Message from Kabul

An open information society is inevitable. I was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in a small town 35 miles southwest of Kabul. This weekend, a movie theater and video store opened up again in Kabul (renting Independence Day), Afghan TV cranked up, and so did the Net. Americans understand all too well that our techno-driven culture produces wonders and dangers, but it's one of the most popular social and political forces in the world. Passion for pop culture relentlessly undermined repressive governments like Poland, East Germany and the former Soviet Union. The world, it turns out, really is porous now. Technology and information will squeeze through every closed nook and crevice. The Taliban never made a dent in the attachment this Afghan programmer and his friends had for it.

When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.

Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)

"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.

Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.

If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.

There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one another all over the country; Junis isn't the only Afghan e-mailing these days. He says other coders and gamers hid their PC's as well. Meanwhile, he's especially eager to get his hands on the Apple iPod, and has been drooling over the Apple website site since he got back online. And some things, of course, never change. "I thought they were going to get Microsoft," he wrote. "I guess not."

A decade ago, when East Berlin teenagers stormed the Wall and crossed over into West Berlin, the first thing many of them did was rush to music stores to buy tapes and CD's they'd been secretly, illegally listening to for years.

The Taliban worked to create the antithesis of the American world, one without technology, computing, the Net, music, or any vestige of popular culture (not to mention women's rights, elections, a free press or any religion except fundamentalist Islam. Junis said people in his town risked their lives repeatedly, not to fight the Taliban, but to try and listen to CD's and watch videos smuggled in from Pakistan, watched in the dark under blankets and in cellars. It seems the outcome was inevitable.

Comments

Hmmm.

[Gannoc]

(Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)

He's trying to download movies on a Commodore?

Re:Hmmm.

[Gannoc]

There hasn't been enough time for the "little village" to be sent new computers, and how does he even know how to connect to the internet? Dial into his local IP? Junoweb?

Yep. I didn't want to be the one to say it, because I fear the mighty, mighty hand of Pro-Katz moderation, but the entire article smells like fiction.

"He just dug out his commodore, one of the only 4 in the village, and now he's pirating movies and is "mesmerized" by open source and slashdot."

I mean, you'd figure that anyone who can get a gnutella client working from a warzone has heard of linux before.

Jon, you were trolled

[typical geek]

Exactly how does an Ubergeek in Afghanistan use an ancient Commodore to download and play movies? My K6-2 barely plays DIVX, and it's only 3 years old.

How can this Afghani geek afford an Ipod? When did DSL/broadband get into Kabul?

This story sounds fishy, but then it is Tuesday.

The big question

[PanBanger]

Has he gotten spammed yet?

Well, half the population is less oppressed...

[daoine]

They open the theaters, people get their TVs and computers back. It's good.

But the women aren't allowed in the theater, they can't function in public, and they still aren't allowed to see doctors. It's not that removing the Taliban is a bad thing, but for a significant part of the population, the current status really hasn't gotten any better.

Food for thought, and it makes me thankful that I was born in the US and have the ability to say such things...

Forget the US Air Force, here comes the RIAA

[bear_phillips]

What are the odds that the copy of Independence Day is pirated.

Just a reminder...

[Fnkmaster]

This is a good reminder that there are good, forward thinking, open minded people everywhere. You can oppress them but you can't destroy them. It's guys like this who will help lift Afghanistan out of poverty. Let's say he brings over the kids who live in his town and shows them his computer, let's them play old games. Some kid dreams of learning how computers work. He grows up, travels off to an engineering school somewhere, and comes back and starts a technology company in the budding economy of Afghanistan as it modernizes.

Of course, as nice as this sounds, the story is a little strange - I was under the impression there were almost no remaining international phone lines and that electricity was probably out in many of these areas, so I am a bit suspicious. But what do I know, maybe he has a generator and maybe the international phone lines are back up. Also the line about trying to download movies is definitely suspicious. At 9600 baud perhaps? OK, give them the benefit of the doubt, 28.8k. Doesn't sound too believable to me.

So I think this submission is either a bit of a hoax or a bit exaggerated, but it still is a nice sentiment even if the specifics are not true. And hopefully there is a guy somewhere in Afghanistan digging up his old Commodore. :)

Re:Just a reminder...

[RalphTWaP]

Katz,

I know, it's a little odd when you get hit with demands for factuality and proof. I mean, any of us who'd spent so much time writing opinion-based fluff would probably have a slightly hazy view of reality.

But for god's sake man.

Leaving aside the technical details already well-discussed, do us all a favor, and if it's not entirely a hoax, save whatever remains of your reputation and post the original email.

We're mostly big-boys here, post us a copy with the routing headers intact, give us the text, and then spend two or three hundred words pointing out how great it is.

We might still belive you got rooked, but at least we're less likely to attribute what prima facia appears to be a load of... um, horse-shit to you.

Re:Just a reminder...

[daviddennis]

You forget something interesting, which really hit home yesterday when I read an article in The Atlantic(*) about the difference between the Blues (people living in urban areas who voted for Gore) and Reds (people living in rural areas voting for Bush).

It noted that the average household income in a "Blue" area pushed $100k, while the average household income in a "Red" area was about $42k. So why weren't the reds resentful towards the blues?

Cost of living.

An average house in a Blue area goes for $400,000-1.5 million. The same house in a Red area costs $140k or so. A $ 42k household can easily afford a $140k house. A $100k household cannot easily afford even a $400k house. So who is really better off economically, the Reds or the Blues?

I looked this up in realtor.com and sure enough, he was right. And he had other examples. He couldn't spend $20 a plate dining out in ANY Red restaurant. This, of course, is par for the course around the Blue parts of town. He got a parking ticket in Redsville, and it cost him $3 instead of $25. And so on.

The phenomenon is going to be even more extreme in Afghanistan, a country where the average income is not even possible to determine with any accuracy. $1,000 a year is a fortune over there, but that wouldn't even pay my phone+DSL bill for the same period.

If you could make $1,000 a year in Afghanistan, you might well be better off than people making $100k in San Francisco, because that $100,000 just doesn't go very far.

The catch, though, is that living in a Blue area is a lot more enjoyable for more sophisticated people then red areas. When I wandered through South Florida, I saw plenty of places where the only radio was some preacher talking about having us saved. Sadly, if you're a True Blue, even the cheapest housing in the world probably won't make you happy in a Red zone. And that may apply to foreigners, too.

D

(*) Sadly, the article is not online.

Re:Just a reminder...

[JoeShmoe]

I'd just like to point out a couple things:

1) Back in 1995-1996 I was downloading plenty of movies at 9600 or 14.4 baud. They were all in the old ViVo format (.VIV which was purchased by Real a couple years later). I think the first one I ever downloaded was Boobwatch. Each movie was only about 60-100MB in size and could easily be downloaded overnight. The bitrate was HORRIBLE but back the thrill of downloading an ENTIRE MOVIE made up for it.

2) My only 486 could never in its wildest dreams play DivX, which is MPEG-4 and requires a crapload of processing power...but even a lowly 486 can handle MPEG-1 or low bitrate RealMedia. So I can believe it's possible to watch movies on even an old Commodore PC clone.

3) The warez scene outside the G8 looks completely different. There is virtually no sympathy for copyright interests, especially US ones. You are more than likely to find major warez sites being run from state-owned resources (I myself was once offered access to a site that resolved to something under iif.hu and, judging from the amount of information it contained, had obviously been running for months). The scene is usually very close knit and tight. If you only have one or two ISPs then you get to know the staff pretty intimately, and from there its very easy to develop a "communal software resource".

I think a good way to look at computer users in these underdeveloped countries is to compare them to HAM radio users. They have a piece of hardware that connects them to a larger community of users, and sooner or later they'll run into someone in their own area, and from there they can exchange contact with others they have met and boom, a local user group is born.

- JoeShmoe

Hrm... I'm skeptic

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from the fact that he's supposedly saying that he's "downloading movies" on a commodore (ie a machine with little or no hard drive and no processing power to decode div-x's, with modems that are so antiquated that even downloading a 20meg divx would probably take a few weeks... no wonder he's furious...), it all sounds... I don't know... fake is probably the word.

As for digging up all the forbidden stuff as soon while they could still see the dust from the trucks of the talibans, that is just plain unbelievable. I doubt anyone who's just lived under such an oppressive regime would take that risk. What if they forgot something and drive back up to get it? Just because the trucks have driven away doesn't mean they're gone for good.

I would think that people living under oppressive regimes develop a sort of natural paranoia as a survival mechanism... my father who lived most of his life in communist Romania still has it twenty years after fleeing the country... I find it surprising that afghans would lose it in minutes...

Daniel

No wonder America is viewed as corrupt

[devphil]

So the top three TV shows mentioned in the story ("acutely missed" is the phrase connected to one of them) are Baywatch, Survivor, and Temptation Island?

Three shows based on the concept of manly men frolicking with scantily-clad women, and in the latter two, premised on the assumption that all humans are conniving backstabbers, and that relationships cannot last in the face of lust, respectively.

And we're trying to convince the Middle East that America is a just and moral nation? Ya ha ha, whatever.

What is the afghan's people perception?

[deragon]

You failed to ask the most important questions! ;)

What is the perception of the afghan's people about the US intervention? Do they feel that the sacrifice of innocents (accidents/mistakes on US forces part, but none less deadly) justify their new freedom? Do they feel that westerners should continue to use force to try to democratize Afghanistan? Or should the coalition now leave from their point of view?

I saw on TV an Afghan who lost 8 members of his family to US bombs. Yet, he had one message for the US forces: aim better. He did not asked to stop. Others though were very angry against the US after loosing some family member.

I want to know what the people of Afghanistan wants. I see some demonstrations in western countries asking for the bombings to stop. I say, that we might at least hear what the Afghan have to say. If they believe that the bombings are worthwhile, who are we to ask to stop these actions?

BTW, have you some websites/forums to suggest where we could directly interact with Afghanistan people? I would really like to have a few exchanges with some of them.

holes in katz's story:

[turbine216]

a few things that REALLY make me think that Katz either made this crap up, or is the victim of a VERY poorly fabricated hoax:

1 - I know it's been said already, but it bears repeating...how does one download MOVIES on an "ancient commodore"? And furthermore, how does one play them?

2 - When you're living in Afghanistan, who do you call to get internet access?

3 - If the guy's using that "ancient commodore", what would prompt him to salivate over an IPod? First of all, it's doubtful that he would have ever acquired even a single MP3 file, let alone enough to fill an IPod. Oh, and Commodores didn't have firewire back in my day. Seems like the guy would be more likely to lust after a 2-year old Athlon system and a broadband connection rather than an IPod.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed this pile of absolute rubbish. Katz should be sent over to Kabul to investigate the situation himself.

As a separate point against this entire letter...

[Cutriss]

Didn't the Taliban STRICTLY regulate technology? The Taliban thought the Internet was evil, after all, and outlawed it. So I find it HIGHLY suspicious that someone managed to start up an ISP in the middle of this war, and that someone else out there is more concerned about getting on Slashdot than staying alive and eating, which is what 99% of the Afghani population is probably concerned with.

This was bullshit. Sorry, but it *can't* be legit.

Yeah, it was for his school project.

[gosand]

ROTFL.

Hi, my name is Junis. I live in a town 35 miles from Kabul in Afganistan. I am doing a school project to see how many people can read an email in 30 days. Please forward this to everyone you know, and keep the headers intact.

Thank you, your pal,
Junis

P.S. I really like Jon Katz, he is great.

Post the email, Jon

[image]

We'd all love to read it.

[mod this up if you agree -- I'm at the cap anyway, so I'm not KW'ing]

Re:ipod

[smoondog]

Besides, according to Numerous sources the average salary in Afghanistan is on the order of $10-20 USD equiv per month.

I haven't felt this way before, but this is the first article I have really wanted to see withdrawn from slashdot. It scares me that a news orginization with the readership of its magnitude could post this crap.

-Sean

what a fantasy world...

[SethJohnson]

There's a lot that just doesn't add up in this story. I agree with the other posters that JK has either fabricated this as nerd-porn, or that he's been duped by a troll.

1. Downloading movies on the 'Commodore' hidden under the chicken coop- What the heck format are the movies in? If they're recent movies, they're not going to be compressed using any codex available to even the last of the Amigas.

2. He wants to get his hands on an iPod. Right... Isn't that putting the cart before the horse in SO many ways. mp3s are only a hot commodity among people who have a. lots of bandwidth and / or b. lots of cds. This guy has neither. If he has the disposable income (which is so damn rare in an impoverished country like Afghanistan) to want to buy an iPod, then he would have the wherewithall to have fled the country at some point during the Taliban's occupation. The people stuck in Afghanistan during the Taliban's occupation weren't the ones saying, "Damn. I have all this money and no cool stuff to buy." Those people got the hell out of there. I drive a car that cost more than some of the bombs they dropped on the Taliban, but with the economy in the state that it is in the US, I'm not talking about spending the cash to buy an iPod anytime soon.

Follow these instructions

[night_flyer]

1) click on "Preferences" on the upper right hand of the page

2) go to the "authors" column, check "JonKatz"

3) click "submit"

Easy on the 'Hoax!' shouts...

[Bazman]

John says: "Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired."

If you got a random email from someone you've never heard of from a .af domain then yes, you could be suspicious, but if John has known this guy for years then he's in a better position to judge than we are.

Baz

Re:Easy on the 'Hoax!' shouts...

[macrom]

But there are just too many things that don't seem to add up :

1. He and three other villagers had Commodores in hiding (presumably because that's all they could acquire) for 5 years, yet he's a "computer geek obsessed with Linux". Where was he able to get a Linux box and play with it enough to become obsessed?

2. He's trying to download movies he's missed despite the fact that one minute of a movie is probably larger than the amount of RAM on a Commodore. In addition, is there an OS for any Commodore computer that can play MOV, AVI, MPEG or other movie files? How about VCD images? That would be news to me and a lot of other people here.

3. American TV has been banned for the reign of the Taliban, as have computers and Internet connections. Yet he can already predict (in the few days he's been browsing the web, presumably) that "Survivor" and "Temptation Island" will be big hits over there. How the hell did he even find out about these shows, let alone learn enough about them to claim that Afghanis will fall in love with them?

4. iPod was just released, yet he knows he already wants one. Hell, I haven't had the chance to go to the Apple store 5 miles from my house to see if I want one. You would think that the oppression he's been under would drive him (and others) to want a stable food supply and guaranteed shelter before wanting an MP3 player that doesn't interface with a Commodore computer.

5. "I thought they were going to get Microsoft"? Huh? Would this even have been big news in Afghanistan 5 years ago, when the Taliban took over? I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong.

All of this just seems a little...odd. If I had just gotten out from under the boot of an oppressive government, I'd be concerned more about my immediate future than downloading entertainment from a network that had morphed into something completely different over the last 5 years.

And I don't at all mean this as a troll -- if someone with knowledge of the situation over there could explain how someone with so little access to the rest of the world could know so much about a foreign country, I'm sure we'd all be much abliged. According to the article, he (and possibly other people) are addicted to Slashdot -- Afghanis, if you're out there tell us the truth!

greg

Yeh, right.

[autopr0n]

I don't believe this for a moment. I hope Katz is above simply fabricating something like this, but I have no idea why he would just 'describe' the letter rather then reposting it here so we can all see for ourselves.

And as others mentioned, you can't download movies to a commodore, it just wont happen And he wouldn't have been able to do 'modern' programming on it for a long time. While I have heard reports of video stories and movie theaters opening back up, they're more likely to renting Indian and Pakistani films. Although I'm sure some people go for the American ones as well.

And comments about the iPod and Macs? Yeh, right. This sounds like more of a katzian fantasy to me. How would he even hear about the thing? And why would he want it rather then more reasonable mp3 players. After all, on a pure modem link he isn't going to be able to download movies.

And unless the northern alliance has managed to get DSL installed in the past few days, he isn't going to be downloading movies no matter what computer he has.

Katz if you have an journalistic credibility, post the actual message.

No.

[BenHmm]

I'd love to believe this, but no.

Still, the guy must be brilliant - not only has he got a five year old Commodore to get onto the Apple site, with a five year old browser, over non-existent phone lines but he's planning on spending five years wages on an ipod too?

It's bollocks.

I've been to the area and know the sort of conditions. First up, if anyone is using email in Afghanistan it is not over the standard POTS. If much of that is still remaining, it is in no way any condition to get a data connection over. Internet connections in Afghanistan are satellite (Bin Laden's is, so are the Aid Agencies and the journalists). So unless our hero has a either a sat phone, or a 3ft dish in his back garden, I doubt he sent an email from anywhere in the area.

"Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London" is not the way it would go - if I remember correctly, the main Pakistani bandwidth goes via Singapore. Unless Katz means this email was sent to someone in Kabul who forwarded it to someone etc etc etc.
In which case I'd hazard a guess to say the first passing was on paper, not electronically.

Next, "Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)"

Well, Hotwired's URL was first registered on 21-Apr-1994, but Katz's first writings were on Netizen. That started in 1996. The Taliban took Kabul in 1996, so Junis must have been quick. Obsessed with Linux then, sure - but now mesmerized by open source?

Which brings us to I thought they were going to get Microsoft," he wrote. "I guess not."

How did he know of the court case? Meanwhile, where did he learn perfectly idiomatic English? "Get" Microsoft? I "guess not"?

Temptation Island? Survivor? Riight - an area that until a week ago was isolated from the rest of the world is now aware and anticipatory of a tv show that is not even being aired on a nearby satellite network?

I'd love to believe this, I really would. But it's smelly as all hell, not to mention the highly dubious "they did it all for the toys" politics.

Still, if JK posts the email, with the headers, I'll be happy to believe, and drink a toast to Junis and his friends.

hoax

[Rev.LoveJoy]

TO: JONKTAZ@SLASHDOT.ORG
FROM: JEFFK@KABUL.COM

Dear Mr. Ktaz,

Here in kablu we think teh intraenet is supra neat!!!

Thoes silly persons with towles on thier heads havn't made us not liek our computras!!! or something!!!!

Technolagy is really cool!!!! - JEFFK

((satire))

Cheers,
-- RLJ

if you're not getting the joke

Internet in Afghanistan highly doubtful

[absurd_spork]

I spent some time in Uzbekistan this October for academic reasons. Uzbekistan is not the most advanced place on Earth, but it's still light years ahead of what's left of Afghanistan with regards to telecommunications infrastructure.

Now, in Uzbekistan I had quite trouble getting Internet access outside the larger cities such as Samarqand or Tashkent; in rural areas, where you've partly still got manually switched telephone lines, you can just about forget it. It's Soviet telecom infrastructure, basically.

So how on Earth is this guy supposed to have Internet access in rural Afganistan where you can't even take it for guaranteed that there's electricity or running water, let alone toilets or telecom infrastructure? (All of this experienced in southern rural Uzbekistan.)

So either this guy has a satellite phone and a generator hooked up to his ancient Commodore to download movies with, or he's in one of the rare villages with running telephone on a one-phone-per-village basis and continually occupies it for use with the 1200 baud acoustic coupler modem and his Commodore to download movies and inform himself about getting Linux on his Commodore, or this is just a hoax.

The sad thing is that it's such a primitive hoax in the first place - just like the "technology conquers all" nerd variation of the romantic patriotic young outlaw theme.

So unless I get to read the original e-mail including forward information some time soon, JonKatz goes down in the dumpster for me.

Re:Not to sound like an asshole, but...

[Eccles]

What business is it of ours how women are treated in Afghanistan?

Mankind is my business, and yours too. Enslave someone *anywhere*, and I have the moral right to stop you. Morality does not stop at national borders.

Ask orthodox Jews or the Amish if they'd like to be forced to "modernize", and see what they think!

The Taliban forced people to do things they didn't want to do. It's not like all of Afghanistan sat down and agreed, "OK, women stay at home, don't get schooling, and have to wear burqas." People with guns forced others to behave that way.

Welll...

[2nd Post!]

If you look at IBM's PCM site, they list 2 Commodore 286s and 4 Commodore 486s, and it's perfectly possible to upgrade a Commodore to some bastard Pentium chips. Of course he'd be limited to VESA video cards, probably, but it's completely possible to get Windows 95 running on one of those... or at least Linux.

Secret documents, smuggled out of Osama's cave

[Wariac]

Hi guys.

We've all been putting in long hours but we've really come together as a group and I love that. Big thanks to Omar for putting up the poster that says "There is no I in team" as well as the one that says "Hang In There, Baby." That cat is hilarious. However, while we are fighting a jihad, we can't forget to take care of the cave. And frankly I have a few concerns.

First of all, while it's good to be concerned about cruise missiles, we should be even more concerned about the scorpions in our cave. Hey, you don't want to be stung and neither do I so we need to sweep the cave daily. I've posted a sign up sheet near the main cave opening.

Second, it's not often I make a video address but when I do, I'm trying to scare the most powerful country on earth, okay? That means that while we're taping, please do not ride your razor scooter in the background. Just while we're taping. Thanks.

Third point, and this is a touchy one. As you know, by edict, we're not supposed to shave our beards. But I need everyone to just think hygiene, especially after mealtime. We're all in this together.

Fourth: food. I bought a box of Cheeze-Its recently, clearly wrote "Osama" on the front, and put it on the top shelf. Today, my Cheeze-Its were gone. Consideration. That's all I'm saying.

Finally, we've heard that there may be American soldiers in disguise trying to infiltrate our ranks. I want to set up patrols to look for them. First patrol will be Omar, Mohammed, Abdul, Akbar, and Richard.

Re:Secret documents, smuggled out of Osama's cave

[tdrury]

This was blatantly ripped off from FuckedCompany.com. See the post here. Why not give credit where credit is due?

-tim

Disgusting

[Ogerman]

To the operators of Slashdot:

1.) Please remove this article at once. It is a filthy assortment of random lies and is an embarrassment to the /. community and the reputation of this site.

2.) Please strongly consider firing Jon Katz for his lack of journalistic integrity. Better yet, decide via a Slashdot poll.

3.) A major improvement to Slashcode would be a system by which readers can moderate the posting of articles on the main page.

That being said, I am all for the overthrow of the Taliban regime and the restoration of the rights and freedoms of the Afghan people.

Cultural Narcotic

[4of12]

People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing,

American culture is all of those things.

The tidal wave of American culture is frightening and Borg like.

As long as it is seen this way, reactionary forces will gain support from the many who watch with despair as traditional culture and values developed over many centuries are replaced within a generation with what comes over satellite television from America.

It's too bad we're incapable of giving the Afghans freedom, democracy and human rights without simultaneously injecting a huge dose of consumerism laced with appeals to lust and violence.

Oh well, I suppose I can't fault the rest of the world for falling into the same traps that my fellow Americans have for decades. Don't like it? Don't watch it.

Re:Hmm, sounds odd...

[aka-ed]

Katz has been trolled. Or else he's trolling us. Kabul does not have electric power, let alone "Baywatch" or, god forbid, "Temptation Island."

It's ridiculous that Katz should take this at face value, or that /. editors would pass this on without comment. The minor effort required to check even one of the outlandish "facts" in this piece would have been worth some effort.

This is really sad. I've been after Katz to look at his journalistic basics since the day he decided that ABC TV was "wrong" when they used a hidden camera, wielded by a paid undercover operative, to show Red Lion supermarkets selling rotten meat.

He claimed that it was "unethical" to get a job at Red Lion with a falsified job app, even if you already knew potentially lethal poison was being sold to people.

At the time he was celebrating a decision (later overturned) that would have hog-tied such investigative practices.

He doesn't understand the basic debt that a journalist owes his readers, and probably never will. One can only hopes that he takes this embarassment as a lesson.

CIA factbook is a problematic source

[absurd_spork]

I wouldn't rely on information from the CIA World Factbook too much. The problem is mainly that it relies heavily on government sources. You can see this when you compare, for example, the literacy ratings for various countries. Most ex-Soviet countries are listed with 99 or near 99 percent, for example, which is a relic from Soviet times where they claimed the literacy rate to be 100%; they do have excellent literacy, but it's not quite that excellent. Now what sources did they have for Afghanistan? Do they list them anywhere? Are they credible?

Another problem is that some figures are pretty difficult to estimate. Consider "Internet users", for example. For Uzbekistan, for example, it lists 42 ISPs and 7500 Internet users. How on earth did they get that number? What constitutes an "Internet user"? How do they count Internet cafés which are really widespread in the cities of poorer countries, for example? Is an Internet café a single Internet user, or do they count the 100 or 200 regular café users individually? In the first case, the figure means nothing at all, in the second, it's plain wrong from personal experience.

Also, you never know precisely when they collected their data, which, in telecommunications or computing, does make quite a bit of a difference.

In general, be as careful with the CIA factbook as with any other source. In spite of the label, it does not only contain accurate facts, and the label "CIA" does not necessarily imply correctness of information.

Morality is not globally valid

[andkaha]

Mankind is my business, and yours too. Enslave someone *anywhere*, and I have the moral right to stop you. Morality does not stop at national borders.

It's not as simple as that. Do you have the right to e.g. punish someone that thinks he/she is doing the right thing, no matter what organisation, religion or culture that person belongs to?

You don't have the right to force someone to do (or don't do) something unless that other person "agrees" (has the same cultural, religious or ethnic backround, or lives in the same country and abides to the same laws).

I think things like for example the U.N. declaration of the human rights are good things, but some other things don't simply have global validity. You take them for granted, like double glased windows, central heating, universities without fees, and taking your shoes off when going indoors (I'm a Swede), but everyone else does not. You can't enforce things like that, not even the U.N. declaration of human rights, on anyone.

Enforcing a way of life upon someone is wrong. It is a violation of the integrity of the other person. It is denying everything that the other person is.

I'm not saying it's wrong to stop people hurting each other. I'm saying it's way wrong to call it your moral right to do so, because morality is not global.

And don't forget: The conflict in Aghanistan exists because of American foreign policy, because of economics, because of oil. Prove me wrong.

5000 people is a small prise to pay to ensure that ones interests in the middle east are not jeopardised. Don't come talking about moral, because moral is nothing.