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Rolling Your Own Laptop?
rneches asks: "I've been looking around for a Linux friendly laptop, and I've found a
couple of reasonable systems. However, there really aren't any laptops out there that really meet the needs of a Linux user.
In particular, most laptops are, more or less, desktop replacements.
As such, they are loaded with scads of nifty features, beefy
processors, and so forth. This is great, I suppose, if you are
running Windows or MacOS and want a desktop replacement. If you're a
Linux user, and spend most of your time in emacs windows (er, frames), most of that fancy stuff is more of a liability than an asset. In other words, I'm talking about coders, admins and other Linux hackers more than I'm talking about the 'average user'." In short, rneches is looking to find a way to build his own laptop, and if the platform doesn't exist to be able to do this, he's looking for help in creating one. Interested?
Which brings me to my point - Is it possible to roll your own laptop? I've looked at pc104 systems that might do the job for a base, and flash disks that would be great for storage and battery life, but the video, screen and enclosure are all somewhat of a mystery to me. I've taken apart Dells and (shudder) Sonys, and the video hardware is completely non-standard and funky. Each major brand of LCD has a different connector, and require a special (as in, not your average VGA compatible card) hardware to drive them. I'm not sure where I'd get a decent PS/2 keyboard that would be appropriate for a laptop. And as for the case itself - well, I'd probably need take out some life insurance, and then get in touch with those folks from the /. story a few months back about making storm trooper costumes from vacuum molded PVC.
I know this sounds like something of an absurd project, but then again, there once was a day when building a desktop PC was an absurd project. The pc104 standard seems like a pretty good standard to use in the same way desktop system use AT and ATX. Most of the pc104 boards are intended for ultra low power embedded systems, but there's no reason I can see that beefier chips couldn't be used. You'd have to give up the spiffy ZIF sockets, but laptops aren't really that upgradable anyway. Chances are, there's already a pc104 board that will do just about anything you want at very low power consumption. You could cram two or three pc104 boards into a really thin laptop (side by side, not stacked).
If someone started making pc104 video cards that could drive a host of different LCD screens, that would help a lot too. And, of course, someone would have to make some decent cases.
Is there anyone out there who's tried this? Any successes, I hope?
If I actually did go out and build my own laptop, do you think there would be enough general interest to get a community together? Maybe even start a little company to sell pc104 compatible laptop shells and the various adapters, trackpads, keyboards and other doodads that people would need?"
"From a laptop, I want five things:
- A nice, clear screen. Color is nice, but not critical. It should be big enough so that looking at it doesn't make me feel like I'm stuck in the coach section of a DC-9.
- Decent 2D video performance. I might just be editing text, but at least it should look good while doing it. In any event, with decent a framebuffer and hardware acceleration, I can use nice anti-aliases fonts and play around with the window settings. This might sound frivolous, but nice-looking text and windows go a long, long way to relive eyestrain, which is exceedingly important.
- Good physical utility. Too many laptops seem to be designed to sit on your desk, with the occasional trip to some other desk (transported in a deluxe, custom leather briefcase). This is OK if you are, say, the CEO, and don't do any real work in the first place. I want a laptop that is durable, light and small. I don't want to have to transport it in a special bag, or worry about fragile bits getting broken from normal use.
- Insanely long battery life. I don't mean 'barely survive the flight from NWK to LAX'. I mean 'I'm only going to be in Tokyo for a week, so I won't need the AC adapter.'
- Good built-in networking. No PCMCIA stuff, dongles, or other junk. The system should have a respected 100base-T card built in, and probably an 802.11b card and high-gain antenna as well.
Which brings me to my point - Is it possible to roll your own laptop? I've looked at pc104 systems that might do the job for a base, and flash disks that would be great for storage and battery life, but the video, screen and enclosure are all somewhat of a mystery to me. I've taken apart Dells and (shudder) Sonys, and the video hardware is completely non-standard and funky. Each major brand of LCD has a different connector, and require a special (as in, not your average VGA compatible card) hardware to drive them. I'm not sure where I'd get a decent PS/2 keyboard that would be appropriate for a laptop. And as for the case itself - well, I'd probably need take out some life insurance, and then get in touch with those folks from the /. story a few months back about making storm trooper costumes from vacuum molded PVC.
I know this sounds like something of an absurd project, but then again, there once was a day when building a desktop PC was an absurd project. The pc104 standard seems like a pretty good standard to use in the same way desktop system use AT and ATX. Most of the pc104 boards are intended for ultra low power embedded systems, but there's no reason I can see that beefier chips couldn't be used. You'd have to give up the spiffy ZIF sockets, but laptops aren't really that upgradable anyway. Chances are, there's already a pc104 board that will do just about anything you want at very low power consumption. You could cram two or three pc104 boards into a really thin laptop (side by side, not stacked).
If someone started making pc104 video cards that could drive a host of different LCD screens, that would help a lot too. And, of course, someone would have to make some decent cases.
Is there anyone out there who's tried this? Any successes, I hope?
If I actually did go out and build my own laptop, do you think there would be enough general interest to get a community together? Maybe even start a little company to sell pc104 compatible laptop shells and the various adapters, trackpads, keyboards and other doodads that people would need?"
It will save you much aggrivation and probably a lot of money as well.
PC104 is an old, but still very usable reference platform for building embedded devices.
Hit this google link
Google Search on PC104
It has a much greater use/life in Europe than it ever did here in the States.
The little modules are stackable, and they make little "backplane" like boards for you to put the modules.
Or as Egg Chin in Big Trouble in Little China said, "Its like your salad bar -- we take what we want, and leave the rest for everyone else"
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
The TiBook G4 has almost _EXACTLY_ the features you want.
It runs Yellow Dog Linux very, very nicely.
And the wide-screen aspect ratio on its display is FANTASTIC for running side-by-side xterms....
--nbvb
Tuxtops used to do it but are now focusing on software. Their hardware buisness is being handled by QLITech Personally, when I wasnt using x, an old Compaq presario 1210 running Slackware worked well (except of course the modem. Now I am running a Sony Vaio PCG-FX240 with Red Hat 7.2, and it has no problems (except the modem, which I have no need for with broadband everywhere I use it. ). (Slack install didnt go as well as I would have liked...) A great deal of useful info can be found on the Linux on laptops page.
Have you read the Moderator Guidelines yet?
> So, basically, I want a tough little
> system with a StrongARM CPU, a flash
> disk and grayscale 1024x768 LCD.
> Insofar as I can tell, no one makes
> such a thing.
RiscStation is about to issue an ARM-Powered laptop...
And RiscOS machines support ARMLinux or RiscBSD (even though I 'd advice you to just keep using RiscOS which is far more intuitive and performant on such platforms)...
Anyway, the product is not ready yet but you may hear about it *very* soon.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
I own a Sony Vaio (Superslim series, PGC-Z505), and it has nearly anything you're looking for. It really lacks in battery life time. 2hrs if you VI on it. But you can buy a "6hrs" battery, that means you can VI on it for 6 hrs. And then you'll still have the 2hrs battery shipped by default... well I guess you could fill in your suitcase with batteries. Other thing that sucks is 64MB of RAM. But I don't really notice it with Linux (but default OS: WinME aghhhhh...).
I installed a Debian on it with NO problem, even if I had no CD rom, not even an external one. Builtin networking is enough - quite good, not a 3com but having in my home network with just 3coms and a kickass switch the Vaio integrated well.
It is small (letter paper sized x 1inch) and light (3lbs maybe), but has a max res of 1024x768 (there are some smaller ones which only have 600x800). Didn't get the modem working.
And I find it really nice. That's also a reason I bought it, but I don't think you actually care.
But if you really want to build your own... well, if you have the money to buy the parts and the patience to put it all together I think it will be at least a very instructive activity and you'll learn a lot from it. I'd like to hear of the result.
You may want to check out CyberResearch they have alot of NEMA-12 and NEMA-4 Compliant 'portables' that may suit your needs. They have ALOT of other interesting equipment as well. I used to work for them - they are a very reputable company, and although the stuff they sell is on the pricey side, its well worth it.
Don't Tread on Me
I agree.
My F250 Vaio came with Win98.
I shifted that quicksmart
Put Mandrake 7 on it,
got the Irda working, PCMCIA came working out of the box.
Come Mandrake 7.1, Irda stopped, but USB started working for my CPIA webcam. Very cool, but I couldn't dial out from my cellphone anymore.
7.2 had pretty much the same results
Installed Win2k, and it works, and is sort of stable.
I use Mandrake 8.0 on my file server/devbox, and dual boot, win98/Mandrake 7.2 on my girlfriends machine for games, and win2k on my SMP BP6 workstation/game box.
I would love to run Mandrake on my Laptop again, becuase it was so much faster than win2k, but as a whole win2k has been more compatable with my day to day laptop needs of the occasional game of Command and Conquer, getting mail, and using my wireless lan card (yes I know my wifi card can be used in Linux), getting sound that worked without blackmagic, and irda transfer, and dial out.
BTW when I did get IRDA working in Mandrake 7, I did get the file transfering from my cellphone working in linux fatser than one the guys at work got it working on his Win98 Laptop.
A Skoda is for life, not for casual humour.
"From a laptop, I want five things:
* A nice, clear screen. Color is nice, but not critical. It should be big enough so that looking at it doesn't make me feel like I'm stuck in the coach section of a DC-9.
iBook: SuperCrisp 1024x768 screen. Don't want color? Just turn it off.
* Decent 2D video performance. I might just be editing text, but at least it should look good while doing it. In any event, with decent a framebuffer and hardware acceleration, I can use nice anti-aliases fonts and play around with the window settings. This might sound frivolous, but nice-looking text and windows go a long, long way to relive eyestrain, which is exceedingly important.
iBook: Check.
* Good physical utility. Too many laptops seem to be designed to sit on your desk, with the occasional trip to some other desk (transported in a deluxe, custom leather briefcase). This is OK if you are, say, the CEO, and don't do any real work in the first place. I want a laptop that is durable, light and small. I don't want to have to transport it in a special bag, or worry about fragile bits getting broken from normal use.
The current crop of iBooks is rugged. I've dropped mine a few times (oops). Not a scratch, no problem. And unlike the PowerBook, it *feels* rugged. I am confident that it could withstand the abuse that I dish out.
* Insanely long battery life. I don't mean 'barely survive the flight from NWK to LAX'. I mean 'I'm only going to be in Tokyo for a week, so I won't need the AC adapter.'
This is the only place I can't help you, except to say that if you aren't using processor intensive tasks or the CD drive, you will get 5 hours (maybe more). Get a few extra batteries and an international adapter if you are going to Tokyo. (Don't they have the same power plugs there as here?)
Also, the adapter that comes with the newest iBooks is very compact and lightweight. Cord wraps around it easily.
* Good built-in networking. No PCMCIA stuff, dongles, or other junk. The system should have a respected 100base-T card built in, and probably an 802.11b card and high-gain antenna as well.
iBook has 100BaseT, and with an AirPort Card, you're all set. And there is no PCMCIA. (If you want that, you want a PowerBook). The antenna is very good, much better than the PowerBook. (Up to 300 feet in some cases)
See other posts for good reasons why you don't want to build a laptop, but value for dollar, an entry level iBook can't be beat.
Pick one up at your local Apple Store or on the web.
Good Luck
Reality has a liberal bias
Get an Apple Titanium PowerBook running MACOS 10.1. Get the developer tools CD which installs all kinds of nifty stuff, gcc, cvs, project builder. And you're set to go. It's all bsd unix, you can open terminal and console windows and have full access to your system via shells.
MACOS 10.1 is the best thing to ever happen to computing and is the ultimate geek's operating system, and is also the best operating system you can ever run on a laptop.
Its networking configuration is very easily configurable and nicely abstracted behind a very nice interface. Check this:
1) At work, i am connected to the 'net via corporate LAN thru my ethernet port and static tcp/ip configuration.
2) At home, i have a dsl connection and multiple computers, all sharing the connection via a LinkSys DSL router, with DHCP enabled, and an Apple airport base station acting as a bridge to the rest of my ethernet LAN.
3) At my girlfriend's place, she just has a simple phone line and I can connect via dial-up only.
==> I work during the day as a web applications developer, and run the NetBeans java IDE on OS 10.1 which comes pre-installed with Java 1.3, while listening to mp3's with i-tunes, with 10 terminal windows opened with multiple ssh connections to various hosts, using shell scripts i wrote to manage files, quickly edit files with emacs, do complex file search and replaces in BBEdit. I also have my DVD player idling with my crouching tiger hidden dragon DVD just sitting there waiting to be watched during my lunch break.
Work day is over. I unplug the laptop's ethernet jack, unplug my desktop speakers and the power cord, drive home.
As soon as i get home, i open the laptop. This instantly wakes it up from sleep. It instantly detects that I am not using my ethernet port, but it also detects that there is an open wireless network at my home. It hops on it right away. Then automatically makes the DHCP request as I had configured to. BAM: I get home, I wake up my laptop, and it's connected to the net via its airport card.
Say I wanna go to my Girl's place rite now and check my e-mail from there. Put the laptop on 'sleep', get there, plug her phone jack into my modem port, and click the little modem icon on my status bar and select "connect". And there i am. Easy.
I recently downloaded, compiled and configured the standard samba daemon distro by passing a few flags to the configure script. OS 10.1 already comes with a couple samba clients built-in via command-line and is also handled at the URL/protocol level, but not samba SERVER. So that lets me share drives with windoz weinies, while i already had the built-in ability to share drives two-ways with AppleTalk clients and unix/linux NFS clients, via standard unix command-line as well as a couple GUI tools.
It really doesn't get any sweeter than this. Wether you are just getting your feet wet into Unix, or you only work in vi/emacs and swear by terminal and console windows, this puppy has everything you need to get your stuff done and your jollies off.
I guarantee you, there is absolutely NO cooler operating system than OS 10.1. They've still got improvements to make, and it's still unofficially considered 'betaware', but hey, I've been using it very intensively for weeks now, and it hasn't failed me. and the titanium powerbook with its wide screen and pretty colors and all its connectivity stuff is just way cool.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
Yeah but a thinkpad does not follow the specs with regard to battery life.
I'd think, however, that maybe some of those old portables like the TRS-80 Model 100 might be closer to what's necessary. They at least had great battery life.
evanchik.net
I would check with Itronix.... I would tend to think NOTHING can compare to their durability.
See Itronix.com
Not only are these very durable, They are drop tested multiple times, they are waterproof/dustproof, and able to stand temperatures varying from -15 to +140 F. They have a special LCD screen called Color-View and special keyboards that are illuminated.
Check them out....
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
See our Illuminated Keyboard
--Mid
It seems what you want is a highly portable, highly light weight, super efficient dumb terminal or VNC terminal. Well my friend, let's be slightly realistic here, if you are going to have a CAT-5 plugged into the sucker, get an internation power adapter kit. Now I hear, "What about on the plane, on the train, in a boat, in a house, with a mouse." If you are going for extreme portability (as you've implied) and for all of these features I MUST recommend that you try to convert an Internet Appliance into a portable. Personally I run an IOpener with Jailbait linux. I can always VNC into a more powerful machine, or just --display=zTTTz:0.0 to any application on any linux server anywhere on earth (since we have the ethernet installed). It takes DC power so you could easily build a custom rechargable battery out of it or sucker one of those EE majors into doing it for you. If you need a week worth of power, my friend, you need to accept the fact that you will be lugging a lead-acid car battery with you wherever you go UNLESS you get serious about this and buy about 50 of those Air-powered batteries (expensive and un-rechargable, but some last upto a month). I would also recommend converting a WebSurfer Pro. The manufacturer of those can give them to you with integrated Ethernet. Couple that with the fact that it has an integrated power supply that does NOT have a bulky cooling fan, it has an insanly small board, and you can get yourself down to just an inch or two tall and about the size of a piece of paper. Go out and purchase an LCD online. There are many websites that have LCD's that accept RCA video inputs. Pricy, but that's what you are asking for. Finally these things have wireless keyboard/mouse combos so you could hook it up to a TV and use it from a comfy hotel couch if you are in Tokyo, or get really creative and attached a folding keyboard like the ones Palm Pilots use to it directly. Of course you would need some sort of custom case since you wouldn't want to use the mammoth sized one that it comes with and would thus need a buddy that is good with cutting/sanding plastic (just need a circular saw). This also has an integrated M-Systems flash disk so you can cut your power consumption enough that you could maybe get this to all run off a battery (depending on the LCD's power consumption). And you would want to get rid of the lame DC-AC-DC conversion with the power supply (that EE friend again). This second path will give you exactly what you want, but it will take a lot of work and favors from friends. I'd just get an i-opener, come up with a smaller keyboard, usb nic, make a compact mount (instead of it's big mount, and poof! done.
First, consider that LCDs are expensive and nonstandard, as already mentioned. TVs on the other hand, are cheap, mass-produced and rugged, even when portable. So...use a TV for the display. Of course, the bigger the TV, the more expensive it'll be...but then you can use it to watch TV too.
Then you want rugged and portable? Get a biscuit form factor PC. They're small, but they're still standard PCs (which can therefore run Linux), including all the usual connections. You can get them with TV outputs (for VGA drivers), and built in ethernet and serial connections. Check out some of them at this site.
Most don't come with a hard drive, and you'll have to "roll your own" there, too. You have a choice: buy a biscuit with an IDE connector, or buy one with another standard connection, such as Compact flash or PCMCIA. If you go with the IDE, a portable 500MB IDE isn't that expensive. I saw one for $40 (US dollars) recently.
Then of course, you have to worry about batteries/power supply. That's not as big of a problem as you might think - there are LOTS of battery manufacturers. You want long lasting? You'll have to pay for longer lasting. On the upside, the compact system shouldn't take as much power as a standard laptop would.
How rugged is the result? Well, you'd be creating the casing for everything, so that's pretty much up to you.
So, I figure these costs:
$400 CPU (with ethernet, etc...)
$400 portable Flat Screen TV (VGA video displayed)
$50 Hard Drive
$800 Batteries/Power supply (enough to last a week - a SERIOUS load, and still probably an underestimate of the price)
$80 Casing
Of course, for an extra $500, you could upgrade to having real SVGA video, but you don't need hardware acceleration of video for most applications with which this technology is normally used, so...you can't get it.
I suppose if $1730 is three times as much as you would have paid, then this is a bad deal...but since the Thinkpad X22 retails for around $3000, I think I'm talking about a better deal than a prebuilt machines. Plus this thing is actually upgradable.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I've been down this thought path. Before I get into it (In the end you realize its not worth it) - let me make two suggestions:
1) Toshiba Libretto - these puppies range from p75|133's with 32mb ram to something more decent (300ish?) - the lowest two models are the tiniest damn things you ever did see. Only quip you might have with these is small keyboard, and only 640x480 resolution.
2) Sony Picturebook (PCG-C1[X,XS,etc.]) - this ranges from pmmx 266+64|128mb ram to crusoe 667(?)+64|192mb ram. Their screens are BEAUTIFUL (1024x480 though), the video performance is good.
In case you can't tell - I have owned the lowest two models of both of these lines. I still own the picturebook, and use it daily at work. Its portability and performance are only matched by its successors. The libretto I passed on to my brother when I got the vaio, and he brought it backpacking around europe with him so he could offload and resize his pictures then upload them to a website.
--- that said ---
The only real solution for building your own laptop - unless you're going all out 100% your own hardware (insane lengthy expensive) is to go PC104/PC104Plus/Proprietary embedded systems. The advantage is you may make it so you can actually upgrade - but it sounds to me like you're looking for a keeper, and it doesn't need to be powerful. The other problems you will run into is video performance isn't a neccessity in the embedded area - so forget amazing performance. Additionally, you will have a field day connecting to an LCD and once you do you'll find you can't find an OEM LCD as nice as the ones you see in big-name laptops. It's a wonderful thought, but I suggest going with the libretto for max portability (very small dock thing gives parallel+serial for those null modems), or vaio for something with some screen real estate while holding the portability.
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
To get insanely long battery life you'd need a very low-drain laptop coupled with something like an Electrofuel 120 or 160 (a think that looks like a mousepad that fits under your laptop, but which is actually a 12+ or 16+ hour battery).
Disclaimer: I haven't used 'em, but I saw them at Comdex and they looked cool enough to put on my Christmas wish list.
...a text mode console. Surely the lack of video RAM, bandwidth etc should save some power?
:-)
Um... not really. The thing that eats power for displays is the backlighting of the LCD. You might try looking for a reflected-light LCD display if anyone makes such a thing - would need no backlight but you'd only be able to work in well-lit areas
ben_ the technologist and platform agnostic
You may want to consider the Compaq Armada 4000 line, particularly the 4220T.
It's like 5lbs, 266mhz Pentium MMX mobile, 12" screen (does 800x600), runs linux very well... grab one of those 2-slot-high 3com PCMCIA cards that lets you jack the ethernet straight into the card (no more dongle annoyance). The stock battery will run you in X, editing files, for about 8 hours. Add a second battery, that time goes up to 18 hours, depending on use. These numbers are with a Toshiba 4gb IDE laptop drive. If you replaced that with a less power-hungry Flash device, I'm quite sure that a double-battery setup could run for 25-30 hours on this laptop.
I used to run one of these laptops as a car MP3 player, and it could normally go 15-18 hours without being recharged on two batteries. It also recharged to full in about 3 hours.
.... um, i lost you after "0110100001101001".
it stayed in the shop from the first week. Compaq could never fix it, I traded it for a lesser toshiba model. Now I have a TFT 8000 that has problems (bottom quarter of screen goes out after a while until you turn it off and let it cool), compaq again cant fix it. AVOID compaq crap.
Just a clarification, Newark Airport's designation is EWR, not NWK.
"StrongARM CPU, a flash disk and grayscale 1024x768 LCD."
hp jornada 820e handheld PC
Ebay: $150-300