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Cassini Probe Has Camera Problems

Posted by chrisd on from the chris-knight-school-of-optics-clarity dept.

xX_sticky_Xx writes "The BBC is reporting that the last billion dollar NASA probe, Cassini, (enroute to Saturn) is suffering from an unknown source of contamination on its narrow field camera. NASA has attempted to alleviate the contamination, which is causing a haze to appear around images, by "defrosting" it, with so far limited success. Another attempt will be made in January. If this problem can't be resolved this will be extremely disappointing. Cassini is set to expand our knowledge of Saturn more than Galileo did for Jupiter."

142 comments

  1. Screwed by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

    by the two minute rule.

    1. Re:Screwed by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

      I'll be damned. In celebration of this unexpected first post blessing, I'm going to go jack off into the salvation army donation box.

    2. Re:Screwed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Your strange man. Go see a shrink!

    3. Re:Screwed by I.T.R.A.R.K. · · Score: 0, Funny
      And I will be hiding inside the Salvation Army donation box awaiting your bountiful harvest!

      - I throw rocks at retarded kids

      --

      "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."

    4. Re:Screwed by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

      I am a shrink! We are useless.

    5. Re:Screwed by Clint+Trollwood · · Score: -1

      AHAHAH!

      I would mod you up if I actually had some fucking points!

    6. Re:Screwed by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      And if the strange man in the Santa suit asks you to "ring his bell" for him, he's not talking about what you think he is. Run like hell!

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

  2. Bet it's metrics again... by klocwerk · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    How freakin hard is it to use one measurement standard?

    ____
    fp... ;o)

    --

    "You worthless post!"
    -Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
    1. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by syrinx · · Score: 1

      right, they measured the lens in inches, but the windshield wiper in centimeters, so it's too small to wipe everything off.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    2. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by Junta · · Score: 0

      Don't think using a standard of measurement is going to prevent gunk getting on the lens...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Everybody knows that gunk sticks to the metric system. Just look at Europe.

    4. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is slashdot, anything can be insightful and true, its kind of like magic.

    5. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      You ma'am, are a fucking retard. You win nothing, you lose, good day ma'am.

    6. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      I get inches and centimeters confused when I describe my member to the ladies.

    7. Re:Bet it's metrics again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Tha Partagaasa wara tha farst Earapaan sattlars ta arrava an tha araa, lad ba advantaraas Padra Cabral, wha bagan tha calanaal paraad an 1500. Tha
      Partagaasa rapartadla faand natava Indaans ambarang araand savan mallaan. Mast trabas wara parapatatac, wath anla lamatad agracaltara and tamparara dwallangs, althaagh vallagas aftan had as mana as 5000 anhabatants. Caltaral lafa appaars ta hava baan rachla davalapad, althaagh bath trabal warfara and cannabalasm wara abaqaataas. Tha faw ramaanang tracas af Brazal's Indaan trabas ravaal lattla af thaar lafastala, anlaka tha avadanca fram athar Andaan trabas. Tadaa, fawar than 200,000 af Brazal's andaganaas paapla sarvava, mast af wham anhabat tha jangla araas.

  3. Its that darn dark matter by Stripsurge · · Score: 0

    Its always sticking its nose where it doesn't belong

    1. Re:Its that darn dark matter by 4mn0t1337 · · Score: 1

      Hmmmm....

      Are you sure it isn't little green fingerprints on the lens? ;)

      --

      ______
      Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.

  4. Real Genius by ElGringo · · Score: 0

    Remember always clean your optics

    1. Re:Real Genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope they didn't get the lense from the same folks (Perkin-Elmer) that made the mirror for the Hubble.

  5. asdf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    first post!

    1. Re:asdf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      4th post actually.

  6. Redundancy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    They should have used a Beowulf cluster.

    Thank you.

    1. Re:Redundancy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      What's a Beowulf cluster?

  7. It's really simple, actually... by Halcyon711 · · Score: 1

    just take off the glass lens, and use the bottom part of your t-shirt to clean it off!

    of course, putting 100,000 miles between the two of them could cause a problem...

    1. Re:It's really simple, actually... by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

      Since you came up with the idea, we are gonna strap you to a rocket and let you take care of it.

      Love,
      NASA

    2. Re:It's really simple, actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another example of poor mission planning. A t-shirt should be mandatory on any expedition involving optical gear.

      Sheesh, you send 'em to school and they eat the books.

  8. What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    I was probing Taco's mother with my 10" interplanetary probe tonight, and we had camera problems, too!

  9. What kind of contamination are we talking? by boopus · · Score: 1

    I read the article, but it wasn't too clear what exactly would be. There isn't much in the way of dust for the thing to run into I would think. There isn't water to condense on the lense either. Would this be dust that the probe has brought along with it for the ride that happened to settle on the wrong part?

    1. Re:What kind of contamination are we talking? by klocwerk · · Score: 1

      Would this be dust that the probe has brought along with it for the ride that happened to settle on the wrong part?

      dust doesn't really settle in zero G...

      --

      "You worthless post!"
      -Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
    2. Re:What kind of contamination are we talking? by km00re · · Score: 1

      You're assuming the contamination is on the outside of the lens. It could be some component within the camera "off gassing" and forming sludge on the inner lens surface.

      --


      KM
    3. Re:What kind of contamination are we talking? by EccentricAnomaly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't agree with the BBC's claim that this is a "major" problem... the narrow angle camera still works - the contaminent just effectively reduces the resolution of the NAC. But from what I understand, the NAC resolution is nominally very, very high and even with the contamination it still will produce amazing pictures.

      As far as what the contaminent is... the best guess so far is that it is outgassing from some part of the spacecraft... probably the camera. Something got heated up, vaporized and then condensed on the lens (either the inside or the outside of the lens). When they see if the stuff cooks off and what temperature it cooks off at, they'll have a better idea where the contaminent came from.

      Cassini has already had larger problems (the reaction wheel last December, and the probe relay problem) that have been overcome and Cassini is still on track to make all of its mission objectives and then some. This problem is minor by comparison and will probably be fixed.

      Cassini was launched in 1997, and arrives at Saturn in 2004... seven years later. Then its primary mission ends 4 years after that... and it is hoped Cassini can fly a 4 year extended mission after that... So this spacecraft will fly 15 years in deep space without any possibility of any repairs more sophisticated than commanding a motor back and forth to jiggle something loose or turning on a part to heat it up. Things are bound to break... hopefully, these things will be small and not cause the spacecraft to blow up when it turns on its engines the next time.... we all want to see the pictures of the pterodactyls flying on Titan, don't we?

      --
      There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
  10. space dust? by moniker_21 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Worryingly, the origin of the contamination is unknown

    What about plain old space dust? According to this article there's enough of it out there to hamper astronomists when viewing celestial objects from earth. More closer to the point this article describes how people involved in space exploration are concerned with peices of space dust, too small to be tracked, causing serious damage to orbiting satelites. The Cassini article says they're pretty sure that it's related to the deep cold of space, which is why they equipped it with heaters. But if it's not related to the cold, it's not out of the realm of posibility that maybe Cassini simply encountered some of this dust? Although you'd have to think the makers of the satelite thought of this already, but who knows.
    --
    I posted to /. and all I got was this stupid sig
    1. Re:space dust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      In short, no. When you hit dust at 10 km/s, it doesn't "contaminate", it drills holes.

    2. Re:space dust? by cascino · · Score: 2

      What about plain old space dust? According to this [nasa.gov] article there's enough of it out there to hamper astronomists when viewing celestial objects from earth. More closer to the point this [spacedaily.com] article describes how people involved in space exploration are concerned with peices of space dust, too small to be tracked, causing serious damage to orbiting satelites.
      First of all, the stuff in orbit that's hampering astronauts is not "space dust", in the astronomy sense of the term. It's simply "space junk" - i.e. leftovers from stuff we've created.
      And while it's very true that clouds of space dust proper can create enormous blind spots for Earth-based astronomers, on a human level, it's actually quite sparse. Something on the order of one-part-per-million (billion?). As my astro professor put it, one single particle of dust per that many parts is equivalent to a single tennis ball in the state of Missouri. It's simply that sparse, and that's why only lightyears of it will have any noticeable effect on visibility.
      Yes, there are variations from location to location, but in general, space dust is simply not dense enough to cause this particular problem.

    3. Re:space dust? by chickenmilkbomb · · Score: 1

      I'll tell you who did it. It's that damn sasquatch.

      --
      He hates these cans!!!
    4. Re:space dust? by DGolden · · Score: 2

      It's easy to visualise 1-in-a-million if you think of a 1 metre cubed volume, and imagine a 1 centimetre cubed sugar cube in it. This brings 1-in-a-million into distinctly human-sized terms. 1-in-a-billion* is easily visualised as a 1-millimeter cube of dirt in a 1 metre volume of space. Using Volumes rather than lengths or areas to visualise "large" numbers brings them to comprehensible scales - Think of filling a medium sized cupboard with sugar cubes for an approximation to one million....

      * 1000-million == 1000 000 000 == 1 "amercian" billion. Note that most British people now pretty much exclusively use the american definition of a billion (many people will still tell you that the British Billion is a million million, but if a British person says a billion, he now tends to mean an american billion, just to confuse you).

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
    5. Re:space dust? by Paraflyer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it actually could be space dust.

      I seem to remember one of the Apollo missions (8 or 9, not certain which) had reported a problem during lunar insertion...pilot reported that the window was "foggin up".

      Turns out that NASA had plotted their course through one of the moon's Lagrange points (a more-or -less natural "parking space" for dust), and the "fogging" was the window being sandblasted!

      I know, I'm showing my age here...

  11. Wipers? by mberman · · Score: 1, Funny

    Maybe it's time to start intalling windshield wipers on spacecraft?

    --

    This is a self-referential sig

    1. Re:Wipers? by xinit · · Score: 2, Funny
      Unfortunately, that was an optional feature and they opted not to install the wipers at the factory, planning to get an after market add-on.

      See, the factory version would have added $5.7 million to the before tax cost, and this guy on the project knew a guy whose brother found the exact same component at a flea market for $10. NASA's trying to come in closer to budget now, after all, so...

      --
      --- http://foo.ca
  12. What else could it run in to? by pres · · Score: 1
    I mean, given the size of space and all, the amount of dust it has passed through is probably negligable, let alone what could have stuck to the camera. I can't imagine it is anything other then frost and judging by the fact that the warming did help, it seems that is really the most likely answer.


    I would only begin to worry if heating it a few more times doesn't clear it up totally.

    1. Re:What else could it run in to? by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 1
      I mean, given the size of space and all, the amount of dust it has passed through is probably negligable, let alone what could have stuck to the camera...

      Shuttles get hit by stuff all the time. Cassini has gone a lot further, and is going a lot faster. It has occupied a couple of trillion cubic meters so far, and that's a lot of space. Ample opportunity to hit dust particles.

      At interplanetary space speeds, a grain of sand is a serious collision. 15 to 20 times the speed of a rifle bullet. Ouch!

      ...laura

    2. Re:What else could it run in to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the frost"

      of course you DO realize that HUMIDITTY is kinda HARD to find in EMPTY SPACE, right?

  13. The man behind the name by moniker_21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So after reading the article (I know, rare for a slashdotter) I started wondering who they named the probe after. Turns out they named it after a 17th century astronomer who was the first to observe Saturn's four moons.

    Some more info on the man behind the name of the probe can be found here.

    --
    I posted to /. and all I got was this stupid sig
  14. Last Cassini report (12/12) indicated normal. by snStarter · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is from the report sent out:

    Cassini Weekly Significant Eventsfor 12/06/01 - 12/12/01The most recent spacecraft telemetry was acquired from the Goldstonetracking station on Wednesday, December 12. The Cassini spacecraft is in anexcellent state of health and is operating normally. "Present Position" webpage, http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/english/where/ .Recent instrument activities included two Radio and Plasma Wave Science HighFrequency Receiver calibrations. Engineering activities taking place onboardthe spacecraft this week include an Attitude Control Subsystem high-watermark clear and the uplink of the Mission Sequence Subsystem (MSS) D7.6.1Modules.

    1. Re:Last Cassini report (12/12) indicated normal. by klocwerk · · Score: 1

      The BBC article is from the 15th and says that this is a very recent development. And that also sounds like general health, not picture quality.
      Not sure this applies to the current problem.

      --

      "You worthless post!"
      -Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
  15. My bad. by andrei+sama · · Score: 1

    When I was 6, my mom bought this balloon for me. I accidentally let it go and it went higher and higher, never to be seen again.

    Sorry NASA.

    --

    ---------
    Sometimes there's no other way to win, except by falling.

  16. Let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    The worst terrorist attack in recorded history occurred three months ago, and now we're involved in a WAR and you people have the gall to be discussing that the last billion dollar NASA probe, Cassini, is suffering from an unknown source of contamination on its narrow field camera???? My *god*, people, GET SOME PRIORITIES!

    The bodies of the thousands of innocent civilians who died (and will die) in these unprecedented events could give a good god damn that the last billion dollar NASA probe, Cassini, is suffering from an unknown source of contamination on its narrow field camera, your childish Lego models, your nerf toy guns and whining about the lack of a "fun" workplace, your Everquest/Diablo/D&D fixation, the latest Cowboy Bebop rerun, or any of the other ways you are "getting on with your life" (here's a hint: watching Cowboy Bebop in your jammies and eating a bowl of Shreddies is *not* "getting on with your life"). The souls of the victims are watching in horror as you people squander your finite, precious time on this earth playing video games!

    You people disgust me!

    1. Re:Let me get this straight... by rafemonkey · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Crap you're right... we should be devoting our every thought and action to the events of Sep. 11... not wondering about silly old science... or civil liberties... or even reading web pages... hey wait a minute... what are you doing here?!?! get off line and go do something patriotic with your day!

    2. Re:Let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      The couch potatoes of the world have entropy on their side. You can't win!

  17. Man that sucks... by bteeter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After all the risks that were taken to put this thing in space - it would be a shame for it to go to waste. (Risk = putting 75 LBS of plutonium within a few miles of crashing down onto the earth.)

    NASA is having a rough time with it lately. There have been a lot of pretty expensive and embarasing failures. If NASA were a private enterprise I'd suspect a management shakeup. Since it is a government body - I'm not sure what can be done. Clearly something should be done...

    Take care,

    Brian
    --
    We are almost out of Free Palm m100's...
    --

    1. Re:Man that sucks... by BTWR · · Score: 1

      Do we have to hear MORE of these people??? Geez, as if caring about an INTERNATIONAL Spacecraft such as Cassini (the probe which will go to the moon Titan was made by the European Space Agency) makes us forget the terrorist attacks. What Flamebait... Anyway, that probe's had problems too, but they fixed it.

    2. Re:Man that sucks... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 2
      If NASA were a private enterprise I'd suspect a management shakeup.

      There is a "management shakeup" occurring right now. Daniel Goldin, the longtime administrator of NASA, has retired (see what he's up to and his new computers at the L.A. Times Celebrity Setup).

      Dr. Daniel Mulville is the current Acting Administrator while Sean O'Keefe is waiting for confirmation.

    3. Re:Man that sucks... by nukebuddy · · Score: 1

      bteeter wrote:
      After all the risks that were taken to put this thing in space - it would be a shame for it to go to waste. (Risk = putting 75 LBS of plutonium

      What would you quantify the risks as?

      -Chris

  18. Cassini and Jupiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Cassini isn't a total failure, though. Wow, take a look at this amazing photo of Jupiter's big red spot!

    1. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

      Breathtaking.

    2. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Great. Now the bracketed information [yahoo.com] is both annoying and inaccurate.

    3. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      Gord damn it. I've been poasting these links for days, some unwashed A.C. drags himself over here and copies me, and he gets the credit for it. Fuckin' fucker.

      I'll see you in hell, anonymous coward! You and your 20,000 clones!

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

    4. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
      WIPO,

      That wasn't really an AC, it was me, The_Messenger. FWIW, you weren't the first to post the Yahoo! link, and there are other websites that offer similar trolling facilities. You were one of the first, WIPO, but your problem is that you post at -1. If you actually want people to see your work, post AC. :-) Posting at -1 may mean that you can't be modded down, but it also means that no one will see your post except fellow trolls browsing at -1. That's fine if you're posting an amusing story or ASCII art, but if you want to annoy Slashdotters, you have to post where they can see you. Try reposting your old Yahoo!-link trolls AC and watch the flames pour in!

      I'm sorry if you feel slighted, WIPO. Tell you what: I'll transfer the negative pseudo-karma into your virtual trolling account, okay? (God knows that I've enough. I recently resurrected one of my old aliases and have been sucking up negative moderation for the past week...)

      Keep up the good work!

      -- The_Messenger (Who often omits his signature in an effort to post early! :-)

    5. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

      You need to throw a little more padding in there, anyways. I could see the tell-tale "*" in the status bar of the world's #1 browser, IE. Though, I suppose anyone who knows about the * and (s)rd.yahoo.com isn't gonna bite in the first place. I bit, but that is because I love that man's bowels.

    6. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      What I should do is break out my three dozen or so other virgin (+1) accounts and start using them up. :)

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

    7. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      lol
      A conversation between trolls is a lot more interesting than the f*cking topics.
      I'm sure /. will be dead when you leave.

    8. Re:Cassini and Jupiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Th Prtgs wr th frst Erpan sttlrs t arrv n th ara, ld
      b advntrs Pdr Cabral, wh bgan th clnal prd n 1500. Th
      Prtgs rprtdl fnd natv Indans nmbrng arnd svn mlln.
      Mst trbs wr prpattc, wth nl lmtd agrcltr and tmprar
      dwllngs, althgh vllags ftn had as man as 5000 nhabtants.
      Cltral lf appars t hav bn rchl dvlpd, althgh bth trbal
      warfar and cannbalsm wr bqts. Th fw rmanng tracs f
      Brazl's Indan trbs rval lttl f thr lfstl, nlk th
      vdnc frm thr Andan trbs. Tda, fwr than 200,000 f Brazl's
      ndgns ppl srvv, mst f whm nhabt th jngl aras.

      SEMI4 MADNES 2 de MAXXX
      what is missing from this post, slashdot geniuses? CAN YOU GUESS!@!@#(R)@UJdsjklfldfkghdgsdfkjghsfkgjsdhflgj

  19. I`m Afraid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I`m afraid that the man who ground Hubble`s mirror was moved sideways into the space probe lense optics department. Doh !!

  20. Lens cap... by arsaspe · · Score: 5, Funny

    In news today, Nasa scientists spent all last week trying to find the source of the contaminant on the Lens. After many hours of brainstorming, one of the engineers spilt coffee on a button labeled "Lens Cap". Shortly after, the camera apeared to be functioning correctly. Head NASA Scientists are trying to work out the function of this "Lens Cap" button, but the British designer of the button cannot be contacted, and Nasa officials are still unsure what has happened.

    1. Re:Lens cap... by bfuutctk · · Score: 2, Funny

      roflmao.

      The function of the "Lens Cap" button has now been determined by Nasa officials. It appears to be an emergency overide to remove the Lens protection device in the event of a failure to remove it automaticly. When asked why the Cover failed to be removed in the first place, the Nasa spokesperson told us that instead of making the cover 6" wide, the manufacturing company made the cover 6cm wide instead, and it was a very tight fit.

    2. Re:Lens cap... by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      In related news, a rather large "lens cap" has been inserted into the ass of this gentleman, and the forcibly removed, resulting in a most bizarre injury. The man, simply known as "Mr. Goat Sex," refused to give comment.

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

    3. Re:Lens cap... by SilentChris · · Score: 2

      In addition, the lens were set to 33 mm instead of 35. Damn BetaMax...

    4. Re:Lens cap... by Feng · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Slightly offtopic but there have been cases of space probes having lens cap problems. In the 70's a Russian probe (Venera, IIRC) landed on Venus and returned photos of complete darkness. In the end it was determined that its lens cap melted on to the camera.

      A subsequent Venera had an improved lens cap which popped off on landing. The funny part is the lens cap landed in front of the probe, where a spring loaded arm called a "penetrometer" was supposed to spring out from the probe and sample the soil around it...

      ...You guessed it. The penetrometer ended up sampling the lens cap which was lying where the arm was supposed to plunge in.

      --


      --- if y cn rd ths y cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng!
  21. January's too soon... by Carl+Jacobsen · · Score: 3, Funny

    it'll still be winter -- if we waited 'til spring and maybe it'd thaw out on its own.

    1. Re:January's too soon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but it's summer in the southern hemisphere. Maybe if Nasa temporarily moved to Australia, the probe will magically start working...?

  22. Good old American engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    NASA builds crap, launches it... again.

    I can hardly wait till they start sending people to Mars :P

    1. Re:Good old American engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can send the enviromentalists to Mars.
      After all they want to stop global warming!

    2. Re:Good old American engineering by SlamMan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Lets see you send sometihng that size into space, let alone have it actually work at all. If it was actually easy, it would be done.

      --
      Mod point free since 2001
    3. Re:Good old American engineering by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      Maybe we Americans should launch some of that crap right up your commie ass. Make you look like our national hero.

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

    4. Re:Good old American engineering by JoeRobe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Normally I'd laugh at that, but I do need to point out some technicalities. First, "crap" is a relative term. Yeah, if Dell tried to sell computers that worked as frequently (or infrequently) as NASA probes, it'd be out of business. Then again, Dell, Intel, AMD, Western Digital, et al all have the chance of trying their machinery out in real-life situations before putting it out on store shelves. How fortunate for them, but NASA doesn't have this luxury. Take a look at lunar missions starting in the early-to-mid sixties - see how many craft NASA shot up, and how many MORE Russia pumped up there. Then look at how many succeeded - you'll see a difference in approach right there. Russian mentality: keep trying, and if it drops out of the sky or flys by the moon or crashes, try it again! Just keep trying, and eventually you'll get one to work. NASA, on the other hand, has the opposite approach - make like the first shot is the only shot. Try to make sure it works as best as it can, then send it up. Maybe this is a result of a much more nosey press in America, or maybe its just the way Americans work.
      The spacecraft up there are the pinnacle of technological achievement. Go to http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/ , Deep Space 1's webpage and read about this amazing spacecraft if you don't believe me. Just to cut some people off right now - yes, the cpu's aboard these spacecraft are exceedingly slow (I'm talking PI or slower), but they are doing things longer and more continuously than any desktop here on Earth. Finally, if you want to see a spacecraft that has lasted longer than most of our cars, and acquired a lot more data, see Galileo's latest stat, as it's in its third extended mission and still going stronger than ever: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/

      Just my thoughts,

      JoeRobe

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
    5. Re:Good old American engineering by nusuth · · Score: 2
      You are dead wrong about 50ties and 60ties russian mentality. Soviet space program was planned in advance to establish orbital stations and lunar bases, while state's program was not planned at all. It was (and still is, to some extend) planned around single missions, with no vision of future direction. Alas, soviet engineering was inferior, and they failed. What did communist pary care abou future directions, they were after probaganda! Failing to be a good tool for probaganda, soviet space program lost support. 70ies and 80ties soviet space program was quite like states', lacking vision of any kind.

      For individual crafts, you are correct that soviets didn't care to lose one. But that was not a difference in engineering mentality, that was a (good) side effect of not having to disclose failures to public. So they could launch and learn, instead of going thru cumbersome process of checking and rechecking and then some more checking. Would you really care if you send ten times more probes to each target and have five times more failures? I thing it is sensible for unmanned missions.

      --

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

    6. Re:Good old American engineering by JoeRobe · · Score: 1

      "You are dead wrong about 50ties and 60ties russian mentality"

      Well, I get this idea of Russian space mentality from several (Russian) friends that followed Russia's space program during the 60's. In any case, I said that the mentality was "keep trying until one works." I didn't say that they had no direction, just that they had a different mentality while going in that direction. They could certainly have had it all planned out, but how they got there was different from the way that NASA would have done it.
      Look at the numbers, the Soviets had far more failures in considerably more attempts, especially in the lunar lander department. I agree with you that this "not caring if you lose a craft" mentality is probably a result of not having to disclose failures to the public. But I think it's a mentality nonetheless, and it's one that the "states" did not have. Maybe it's just our definition of mentality that's different - it sounds like I'm calling "mentality" what you would call "technique".
      In any case, I agree that only recently (until the early 90's) has NASA shown any real planning for the future.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
  23. probably outgassing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    when you take something from earth pressure to zero pressure you'd be surprised at what will boil off. this is called outgassing, as polymers, etc... lose mass to vapor. the stuff outgassed can then condense on your optics and ruin your pictures. The usual practice is to put everything in a vacuum chamber and get it all out before flight, but this won't always be enough. Also, you can coat surfaces that will outgass, but you need to use anyway (such as electronics circuit boards) with a non-outgassing coating (such as uralane). If some electronics overheat and melt away some of that coating, the materials underneath might, you guessed it, outgass. It is a difficult problem to avoid and it is unfortunate that it might ruin the mission. hopefully not.

  24. something really needs to be done by mj6798 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This just keeps happening--the Vogon interstellar starliners keep illegally flushing their toilets into space in the vicinity of solar systems. I think we should file a complaint with the local authorities on Alpha Centauri.

    1. Re:something really needs to be done by boopus · · Score: 1

      I hope the Vogons stick with contstruction instead of moving into the passenger transportation field. A starliner run by Vogons would be worse todays airlines...

  25. asdfasdfs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    http://rd.yahoo.com/M=breaking_news/h/ap/20011215/ ts/bin_laden_killed_01.html

    1. Re:asdfasdfs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Your link is bad! Try this.

  26. Taco-snotter has snot problems by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1
    THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ By The WIPO Troll, $Revision: 1.13 $

    Why have I been receiving emails from some guy called "CmdrTaco," in which he seems to be speaking in some kind of code language?

    You have been receiving email from a certain Robert "CmdrTaco" Malda, owner of the popular technology website Slashdot. Actually, it's not a very "popular" site in the common sense of the word; the site is rife with pimply, antisocial geeks, zit-faced nerds, dirty GNU hippies and communists, and other societal rejects. It's also home to the world's most infamous pædophile ring, the "Slashdot crew."
    Whenever CmdrTaco gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy engaging in homosexual orgies with him. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, or a nick with the letter P or E in it, you're in trouble.
    And this time, he found you. Lucky you.
    CmdrTaco's code language is relatively easy to decipher. He prefers to speak in thinly-veiled sexual innuendo to evade the watchful (but relatively stupid) eye of Slashdot's parent corporation, VA Software. CmdrTaco's "Commander" is, of course, his penis -- a small, withered little thing that lives in his pants and only comes out in the presence of other male geeks or at the beck and call of CmdrTaco's own lubed-up right hand. His "Taco bells" are the shriveled testicles that droop beneath his Commander, and his "Taco sauce" is his thick, gooey semen. It should be more than obvious to you now what he means if he asked you to "ring his Taco bells" or "taste his gourmet Taco sauce."
    Lastly, there is the practice he refers to as "Taco-snotting" and the more revolting "circle-snot."

    Good Lord. What is "Taco-snotting?"

    "Taco-snotting" is the term used by CmdrTaco to refer to an act of fellating a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco is rumoured to prefer rape), then blowing the semen out his nose onto the face and body of his partner or victim. Naturally, a long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose and down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."
    A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among the Slashdot crew. CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel, and Homos get together and snot each other with their gooey, sticky cum -- spooging their jizz-snot all over each other's faces and pasty, white bodies, until they're covered head to toe with their own and each other's man juice. This vile ritual can go on for hours. For the homosexual penetration that follows this lengthy foreplay, Roblowme is usually there to provide plenty of anal lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease ready to go.
    To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie will usually join in, dressed in tight leather mock-S.S. uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pale, white geek bodies are exhausted and soaked in stinking sweat from the hours of passionate, homosexual revelry.

    Ewwwwww. So, can I stop receiving these emails?

    Hopefully.
    You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

    I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

    If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, you will most likely end up tied up in his basement to be used as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

    Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

    Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an Open Source Convention. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake and some "gourmet Tacos," but when I got there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered thing six times. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm... then he snotted my own milky-white jizz back onto my face, into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.
    CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) buddies over to continue the twisted snotfest. Linux Torvalds raped my ass with his "monolithic kernel," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my defenseless body. Michael was there in his leather Nazi uniform, caning my ass with a bamboo pole and ranting about "all those Censorware freaks out to get him."
    How did you finally escape, you ask? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

    That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

    No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):
    You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.
    After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.
    Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

    Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a pædophile, not a homosexual.

    Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual pædophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called " Katz juicy-douching" with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. If he's in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag and just squirt it from his ass onto his boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.
    As I already said, Mr. Katz is also a zophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

    ...Are you getting hard writing this?

    Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot?

    No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

    ________________________________________ RECENT READER COMMENTS

    Once comments have been archived by Slashdot, they're removed from the Official Taco-Snotting FAQ. However much I would like to paste 200k crapfloods into Slashdot, my browser is a piece of shit and won't let me!

    1. Re:Taco-Powered Christmas Snot (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.15 7:05 (#2707493)

      Has this been submitted to linuxdoc.org yet?

    2. Re:Bye bye Windows! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.15 5:12 (#2707245)

      That may be true, but have you made love to a wombat today?

    3. Re:That's my department, boy! (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward (actually afree87) on 2001.12.15 2:51 (#2706921)

      Wow, WipoTroll, you really know how to snot! And you can scramble Slashdot's HTML, too! I love boys who do that! Come over to my place sometime!

    4. Re:CmdrTaco BANNED FOR LIFE from Taco Bell!!!!!! (Score:-1) by WeatherTroll on 2001.12.15 2:48 (#2706907)

      CmdrTaco only goes to Taco Bell to get their hot sauce, and to solicit hot sauce enemas from underage male employees. He makes his own tacos.

    5. Re:Snottle OSnotX, BSnotD, and Snottan Snottard (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward (actually afree87) on 2001.12.15 2:47 (#2706900)

      We love you, WipoTroll! We want you to snot us, WipoTroll!

    6. Re:Bye bye Windows! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.15 1:35 (#2706675)

      I want some Taco-snot! Where can I get some?

    7. Re:Bye bye Windows! (Score:-1) by JonKatz on on 2001.12.15 0:29 (#2706495)

      Please, please, please Taco-snot me. I know I would love it almost as much as fucking young boys. Pleadingly, JonKatz

    8. Important Information For Slashdot Users (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.14 3:09 (#2702660)

      It has recently come to my attention that the entire Slashdot crew engage in homosexual activities. CmdrTaco is one such person, and has dedicated his life to spreading the ideals of Taco-Snotting while enjoying the benefits of it. For further information on Taco-Snotting please refer to George WIPO Bush's Taco-Snotting FAQ which can be easily found by searching for the Slashdot journal of George WIPO Bush or by looking in the comments of Slashdot articles (Usually modded -1).

      It has also come to my attention that CmdrTaco has other interests besides homosexuality (Believe it or not). One such interest includes a budding music career with a song titled "Gaping Anus". The details are sketchy on this topic but I do know that besides the lead vocals of CmdrTaco, it includes Timothy and CowboyNeal (Also members of the Slashdot crew). There has been no release date set for this album or which record label it will be produced under. I believe CmdrTaco is planning to set up his own label, Taco-Snotting Records, with the intention of releasing the song on a cd-single with various remixes as soon as possible (To catch the current popularity of the Taco-Snotting fad). On a side note, I would not believe this fad will ever wear out (like a Snotted-out-geek); I am sorry to say Taco-Snotting is here to stay :-(. Various remixes of Gaping Anus will include: "Extra Jizz", "Snot Me Baby One More Time", "www.Goatse.cx", and "Once You Taco-Snot, You Can't Stop". I am sure many, many, more are sure to come. I predict this album will be a very hot seller this holiday season, especially with in or out of closet homosexuals, and with those who have no self-respect (Readers of Slashdot).

      Through a good, non-homosexual friend of mine, I have recieved a copy of the lyrics to the Gaping Anus musical composition. Included after the lyrics is a very speical tribute written by yours truely. Perhaps CmdrTaco will ask me to provide the vocals. Please feel free to read the lyrics and post your comments and disgust. E-mail CmdrTaco with this disgust also.

      BTW, please do not reply with the intention of flaming me because the lyrics are a rip-off of Insane Clown Posse's "Slim Anus". For more information on ICP and Slim Anus refer here and here. CmdrTaco is the author of this fine musical work and not me. So, it is obviously he who has ripped off ICP and not me. Thank you.

      Read the rest of this shit...

    9. Re:Snotback: Snotto, Snotz, Snottion (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.14 2:44 (#2702581)

      you know, every time i read this i want to punch you more and more. the taco snotting thing is old, lame, boring, and over done. it never was remotely funny or good though. it sounds like a 10th grader wrote it too. so please, go play in traffic or shut the fuck up so real trolls can post.

    10. Re:Italics are yummy! (Score:-1, Troll) by Super Mario Troll on 2001.12.14 2:33 (#2702535)

      Keep up the good work! Educate the masses to the dangers of Taco-Snotting!

      It's a me, the Super Mario Troll! Would you like to see my gaping troll anus
    11. Re:Italics are yummy! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.14 1:41 (#2702370)

      WIPO - Man you trolls are shit compared to Egg Trolls troll's. Egg Man is just so much more original.

    12. Re:The WIPO Troll Announces Portable Snotbox (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.07 7:58 (#2669658)

      That leaky sound you hear is CmdrTaco pissing himself after seeing this.

      Slashdot trolling just got a whole lot easier...

      http://www.geocities.com/frostpist/

      Spread the word!

    13. Re:The WIPO Troll Announces Portable Snotbox (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.07 5:48 (#2669422)

      Q: Is CmdrTaco gay?

      A: He Mos' certainly is!

    14. Re:The WIPO Troll Announces Portable Snotbox (Score:-1) by GaylordFucker on 2001.12.07 5:39 (#2669394)

      not to mention... The WIPO Troll used himself as a test subject to try out the portable snotbox... i await your results and hope your product gets approved...

      Regards, Gay

      Get that rats nest off your head, you numbskull -- Wesley Willis

    15. Re:Portable Snotcube! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.07 3:58 (#2669117)

      stfu. no one really cares about your lame little "troll". make some new material (not that anything you've ever said is worth a damn..)

    16. Re:Yum yum taco-snotting! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.02 22:15 (#2644499)

      Dear SLASH crew - this post makes it clear why you need to add a new category - "tell it like it is (+1)"

    17. This is getting old (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.02 20:14 (#2644227)

      Hey dicksuck, why don't you come up with new troll material? Everyone has seen the tacosnotting 100 times already. Fuckwit. Assholage. Gay. Lick my anal nectar.

    18. Fucking hilarious too bad it didnt get a 5:Funny (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.02 19:01 (#2644105)

      this is good shit man

    19. Re:Taco-snotting@Home! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Dark_Cobra87 on 2001.12.01 23:03 (#2642180)

      Oops, forgot to check that Taco-snot option...

    20. Re:Fuck Linux! Fuck him hard! (Score:-1) by Fecal Troll Matter on 2001.12.01 20:55 (#2641791)

      Mmmmmmm, Taco Sauce...

      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)

    21. Look (Score:-1) by ArchieBunker on 2001.12.01 20:19 (#2641679)

      I love trolling but this shit is getting old, fast. At least start mixing them up a little bit. How about the 'How OSM was Freed' series?

      http://www.naawp.org/

    22. Re:Congratulations! You have been WIPO'd!! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.01 8:37 (#2640602)

      Stop posting this! I've got hangover and Taco Snotting doesn't make me feel any better.

      I'm really glad that Taco Snotting is illegal here in Europe.

    ________________________________________
    $Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.13 2001/12/15 23:00:00 wipo Exp $
    Copyright © 2001 The WIPO Troll. Verbatim crapflooding of this document is permitted in any medium, provided this copyright notice is preserved, and next time you take a dump, you think of the WIPO Troll and all he's done to make Slashdot a better place.
    --

    J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
    Crapflooder Associates
    Slashdot.org

  27. Parent = Goatse.cx by TheOnlyCoolTim · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Nowadays on slashdot when you see [yahoo.com] it might as well say [goatse.cx]...

    Tim

    --
    Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
    1. Re:Parent = Goatse.cx by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      How about when it says AOL?

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

  28. Bin Laden dead!? by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

    I think you meant:
    http://srd.yahoo.com/M=breaking_news/h/ap/20011215 /ts/bin_laden_killed_01.html

    --

    J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
    Crapflooder Associates
    Slashdot.org

  29. Wrong kind of camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    They should have used a bunch of those disposable cameras. They work great!

  30. Anal Probe Has Camera Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    From ABCNews.com:

    The goatse.cx man, undergoing treatment for an enlarged anus, is having complications with his current proceedure. During insertion of the anal probe, video was lost to the Internet webcam monitoring the operation. A spokesperson from the American proctologist association was quoted as saying "Of course it can't see! It's covered in shit!." The goatse.cx man was unavailable for comment.

  31. Reminds me of something by freeweed · · Score: 2
    When a friend and I were about 11-12, we went to this trade fair where different booths were handing out helium balloons. We must have grabbed 50 or so each. So what else do you do with 100 helium balloons? We slitted a garbage bag, made a huge black sheet of low-weight plastic, and tied the balloons to it. We also attached a note to it (hey, we were kids) to the effect of: "If you find this, call me @ xxx-xxxx".

    The sucker was visible for a LONG time as it rose (very little wind that day). We promptly forgot about it, until about 6 months later. Turns out it ended up in some farmer's field about 200 miles away!

    Yeah, completely offtopic, but further proof of just how geeky I was in those days. Thoughts like this are what inspires people to send probes to other planets, I guess.

    --
    Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    1. Re:Reminds me of something by I.T.R.A.R.K. · · Score: -1

      How did you find out about it? Did the guy call you?
      If so, then you weren't the only one with too much free time on his hands. ;)

      --

      "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."

    2. Re:Reminds me of something by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      If so, then you weren't the only one with too much free time on his hands. ;)

      Have you ever heard of WheresGeorge? Time is a luxury that many people have.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  32. OH MY FUCKING GOD - BIN LADEN KILLED !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic



    OH MY FUCKING GOD

    BIN LADEN HAS BEEN FUCKING KILLED !!!

    According to the article, US Special Forces raided his cave, he resisted and was SHOT IN THE HEAD !

    Yahoo! News is the only article I could find at the time I heard, so I am linking to that.

    This is crazy, they are holding a press conference at the Pentagon saying they have evidence of activity by al Qaeda about possible retaliation using biological weapons !!!

    http://rd.yahoo.com/M=breaking_news/h/ap/20011215/ ts/bin_laden_killed_01.html

    1. Re:OH MY FUCKING GOD - BIN LADEN KILLED !!! by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

      Looks like Al Qaeda is making good on their threats:
      New York Subway System Believed to have been hit with Gas Attack
      Our boys are on the way with the nukes as we speak.

      --

      J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
      Crapflooder Associates
      Slashdot.org

  33. It could be... by SaDan · · Score: 0

    ...space moths!

    Shoulda spent the extra cash for one of those bug shields. Those space moths past Mars are huge!

  34. Stardust Project by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 2

    The BBC article refers to the "Stardust" project as though everyone knows about it...

    Stardust project, which had a similar problem that was much worse. In that case, Stardust's team were able to completely remove the contamination

    You can read more about that mission at http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov.

    What a name.

    --

    --- -- - -
    Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
    1. Re:Stardust Project by nusuth · · Score: 1

      Do you have any links to the problem about camera? I checked the site but didn't see an obvious link to quoted problem or a link to "mission log of stardust" kind of thing.

      --

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

  35. Wank by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

    I enjoy a good wanking every now and then. Admit it, you bunch of wankers -- you all do!

    --

    J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
    Crapflooder Associates
    Slashdot.org

  36. OH MY FUCKING GOD - MARTIANS ATTACK!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Looks like the Martians are making good on their threats!
    Click here to learn more!
    Our boys are running around like headless chickens as we speak.

  37. Me Wanky!! by Clint+Trollwood · · Score: -1

    Dry hand or lubed? I enjoy switching between the two for some reason.


    Gonzales: Why do they call ya 'Dirty Harry'?
    De Georgio: That's one thing about our Harry, he doesn't play any favorites. Harry hates everybody. Limeys, (Beat)Niks, Hebs, Fat Dagos, Niggers, Honkies, Chinks, you name it.
    Gonzales: How does he feel about Mexicans?
    De Georgio: Ask him?
    Callahan: Especially Spics.

  38. I am... by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

    playing with myself under the desk!

    --

    J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
    Crapflooder Associates
    Slashdot.org

  39. Dry, of course! by The+WIPO+Troll · · Score: -1

    ...But it's only dry for the first few minutes! :)

    --

    J. Wipo Troll, Esq.
    Crapflooder Associates
    Slashdot.org

  40. Just like my car. . . by GeorgieBoy · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's about time for some fancy inter-stellar windshield wipers. I suppose it's hard to refill wiper-fluid in space though ;-)

    1. Re:Just like my car. . . by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1

      Hey GeorgieBoy, maybe it's time you pulled that fancy cucumber out of your ass.

  41. Told ya... by broken · · Score: 1

    I told ya we shouldn't have let that guy with the squeegee wash the lens on the way to Saturn!

    1. Re:Told ya... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I told ya we shouldn't have let that guy with the squeegee wash the lens on the way to Saturn!

      And we didn't let him! I told you we should have.

  42. Waste of money by Anonymous+Pancake · · Score: -1

    Couldn't the money being used to fund nasa be used more effective to fight off terrorists?

    --

    The Slashdot Effect: A new for

  43. Mandatory Simpsons Quote by TheAlmightyQ · · Score: 0

    Abe: The metric system is the tool of the devil!

    --
    I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
  44. "around the edges" makes your dust theory remote by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful


    If dust got on the lens, or inside, most likely the fuzz pattern would be even or random. The fact that it is on the edges of the image suggests that something is condensing.

    If the camera was hit by a speck of space dust, perhaps the impact could have created a little cloud of dust when it penetrates (assuming it did not hit the lense or image sensor chip itself. If it did hit one of those, I doubt it would be just the edges.)

    The fact that a little heat reduced the problem is also kind of against that theory.

    Condensation of something is the most likely exlanation IMO.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  45. Those darn kids by Tablizer · · Score: 1


    A Jovian toddler mistook the probe for a scooter. Unfortunately, her parents forgot to put the toddler's diapers on.

    Or, they forgot to turn on the No Smoking sign.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  46. Lunch Launch? by Tablizer · · Score: 0


    Perhaps burritos should be taken off of NASA's cafeteria menu.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  47. One good thing about modems..... by Tablizer · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    ...is that you have time to cancel stupid pictures before they are fully visible.

    (I should have taken -1 at face value.)

    I hope goat-dude hasn't hacked into Cassini. Imagine the expressions at the control room when Cassina sends one of those.

    Actually, if you had an antenna big enuf (or hacked into one big enuf), hacking Cassini is perhaps relatively easy because they have not had that problem yet and thus skipped protection. Does Cassini require a password?

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  48. I WANT TO SET YOUR "CELEBRATION" ON FIRE. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll



    I want to set your celebration on fire.

    - The Guy Who Likes To Set Things On Fire.

  49. All space-probes are beta's by Tablizer · · Score: 1


    because you only get one chance to road-test it.

    (Although parts of older designs are re-used, the only way to space-test the final product is to launch it.)

    I wish they would launch 2 smaller probes rather than one big one. Split up the science instruments between them (but put high-res cameras on both). They used to do that in the 60's and 70's. Mariner 9 had a companion that croaked IIRC. Same with Mariner 2 and 4. (One of them was due to a FORTRAN typo between O and 0 (oh and zero)).

    The failure rate has been constant over the years more or less, yet the costs have dropped.

    The Soviets lost 3 probes at Mars IIRC. I believe their Venus probes were more successful because the atmosphere is so thick near the surface that landing is a breeze (no pun intend.) It is like an ocean there. Even if the probe was dead, it would still land smoothly.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  50. Return of the Dreaded... by Myriad · · Score: 2, Funny
    Oh no! It's sounds like the return of the dreaded space fungus that was eating Mir!

    Seriously though, one wonders if this could be even remotely related. I doubt it highly, but it is an interesting thought...

    --
    "They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
  51. blame Microsoft by Tablizer · · Score: 0, Offtopic


    It's Window had a hole or a leak

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  52. Seems like we need more information... by JoeRobe · · Score: 1

    I'm not quite sure what the big deal is. They said in the story that not only were they optimistic that it would be fixed, but that the lenses and optics are designed with heaters for this kind of thing. Shouldn't we be happy that finally one of those "just-in-case" prevention measures that NASA spends millions on finally might be the difference between a successful and, well, not-so-successful mission?

    It sounds to me like a lot more information needs to come out before we start saying that the mission is even in danger...we do have 2+ more years.
    JoeRobe

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
  53. Source of contamination by chazR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The source of contamination *has* to be the spacecraft itself.

    If the contamination were external, it would have had a signifigant (measurable) effect on the momentum of the spacecraft. The space through which it is travelling is pretty much completely empty anyway.

    That leaves one plausible possibility: Cassini is leaking something that is condensing on the cold (*very* cold) bits. The most likely cause is a small propellant leak. As far as I know, the spacecraft has three propellants on board, N2O4, N2H4 an monomethyl hydrazine. I'm too lazy to look up the charecteristics of these, but their boiling points differ.

    A heating cycle of the lens seems to have helped. I would be *very* surprised if the data from the heating cycle didn't give them a good clue as to the exact contaminant by looking at the amount removed by a known heat input (latent heat of vapourisation)

    The big worry is that the leak will leave the spacecraft with insufficient fuel for orbital insertion (unlikely - it's almost entirely a gravity-assist trajectory) or for manoeuvering. That would be bad.

    I may, of course, be completely wrong.

    1. Re:Source of contamination by cthugha · · Score: 2

      If the contamination were external, it would have had a signifigant (measurable) effect on the momentum of the spacecraft...That leaves one plausible possibility: Cassini is leaking something that is condensing on the cold (*very* cold) bits.

      Call me stupid, but wouldn't a leak also cause a significant change in momentum? Maybe you're just used to using some method of inertialess propulsion to get around, in which case we'd all be really interested to hear about it. :)

    2. Re:Source of contamination by nusuth · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Maybe you're just used to using some method of inertialess propulsion to get around, in which case we'd all be really interested to hear about it.

      Check woodward engine, you might find interesting. See http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/ (sorry I don't know how to make those clickable, look for research proposal about mach's principle) for credibility, james woodward's homepage http://chaos.fullerton.edu/Woodward.html for more info.

      For all too lazy to floow links guys out there, woodward claims to have detected transient mass effects, which might be used for propellantless propulsion. The idea is sound and experimental confirmation is present, but the experimental values are a few orders of magnitude less than predicted. It is unclear whether the theory or experiment design is incorrect right now. Both NASA and Mr. Woodward is looking into it, though the results have been painfully slow to arrive.

      --

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

    3. Re:Source of contamination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typing

      <a href="http://chaos.fullerton.edu/Woodward.html"&gt ;James Woodwards's homepage</a>

      gets you

      James Woodwards's homepage

    4. Re:Source of contamination by leuk_he · · Score: 2

      would be *very* surprised if the data from the heating cycle didn't give them a good clue as to the exact contaminant by looking at the amount removed by a known heat input (latent heat of vapourisation)

      I would be *very* suprised if they had enough variables for that:
      -They don't know what part of the camera is contarminted. (ccd, ot what lense)
      -They don't seem to measure the "haze", it seems hard to detect, and they are much more intersted in calculting it away.

      And, if something is leaking, there is very little they can do since there is no service point/ R2d2 robot. They will have to rely on backup devices.

      --By the way instead of *very* you can use <B> for bold or the html <I> italic </I>

  54. Heh, nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Galileo (going to the same neighbourhood) the probe had antenna problems which prevented it from sending images fast enough.

    Why is it that every time a probe goes to an interesting place it either gets lost, loses its ability to communicate or somehow otherwise loses its ability to transmit images. How do we know that the probe really is malfunctioning?

    It's easier to say that "there's a problem X and we don't get images" and then screen away all those images which might reveal something.

    In this case, expect images with "gunk" and therefor unreadable.

  55. Stop NASA bashing. by nusuth · · Score: 1

    It is the ONLY thing I LOVE about USA. I guess many foreigners feel the same way. There is bound to be problems, after all, it is rocket science. That is the agency brought Apollo 13 crew back, how hard could it be to clean a camera lens? Or just bring amazing amount of information with a faulty cam. It is one of two, after all, and there are other data collectors. Have some faith, NASA will solve... Unless your stupid president and idiotic congress cut their budgets further, not leaving enough staff to maintain the lonely probe. Remote possibility? No, just look what had happened to voyagers and pionners.

    --

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

  56. They have three YEARS to solve the problem by Zarhan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Okay, most of the folks here seem to be bashing NASA and jumping to conclusions that the probe is lost. No damn way. They'll come up with a solution soon enough - for one thing, a similar incident occured with the Stardust probe earlier this year. Just take a look at the status reports.

    Start at somewhere aroud May 4,2001 and go backwards (by that report, the problem had been fixed). I bet the glitch on Cassini will be fixed just as easily. Note that the problem occured just before christmas, so they probably just tried a "quick fix" to see if it just went away. Like said, they have until 2004(!) 'till Cassini is at its destination to try a number of things. They'll probably get rid of the contamination just by turning on the heaters for a couple of months, but they don't want to start the operation and immediately leave for a christmas vacation (in case something comes up).

    1. Re:They have three YEARS to solve the problem by JabberWokky · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Okay, most of the folks here seem to be bashing NASA and jumping to conclusions that the probe is lost.

      Regardless, this is an *experiment* - we leaned *something* here. Either about materials in extreme cold and vacuum for years, if it is a NASA "error", or about the nature of interplanetary space if it is some sort of dust. Grant you, it's not pretty pictures, but I don't think the public even cares about pretty pictures anymore.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  57. NASA gets it wrong again. When will they learn ? by Flabdabb+Hubbard · · Score: -1, Flamebait
    I am getting really really sick of reading about how this or that probe is not going to work despite costing millions of taxpayers dollars.

    Exactly who do they employ to build these things ? Trained monkeys seem to have a better chance of getting a working probe into orbit or landing on mars than NASA.

    NASA should take a look at its recruitment process and from now on, only the top Rocket Scientists, Physicists, Engeneers and Astrologers should be allowed in.

    If the next NASA project fails, then the whole organization should be canned and private enterprise can take up the slack.

  58. Re:space dust ? by krazyninja · · Score: 1
    If it were a known phenomenon like space dust, then it should have been caught during the assembly/testing process. If it really happens to be so, then that would be a serious lapse on the NASA's part, wouldnt be it? On the other hand, we need to think about why this did not happen in any of the previous probes, and only specifically this?

    --
    "Do something man. Right now."
  59. IT'S AN ALIEN LIFE FORM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    it's an alien life form censoring the images just like cnn

  60. A very, very slow leak? by chazR · · Score: 1

    Yes. Of course it would affect the momentum. But if the leak is slow enough for the vapour to remain close to the spacecraft for it to condense in large enough amounts to obscure a lens, I doubt that the velocity of the escape is enough to have much effect on a six-tonne spacecraft.

  61. My mistake by nusuth · · Score: 1
    I interpreted your previous message as implying russians just tried different things to go into space without planning for them. After re-reading your message, I see it was my mistake to do so.

    Well, I get this idea of Russian space mentality from several (Russian) friends that followed Russia's space program during the 60's.

    I wish I had one of those. I have to rely on books instead.

    --

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

  62. Most slashdotters certainly know the name Cassini by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not exactly an obscure reference.

  63. why we need NASA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ok, so I tried... I am not sure what reason there is to continue NASA's existence unless they are serving the future as an example of what NOT TO DO. Perhaps excuses and incompetence can one day be used as a propellent in space? Who knows?!

  64. I know what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This happens to my car's windshield all the time! It's just bugs - only of the space variety...

    Given that the probe is traveling at 100Kph, it's probably smacked into some migrating space insects and wiped out a few of them (probably the royalty...). Anyway, if the NASA guys had simply used some RainX and Triple-blade wipers, this wouldn't be a problem! Those bugs and space dust would just glide right off (aside: RainX really does work - best stuff I've ever used...)

    Also, the way I figure it is all of Humanity has about 10 years until the Space Bugs are able to decode the complete directions to where we are, and come to infest our planet... Time to get those Lunar Lasers online!

    Of course, it could be that the software was written by M$, and it has their address on it - so this could be a good thing... If we could just convince them that the goof with the big glasses is also related to the "windshield" that killed their royalty, then we're set! What the DOJ couldn't do, the bugs did! And space bugs at that! (aside: I wonder what M$'s EULA would say about spaceborne bugs after they wipe out their faithful leader...)...

  65. Cassini report 10/25 discusses the problem by EccentricAnomaly · · Score: 2

    From the 10/25/01 - 10/31/01 weekly status report:

    The Imaging Science Subsystem (ISS) post-warm-up images were downlinked for analysis. The 15 images were planned in support of the UVIS Spica observation, and were examined for potential changes relative to the pre-warm-up images. Preliminary results show a change in the character of the anomaly with the halo gone but more spreading of the star image than before. ISS also performed a scattered light observation, in an effort to resolve an anomaly observed in C25 when an ISS observation received far more light than expected. This current observation included a series of scans across the sky to see how much scattered light ISS gets at different distances from the sun for a selection of different orientations, to see if reflection off another part of the spacecraft is causing the extra light seen by ISS.

    --
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
  66. Clickable links by csmiller · · Score: 1

    Learn basic HTML, then submit in 'HTML Formatted' mode.
    <A HREF="http://www.nasa.gov/";>More info on NASA</A;> as an example of a link More info on NASA
    Also <BR> for line breaks and <P> for paragraph breaks.

    --
    It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --- Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Clickable links by csmiller · · Score: 1

      Opps; there shouldn't be a semi-colon between just before the >, I got a bit confused with the < & > ligatures needed for to escape angle brackets ( & is done using & )
      Doh! Serves me right for not previewing.

      --
      It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --- Albert Einstein
    2. Re:Clickable links by rjamestaylor · · Score: 1
      And
        gives you a short-cut for the
        effect (N.B., not semantic, just the rendering effect) LIke:
        • this
        Compared to
        this
        .

        Have you ever wanted to add a long "pause" or separation between paragraphs? Use clusters of <p> <br> <p>.

        I always like seeing people stretch the limits of allowed HTML here on /.
        Sometime ago a poster A poster created
        created "call out" segements cool callouts...
        to her/his posts using /. tags. Neat effect. I tried to imitate it and found that
        the preview process mangled the Comment-box contents. Moral: becareful.

      --
      -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  67. Are you dim? Have you ever been to school... by Xichael · · Score: 1

    IF you had read the article, you would have realised that Galileo was the first to observe JUPITER'S four (largest) moons and SATURN'S rings.

    Galileo is one of the world's most famous names. How could you have gotten far enough in life to be able to post on Slashdot without having heard of the guy?

    You Fucktard.

    --
    The time for school is during a recession.
    1. Re:Are you dim? Have you ever been to school... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was talking about CASSINI... Before you call anyone a "Fucktard", know what the fuck you're talking about...

      Idiot

  68. Depends by rjch · · Score: 1

    That very much depends on which hemisphere you're in... January's the second hottest month of the year for us... coming close behind Feb...

  69. Your ass smells like a rose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

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  70. Cassini plutonium or whatever.... by Ukuli · · Score: 1

    Does anybody remember there were protests against the launching of the Cassini probe? Some environmentalists were afraid about the nuclear materials aboard or something like that...