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German State Alters DNS To Censor Web Sites [updated]
Rabenwolf writes: "In the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia, the first ISP (ISIS Multimedia) has given in to pressure from the state government and has started to block foreign websites with supposedly "illegal content" by changing the corresponding DNS entries. ISIS customers trying to access these sites are redirected to the website of the local government. ISPs in North Rhine-Westphalia will have to pay a fine if they continue to provide access to sites with "illegal content" through their DNS servers. It's not as bad as China or Saudi-Arabia, but it makes you think... An article from the heise newsticker is here, and if you don't sprechen Deutsch, Google might help." Update: 11/22 15:23 GMT by T : As sqrt points out, this report is misleading: "A single technican altered the DNS Entries to demonstrate it is possible. His changes were already reversed. Heise already posted a new story about this today."
Just use a different name server then.
Anyone finding themselves redirected can use any number of simple DNS tools to find out the real IP (by querying a root server, then the authorative server), then simply access the site by IP rather than FQDN. This may sound a little technical for Johann average, but not when simple instructions are made available to them.
(This would not work with sites that rely on HTTP1.1 to tell them the name of the site, so that many sites can be hosted on a single IP, but that is less widely used than it might be.)
If this is based on DNS entries, tnen what is stopping people using the IP addresses instead?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
(From Google)
;-)
The entrance offerers had questioned thereby whether the entrance to unpleasant, abroad can be prevented gehosteten Websiten at all effectively.
I think I might as well just learn German
Tales from behind the Lagom Curtain
according to this article on heise, the restriction is no longer in effect. According to the press officer, a technician did it on his own and not in accordance with company policies.
Yes.
I really hope people actually think about this before replying about how this is simply wrong. Different countries have different ways of dealing with things. In America, for example, Freedom of Speech is enshrined in law - this gives an enormous amount of protection to citizens from their government, which is good, but also ensures the right of racists and others to say what they like, and recruit new members. In other countries, they frequently take a different approach, and for example consider protecting minorities from hate speech to be more important than letting everyone say whatever they like.
/is/ correct to claim that citizens need to be able to assert control, and not be powerless against their own government, but there are clear disadvatages. The same with speech - given no censorship, and no ability to assert local laws over internet content has major disadvantages, as well as the obvious advantages.
I wish people would understand that these are simply different ways of going about things, and certainly each has its own advantages and disadvatages. I don't honestly think, for example, that one groups is simply correct about gun ownership - perhaps America
A [problem threatening free speech in the U.S.] is the FBI Wiretap of the entire Internet
coupled with the Internet's unsecured DNS. The FBI could surreptitiously censor subtly or DOS sites that criticize the government, for example.They mention "illegal content" quite a bit, but I don't see where they define it. Then again, the Google translation left much to be desired and I did not read to the end of the article. Can anyone elaborate on it?
Side note: It would be most strange if the "illegal content" was pornography, from what I understand, prostitution is legal in Germany. Most would say that is morally worse than a little pr0n. (Me, I could care less).
I guess its all moot anyway.
-- Dan
Why is this not as bad as China or Saudi-Arabia? Censorship is censorship, and governments trying to restrict their peoples access to information on the Internet is equally despicable regardless of the information or the method with which it is attempted.
The world has suffered too much already to the German people's willingness to allow their governments to manipulate and control them. I say shame on all those who are allowing it to continue...
Already in Monday the Duesseldorfer offerer Isis Multimedia Net changed appropriate DN-its-slow-acting on its name server.
Can someone who speaks german please explain what a DN-its-slow-acting is?
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Rather than sue websites (like France has done to Yahoo) Germany is attempting to address content issues within their own borders through technical means. I may or may not agree with what they are attempting to keep out, but I respect their right to try and I respect the fact their solution is lawyer free.
Of course, anyone with a phone number to an out-of-country ISP and a modem will have no trouble getting around this weak blockade, but that is a seperate issue.
--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
Hopefully, the folks who kneejerk respond to stories about similar abuses in the US with "hah hah, the US sucks, come live in a real country" will keep this and similar problems (such as the French encryption policies and Yahoo lawsuit) in mind.
The Internet is shaking up the status quo globally, and the assaults on our freedom of speech to stop it are similarly global. If the US removes it's citizens' freedom, it affects you, whether you're in Georgia the state or Georgia the country.
Google gives the translated title as "Net barrier for Fritzchen stupid", with somehow somes it up nicely
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Anti-hate-speech laws, whether in Germany or Francs or the U.S., seem to be predicated on the idea that the speech itself has some sort of magical power over people's minds. I think that's very wrong, and it distracts attention from where it's needed most.
A number of different groups would have you believe that the swastika was this magical symbol that automatically turned rational people into genocidal creatures: All you do is hide the swastikas and everything's okay. Remember that the Holocaust had a very specific economic and political context: For a number of reasons, the German people had endured one of the worst economic declines ever to be suffered by an industrialized nation, and they were terrified and desperate. This does not excuse what happens, but it gives a much more sensible explanation than what normally passes for historical analysis -- "We need to keep the images of swastikas away from impressionable white kids", or "Germans are just a racist people", or similar pap.
So now Germany has a problem with skinheads (though it tends to get blown way out of proportion because the rest of the world watches the country very carefully). So why is that? Is that because German teenagers can get their hands on albums by talentless oi-skinhead bands? Or maybe, just maybe, it's because the reunification of Germany has been fraught with all sorts of economic and political stresses, and there are too many scared, uneducated, hopeless Germans who are looking for a scapegoat.
Of course, when it comes to what a politician can do about it, there's really no option at all, is there? Either he can stand up and say "We should work hard to make sure that everybody has good economic opportunities" -- and be branded as some stuck-in-the-past Marxist -- or he can point fingers and say "Let's keep Nazi images off the internet!"
Do domain names matter?
It is not "thought" control, it is "publication" control. Not the same thing. You can even speak about it with your friend, you know. The word Nazi hasn't been deleted. But of course, If you don't mind seeing Germany under Nazi rule again ( America has an history of supporting right-wing dictatorships in South America, after all...), Then let them speak. Then, ten years later, YOU go fighting them. Free Speech didn't work to avoid totalitarian regime, in the 30's. Because of that, in 1945, the Americans (along with others), have forbidden any German to promote Nazism. It seems the Germans want to keep this law.
The Caos Computer Club has a transcript of the letters sent to the ISPs by the Government. They demanded the blocking of: front14.org, stormfront.org, nazi-lauck-nsdapao.com for illegal nazi-content (which is illegal in Germany for historical reasons) and rotten.com As a site that uses pictures undermining the dignity of man and endangering the youth. I'd personaly - as a german citizen - prefer to see more money spent on media-education so people could make an informed decision about good and bad links to follow than on this campaign that opens doors to censorship (which is against our constitution btw.)
If a country implemented DNS blocking like this as a long-standing policy, it's easy to imagine people trying all sorts of technical fixes to get around it. People would set up their own "All Hate DNS", or maybe they'd distribute .hosts files with lists of blocked domains ...
But once you're doing that, why even use the old domain name? If you had www.killalljews.com resolving through the "All Hate DNS", wouldn't you also want www.killalljews.hate, and www.finalsolution.now, and everything else?
It introduces the possibility of a conflicting, though smaller, namespace, being overlaid on the DNS -- one more step towards fragmenting the namespace. Not that such fragmentation is necessarily a good thing, but it sure would be interesting to watch ...
Do domain names matter?
Now that ISIS has stopped blocking the sites under massive objection from free speech advocates, the local government has released a press statement in which they claim that ISIS gave in to racist pressure. Guess we're all nazis now because we didn't want to allow our government to take the easy route to complete content control.
The statement is here: Pressemitteilung 467/2001 der Bezirksregierung Düsseldorf vom 22.11.2001
I had a lot of meetings with the BKA (something like the german FBI) about fighting criminality in the internet. And they underestimate scale and complexity of the net.
I give you one example. There is a software called PERKEO. PERKEO is able to checksum files quickly and has an internal database of known checksums of child pornography images. They argued, that most child pornography images (which are exchanged through the internet) are well known. Somewhat like 95+% shell be in the database.
In the discussion with the ISPs they argued, that it would be easy to add PERKEO to the proxy server. For every image accessed, the checksum is created and compared with the database. In case the checksum matches, the access is blocked.
When i tried to explain, that the introduction would only result in countermeasure (automatic modification of images), it was taken as unwillingness.
Every meeting (i know about) ended with the same results: Everyone is willing to fight criminals, but the is no modus operandi. The law enforcement agencies have wishes the ISPs do not consider compatible with the law and constitution.
Some politicians and law enforcers are growing more and more frustrated. So a state (Nordrhein- Westfalen) tries to work with laws that put more responisbility on the shoulders of the ISPs.
This generates confusion and the confusion results in such events like the one discussed.
CU, Martin
Could someone tell me, does this guy *actually* not understand that the first amendment doesn't cover Germany, or, er, did he just vote for Bush?
I'm an American, not a German, but I thought that Germany's constitution forbade this. In particular, quoting from Article 5:
Or, in English:
Could someone who is German or who has studied German law please clarify?
Sure, the US government is oppressive, except when compared to any other. No local magistrate has the power or ability to keep me from posting to this website, and should they try to do so, I have the power to sue them, undo the censorship, and get them to pay me for the exercise of that privilege.
Freedom of speech in the United States is not absolute, of course. But it is unparalleled elsewhere. In what other nation can you go to the nation's highest court and announce "Fuck the draft?" with absolute immunity?
The update needs an update: the blocking continues, just not ISIS but other providers, ISIS does not seem to be very open about what has really happened and according to our local government almost all who protested are are probably nazis.
I just got off the phone yesterday with a client from germany who was telling me that his website that we host here in america was pointing to a porn site. The content on his page was correct, as was apache's httpd.conf file, and the dns records on his nameserver.. Everything was setup correctly.
:)
I told him that someone was probably playing with his ISP's DNS records. Go figure
It's very easy to pass over all this stupid barriers (including country firewalls). All I have to do is ask one single question.
Does anybody have a proxy (anonymizer) server avaiable?
Nothing else to say.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
I've found that in many cases, using the nameserver your ISP hands you will result in a 1-2 second per lookup delay - most ISPs have horribly overloaded their DNS servers. Where I work, I was seeing 2-5 seconds per lookup. I brought this to the attention of our IT staff, and had them reconfigure our plant nameserver to do the lookup directly. Name lookups went from 2-5 seconds to <100 msec. Since we are a large shop with lots of clients, it makes sense.
Running your own caching nameserver will speed up your browsing, and if you use a real name server package, you can configure it to do the lookups itself rather than going through your ISP's servers. Thus, you can prevent them from screwing with your DNS, you can use alternate root servers if you so choose, and you get better response.
I'm somewhat shocked that Assimilation-XP doesn't have a caching nameserver....
www.eFax.com are spammers
Yes it does. And it is very important that they chose the word 'expression' rather than the word 'speech' - a huge amount has been made of this. The fact that you're allowed to *express* whatever you like doesn't mean you're allowed to *say* whatever you like.
Perhaps I am thinking enough to question conventional wisdom. Nothing is black and white. But finding the right shade of gray is difficult.
For the record I am not Pro internet cencorship I just belive that cencorship does have a place in society, it's just that you have to make sure it's the right place. And no matter what you think about it some form of cencorship affects you everyday.
--
Burt "Out of my mind back in 5 minutes"
Of course, America's thinking doesn't let YOU read the words of bin Laden, becasue your government thinks they're too dangerous and has conspired with the media to try to prevent you from accessing them.
Wouldn't it be simple for ISPs to block queries from their customers to port 53 on any systems but their designated name servers?
I'm not raising this because I think it's a good idea, but because it's obvious enough that we may have to provide a work-around, such as setting up DNS on other ports, in a widely-distributed way.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
The european convention on human rights [coe.int] does cover germany, and does include freedom of expression provisions. All of the France & Germany anti nazi laws are coming under scrutiny atm, but another provision of the converntion is anti discrimination.
The way out of this quandry is something of the form of "I may disagree with what you say, but will defend your ability to say it".
There are a couple of fundermental problems with anti "hate speach" laws. One is that making something illegal adds mystique and attracts rebellious teenagers to it. The other is that it's not that big a jump to "hate" becoming equated to harming the interests of those in authority, where they are corrupt and/or oppressive.
As others have pointed out banning opposition positions from being heard is a common first action of totalitarian governments, including the German Nazis in the late 1930s.
"Liberalism" is a political philosophy that takes individual freedom as the basic state of society, and says that the burden of proof and justification must always fall on the side of those who advocate deviating from that. It differs from "conservatism", which takes the current (or often years past) society as the natural state and says that the burden of proof must fall on those advocating change. Anybody who supports censorship whenever possible is clearly NOT liberal, whatever they claim to be...
Note that these two definitions are not mutually exclusive. If the status quo is towards individual freedom they would tend to be in agreement.
However the term "liberal" has changed it's meaning in the US to mean more those who favour lots of government intervention. And often specifically to refer to the Democrat party,
Here's another update: ISIS has reestablished the DNS redirection. One of their nameservers is issv0099.isis.de. Check it yourself: www.rotten.com should be 216.218.248.174, but right now their server returns 195.158.131.132, which really is virtual.isis.de.
The fake DNS entries on ISIS' server are active again. Note that they are not just redirecting www.rotten.com, but the entire domain, via a wildcard CNAME entry.
having read through the comments, i would like to add a few things.
firs of all, it affects just one state. in germany, each state is responsible for the media by themselves. this includes things like assigning frequencies and so on.
this particular state tries to push the local ISPs (which are not the ones used by the majoraty of the people living there anyway) to block access to those websites. this has been (and will be) opposed by the ISPs, for obvious (technical and constitutional) reasons. one ISIS technician did it, to prove it was possible.
it is uncertain if such a government blocking would be legal.
i agree with all of you saying censorship is bad in general. i also believe it is wrong in this special case.
but there are some things you should take in account, before judjing germany as some repressive country.
those are, of coures, historical reasons. the nazis used media propaganda not only after they gained power, but from the very beginning of their movement, as they had the support of some big publishers. and they used a hole in the constitution of the weimar republic to abandon the constitution alltogether. to prevent this in the future, when the new constitution was made, making it protective had a top priority. protective means that any attempt to fight the constitution is illegal, and certain key paragraphs must not be changed (including the one about censorship being illegal, by the way).
so if you promote a plan to abandon the constitution it is illegal, if a party proposes to abandon the constitution, the party is illegal, and if the party has no democratic structure - guess what.
nazi symbols are illegal, denying the holocaust is illegal, basicly anything pro-nazi is.
contrary to popular believe Mein Kampf is not, but the copyright is claimed by the state of bavaria, so you can't buy it (you can't read it either, i tried it once but didn't make it past the first chapter).
i believe this should be kept up for some 40 more years. imagine you have suffered under the nazis, been arrested by the gestapo or maybe even sent to a concentration camp and you see the same symbols again on someones t-shirt.
but to get to main point: nazi propaganda in germany is illegal. so some people have their sites hosted somewhere else. 90% of german language nazi content is hosted outside of germany. so the idea is to block access to it from within germany. but three question remain:
- is it possible?
- is it legal?
- is it good?
the legal status is unclear, but critical.
the technical possibility is, to say the least, questionable.
the issue iif it is good is just being discussed. i think it's not, a proper educated mind should be able to deal with propaganda, from any side.
i wanted to write something about the different freedoms you have in europe and in the US, but i will do that in another post...
--
making up good sigs is a hard thing to do.
You can point your computer to whatever DNS server you want. Just point to one in the US.
Kevin Fox
Which party rules North Rhine - Westphalia? (Or is it just Düsseldorf?
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
So you wouldn't use something like "untenladendaten" or is that too long even for speakers of German? It sounds kinda cool to me. Probably something we could make a song out of.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
No doubt about it. Exactly my point. Being different doesn't make it right.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
The same problem (including the front14.org site, who got more publicity than it could ever dream of thanks to these affairs - but that's another matter) was brought to court recently in France.
The judge decided not to decide anything; basically, he chose to let the ISPs decide for themselves, what they should do with these sites. "Block it or not, you decide." Quite sensible, IMHO.
The disciple of Solomon who made that non-decision was judge Gomez, the same guy who orderd Yahoo to block access to Nazi-related auctions from French machines.
All in all, that doesn't change much, and the recent moves by the EU on that subject don't help either. At the end of the day, the only truth is that since the 1st amendment exists in the US, it now de facto exists everywhere in the world, and that the only thing that can go against it is financial threat (e.g. Yahoo who removed Nazi auctions altogether for fear that their assets in France could be at risk).
Oh strange new World, with such an Internet in't !
Thomas Miconi
Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany (Grundgesetz, GG)
Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch, StGB)
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Blackmarket hosts files! Alright a way to pay my bills even during the tech recession using nothing but my mad Unix skills. Okay who will be the first bidder of the day! :)
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
And the ISPs have only been *asked* to block the Nazi sites.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
According to/
http://heise.de/newsticker/data/fr-22.11.01-001
the block is back on.
Looks like today is the day of firm decision...or is it... well maybe... but no, yes it is.
+++ath0