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MS Zone Users Must Use Passport Accounts

Posted by timothy on from the start-your-own-instead dept.

pathos writes: "CNet reports in this article that Microsoft, in its continued obsession to get everyone and his/her mother to be a registered Passport user, forced all of it's MS Zone gaming site users (including players of 'Asheron's Call') to open accounts in Passport in order to keep using the service... too bad that a bug with their .NET deployment kept many users not being able to access the service..." Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool ...

25 of 451 comments (clear)

  1. Hotel pools by Shadowlion · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool...

    Yeah, but you can't control who pees in it.

    :)

  2. Wouldn't it be amusing if...? by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wouldn't be amusing if somebody registerred a generic account and released the name/password onto the public?

    Maybe when MS sees 4 million people logged on as $L4$hd0t it'll realize that the people don't want to be uniquely identified in EVERYTHING they do.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  3. Makes sense by jathos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate Microsoft as much as the next *nix guy, but this makes sense to me. If you're going to push a single account/password strategy, you need to implement it yourself first.

    If you are going to use Microsoft web services, you have to get used to .NET and Passport. For myself, I'll just continue to choose not to use any Microsoft web services.

  4. Re:Same as hotmail by Blackwulf · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why can't users just act the same as they do with Hotmail? Open up separate accounts for different uses, most with false information that can't be tied back to you without a search warrant?

    Probably because, in the case of Asheron's Call, they have to have credit card information to bill you with (or they want to use the Passport to bill you instead?) and they need your real information.

    For the free stuff, sure, I understand completely making a different account. But some Zone games are subscription based, so this solution won't work.

    Thank god I don't play any subscription-based Zone games. :>

  5. Maybe this is not so obvious... by --daz-- · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But the whole point of passport was to provide a single continous logon throughout the MSN suite of web sites.

    Why is Zone.com any different?

    1. Re:Maybe this is not so obvious... by SiliconJesus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Zone is different in that we still have our Zone names. Now I'm fortunate enough to have to remember one for the .Net Passport, one to associate my Zone name to it (once its associated, its just window dressing), and a different name for my Hotmail account. Through the beauty (ha!) of .net, I now have 4 passport logins, so that my hotmail / msn messanger account is in no way attached to my Asheron's Call account (which has a credit card connected to it) or my ISDN account (I used to be a M$ admin in a former life), or my regular Zone account. The beauty of it all is that NOONE can easily get into games - Again Microsuck underestimated the load that thousands of players would have on NT servers. Poor Microsuck. I'm writing them for a credit to my account. Bastages.

      --
      Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
  6. Business sense. by Matt2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Of course, it looks a little different if you consider things from a business perspective. If you're a company that has 7 different login and authentication systems for their wide array of services, and you could centralize that for cost savings, wouldn't you do it? I would.

    The problem with Microsoft is that later down the line someone will say "we should use this massive pile of user data we've got to get volunteers to test our new free brain implants."

    Not everything Microsoft does is evil, it's just usually the last thing that they do that turns everything they've done before evil.

    --

    1. Re:Business sense. by deebaine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have described the situation exactly. Lately, say over the past 12-18 months, Microsoft has made several decisions that I regard as outstanding business moves, reminiscent more of the vision of a PC on every desk than of the "what Internet" debacle.

      And not only is this a sensible business decision, but also I'd rather have one login and set of user data, all else being equal. Of course, all else is not equal. A single point of failure demands a level of planning, care, and skill that Microsoft does not have or has not demonstrated in the recent past.

      It is the track record of their implementations of ideas that makes me terribly nervous, not necessarily the ideas and decisions themselves.

      -db

  7. TOS? by ryanr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And if I violate the ToS for any Microsoft service, do I get my passport pulled so that I can no longer access my Hotmail account or anything else that requires it?

    1. Re:TOS? by Syberghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. This is why you have to make a decision:

      Either use Microsoft for EVERYTHING, or for NOTHING.

      There just isn't much of a middleground anymore. Either take the plunge, wipe Linux off your drives, and surrender all your data (personal and PC) to Microsoft, or don't use them for ANYTHING at all.

      Get rid of that Windows gaming partition, and just run Linux games. Or don't bitch when Microsoft bends you over like this. It's their service, you agreed to that when you signed up. Even if you signed up with Hotmail before Microsoft bought it, you still agreed to follow Hotmail's terms of service, including updates, and it's been updated.

      There are still pockets of things you can do with Microsoft software that don't suck you into the whole mess (such as using Windows 98 for those games), but eventually it's all going this way. Eventually you won't be able to run any of the new games on Win98, and you'll have to make the choice; and when it comes, it'll be a Microsoft product that requires Passport in order to function.

      Make your choice, and don't bitch if Microsoft changes the rules after you've agreed to a contract allowing them to. You're a free human being, you make your choices and you live with the consequences.

  8. Someday this will bite them in the ass. by Xenopax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know we've said this before, but whenever Passport allows access to everyone bank account and stock portfolio the Passport servers will the the target of every black-hat hacker on the planet. And you know that script kiddies will be blasting it constantly with DOS attacks.

    I'm sure MS will have excuses for why it happened to, like published security holes and such. But it will be their fault for leaving so much critical information linked to one account.

    -Xenopax

  9. Terms of Service by sterno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's a question for people to ponder. What happens if I violate the terms of service of Passport or any attached property of Microsoft? Or more to the point, what happens if Microsoft mistakenly thinks I did but I didn't (like if I was hacked, etc). It seems that as Passport is further extended, this has a greater and greater impact on my ability to do things on-line. What if my bank uses passport? What if I communicate with my doctor through a passport secured site? If I get booted from passport for whatever reason, there could be some serious personal ramifications, and there's noreal recourse for me because I clicked the little "I Accept" button.

    I grant you this is a little out there and paranoid, but I think that if passport does become a very fundamental part of on-line authorization systems, this could become a potential problem

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  10. Re:What's the big deal? by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I assume you have to have a "MS Zone" account to play the games, what's the big deal about having a passport account instead?
    It's a privacy thing. If you have a MS Zone account and you access some other site, that other site doesn't know who you are, let alone that you have a MS Zone account. Now, if you instead have a Passport in order to play at the MS Zone and go to that same other site, if they use Passport too then that other site not only knows who you are they know where you live and your phone number and your ISP and your credit card number(s) and any other info M$ has managed to collect about you. This may ease checkout at their online store, but if you're not there to buy anything why would you want them to know all this?

    It remindes me of Tandy's long-bankrupt Incredible Universe, which wouldn't let you in the the door without a credit check. Hmm, I wonder why they're no longer in business?

    --
    If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
  11. ROTFL... ahh, the cruel, cruel irony. by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the article:
    "It's a difficult task, but other companies have done it--Starbucks just switched their old log-in system to Passport and did it smoothly."

    "It's kind of surprising," Rosoff added. "If anyone should be able to implement a Passport switch, it's Microsoft."


    That is hilarious: The staffers at a coffee house that, no doubt, keep MS programmers in caffinated beverages, can implement MS's own stuff better than MS can.

    Ahaaahahaha.

    Do you think maybe we should send MS some penguin mints? Oh, wait, belay that...probably most here would consider that aid and comfort to the enemy.

    .

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  12. Re:This surprised people? by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There are some differences, as you're probably
    aware. :) First, the US Government doesn't own
    98% of all usable land. Now, if they did, and they
    insisted that some African goat-herder who has
    never even heard of the US be a US citizen in
    order to continue herding goats, you could expect
    a bit of a protest. Quite a bit of a protest.


    The point is not that Microsoft is doing something
    wrong, because they DO own the service and they DO
    therefore have a say on how it is used.


    The point is that they have monopoly control on
    the desktop, they have monopoly control on the
    browser market, and they are rapidly acquiring a
    monopoly on the online gaming industry. The
    leverage of a monopoly in ONE field to control
    another is illegal, never mind three!


    And therein lies the problem. The control is not
    at issue. It is the abuse of monopoly power in a
    seperate field, in order to gain that control,
    which is so often the problem. You are simply not
    permitted that kind of power, in the US. At least,
    in theory. It's not slowed Microsoft any, even
    though their actions have been declared illegal,
    by numerous courts, over monopoly abuse.


    (And here you were, thinking Monopoly was just a
    board game!)

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  13. Why is this under "Your Rights Online" by Quarters · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has nothing to do with rights. Well, it does, but it has to do with Microsoft's rights. They have a right to use whatever authentication system for their web pages that they choose.

    You, as the average internet consumer do not have a right to access some companies pages without using the access mechanism that they choose. You do have a right to not grace that company with your business, though.

    Really, can someone explain to me all of the mis-directed righteous indignation at Microsoft over this? It's a non-issue. If you don't like what MS has done with the Zone...tough. Just go play elsewhere.

    1. Re:Why is this under "Your Rights Online" by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Today, it's about playing M$ games or not. Big Deal, right?
      Someday you'll understand.
      It might be on Tax day, when you realize that you can "choose" to pay your taxes on line (for free, and get your return quickly) using Passport, or you can "choose" to pay the filing fee and wait six months for the return, but not use Passport.
      It might be on Election Day, when you can "choose" to vote electronically, from your desktop, and for the Incumbent Party using Passport, or you can "choose" to take time off from work, stand in line at the polling place (in the bad neighbor hood, in the rain) and vote anonymously for the party of your choice.
      It might be when you take your car in for an oil change, and "choose" to pay with your Passport-linked credit card, knowing full well that the next time you go on-line every pop-up add will tell you about the neat accessories available for your "2004 Dreadnought SUV" (except for tinted windows, 'cause you already got those) or how 'old' a car with 21,294.6 miles is...
      Perhaps Graduation day, when you realize that without a Passport, your shcool won't make a transcript available on-line to potential employers. Of course they can still request one by mail, but that may take up to six weeks, and the job offer may not wait that long...
      .
      That's what 'monopoly' means, really. It means a condition exists under which a choice which you would otherwise have (or expect to have) does not exist.
      Monopolies in themselves are not absolutely bad. In some cases they are naturally occuring, in others they are necessary and beneficial.
      But in cases where a company (which, by definition, exists only to make a profit for it's shareholders) can leverage a monopoly to their own benefit and in a way which could destroy the checks and balances we've carefully constructed in other areas, there is due cause to be concerned.
      And when that company has a history of abusing prior monopoly advantage, the cause for concern is even more justified.
      And when that company can exercise "root access" control of the computers we are expecting to be serving us and making decisions which should only consider the costs and benefits to us, and won't allow us to even look at the source code to verify that our personal information isn't being sent against our will, it becomes a critical concern.
      .
      Did you really think Microsoft would come right out and say "we're doing this to remain profitable, and we don't care how many other business we have to bankrupt to do it?" Of course not. This is just about games. It's always just about games, right up until it isnt.

      --

      The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

  14. Re:This surprised people? by talks_to_birds · · Score: 5, Funny
    • "...I hear you need to be a US Citizen to be able to vote in the US, too..."

    No. Wrong.

    You need a M$ Passport to vote in the United States...

    t_t_b

    --
    I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
  15. Stinks of a Monopoly by Erore · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I thought you weren't allowed to use a monopoly in one area to create a monopoly in another area?

    How is it that Microsoft is able to take it's monopoly in Office Suites and require you to create a Passport account in order to register them? Isn't that just creating a monopoly in online Registration?

    Once everyone has been forced to register their Office and Windows with Passport, why whould they bother to register with another service? It is just like bundling the browser, only this time they are bundling the online registration.

    It's crap of the highest order. It is even worse than the monopoly movie theatres have on food and drink. They state that you cannot bring in outside food or drink and make you pay extortionist prices for the crap that they do offer. It is not a free choice, in the sense that I went there for the movie, not food, but if I want food with my movie I have to pay out the whazoo. This would only be fair if I had the choice of brining in outside food and drink.

    Same thing for amusement park food pricing.

  16. Re:Same as hotmail by interiot · · Score: 5, Informative
    Are they really completely separate from the rest of your info?

    Basically, no... TOS:

    • XII. Disclosure of account information to third parties.

      As a part of establishing this Card account, you will receive with your Card a copy of the Bank of America Privacy Policy for Consumers, which generally addresses Bank of America's policy for handling and disclosing information. You may view this policy at www.bankofamerica.com/privacy. With respect to Your Card account, from time to time, subject to any applicable financial privacy laws or other laws or regulations, We may provide information about You and the Card account: (1) to Chex Systems, Inc. or other account information services; (2) to anyone who We reasonably believe is conducting a legitimate credit inquiry, including, without limitation, inquiries to verify the existence or condition of an account for a third party such as a lender, merchant or credit bureau; (3) in response to any subpoena, summons, court or administrative order, or other legal process which We believe requires Our compliance; (4) in connection with collection of indebtedness or to report losses incurred by Us; (5) in compliance with any agreement between Us and a professional, regulatory or disciplinary body; (6) in connection with potential sales of business; and (7) to carefully selected service providers who help Us meet Your needs by providing or offering Our services. In addition, if You or the Teen agree to provide an electronic mail address for purposes of receiving information regarding possible special merchant offers, We will consider that Your consent to provide that address to such merchants.

  17. This is scary... by Deltan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Being a former manager at the Zone, I can honestly say this is a scary concept. While I was there, we desperately tried to resist even becoming a part of MSN, alas the powers that be just wheeled the Zone like any other product and made us a part of MSN.

    Microsoft already tracks user information through the use of their Zone software. So much information, that it's almost like the Windows XP product activation. They ban users from their service based on a unique key generated by the Zone software that analyzes your hardware.

    Slap this in with the fact that you use a credit card to access Asheron's Call and other premium services, they've got a good start on a personal profile for you.

    They know what your system is made up of, they know your credit card number, they know your visiting habits, and if you use hotmail, they have your email by the proverbial balls. Short of owning your home, they own your online presence indefinitely. In the future if they integrate Passport with XBox, they'll be able to track your game habits, how many wins, losses even your game chats.

    Chalk one up to MS for squeaking this one in on the Zone. I bet they resisted it with their very last bit of will power.

  18. Pee patch by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 4, Funny

    Little do we know microsoft will soon be providing:

    POOL ex-pee

    To try and convince users there's no more pee in the pool. Once new hotel guests jump in, they'll realize why the water's still yellow.

    -Wrexsoul

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
  19. Rants and Rants by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Jerry Pournelle has a nice rant about his experience on his personal site (Semiblog/daybook) which is just too priceless to leave just there:
    Wednesday 12 December 2001

    Microsoft .NET Passport may not be a killer app, but it looks good to kill internet commerce.

    For a thoroughly frustrating and miserable experience, try logging on to Microsoft .NET Passport with a 28.8 dialup system. I have yet to manage it and I have wasted the better part of an hour in two half-hour attempts, one in the middle of the night, the other at about noon, PST.

    It takes many screens, and each screen is full of ads calling to another server; the result is interminable waits. If this is the future for Microsoft, that company is in REAL trouble.

    Five attempts to log on to Asheron's Call have yet to get me past the .NET passport login attempt, and only one of them got me that far. The rest is a tangle of page errors. My system is an XP Pentium IV so I doubt that it is my hardware that's at fault. Microsoft had better stick to something it understands, because as a consumer service company it really sucks.

    If there is anyone from Microsoft paying attention to this, I'd sure like some advice. HOW do you manage to work with this? Sometimes I get "cannot find server" errors. Other times it looks to find things, but all it returns is a blank page. Once, one glorious time, it offered to log me in! But then when I did, I got a 'cannot find server' error as a return. Earth calling Microsoft: if this is your idea of ecommerce, you would do better to invest in sanitary landfills.

    Now I have a login screen -- it says "done" at the bottom -- and the screen is entirely blank. It is clear that Asheron's Call is unplayable for me with my 28.8 dialup. I can't even manage to get to the .NET Passport login. Ah well. Thank you Microsoft.

    The problem here seems to be the Casino ads and another such things: they take so long to load that you never actually see the screen you are trying to load, and eventually it all times out. This is as stupid a design as I have ever seen. Thank you, Microsoft, for as miserable an hour as I have spent with the Web.

    Meanwhile Everquest may be working again. At least they try. But I think the Microsoft thing is unusable until I have fast enough connections that I can live with those stupid animated advertisements that Microsoft makes you endure just to get to the log-in (which I have yet to manage).

    [...]

    Still trying to get to Asheron's Call. When you click "PLAY" there is a 3 minute download, that often results in a page error. It is a very busy page but it wants you to connect to .NET Passport before you can start a ZONE.COM account. That never works. Each attempt takes several minutes, most of the time being spent waiting for animated ads to download from busy servers.

    Microsoft is clearly interested only in those with LOTS of bandwidth. No others need apply.

    Everquest, on the other hand, takes about 45 seconds to connect to the main server and about 3 minutes to get logged on, at 28.8, and plays quite well once there.

    So much for .NET

    [...] Eric says Microsoft just went to the .NET Passport business for their ZONE games, and things are really fouled up, but it ought to be temporary Fine. But with the satellite or without, I cannot manage to SIGN IN TO THE .NET so I cannot sign up for a zone passport so I cannot play Asheron's Call. I presume that applies to everyone else trying to get into the game. Those who previously were set up apparently can mange. The rest of us can wait for Microsoft to get its act together.

    They had something working, so they decided to fix it. Brilliant of them. One day they will get it fixed, but my confidence in .NET has been reset to VERY LOW. If they can't manage games, why would I believe they can make things easy for software developers? Can't find the login servers. Well, well, well.

    And some of the mail he has received is not much better.
    Microsoft woes: Seems to be yet another application of Sturgeon's Law and Hanlon's Razor. I doubt there are people sitting in Redmond going "how can we lose more customers today?" :)

    http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Sturg eon's-Law.html
    http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Hanlo n's-Razor.html

    [...]

    Subject: Passport.

    "Microsoft .NET Passport may not be a killer app, but it looks good to kill internet commerce."

    Currently Passport cannot talk to me. I have had a particular primary email address for three years. Sometime in those three years, I set up a passport account tied to it, but obviously no longer remember my password. Microsoft cannot reset the account and reissue a new password to that address. They cannot set up a new passport account because they only allow one account tied to a particular email address. Their only suggestion was that I ditch my long-standing email account and create a new hotmail for the purposes of talking to passport. I don't *WANT* a new email address. I've had three email addresses in twelve years and I like to present stability in the internet maelstrom.

    Until Passport comes up with a WORKING way to reset a password on an account, or to build a new account at an email address that they've already heard of, I cannot use them for any internet commerce.

    It is impossible to ascribe any of this to malice, but can anyone be this incompetent?

    Of Course. this is not a bug, but a feature.

    Reminds me of websites I have found that were optimized for 1600x1200 resolution.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  20. Unsubscribing from MS mailing lists by Joao · · Score: 5, Funny

    I had to register several copies of MS software for my office some time ago, and since then I've been receiving a whole lot of newsletters from them. So I followed their instructions on how to unsubscribe, and went to http://www.microsoft.com/info/unsubscribe.htm

    Guess what? In order to unsubscribe from their spam, I need to sign up for Passport.

    So I set up a procmail filter.

  21. I've tried to get an account with mozilla... by PineGreen · · Score: 4, Informative

    only to be told:


    Unfortunately, Microsoft® .NET Passport does not support the Web browsing software you are using. Please use supported browsing software such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later, or Netscape Navigator versions 4.08-4.82.

    If you use Netscape Navigator 6.1: due to possible data security issues, you cannot currently access .NET Passport using Netscape Navigator 6.1. We take security seriously and are working with Netscape to resolve these issues as soon as possible so that .NET Passport can support Netscape Navigator 6.1. Until that time, please use supported browsing software. We apologize for this inconvenience and thank you for your patience.


    Quite amazing.