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Message from Kabul
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.
Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)
"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.
Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.
If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.
There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one another all over the country; Junis isn't the only Afghan e-mailing these days. He says other coders and gamers hid their PC's as well. Meanwhile, he's especially eager to get his hands on the Apple iPod, and has been drooling over the Apple website site since he got back online. And some things, of course, never change. "I thought they were going to get Microsoft," he wrote. "I guess not."
A decade ago, when East Berlin teenagers stormed the Wall and crossed over into West Berlin, the first thing many of them did was rush to music stores to buy tapes and CD's they'd been secretly, illegally listening to for years.
The Taliban worked to create the antithesis of the American world, one without technology, computing, the Net, music, or any vestige of popular culture (not to mention women's rights, elections, a free press or any religion except fundamentalist Islam. Junis said people in his town risked their lives repeatedly, not to fight the Taliban, but to try and listen to CD's and watch videos smuggled in from Pakistan, watched in the dark under blankets and in cellars. It seems the outcome was inevitable.
Technology is part of evolution. You cannot stop, confine, or reverse technology. This is something the taliban has no chance of doing.
--
FearLinux.com
He's trying to download movies on a Commodore?
http://saveie6.com/
RTFP (Read The F***ing Post). He dug it up from a hiding spot underneath the chicken coop. Stop trolling, it's not amusing.
So let me get this straight - your friend was catching up with movies on a Commodore?
Still, interesting story.
It's about time the Afghan's can make their own decisions in peace. I hope they can form a democratic type government and live in peace. :-)
Daisy cutters and cluster bombs are kinda unfriendly. Not exactly "surgical" either..
.. that is too cruel.
But Baywatch
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
How can this Afghani geek afford an Ipod? When did DSL/broadband get into Kabul?
This story sounds fishy, but then it is Tuesday.
Does anyone else thing that this sounds an awful lot like someone got a fake email? A hoax, a sham, an untruth? It just seems too... too... too much like what we geeks would want to hear.
I reckon one of those could play movies.
Best Slashdot Co
Has he gotten spammed yet?
American culture is like junk food. Almost everybody really likes it but they feel bad for liking it. They know they should choose something that's better for them but they can't help it.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Does John make this stuff up? I have read many of his features and a lot of them seem to have a taste of fiction of sorts. I am sure it just comes from the slight embelishmnet he places on his writings but it just makes you wonder.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
They certainly were that repressive. But think about how Americans would react if a fundamentalist government seized power, banning computers, music and TV. Surely there would be a mass hiding of equipment against the day when the government fell.
I must say though, it makes me feel a little sick that the first thing the Afghans will see when they brush the soil from the TVs will be Jerry Springer, Temptation Island and MTV...
They open the theaters, people get their TVs and computers back. It's good.
But the women aren't allowed in the theater, they can't function in public, and they still aren't allowed to see doctors. It's not that removing the Taliban is a bad thing, but for a significant part of the population, the current status really hasn't gotten any better.
Food for thought, and it makes me thankful that I was born in the US and have the ability to say such things...
What are the odds that the copy of Independence Day is pirated.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
Of course, as nice as this sounds, the story is a little strange - I was under the impression there were almost no remaining international phone lines and that electricity was probably out in many of these areas, so I am a bit suspicious. But what do I know, maybe he has a generator and maybe the international phone lines are back up. Also the line about trying to download movies is definitely suspicious. At 9600 baud perhaps? OK, give them the benefit of the doubt, 28.8k. Doesn't sound too believable to me.
So I think this submission is either a bit of a hoax or a bit exaggerated, but it still is a nice sentiment even if the specifics are not true. And hopefully there is a guy somewhere in Afghanistan digging up his old Commodore.
Welcome Back!
Make no mistake, the Taliban is a really vile group of people who are as bad as they are made out to be. But also don't make the mistake of thinking that the U.S. government would have cared about them, their treatment of their citizens or Afghanistan in general if it weren't for 9/11.
Apart from the fact that he's supposedly saying that he's "downloading movies" on a commodore (ie a machine with little or no hard drive and no processing power to decode div-x's, with modems that are so antiquated that even downloading a 20meg divx would probably take a few weeks... no wonder he's furious...), it all sounds... I don't know... fake is probably the word.
As for digging up all the forbidden stuff as soon while they could still see the dust from the trucks of the talibans, that is just plain unbelievable. I doubt anyone who's just lived under such an oppressive regime would take that risk. What if they forgot something and drive back up to get it? Just because the trucks have driven away doesn't mean they're gone for good.
I would think that people living under oppressive regimes develop a sort of natural paranoia as a survival mechanism... my father who lived most of his life in communist Romania still has it twenty years after fleeing the country... I find it surprising that afghans would lose it in minutes...
Daniel
for the very good outlook of what is going on over there. It's nice to see that they can pick up their lives right away.
So, in the end it will be America's lust for half-naked teen nymphettes (I'm referring to Brittney Spears, Christina Agulera and the like -- not pr0n) that will promote the freedom of information and save us all from terrorism?
The people of Afghanistan don't have televisions, they don't have music, and they don't have telephones... but they have e-mail access one day after the Northern Alliance "liberates" the city? And, coincidentally, he likes Open Source and Slashdot? What???
I'm sorry, but I just can't honestly believe this story to be true without some kind of third-party verification. And even then, I'd still be skeptical. It just doesn't sound legit to me...
So the top three TV shows mentioned in the story ("acutely missed" is the phrase connected to one of them) are Baywatch, Survivor, and Temptation Island?
Three shows based on the concept of manly men frolicking with scantily-clad women, and in the latter two, premised on the assumption that all humans are conniving backstabbers, and that relationships cannot last in the face of lust, respectively.
And we're trying to convince the Middle East that America is a just and moral nation? Ya ha ha, whatever.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Does anyone else smell hoax? Propaganda?
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
You failed to ask the most important questions! ;)
What is the perception of the afghan's people about the US intervention? Do they feel that the sacrifice of innocents (accidents/mistakes on US forces part, but none less deadly) justify their new freedom? Do they feel that westerners should continue to use force to try to democratize Afghanistan? Or should the coalition now leave from their point of view?
I saw on TV an Afghan who lost 8 members of his family to US bombs. Yet, he had one message for the US forces: aim better. He did not asked to stop. Others though were very angry against the US after loosing some family member.
I want to know what the people of Afghanistan wants. I see some demonstrations in western countries asking for the bombings to stop. I say, that we might at least hear what the Afghan have to say. If they believe that the bombings are worthwhile, who are we to ask to stop these actions?
BTW, have you some websites/forums to suggest where we could directly interact with Afghanistan people? I would really like to have a few exchanges with some of them.
Remember the year 2000? They promised us flying cars. They delivered the PT Cruiser...
I hope that things don't move too fast in Afghanistan. It's easy to sit here in the west and think this is all fine and dandy, but if this all gets pushed in too fast it could end up being culture shock to a lot of people, and potentially generate more fundamentalist extremists (who would of course be anti-american). Afghanistan needs to change, but it needs to do it slowly. It needs to find that middle ground that most of the people will find socially acceptable.
For better or for worse, this once again proves that once Pandora's box is open you can't shut it, no matter how hard you try.
Having lived in Africa, I've seen firsthand how quickly, frighteningly so, things can change during a coup d'etat. People whose constraints have been mostly external for some time, lose control very quickly when those constraints are lifted, but within a few days things settle down and they regain their internal control/balance.
Perhaps we can get this guy from kabul to answer some questions for us?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
But think about how Americans would react if a fundamentalist government seized power, banning computers, music and TV. Surely there would be a mass hiding of equipment against the day when the government fell.
Nope, there would be a mass march of gun owners on Washington, loaded and ready.
This will never happen, though, because only the Amish and Luddite freaks don't see the value of technology. Even the most rigid fundies still want to be able to proselytize via the net.
Good thing I don't give a damn about karma.
Best Slashdot Co
a few things that REALLY make me think that Katz either made this crap up, or is the victim of a VERY poorly fabricated hoax:
1 - I know it's been said already, but it bears repeating...how does one download MOVIES on an "ancient commodore"? And furthermore, how does one play them?
2 - When you're living in Afghanistan, who do you call to get internet access?
3 - If the guy's using that "ancient commodore", what would prompt him to salivate over an IPod? First of all, it's doubtful that he would have ever acquired even a single MP3 file, let alone enough to fill an IPod. Oh, and Commodores didn't have firewire back in my day. Seems like the guy would be more likely to lust after a 2-year old Athlon system and a broadband connection rather than an IPod.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed this pile of absolute rubbish. Katz should be sent over to Kabul to investigate the situation himself.
Didn't the Taliban STRICTLY regulate technology? The Taliban thought the Internet was evil, after all, and outlawed it. So I find it HIGHLY suspicious that someone managed to start up an ISP in the middle of this war, and that someone else out there is more concerned about getting on Slashdot than staying alive and eating, which is what 99% of the Afghani population is probably concerned with.
This was bullshit. Sorry, but it *can't* be legit.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Perhaps this "Afghani" sent you a picture he got, too, right? It looks like this, right?
I tell my mother when she gets emails like the one you have, katz, is to first check snopes, then check the local news (if it isn't on the news, then it isn't real, usually).
Think about it. A computer geek in afghanastan finally gets his computer (commodore, mind you), and whats one of the first people he emails? Jon Katz? Hmmm....
Sorry, but I'm waaay to skeptic for this (and I'm religious...)
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Just recently there was this posting on globalization and I posted that /. means globalization, since it brings people from around the world together. Now I read that /. story on this guy from Afghanistan, while a few minutes away, airlifters start for their 24h trip to bring food to Afghanistan.
I'd never really thought of it before seeing this post, but the one common factor you always hear small town residents use to describe their lives is "Everyone Knows Everyone." I'm probably being a pollyana here, but I believe that the "Global Village" is doing the same thing, helping people throughout the world understand (and hopefully get along) with each other.
I had a grandfather who went to West Point and served with distinction in the U.S. Army in WWII. A good, honorable man in many ways, but also a bigot down to his bones. I can't help but wonder what sort of man he'dve been if he could've clicked on a website growing up and learned how people live in Saudi Arabia or Tokyo or even just the "wrong side of the tracks" in his hometown.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
Despite the many technical questions this has already raised (movies on ancient computers). I see that this is a fine example for how a government can not retain control of a people if it is not representing their interests. It is especially helpful to remember this anytime I see the US Gov leaders doing things I didn't want them to do when I voted. People will be free, and they can have what they want once they work out what that is and seek it as a group.
Wester/US music was never illegal in the GDR.
You couldn't buy it in stores, but there were a lots of other things you couldn't buy in stores, sometimes even toilet paper.
Pupils where playing Western music on school excursions and no teachers objected.
It was in the 60 illegal to watch Western TV but this was stopped in the 70ies.
However admitting it openly later might have called on the STASI, but only hardcore communists would not watch Western TV.
And this was mainly because of the NEWS and INFORMATION and not entertainment crap.
In this respect, I suppose your stuff here would have been allowed to read in the GDR.
It seems you've lost a lot of freedom recently - I haven't seen anyone march. Besides do you seriously believe a group of disorganized people with handguns an rifles is actually a match for the US army - one of the most modern and best trained armies in the world? Didn't work terribly well for the Taliban just now, did it?
I got an e-mail from Timmy-bin Hashareef. He has cancer of the appendix. It said for every time you forwarded his e-mail, the Afghanistan chapter of the American Appendix Society would donate little Timmy 3 cents and a camel. It also said that if you didn't forward the e-mail, you would get beaten by the Taliban. SEND OUT THE WORD KATZ! THIS IS 274% TRUE!
haha I want a pink slip with Katz's name on it for Christmas.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Well, it could be.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
A decade ago, when East Berlin teenagers stormed the Wall and crossed over into West Berlin, the first thing many of them did was rush to music stores to buy tapes and CD's they'd been secretly, illegally listening to for years. Oh, ya right! Thats like saying napster fans rushed to buy cds in stores once the cd was officially released, even though they had been listening to it 'illegally' for weeks before... HA!
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
It really comes down to this. This email is suspect because it is written in a very american perspective and anybody who has traveled extensively outside of the US knows that most of the world doesn't work or think this way. I feel this person would be just simply unable to gain the ideology expressed here. But on the other hand, I could be wrong.... -Sean
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere
Surely life has improved tremendously in the few days since the Taliban left Kabul. And certainly many people are enjoying new (old) freedoms. However, your description is a gross exaggeration -- "everybody", "everywhere". Resistance groups like the RAWA have already expressed concern that life under groups like the Northern Alliance will be like life in Afghanistan was in the years before 1996 -- still brutal and repressive, just not in the extreme. While the picture of people shaving their forced beards off in masses or playing music and partying is certainly relieving, it is contrasted by a reality of executions/murders and, likely, rape. (Also, to be sure, many people are quite happy with their beards and appreciated the censorship and repression by the Taliban, much like many Germans supported the nazis completely.) Save the picture of "liberated Afghanistan" for the day when Afghanistan is actually liberal.
Fortunately, the US government seems to be pushing for a secular Afghanistan, but do not be satisfied just because the Taliban are going into guerilla mode. The Northern Alliance are merely the lesser evil.
If I lived under the Taliban for 5 years and finally got back a net connection, emailing JonKatz wouldn't be on the top of my list. Maybe the Taliban really messed with his mind...
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
On a commodore? TCP/IP stacks have existed for the 8-bit systems for years.
Linux for commordores.
http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lunix.html
Instructions for getting it to work
http://cbm.videocam.net.au/chapter18.php
Maybe if it had been an Atari it would have been more credable. POWER WITHOUT THE PRICE OH YEAH!
It is a chilling, sober reality that we all must face.
I have a hard time believing this story. Most of you probably feel the same way. While Slashdot isn't a primary news provider like CNN it is considered by many of us a place to get information. Now, how in the world can I be expected to believe anything Mr. Katz has to say after this? His reputation is shot...
Of course we torture people, we need the information --Gen. Pinochet
But it has worked many times over throughout history. My fear leading in to the current war was that this would be the case. I was worried that the US was liberating people who didn't want to be liberated.
If it ain't a Model M, it's a piece of crap.
For godsake this sounds like the most hockum hooey I've heard in a long time. "Independence Day" as a movie to rent. Lets get this straight
30miles outside of Kabul there is a video shop (lets pretend that one is reasonable) which saved its copies of "Independence Day" which it was renting to an audience which in the vast majority of cases doesn't speak english.
Hokum, baloney and rubbish. This sounds about as likely as a lead balloon circumnavigating the globe. I've read some vomit inducing stuff here from Katz but this takes the biscuit. Quite simply unadulterated rubbish. Movies on a commadore, what browser is our Afghan friend using and what player ?
You've been had Katz by one of the most transparent hoaxes I've ever seen.
I have bridges you might want to buy.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Mr. Katz, Your story sounds to me as if you had just watched a heart-warming holiday film and decided to right this fascade about the little geek that got his Christmas wish ( if he celebrated Christmas ). His country has been in utter turmoil in for the better part of 20 years. between civil war, the US and Russia invading and reducing most of the country to rubble. A zealotous government. Do you really think we are dumb enough to believe that this country still has the infrastructure and resources to: A) provide unlimited phone/DSL/cable/satellite ISP services to the masses ( most people I know outside of the US and Canada pay by the minute for dial-up service) B) physical infrastructure in the form of servers, cable/phone/fiber to allow public use outside of relief and military operations. C) these people could actually pay for these services after housing clothing and feeding their families. ( last time I checked I couldn't barter goats for bandwidth) D) You can't watch movies on a commodore (640k hard disk?) or even cache a image heavy pron site E) Just STFU and save your stories for your kids Katz
Hi All -
I think you all know that I don't send out hoaxes and don't do the reactionary thing and send out anything that crosses my path. This one, however, is a friend of a friend and I've given it enough credibility in my mind that I'm writing it up and sending it out to all of you.
My friend's friend was dating a guy from Afghanistan up until a month ago. She had a date with him around 9/6 and was stood up. She was understandably upset and went to his home to find it completely emptied. On 9/10, she received a letter from her boyfriend explaining that he wished he could tell her why he had left and that he was sorry it had to be like that. The part worth mentioning is that he BEGGED her not to get on any commercial airlines on 9/11 and to not to go any malls on Halloween. As soon as everything happened on the 11th, she called the FBI and has since turned over the letter.
This is not an email that I've received and decided to pass on. This came from a phone conversation with a long-time friend of mine last night.
I may be wrong, and I hope I am. However, with one of his warnings being correct and devastating, I'm not willing to take the chance on the second and wanted to make sure that people I cared about had the same information that I did.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in a small town 35 miles southwest of Kabul.
I have two questions for Katz:
1. Since when have forwarded e-mails been reliable journalistic sources?
2. Doesn't this sound suspiciously like the beginning of a "[name] is dying of cancer, will receive [amount of money] for every time this e-mail is forwarded" chain letter?
At least the poor kid didn't try and set up a website. Hehe... his Commodore would quickly learn the meaning of the phrase "/. effect."
I have kept upon the "WAR" alot since its beginningand there are about Five Telephone lines that are of high enough quality to support internet service coming in to afgan, all from pakistan. even the service providers are in pakistan. the odds that this guy was able to hookup to an ISP within mere minutes,or hours after the Taliban left are about next to zero. Not that i am saying it couldn't happen just so damn unlikly that it is unbelivable, I mean really guys, stop and look around at who is posting this story......
not to mention that all the phone lines and other basic infastructure have been pounded for years, by first the soviets, than the Tech hating Taliban, followed by the US. I truly doubt there is anything beyond basic power left.....However I do acknowlage that I could be wrong, and if I am good for the Afgans. but I don't think so.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
1) The Taliban are ignorant and like it that way. They didn't want to know about the US Army because to push around women and children and keep control of one of the poorest countries in the world, they didn't need to. We hit them by surprise as much as anything else.
2) Some of these gun owners are veterans that have HAD the training of the US Army and know everything there is to know about the equipment, including its strengths, weaknesses, and how to sneak into the armory at Fort Whatever.
3) We haven't lost as much freedom as it seems. Basically, only people who were doing shady things to begin with lost freedom. I'm not a criminal so I don't give a shit if they have the right to wiretap all my phones - I'll never give them a reason to, and I know enough cops to know that they won't expend the energy without a good reason. My government doesn't care about me, which in this case is good.
Okay.
But could someone please explain to me about communist China?
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
Yeah right. So what does this guy do, call over to Pakistan to connect to an ISP? I don't believe it. Between destroyed telecom infrastructure and insanely high international LD rates even if you COULD make a call, it just doesn't sound credible. Downloading and watching movies on a Commodore? Balooooooney. The rest of the details sound way too contrived and "convenient" to be the real deal. Show us the email headers, Katz. I want to know how you determined that it went from Kabul to Islamabad to London to you. This sounds like a crock.
Fried ice cream is a reality. - George Clinton
Yeah, I am rather suspicious of the whole thing, too. As Eddy Izzard says, "The infrastructure's fucked." (God: "Oh? Well, have some jam. And here's a radiator.")
It looks like Katz is the butt of someone's joke. Without some backing evidence (such as complete mail headers showing routes, and evidence that the headers aren't forged), I consider this a kremvax.
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
I mean really - I for one would like to see Katz own up to this one and issue an apology for passing it off as real. Who else feels the same way?
OHH Yeah...Slashdot and open source are his favorite things. You sir are a liar.
"Science Explores, Technology Executes, Man Conforms." -1929 Worlds' Fair
Burying the stuff that represents your freedom.
Yep, I will be burying my guns as soon as the anti-constitutional anti-gun lobby succeeds.
They will wait for me until the oppressive regime is over.
"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time."
Just got right back to business when the Taliban left huh?
Kinda reminds me of the Saturday Night Live episode where the white people on the bus immediately started back their party as soon as the black dude left.
Hey Mohamed, the Taliban is gone, wanna play some pong? Sure Ashwan, let me just dig up my commodore.
Hi, my name is Junis. I live in a town 35 miles from Kabul in Afganistan. I am doing a school project to see how many people can read an email in 30 days. Please forward this to everyone you know, and keep the headers intact.
Thank you, your pal,
Junis
P.S. I really like Jon Katz, he is great.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Hate to break it to you, but just such a government is trying to seize power and ban computers, music, and TV - at least, when used to express anything they disagree with (which is most of the time) or when their sponsors haven't been paid off to their satisfaction. Fortunately, they haven't been able to get their act completely together yet, and some in the government remain dedicated to to principles on which America was founded.
If he is using a Commodore, obviously money is not freely flowing out of his pockets. Then it states "Meanwhile, he's especially eager to get his hands on the Apple iPod" ...that ipod is around 300 USD...AND it only works with an Apple computer. You schuur the email you received was legit, Jon?
So have a good drown as you go down, all alone, dragged down by the stone.
We'd all love to read it.
[mod this up if you agree -- I'm at the cap anyway, so I'm not KW'ing]
for Dallas and Kojak reruns drove the shipbuilders of Gdansk to the barricades. Katz is our own Mrs. Malaprop.
illegitimii non ingravare
I'd be interested in a similar success story about China.
Yes, they have internet. But it's highly regulated and censored.
Yes, they have foreign TV stations. Who are all too willing to self-censor so as not to offend the government, for which they in turn get the privilege to sell to an audience of a billion people.
And while you're at it, show us what good technology does in North Korea with respect to human freedom.
New wiretapping laws, around 1000 people locked up with no right to habeas corpus and more to come. Straight from your Orwellian office of "Homeland Security"...
However, the line of reasoning that the Taliban effectively eliminated internet access the the entire country is possibly incorrect.
http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-satellites/
Way to tip off the world to the location of American special forces troops. Their blood is on your hands.
Idiot.
- Freed
"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
The threat of the 2nd Amendment to usurping politicians has always been much more potent to make politicians nervous about assassination than to fight the US armed forces. The Interior department was so heavy handed during the Clinton administration that they were seriously talking about certain areas being quite high risk in implementing their land use directives. Suddenly, everything calmed down as soon as Bush got in but a Gore administration would have probably lost some agents if they kept going in that direction
DB
I was ROFL :-)) I am sure people in Kabul (for that matter in Pakistan or in any of the *stans) don't give a rats ass about FTC getting Microsoft.
This seems to be somebody's fantasy...
>>>>>>>>>Hey Jon, did
>>>>>>>>>>>the email have
>>>>>>>>>>a closing line
>>>>>>>>>kinda like my
>>>>>>>>>>subject line?
Fried ice cream is a reality. - George Clinton
Truly...this was just horrendous. I come here for "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." Not phony crap emails about some afghani hooking up his TRS-80 to download DIVX movies of bouncing breasts in wonderful 80x20 resolution at 10hz with 2 colours. You should be able to mod posts down so I don't even have to see this junk.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
OK, as already pointed out, this letter is 99.9% likely to be a fake. Jon, either say something, update the article, present proof, or make a retraction!!
I can't believe that someone working for slashdot would actually believe this stuff.
Jon, I'm not your biggest supporter, I'll admit, but this is just garbage! Why would you think some kid would single you out, find your email (which isn't easy), and write an email (I'm sure he's using OutLook on his commodore to do it, too).
Jon, lets stick to nerd topics, and quit milking politics. News for nerds? Funny, I can't think of many nerds that enjoy talking politics. Lets stick to Open Source, Linux, and internet tools like your boss says.
There goes the karma cap for me....
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Really, if this guy is for real, get him to write an article about his experiences. See if you can get him a digial camera to take pictures, and some way to get them out of Afganistan. Even if you just give him a way to mail you the disk, it would be worth it.
The best thing in the world, for the world, is for people there to get their experiences out!
www.eFax.com are spammers
there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.
:wq
Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired.
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
This shows why it's imperative that the US promote free trade with China and every other nation not actively inimicable to us, and why it's completely unnecessary that we establish a pro-US government in Afghanistan; we merely need to remove the anti-US government and back off. Repeat as necessary.
If they aren't attacking our people, back off and leave 'em alone. If they are, destroy them, and let their people sort out the relacement themselves.
The best defense is a lack of enemies. That means don't create enemies, and once you have them, eliminate them.
Maybe I should dig out my Okidata color printer and send it to him so he can print out his porn. Tell him to go easy on that tri-color ribbon, they're probably hard to find now. You can rewind the ribbon and use it a few times to save money if you don't care too much about the quality. Of course, it's extremely slow since the ribbon has repeating 8.5" segments of C, Y, &M, and needs to make three passes per line. But I guess he'll have time enough to print while waiting for the next image to download on his 1200bps modem.
10 PRINT "THE TALIBAN SUCKS"
20 GOTO 10
RUN
Oh, and did I miss an article about Linux ported to the C64? I haven't been reading the Linux on xbox/ps2/dreamcast/washingmachine/toasteroven posts too carefully.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
Have you ever met anyone in the US Military? You try to ban guns, the first thing they do is turn their military weapons against you. People in the military aren't the robots blindly following orders you think they are. So Sorry, Wrong Answer, spin it again Vanna!
1) click on "Preferences" on the upper right hand of the page
2) go to the "authors" column, check "JonKatz"
3) click "submit"
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
This guy from just outside of Kabul will get another rude, nasty surprise when he figures out that a C64 can't download or play movies from the Internet very well at all. Poor guy, he'll have to wait for them to get released in the video store or something.
"Look at me, I invented the stove!" -- Ben Franklin
Take a look at CmderTaco and you will see a lot of -1's. He aint the real CmdrTaco, just an AC with an account.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
I agree too...
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
John says: "Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired."
.af domain then yes, you could be suspicious, but if John has known this guy for years then he's in a better position to judge than we are.
If you got a random email from someone you've never heard of from a
Baz
I don't believe this for a moment. I hope Katz is above simply fabricating something like this, but I have no idea why he would just 'describe' the letter rather then reposting it here so we can all see for ourselves.
And as others mentioned, you can't download movies to a commodore, it just wont happen And he wouldn't have been able to do 'modern' programming on it for a long time. While I have heard reports of video stories and movie theaters opening back up, they're more likely to renting Indian and Pakistani films. Although I'm sure some people go for the American ones as well.
And comments about the iPod and Macs? Yeh, right. This sounds like more of a katzian fantasy to me. How would he even hear about the thing? And why would he want it rather then more reasonable mp3 players. After all, on a pure modem link he isn't going to be able to download movies.
And unless the northern alliance has managed to get DSL installed in the past few days, he isn't going to be downloading movies no matter what computer he has.
Katz if you have an journalistic credibility, post the actual message.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
did read the article, and thats why I find it odd that people could simply hide technology under the noses of the taliban so easily if they were sooo oppressive...
Um, if the stuff is *hidden* from the Taliban, how are they supposed to just destroy it? They did destroy everything they could--just look at those 1800 year old Buddha statues they blew up in March.
Sort of like the drug "war" in the US--according to your logic, the US government should be able to find drugs and get rid of them in a moment, even though they are right under their noses.
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
The RIAA has said today, that it is conserned after seeing reports that file-sharing services such as Gnutella have increased in activity recently after Afgan childeren have begun download eminem, britny and agulera songs that they have missed over the past few years. The main concern highlighted by the recording industry is that there is simply no market penatration in the country - with cd sales currently standing at 0, per month. There are legal debates as to weather this means there is 'piracy' in afganistan.
The porn industry is on an economic up, after the new market of Afganistan has opened up. Hardcore Movie(tm) downloads are said to be at an all time high.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I'd love to believe this, but no.
Still, the guy must be brilliant - not only has he got a five year old Commodore to get onto the Apple site, with a five year old browser, over non-existent phone lines but he's planning on spending five years wages on an ipod too?
It's bollocks.
I've been to the area and know the sort of conditions. First up, if anyone is using email in Afghanistan it is not over the standard POTS. If much of that is still remaining, it is in no way any condition to get a data connection over. Internet connections in Afghanistan are satellite (Bin Laden's is, so are the Aid Agencies and the journalists). So unless our hero has a either a sat phone, or a 3ft dish in his back garden, I doubt he sent an email from anywhere in the area.
"Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London" is not the way it would go - if I remember correctly, the main Pakistani bandwidth goes via Singapore. Unless Katz means this email was sent to someone in Kabul who forwarded it to someone etc etc etc.
In which case I'd hazard a guess to say the first passing was on paper, not electronically.
Next, "Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)"
Well, Hotwired's URL was first registered on 21-Apr-1994, but Katz's first writings were on Netizen. That started in 1996. The Taliban took Kabul in 1996, so Junis must have been quick. Obsessed with Linux then, sure - but now mesmerized by open source?
Which brings us to I thought they were going to get Microsoft," he wrote. "I guess not."
How did he know of the court case? Meanwhile, where did he learn perfectly idiomatic English? "Get" Microsoft? I "guess not"?
Temptation Island? Survivor? Riight - an area that until a week ago was isolated from the rest of the world is now aware and anticipatory of a tv show that is not even being aired on a nearby satellite network?
I'd love to believe this, I really would. But it's smelly as all hell, not to mention the highly dubious "they did it all for the toys" politics.
Still, if JK posts the email, with the headers, I'll be happy to believe, and drink a toast to Junis and his friends.
Re:Jon Katz Suck Ass!
He's so right.
- kengineer
((satire))
Cheers,
-- RLJ
if you're not getting the joke
Do you realize that on the first day of rifle deer season in Pennsylvania, where I live, something like the forth largest standing army in the world walks into the woods to shoot deer? There are nearly as many firarms in this country as there are people. More than a third of our population owns them. And, do you really think that the majority of the US armed services would actually fire upon there own families? There is a very good reason for the second amendment. The NRA and GOA helping politicians who realize this to stifle anti-gun laws on almost a weekly basis. Yes, we may continue to lose some of our gun rights, but there is a threshhold. For those of us who may not rise up in anarchy, we would certainly hide our guns like Junis did with his computer.
Just show them a replay of Sunday's Britney Spears concert from Vegas. Checkmate.
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
from the comfortable confinds of Jon's Herman-Miller chair...
Jon, did you research your story? Try to verify the facts? Try to corraborate it with conventional news broadcasts?
Jon Katz: reporter, commentator, or story teller? (a/k/a fact, opinion, or fiction?)
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
reality is not in a book.
1984, for whatever insight it offered, wasn't anything more than a product of the imagination of Orwell.
Similarly, The Old Man and the Sea was nothing but a product of Hemingways mind.
Neither is any kind of authoritative guide on the human condition. They are both opinions and reflections of reality. You cannot use them to deduce anything more about human nature and/or 'spirit' than you could by watching 'Indiana Jones'.
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
Today, Mr. Katz starts with "An open information society is inevitable." But in the past, he often chose to rail on the ad hominemly named "Big Media" for, well, trying to silence other opinions. You've seen this drivel -- Katz claiming that CNNSIAOLTIMEWARNERLOONEYTOONS will take over the world, imposing de facto restrictions on certain opinions, etc.
But today, open information is inevitable.
Seriously, what am I missing?
Make no mistake, the Taliban is a really vile group of people who are as bad as they are made out to be. But also don't make the mistake of thinking that the U.S. government would have cared about them, their treatment of their citizens or Afghanistan in general if it weren't for 9/11.
Please mod parent up. It just isn't right to rate this as flamebait.
Don't believe me? Just take a better look at some of our allies in the war against terrorism.
If this is true then humanity is doomed! We deserve to be wiped out by the first alien race that happens upon us...that is if we don't do it to ourselves first.
You're using her as bait, Master!
I guess you missed: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/20/131223 9&mode=thread. Where fundamentalism, especially of the religious type, rules society, it will not be free. This is particularly true where the people buy into the religious ideals.
yeah, and i didn't think that a bunch of farmers could beat the british army in the 1700s either, but i was apparently wrong.
That's slightly different--back then, the farmers and the british had basically the same weaponry--muskets. Yeah, the british had cannons, but so did we.
Now, a march with a bunch of people carrying rifles isn't quite a match agains F-15s, helicopter gunships, and cluster bombs.
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
It's good to know PsyOps is alive and well.
you realized how valuable tha thing really was.
We take for granted our TVs, internet, computers, pr0n, our liberty, etc. in such a way that sometimes we don't see how valuable these things are.
let's keep an eye on this new free Afghanistan, they can teach us a lot on this subject.
What ? Me, worry ?
This reeks of unmitigated, unsubstantiated horse crap...I think you need to
- Give substantiation to your facts
- Cite your sources
- Pull this crap you made up
I cannot believe that-- The Hollow Man
Non illegitimati carborundum
only the Amish and Luddite freaks don't see the value of technology
On the surface, I agree with your comment: there's value present in the technology that is worth appreciating, no matter what your views are.
However, the implication that the Amish or others who choose not to adopt technology do not see the value or are freaks is offensive, dangerous, and probably flat out wrong.
It's my understanding that the Amish are not strictly against adopting technology. But they always check what adopting it will do to their economy, community, culture, and lifestyle. Then they make a decision.
Hence, you'll see community telephones/cellphones. It's really not all that unreasonable to note that technologies have benefits and secondary impacts (some of which are negative), and to choose acordingly. In reality, I think this is what a smart culture does.
You could, of course, argue that this makes them like the Taliban... screening new ideas and technologies to make sure nothing they don't like gets in. I think the difference is that the Amish don't use violence as a means of enforcing the conventions of their community, nor do they use force as a means of coercing people to stay. They are free to join another community with different standards if they want.
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
What odd logic... ...
So then I guess you can say the Nazis were misunderstood also... since there were so many Jews in Hiding
If the U.S. passed a law saying the ownership of computers was punishable by death, I'd hide mine too.
Hey, it wasn't cheap.
Is it just me or does this whole thing seem made up? I mean if I had been asked in the 5th grade to "write a fictitional account of what you think the NOW somewhat free children would do since the meanies have left town..." I could have came up with something really similar to this.
Dear Slashdot: "I love this freedom thing. My day went something like this: I dug up my trusty old C64 to surf the web a bit and download movies. I then spent a few minutes getting caught up on kernal patches -- (man that Linus guy sure is fast). Next I thought I would watch a little baywatch and break out the old Madonna posters. Later on I got together with my friends to go grab a coke and sub at the local deli, and then we all go out and rent this months versions of the re-released star wars movies.....life again is good!"
THE END.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Just a loose thought in the middle of all these raving rants...
What if this mail was real, coming from Afghanistan but it had been written by someone that actually had access to a PC relatively updated, someone whith the money and freedom in that land, someone from the old taliban government?
This might be more a distraction than a hoax...
coffee | nose > keyboard ©
After a while the taliban relented and started allowing female doctors to practice again. I guess they realized the problem when their wives and daughters started getting sick...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
But then Jon Katz comes along, and shows them who really is king when it comes to half-assed, inane leftist propaganda for half-assed, inane leftist propaganda's sake. I don't know what's worse, that I was expecting an Osama with a canadian style mouth having homosex with Satan, or that Katz is still allowed to have anything to do with Slashdot. C'mon, did he manage to get you drunk and sign a 30 year contract?
I think my point was more along the lines of a reminder that even though Katz is waving the modernization and free information and everything is gonna be great flag, there's a whole lot of people over there who currently aren't able to get on that boat.
Every Amiga owner I've known has called them Amigas, never as Commodores. They were adamant that their multi-tasking, awesome sound and graphics Amigas were not mistaken for the simple little more than a console system that was the C64 that the rest of us had.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
My guess is that it has something to do with the international consipiracy to prolong the career of David Hasselhoff (see also: singing career, Germany, etc.)
OTOH, maybe people just like to watch hot babes running around in bathing suits
The American government prevents this somewhat, by allowing way more student visas then immigration visas. So while it's easy to get into the US to study, it's not always so easy to stay and get a job afterwards. So a lot of people do go back.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I don't think I know enough about networking to do something useful with them myself. But I do believe that people here on /. have the skill and the means to figure out if the header information is true, and maybe find out where the sender is (assuming the headers are real..). Since our friend JK said he knows the places that the message had to go through to get to him, I thought it would be nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about corroborate his story.
Personally, I think the whole thing is big pile of cow-dung. But that's just me...
I have to applaud the resourcefulnes of the Afgan programmers. Downloading and playing movies on a C64 sounds very difficult.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
if the first thing he does is email Katz!
you have way too much time on your hand, probably because "Many posters on slashdot describe themselves as nerds or geeks, societal outcasts. Posting to slashdot is their only true sense of community, and they view karma as a measure of popularity or status." get a life.
Whore me up!
Sound waves should be free!
There will be no valid comments to a post that was already not valid. For example, anything by Jon Katz. Well, that's just my opinion anyway. Perhaps some would agree with me.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
There have been reports (well one report that I've heard, actually) of a guy who dug up his big-screen TV after the taliban fled Kabul. It may have been a trend, after all it's not like people in the US can't get their hands on drugs despite the hard line our government has taken on them.
Kabul also has electricity and some telephone access. I seriously doubt someone in a village 'suburb' or Kabul would have access to those things.
And yeh, slashdot? (which wasn't very popular in 1996) The Microsoft case (which hadn't started in 1996) the iPod!?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
- Some taliban government official, quoted in an article on wired.com, summer 2001
"The internet interprets censorship and routes around it, although occasionally it takes a little longer and involves a bit more busting of heads than John Gilmore of the EFF might originally have imagined."
- Some guy in Afghanistan, November 2001.
Come on guys, THINK about what you are posting. This is horse crap, you know it now, and you should have known it before this went on the front page. Frankly, I expect you pull this story until you can substantiate it or post a retraction.
-- The Hollow Man
Non illegitimati carborundum
You know, Ben Franklin used to pull this type of crap all the time, both in the colonies when trying to rally support against the UK, and in France where he had published outrageous lies about British soldiers massacaring women and children during the war to boost French support in money and aid.
Is Katz thinking himself grand and trying to do likewise for the "benefit of society"? Thinking "if it just saves one childs life by making the slashdotters support aid to those Afghan geeks"? And trying to anti-globally disgust us with the tounge-in-cheek suggestion of Afghans watching Temptation Island. urgh..
I would really like a statement from Katz on this.
Silence Dogood
I choose not to watch TV most of the time, and most people are OK with that. Certainly no one forces me to watch it. The occasional show slips through. But I still haven't seen survivor...
They had several 8088-based PC's before they went under. :)
'Course his movies would be playing at about 1-fph (one frame per hour)... Worse torture than anything the Taliban ever came up with!
I call bullshit.
We cared about them enough to impose sanctions against them nearly from day one of their rule and to condemn their destruction of antiquities.
But I guess THINKING before you post isn't on your to-do list today, is it?
Yes, the U.S. could be a LOT better at telling other countries to get on the ball when it comes to human rights - but I've found that the people who want us to intervene in this manner are also the same ones who scream loudest when U.S. businesses 'destroy' local customs and traditions through factory farming, factory work, etc.
You can't have it both ways. We either interfere or don't!
of course there's just enough holes in this story to keep anyone from being able to determine whether it's even based on truth or not from only the information here, but i truly hope that either way, there ARE stories of this sort happening in Afghanistan, and that stories such as this aren't just a lot of well-intentioned hogwash designed to keep the american public from realizing that dispite the fact that we're about to win vietnam here, it's going to be a hell of a lot harder to live with afterwards this time.
Yes.
What is it that makes you think that American psyche has somehow changed from the civil war or is somehow different from that of all the other people in the world who have fired upon their fellow citizens?
How about a Q&A session with this guy? If Katz has a way to email him, and if this whole thing is real, I'm sure there's a bunch of folks out
there who sincerely want to hear about life
in Afganastan under Taliban rule, without all
of the media fluff.
What do ya say slashdot? Katz? (And yes, I submitted this as a story idea too.)
There is neither sand nor oil in afghanistan.
Maybe you should learn something before spouting your ignorant head off.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Your first line is moronic. Define your terms. Is this what you mean:
Open and free information just like CNN and MTV?
Inevitible just like the Wired pronouncements of a Dow Jones at 25,000?
Such a corporate monkey.
FU and all you stand for.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
I spent some time in Uzbekistan this October for academic reasons. Uzbekistan is not the most advanced place on Earth, but it's still light years ahead of what's left of Afghanistan with regards to telecommunications infrastructure.
Now, in Uzbekistan I had quite trouble getting Internet access outside the larger cities such as Samarqand or Tashkent; in rural areas, where you've partly still got manually switched telephone lines, you can just about forget it. It's Soviet telecom infrastructure, basically.
So how on Earth is this guy supposed to have Internet access in rural Afganistan where you can't even take it for guaranteed that there's electricity or running water, let alone toilets or telecom infrastructure? (All of this experienced in southern rural Uzbekistan.)
So either this guy has a satellite phone and a generator hooked up to his ancient Commodore to download movies with, or he's in one of the rare villages with running telephone on a one-phone-per-village basis and continually occupies it for use with the 1200 baud acoustic coupler modem and his Commodore to download movies and inform himself about getting Linux on his Commodore, or this is just a hoax.
The sad thing is that it's such a primitive hoax in the first place - just like the "technology conquers all" nerd variation of the romantic patriotic young outlaw theme.
So unless I get to read the original e-mail including forward information some time soon, JonKatz goes down in the dumpster for me.
There is absolutely no reason to panic.
But we also gave them $43 million dollars earlier this very year because they banned drugs.
So much for sanctions/condemnation. Keep up the good work, guys.
link
What business is it of ours how women are treated in Afghanistan?
Mankind is my business, and yours too. Enslave someone *anywhere*, and I have the moral right to stop you. Morality does not stop at national borders.
Ask orthodox Jews or the Amish if they'd like to be forced to "modernize", and see what they think!
The Taliban forced people to do things they didn't want to do. It's not like all of Afghanistan sat down and agreed, "OK, women stay at home, don't get schooling, and have to wear burqas." People with guns forced others to behave that way.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
As for the fact that Junis had allegedly emailed Katz before, if Katz wrote about that for Hotwired, perhaps someone trolled him using that knowledge. If so, it would qualify as the best /. troll ever!
Either that, or Katz is exaggerating and adding details to suit his story, or simply completely inventing Junis - which would be even worse than if he was trolled. This is a hole out of which Katz cannot dig himself - he finally seems to have exposed his cluelessness and/or deceitfulness beyond any possibility of a plausible defense.
So let me get this straight: we're supposed to debate ideas Katz brings up as a result of being trolled? You claim he's a "respected geek journalist". There's only one problem with that - the article we're responding to has nothing in common with any kind of journalism. It has all the credibility of the original hoax that Katz seems to have fallen for. The only debate here is about what disrepute Katz brings to the term "journalist".
I would be greatly amused to find out that someone has been playing an extremely long and drawn out practical joke on Katz...
Whether Katz is being accurate and honest here is up for debate, but what I love is the incredulousness. Like:
.. it's imPOSSIBLE that he had those things, otherwise we might be forced to admit that the 'liberty' of being American really isn't that far off of many other places in the world. (Heck, do you really think a woman could be the president of the USA?)
.. no where did he say it was a 64
What?! He can download movies? He knew about the MS case? Baywatch? Damnit
At any rate, it's absolutely infuriating to see Americans so indignantly resolute in their assuption that Afganistan = Backwards = No One has a Clue What Goes On in the Real World. They were under an oppressive rule, and could be KILLED for simple things like using computers. That doesn't mean they sat around for 8 years with their thumbs up their asses, waiting for the Americans to get pissed off at their leaders, only to 'liberate' them into a world of higher pop culture conciousness. Sheesh. No doubt some Afgans secretly kept short wave radios. It's possible that some of the US Army commandos are providing satillite uplinks (just a guess, probably not). There are LOTS of reasons why Katz' story could be true.
When people talk about Americans being self-involved, this is what they are talking about! What bothers me is not whether Katz is being honest or not (and you don't really need to make up stories in times like this unless you're gunning for public support of military action or resctriction of civil liberties), but how people cannot ACCEPT things.
Shit, it's not like the entire population of Afghanistan ICQ'd Katz 2 minutes after the Taliban were driven south.
And Commadore made PCs
"Old man yells at systemd"
He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.
That was a little too much information for me...
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Katz once again has discovered his own nose. The issue of Globalization is AGE OLD, but Katz seems to want us to believe he invented the idea, or at least that he is on the cutting edge. Globalization is something that was noticed by Nietszche for crying out loud and has been talked about for literaly over a hundred years. Come on Katz, if you're going to pretend to be origninal don't insult our intelligence by being so OBVIOUSLY in the debt of other, much more astute writers.
You could, of course, argue that this makes them like the Taliban... screening new ideas and technologies to make sure nothing they don't like gets in. I think the difference is that the Amish don't use violence as a means of enforcing the conventions of their community, nor do they use force as a means of coercing people to stay. They are free to join another community with different standards if they want.
That was poor wording on my part. I therefore apologize to all the Amish that are reading this
The Amish also don't begrudge the rest of the world for choosing to adopt high technology. I have no quarrel with that attitude at all. I mean that the Luddite-types were the freaks, not the Amish.
If you want to compare any american institution to the Taliban, I would point at certain Southern Baptist and Pentacostal churches, for their intolerance and shortsighted absolutist doctrines.
He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.
Good thing that was just made public knowledge...
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Why wasn't the original message text printed? Or at least linked to?
Is it out there somewhere?
If you look at IBM's PCM site, they list 2 Commodore 286s and 4 Commodore 486s, and it's perfectly possible to upgrade a Commodore to some bastard Pentium chips. Of course he'd be limited to VESA video cards, probably, but it's completely possible to get Windows 95 running on one of those... or at least Linux.
GPL Deconstructed
Hi guys.
We've all been putting in long hours but we've really come together as a group and I love that. Big thanks to Omar for putting up the poster that says "There is no I in team" as well as the one that says "Hang In There, Baby." That cat is hilarious. However, while we are fighting a jihad, we can't forget to take care of the cave. And frankly I have a few concerns.
First of all, while it's good to be concerned about cruise missiles, we should be even more concerned about the scorpions in our cave. Hey, you don't want to be stung and neither do I so we need to sweep the cave daily. I've posted a sign up sheet near the main cave opening.
Second, it's not often I make a video address but when I do, I'm trying to scare the most powerful country on earth, okay? That means that while we're taping, please do not ride your razor scooter in the background. Just while we're taping. Thanks.
Third point, and this is a touchy one. As you know, by edict, we're not supposed to shave our beards. But I need everyone to just think hygiene, especially after mealtime. We're all in this together.
Fourth: food. I bought a box of Cheeze-Its recently, clearly wrote "Osama" on the front, and put it on the top shelf. Today, my Cheeze-Its were gone. Consideration. That's all I'm saying.
Finally, we've heard that there may be American soldiers in disguise trying to infiltrate our ranks. I want to set up patrols to look for them. First patrol will be Omar, Mohammed, Abdul, Akbar, and Richard.
Remember it, write it down, take a picture, I dont give a fsck!
Authors exclude = JonKatz. You are outta here.
Mmmmmmm. Floor pie!
Now the big question is WHY is the cost of living so high in the "Blue" areas? Could it be that you (we) are paying for those sophisticated items, and all the overhead that goes with them? I'd say yes
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
Well, I'm sure you're right about poland, but I was only talking about china, you probably meant to respond to the poster I responded to.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
who had no net access!
no!
You betcha! But then he got net access
oh, well then. hoorah or something
and he liked linux
yay! that guy rocks
and he also visited some sex sites
uhm, isn't that kind of a weird thing to tell a reporter?
he liked open source stuff. especially us, and especially not microsoft
yay! that guy rocks
there's more than one way to do me.
What do you mean if?
Could someone point me to the URL for DIVX-over-SMTP???
It doesn't matter if this article is true or not but the point it reaches is a fact!
Are there any organizations that could raise up money to get computers and internet connections over there? People need to open and expand their minds there because you don't want anybody to fall back to being lied to by some fanatics!
You can't give everybody there a computer but you can definately open series of internet cafes in central locations. Is that really that expensive? The cost for that is a lot lower then the cost of fanatics running around destrying buildings and killing people!
I've got online with the help of an Organization that raised funds in that way (Soros foundation for an Open Society) while I was living in Romania and it helped me more then anything ever did.
The access to real and true information is the ultimate in personal improvement!
So whats the deal? Katz is now a dupe of the man as well? Remember right after the 9/11 there was an email from muslim man circulating around the interenet? Yep.. Propaganda.
So while Katz is airing out his complete crap about *nothing* in particular, nothing but a heart warming tale spun to augment the beard shaving, women baring their faces, and the possiblility that MTV is coming to Kabul soon. Lets not forget the reality of the situation:
The Northern Alliance is a brutal regime as well. People welcomed the Taleban after being ruled by these losers.
On the homefront, the administration is taking power in sweeping gestures whose effects will leave us reeling for possibly fewgenerations.
Like the fancy stories you see above. People from the less fortunate countries in the world like Australia and Europe think our media is full of shit, and lying to us point blank.
But never fear, America is the home of the free. The best country in the world dude. And all that shit.
Anyway, just a reminder to use that search engine of yours and get the facts, see some other perspectives, especially now since Mr. Katz has obviously become a tool as well. Yeah maybe he was a tool before, but at least he had the power in his court to say something to Slashdot readers. I guess no more.
Actually, you kind proove my point. Being:
How do you (or I) actually know?
I guess your answer would be 'I do'.
Case closed,
QED
"Old man yells at systemd"
This is obviously a fake. Afghanis watching Baywatch? A Linux-Loving geek from Kabul? Where the heck did you people come up with this stuff?
Stupidity.inc?
I guess they have a passion for shows that don't bear the slightest resemblance to anything they recognize.
If the US' ultimate objective is to get a world of Brittany Spears fans watching the same crappy shows and the same crappy movies endlessly consuming junk they don't need then living in the mountains doesn't look so bad after all. Guess the US won't be happy until Time-Warner-Microsoft-Viacom-Disney is happy.
Why have a spiritual life when you can obscess about what team of millionaires is going to win some pointless championship? Who needs a meaningful life when you have T&A on the TV. Just let pop culture bandage over that hole in your soul!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
"Mankind is my business, and yours too. Enslave someone *anywhere*, and I have the moral right to stop you. Morality does not stop at national borders. "
What you and I call "enslavement", Afghans call "respect". Anyway, you can't even stop me from "enslaving" my wife if I lived next door to you, as long as I don't break any laws. How can you expect to Americanize these people halfway across the globe? Moral right? What does that even mean on a global scale? You have no rights not given to you by your nation of residence. If you live in Afghanistan, and you are a woman, you live like an Afghan woman. If you live in America, you get to sit and watch.
"It's not like all of Afghanistan sat down and agreed, 'OK, women stay at home, don't get schooling, and have to wear burqas.'"
You mean that there was no election, right? So what? There has never been an election in Saudi Arabia either. Democracy is not for everyone. Just ask China. Notice we're not doing shit about how they treat their women. That's because we'd get our democratic asses handed to us if we tried. As soon as you become a Muslim you accept that women are to be treated differently. It's a vital part of their beliefs. Although not as extreme, all 1 billion of the world's Muslims behave this way. You want to go ask them to stop? Be my guest.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Or maybe the email was an Outlook Macro virus that deleted the story he actually really was working on... So he posted this instead
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
Also the line about trying to download movies is definitely suspicious. At 9600 baud perhaps? OK, give them the benefit of the doubt, 28.8k. Doesn't sound too believable to me.
Does anyone here not remember the days before broadband? Are you seriously telling me that no one here ever downloaded a movie or cd image over dial-up? I know I sure as hell did. It took days, but I still did it. Who's to say he's not doing the same?
"and I know enough cops to know that they won't expend the energy without a good reason. My government doesn't care about me, which in this case is good."
This is really a head in the sand attitude. Most people don't need the protection of the law now because wiretaps are so expensive. They involve lots of manual labor. But what happens when someone builds a voice recognition AI that makes it cheap enough to spy on EVERYBODY? Will you still feel safe that the government doesn't care enough about you to spy on you?
Why? Aren't you proud of your popular culture? That's what u.s. popular culture is all about. And yes, I agree with you, there is nothing about it that I would be proud of (if I was american). Please note that I said "popular" culture, so I don't include here your history or great authors you have/had. Pop culture is utter crap, and it is the greatest U.S. ambassador in the world.
cheers
This is slashdot, if it were real, it would have made more sense to discuss HOW he got Katz an email.
orWho calls their PC a commodore? Wouldn't you call it a PC? If it was an Amiga, wouldn't you call it an Amiga? And most of the other skeptics here are right...he wants an iPad? Downloading movies? Nobody argues it can't be done in Afghanistan, we're just arguing that it doesn't make sense this Junis guy did it.
So while I can ACCEPT that computers exist in Afghanistan, and that people use them to surf the net, I can't accept that the first thing this guy does is look up what popular shows are, and cares about getting an iPad. I'd think he'd be reading CNN.com or something, trying to find out where he can order clothes or food instead of a new computer - the price of which could feed a village there for a year.
We accept an awful lot, but you'd have to be blind to reality to accept this story.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
> not bombs or special forces but pop culture --
>it got it again this week.
America's culture is definitely a powerful force - but it was powerless in Afghanistan until we used a few _weaker_ weapons (B-52, etc.)
The kid obviously has the first goat powered linux box on a C64.
First he gets the goat going on the treadmill that powers the dynamo. Then he takes each ip packet and writes it down, mails it, Katz types them in, gets the replies, writes them down, then mails them back whereupon this guy types them into his machine and voila! High speed goat-herder porn!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Why would a starving people who are having their country bombed give a rat's ass about Temptation Island? I am guessing that this is some form of sick advertising attempt, where Katz gets paid by companies to plug their wares in his stories. Hey, I don't have to prove that, right?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
....But this litle nugget would be the one part I believe is the bit about independence day
I saw this movie in several rental facilities in Kuwait (subtitled, dubed and censored) complete with new boxes with Airbic script all over the outside
Plus I read that same bit in my local paper
yes its a hoax but I would imagine you could rent Will Smith's movie in at least one store in Afganistan
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
Fiction is fiction, and by itself, that's fine. What's really wrong with this picture is that Jon Katz is using ficiton to justify a point about how great popular culture is. If the story is false, then the point is moot.
Its probably better then watching mass death and destruction every day while hiding from the Taliban =)
Cmdr. Taco must be rolling in his grave to see such fake jibberish being posted on slashdot.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Things that generally do not seem plausable are usually not.
It is very well possible that this Junis character may have indeed sent out that E-mail. But given that nature of technology and its use in afganistan, particularly rural Afganistan, it becomes more and more improbable that such events actually took place.
Hence all the sceptisism.
Some posters seem to think that this is a troll, or hoax rather than a real hacker, because it full of the classic signs of Social Engineering, false familiarity, overtly complementary, appeals to empathy, it's almost a classic.
I'll tell you what this old cynic thinks, this is a PysOp's plant not a troll.
>..20meg divx..
who said he was downloading 20 meg divx movies??? Im sure it would be more along the lines of a
I can certainly remember downloading and viewing movies circa 1996 (the age of his computer)... i am sure that i wasnt the only one.
>..As for digging up all the forbidden stuff as soon while they could still see the dust from the trucks of the talibans, that is just plain unbelievable..
Also the Taliban are insignificant compared to Communist Romania. The Taliban have been in power for 5-6 years and most of the citizens can remember the time before the taliban and the freedoms they once had (not sure on how different it was but it WAS different). So they are pretty quick to get back to them im sure. Not to mention a computer nerd getting back to his computer. How many of you 'TurboNerds' would RUSH back to your computer after 5 days (let alone 5 years). I am sure after 5 years, eager is an understatment for this guys feelings towards getting back at his computer.
According to CIA factbook...
1 The number of ISPs in Afghanistan (as of 2000)
NA The number of Internet users
10 The number of TV stations
100,000 The total number of TVs
14.7% The infant mortality rate
31% Literacy rate
$800 GDP per capita in 2000 (estimate)
Telephone system: general assessment: very limited telephone and telegraph service
domestic: in 1997, telecommunications links were established between Mazar-e Sharif, Herat, Kandahar, Jalalabad, and Kabul through satellite and microwave systems
international: satellite earth stations - 1 Intelsat (Indian Ocean) linked only to Iran and 1 Intersputnik (Atlantic Ocean region); commercial satellite telephone center in Ghazni
Sorry. What does voice RECOGNITION have to do with spying or making spying more popular? You still have to have a reason to target the person.
You also have to have a human to double-check the intelligence because no self-respecting cop is going to trust a computer over his own instincts.
They have the technology to follow me around from a satellite if they want, but why would they? They've got bigger fish to fry.
OK, um, first of all, why would someone in the middle of a war zone want to watch Survivor? OK, great, I'm going to watch a show about people manipulating, betraying, and starving after having been through 5 years of Taliban rule.
Next this guy will claim to have gotten to a modern website with a browser written in 1996 on a Commodore (lets hope its at least a very late model Amiga).
Meanwhile, he's especially eager to get his hands on the Apple iPod, and has been drooling over the Apple website site since he got back online.Yep, there we are, going to the Apple website was one of the first things he did after being free of the Taliban. Right up there with getting all those movies he missed? Right. As an aside, this guy must have had some serious cash to have an Amiga system in that country.
Yet again, Mr. Katz has proven to be overzealous. Or very, very gullible.
hold on jon .....
....
i think there's something good on
i used to read books but
it could be the news
or some other abuse
or it could be reusable shows
There is no
Uhhh... you can browse perfectly well on a Commodore. Do you think the benefits of open-source development are restricted to Linux geeks? I have a friend who to this day still uses a Commodore Amiga 1000 as his primary machine. Why? Because he can, and because he likes it. Also he's a cheap bastard, but that's beside the point - he's a geek and he's having fun. Open-source developers have made browsers and mail clients available for AmigaDOS, as well as such niceties as ICQ clients. Throw in a modem and a long-distance call to an ISP in Pakistan, and poof! He's online, regardless of conditions in Afghanistan itself.
"So on one hand, honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food source. On the other hand it's bee backwash."
It seems for all this talk about the information age we still can't get in contact with people in a war zone like Afghanistan to get at least their opinion of the situation. I've been wanting to talk with the Afghani "man in the street(rubble?)since 911. In a situation like this how do you go about it? Was anybody able to get in touch with any Afghani Geeks?
Hey international kids! Wanna Troll for Americans? WELL, STEP RIGHT UP! This is the inflammatory thread for YOU!
Here, uh, I'll start it up...
You think you're perfect! Take that, George! You export crap culture! Annnd your women are fat! They make bad television like Ricky Lake!
Take that yankee swine! You son of a motherless goat!
Honestly, in the last two days it feels like
Uh.. download and play movies on a Commodore? No
Why did they have to pick such lousy examples of American pop culture? Stuff like Independence Day and Temptation Island isn't culture, it's cultural abuse for profit! It ashames me that this is the kind of stuff they are now yumming-up in Kabul, since it is the worst example of American culture IMHO.
The price we pay for a free society in an information age is that we gradually build up resistances against media manipulation and other trash like this. For example, those happy-go-lucky commercials of the 60's and 70's seem ludicrous and silly to us these days, just bouncing off our thick armor of skepticism. But 30 years ago those commercials apparently worked!
After some years of isolation, the people freed from Taliban rule may be hungry for all the trashy sensationalism that abounds in our society. But they may be lacking the ability to recognize the more subtle manipulation and propaganda prevalent in US media and pop culture.
Or, maybe not. What do I know, I haven't lived in Afghanistan myself. Maybe these folks know how bad and stupid these movies and shows are, and are just watching them because they embody the those qualities thought "evil" by the Taliban. Even so, I am genuinely embarrased by this.
Here is a Link for the ones like me that didn't know what PsyOps is.
Quote" Definition of Psychological Operations: 'Psychological Operations: Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also consolidation psychological operations; overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management. ' US Department of Defense
Help fight continental drift.
I mean, wow. There has been, what, ZERO American war casualties, and a very small amount of civilian destruction,
Actualy, two US servicemen died in a helicopter crash (in pakistan)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
With all due respect, if I recall my history, the Luddites were not anti-technology per se, but they were against some of the negative effects of technology on the workforce and therefor one people.
We may disagree with their assessment of the net effect of technology on the world, but we certainly can appreciate the fact that they were concerned about the negative impacts of technology (which we must admit, just as we trumpet the benefits). We can also agree I'm sure that not every technology has been implemented wisely nor with due forethought for its consequences.
Luddites get a bad wrap because people have abused the term Luddite (taking it out of its historical context) in order to have a neat buzzword which means "anti-technological without reason or sense". The truth is, the Luddites may not have been entirely correct in their evaluation and they may have not understood the remedy to the problems created by technology, but neither were they blindly anti-technology.
But that's just from my recollection. I could, in fact, be mistaken.
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
That may well be true (I'm pretty sure it is) but if you have the army on your side your own rifles seem superfluous in comparison.
When is Afghanistan's April Fools Day?
And, do you really think that the majority of the US armed services would actually fire upon there own families?
Most likely not. But they won't have to. NATO and UN "Peacekeeping" Forces will be more than happy to keep Swamp City (Washington DC) from "falling" to people who want nothing more than to keep the civil liberties guaranteed to them by the U.S. Constitution (and God, if you believe in Him).
Hitler and Stalin knew best: you can't take away a person's rights without first taking away their only means of defense.
I get the point. No one has any right to comment on anyone's actions anywhere else, because we are not superior to them.
OK.
Real moral depth to this position. Ultra-radical relativism?
By the way, you failed. You do sound like an asshole.
ELITISM: It's always lonely at the top. Uninvited company is rarely welcome.
Just promise to call me in the morning, OK?
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
Amen, brother. It's always good to know how "pop culture" is always the cause worth fighting for. What drivel.
If you need to become a police state to enforce the law, then the law is unjust.
...and...
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
A few cliches aren't grounds for justifying war alone, but while we take "inalienable rights" for granted, the idea is very new and strange to undeveloped countries.
What got us into this mess was that we used Afghanistan as a tool against the Soviet Union and then abandoned it once they were defeated. I think we have a moral responsibility to fix what we broke, at the very least.
To the operators of Slashdot:
/. community and the reputation of this site.
1.) Please remove this article at once. It is a filthy assortment of random lies and is an embarrassment to the
2.) Please strongly consider firing Jon Katz for his lack of journalistic integrity. Better yet, decide via a Slashdot poll.
3.) A major improvement to Slashcode would be a system by which readers can moderate the posting of articles on the main page.
That being said, I am all for the overthrow of the Taliban regime and the restoration of the rights and freedoms of the Afghan people.
This, however, should be the last straw. Please, pull John Katz off Slashdot. This story is ridiculous to the point of being scary. Katz has made an ass of himself - don't let him do the same thing to the site.
This post will probably be modded down so as to sanitize the discussion (Off topic or Flamebait is anything that constructively criticizes Slashdot, along with the rest of the troll content), and so will many other that are trying to make a valid point. But just remember one thing:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Well you could look at it from a different approach. If the Afghan women wanted freedom and equal rights that badly then they would have made more of a fuss about it. The people are responsible for the actions of their government. Repeat after me...
A civilization is responsible for the actions of their government.
If the people where feeling repressed then they would have done something about it by now. I'm sure there is a minority that is oppressed but if widescale oppression was rampart the the general populace would have done something about it long ago. Its not a popular view, but one I think runs true.
It happened at Kent State not that long ago... You're correct that people may have a difficult time shooting at their own kids or siblings, but it has already been demonstrated that in the heat of the moment and in the right situation, there would be little hesitation to shoot somebody else's kid or sibling.
For those that don't remember RFC 1149, it basically specifies a protocol for IP over avian carriers, CPIP (carrier pigeon internet protocol).
There are details of of the first implentation of this protocol (including pictures) here...
Funny Stuff.
What you and I call "enslavement", Afghans call "respect".
You can call a pile of bat guano filet mignon if you want to, but I'm still not going to eat it.
Anyway, you can't even stop me from "enslaving" my wife if I lived next door to you, as long as I don't break any laws.
Sure I can. I can choose to try and get her out of there, just like Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad did back when slavery was legal in this country. Did the law make slavery moral? Like hell.
How can you expect to Americanize these people halfway across the globe?
It seems to me like we've already started doing exactly that. "Americanize" is your term, not mine, but if you mean eliminating repression, yes, we already *have* done a lot of that.
You have no rights not given to you by your nation of residence.
Here we're getting into a terminology argument. As TJ wrote, we are "endowed with certain inalienable rights". As such, our government does not give us or take away rights, it can merely guarantee them or violate them. On the other hand, the Federalists gave an enumeration in the Bill of Rights. In that context, rights are specified in law. So talking about rights becomes a terminology discussion. I'd rather discuss moral/immoral.
Do you agree that slavery, regardless of where it occurs, is immoral? If not, I posit you're a nihilist, and thus anything goes anyway; arguing we don't have a right to do X posits that there is a universal morality, which contradicts your assertion of localized morality.
There has never been an election in Saudi Arabia either.
Yup, and it's a pretty repressive place with immoral leaders. I would be morally right to free its people from such repression. That doesn't mean I have to throw my life away futilely. Just because you can't do something to stop immoral behavior doesn't make it moral, just unstoppable.
Democracy is not for everyone.
Just because we can't stop all repression doesn't mean we can't (or shouldn't) stop some, or pressuring governments to reduce repression.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Ironically, he never saw combat. He picked the Coastal Artillery for his specialty, never guessing that a little thing called an aircraft carrier would make big cannons on the beach obsolete. 'Spent the war in the Staes, itching for an invasion. Afterwards, he worked with a group that organized civilian governments to replace the ones the Nazis had left in Europe in all the towns. Briefly, he was also basically the postmaster for all of Europe (until the civilian postal services got rebuilt). Good administrator, but he always felt that it was the lack of combat duty that doomed him to colonel instead of the general's stars he felt he deserved.
Unfortunately, he had more than enough rage to go around. He just vented it at family instead of the Enemy.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
While he was mailing me he was simultaneously watching some bootleg porn and downloading the new Britney Spears!
Just so you know, it wasn't the music he was downloading, but Spears' genome. Once he figures out to hook up his C64 to the genetic recombinator he hid in the barn... well, let's just say he won't be needing to download so much porn.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
But many of you seem to be missing a point. Taliban did not ban internet or any other tech toys at first, they did this banning thingies after they controlled much of the afganistan and only gradually after that. IIRC internet was one of the last things on the ban list (presumably it was not very accessible anyway)
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
This article is just ludicrous! It's damn funny. What'll probably happen is that the story will be removed from the front page, like some of /.s other major fuckups. (like when Michel ripped on a distributed project to help cure cancer, because it was being run by a corporation (Intel), without even bothering to contact the people who actually wrote the software.)
I started out liking Katz (read him on hotwired, that's actually how I found slashdot), but he seems to just get stupider and stupider.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Somebody out there must be busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest to be making up a hoax like this.
This is a big hoax. Bigger even than the hoax about the MIT operating system Cesium that's supposed to contain year 3,000 technology that nobody on the same floor of that building ever heard of.
On the other hand, can you give me his email address? I'd like to know how to watch movies on my Commodore.
People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing,
American culture is all of those things.
The tidal wave of American culture is frightening and Borg like.
As long as it is seen this way, reactionary forces will gain support from the many who watch with despair as traditional culture and values developed over many centuries are replaced within a generation with what comes over satellite television from America.
It's too bad we're incapable of giving the Afghans freedom, democracy and human rights without simultaneously injecting a huge dose of consumerism laced with appeals to lust and violence.
Oh well, I suppose I can't fault the rest of the world for falling into the same traps that my fellow Americans have for decades. Don't like it? Don't watch it.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
They have the technology to follow me around from a satellite if they want, but why would they? They've got bigger fish to fry.
... DOH!
That's the point, with new technology they can fry all the fish. Traffic analysis, vacuum cleaner information gathering. Collect them all, and let the database sort them out.
Here's the kind of thing that could happen: Intellegence could find out that I've gotten copies made at BestCopy in Toronto (credit card) which was connected with Bin Laden, Bonk! My security risk karma gets a +1. So more automatic tests get run. Maybe I made a phone call to the next-door neighbour of a gun-runner, Bonk! I've mentioned gun-powder on Usenet, Bonk! I associate with the notorious Keith Henson, charged with threatening $cientology with weapons of mass-distruction, Bonk! And so it goes... Wider and wider searches that find possible and maybe connections.
The trouble with systems that collect everything is that there will be a temptation to automatically create profiles, and if it's not done right, some innocent person's security risk karma could max out -- and we're weakening the rules on innocent until proven guilty.
Sounds it sounds paranoid, but security agencies are paranoid by nature, and have to look at possibles and maybes.
If you want an excellent look at what a paranoid "knows everything" system would be like, the best I've read is Sam Hall by Poul Anderson. Hard to find short story, but well worth the search!
Luckly I paid cash at BestCopy so they'll never know
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
They will tolerate USA interference for a short while to drive out the greater evil. Stay too long, and they'll be shooting at US soldiers too.
They intensely hate the foreign components of the Taliban. Arabs and Pakistani Taliban who couldn't escape were summarily executed. Only Afgan Taliban were are being imprisoned.
It should be real easy. You all just send me $100 each, and I will make sure he gets it, then you all get 10 of your friends to send a $100 to you and........
I am sure Junis will be posting hear soon, since he "is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot," and I am sure he will rally to Jon's defense and prove that this isn't a hoax.
Jeez Jon, get that fish hook outa yo' mouth.
... and "Indenpendence Day". What a crappy movie. :-/
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
That maybe the kid sent the email from a friend's PC (or a 'community' PC of sorts), and that the fact that he kept his Commodore hidden is only tangential to the story? As far as Net access is concerned, I've read stories of Taliban members who have (had?) satellite TV, CD players, you name it. Look at the New Republic from a week or two ago, there's a story that mentions a Talib with loads of contraband at home.
Hey I hide my Commodore from my wife, so I can relate!
8 bit computing - It may be 2007 out there, but it's 1983 in here!!
Instead of rephrasing the content, why not post the original email, including the header? It will be interesting to see how the email is actually routed.
It's a lot easier to give up freedoms than achieve them, and once Big Brother's done with the terrorists, they'll be looking for a new enemy. And THEY define what a criminal is! Like a puff of sensi after a hard week's work? Sure you don't have any stray MP3's around that you didn't pay for? Maybe installed one too many copies of Windblows someplace without buying one CD per machine?
Be careful when you say "I'm not a criminal" or "My government doesn't care about me."
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
-- Pastor Martin Niemöller
(I could have sworn I wrote a response to this, but it appears to have vanished, or perhaps I forgot to hit submit while at home).
I suppose it wasn't actually South Florida, but Central. I was going down the West Coast from Tampa to the Everglades and heard virtually nothing but preachers.
In another Florida trip, I inhabited Palm Beach Gardens, went to Miami every weekend, and really loved it. I have to admit that I really loved the high-energy atmosphere in Miami, especially when tempered by the occasional Everglades boat trip. A cool place to live indeed.
D
bin laden VS. bill gates : the political cartoon
just thought it was a good idea. it sorta combines certain social issues in the US.
who really controls our country? the most powerful person in the US may not be George Bush... it is very likely Bill Gates. a cartoon such as this would bring the Microsoft DoJ case into a different light and possibly be a good example of what the Taliban hated about the US.
just a thought.
-- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
I agree that there is an objective morality (God). I do not, however believe that a nation of people which has totally eliminated any objectivity, morality, or mention of either in popular culture and government has any right to tell an entire race how to treat its women. You mention Federalists, Bills of Rights, etc, etc, apparently unaware that all of those concepts are govermental, not moral. Make the argument that governments have any moral responsibility, and
Yup, and it's a pretty repressive place with immoral leaders.
Says you! If the Saudi people are happy that way, leave them be. The last time they were modernized, they formed a radical Muslim group called the Taliban, and that fucking sucked.
We are not superheroes ridding the world from anything we find distasteful. We are just another powerful country. When the Soviets tried to do what you suggest (ridding the world of injustice), we pointed nukes at them. Our capitalist society was just as offensive to them as the Afghani way of life is to us.
Just because we can't stop all repression doesn't mean we can't (or shouldn't) stop some, or pressuring governments to reduce repression.
Everyone does not have to think and live like we do. Democracy in this form hasn't really been around long enough to establish it as the de facto standard for governing everyone. In fact, fewer people live under democracy than don't. Pressuring governments pisses them off, although you already know that. The Dutch don't pressure us to legalize drugs, do they? France doesn't ask us to put titties on billboards. Anyway, dead horse.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Good point there, and thanks. Apparently my post was both Flamebait and Overrated, which when scored at 1 is hard to believe.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
I get the point. No one has any right to comment on anyone's actions anywhere else, because we are not superior to them.
Actually, I guess you didn't get the point. You can comment all you want, because this is America, Land of the Free and all that. What you can't do is go over there, and make them act a certain way, like they're our little children. You do not have to agree with their belief system, but if you don't respect it, well, I guess nothing really. But you should. It's the way of life of almost a billion people.
Also, calling someone an asshole online is easy and small.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Some British dude does the following: freebsd-box$ telnet smtp.wackybritisp.net Connecting to smtp.wackybritisp.net 220 smtp.wackybritisp.net ESMTP MAIL FROM:<junis@afghanistan.af> 250 OK RCPT TO:<katz@morons.slashdot.org> 250 OK DATA 354 go ahead Hello Mr. Jon Katz. I am from Afghanistan, and you and your country have just liberated me. I am very in much liking your news stories. I love your journalistic style and am predicting that it will be the most popular in my country. I am wondering if you are able to send me apple ipod. Please send it to London, for my mail is being routed from London, to Islamabad, to Afghanistan. You are god of open source ^C freebsd-box$ lynx http://www.slashdot.org (breaks out into laughter)
It's ridiculous that Katz should take this at face value, or that /. editors would pass this on without comment. The minor effort required to check even one of the outlandish "facts" in this piece would have been worth some effort.
This is really sad. I've been after Katz to look at his journalistic basics since the day he decided that ABC TV was "wrong" when they used a hidden camera, wielded by a paid undercover operative, to show Red Lion supermarkets selling rotten meat.
He claimed that it was "unethical" to get a job at Red Lion with a falsified job app, even if you already knew potentially lethal poison was being sold to people.
At the time he was celebrating a decision (later overturned) that would have hog-tied such investigative practices.
He doesn't understand the basic debt that a journalist owes his readers, and probably never will. One can only hopes that he takes this embarassment as a lesson.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
I wouldn't rely on information from the CIA World Factbook too much. The problem is mainly that it relies heavily on government sources. You can see this when you compare, for example, the literacy ratings for various countries. Most ex-Soviet countries are listed with 99 or near 99 percent, for example, which is a relic from Soviet times where they claimed the literacy rate to be 100%; they do have excellent literacy, but it's not quite that excellent. Now what sources did they have for Afghanistan? Do they list them anywhere? Are they credible?
Another problem is that some figures are pretty difficult to estimate. Consider "Internet users", for example. For Uzbekistan, for example, it lists 42 ISPs and 7500 Internet users. How on earth did they get that number? What constitutes an "Internet user"? How do they count Internet cafés which are really widespread in the cities of poorer countries, for example? Is an Internet café a single Internet user, or do they count the 100 or 200 regular café users individually? In the first case, the figure means nothing at all, in the second, it's plain wrong from personal experience.
Also, you never know precisely when they collected their data, which, in telecommunications or computing, does make quite a bit of a difference.
In general, be as careful with the CIA factbook as with any other source. In spite of the label, it does not only contain accurate facts, and the label "CIA" does not necessarily imply correctness of information.
There is absolutely no reason to panic.
If not, I posit you're a nihilist, and thus anything goes anyway; arguing we don't have a right to do X posits that there is a universal morality, which contradicts your assertion of localized morality.
Ah hah! I just got this. You're a smart guy. Smart, and wrong. Here's the deal: belief in an objective Right does not necessarily translate into belief in America being the clearinghouse for everything that's OK. In fact, most of us theists believe that what makes morality possible is the free will that allows us to choose Right over Wrong. At the least, you have to agree that free will makes morality more powerful. So: I do believe in objective right. I do not, however believe that America's version is the one the world should live by.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Commodore PCs ran as high as 486-66s.
Install a bastard Pentium Overdrive, and you have a 100 to 120MHz machine, *maybe*, possibly.
Bump up the ram to 32mb... and you can install Windows95. You can trivially install Linux.
You can play mp3s, if barely, on a 486. You can play mpeg1 movies on a Pentium, but it would drop frames and take a bit of space. On the other hand, if they have low res low quality version, maybe it's not a big deal anyway.
GPL Deconstructed
the same theory worked quite nicely against the brittish ;)
"It's better to be a pirate then join the Navy"
The story does have some things correct (ie. about video rentals, music etc.), but does seem to leave some room for wondering about the energy source used for the computer, and the type of computer, and the connection speed to just go and download movies and druel over Apples Web site, and the frequency of e-mails received from the Afghan geek to the Slashdot editor. I think the way everyone on the board could know is if the Afghan geek posted a message on one of his favorite sites (Slashdot), and then we could trace the domain by looking at e-mail information back to Afghanistan. Of course, this isn't to say that this couldn't be replicated, but not without some research.
It may not be any business of yours, but I'm making it my business. You can try to stop me, but you won't do so with words.
If your only issue is whether the people in these places want change, that's an easy question to answer: they do, go visit one of these countries sometime and ask.
If you were truly correct that the people in these societies liked the conditions they lived under, it would be a different matter. The fact is, though, most of them don't; however, brutal police states, corrupt governments, and lack of resources stops most of them from doing anything about it.
I've travelled and lived in Africa, and travelled in the Middle East, and what you often see is similar to what used to happen in the Soviet Union: people do the things people do anyway, if they can get away with it, but they do it underground and at serious risk to their lives and freedom. You may not care about this, but having lived in environments like this, I do.
And, despite your belief that "putting our nose in somebody else's business" got us into this, one can make a credible argument for the opposite being true: the U.S. has remained too hands-off in its foreign policy, only getting involved when it has a clear, direct strategic interest in a particular situation. The reasons for this foreign policy date back to World War II and Vietnam. However, this may not be in the the US's own interest. It means that from the point of view of people in other countries, US involvement is capricious and unpredictable, leading to resentment when the US does or doesn't get involved in a situation where others think it should or shouldn't.
A policy based more clearly on things like human rights interest could actually go a long way towards improving America's reputation in the rest of the world, and would not necessarily cost significantly more money, since America could certainly get international backing and cooperation for such a policy.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. We're not being liquidated in gas chambers over here, you know.
Here's my philosophy.
When I become a criminal (when they define my behavior as criminal or I commit a criminal act), then I will take appropriate measures to defend myself from persecution if wrongfully accused, or I'll accept responsibility if I get caught fair and square. I only trust myself to defend myself, and I'm not just talking about legal representation. If I can't defend myself, I've only got myself to blame and haven't been let down by anyone else's incompetence.
I remember around the time the Taliban was knockign down statues of Buddha, news came out that they "banned the Internet", and MSNBC (or some other major news outlet) thought this was amusing because no Internet connections exist anywhere exist, unless you're very close to borders with other countries. Come on, Katz. "Gamers and coders hiding PCs"? Yeah, right.
... till you think about it for a bit, and then realize it's completely dumb. Who's his ISP? Afghanistan On Line ?How did he know katz current email address? How did he know about /. ? What a comlete crock of absurdity...
It's not as simple as that. Do you have the right to e.g. punish someone that thinks he/she is doing the right thing, no matter what organisation, religion or culture that person belongs to?
You don't have the right to force someone to do (or don't do) something unless that other person "agrees" (has the same cultural, religious or ethnic backround, or lives in the same country and abides to the same laws).
I think things like for example the U.N. declaration of the human rights are good things, but some other things don't simply have global validity. You take them for granted, like double glased windows, central heating, universities without fees, and taking your shoes off when going indoors (I'm a Swede), but everyone else does not. You can't enforce things like that, not even the U.N. declaration of human rights, on anyone.
Enforcing a way of life upon someone is wrong. It is a violation of the integrity of the other person. It is denying everything that the other person is.
I'm not saying it's wrong to stop people hurting each other. I'm saying it's way wrong to call it your moral right to do so, because morality is not global.
And don't forget: The conflict in Aghanistan exists because of American foreign policy, because of economics, because of oil. Prove me wrong.
5000 people is a small prise to pay to ensure that ones interests in the middle east are not jeopardised. Don't come talking about moral, because moral is nothing.
It's 11pm, do you know what your deamons are up to?
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing some evidence, but I do think that in general, the Katz series of articles tend to be designed more towards provoking debate and seeding ideas than toward investigative reporting. It's a piece about the power of technology, not a master's thesis on broadband in Kabul with footnotes. I may be too trusting, but I don't think that Jon presents an entirely implausable scenario. How could this be proven if it were in fact true? Would email message headers do it? I doubt it.
;).
The way I see it, sufficient proof would be full email headers, substantiating email from each member of the forwarding chain, photos of the much ballyhoo'd Commodore (preferably playing a downloaded copy of The Phantom Edit), and ISP records proving that movies could be (and had been) downloaded on the outskirts of Kabul. Or alternatively, I guess a video interview with the dude in Afganistan might suffice, though it's not like Jon can just hop on a flight to Kabul (unless he enlists in the special forces
Frankly, that's a pretty heavy burden of evidence to place on any journalist and especially here on Slash-(We'll post obvious product advertising literature sent from company email addresses)-dot. I'd be curious what sort of evidentiary standard reporters are generally held to at upstanding newspapers and magazines.
Screw on-topic! Let's start a thread...
What is reasonably required to back up a journalist's story? And especially here on Slashdot (Katz, Taco, rest-of-crew feel free to chime in [unlikely]... or mod down [more likely])
- StaticLimit
It's things like this - "No computers on pain of death" that make the US seem slightly better. It's also things like this that make the Taliban even worse.
I won't comment on the nature of the email itself, which is obviously a hoax (and a bad one at that), but I am in contact with a friend who's been in Peshawar for a little over six months now, so I thought I could shed some light on some of the questions that the thread generated. She's been sending me regular reports (about once a month) about her life there, and of course, the topic has greatly changed since 9/11.
She was evacuated to Pakistan for a few weeks and she's now back in Peshawar, where she works for an ONG.
The Internet exists in Afghanistan, and the Talibans could never eradicate it completely. There are a limited number of Internet cafes in University Town (very deserted right now but this will change when Torkham opens again). The sessions are very cheap (about 20 roupies) and the bandwidth is of course very limited, but they seem to offer the minimal needed to send emails.
A lot of the Internet cafes have booths and are mostly used for porn, as are some of the few movie theaters left open. In those, the beginning of the movie is usually Taliban-related and it switches after a few minutes to the juicy stuff.
That's it for now, I can elaborate if there's interest.
If your only issue is whether the people in these places want change, that's an easy question to answer: they do, go visit one of these countries sometime and ask.
No! I won't go around taking surveys on people's happiness worldwide! This is getting ridiculous. The Taliban is gone. People have shaved their beards and dug up their TVs. Great. You'll notice that women still cover themselves head-to-foot, and don't leave the house alone. This is true of many mid-east countries, and several Asian ones as well. We cannot go around "correcting" other people's religious beliefs! My point was not wether or not they would rather live that way. Most Catholics would rather do a lot of fun stuff. That doesn't mean such practices fit within their moral standards, or those of their peers.
the U.S. has remained too hands-off in its foreign policy, only getting involved when it has a clear, direct strategic interest in a particular situation.
Yeah, no shit. My mom had a saying: "choose your battles". This is nothing new in U.S. foriegn policy, just like it's nothing new in parenting or business. Many would argue that this attitude is what's let us become as powerful as we are today. No one sees this as capricious. Everyone knows we bitch about civil rights, and fight over oil. The reason countries even expect our help is because of our hands-on policies of the past. Why doesn't anyone get upset at Denmark for staying out of their business? Because they always do! They're Denmark!
A policy based more clearly on things like human rights interest could actually go a long way towards improving America's reputation in the rest of the world,[...]
You mean the tiny portion of the world that hasn't already moved here. Everyone wants to be American. Our reputation is bad because we insist on meddling in other people's religious belief systems, when we don't even have one. That irony has not been lost on the Eastern world.
[...]since America could certainly get international backing and cooperation for such a policy.
Not in your wildest dreams. The last time we got international backing for anything (before 9/11) was when the Axis Powers were kicking ass worldwide. Russia never even declared war on Japan until both bombs had decimated the island. 3 years after Pearl Harbor. The problem is that every country has different ideas on what makes human rights. Unless you'd like to usher in an Orwellian World Government, we need to start leaving this stuff alone.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
http://msnbc.com/news/660540.asp
You have my vote:)
Mod this parent up as insightful
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Jeez, this guy was downloading MP3's and movies with his broadband connection in Kabul a few years ago? I only got my broadband a few months ago. What a gyp!
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
So the `story' is `metaphoric' or `symbolic', is it? No, it's not. It's bullshit. It's been professionally prepared to influence your opinions, feelings and reactions, and its intended effect is to pacify you while you're being repressed in your own country, it is only peripherally about Afghanistan.
Firstly, I would just like to congratulate the author: this story is the most transparent example of propaganda I've been privileged to see.
Something over a million people are at risk of starvation in Afghanistan because of the US' air invasion but little Timmy has never had it so good because of the magic of western technology and baywatch?
The intent of whoever writes propaganda is to appeal to our prejudices (technology good, food is something you get out of the fridge.) In this case, we are distracted from any issues that we might conceivably do something about. Its overt project here is to pacify the readers.
In that first aim, it has largely failed: good propaganda hooks straight into deeply held beliefs and anxieties, and bypasses the critical faculties, it seeks a direct emotional effect, which in this case (due to the overdeveloped critical faculties of computer weenies) it has not directly achieved.
Look at the subtext, though, look at what's not being said directly, think of it as a fable, or a just-so story: ``Technology thrives even through the most repressive regime. Little Timmy kept the spirit of innovation and connectedness alive even through 5 years of political and social repression.''
Consider, for a moment, that you geeks in the US, and probably we geeks on the periphery, are witnessing exactly the kind of erosion of civil liberties that the Taliban would approve of, and in the same cause (godless heathens at the gates, pull the wagons in a circle, accept arbitrary rule to preserve your culture.)
Consider the buried message in this piece of propaganda: If little Timmy could survive the Taliban by burying his C64 in chickenshit, then surely *I* can survive the radical restrictions of a US at `war', the GW Putsch, the suppression of free speech, by just keeping my head down - burying my processing power under the warm pile of steaming chickenshit which is JKatz's story.
Hell, I can even download porn and videos under martial law. Good deal! Where do I sign?
"There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." Ed Howdershelt
of Katz's rich fantasy life. However... when you're dreaming these gems up for us Katz, try to make it a little believable.
ergo... the Taliban was barely out of town when the dude and his friends were out in the chicken house digging up the floorboards...
Spare me. Most of the goddam HOUSES in Afghanistan don't have boards on the floor for chrissake.
Check out CNN agsin Katz... DESERT! ROCK! NO TREES! Sheesh! Geeks!
It turns out that the "plans" for nuclear (read 'Nukular' in Bushspeek) weapons they discovered in Taliban hideouts may have been based on a scientific parody magazine (and subsequently distributed via the internet):
y 2. php
."
.The chain reaction then promptly produces
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0147/ridgewa
WASHINGTON, D.C.-Suddenly, Al Qaeda doesn't look so smart. Just
yesterday, a Times of London reporter found a cache of plans, left in
a Kabul home as the Taliban retreated, that included notes for making
a thermonuclear device. The papers sent a chill through the Western
world, since they appeared to indicate sophisticated designs for an
atom bomb.
Now the online Daily Rotten says at least part of those documents
photographed by the Times are taken verbatim from a "semi-famous"
pseudo-document that has been circulating on the Internet for years.
It's a reprint of a scientific parody called "How to Build an Atom
Bomb," from the geek-humor newsletter Annals of Improbable Research,
originally known as the Journal of Irreproducible Results.
In his report for the BBC, reporter Anthony Loyd held some of the
papers up for the camera, giving a glimpse of documents the Daily
Rotten now compares to the 1979 parody.
Even the language Loyd uses to paraphrase the abandoned material
sounds like that of the satirical document.
Describing the scene in a Times article, Loyd wrote: "The vernacular
quickly spun out of my comprehension but there were phrases through
the mass of chemical symbols and physics jargon that anyone could
understand, including notes on how the detonation of TNT compresses
plutonium into a critical mass producing a nuclear chain reaction and
eventually a thermo-nuclear reaction . . .
The parody document reads: "The device basically works when the
detonated TNT compresses the Plutonium into a critical mass. The
critical mass then produces a nuclear chain reaction similar to the
domino chain reaction . . .
a big thermonuclear reaction. And there you have it, a 10 megaton
explosion!"
To find these faux atomic-bomb plans, do a Web search for "The device
basically works" or "Let's Build an Atomic Bomb!" instructs the Daily
Rotten. "It gives us pause and joy to know the Taliban are wasting
their time downloading what amounts to joke mail and spending time
trying to discern the facts therein."
Homeland security secretary Tom Ridge acknowledged the plans had been
found, but downplayed their importance. With this Daily Rotten report,
the public may get a glimpse of why.
Reached at the Pentagon spokesperson Major Tim Blair said, "I can't
comment on that. You can find all kinds of reports, and you have to
look at which ones are credible. We issue briefings and press
releases, but we don't talk about anything dealing with intelligence.
I'm not throwing stones, but the media should check the credibility of
their sources. You all have to do your job."
The foreign editor who handled the story for the Times was not
immediately available for comment.
--
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Well, I think there's a few more inconsistencies we might not have realized in this story:
As a side note, I feel sorry for anyone using any of the search engines that they remember from 1996.
It all goes downhill from first post
This article is bizarre. Unfortunately, some people may actually believe it. I don't believe it myself.
CNN.com has been posting stories about how the US Government wants to influence media companies to send these types of messages to us. I wonder if that is what is happening here. This is just so weird.
(news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate).
I hope this is not a comment in favor of regulation of Cripto but it sure sounds like one.
Anyways my opinion on this "report" is that is totally FUD.
http://securityportal.com.ar
Do you realize that you're contradicting yourself? You're telling other people that it's wrong to tell other people what to do. Funny funny!
According to your own statement, as a Swede you have no right to tell Americans not to interfere in Afghani relations.
Many other arguments could be made againt your position, but it's disproved itself already, so I'll spare you the details.
That's an overstatement, but it's kind of my point. The reason people want to move to America is because it offers a relatively high degree of religious, economic, and political freedom. But America props up governments which don't allow this, to suit its oil interests (e.g. Saudi Arabia), and fosters internal rebellion when it harms their enemies (Afghanistan and the Soviet Union), but it doesn't necessarily actually help to improve the situation in the countries it ostensibly "helps". In more recent years, since the collapse of the Soviet Union, policy has improved, but it still ultimately derives from a time when the US's policy goals were very different. It needs revamping, and time and again it has been demonstrated that isolationism and non-involvement are not the answer.
Actually, I think the direction in which U.S. policy is now developing is positive - some of the things I'm talking about are being more actively considered, such as the establishment of a stable government in Afghanistan. This is based on experience with mistakes in the past.
It depends how you define it. For example, the US had United Nations support for the actions against Iraq after the invasion of Kuwait, and NATO support (at least) for Kosovo. Perhaps you're suggesting that this support was not sufficiently great, financially or in terms of military resources provided. However, if the U.S. had a clearer policy that went beyond its own direct interests, it would more easily be able to obtain real support from other countries.
Note that going beyond the "direct interests" of the U.S. doesn't necessarily imply being purely humanitarian or altruistic. Rather, it recognizes that these issues are complex and intertwining, and can have very long-term implications. It may be unwise to take too narrow a view based only on the most obvious short-term payoff or lack thereof.
...must be the reason people exclude Jon Katz in their viewing preferences. What a bunch of shit.
I'm off to tick that little box myself now. I bet its getting a lot of hits today.
... this is a ridiculous concoction. Digging up a computer after it's been buried 4-5 years? Um, even leaving a computer in a hot trunk all weekend can cause it to fry ... 4-5 years of climate changes, dirt, moisture ???? Watching video on a Commodore computer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but an "ancient" Commodore is not even as powerful as a gameboy or an old HP scientific calculator. And internet access - from a string tied between two empty bean tin cans?
Katz, either you are (A) purposely perpetrating a propaganda fraud or (B) so fucking clueless that you would buy into a hoax email and trot it out as a feature story or (C) got your dates confused and thought it was April 1 today but that would be a sick joke ...
That does it ... as soon as I post this, I'm going to set my /. preferences to filter out all "stories" by Katz. If I want Cinderella tales or bedtime stories, I'll go see the new Harry Potter movie ...
AZspot
Slavery was wrong in America, therefore it was abolished.
...by the North imposing its will on the South via invasion, which claimed to be a distinct country (succession and all that.) It had sod all to do with passing laws, it took government troops armed with guns and ~600,000 deaths. One fairly cohesive group (the North) imposed its will on another (the South). And it was the right thing to do.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I think Marley's Ghost said it best:
Besides, it's not as simple as know-nothings such as yourself would have it. Try looking into conditions for women in Afghanistan before the Taliban arrived before issuing pronouncements on what they'd choose for themselves given the chance.And the brethren went away edified.
It just said he was 'trying to download movies'
I can try all day to drive 100mph in my Daihatzu handivan, but it doesn't mean I can.
The SBS World Guide is pretty good.
It's a service of the Australian SBS broadcasting network, a multi-ethnic/cultural/language & world news network. Its owned by the Australian govt & is a sister network to the ABC, Australia's equilivent to the BBC.
Don't bother replying to my question. I only now noticed the article was written by Jon Katz.
Did anyone notice that he mentions that he received a "forwarded" email?
1. Only the extremist would march. The real middle ground gun owner would lay low until the fighting began. Only a fool would hope for open conflict.
2. The US government, subverted by perverts, would only turn on masses of it's own people if it had plans to empty the power vacuum. They would not go unresisted. ex Waco, Ruby Ridge,
3. I hardly call the NRA disorganized.
I could say more, but this borders on flaimbait.
Someone hates these cans.
I'd be willing to bet that the U.S. forces in Kabul have seriously increased the amount of Internet Accessibility in the general area - I KNOW for a FACT, that there had been relatively widespread internet access in *.AF in the time of the gulf war, as I had several contacts in that area, during that point in time.
It's likely that the U.S. forces have restored access to the area in a relatively short period of time - even the military boys like the Internet.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Mr. Katz,
I rarely post to Slashdot, but after reading your latest piece, I felt the necessity to send this letter. This is by far the most insightful study of the Afghan conflict that I have read. The first real human interest story to emerge from the country of Afghanistan since the conflict.
In reading your previous articles, I thought your politics were too liberal for me. I did not understand how anyone could condone the action of murderers of children (i.e. Columbine). Now, I see that you are a true patriot. You understand the struggle, and how America truly is trying to bring freedom to the opressed of the world.
Young Junis should have the right to experience the same freedoms that are available to American kids. If he wants to hack on his Commodore, he should be able to provided that he does not break the law.
I truly hope that you use your gifts as a writer and journalist to bring us more such pieces. Please ferret out of your network more such interesting stories. I would be interested in seeing how the Afghan quality of life has improved since we liberated them from such an oppressive ruling faction.
I'd like to know how our superior value system has broken the red circle in socialist countries like China and their European counterparts like Finland and Sweden.
Its common that people who hate our love of liberty will attack you. You must be strong. The red army cannot withstand such objective evidence such as a testimonial on the superiority of our culture.
Most journalists ignore this concept. You rarely find coverage of these issues except on talk radio. Thank you for bringing sanity to the internet.
Well... the subject line says it all.
/. setup.
I am always more than willing to listen to opposing opinions (even if there are really far off mine).
But this time Katz has gone a tad bit too far. I'll exclude his stories in my
Using the current dramatic situation for cheap careering moves is just too far off my moralic imprint...
+++ath0
One of the hallmarks of International Development is the impact that western "aid" has on "undeveloped" communities. The effect of introducing new crops, for example, might mean people spend less time farming, thus needing other work to do, etc. The impact can be huge.
However, i digress. You were talking about imposing the UN decleration of human rights on Afghanistan (citing cultural examples of Amish and Orthodox Jews). That said, here is the difference: an Amish or Orthodox Jewish Woman in the US or Canada or Sweden (or Israel or any democratic free country) can choose wether or not to observe their religion. IE, the state does not force anything upon them, they have a choice of weather to dress modestly, pray seperately from men, etc. In afghanistan, the women had no such choice. If a woman there sees fit to wear a burqa and not learn and stay in the house, thats her choice. However, any woman who does not want to should be able to choose not to. THATS THE UN DECLARATION. We aren't forcing anything but the freedom to choose on opposed people.
-Michael Roy
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
Could you Tell that to:
Jello Biafra, who got charged for selling "Adult" material in his cd booklets? The adult material in this case was a Giger Poster???? They broke into his house with 9 cops just to get a poster??
Please also ask several innocent black freedom of right speakers currently in jail or even deathrow if they think that the justice system is fair.....
Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Living in the netherlands, where guns are not permitted, i have yet to see a soldier point his gun at me....We do however have a far lower death count in comparison to the USA
Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
This weekend, a movie theater and video store opened up again in Kabul (renting Independence Day)
;-)
Independence Day! Rhaaaa! Please Taliban, come back
The USA will be a lot more Believable if they first started to follow the human right movement themselves instead of telling others to, while not doing so themselves. Don't Believe me, check amnesty on the USA....
Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
You do. Excellent job =) A dumb asshole at that.
Click here, and then click here to find out how much Afghani women like life under the Taliban.
And don't speak about the Taliban as if they are a legitimate government the people of Afghanistan voted into power. They aren't. They're more like rapists or vultures picking over a corpse the Soviets left behind.
Remember it works because we all want to believe the best. I think it's rather encouraging in America that while we've been attacked, we still search for the best in human nature.
FOr all those who are whinging about the possibility of a hoax, and of Katz' integrity, let us not forget the very first sentence of this article :
"An open information society is inevitable."
A plain and simple statement, predicting the future. This clearly marks Katz' bias from the word go, I really would like to see journalism I read showing integrity and objectivity, not sensationalism and techno-freedom-evangelism.
Slashdot Human Resources staffers take note.
Ever seen a frog dropped into boiling water? He jumps right out! Now drop him in cold water and turn on th eheat - he'll happily sit there till he's par boiled and DEAD. The frog is yu with your head in the sand.
Do you even have any idea what behaviour is considered illegal? You may think you do but you may be VERY surprised one day. In states like Virginia they're passing laws that give strength to those damned shrinkwrap licenses. Since you're not a criminal and don't intend ever to be one I'm sure you read those right? How about the DMCA - have you ever READ that piece of legislation? Did you know it contains a provision specifically to protect the design of boat hulls? Yup, "Huh?!" is exactly what I said when this was pointed out to me. The DMCA session at DEFCON was most interesting, a more F*CKED law I've never seen - it contradicts itself in several places and even redefines "fair use".
How about the new "Anti-Terrorism" bills that have been passed recently. Any ideas what they have to say? Sure you've never broken any of the laws you don't know about? How come John Ashcroft has ignored SIX letters by a congressional subcomitee inquiring about these "new powers" to testify? We've had more than one THOUSAND people locked up since 9/11 who haven't been charged - seems you might not actually HAVE to break a law to be held. But hey, you'll never raise suspicion right? No chance you might not piss off someone at random who might be able to give you attention you don't deserve right? I could even be as simple as cutting off the wrong person in traffic if the abuse gets too bad.
Tell you what, you're obviously a good responsible citizen who votes and as a Slashdot reader you probably don't much like the DMCA. Why don't you go find out if your representative voted for that law so you'll know what to do come next election. What's that? It was passed on a voice vote* and you can't find out who voted for it? Gee, I guess things aren't quite as bright and cheery in your world as you thought huh?
*FWIW, I've been told that the DMCA was and was NOT voice voted depending upon who I've spoken to about it - it could be FUD. I have no doubt though that getting a rep to explain clearly their position on this piece of garbage to a constituant would be difficult. Som of the tacked on provisions to that law are a joke! The boat hull thing is a good example of this.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
I don't know why I feel the need to respond to an AC. My girlfriend says I argue too much, so maybe that's it. As far as wild assumptions, I'm a pretty wild and crazy dude, so look out! Assuming that the slaves were freed by an act of law is probably way off, I'm sure. It was probably the emancipation fairies. I never said anything about South Africa, so rock on with your bad self. I never mentioned the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, just the Cold War in general. I really meant Korea, to be honest. Saw a great PBS special on that. Really informative. Oh, also, my grandpa died in that war. He was a jet pilot. As far as the King and his 7000 princes, I got some know-how on that from another PBS special. I should really pledge to them next pledge drive.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
by the North imposing its will on the South via invasion
The North of what? The South of what? Yeah, America. I never said it didn't take war, and that everybody group-hugged away slavery (which was only one of the issues behind that war). I said it was a domestic issue, and I was right.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
ARRRRGGGHH! The Taliban is on the way out, people! We're not talking about the Taliban! We're talking about post-Taliban society in Afghanistan! Read the article, then read the posts after it, then kiss my ass. Then spend some time with your family this joyous season. Then kiss my ass again.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Why wait? They'll be happy to take your money right now, today!.
You can probably even do it online.
Afghanistan is made of of many different groups who have opposing views. They are divided hence easy to conquer.
When someone has a gun to your head are you still not the people? How can you be responsible for the actions of your government if violence and your death is the only way to fight back?
Repeating your comment might brainwash some but it will not help the starving people of Afghanistan. I guess it is easy to brush off others problems and get on with your life by looking at things with such a simple approach. Unfortunatley without a voting booth this just doesn't work for these people.
I was out of town yesterday and didn't get to read all of these posts till last nite.. Thanks for them..Some responses:
l. Yes, I am quite certain I haven't been had. Junis has been e-mailing me since my Hotwired days, and if he unveiled a plot to deceive me, it's pretty complex and worthy of Le Carre. Lots of people posting are pretty assertive opinions about e-mail from Kabul, but as is often the case with people who know nothing, they are the most enthusiastic about demonstrating it. Many individuals, agencies, foreign and domestic in Afghanistan have been on the Net through the conflict and getting online is not a huge deal with the relatively affluent middle-class survivors around Kabul. I am quite confident about Junis's identity (but for obvious reasons, don't want to dwell on it), and that his e-mail is also genuine.
2. Some of you have kindly offered to send money. He didn't ask for any and doesn't want any.
3. A huge number of people have e-mailed me asking if he might do a Q and A..I'm sure he would, and I think it's a great idea. I'll try and set it up.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
Back in 1998, it took me 2 months to download "The Matrix" over my 14.4k modem, to watch on my K6-366 computer... Now this kid is watching "Independence Day" on his Commodore 64 while listening to MP3s after being on the net for little over one day? Ahhh huh... Katz, if you're going to make up stories on slow news days, you could at least make them remotely plausible.
You forgot one thing, El Leeji Presidente, and that is:
4. Anyone who had enough brains to use the internet there has jumped ship (literally) and ended up here, the promised land of Australia, or died trying... sure he may be from Kabul, but only had enough money to get internet access when his parents got here, and he thought he may have some fun with the dumb fucks that work in american press.
Ahhh... bask in the light of my genius, pilgrims
--
"I feel so cold, on hookers and gin... this mess we're in"
... that you don't really want to suck, cos it aint that fun.
We lose our fantastic fuckin journalist (the aussie camera man) through taliban executions, and yet the powers that be allow wankers like this arse puncher to go around and print fuckin propaganda crap? Has this person ever been outside, let alone in another country to actually see what the fucks goin on out here?
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!! JUST KILL HIM ALREADY!
--
"I feel so cold, on hookers and gin... this mess we're in"
Post the e-mail this guy sent you. Feel free to conceal his real name and e-mail address if you see fit. But post the e-mail, with full headers, so we can see that you're not pulling this all out of thin air.
--
The real Raunchola isn't cool enough to have any imposters
Speaking as an orthodox Jew, I think you're a little off base when you compare our treatment of women with that of extremist muslim governments. Encouraging women to wear knee length skirts is not the same as covering them completely and not allowing them to visit doctors on pain of severe beatings.
Opinions are not Informative, though they may be Insightful or Interesting.
Speaking as an orthodox Jew, I think you're a little off base when you compare our treatment of women with that of extremist muslim governments.
Of course I am, or that sentence would have started "Speaking as an extremist Muslim...". I was close, though, in that Jewish women are treated differently than Jewish men, and that's part of how you worship God.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
that is exactly the reaction i was expecting to get. cool.
-- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
OK, I can accept that.
Opinions are not Informative, though they may be Insightful or Interesting.