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Purchasing Used High-End Storage Arrays?

Posted by Cliff on from the purchasing-big-iron-from-for-sale-listings dept.

sphealey asks: "I have an opportunity to purchase a used disk storage array in the terabyte class (which we need) originally manufactured by a leading vendor. The price is reasonable, and the seller is offering to provide installation and a 90-day warranty with the system. The unit appears to be complete and functioning. My question is, what are the pitfalls? And which are likely to occur?

"What I have considered so far:

  • Original vendor charges outrageous fee to license necessary client-side software.
  • Original vendor charges 're-entry fee' of some sort to place unit back on maintenance and support.
  • Shipping and installation nightmares are worse than the usual for this class of equipment, and there is no original vendor to turn to for assistance.
Do any Slashdotters have any experience in this area? Any success or failure stories in purchasing used big iron?"

20 comments

  1. Same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    same as with any used equipment.

    If you've never bought anything used then I suggest you don't start with something of this magnitude.

    If you have, then surely you're aware of the pitfalls.

    1. Re:Same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice first post. Now if only all anons were at least as intelligent (intelligible?) as you.

  2. hey shithead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    close the <i> tag</I>

    1. Re:hey shithead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol - it made the whole ask /. page go italics... good job crew!!! Why don't they have each articel start with a close tag for bold, italics, etc.... just to be sure things are clean???

  3. Ok, folks now shut the fuck up by MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM · · Score: -1, Troll
    The first post say it all. There is nothing else to add on this topic. Move along.


    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

  4. zzzzz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Talk about a slow day; almost an hour gone and only ~4 posts.

    (Attn CmdrTaco: your lameness filter sucks. Too much repetition? Screw that.)

  5. ASK SLASHDOT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Er, this is what like the third ask slashdot today.
    Fucking boring.

  6. A word of advice by MrRudeDude · · Score: 1

    Do not let the college kid intern give his friends accounts on a machine that can mount this volume so that they can run gnutella clients. Your terabytes of space will be filled with mp3's, pirated iso's of games, every episode of Star Trek X Files Simpsons and Seinfeld and Lexx and etc. ever broadcast, within days. Those guys will fill your space at a rate which can be calculated from the size of your internet pipe. They will go out and rent DVDs just to copy them to your space so they can re-download them everytime they want to watch it, screwing your bandwidth bill.

    Don't ask how I know this. And no, I just deleted it all, so you can't look in there and poke around and see if they have any porn.

    Word to the wise.

    1. Re:A word of advice by 1st+banana+man · · Score: 1

      kinda sounds like a parent? and don't ask me what happened to the gigabytes on my home workstation, where the virus came from (dual boot) or if my workstation has visited any inapporpreate web site.

  7. Be careful on compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    For example, HP sells rebranded Metastor arrays (from LSI I think) but they cleverly replace the firmware with their own wonky HP load.

    This doesn't do anything good for the customer, in that it actually decreases the amount of control you have over the array.

    But it does something cool for the vendor (HP that is) because without the HP firmware the Metastor won't work perfectly with the (proprietary, closed-source) HP-UX disk management and monitoring utilities.

    Unscrupulous installers of non-HP Metastor arrays will turn off disk and fiber channel monitoring in HP-UX so as to prevent generating false errors... this also prevents detection of real errors, how 'bout that.

    Be wary, and get a written guarantee of compatibility up front if you can.

  8. CmdrTaco's Filthy Secrets REVEALED by George+WIPO+Bush · · Score: -1

    THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ
    By The WIPO Troll, $Revision: 1.8 $

    What is "Taco-snotting?"

    "Taco-snotting" is a term used by one Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda, owner of the popular technology website Slashdot, to refer to the practice of sucking off a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco doesn't care, and is rumored to actually prefer rape) and blowing the semen back out his nose onto his partner's (or victim's) face or body. Usually a long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose, down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."

    Good Lord. Why have I been receiving emails from CmdrTaco asking me if he can Taco-snot me?

    I'm guessing you've received an email similar to the following:
    From: malda@slashdot.org
    To: wipotroll@hotmail.com
    Subject: Hey, baby - jion me in a taco-snott! :)

    Hey, baby!

    Ever done a taco-snotting with anothar fellow geek? Its more fun then trolling Slashdot, trust me! all that talk you troll with about homasexual incest and stuff got me all horny and hot for you! Is it serius? Please tell me that itt is! If you want to get with me and my Slashdot bois, drop me an emale!

    ps- Please replie to me at horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com. I'd rather the guys at VA Linux are not seen this. :) :)

    --
    CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org)
    You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. Whenever CmdrTaco gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy being Taco-snotted. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, you're in trouble. So this time, he found you. Lucky you.
    CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

    I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

    Probably not. If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, he might end up tying you up in his basement to use you as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a vile practice known as a "circle-snot").

    What is a "Circle-snot"?

    A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among homosexual geeks. This is when CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel, and Homos get together and Taco-snot each other repeatedly with their gooey, hot, and sticky cum -- spooging their dicks all over each other's faces and pasty-white bodies until they're all covered head to toe with man juice. Roblowme usually provides plenty of extra lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease.
    To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie often join in, dressed in black Gestapo uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pasty-white geek bodies are sweaty and exhausted from all the passionate, homosexual revelry.

    Eww. Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

    Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an Open Source Convention. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake, but when I got to there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants and made me suck him, he performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm, then snotting my own jizz back onto my face, in my mouth, then again on my belly.
    CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) Convention buddies over to continue the snotfest. Linux Torvalds raped my ass with his "monolithic kernel," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my body.
    How did I finally escape? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my helpless body, they all finally went to sleep, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in geek jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with fat, pasty white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my entire body worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

    That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

    No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):
    You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.
    After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.
    Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

    Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a paedophile, not a homosexual.

    Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual paedophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zoophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called "Katz juicy-douching" with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.
    As I already said, Mr. Katz is also a zoophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

    ...Are you getting hard writing this?

    Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot? I promise I won't try and rape you or kidnap you and make you my sex slave or anything. I'm not like CmdrTaco or Mr. Katz; I only enjoy snotting on willing partners.

    What's that screaming I hear coming from your basement?

    Oh, that's just my little sister; I got her chained up down there. In fact, I just finished snotting all over her body. You should see her squirm when I spooge on her belly, lick it up, and snot it all over her face! She's such a feisty little 14 year-old bitch. Of course she's my sex slave, she's my sister. What else would she be good for? So, join me in a WIPO-snot?

    No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

    ________________________________________
    READER COMMENTS

    1. Taco snotting is WRONG!!! (Score:-1)
      by Big_Ass_Spork on 2001.11.18 4:53 (#2580300)

      I do it wrong

      Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.

      Massaging my nutsack she....

      WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!

      Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]

      "OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"

      "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"

      I DO IT WRONG!!!!

      ---
      All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it...
    2. Rob Malda Dead at age 25! (Score:-1)
      by j0nkatz on 2001.11.17 22:54 (#2579596)

      I just heard some sad news on the radio -- famous queerbait Rob Malda was found dead in his Holland home this morning. The details were a bit hazy, but it seems that he drowned in jizz while Taco Snotting his friend Hemos. I'm sure everyone in the /. community will miss him -- even if you didn't enjoy his queer antics and boring ass website, there's no denying his contributions to the homosesual cultural development, particularly in the areas of Taco snotting. Truly an American icon.

      I wanna Open Source sex so it won't be worth a shit either.
    3. TACO-SNOTTING is really Donkey-Punching (Score:-1, Troll)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.15 6:38 (#2567601)

      No no no, the correct term for that is "donkey-punch". I have eye-witnessed this amazing eye-popping event demonstrated on unsuspecting hose-monsters by my frat brothers in the past.. . :-)
    4. Re:the effect of knowlege laws... (Score:1)
      by AbsoluteRelativity on 2001.11.15 5:31 (#2567457)

      The WIPO Troll
      Slashdot and the Karma Lottery - News for uber monkeys, by uber monkeys.
    5. Re:Taco-Snotting (Score:-1, Troll)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:27 (#2557632)

      Oh, man that's just sick !
    6. HOW DO I GET AN ANONYMOUS PROXY? (Score:-1, Troll)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:03 (#2557604)

      TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET AN ANONYMOUS proxy please WIPO Troll. Maybe later i will join you in a snotting at my place. ;P
    7. Re:Taco-Snottage!?!?!? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
      by vikool on 2001.11.13 7:43 (#2557495)

      what is this bull shit,i feel offened that some people feel so so senseless to post stuff like these esp when such a tragic incident has occured
    8. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1)
      by I.T.R.A.R.K. on 2001.11.11 22:38 (#2551890)

      Where the fuck do I sign up?!

      - I throw rocks at retarded kids

      "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."
    9. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Troll)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 21:53 (#2551753)

      this shit is hilarious..keep up the good work.
    10. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Offtopic)
      by rockwood on 2001.11.11 21:49 (#2551746)

      OMG! That is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard! WHo in their right mind would sit down and waste the time to construct such a replusive story. I guess I'll be skipping lunch and dinner today.. and possibly tomorrow also. The game doesn't affect reality. Reality affects the game.
    11. Re:Ban this! It's disgusting!! (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 14:43 (#2550701)

      dude, this is crap-flood material if i ever saw it.
      duuuuuuuuudddddddddddddeeeeeeeee.
    12. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Flamebait)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 8:16 (#2550266)

      horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com

      Ah, so that's what the alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.horny-rob newsgroup is about!
    13. MOD THIS UP PLEASE!!! (Score:-1)
      by egg troll on 2001.11.11 5:34 (#2550024)

      +5, Arousing

      For more info check out this /. article
    14. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:39 (#2549891)

      WINNER>
    15. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:37 (#2549887)

      I love you. Why do you use your bitchslapped account, rather than signing up for a new account to post at +1 before getting bitchslapped by the censors here? I guess I should speak for myself, but I don't want to log out and lose all my slashdot customization properties, nor do I want to lose my 50 karma yet.
    16. Re:On Taco-Snotting (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.09 9:19 (#2542412)

      you fucking rock! right down to the expanded cvs id!

      WIPO trolls > linux

    ________________________________________

    $Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.8 2001/11/18 05:38:22 wipo Exp $
    --

    J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
    Crapflooder Associates
    Slashdot.org

  9. terabyte by KyleCordes · · Score: 1, Troll

    IIRC, a terabyte is 1000 gigabytes. 100 GB drives are available, so terabyte array really is not very big.

    Make sure you know how the price compares with a new solution to the problem you have... just because it's a fraction of its original price doesn't mean it's a good deal.

    1. Re:terabyte by KyleCordes · · Score: 2

      I haven't the fainted idea why my post was moderated 'troll'... I certainly did not intend it as such.

    2. Re:terabyte by sphealey · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't have moderated it "troll" myself, but it was perhaps not the most informed comment ever posted.

      If you are talking about stringing together some ATA drives to make a big storage pool for personal use, then 1 TB is do-able these days.

      However, that's a long way from the configurability, scalability, reliability (99.99999% uptime) and managability of an EMC Symmetrix, HP XP256, IBM Shark, or similar systems in a datacenter environment.

      For example, EMC claims that in 20 years not a single bit of data has been lost on any of their storage arrays where the installation has been approved by EMC field service. That's not an claim to claim to make lightly, nor something easy to accomplish with a string of drives from Fry's.

      sPh

    3. Re:terabyte by KyleCordes · · Score: 2

      Indeed, you are right about both the post and the drives.

      However, there are lots of situations for which people have a need for very large storage, but don't have a need for 99.99999% uptime, amazing reliability, etc., and you can now buy the former for much less cost than the latter. Three years ago, if you needed terabyte, you had to spend a huge amount on an EMC or whatever; now, you only have to spend that if you need a huge amount *and* you need great reliability.

      The world keeps changing, too. In a few more years, if you need a terabyte, that will be one hard drive. If you need higher availability, you'll need just a normal RAID subsystem, which is included in many servers and is far cheaper than an EMC storage system.

      I remember looking at a 10 gig storage subsystem for a document imaging application some years ago. It was an optical disk system with a robotic arm for swapping a library of disks, $20K+ Today my notebook has that much space.

    4. Re:terabyte by sphealey · · Score: 2

      No disagreement here. I remember standing in front of a Division Capital Expenditure Board to get approval for an enormous 1 GIGABYTE disk drive for my file server. It would fit in a wristwatch today...

      sPh

  10. If its... by Erk · · Score: 3, Informative

    EMC, then you're in trouble. EMC charges for the software like you mentioned, for both the Clariion and Symmetrix. That is how they make their money. And technically, if you have the opportunity to buy a used Sym, then it is a semi-illegal sale, since EMC is the only authorized person to resell a Sym. Once you buy it, you're stuck with it.

    Sun stuff is pretty good - all of the necessary software to use the array on a direct connect basis is available in the box. It's not pretty, but it works. You can config it using RaidUtil.

    HP would probably lean towards the EMC model more than the Sun model. Software is their big push. You might be able to get it config'd on a direct attached basis, but dunno about in a SAN w/o appropriate software.

    Compaq is the same as HP, but their stuff isn't as good.

    Netapp? They seem to be the most user-friendly when it comes to used equip.

    Just my $0.02.

    1. Re:If its... by sphealey · · Score: 2
      And technically, if you have the opportunity to buy a used Sym, then it is a semi-illegal sale, since EMC is the only authorized person to resell a Sym. Once you buy it, you're stuck with it.
      Actually, in the US I believe that there is a federal law which prohibits prohibitions of that nature. Written to prevent automobile manufacturers from locking up the spare parts market, but applies to other resales as well.

      However, that's not to say that the vendor couldn't make things unbearable for the buyer using perfectly legal means if they were of a mind to, which is what I am trying to scope out here.

      sPh

  11. Was it this one on e-bay? by draziw · · Score: 1

    Did you win this auction?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte m& item=1292583082

    If so - hela-good deal. If you aren't doing video, I'd scrap Sangery and go direct attached instead.

    Pitfalls? Things like to die in shipping, but if you get the 90 day warranty you should be covered. After that, it's a question of support. What will RMAs cost you? What will it cost you to get help over the phone or e-mail? What would an on-site visit cost you if you needed one? etc. If you haven't dealt with such a bit of hardware before, vendor support could make a big difference in PITA factor, and cost. Good luck.

  12. Three sets of issues by uslinux.net · · Score: 1

    There are three sets of possible issues you might encounter: Hardware, Software, and Compatibility. It looks like you've considered some of the software issues, though I'm not sure you've considered the harware or compatibility issues yet.

    Hardware issues probably center around reliability, more than anything. If you're purchasing a 3 year old disk array which received constant use, then you can expect that you WILL encounter hardware issues - if not now, sometime during its useful life. You might just encounter a bad disk, or there may be larger problems (like with the head unit). I've seen NetApps which are only a few WEEKS old lose disks (not much EMC experience here).

    You may need/want to update firmware or patch the internal OS of the unit. Be warned that you may need to purchase some sort of support contract to get patches and updates. Also, hardware like this is notoriously touchy about being moved - so once you get it set up, don't tear it down and set it up somewhere else, unless you're prepared to fight with it.

    Finally, compatibility issues may arise. I've noticed that NetApps in particular are very touchy when using Linux NFS clients - very often the clients will need to be rebooted when they hang. I think this is more of a Linux NFS client code issue than a NetApp issue (Linux NFS is *slowly* getting better), but its something to keep in mind. Without knowing what hardware you are going to purchase, it's very difficult to tell you what to look out for, but my primary experience has been with NetApp (fairly reliable, and a huge pain to work with in a cross platform environment) and a little EMC (nifty, a little faster, and a lot more expensive).