, or better the lower third of it. Same thing again, calling Dell explaining why an AMERICAN Notebook needs service in Canada, no problem this time. They have a technican call me.
A week later (some scheduling conflicts on my end) the guy drove up to work and replaced the display in the office.
So: Even though I had some bad experience with Dell and it's international Support, in the end I could get what I needed.
Would I buy another one? Yes, because Dell isn't worse or better than anyone else.
Michael
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
That was Monday. Tuesday Airborne Express shows up with a box. I signed for it. Opened it up and inside was foam packaging for my TiPB and a Return Airborne Express slip. So I put the PB in it and called Airborne Express. They were back an hour later and picked up the box and shipped it to apple. (This is all at apples Expense) So. I send it out Tuesday. On Thursday my Powerbook is back in my hands and in Primo condition.... How cool is that?
I said it once, I'll say it again. Apple Rocks. If you think otherwise... You most likely haven't used one.
--------========+++Dont Feed The Lab Techs+++========--------
When someone asks me, "What is the best computer?" I always give them the same response:
The one you build yourself. If you build it yourself you open up whole new worlds of possilibites that most OEMs never even consider. Want to use high quality Power Supplies, Motherboards, Cases, etc...? No problem. Want an all IEEE 1394 PC? No problem? Want a super nice sound card and a low end/no video card? Hey, you can do that.
Even better is how these days most connections are keyed (especially on the high quality stuff) and most components ship with sane defaults (cable select on IDE devices for instance) so you can just plug it all in and go. Generally I find I tend to pay a bit more for a machine I build myself, but that's because I tend to buy the more expensive parts and avoid cutting corners. I figure it's much cheaper than replacing that ultra-cheap noname HD 6 months down the road.
I read the internet for the articles.
I totally agree about Dell Inspirons being total crap. After my workplace had 6 of them with the hinge problem and then 3 more bugger up on the power switch, ALL of the Dells were returned. Dell lost quite a bit O'business there.
OTOH, The -best- technical support I *ever* had came from the folks of 3Ware. It was nice talking to a tech-support person who knew what they were saying and getting questions answered, instead of someone just reading you a book, then e-mailing you answers to your questions via email 5 days later. I even got passed to a Real Live Engineer when the tech support person was stumped on a question. Kudos to them!
/*drunk.. fix later*/
At my old job I had a Dell Inspirion 7000. It was a decent laptop. Then one day the ethernet card refused to work after rebooting. It did that both under winblows and linux. Typically in those cases I have found that the hardware is hosed. So began my month of dealing with Dell's "award winning" tech support. Personally whoever gave them that award totally overlooked the unix vendors. I've had far less headache dealing with either HP or Sun for support. HP was a hassle since they refused to believe their hardware was at fault, so you always had to open the call as software, then get the software guy to agree with you, get transferred to the hardware guy, who wanted the part's serial number before sending the field guy out for support. Sun on the other hand, sent the guy with the part without the hassle. Soooo needless to say I was expecting this sort of support out of Dell.
Wow was I mistaken. Each time I called them it was at least a 4 hour session, with vast stretches of time being placed on hold, or sitting in some call queue. Nevermind I have already determined it was the ethernet card that was having trouble. The tech I spoke with insisted on following his script in front of him. "Have you re-installed windows?" He about went nuts when I mentioned the system was a dual boot system. Pretty much his answer was reinstall with windows only and call back. *click* Nice.
Called back, waited in phone queues some more, got another guy who went through same script. This time I didn't mention Linux. He arranged to have the laptop shipped to them to be fixed. But I was to keep all peripherals, HD, ethernet card and so on. Humm, why is the laptop going back and not the broken ethernet? *shrug* Back it went. Two weeks later I got it back. This time the LCD wouldn't work. Swell. Back in the phone queues, and another 4 hours blown. Shipped laptop back again.
Two weeks later, got the laptop back...this time the keyboard didn't fully work, and other wacky problems. 4 more hours on the phone and shipped it back again.
Another two weeks, laptop arrives, finally works again. But original problem still exists. Called Dell again. Waited in phone queue for a few more hours, got a guy, who pretty much was telling me to ship the laptop back to them again. *sigh* I told him that wasn't the problem, it was the bloody ethernet card--ship me a new one. Put me on hold. Came back and said he couldn't do that. Told him I'm sure he can swap the ethernet card. Back on hold. Came back and wanted *my* credit card number to charge me for the card, and then refund *my* credit card when they recieved the old one. Told him that was unacceptiable, as this was *work's* laptop. Back on hold. Came back and said that's all he could do. Asked for his boss. Back on hold. Came back and said sure, we'll send you the card, as long as you ship back the old one. Like I wanted to keep a broken ethernet card....right.
Needless to say, because of their lousy tech support, I will not buy a Dell system for myself, let alone recommend it to anyone. That and I also saw the two other Inspirion 7000's that work bought at the same time as mine have many many more problems than mine ever did. I was lucky in that I got the good one of the batch.
"If you insist on using Windoze you're on your own."
I've worked at one or two jobs where they told me I could move on into Programming or other interesting areas after I've worked at Tech Support for a while and maybe gotten some certifications. I hope this uy has something in writing or he may be stuck in tech support for longer than he thinks.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
That said, in every state (and Dell has a business presence in every state which is why they always have to charge sales tax) there is an implied warranty of merchantability that comes into effect as soon as the sale is completed. This warranty is in addition to any written warranty from Dell. Under the federal Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, for consumer sales, sellers are not allowed to disclaim this warranty.
The warranty essentially requires that the product you buy be of average fair quality. Four broken sets of hinges is not "average fair quality" IMHO. Additionally, in many, if not most, states there are consumer protection statutes that provide for up to 3X your damages (cost of the computer) plus attorneys fees.
Finally, in some states (Massachusetts is one) for sales to consumers the CONSUMER has the option of demanding a repair, replacement or a refund. Most written warranties state that it is the manufacturer's option to repair or replace.
Hope this gives you some information you can use and I wish you luck.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
My reasoning for this was that while they may say "business addresses only," it's easy to bring a laptop to the office. A field person may not be able to do anything to fix a laptop, but the other comfort is that in theory at least it gives you more leverage if there is a problem and you have to push for a resolution - if it's a continuing problem, there's the implied threat that you'll keep calling and they'll have to keep sending someone out. Eventually the third-party company that they contract with for field service may start giving them flack because of all the calls, and if you get the same field service person regularly they may have more clout with the manufacturer's tech support. Besides, the cost increase isn't that much, maybe a couple hundred dollars that spread over the life of the machine is insignificant compared to the cost of sending it away for weeks.
One thing I have learned though: when buying a laptop, find out what it takes to remove the HD so you can yank it (at least to make a backup) before sending the machine in. I've heard enough horror stories from people whose systems died, they couldn't extract data & didn't have a good backup, they sent it in for service and got it back with the drive restored to the original shipping configuration.
fencepost
just a little off
This is kinda long, but I thought you might enjoy this little exchange
8 176_eng_man.html
8 176_eng_man.html
8 176_eng_man.html
between me and Hewlett-Packard customer support. It gets funner as you
get further down. The last line is almost too funny to be true.
I bought an HP Deskjet printer. It came with a hardcopy "Quick Reference"
guide, which made reference to a more complete "User's Guide", which was
nowhere to be found. It also came with an on-line "Quick Help" when the
software was installed. I went to HP's customer support web site to ask
about the "User's Guide". The following is from my entry in their web
submission form. The subsequent email conversation was edited for formatting
and to remove superfluous boilerplate.
CV> problem_description : Page 3 of Quick Ref Guide refers to page 6 for
CV> opening up the on-line User's Guide, but page 6 says to run the CD-ROM
CV> setup program and select "View User's Guide". But there is no "View
CV> User's Guide" on the main HP Deskjet install screen. So, the problem is
CV> that I can't find the full User's Guide. The only available on-line
CV> documentation is the "Quick Help". Where is the full User's Guide?
And HP's reply:
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you need user manual for your HP Deskjet 960Cse
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> The user manuals are provided on the HP web site. Please click on the
HP> link given below to download the user manual.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet92
HP>
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Hello-
CV> Thank you for providing me with the link to the documentation page at
CV> HP's web site. Unfortunately, I checked that page and the only documents
CV> available are:
CV> 1) Windows XP Update Guide
CV> 2) Quick Reference Guide (hardcopy of which came with the printer and
CV> referred me to the User's Guide)
CV> 3) Quick Help (which is installed locally from the CD-ROM included with
CV> the printer).
CV>
CV> The Quick Reference guide distinguishes the "User's Guide" from the
CV> "Quick Help" and the "Quick Reference Guide". So apparently there is a
CV> document called the "User's Guide" which I have yet to be able to
locate.
CV> It is not included in hardcopy format, it is not installed from the
CV> CD-ROM, and it is not on the Website. Have I missed anything?
CV>
CV> thanks,
CV> Chris Volpe
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you have an issue with the users guide for the
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> To download the manual, please go to the link below.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet92
HP>
HP> On the web page, right click on "HP Deskjet 990C, 980C, and 960C
HP> Printers - (Multiple Languages) Quick Reference Guide" and select " save
HP> target as" option from the list to proceed with the downloading of the
HP> manual.
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Alex-
CV>
CV> Thank you again for your reply. For the third time, I feel the need to
CV> point out that the information at that site is NOT WHAT I'M LOOKING
CV> FOR. As I already stated, I have the Quick Reference Guide. It came
CV> with the printer. It came in hardcopy form, and is identical to the
CV> Quick Reference Guide that you advised me to download from the web
CV> site. But the Quick Reference Guide is DIFFERENT FROM the User's
CV> Guide. The Quick Reference Guide, on page 3, draws a distinction
CV> between itself and the User's Guide. There's a table on page 3 that
CV> tells what documentation to consult in order to obtain certain
CV> kinds of information. The second row in that table refers to the
CV> "User's Guide". The third row in that table refers to the "Quick
CV> Reference Guide". And the fourth row in the table points to the
CV> "Windows Network Guide". I already have both the Quick Reference
CV> Guide and the Windows Network Guide. But the elusive User's Guide
CV> is nowhere to be found. It was not included with the printer, and
CV> it is not available for download from the web page you pointed me
CV> to. I would be most grateful if you would help me find the USER'S
CV> GUIDE. Not the Quick Reference Guide, which I already have, but the
CV> USER'S GUIDE. I look forward to hearing from you, and I hope that
CV> this time I have adequately and clearly explained the problem.
CV> Thank you very much in advance for your help.
CV>
CV> Sincerely,
CV>
CV> Christopher Volpe
HP> Hello Christopher,
HP>
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you have an issue with the users guide for the
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> To download the manual, please go to the link below.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet92
HP>
HP> On the web page, right click on "HP Deskjet 990C, 980C, and 960C
HP> Printers - (Multiple Languages) Quick Reference Guide" and select " save
HP> target as" option from the list to proceed with the downloading of the
HP> manual
HP>
HP> In the U.S.
HP> -----------
HP> To order User's Guides, contact HP Parts Direct Ordering at
HP> 800-227-8164.
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Alex-
CV> Could you please pass my support request on to someone else who is
CV> willing to read my message and understand, as I have stated three
CV> times already, that I do not need the Quick Reference Guide, which you
CV> persistently advise me to download? I'm sure there must be someone
CV> there who is willing to take the time to understand the issue and not
CV> keep sending me the same response. Thanks very much.
CV>
CV> -Chris
HP> Hello Christopher,
HP>
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you require the full User's Guide for your DJ 960Cse
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> I would like to inform you that the full version of the User's Guide for
HP> your printer is not available. The only manuals available for your
HP> printer are the Quick Help and the Quick Reference Guide. For further
HP> assistance or more information, I suggest you contact HP Phone Support.
HP>
HP> It is HP's goal to assist customers as quickly and as efficiently as
HP> possible. It sometimes is much easier to resolve the issue when
HP> talking live with a technician. The phone number in the US is
HP> 208-323-2551. Business hours are Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to
HP> 10:00 p.m. MT and Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.MT.
HP>
HP> Other HP Customer Care phone numbers can be found in your User's Guide
When I read that last sentence, I nearly fell out of my chair.
-Chris
The service plan is something that's essentially pure profit for the retail chains. As you've read, the support they actually provide isn't at all worth it. Contrast this with the miniscule profit margins for the computer itself. The management of these stores would rather have the inventory on hand in case the next guy is a sucker than sell it to you without the service plan.
I spent three months working at Best Buy and this was essentially drilled into my brain. I can't tell you how many times a manager took me into a back room because I didn't push their silly service plan when I had to watch people get screwed over said plan at the customer support desk 5 minutes beforehand. I've also seen a laptop (one of the items they don't stock very much of) suddenly become "out of stock" when it became clear that the customer wasn't buying the service plan.
You're pretty much doing them a favor by walking out without buying the plan.
Game... blouses.
Well, it look like I am an exception but I had very good experience with Dell support. Two years back, I was a tech monkey for a school board. We had a lot of abused hardware under warranty. When I needed a replacement, I gaved them a call, gaved them my support code (a sticker on the back of the machine with a 5 character code) and request a replacement. They shipped me a replacement overnight and I shipped them back the defective part in the same packaging. That's all. Ho, I don't remember to have been on hold for more than 10 minutes, too.
I had similar experience with Compaq in a subsequent job, and with IBM in my current one.
Maybe it is because we where a big customer (a few dozens machine a year), or because we are in Canada. I don't know. But considering my experience I always recommend brand name (Dell/IBM/Compaq/HP) to business. I must not be the only one !
:wq
It's pretty clear that providing decent support is a good way to bankrupt your company.
Assume about 5% of machines have a problem. Average support is perhaps $300. (Tech support on an hourly basis is *incredibly* expensive when you factor everything in. The tech guy is pretty much the cheapest thing. Add in the cost of part, shipping, paperwork, etc.)
Well, the profit margin on a computer might be (after all costs) $30. It comes down to the fact that as soon as you provide decent tech support, every call probably costs you the profit you earned on 10 machines!
If you never have the unhappy customers buy a machine again, you lose 5% of your customers. On the other hand, you're gaining from the 5% of people who bought from other companies and didn't get decent tech support.
You *might* gain an extra few percent from people who've heard that you have good support, but in all likelihood, many of them will require tech support, (which is why they want to use you) in which case you lose your shirt again.
If you raise your margins so that you can provide decent support, then you lose sales massively. The market is almost entirely price bound. There is no equivalent of BMW or other names that "mean quality" that people are willing to pay for (despite what Apple would desperately hope for).
Somebody claimed that Dell's support has gone through the floor. But killing decent support is what has enabled them to lower the price of their machines and kill the competition.
Of course, with razor margins they can't afford to replace a defective machine. Their only choices are to
(1) Raise their prices so they can afford to replace mechines with design defects (= backruptcy),
(2) Innovate only incredibly slowly so they can catch any possible design defects (= backruptcy), or
(3) stiff you.
The only way a company can afford to provide support is to make it a seperate chargeable item. That way the profits on the support contracts can pay for actually providing decent support.
Same with dealers. Any dealer that actually had a large enough margin to provide service or support went bankrupt 10 years ago.
Of course, the only thing that can reverse this is laws to avoid it. Unfortunately, local (i.e. state) laws don't work. Local shops go under as customers buy from states without the laws in order to get a better price.
In other words, don't expect decent support any time soon.
IANAL, so I'll not weigh in with more opinions on the particulars of this case.
What I will say is that, as a computer parts, peripherals, and software consumer, product support is incredibly poor. I recall downloading drivers for my Creative Labs soundcard and having said download render my system non-bootable. E-mails to tech support went unanswered for two weeks. How did I get a response? Started a script that e-mailed them once per minute. "I must assume that your e-mail is not working..."
Calls to my cable modem provider, Cox Communications of Fairfax, VA, are answered by incompetents, disconnected, or just result in a fast busy. When an HP CD writer failed, HP wanted me to dial a 900 number for "tech support" when all I wanted to know was where to send it for repairs (they cost more at the time than now). I tried calling Microsoft to report a bug in IE6. They wanted to charge me to take the call! What a racket: Put in thousands of annoying bugs and then charge people who try to report them!
The software industry has become incredibly arrogant. They sell you a "license" and disavow all responsibility for making the package work. Tech support often costs money -- even when the problem is the publisher's fault. They seem to feel that taking your call at all is doing you a tremendous favor and think nothing of leaving you on hold for half-an-hour while playing you pre-recorded lies about "unusually heavy call volumes" (for the last year and it's still "unusual") or how "important your call is" (if it was so damned important, why don't you hire enough people to answer the phones?).
I can only hope that the downturn in computer-related purchases will make them hungrier for sales and more responsive to customer needs.