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Evolution 1.0 Released
jdavidb writes: "I pulled up the Ximian redcarpet updater this morning and discovered that Evolution 1.0 is finally available! Now Outlook can start facing some serious competition, although there's still a long way to go. (Evolution does not yet emulate all the Outlook viruses, of course, nor does it integrate with Exchange Server.)" Here's Ximian's full announcement. Update: 12/03 14:59 GMT by T : Nat Friedman of Ximian points out that they're offering a software extension which does allow integration with Exchange 2000. There's good story on the new iteration of Evolution at NewsForge, too.
By Microsoft, natch.
See press release at Ximian's site. Available early next at $69 a pop.
>Now Outlook can start facing some serious >competition, although there's still a long way to >go. (Evolution does not yet emulate all the >Outlook viruses, of course, nor does it integrate >with Exchange Server.)
A better way of putting this is "does not COMPLETELY integrate with Exchange Server". I'm running it with my company's Exchange servers, via IMAP, LDAP, and SMTP, and the only thing not working is Calendar and shared TODO.
Otherwise, download the binaries or source code.
I'd figure that Lotus Notes would be a *no brainer* for Linux considering their backing of the platform. Does anyone know what is holding them back? Are they just trying to shoot themselves in the foot or what?
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Evolution is actually a very nice app and I use it at home, mainly because of the nice conduits avaliable for Palm synching.
I hope it's finaly a stable program now, cause it had lot's of nasty bugs.
Ciryon
Full compatability with MS Exchange Is coming
I like Evolution... really, I do. Except, I can't use it. We use Exchange at work, and there's nothing I can do to make Evolution work.
I think Ev v1 was roadmapped to integrate with Exchange -- since it doesn't it's not a viable option for corporates who primarily use Windows, but have people using Unix.
But, Exchange is not the be-all and end-all, tight integration with Lotus Domino would be excellent. Lots of big corporations use Notes heavily, and require a Windows client (Domino web services aren't great)
Perhaps an open standard for groupware (discussion, IM, calendar, to-do etc.) could be adopted, and through that Exchange/Notes -> new standard could be employed, aloowing other people to bring integration with whatever groupware server they want to Evolution and other clients?
Could be a very bad idea, but it's just off the top of my head!
Dave
Looks like gnome development is going well now ... along with Galeon 1.0 being released a week ago, some of the critical apps are starting to get 'solid'.
Another twist in the KDE vs. Gnome fight?
Not until it runs on Windows and Mac...
Much as I love Linux, I don't think it quite has the same prevalence on the desktop.
This sounds like the true Exchange solution many of us are looking for - It is proprietary and closed though.
Before the flamage on Ximian begins, let me just say, that the businesses that this product is for have already invested in closed source software, so I think its a great idea to finance Evolution this way.
Great job guys, keep it up!
Until it fully supports Exchange Server, it'll never be a serious competitor to Outlook.
Sorry, but face reality. In the corporate world it either has to be 100% compatible otherwise they just won't use it. Price is generally immaterial.
Plus any company who can afford Exchange Server will no doubt be able to afford licences for Outlook so the whole "but its free" doesn't really offset the fact that its not fully compatible.
However, in spite of all this, lets not knock them for a fine product. Always some work to do, but its definately on the right roads ...
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I've been using Evolution since I believe .6 (I've been on it for over a year) exclusively and have yet to have a problem with it. YMMV, but I'm very impressed.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
I'm using Evolution and Mutt as my primary mail clients now (I used to only use Mutt, but I forced myself into Evo so I could help with testing and bug reports). Evo is a very impressive application and I hope people who need such a tool will like it.
However, I don't need or want such a tool. I just want a mail client that logs into my IMAP server, reads and sends mail. That's it. Integrated {contact manager,calendar,task manager,whatever} is cool, but I don't want it. I need something that does a thing, and it does it well, and I hope that other mail(-only) clients will raise to the standard set by Evolution (so far only Mulberry was good enough but it's neither free or open source, and there are a couple things I don't like about it either).
Petru
1) It won't yet do email alerts calendar events, or so the pop up tells me. So my cell phone won't beep me when a meeting is in ten minutes and I'm still eating burritos at the mexican restaurant on the next block. Sucks.
2) I can't expunge mail at all. It's got something to do with the UID EXPUNGE header while using IMAP and the commercial version of Sendmail running here. Pine can do it. Netscape can do it. So can Outlook. But Evolution can't. I've reported this issue, and unfortunately they didn't address it in the 1.0 release.
Evolution looks nice. But if I can't expunge my mail without loading up pine, then I'll stick with pine.
Bummer.
Software Wars
Its nice, but I can't figure where they say its groupware. Currently, its a PIM. But, for some odd reason, there not intrested in intergrating it into a groupware application via XML-RPC or SOAP. If that where true, then they could start plugging into phpGroupWare. I have about 20 people a week asking me if I could ask them to do it, so I simply tell them to email there developers instead. Needless to say, nothing has come about.
Also, we actually have a client side application for Linux and Windows that is working. (Buggy, but works) Its still under heavy development, but it pretty easy to plug into. A more portable version is in the works.
Anyway, so people would stop asking me about it, please, email there development team and ask them to talk to the phpGroupWare guys about creating an XML-RPC or SOAP interface. I think these 2 projects would go hand and hand nicely.
So, for those complaining about the lack of an "exchange server" enviroment, something is there, just not being used.
until (succeed) try { again(); }
From the article, "And built-in synchronization keeps Ximian Evolution users' calendars, contacts and tasks up-to-date with their Palm handheld devices," which i'd consider a must before switching, but does anyone know if it supports irda sync? My palm3e synced to an old-skewl imac 2 years ago (still think it sucks that apple axed the ir port), and ir recently started working in windows, so i'd rather not go back to lugging the cradle around with my laptop if i can help it.
Well, now I need to figure out how to migrate my email from Outlook 2002 (not Outlook Express), to Evolution. I _think_ I've got a way, but not sure. Has this feature been added to a recent version of Evolution?
The previous way I figured out how I could do this was to fire up Eudora, as it could open Outlook 2000 email files (not sure about Outlook 2002) - then once you've got your email in Eudora's format (related to mbox format, as I recall - could be wrong), then it was easy to convert to a UNIX way of things. If Evolution doesn't do this automatically, it certainly should. That's one of the big challenges of moving people from MS software to anything else - converting those file formats with ease, and doing so _perfectly_, every time.
An exchange connector is a library with a familiar interface that will handle all connections with the exchange server. Now, this Exchange connector for Evolution is not GPL-ed software but proprietry closed source software. Because afaik in memory linking is also prohibited, how is Ximian going to solve any GPL conflicts? Or is the GPL not able to force its license on the connector?
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
For those of you who just want the Evolution 1.0 binaries, and not the whole Ximian desktop, go to ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/ and get the following packages:
* evolution
* libgnome-pilot0
* libgtkhtml20
* libnss3
Note, I installed under Debian, so other systems may be slightly different, however, this should be a very good place to start
The exchange connector is NOT FREE SOFTWARE. Why is slashdot not calling a jihad against this?
Why are you asking us to?
Yes, some free software fanatics read Slashdot, but there are also a lot of us who think that free (in both senses) software and non-free can co-exist. In fact, I believe Ximian's strategy is the most sensible for new generation software companies - give away the basic product, sell the add-ons.
...it's not necessarily a busy mirror problem. I think it's real-carpet that's dying. I've had massive problems with it just hanging (and having to do kill -9's as root to get rid of it). I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem either; I've talked to others on IRC who have also had problems. The trick seems to be to remove everything out of /var/cache/redcarpet and then running it again.
:p But it was a Red Hat 7.2 system upgraded to the latest Helix Gnome only about a month and a bit ago).
;-)
By the way, I just connected and it seems there is an "Urgent Update" for red-carpet, which brings it up to version 1.1.4-ximian.8. (Sorry, I can't tell you what my previous version was, 'cuz I already upgraded.
Gnome is looking hella good these days. I'm sure Evolution is just as good, but I have no reason to give up Pine anytime soon.
AFAIK, your "dumb" place the place where gnome should go, according to the LSB.
they gotta make money somehow, dude. giving away free software ISNT one way of making money.
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
Anyone know why the Secure MIME option isn't available from the security mail settings? Is this a feature planned for later, or am I missing a package of some sort?
--It's Pimptastic!--
I use PINE for my Exchange integration Email work. Works perfectly - apparently PINE is as much integrated with Exchange as Evolution is, until they start selling their component that'll connect to the calendar.
The calendar is the only reason I keep Outlook around, really.
My real problem with Evolution is, it looks like Outlook. I cannot use Outlook for Email. I find the interface to be completely horrible, unintuitive and hard to keep organized. The whole "Rules" thing just does not work. With PINE, if you want to save a message to a different mailbox, you hit "S <ENTER>". With Outlook you have to Drag'n'Drop. Imagine that for 200 messages.
Maybe it's because I've been using PINE for god-knows how long, but GUI mail clients just don't work for me.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Greetings.
Ximian is great, except for one little detail, which prevents me to recommend it. From what I gathered in the monkey talk chat room and elsewhere is that once you install Ximian, you are mostly stuck with the current version of your distribution.
For instance, Ximian and Red Hat 7.1. Red carpet does not allow (at least I have not found any links) to upgrade to Red Hat 7.2. I was told that one must uninstall Ximian Gnome before upgrading to RH 7.2. That is not very user friendly. BTW, how does one uninstall Ximian Gnome? Anybody have the receipe for upgrading a system with Ximian installed? An easy receipe BTW? (Not manually identify and manually remove each rpms for instance).
This system upgrade is the one serious piece missing, which for the moment prevents me to recommend Ximian to others. And by ricochet, I cannot recommend Ximian's Evolution.
Sincerely,
Hans Deragon
Remember the year 2000? They promised us flying cars. They delivered the PT Cruiser...
Hey, anyone know of any other projects based on the evolution code-base? I kinda like evolution from what I have seen of the pre-release versions. It looks like a real progression. However, I am sure there are alot of people like myself who like the advanced email features that arent really present in other linux-based mail programs. However, I really do not want a calender, schedules, task lists etc.
In the same way that the Mozilla code base has been hacked - in a generally reductionist way - to produce the much-improved Galeon and promising K-Meleon, I feel that Evolution could benefit from the same process.
Offers, anyone? Im a little busy right now.....
I'm not trying to troll here, but I have strong doubts that Ximian will survive. But, before I continue, let me congratulate them on Evolution, as it is a very high quality product, and my preferred mail client.
From the newsforge article, quotes from Nat Friedman, vice president of product development:
"We expect less than we would have expected awhile ago. I think that people understand that businesses have to survive. And the people know that the bloody carcasses of Open Source companies line the horizon right now."
and
"It is proprietary is because they (Ximian) intend to make money from it."
Effectively what I see here is an admission that open source software just isn't getting the bills paid (at least for Ximian, and Eazel RIP), and that they need to sell proprietry software in order to keep afloat.
Unless we see open source companies like ximian generate significantly more revenue from services related to their open source projects, we just aren't gonna have the pleasure of using new products from them for much longer.
However, what should be remembered is that Notes is a database and workflow application. It is not an Emailer or even a PIM.
See my journal, I write things there
I'd be the first to admit that I much prefer KDE/Qt, both from a user and technical viewpoint, but it is excellent to see GNOME and GTK+ applications making great strides too.
There was a point not so long ago where I feared that GTK+ and GNOME had lost their way completely, and that would have been sad - I think the friendly (and sometimes not-so-friendly ;) rivalry and cross-pollination between the systems has been a bigger win than the split of resources has been a loss. Neither system can afford to sit on their laurels for too long or else the other will take up the slack and make them irrelevant.
It does remain to be seen, however, what will happen with GTK+/GNOME 2.0 - it has been a very long time in coming, and in the meantime KDE 2.x has built up a very large (but not unassailable) head of steam. It's very important that the GNOME guys get 2.0 right (not like the 1.0 release - remember that disaster?) if they want to continue to be more than a bit-part player.
I watch the mailing lists with interest... it's a great soap opera :)
Ok, scrolling through 200+ messages, and ctrl-clicking all the ones you want, and then dragging them - sure, that'll work.
It's still faster in PINE ( ; t f <text> <ENTER> a s <mailbox-name> is the complicated way).
The thing is, with PINE if you're saving individual messages, it'll default to a mailbox name based on the sender's name or alias you defined - no need to 'drag' as it were - which is the real time saver. If you have seevral hundred saved-message boxes, you don't need to start looking for them. mail from "Anonymous@Coward.com" will always, by default, go into the same box when you hit "S <ENTER>" - that's what I'm missing in Outlook which is making my INBOX so cluttered.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
I just loaded 0.99.2 onto my system the day before yesterday this way and, so far, it works great. Imported all of my old mail (mbox format) without a problem. Only downside I found was having to key in all of my email addresses...
Hope this helps,
C0deMonkey
Ximian was waiting on the Evolution 1.0 release to release the Mandrake 8.1 version of it. Expect an 8.1 release in the next two weeks.
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Just be sure to use the '-o' option, or you'll get all your pinboard icons in your window list.
Ummm... Drag and Drop *does* pretty much work that way. XMMS supports drops from at least Nautilus and GMC, and I think Konqueror as well as ROX.
For the end user, Drag and Drop is very much a reality.
For Developers, there are some issues, I admit.
I for one, in my projects test my DnD against releases of Nautilus, Konqeuror, GMC, and Rox. If you can accept from Nautilus and from Konqueror, you will be able to accept from most anywhere. The problem I see from a developer standpoint is that while all the DnDs are now more similarly implemented, there are still enough differences so that implementing DnD interoperability with other apps is not as trivial as it should be. For example, the action type maybe copy from one app and move from another, even in the exact same context. Also, the formats of filenames differs. It could be prefixed with file:, file:/, file://, or nothing at all depening on the app. Could be suffixed with \r,\n, a space, an additional embedded NULL, simple NULL termination, or any combination of the afformentioned terminators. And in encoding the string, some programs pass it as it is, some do URI encoding (space becomes %20, etc) with capital letters for hex letters, some use lower case.
The prefix is pretty easy to catch, correct, and understand, but the inconsistancy with action types, encoding, and the various weird string-termination schemes is really hard for a developer to catch or develop around, and there is no real good reason for so many different ways of ending a string. If only projects could converge on a simple standard for this small issue, it would be great.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Evolution wanted one version of pilot-link, and KDE PIM wanted another...but the packages are mutually exclusive (a rarity, but it happened).
Can this be forced & patched with a simlink?
Personally, I prefer Evolution to KDE PIM, but I'm looking after a few different computers and want to leave the option of what one to choose up to the user. For now, Evolution wins so KDE PIM gets yanked though it would be nice not to have to pick and choose.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
I don't see any problem with charging for the Exchange connector. Think of it as encouragement to go open source!
Let's say you're a small company with an Exchange server. You pay for Exchange. You pay for CALs. Then someone installs Evolution and lets some of your people access Exchange without buying into the whole MS-$$-desktop licensing (I'm thinking support people, especially). You're still paying something, though, to make Evolution work with Exchange.
Then someone says, "You know, Evolution would work just as well with Courier/Cyrus/whatever as an IMAP backend, and then we wouldn't have to pay for the Exchange server or the Exchange connectors.
And there's your incentive to go open source.
Also, this puts the onus of supporting Ximian on the corporations, who can afford it. If I want to use Evolution for myself to access my IMAP server, it's free. If I want to use it to get into Exchange at work, I get my boss to spring for a license. I'm happy, he's happy, Ximian stays in business.
Caveat: Exchange still wins in the corporation until Evolution + Open Source server XYZ can provide shared calendaring and scheduling.
I'd love to try Evolution, but my computer isn't powerful enough to run Linux and GNOME.
Some of us don't have 1GHz/256MB computers.
Runs fine on my P166/128MB computer. For that matter, I've also got it running on a P233 with 48MB, but it's sloooow there.
Love jump up and down and be excited with you but I have to say these products are nothing to write home about.
Ximian (on 6.2 500mhz 512MB ATI & 7.2 800mhz 512MB nVidia) is slower than molasses uphill in January. Totally unusable for day to day work. Looks nice slow as shit.
Evolution is also slow and v1.0 has done little to improve that. Further it is a clunky way to do mail.
I am open to suggestions to get it up to speed but my current experience with it is that it is too slow to be used.
<OSX uber alles>
ty, tyvm
This
Close on the heels of this development, Microsoft announced that its software would be fully in compliance with all laws concerning munitions exports and creationism.
Find free books.
The description of this Connector makes it look like it might live on the server side.
Does exchange itself have a plugin architecture? When I used to be responsible for the care and feeding of Outlook clients the saddest thing was watching the parasitic developers that developed Outlook add-ons try to keep up with changes in Outlook. These, mind you, were Microsoft's friends, at least for as long as it takes for Microsoft to implement all the extra features of fax clients and remote access accelerators into Outlook proper. If Ximian intends to keep up with Microsoft on Microsoft's OS and groupware server, I'd reckon they're in for a wild ride.
Perhaps this connector will be a middleware Linux server translating between the Evo clients and the Exchange server. OK, now you're only trying to keep up with Exchange. Just remember to add the cost of a reasonably powered Linux box to the equation. Since this connector is proprietary, be prepared to get stuck with binaries that may not work with subsequent releases of the distro(s) they support. How happy would you be to admin a Redhat 5 box right now?
If this thing is client side, then it is surely an abomination.
"Things in the real world cost real money, son." Blah-blah-blah, this Ximian-Connector business still smells like bait-and-switch.
I hear chants of "It's not done 'til Lotus don't run" echoing in the distance.
Well, you're definately not an end user. They like staying in one app with one consistent interface to do multiple, related tasks in a common environment. They keep one screen up and get e-mail and meeting requests. E-mail serves as as a communication medium, a way to update status on a project and as a workflow solution to replace dead tree forms and streamline the approval process for purchases. And while I haven't seen it used for anything more useful than "where do we go for lunch?" it is also used to poll people for in-house surveys.
The "small sharp tools" mindset is great if you are an admin or a real power user but, from my experience with end users, it is a hinderance to the rest of the PC using community. Well integrated, monolithic applications like Office, Outlook and MSIE are much easier to work with.
This isn't saying MS does everything right but most people, including more than a few of my fellow IT staff, would cringe at a series of commands like grep | cut -f 2 | sort | uniq to get some info out of a log file. And IMHO, for the most part, "small sharp tools" doesn't translate well into a GUI environment. For most end users, stuff like Evolution is exactly what linux needs to become more widely adopted as a desktop OS.
Therefor the open source movement are just asking for the same problems as we today see in outlook/exchange/ISS -systems...
I disagree. Where MS failed is not looking at the 30 years worth of lessons mature OSes like *nix have learned the hard way. You don't enable tons of options/programs/etc. by default. You don't allow untrusted executables elevated permissions. Sometimes you do sacrifice adding a feature because it isn't a safe thing to do.
From the limited amount of reading I've done in regards to Evolution, it seems they've taken those considerations into account. We'll have to see how it pans out in the real world.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
I'm not forgetting - I'm discounting.
Outlook runs on top of Windows, which is not free. It's quite expensive.
Because of the way things are priced, companies usually end up buying Office, and therefore paying even more for Outlook.
If I understood the offer correctly, Microsoft offered to put computers in a lot of schools, where 20% was the hardware cost, and the other 80% of the money was required to put software on them. If you think Outlook is "free," you aren't paying the bills.
Using Evolution with Exchange is going to cost a company more than using Outlook. When deploying Exchange you buy a server license, either standard or enterprise, and then you buy client licenses for each user. Along with that license you also get an Outlook license.
If we wanted to move to Evolution we'd still have to pay the same amount, and then have to pay for the Exchange connector on top of it. The price just went up $70/user to move to Evolution. I can't seem to locate my quote for our Exchange migration here, but a quick check shows a 5 user client access pack for Exchange is about $350...so the price per user just doubled.
I'll pay it... I've been waiting for this since Evolution was first announced. Every LinuxWorld I ask them about Exchange support so it's nice to see it coming soon. But, it will be harder for someone else to do a mass migration.
Something to consider.... I hope it works for them. I see Ximian as a company that needs to stick around for the Linux desktop to really take off.
This is only going to work on PC's Loaded with Linux Running XIMIAN/GNOME
;-) (Current storage capacity is 2.5 gigs; I desperately need a new hard drive...)
Not true; you only need the required libraries installed in order to run evolution, you don't need gnome to be running. You can quite happily run it on a machine running KDE, or WindowMaker, twm, etc. You may well lose some of the default integration stuff, but that should be fixed just by changing file type associations to point at your chosen apps.
Even if you install Gnome in its entirity, you'll only blow a hundred megs of disk space or so, and even I can afford that
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Yeah my website sucks. I realized that long before you did.
.. it was a two year long experiment that resulted in like 15,000 lines of code.
Though it's not "half-assed"
--
the community created an open source plug-in that
was analogous to connector?
As a side note, I think they've found a great balance between being open source and still selling code. Most of the mass of the app is free, and that rules.
The Exchange connector costs money? So, what? As long as it keeps this company a float.
I use Ximian Gnome and Evolution as my email client exclusively and have been VERY impressed. Sure, it is fluff to get my Slashdot headlines through the app but I love the integration of my PIM and email functionality. It is solid and I have yet to hit many of the bugs other people have seen (maybe RedCarpet is good for something besides taking up desktop space).
The app performs well and looks good. Now, if they could just get Gnome itself to speed up then I would be a happy camper. I am about this far from going back to WindowMaker because Kde and Gnome feel so slow next to Wmaker on a quick Celeron running SuSE 7.2.
ACK
Guess I'll respond to the flamebait :)
I disagree. Modem users are not forced to do anything, including using the "upgrade" option of a distribution. They should probably whip out their credit card and pony up the dough to buy a boxed set online. In the U.S., using a modem is saving you $20-$40/month versus a broadband connection anyway, making the $29.95 price of a boxed set of Ximian Gnome, or $59.95 for RedHat 7.2 a trivial price to pay for not having to download hundreds of megabytes of data.
I'm not saying distro makers should abandon the "upgrade" option; I'm saying I have had bad experiences with attempting to "upgrade", versus backing up critical data and installing from scratch. Even Richard Stallman got his start with GNU Emacs selling tapes of Emacs for $150 a pop because people didn't have the pipes to download it!
Back to the topic of this thread, however: Version-specificness (is that a word?) of Ximian is annoying, and I don't envy the modem user unwilling to purchase the boxed set their download of 200-300Mbytes after an upgrade. However, even minor revision numbers of the same distribution often break binary compatability. Is there a better way to do it than Ximian provides?
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
For older versions of Outlook:
http://mbx2mbox.sourceforge.net/
For newer versions:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ol2mbox/
For Outlook Express 4 or 5:
http://www.gpl.no/liboe/
The links on the mbx2mbox page are quite useful -- that's where I picked up the others.
No, you're not really correct. Outlook *and* Outlook Express are both free products. Even though Outlook comes with every copy of Microsoft Office, it's really just thrown into the bundle. You're not really paying for it. As it was pointed out already, MS makes their money on the client access licenses they require you to purchase to make connections to their Exchange server.
Whenever you buy a copy of Exchange Server, they even throw in a set of install CDs of Outlook for Mac and PC. They hope you'll install lots of free copies of Outlook so you have to pay them big $'s for all those connection licenses.
so true, I can't help but wonder if the "proprietary" part is due to their licensing the protocol from MS?
AFAIK, the fastest way to meet a MS lawyer is hacking or otherwise reverse engineering the exchange protocol.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
But Notes is scriptable and has nice repository features (UID-based replication; hierarchical storage, etc.) and has very nice access management. So workflow is an obvious application. But so are other apps that involve sharing masses of text. Which is why there's now support for HTTP, POP, IMAP, LDAP, and god knows what else.
So of course IBM has ported Notes to Linux. But not the whole thing. The Notes server, which has become a separate product known as Domino, is available on Linux and every other platform IBM is into. IBM used to push the Notes client as a general-purpose message app, but it's so weird and kludgy that it really has not hope of a following except among Notes true believers.
The thing that bothers me about Notes is that it's sold as a workflow solution. What it really is is a platform on which workflow solutions can be built -- with a lot of development and integration effort!
how many ximianers (ites?) are using Evo? Are they being forced to eat their own dogfood or do they still use pine or elm or mutt or whatever?
my blog: good times, man, good times
The Ximian Connector is priced at $69 ($599 for 10 pack, $1499 for 25 pack) and comes with 90 days of web-based installation support.
Note that the 10 pack ($59.90 per license) is cheaper than the 25 pack ($59.96 per license).
I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation
That's why Evolution has the search bar. Type in the search bar, click "Find Now", Ctrl-A (select all), drag to where you want them.
I've used both PINE and Evo, and I call it a draw.
I repeat it since I have points and the mods aren't bothering to read at 0 today:
The plugin runs as a component, not a library, so the communication is via a CORBA interface. Since no linking occurs (merely CORBA communication) there is no GPL violation, nor any need to re-license.
IAAL,BIANLY
I've been watching Evolution with interest, but not enough to install the development versions. Now that it has a stable, release version (no doubt for certain values of stable), I want to give it a spin. However, one thing I don't seem to be able to find on Ximian's site is whether Evolution works with the standard mbox format so I can continue to use Pine as well. Because it's often necessary for me to ssh into my desktop box to access mail from machines that don't have X installed, I must use Pine (or Mutt), whereas it would just be an optional perk for me to have a GUI mail client.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
HP OpenMail has been bought by Samsung. Apparently they are less intimidated by Microsoft.
No matter which mail client you use, you have to pay $70/user for an Exchange Client Access License. That license also lets you use Outlook.
So..to put a user on Exchange I must buy one of those. If I want to use Evolution I then have to pay them $70 for their connector. That's a grand total of $140/user to put on Exchange and have them use Ximian. If they used Outlook they would only spend $70/user for the CAL.
I'm not factoring in the OS cost in to this..sure, Linux is free and Windows isn't. I'm just talking mail clients and access.
You need the Client Access License (CAL) even if you use Evolution instead of Outlook. Microsoft charges you once for the server software and a second time for every client that connects to that server. You still need to pay both times even if your e-mail client is "free".
So for 5 users using Outlook and Exchange you pay $1000s for Exchange then $350 for CALs. If you change this over to Evolution then you STILL need to pay $1000s for Exchange then $350 for CALs, but now you ALSO need to pay $350 to Ximian for the Lucy Connector.
Microsoft effectively gives Outlook away for no-cost because you MUST pay for the CALs whether you use Outlook or not.
he called me a `user' !!!! he called me a `user' !?!?!?!
(Cally reaches for the etherkiller...)
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Use the search bar, luke.
You can search for multiple items and use boolean logic. like from: boss, subject: picnic. I know pine won't do that.
seriously, there's a search bar... you can search on any header or message content. ctrl-a, press ctrl+shift+M, select target foler, ok or just drag and drop into the folder list.
done
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
Putting my personal preferences aside, I think Evolution 1.0 + Exchange plugin is excellent news for pushing Linux on the corporate desktop. I've just installed Mandrake and it's just as easy to install as XP (which I did same day on another machine). The two can also be made to look identical. With an Outlook clone the jigsaw is more complete ($69 is nothing compared to OS and Exchange licenses). Add a decent Word import/export filter to Abiword, which appears identical to Word in use to me, and you then have a drop-in replacement for M$ in the workplace.
Also, I think a lot of techies will be able to swing the $69 by claiming they often do work from home on their Linux box.
On the note of installing Linux, why do none of them offer an automatic basic install? I normally want to install my OS and get that the way I want it before I start installing any applications I need. So why force me to choose packages when installing? Can we please have an option: do you want to install applications now? And if the answer is no just get on and install the basic desktop (plus browser). This goes for all distro; Mandrake, Red Hat, etc.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Problem is that the unix way with small applications sucks ass when you're trying to do your work in an intuitive way. Evolution offers a sensible, unified layout that's easy to work with.
Ideally, different applications could plug into Evo to provide the same functions as the native components - in this case, Evo's "specialized" function becomes a UI "unifier" or "integrator" shell for other components, which is consistent with the Unix philosophy while offering the advantages of a monolithic app.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Isn't there a Changelog somewhere? links please?
apt-get install evolution
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Is there *any* serious non-proprietary server-based calendar protocol in the world? If there is, I'd like to know about it. My mail sits on an IMAP server, my address book on an LDAP server, but my calendar gets clumsily spread around with synchronization...
I'm not convinced this is true. I think there's a fair amount of people thinking the way MS has presented things is intuitive, just because they've had to put up with it for so long. Never underestimate the power of familiarity. For example, I've had Windows users complain at me because they have to double click the top left button to close a window when using my machine, and "that's not intuitive". Never mind the fact that Windows used to work that way until Win95, and that the rest of the world has worked that way since the dawn of windowing systems. No one complained that it wasn't intuitive until Win95 appeared (even NeXT users didn't have a problem with it).
I don't think monolithic applications like Outlook (or Evolution, or Netscape or Emacs for that matter) are fundamentally better than small separate apps. There is definitely a case for having a single, consistent interface to present to the user, but that doesn't mean integrating everything into a single huge app. It would be far better to have an editor application that was called to compose a new message than having an integrated editor in Evolution. So long as that editor can be parented in any window the calling app chooses, the end user need never know it's a separate app. But it'll give them the flexibility to swap it out for something different, should they choose to do so (the biggest problem I have with virtually every GUI mail client I've tried is that I can't compose my messages in vi :-)
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown