Conectiva Linux 7.0 Review

Patrick Mullen writes: "The Duke of URL has posted their review of Conectiva Linux 7.0. Conectiva Linux was the first distribution to support APT-RPM, which cures most of the ails of typical RPMs. Their latest release even bundles a graphical front-end to APT, and brings the worlds of Debian and Red Hat together."

Comments

User reviews?

[Lumpy]

Has anyone got any first hand reviews? I used to use redhat as my Newbie distribution, and after the latest tricks in 7.2 I need to find a new one for the fresh converts and install fests. Is this a good choice for newbies? or should I stick with Mandrake.

Thanks

Re:User reviews?

[rinsoblue]

I use Conectiva 7.0 and I like it a lot. I also use Mandrake and all 3 BSDs. Conectiva has just the right amount of graphical-install and do-it-yourself that many people seem to yearn for. Both version 6 and 7 have found all the hardware except sound cards on my computers. After I finish the graphical install I use Red Hat's sound configurating program which is installed and waiting.

I think this is a very good product that has been overlooked too long. I recommend it to any beginner who finds other distributions too overwhelming. ISO's are available at linuxiso.org and it installs with a choice of the 3 major languages of the Americas.

Rinso

Re:User reviews?

[SubtleNuance]

I use Red Hat's sound configurating program which is installed and waiting.

My Debian Sid laptop still doesnt have working sound, what RH Sound Tool are you using? I havnt run RH since 6.1

Boom!

[adamwright]

Conectiva Linux was the first distribution to support APT-RPM

I would've though there'd be some sort of matter/antimatter explosion when apt and rpm came together judging by the flamewars I've seen....

I could care less now...

[Anonymous Coward]

this apt vs rpm vs tar.gz vs etc. isn't getting linux anyware. Fortunately, Gentoo Linux seems to be on the right track with their Portage package management system...

Here is a blurb from their website (http://www.gentoo.org/):

"Gentoo Linux is a versatile and fast, completely free x86-based Linux distribution geared towards developers and network professionals. Unlike other distros, Gentoo Linux has an advanced package management system called Portage. Portage is a true ports system in the tradition of BSD ports, but is Python-based and sports a number of advanced features including dependencies, fine-grained package management, "fake" (OpenBSD-style) installs, safe unmerging, system profiles, virtual packages, config file management, and more."

Re:Site only in Spanish and Portugese?

[adebater]

try
http://en.conectiva.com/download/

Connectiva employs many kernel mantainers

[Pac]

Like other major distributions, the brazilian Connectiva employs many people closely related to Linux development.

Marcelo Tosatti was recently announced as the new head mantainer over the 2.4 stable kernel tree. Rik Van Riel is known for his work in the memory management subsystem and Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo works with IPX.

The point here is not to praise Connectiva (or Red Hat or anyone), but to notice that it is perfectly possible to run a profitable company and care for the development community at the
same time.

Hooray for WindowMaker

[nagora]

It's good to see a distro which actually promotes what is THE best (ie most productive and easiest to use) desktop available on any computing platform today.

TWW

apt is not the whole story

[mvdwege]

While the reviewer is right that apt is a wonderful tool, he is guilty of two very common mistakes:

1. apt is not the package manager per se. It is a front end to the package manager. Therefore the whole idea of using it with another package manager as its default (dpkg) is not so unlikely as it sounds. In fact, as far as I can make out from my Debian documentation, apt is specifically designed to be agnostic in regards to what package manager does the actual work.
2. The previous was only a minor quibble. His major mistake is however his assertion that you can download any .rpm and have apt sort out the dependencies. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. In order for apt to work, it needs a central repository that provides it with a correct dependency list. Without that, you're back to the good old dependency hell. This is what makes Connectiva and Debian great, because that is exactly what they provide, and it is only because they do that that apt is such a great tool

Mart (a happy Debian user)

For your information, Mandrake...

[joestar]

also includes apt as an option. But the default is to use the excellent urpmi urpme tools that automatically resolve all RPM dependencies and can install new packages automagically (from the CD or remotely through FTP or HTTP) and also uninstall them.

man urpmi

Re:For your information, Mandrake...

[mgkimsal2]

Yeah, but updating the 'package list' is a bitch. The graphic front end gives you NO indication as to what it's doing or how long it'll take (or how much it's done). I've let my machine go for more than 45 minutes (128k connection) with nothing. The 'software update' stuff still has a ways to go on mandrake. They also need more than 1 mirror in the US. Every server I see in the default lists is in France or Germany or Japan or someplace else.

I tell a lie - I did get an package list to come down from a server in Japan in only 35 minutes. But it promptly crashed, so that was time simply wasted.

Re:For your information, Mandrake...

[joestar]

I never got your issues nor heard anytime of such issues.

Re:For your information, Mandrake...

[mgkimsal2]

And how many people do you talk to about this? How many people inside a distribution's circle of supporters will openly criticize that distribution?

For the record, I said the graphic tool. The command like URPMI is a little better, but not much. The main issue is pulling down package lists from other servers. There aren't many servers listed in the graphic tool that are anywhere NEAR me - I'm in Detroit. I think 2 are in the US, if that.

If/when you use the graphic 'software update' tool, and it says 'updating package list' or whatever it says, do you have a 'cancel' button? Do you have a progress bar? My Mandrake (7.2, 8.0 and 8.1) do not have those seemingly basic items. I just have a silver bar bouncing back and forth, supposedly indicating activity. I'd have thought a progress bar, or at least a cancel button, wouldn't have been too much to ask of a desktop app in 2001. I guess I was wrong.

Also for the record, I've purchased mandrake before, and given them money via their site. I like and generally support mandrake, but their software update thing has a long way to go before being as usable as 'apt-get' (I'm not a debian fan either).

Re:For your information, Mandrake...

[tim_maroney]

The graphic front end gives you NO indication as to what it's doing or how long it'll take (or how much it's done).

Gad. That's such an elementary design mistake. It's bad GUIs like this that convince people that GUIs suck. Most of the graphical software I see on free platforms seems to be written by people who hate graphical programs and want everyone else to hate them too.

Tim

Re:For your information, Mandrake...

[mgkimsal2]

Most of the graphical software I see on free platforms seems to be written by people who hate graphical programs and want everyone else to hate them too

WOW! If I could mod that comment up, I would! I don't think I've seen a more concise, insightful observation on this topic in awhile... :)

Re:For your information, Mandrake...

[update()]

Yeah, but updating the 'package list' is a bitch. The graphic front end gives you NO indication as to what it's doing or how long it'll take (or how much it's done).

The front end sucks (and got worse from 8.0 to 8.1, as did a bunch of other things). You'll want to at least launch MandrakeUpdate from the command-line as there is useful feedback there.

Still, I've found the benefits of Mandrake outweigh the disadvantages, and the updater does work if you're careful with it.

Number of packages

[n-tone]

How many applications is bundled with this distribution ?
If there are less than 7000 programs you shouldn't buy it ;-)

RPM is not that bad...

[O2n]

From the article:
A limitation of RPM is the lack of ability to fetch and install dependencies that are needed when installing a given package. It can be frustrating to try and install some software only to be held back by unmet dependencies. This usually leads to time-loss as one has to track down these dependencies, install them, and then install the package you wanted to install in the first place.

I've been using redhat - at least on some test machines not involved directly in the network - since 4.1. While rpm is far from perfect, it's also not that bad as the article implies: you can search for the missing dependencies here -- note that you have to check "Provided Packages", then download those packages from your favourite mirror.

Re:RPM is not that bad...

[be-fan]

Then, of course, there is urpmi which, despite its problems (like an extremely rigid idea of package servers), is one cool piece of software.

YAGOD (Yet Another Geek-Only Distro)

[Z4rd0Z]

&lt rant mode="on" &gt

I read the review for this, and it sounds pretty ho-hum. The conclusion states that it's fast and stable...well, it's running the same software as all the other 10,000 distros out there. What is it that makes it particularly fast and stable by comparison?

The other thing that really bothers me is that this sounds like it has virtually the same features as all the other big names: Graphical install, easy to set up...except it gives too many goddamned options! I would like to see a distro that is a coherent whole, not a mishmash of every possible choice. I mean, it gives a choice between 2.2 and 2.4 kernels! There is not a non-geek in this world who knows or cares what that means. Nor do they care whether is runs KDE or GNOME. It ought to customize one or the other to be the Connectiva desktop, thus making a product that's unique to them, perhaps adding to the KDE control panel the ability to configure everything on the system in one place. Instead they give you a choice of three desktops!

Does the world need another distribution that caters only to geeks?

&lt /rant &gt

Re:YAGOD (Yet Another Geek-Only Distro)

[Banjonardo]

Does the world need another distribution that caters only to geeks?

Perhaps the U.S. doesn't. But this is A Brazilian product, and technical support is gonna be in Portuguese. (Or Spanish, if you stretch it.)

The Brasilian people, yes, DO need a nice geek-catering distro, if only because it has techsupport in Portuguese.

Re: Choice is a good thing...

[Z4rd0Z]

I'm not going to totally knock Redhat, Mandrake &amp Co, but we already have what they provide. Connectiva is not providing anything new, aside from being predominantly non-english. Now we need a NEW choice, because there is nothing yet out there that really anyone can install and use. That means a very limited set of the population, the geek set, has access to a HUGE number of distros and choices. But what about the rest of the people? Where are their choices?

Use Corel Linux. (was: Re:YAGOD)

[Jens]

Simple. Use Corel Linux.

It's an end-user desktop Linux distribution. That is, it is not much more than a very, very bare bones Debian Linux (slink) setup, with a modified and (well) customized KDE desktop. If it can't start KDE it boots into 'safe mode' (twm). By default, there is no console login except for a sulogin on console 2 (console 1 only shows a textbox saying "Please press Alt-F7").

After you install it (and there's not much more to installing than choosing whether to overwrite Windows or not) you get a default desktop with a web browser, an email client, a small office suite (Wordperfect) and a couple assorted (graphical) tools.

Just about the same you get with a default install of Windows 9x.

I.e. *NOTHING* in respect to tools, network stuff, programming languages, etc. The whole install is about 300-400MB. Hell, the first versions of Wordperfect wouldn't even install because xlib was missing.

But the 'average user' wants to install 10000 additional tools after installing the OS. Apparently. They don't want the OS installation to span 1-2 GB, but already include almost every kind of software you will ever need.

If that's what you want, use Corel Linux. It's "Linux for Dummies".

Re:Use [the abandoned Corel Linux. (was: Re:YAGOD)

[HiThere]

I find myself believing that Corel abandoned their distribution. Didn't even hand it off to somebody else, just dropped it.

Not something that I would want to recommend to anybody, but it's probably safe, as I don't think you can order it any more.

Re: Choice is a good thing...

[be-fan]

But isn't it a valid choice to reject choices? I mean, shouldn't there be a distro that standardizes everything, for users who don't want to deal with all the options? One man's choice is another man's chaos.

Pot meets Kettle

[Jagasian]

It is contradictory for you to slam people for debating the merits of three different package mamangement systems (deb, rpm, slack), and then you yourself argue for a fourth package management system which is used by Gentoo Linux. Hello! Pot calling kettle! Where are you? The scary part is that you got modded up so high. I mean, Gentoo has been mentioned many times on Slashdot.

Debian and Gentoo are the two Linux distros with the most promising package management systems. I am a Debian user myself, but once Gentoo releases a non-beta version of their distro, I will give it a shot. However, Debian works so well because of its open community. Only time will tell wether Gentoo will develop a similar community. In addition, apt-get'ing KDE, for example, is fast and painless on a low end PC with a cable modem connection. However, using Gentoo's system, not only would the download be larger, but there would be the overhead of building the software! So Gentoo might be great for workstations and servers, but for desktops and low end devices... it might not be the way to go.

Re:All installers should have this... - mod up!

[cymen]

So everyone bitched about this and didn't even find out this simple fact? It sounds like Connectiva is doing just fine with all the options. Mod this guy up!

Re:eH?

[nagora]

That post had no real relevance you realise.
Yes.

You do realise that is full opinionated right?

Absolutely!

Maybe its fast, but blackbox is faster.

Haven't tried it yet.

And I dont need all those things floating around my desktop.

What things? I have two columns of icons for the things I use a lot, but I put them there

Maybe its configurable but why waste my time when blackbox is how i want it already?

No reason in the world, if it does.

Not to mention theres Ion, maybe a little less "pretty" but it gets the job done.

Didn't like it. Xterm is better.

My god man, the beauty of linux is choice

I agree; I chose WindowMaker and you chose Blackbox. My issue is with distros defaulting to the same old bloatware (KDE/Gnome) and not even mentioning the alternatives.

TWW