Slashdot Mirror
The Forever War
The latest book I've taken out of my "read pending" queue is The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman. Its credits include the Nebula Award in 1975 and the Hugo Award in 1976, and being considered one of the classics of the genre.
This is a fairly short science-fiction novel (250 pages in my mass-market paperback copy), dealing with the main character William Mandela, a young physics student drafted into the UN-controlled space army when war breaks out against the Taurans, an alien species we at first know nothing about (I'll purposefully avoid getting into a detailed discussion of the plot).
The novel is told to us from Mandela's viewpoint; Mandela narrates everything that happens in a very easy to read colloquial style, with an exquisite attention to details; the short chapters the book is divided in makes it a breeze to read -- a weekend in my case (and I'm no fast reader).
The Mandela character is well constructed, and his account reads like a friend telling you the story of his life. There are other characters that barely appear in the novel, yet they also feel properly written. The plot is simple and direct, with just a couple of nasty turns at key points in the story (you'll know them when you see them).
This description may remind some people of Heinlein's Starship Troopers: young guy (Mandela/Rico) enters the army, goes through a training period, goes to war with an unknown species, kicks butt and all that. Actually, that superficial description is where the resemblance stops: the way Mandela and John Rico get into the army is distinct, the training period is quite different, the aliens have nothing in common; both novels focus mainly on different stuff, and the few common themes are treated differently. If you expect this to be a Starship Troopers clone, you'll be surprised.
Surprisingly, the treatment of science isn't -- very detailed. There is enough of it to dismiss claims of this being a war novel simply translated into a SF setting (even if the author's acknowledged that the novel deals with his experiences in the Vietnam war), but hard-SF zealots might be disappointed.
All in all, this was a very enjoyable read, and I highly recommend it. I've voted 9 for this novel in the Top100SF.
You can purchase The Forever War at Fatbrain. Want to see your own review here? Read the book review guidelines, then submit using Slashdot's web-submission page :)
Chris DiBona
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
I also heartily recommend Haldeman's other "Forever" books: Forever Peace and Forever Free. They're not quite sequels (well, Forever Free is but it's set much later), but they give you the same sort of fantastic experience as The Forever War.
Some of my top sci fi picks of all time. They're on my shelf next to Ender's Game.
My deviantArt site
What made the novel truely disturbing was the alienation that the soldiers experienced upon returning home.
Because they travelled at the speed of light, a tour that lasted a year could mean that hundreds of years had passed back on Earth. The accepted norms and values of society had changed remarkably, and the soldiers had to try to adapt.
I suppose this alienation parallels the experience of Vietnam veterans, as Haldeman openly mentions that the book is really about Vietnam.
The Forever Peace, which has nothing to do with the Forever War, but is none-the-less a great book.
hmmm.. the comparison with starship troopers is fraught with peril... so... i'll launch a pre-emptive strike against possible lameness:
Do NOT judge Starship Troopers the book by Starship Troopers the movie! They are almost completely different from each other! The movie takes about 10 pages from the book and twists them almost to breaking. The result is that a movie that lost all of the really INTERESTING stuff that the book had; from political debate, full-body battle armor, to vicious bipedal aliens..
so yeah.. this goes out to anyone who decides to flame based on what they thought of starship troopers the movie.
(hmm.. i sense an offtopic coming. but i felt it was necessary to say this in order to protect two good books from a movie butchery)
ìì!
Having read the review, I'm rather surprised that no mention was made of the relativistic effects which were the underpinning of the book.
See, the reason that it's the Forever War is that everyone who's sent to the frontlines to fight travel on ships that accelerate to an appreciable fraction of the speed of light. The narrator of the story thus spends hundreds of "objective" years fighting the war for a few years of his subjective time. The result? The soldiers who are asked to fight in this war find themselves more and more estranged from human culture, which changes at the usual rate of one year per yer. The soldiers are anachronisms, and as the war drags on and society and the rules of engagement change, the soldiers find themselves cut off from society.
I think the comparison to Starship Troopers is reasonable and appropriate. Starship Troopers was written during the Cold War after World War II and the Korean War, and it reflects the sensibilities of the time (plus Heinlein's own philosophy, of course). I think the Forever War is a conscious updating of Starship Troopers after the country's and the author's experiences in the Vietnam War.
BTW, Haldeman used to teach a science fiction class at M.I.T., and for all I know he still does.
Oh, wait... nevermind.
Less about you, more about the book.
_______
2B1ASK1
Heinlein's Troopers was more political and social philosophy, from his point of view, than sci-fi. The actual slugging it out with the bugs was just the vehicle. Heinlein was like that a lot, and if you only saw the movie you know diddly about the book.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
-sk
I purchased both of these books at the same time from Amazon a couple of years ago and enjoyed both. These were both recommended to me by a fellow fan of Starship Troopers (the book) who also hated the movie. I'm far enough off topic as it is so I would just say read the reviews on Amazon if you are at all curious.
I actually prefer his trilogy of Worlds, Worlds Apart, and Worlds Enough in Time, but Forever War has a couple of concepts that I come back to years afterwards. I disagree with the assessment that Forever Free and Forever Peace suck. These are different books, with different themes, in different styles. (That said, I didn't enjoy them nearly as much. If I had to recommend one book above all others as an introduction to Haldeman, it would be the short story collection Dealing in Futures
One thing that I enjoy about Haldeman's work that also maddens me is that he adores experimentimg. Although he is a consistently good writer, he really does try to fit the style to the story. Hemingway Hoax reads very differently from some of his other books, and The Coming is a study in rapid-cutting movie techniques applied to novels.
I'm glad to see this book reviewed, as Haldeman has consistently come up with some of the most interesting ideas in SF. Oh, and the tired thing about Forever War as a retread of Starship Troopers? Heinlein didn't think so. He congratulated Haldeman on "writing one of the most original stories I've ever seen."
The Forever War first appeared as a series of short stories and novellas in Analog Science Fiction / Science Fact magazine. When the first story, "Hero," was published in 1972, critics complained it was a rip-off of Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers with sex (and slightly fancier powered armor).
The difference? Heinlein was a U.S. Naval Academy graduate who contracted tuberculosis and was forced out of the service with a medical discarge; I believe he was never given the chance to see combat. Haldeman was a Vietnam draftee. (His online biography says, "Purple Heart and other standard medals.") They had very different views of war. Haldeman's was new and unusual for the SF community.
Both are very good stories by very good writers.
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
It was adapted by Hadelman himself and inked by Marvano. It was published in French as a trilogy in 1988. Unfortunately there doensn't seem to be an english translation.
Amazon.fr
Unfortunately, the graphic art is very ordinary -- it would've been a masterpiece had it been drawn by, say, Moebius or Bilal.
This shouldn't be too surprising, as Haldeman was a physics major. More information about the author can be found at his website.
The Forever War has been called an "answer" to Starship Troopers. The main contrast between the two is that Rico volunteers, as does everyone else, for federal service, whereas Mandela is drafted. Rico knows his war to be just, whereas Mandela is never sure. Rico also revels in the destruction of the enemy of his own accord, while Mandela is forced to a bloodlust via post-hypnotic suggestion. Basically, Starship Troopers justifies its war by portraying an underestimated enemy that is ruthless, while the plot of The Forever War hints at the notion that it is mostly xenophobia and economics that drives the conflict. Rico grows to be eager to fight, of his own volition, while Mandela is coerced at every turn.
I suppose the over-riding thematic difference between the two would be that Heinlein's work portrays a protagonist that through the process of becoming more mature learns that societal duty is the highest, while Mandela has his cynicism and distrust of the powers that be confirmed.
But unfortunately, despite winning the Hugo and Nebula, Forever Peace (a thematic rather than literal sequel) is a remarkably bad novel. Again the first parts of the book, depicting telepresence-operated military robots fighting a war in Central America, are the best, even if the "Central America as Vietnam War" analog was done much better by Lucuis Shepard back in the 1980s. But after that it gets just plain awful, with paper-depth, sadistic idiot villians intent on literally destroying the world taking over the plot. In fact, the villians are such cliches that they accomplish the rare feat of making Ayn Rand's villians look subtle in comparison. Also, some would say that the ultimate message of the novel is rather revealing of late-20th century liberal thought. "Oh, if we could only cut open everyone's brain, force them to become a hive mind and make them think good thoughts, we could make the world a paradise!" Avoid.
Finally, Haldeman has stated that Heinlein's Starship Troopers was the primary influence on The Forever War, so you can stop debating that question already.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
The link is dead, here is another one (same one?) - But I don't take it seriously since Peter F. Hamilton isn't even on the list - His Nights Dawn Trilogy is simply amazing! It's among the best SF I've ever read!
Read them, they're The Reality Dysfunction (I want a hard cover of this one!) - The Neutronium Alchemist and The Naked God - They are AWESOME!
I'm currently reading his new book Fallen Dragon - and although it doesn't compare with the epic Night's Dawn trilogy, it's actually a very good book!
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
(Spoiler: the unexpected source is BSD)
This review does no justice to the book, and is distressingly superficial. If it was written by a sixth-grader, I would give this "book report" a barely passing grade.
To review the Forever War as simply Starship Troopers with different training and aliens is to miss the point. This is not a book "about" aliens or technology or hyperspace travel or combat suits.
This is a book about the nature of war -- the people we send to fight, society's relationship to those people, and the permanent affect such an undertaking has on the lives of those it touches.
The Forever War is an excellent novel, not because it is a sci-fi tale, but because it is a human tale -- an admonition to society that conflicts are not to be entered lightly, and that we have a responsibility to those who fight, well beyond merely supplying them with bullets.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
"What made the novel truely disturbing was the alienation that the soldiers experienced upon returning home."
And that was the essence of what the book was about.....
I read the book the week it was published (still have that copy), I was very impressed with Haldeman's treatment of the cultural and psychological aspects of isolation and alientation on soldiers as time passed in their societies "back home".
And from a craft point of view, I still think that it is Haldeman's best book.
However, "Forever War", for me, fairly light on the "s" portion of s/f.
Also, any comparison to Starship Troopers (the book), is merely superficial resemblance.
Johnny Rico, in ST, is the device Heinlein uses to show us the effects of a "limitless war" upon both people and societies, when confronted with an enemy so inhuman that they are merely "Bugs" (a device Scott Card has also used and improved upon in his "Enders" series).....
However, in FW, William Mandela IS the story. His POV dominates the entire book (as was Haldeman's intention).
We never see a maturation curve on Johnny Rico. Sure, he gets older and wiser and tougher as his combat time accumulates, but we don't get to see into his mind the way we do with William Mandela.
Haldeman does a great job with the soldier's POV and his own personal experiences in "Nam ring out nicely in the book, BUT...
"Forever War" is a book that looks within and Starship Troopers is a book that looks without....
s/f has ALWAYS had a wide range of treatment of science and technology, from the wild-but-nonscientific "raygun and mind control" pennings of Doc Smith and his "Lensmen" series to the scientifically carefully crafted work of Charles Sheffield.
Forever War is stong on the story and characters and the resulting insights, but if you are expecting some "kick ass" or unique treatment of relativistic effects, you'll be somewhat disappointed, not much science is being committed.
YMMV
....
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
The reviewer left this out, but there are actually three different versions of this book that are available.
The first version was the original publication, and is the shortest. I think it was cut to make the book shorter, and thus cheaper, and it left out most of the chapters of civilian life.
The second version added some cut chapters, but not all.
The third version is the latest published, and it contained the entire book as originally written. I recently read this version, and I think it is by far the best of the three.
I'd argue Heinlein was exploring some ideas, as opposed to "prescribing how things ought to be," so it's perfectly fair for Haldeman to have explored a different direction, and he did it well, generating an interesting read.
I'm afraid I don't heartily recommend the later books; if "Forever War" derived some greatness from deriving from some neat ideas, well, the later ones didn't.
Forever Peace started well enough, but it was really irritating when it headed into the same sort of giant military conspiracy theory "MacGuffin" that turned the movie Outbreak from good to very bad.
Lord of the Rings did "conspiracy" much better by almost not showing us the malevolence of Sauron...
I'd put Forever War on the "good shelf," but dunno about the others...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
> Also, any comparison to Starship Troopers (the book), is merely superficial resemblance.
>
> Johnny Rico, in ST, is the device Heinlein uses to show us the effects of a "limitless war" upon both people and societies, when
> confronted with an enemy so inhuman that they are merely "Bugs" (a device Scott Card has also used and improved upon in
> his "Enders" series).....
> However, in FW, William Mandela IS the story. His POV dominates the entire book (as was Haldeman's intention).
I think you miss an important point here that makes the contrast between the two books both deep & insightful: Heinlein was an officer, & Haldeman was a grunt.
My grandfather served in the First World War in the American Expeditionary Force, where he was injured by mustard gas. According to my mother, afterwards he read a book or two, & complained that these books DIDN'T describe the war he was in. I'm sure at some point Haldeman read Heinlein's book, & not only came to the same conclusion, but found the inspiration to write his own book.
Geoff
P.S. Does anyone else remember the board game ``Warp Wars" from the late 1970's? The creator admitted he was inspired in his time-dilation mechanics by Haldeman's novel.
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Actually abour 3 years ago the book was reprinted and was promoted a bit by the publisher. It was probably done to coincide with Forever Peace
I've read just about everything from Joe Haldeman- Forever War is one of his best. Others have mentioned things about the Forever Peace and Forever Free. They are all different novels, but Forever Free was neat and fun, until the very end, which was very disappointing. I'm not going to give it away, but it seems that when he was writing Forever Free, he was going strong and then had to finish it quickly to fulfill some contractual obligation. I didn't go into this book thinking that it would be more of the same, but I do want a good story, not one that makes me wonder why I even bothered reading the book.
When did paperbacks become "mass-market" paperbacks? What other kind of paperback is there? Why aren't people happy just saying a book is a paperback any more?
It's beautifully drawn, similar to Druuna or other high-end euro-comics. As an avid fan of the the novel, I found the graphic novelization to be faithful in tone and characterization, but missing quite a few of the details that made the book one of my favorites. I have it on my "best of comics" shelf with Zot, Watchmen and Maus.
I'm very glad I spent the $27 on the books, and no you can't have them! =)
That's more or less what Forever War is, as well. Both books, are colored by the 2 very different authors perceptions of the government, and by their different time periods in which they grew up, and formed most of their philosophical underpinnings.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
It's not clear to me what the point of reviewing well-thought-of science fiction classics is. Couldn't they all be accurately summed up with, "This is a really good book. Read it"?
max
From The Ultimate Science Fiction Web Guide:
<http://magicdragon.com>, click on "Science Fiction"
Joe Haldeman, full name Joe William Haldeman:
Hugo Awards 1976, 77, 91, 95
Locus Poll Award 1976
Nebula Awards 1975, 90, 93
World Fantasy Award 1993
HOMer Award 1994
SF Chronicle Award 1995
Joe Haldeman@sff.net
Joe [William] Haldeman, born Oklahoma City 9 Jun 1943, son of Jack Carroll Haldeman and Lorena Spivey, married Mary Gay Potter 21 Aug 1965, author:
* War Year [Holt, 1972]
* Cosmic Laughter, 1974
* The Forever War [St.Martins, 1975; Science Fiction Book Club; Ballentine Books]
* Mindbridge [St.Martins, 1976; Science Fiction Book Club; Ballentine Books]
* Planet of Judgment, 1977
* All My Sins Remembered, 1977
* Study War No More, 1977
* Infinite Dreams, 1978
* Worlds Without End, 1979
* Worlds, 1981 (with brother Jack C. Haldeman II)
* There Is No Darkness, 1983
* Worlds Apart, 1983
* Tool of the Trade, 1987
* Buying Time [William Morrow, June 1989] IMMORTALITY ISBN 0-688-07244-5, a.k.a. "The Long Habit of Living"
* The Hemingway Hoax [Morrow, Jun 1990] TIME TRAVEL 0-688-09024-9
* More Than the Sum of His Parts [Pulphouse (Short Story Paperback), May 1991]
ISBN 1-56146-514-3
* 1968 [London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1994; Morrow, 1995] SF/Vietnam Autobiographical, highly recommended
* Forever Peace [Ace , Oct 1997] ISBN 0-441-00406-7, sequel to The Forever War
* also the "Attar the Merman" series
* some "Star Trek" novels:
* Planet of Judgement [Bantam, 1977]
* Star Trek: World Without End [Bantam, 1979; June 1993]
Anthologies and Collections Edited:
* Nebula Awards 17 [Holt, 1983]
* Dealing in Futures [Viking, 1985] 11 stories + 3 poems
* Body Armor: 2000 (co-anthologists Martin H. Greenberg, Charles G. Waugh)
[Ace, Apr 1986] 11 Military/SF stories, ISBN 0-441-06976-2
* Space-Fighters (co-anthologists Martin H. Greenberg, Charles G. Waugh)
[Ace, Apr 1988] 15 stories, ISBN 0-441-77786-4
* Supertanks (co-anthologists Martin H. Greenberg, Charles G. Waugh)
[Ace, Apr 1987] 10 stories, ISBN 0-441-79106-9
* Vietnam and Other Alien Worlds [NESFA Press, Feb 1993] ISBN 0-915368-52-8
4 stories + 5 essays + 4 poems + long intro
* None So Blind [Morrow AvoNova, May 1996] ISBN 0-688-14779-8
Collection of 11 stories + poems
* Saul's Death & Other Poems [Anamnesis Press, June 1997] ISBN 0-9631203-4-4
$10.95, 77pp, trade paperback, cover artists: Toni Luna Montealegre,
SF/Fantasy Poetry collection (32 poems)
B.S. 1967 in Physics and Astronomy, University of Maryland;
MFA in English 1975 University of Iowa;
Associate Professor of Writing Program 1983-87, M.I.T.; served with U.S. Army 1967-69, decorated Purple Heart; recipient Hugo Award 1976, 1977; Nebula Award 1975; Lifetime Active Member of Science Fiction Writers of America, Authors Guild, Poets & Writers Inc.
Back in my D&D days (15 years ago?), my parents got me The Forever War RPG for xmas. It was pretty cool actually, no character development but you basically had a board where you setup human and alien troops. It was pretty cool, it even had the stasis field and archaic weapons too.
There is a triumvarate of good Power Armor books.
Starship Troopers,
The Forever War and
Armor
Starship Troopers is the facist, macho view point. The enemy consists of skinnies and nasty bugs. The army way is the right way and cowards are not well recieved.
The Forever War is the idealistic, peacnik view. The situation is always fubar, authority figures suck and the book explores many interesting socialogical situations such as men and women in the army together, gay life, and a world where only nice people are cloned.
Armor - this book avoids the whole good and bad issue because the main character is essencially insane. The situation is always FUBAR. Authority figures run the range of good to incompetent but it doesn't matter because the "Ants" manage to screw up every plan Earth has for them. There is a very cool and interesting and totally out of place middle story that doesn't involve the main character.
I don't just recommend all three books. I think anyone who reads one has to read the other two. I liked them all for their merits but opinions vary and you are bound to hate at least one of these books.
--Peter
Forever Peace was a good read, light but engrossing, with ideas good enough to challenge me even if I disagreed with some of them (or disagreed with the 'light' treatment they recieved).
Odd that this shows up on /. - I'm gonna have to hunt down the book and read it now.
Bleh!
I think you miss an important point here that makes the contrast between the two books both deep & insightful: Heinlein was an officer, & Haldeman was a grunt.
It makes less difference that you suspect... RAH was a very junior officer, in the Navy of then-and-there, he was not much better off than a grunt.
> Heinlein wasn't even an officer.
>
> He was accepted to the Naval Academy, but was discharged (in his sophmore year iirc)for medical reasons (a blown out
> knee), while Haldeman was an infantryman in Viet Nam.
>
> Heinlein tried to sign up during WWII, but was refused, again, on medical grounds.
In response to my earlier statement, I've read one person who stated he was not an officer, one who stated he was, & one who stated he was a ``sapper", a rank not usually found in the US military. To settle this difference in opion, I pulled out my copy of L. Sprague de Camp's _Science Fiction Handbook_, which I have found to be an invaluable reference for this genre in the late 1930's & 1940's period, when he was a participant & knew almost all fo the major figures.
de Camp wrote:
``Robert Anston Heinlein was born in Missouri in 1907, was reared in Kansas City, Mo., and graduated from the US Naval Academy in 1929. He served with the fleet but was retired for physical disability in 1934. He tried silver-mining in Colorado, professional politics in California, and finally writing. When he sold ``Life Line" to _Astounding_ in 1939 his thought (like that of many other beginning writers misled by initial success) was, why hasn't somebody told me about this? It beats working! During the war he worked as a civilian engineer in the U. S. Navy, along with Asimov and me [de Camp], but returned to writing afterwards."
So my comments about his being an officer were correct. (Amazing, considering my memory.) And this provided him a different viewpoint from Haldeman, whose attitudes about war are very clear in his numerous novels.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
"The Forever War" implies that war is caused by misunderstandings (it turns out that the war in the book was due to a lack of communication between humans and aliens). Rather more concrete economic factors were responsible for the Vietnam War, and most wars in fact, as the relative failure of both the League of Nations (and its successor the United Nations) to stop wars demonstrates
Peacetime service on a ship with a stateroom and a wardroom compareth not to that of an enlisted infantryman in vietnam. Dont think that a JO's job isnt hard, but there are fewer ambushes and pungee sticks.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
You know, I sort of enjoyed them during a brief time when I was young, but I've gotten pretty sick of the SF shelves being choked full of endless series of military sci-fi. I don't even see the point anymore, and I find the mindless romanticization of war somewhat repugnant (how on earth can you idealize a mercenary?).
Vote HERE for the ultimate Sci-Fi books too.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
Umm, how about the comparison was not made on the terms you suggest, but rather on the far more simple basis... Please READ the message I replied to.
Good point. Almost everything in the sci-fi section today is military, fantasy, or both.
(Amusing alternative: "First Contract", by Greg Costikyan. The aliens land and the hero's startup company goes bankrupt due to alien competition. The hero retaliates by selling cheap plastic stuff to the aliens, exploiting a miserable exchange rate to become the richest person on Earth.)
One theme I found interesting was the gay theme, which was very open minded for its time. To combat overpopulation on earth, the human race is genetically manipulated so that all people born are gay. The allegory is a bit heavy handed when Mandela is discriminated against for being the only straight person aboard a battleship... He suspects a female officer might be a closet straight after she makes a pass at him when she is very drunk.
SPOILER -
The author chickens out toward then end of the book though. They have essentially reached "the end of history". Genetic manipulation has become so advanced that they can retailor living humans. Mandela's gay friends all choose to be reenginered straight and all live happily ever after in utopia as straight couples. Why would they choose to turn straight if all they had known in their life was to be gay and presumably suffered no discrimination for it? It would imply that being straight is the only natural choice. But I know I wouldn't want to change if I was offered a magic pill today.
Would you change the core of who you are to fit in?
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Another example of relativity in Science Fiction would be the anime "Gunbuster", created by Gainax in 1988. It's also about humanity battling an alien race.
Unlike the sociological focus of the Forever War, it seems (to me at least), the consequences of time dilation are focused more on the technological advancements the human race accomplishments, as we advance from the first crude spacecraft, to mammoth battleships, to finally a vessel engineered from the planet Jupiter.
During the course of the series, there is one particular combat sequence that shows a pair of time displays in a cockpit, one showing a slowly advancing shipboard clock, while the other shows an earth time display, blurred by the speed of the digits whipping by.
Another amusing feature is a set of "Physics Lessons", as the show pauses for brief explanations hosted by the main characters.