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Review: The New Casio Pocket PC E-200

Posted by timothy on from the smaller-better dept.

msolnik writes: "PocketNow has done an in-depth review of the new Casio Pocket PC E-200. It has a built in compact flash and SD slot. It has a 206mhz strong arm, reflective screen and a replacable rechargeable battery. In my opionion it looks very cool and seems like it could do some damage to the IPAQ's sales. On a side note it should run linux no problem."

110 comments

  1. NetBSD? by jmallett · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Has anyone gotten NetBSD up and running on it yet?

    Err, and really, who needs that much speed on a PDA? It's not like you're playing Quake on it (though, actually, that could be fun... playing Quake on a handheld computer in public could have interesting affects).

    1. Re:NetBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      actually people are playing quake on it...

      http://quake.pocketmatrix.com/quake/index.html

    2. Re:NetBSD? by Whitehawke · · Score: 1

      I want a PDA with the capacity (memory, speed, hardware) for speech-generation and voice recognition. Yes, there are situations where voice-communication with your PDA is not appropriate or possible (e.g. in a meeting), but there are times when it would be very handy (when you're driving and want to "jot down" some thoughts).

      Dave Storrs

    3. Re:NetBSD? by biglig2 · · Score: 2

      Most of the latest-gen PocketPC have voice control. They don't transcribe yet, but you can say "RIAA" at them to make the MP3 player start up, etc.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  2. THis is perfect! by mosch · · Score: 4, Funny

    This thing will be perfect for Embedded XP! The only question left is where can I buy one?

    1. Re:THis is perfect! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your an idiot, if this is capable of running windows xp embedded than all other pocket pc devices are too, but the sheer fact that windows xp embedded lacks minor requirments for a hand held such as an interface might be why microsoft decided to stash pocket pc 2002 on it.

  3. How 'bout one better? by fader · · Score: 5, Informative

    For less than the $600 price the article mentions, you can get a Sharp Zaurus with the same specs. (CF slot, SD slot, 206MHz... the works.) Plus you get a keyboard(!) and there's no ugly windows logo emblazoned on it.

    Sorry, I think that Casio's a day late and $100 to expensive.

    --
    - fader
    1. Re:How 'bout one better? by neema · · Score: 3, Informative

      The one you mention, with the 206mhz StrongArm, keyboard, FC slot, SD slot, all of that... Well, it's not out yet. As you can see here. So Casio isn't really late. Maybe just expensive.

    2. Re:How 'bout one better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1


      Sure, the Zarus is cheaper and has the keyboard, but look at the built in Memory: E200=64MB RAM+ 32 Flash, Zarus=32MB RAM + 16MB Flash



      And how about the USB host functionality (at least hardware-wise, will require drivers to enable) for the E200.



      Screen quality is another biggie, though that will require actual reviews, can't go off datasheets. But the point is that for $100 more, you are getting better hardware. And just because a product runs linux out-of-the-box doesn't mean it is the greatest thing in the world.

    3. Re:How 'bout one better? by Dj · · Score: 1

      The 5500 isn't. The 5000D is. I have one on my desk here.

      --
      "You know you want me baby!" - Crow T Robot
    4. Re:How 'bout one better? by fader · · Score: 1

      Sure, the Zarus is cheaper and has the keyboard, but look at the built in Memory: E200=64MB RAM+ 32 Flash, Zarus=32MB RAM + 16MB Flash

      I was comparing the release version of the Zaurus, which will have 64MB of RAM and be $100 less than the Casio. If you want the Zaurus that's out now (like I got :) with only 32MB of RAM, it's about $200 cheaper. Quite a difference.

      I admit that I don't know how much flash the release version of the Zaurus will have, but it's something of a moot point anyway as it's only used for storing built-in applications and such. The Casio needs the extra 16 meg of flash -- the applications are written by Microsoft. (Have to have something to fit that flight simulator into the spreadsheet...)

      --
      - fader
    5. Re:How 'bout one better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Casio Also supports USB hosting , so dont hold your breath

      Casio rules

    6. Re:How 'bout one better? by Rog7 · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing though, Casio has a reputation for putting together good quality handhelds. Sharp does not.

      My Sharp Mobilon Pro was sent back to the shop three times due to battery usage problems. They can't even seem to manage holding a backup battery without bleed-draining it. The entire Mobilon line was problematic.

      Needless to say my Mobilon collects dust and it won't be anytime soon that I'll be purchasing another handheld from Sharp.

      Seeing a new handheld from Casio on the other hand intrigues me, because I still use my E-100 daily after two years without any problems.

    7. Re:How 'bout one better? by StarKruzr · · Score: 1

      In fairness, the Zaurus looks to be engineered EXTREMELY well. I really like its design, especially that built-in thumbboard. The production model, hopefully, will really be able to give Casio, Compaq, and HP a run for their money.

      On the other hand, I recently ordered an E-200 and eagerly await its arrival.

      So, draw your own conclusions.

      /me loads Linux on his Casio and wanders off, whistling...

      --

      +++ATH0
  4. All the same! by rockwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems that, for the most part, all palms and variants are mainly the same. I am still chugging along with my Palm IIIxe and putting aside the desire for a rechargable cradel instead of using AAA power.. I have found no great reason to compel me to purchase a newer model. It appears that everything after the originals are simply bell and whistles with no "I've got to have it" functionality. What about Palms that come equipped with built in radar detectors.. so while on the road you can mount it to your dash board and plug it into your cigarette lighter! Or built in scanning capabilities that are able to detect Radio frequencies so I can scan my house for wire taps and bugs. Or a montion detector that I can point around the corner of my cubicle.. and will sound off when my boss is coming.

    I mean really!! Even M$ comes with tons of useful things already in it.. even if the system itself sucks.

    Oh.. one last thing.. what about a built in unique encryption key.. with a retractable USB cord. This can be plugged into any USB equipped machine and you can use the key for file encryption or even for identity purposes simalair to a keyspan.

    Maybe it's just me and my tight wallet.. but I don't see the hype lately!

    --
    Never try to beat a professional at his own game!
    1. Re:All the same! by gregfortune · · Score: 2, Funny

      If nothing else, there's some serious geek factor involved. Take, for instance:

      Boy1 : "My Dad works with a 512 machine dual alpha 833 cluster"
      Boy2 : "Big deal. My Dad can kick your dad's butt at Quake"
      Boy1 (miffed): "Well, my mom drives a 2003 Lexus with built-in GPS, built-in electronic stun theft protection, built-in dog_pees_on_tire() protection, built in adaptive AI that reminds her to pick milk up from the store and it even talks in a deep sexy man's voice when Dad's not around."
      Boy2 : "So what, my Mom can cook."
      Boy1 (really miffed): "Ah Ha, let me see your PDA..." (pause as he boots up Quake) "Thought so, yours only does 6726 fps. Mine does 6731 fps."
      Boy2 : "DADDY!!!!! I WANT A NEW PDA!!!!"

      See.... And tell me that's not how 99% of geeks think about new hardware. I won't even mention the speed of my PDA....

    2. Re:All the same! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new to computers.

    3. Re:All the same! by maverick_and_goose · · Score: 1

      WOW. That isn't needed or going to sell. Slow down or maybe just stop.

      --
      Whose idea was it to put Windows servers on the net in the first place, anyway?
    4. Re:All the same! by fader · · Score: 1

      Oh.. one last thing.. what about a built in unique encryption key.. with a retractable USB cord. This can be plugged into any USB equipped machine and you can use the key for file encryption or even for identity purposes simalair to a keyspan.

      This would be great, right up until you lost or broke your PDA and couldn't access your files.

      --
      - fader
  5. I'll be back by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll consider lugging one around every day when the pocket PC becomes half the thickness it currenly is and is half the weight.

    Yes, size does matter.

    Meanwhile I'll stick with my old but smaller Handspring.

    --

    --- -- - -
    Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
  6. Another Pocket PC Freak by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These things are becoming freaks because they are too big to lug around in a pocket everyday but have more power than a decent laptop from 4 years ago. More memory and processor power are a waste in a package that will really do little more than some point-click lookups (eg address book) and play games.

    How much memory and processing power does an address book need?

    If it is more than an address book then give me a da*n keyboard and bigger screen. Wait, I already have one of those. I call it a laptop and it is about as small as I can stand a real computer being.

    --

    --- -- - -
    Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
    1. Re:Another Pocket PC Freak by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 2

      thiner than a co-workers Handspring by a few millimeteres

      Then you have a real pocket PC and I applaud you. My entire point is that size matters and you seem to appreciate that.

      All the other features are ho-hum if it is too much hassle to carry it around.

      --

      --- -- - -
      Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
    2. Re:Another Pocket PC Freak by (H)elix1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Address book? This thing has enough power to play video or MAME! I picked up a ipaq 3670 (206mhz, 64M RAM, $300) and have had tons of fun with it. By default, half the ram goes to storage, half to running stuff (on wince) - less for apps if you use it for storing MP3's. If I can get this thing to run Tomcat, I'm set. (I know I could do some form of PocketIIS) Heck, with that much power, IBM's J9 JVM is snappy. Heck, I can even use C++, rather than the C toolkit I used for than my Palm III.

      Mine filled up quick, though I'm the reason for quotas at our current shop (grin).

      --
      +++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
    3. Re:Another Pocket PC Freak by dotmaudot · · Score: 1

      If it is more than an address book then give me a da*n keyboard and bigger screen. Wait, I already have one of those. I call it a laptop and it is about as small as I can stand a real computer being.

      My old Psion 5mx has a keyboard (which I actually manage to use), and a screen that is small, but lets me do something useful. It's a shame that nobody wants to build it anymore.

      ciao, .mau.
  7. Hah! by saxmatt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If only it had the PalmOS on it. Palm's new StrongARM units, if done well, should solidly defeat the PocketPCs once and for all. That would be a nice blow to M$ to have them lose in a market they've invested billions in. Maybe Linux will be next :).

    1. Re:Hah! by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      If only Palm OS wern't so horrible. It's not that it isn't efficent - it's that it isn't flexible or powerful. Look at the HandEra vs. Clie - both have high-resolution screens, but because they had to use a hack to do it the two systems are completely incompatible. Who's going to write 3 versions of a program (Lo-Res, HandEra High-Res, Clie High-Res). I imagine that the ARM conversion will be similar - incompatibility across the board. Another example: memory expansion. PocketPC adds the memory card as just another folder. Various Palm OS devices deal with it in different ways. Until Palm OS 4.0, there was no support for memory cards. So Handspring and Sony added it in - to be competitive with Pocket PC devices. Unfortunately, their solutions were "half-baked" and, again, completely incompatible with each other. That, added to the fact that Palm OS doesn't multitask, was never properly designed for color (look at the UI of PocketPC vs Palm), and has an extremely primitive filesystem and it spells disaster. You're trying to run an OS designed for 16MHZ 68K (Dragonball) CPUs with less than 1/2 a MB of ram on a 200+ MHZ ARM with 8+ MB of ram? It'd be like running DOS on your PC, constantly adding on cleaver hacks to make it better. Palm needs a serious rewrite. Compare Pocket PC and Palm and you see the difference. Pocket PC natively supports resolutions from 320x240 to whatever the driver can power. Don't believe me? Try JS Landscape and see. The Pocket PC handles quite well in high-res mode (some 3rd party applications don't, however. This is easy for the developer to fix, thankfully). The Pocket PC has an extremely similar API to Windows 2000 (albeit a subset). The Pocket PC has a fully featured hierarchical filesystem, too (and the root is even "\" - i.e. "\program files"). Palm is living in the past. And no, Palm's ARM units will not spell doom for Pocket PCs. Pocket PCs are too well established, and are slowly crushing Palm sales. Yes, the ARM units would be serious competition... if they ever come out. For now, they should be classified as vaporware. With Palm's poor sales with the M500 and M505 series, and the VII, they need something good - and fast. Sorry Palm, you didn't innovate. And MS crushed you. Sure the Clie and Visor may survive, but that's because Sony and Handspring innovated. The Clie has a high-resolution (2x) screen and can play MP3s as well as access Memory Sticks (yes, I don't like them either). The Handspring has it's Springboard slot which supports everything from GPSs to MP3 players. No, Handspring and the Clie will be spared. But Palm will not.

    2. Re:Hah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      too bad the new palms run current palm software in emulator mode *slower* than the original palms. IF someone is going to go through all the trouble to write arm apps, why not do pocket pc where there is already an installed base of users and a more mature OS.

  8. PDA as Server? by aka-ed · · Score: 1


    Gee that site slashdotted fast....

    --
    I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
  9. A Small Suggestion. by hyyx · · Score: 4, Offtopic

    I saw a post the other day about having /. consider running a mirror for each story. I couldn't load the review at 5 comments. What's the point of posting a story when you can't look at it? Just have a mirror up for a couple of hours until the /. effect wears off. No big deal to do that.

    1. Re:A Small Suggestion. by tin_the_fatty · · Score: 1
      Nah... The whole point is that the slashdotted sites should die a horrible death. Slashdot is an assets to VA in the sense that it would actually attract businesses. Think about it: a news site wannabe doesn't survive a slashdot effect. Who are they going to call to solve the problem? The operator of Slashdot of course.


      Mod me down. I don't care. I have no karma to start with.

  10. Nice, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...is someone -really- working on porting Linux to it? "Should" really means nothing here...the effort needed to play the "flash game" to get Linux on there is NOT fun. The iPaq people have inside help from Compaq on this one...is the same true for this device?

    As an aside, the GCC-ARM code is terrible. GCC -still- has a vexing bug with optimization on the ARM platform. If you compile something with optimizations, it will blow up when you run it. This really needs to be fixed, or else Wince will have the speed advantage.

  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  12. The only drawback by tcc · · Score: 3, Redundant


    I'd rather put 2x or 3x the price of that and get a laptop that will do 10 times more stuff.

    The good news is, for people that actually want a pda, and think that the Palm II is a bit obsolete, can not get a E115 for way cheaper than it was just 2 years ago. You get the extra features without the heavy price tag, besides for 1/3 the price of that E200 unit you won't be paranoid about breaking it or losing it...

    Still, the high-end segment is really cool, must be nice running a gameboy emulator on that little beast.

    --
    --- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
    1. Re:The only drawback by Christopher+Bibbs · · Score: 2

      And it'd be 10 times more of a pain to lug around a laptop. Honestly, do you carry a laptop with you run out to pick up milk? How about when you go to the movies? Probably not. Of course, its very easy to run into someone you know at either of these spots and need something off of your machine. (Contact information for a third person, dates, public keys, etc.)

      The big advantage to these really high powered PDA's is that they can do more than act as a digital date book. Ever try manipulating a large data set on a Palm so you can show your boss what the results of your tests were? (if your boss has time to sit down and read e-mail, you work in a different environment than I do) Sometimes you need ultra portable computing that you can use while you move, not computing that you can move to different work locations.

  13. Makes the Zaurus look better by Bob_Robertson · · Score: 2

    If there aren't too many people who buy the Casio and later say "Doh!", having the Casio to compare too will make the Zaurus 5500 look really good.

    Cheaper, runs Linux already, sold!

    Bob-

    --
    The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
    1. Re:Makes the Zaurus look better by pirkster · · Score: 1

      I have the Sharp... Paid 399.00 for the developers version... Came stock with linux and Java installed... Works great!!!! Casio and Compaq really need to officially support linux...
      I basically have a PDA that syncs with palm desktop or outlook, and has a linux OS behind it all... Talk about a sleeper... :-)

  14. SD slot? by RasputinAXP · · Score: 1

    Super Deformed? Does this mean my head will expand to 200x its normal size if I utilize the SD slot? My girlfriend's gonna get ticked...

    1. Re:SD slot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      i doubt severely that you have a girlfriend with such a shitty sense of humor

  15. OT: broken images? by pen · · Score: 1

    Is anyone else getting broken images on Slashdot? None of them are loading, and the server seems to be returning a 403. Is it just me?

    1. Re:OT: broken images? by A+Commentor · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's just you...

      --

      Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com

    2. Re:OT: broken images? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since two days, slashdot apparently requires the referer header in the http request for images set to slashdot.org and not wiped out. And yes, this sucks. Fix it in your squid.conf.

  16. Smaller still by srichman · · Score: 2
    Meanwhile I'll stick with my old but smaller Handspring.
    And I'll stick with my considerably smaller Rex 6000.

    Not everyone needs a 206MHz Strong Arm. Some of us simple organizer folk are content with a 4.3MHz 8-bit Z80.

    1. Re:Smaller still by whaley · · Score: 1

      It looks nice, but I wonder how useful it is.
      Apparently it is very slow and memory-ineffective when you enter notes on the Rex itself in stead of
      on the PC and sync it. My Palm IIIx is fast enough
      to be smooth and a Casio PocketPC I tried was even
      better at that. But at least this Rex PDA is
      really easy to take with you. Maybe even too easy :)

    2. Re:Smaller still by srichman · · Score: 1
      Apparently it is very slow and memory-ineffective when you enter notes on the Rex itself in stead of on the PC and sync it.
      It isn't especially slow when you enter notes and contacts. It does eat your memory faster (probably about 2x) until you sync it. When you sync it, the syncing software does memory defragmentation, so it doesn't wind up being any different.
  17. I need more speed than 206mhz by NanoGator · · Score: 1

    I want to watch the TV shows captured with my home-brew pvr (www.snapstream.com) wirelessly through a PocketPC. The new X-scale processors should have enough horsepower to do it.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:I need more speed than 206mhz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      206Mhz is fine for watching video on a pocket PC. Even my old 133Mhz casio plays MPEG1 files fine.

    2. Re:I need more speed than 206mhz by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      I wasnt too clear on that. I want to play back Windows Media 7 or 8 at 320 by 240 at 30fps. 206 mhz machines cant quite do that.

      The reason I am using this particular setup is that I have a PVR set up to automatically catch shows for me when I'm at work. Right now I watch them on my TV. I could tweak the file settings some to play on the current line of PocketPCs, but it'd make the quality unacceptable for the TV.

      See what I mean?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  18. Entertainment on a plane... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

    The big appeal to me with PocketPC's is being able to use them instead of a laptop on an airplane. I want to be able to play games (yeah! MAME would rock!), watch movies, listen to music, and so on. If I could hook up the iPod with a PocketPC and use it as a portable hard drive to store TV shows on, that would be the killer app for me. I would *stop* taking my laptop on trips! At that point, I would have just two items that each fit in my pocket.

    What about waiting an hour or 2 for the mechanic to fix my car?

    What about during a power failure?

    etc.. I can think of lots of times something like this would come in handy. (... I ache for a Tablet PC though...)

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:Entertainment on a plane... by biglig2 · · Score: 2

      You don't even need the ipod particularly. There are many ways to expand storage in Pocket PC's from SD card up to PC cards. OK, you won't get a whole season of shows on one, but you'll get enough that power becomes your worry.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  19. Running Linux by Splezunk · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Could someone please explain the infation that everybody seems to have about running linux on everything even though its not suited to that task?

    I agree that linux is a good secure Server system, but for the life of me I can't understand what you would want it on a PDA for. Use the best tool for the job - This exludes Win XP as well.

    1. Re:Running Linux by Jimithing+DMB · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Could you please explain to me what the hell you were thinking in this post?

      I can only assume that a) you are a troll (although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and besides, I don't think this is the case), b) you have no idea what Linux is beyond knowing that a lot of people use it for servers and that some crackpots (like me) use it on their desktops, or c) you know what Linux is but can't figure out why anyone would use it on a PDA.

      Anyway, let me get to the point. You may have heard that Linux is free/open-source software. This means the sourcecode is available for all to modify, play with, do whatever with (for the most part). Because of this, Linux lends itself well to running on a variety of devices. Anyone can take the source and port it to different architectures. Also because of this anyone can mix and match components and write some of their own to make Linux more suitable for a particular device.

      For example, there is a long standing argument that having a GUI running on a server all the time is just plain silly. Most of the time no-one is going to be physically at the console. Also most of the time it is easier to remotely administer the machine (even from an office down the hall) than it is to go into the server room. Therefore having a GUI running is simply wasting resources. Linux allows you to do this. Windows does not. However, when you are running Linux as a desktop OS it rarely makes sense not to have a GUI running.

      Now, when running Linux on a PDA not using a GUI would be quite cumbersome and I would agree that I couldn't understand why you would want to do this... assuming you want to use the device as a PDA. But here's where the flexibility comes in again. Why run X11 and something like GNOME/KDE or whatever that is intended for a desktop computer. That would be silly for a PDA. It would be better to have a simpler GUI that is easier to interact with. Linux allows this to happen.

      Basically, the bottom line is that the term "Linux" seems to pretty much refer to any system using the Linux kernel. If you were to rephrase your question as "Could someone please explain the infatuation that everybody seems to have about running the Linux kernel on everything..." then you would realize that the Linux kernel is very well suited to the task, along with other parts of what makes up a Linux system. However, not all parts make sense as I described in the previous paragraph.

      I sincerely hope that this clears this issue up for you and that you now understand why people try to make the Linux kernel run everywhere. And I sincerely hope that you weren't a troll because if you were that means I just spent the last 5-10 minutes of my life so you could get your jollies hoping someone would get pissed off.

    2. Re:Running Linux by Splezunk · · Score: 1
      Thank you, you have explained it pretty well. And also emphasised my point, that being that linux being just the kernel, might not be that well integrated into the system.
      eg. PalmOS - Made for handhelds, etc.
      Wince - Bloated piece of crap, like most of MS stuff
      Linux - Could this not also suffer from bloat and having lots of unnecessary stuff for a PDA.

      Obviously, if you strip it down etc. you can get something really small, but still not quite doing what it was intended for...

      Just my thoughts....

    3. Re:Running Linux by ofels · · Score: 2

      You said it:
      "Use the best tool for the job".
      Saying this you have to give me the justification of WindowsCE/PPC running on a PDA.
      From a productive view, the whole application suite coming with PPC can not be considered being "productive". Having used Newtons for year and having seen Palm and EPOC PIM applications, I find PocketPC being very very limited.
      The only reason I can imagine why someone might be using WinCE is that more drivers are available and more software (of low quality) is being developed).
      Both reasons are because manufacturers are jumping after MS due to a limited view of alternatives.
      Looking at the Qtopia desktop running under Familiar linux with a 2.4.16 kernel on iPaqs, I have to say that it is getting better and better every day and that it is more productive than any PocketPC I have seen.
      And you have the chance to actively influence the development. MS wont give you that chance.

      Oliver

    4. Re:Running Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for the life of me i can't understand why you think that because someone does something YOU need to think it's useful. people do it for fun. deal with it.

    5. Re:Running Linux by Jimithing+DMB · · Score: 1

      Well, let me put it this way: when it all comes down to it a computer is a computer is a computer is really just a glorified calculator.

      A PDA is simply a computer with far less memory-- both volatile (e.g. RAM) and non-volatile (e.g. a hard-disk or flash ROM), a far slower processor, and a far smaller screen, etc.

      With any computer you need some sort of system in place that makes it easier to write applications and keep the system running. So many years ago we went from computers which started, ran a program, and stopped to computers which boot an operating system and run apps from there. So with any modern computer you need an OS. What exactly an OS is is somewhat hard to define. For our purposes lets say it is a kernel and other base services required to make using the device work as intended. For a PDA that's gonna be the kernel and some sort of API that allows programs to call into the kernel and also some sort of GUI interface for the PDA.

      Anyway, enough background info. The gist of it is that PalmOS was designed with an extremely limited computer in mind. The specs for a PalmPilot are something like a 20Mhz Motorola Dragonball (IIRC a close relative of the 68x00 series used in Macs before the PowerPC days), about a MB or so of ROM and about a MB or so of RAM. Palm also made some serious design choices to account for this very limited configuration. For one thing, there is no memory protection at all, so if you have a rogue application you'll need to unscrew the top of your stylus and use it to hit the Reset button. For another thing it doesn't scale worth a shit. It's basically limited to the very very very low-end device. So while this was a benefit in getting a reasonably priced working product out the door and opening up everyone's mind to a completely new type of computer, it is really a liability now. From what I understand, Palm is completely rewriting PalmOS so they can make it work with more modern hardware.

      WinCE was intended to be run on the more powerful PalmPC class of devices (renamed PocketPC due to lawsuits by Palm, Inc., dunno what the latest marketing name is now). Basically WinCE is a very very stripped down NT kernel. MS has even renamed it now (originally WinCE, then PocketWindows, now Windows XP embedded or something) to reflect that the newest release is a stripped down version of XP. Honestly, it is my understanding that Wince is really not that bloated. Now as you add features, you add code, but that's not necessarily bloat. Maybe feature-creep, but not bloat. Besides, it is up to the OEM to decide which features they include (well, to some extent like everything MS). All in all, Wince is not that bad of an OS from a technical standpoint.

      As for Linux, definitely a very cool solution for a PDA maker. Basically you can take whatever pieces you need and leave the rest behind. For the most part more along the lines of Wince than PalmOS.

      As far as doing what it was intended for, it's doing exactly what it was intended for, to manage the memory and provide services to applications. That's what an OS does. PalmOS does the same thing, manages memory and provides services to applications. It's just that PalmOS was specifically designed with a very specific set of requirements in mind. Like I said earlier, that has pros and cons.

      One notable difference between Wince and Linux (well, other than the obvious ones) is that I have never seen Wince running on a Palm device, while Linux does. The only Palm that Linux will not run on is the original PalmPilot. All the newer palms (III onward) can be made to run Linux. That right there should tell you just how much you can strip it down to get just the bare essentials for a very limited device and still have all the advantages such as standard POSIX programming APIs (a BIG plus). Honestly, I would expect to see a lot more Linux based PDAs coming up, although I won't expect to see it advertised as such. The great thing is that Linux can be made to work just as well as PalmOS on that style device and will scale up a bit and work with more features on a PocketPC style device. One notable exception is that I have no idea what the deal with Graffiti is. That is I think about the only remaining reason why Palm dominates.

      Anyway, it's late and definitely time to go to bed. It's been good posting some info for you (and whoever else cares to read it). Only downside that I see is that my original post in this thread got modded down a point for being overrated (i.e. from the default +1 to 0). Go figure, make an informative comment and get modded-down. On Slashdot??? NEVER! :-)

    6. Re:Running Linux by screwtheNSA · · Score: 0

      All thinking machines aside; I would entice the design "crews" to build a form equals function device, multi-os/platform with up/down scalability, OS independancy of course(It'll run ANY software). The uplaod/downloading is via a flashport connection IN the modem's comm-handling "CPU" that enables read/write directly to the PDA without resarting/Ctrl+Alt+Del finger dlustering. Backside access port/s have Z.I.Fs for firmware updates hidden under small "doors" so the unit stays active even during firmware updates. Modem: we MUST have copper conns. faster then the antiquated F.C.C max of 52K, anybody for USB/DSL modem INSIDE this thing? Lights/idiot and otherwise are NOT needed and consume valuable battery resources....no backlight either, HEY, it's supposed to be used in lighted areas, is it not? Or do many of you still have to get out the flashlight at bedtime and sneak your reading/web time under the blankets? Logic controllers for idle periods that maintain LOW quiescent current consumption while maintaining instant resume upon button touches. Main CPU used for WORK, microcontrollers used for all other routines(memory, cas/ras, strobe,timing and so on). Also, the display should be very low power consumption during use. 16-bit D/A converters for outputs, 12-bit A/Ds for keyed inputs/touchscreen/pen use here? While we're at it...let's add some codecs for multimedia okay? CMOS GPS RX in the case with a "cute" ceramic patch antenna for L1 reception. One could pack a lot of tech into a small space if it was designed right, and not filled with too much plastic.. Go 4+ layer boards, maybe piggyback the modem card on the CPU backplane and memory stick port/s. How about those juicy high-density connectors for a printer/CD/floppy or ???? Make THAT multimedia "compliant" as well. Oh, while we're at it...toss in a cheap-ass Nokia cellphone for the kiddies to call home on. These are a few of my ideas about making use of user interfaces such as the ubiquitous PDA of late. The GEEK-PUTER of the 21 and 1/100th century!

      --
      206.39.38.2, DDN-BLK-36, DOD NET INFO CENTER. 800.365.3642 206.36.0.0-206.39.255.255 NET RANGE.
  20. Re:Sounds nice but..... by ruiner5000 · · Score: 1

    I think the FIC Aquapad blows it away. Midori Linux, wireless, infrared, multimedia support, IBM Microdrive support. I'm kissing my Iopener goodbye.

    --
    ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
  21. spelling by JurassicJoe · · Score: 1

    Y'know, opinion is one of the most commonly mis-spelt words...

  22. has enough guts to be a router by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just needs a couple of ethernet ports

  23. Re: I agree (I have an E-100) by nikoftime · · Score: 2, Informative

    As a premise for this post, I had owned a Casio model E-100 for roughly 2 years until last week when I traded with a friend for his Palm III.

    Quite simply, I decided that the E-100 lacked true portability. This new device, and all others from non Palm or Handspring vendors, tend to simply be very large and cumbersome.

    What I love about the Palm is the ability for me to put it in my shirt pocket and not have it way that down. Though this may seem trivial, it is very important to me as I generally would rather not have a large device in my pants pocket (Aside from the obvious "device" already there).

    Anyway, I what I think needs to happen is that designers should take a look at a device like the Rex (remember that? It was a PCMCIA card that had a screen and PIM apps on it) and attempt to improve on that. A simple color screen shouldn't increase size overall too much, but would increase definition and clarity quite a bit. There seems to be a fairly large market for people who want simple, cheap PIM and PDA devices without hundreds of MB of storage, wireless networking, a Pentium IV processor and other crazy stuff that simply doesn't belong. Anyone out there with investment capital and some friends with engineering degrees listening?

  24. Is it REALLY a better mousetrap? by Christopher+B.+Brown · · Score: 3, Insightful
    • I keep being amused (and a little disgruntled!) that the 225MHz StrongARM of about three years ago is still the same "205 MHz StrongARM" that they keep deploying on these little critters.

      I realize that the 16 MHz DragonBall chips are still pretty sufficient for coping with storing addresses, notes, and the likes; it's just irritating that it's stayed at the same speed for so long.

    • On the up-side, it moves from having a mere 16MB of RAM to having 64MB of RAM.

      That's probably enough to start moving towards doing some "real" work, although if you want more than 15 minutes worth of MP3s, you'll still have to wait for the 256MB model.

      I don't think these get to be truly better "mousetraps" until they have a pretty serious amount of storage space.

    • The "StrongARM-based" PDAs have been around for a while, and the ones that you'd actually want always cost about $600 USD, which is a whopping lot more than a not-quite-disposable Whichever-Palm-has Gotten Cheap .

      A year ago, it made sense that the iPAQ was expensive as an 'early-adopter" product; the continuing-to-be-hefty price is not particularly attractive.

    • Woo-hoo! It runs Linux!

      I think it's pretty cool and all that IBM has built a wrist-watch that runs Linux; that doesn't forcibly grip me as being fundamentally important.

      PalmOS is old enough that it may be getting "old in the tooth;" it's still pretty much useful enough. (Except for playing MP3s, but it's cheaper to get a recent Diamond Rio for that...)



    A new model from another maker may be News for Nerds, but I have to wonder if it's really Stuff that matters.

    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    1. Re:Is it REALLY a better mousetrap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a moron.

    2. Re:Is it REALLY a better mousetrap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drop in an IBM Microdrive (1GB!) and store enough MP3s to keep you amused on any cross country flight. Whats that, connectivity(?), swap in a wireless CF card (802.11b) and update your favorite mazingo sites. Lost? Stick in the GPS CF card and copilot or destinator software and have a BETTER voice directed GPS system than came in our Benz.

      How about bluetooth, MPEG-4 support (wireless!), expandable storage and memory, tons of user hacks, lots of shareware stuff.

  25. Translation: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I just talked to someone claiming to be a chick on IRC and I want to show off.

  26. Re:Gourmet Taco Sauce! Mmm, mm, good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    here is a little trolling song i have created. i hope you like it. feel free to add your comments. thanks a bunch!

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  27. Think of it as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Everyone I know that has made the jump to pocketPC (from palm, laptops, etc) have all found their own justification and all could not go back (exclusively) to the laptop they used to use. Some of the comments I have heard from people lately.

    An IPOD with a real screen that can play movies as well.

    A laptop that fits in your shirt pocket. At least 10 times faster than my old palm IIIc.

    an email terminal that goes where you go, has connectivity as good as my laptop, and is so small that I will actually bring it with me everywhere (unlike my laptop)

    a game machine that shames most pocket game machines and can also play mp3s.

    A portable gps, mp3 player, movie player, presentation device, and portable storage unit that fits in my pocket.

    Its a great tool for astronomy. (starry night plus direct control of a telescope)

    The new GSM module from compaq is going to change the way I work..
    http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10903_ ca /10903_ca.PDF

    If you have not checked out all of the latest features/addons/upgrades for the pocketpc handhelds, you might be impressed at just how much they can do. They are not a replacement for a laptop but then you can't always take a laptop with you, nor would you want to.

    Entertainment, wireless/remote access, data storage/retreival, all in a device that runs for days of normal usage on a single charge and is fast enough to run real applications.

  28. Re:Gourmet Taco Sauce! Mmm, mm, good! by FrostedChaos · · Score: 1

    That was very good. Now sit down and wipe the drool from around your mouth.

    --
    "Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
  29. Little Better by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 2

    Wow. I like it. Xircom certainly had the right form factor. But evidently they lacked the right marketing. I did not even know this awesome product existed. Shame on me.

    Looks like Citizen is also on the right track. I cannot read Japanese, but evidently they are showing a full function PDA that is about half the size of a Palm V (little bigger than Rexx). I want it!

    http://ascii24.com/news/i/topi/article/2001/11/07/ 631059-000.html

    They also demo a PDA watch but that will catch on as much as calculator watches and pocket protectors. We all have those right?

    --

    --- -- - -
    Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
    1. Re:Little Better by srichman · · Score: 1
      Looks like Citizen is also on the right track.
      Actually, Citizen made the PDA that the Rex 6000 is based on. It's called the DataSlim 2 (DS2) and is still available in Japan. Citizen licensed the DS2 to Xircom.
  30. Why on earth would you bother... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Running linux on a PDA... It seems to me that is totally unsuited to the task.

  31. Goody; more hardware costs... by Christopher+B.+Brown · · Score: 2
    How much is it going to cost to get the unit to do that stuff?

    I'd argue that while the machine (and its near competitors) are "overpowered" for doing the things a Palm does, they're underpowered with regard to the new sorts of applications such as music playing and wireless.

    How much will it cost to get it "up to scratch?"

    • A couple hundred dollars for 802.11b is OK for use maybe at home and at the office; how mobile it is elsewhere is another question...
    • How much is the GB of disk?
    • GPS has got to cost a couple hundred...


    It would be unsurprising if making the unit "useful" pushes the price up well over $1K. That is rather pricey...
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
  32. General observation by biglig2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It should perhaps be pointed out to those not watching this market closely (just went thru a pda upgrade cycle meself) that after the sucess of the ipaq 36xx every single Pocket PC manufacturer is going for an ipaq clone as the PockerPC 2002. This is not anything spcial or surprising that they are doing.

    So they all have memory slots, tft screens, expansion capabilities of some sort, 206MHz processors. People are even throwing away their USPs to get on the ipaq bandwagon - the older casios were famed for high quality of their reflective screens. Now they're TFT too.

    There are differences of course, but it's thinkgs like size, form factor, how much in the way of accessories are ut there, battery life.

    Oh, and what did I pick? Palm M500. Does everything I need in a box that is so tiny I can barely tell if its in my pocket or not and that costs £200 instead of £500.

    OK, doesn't run Linux and it doesn't really do multimedia. Mind you, that £300 difference will buy me rather a lot of MP3 player ;-) And failing to get the sound to work on my thinkpad 600 under Linux meets my cursing needs.

    --
    ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    1. Re:General observation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, Microsoft made that rule. The original PocketPC had MIPS, SH3, and StrongARM processors, and there had to be binaries for all of them. MS, evidently, is simplifying the process by standardizing on one 'platform'.

      Of course, the original HP (with the SH3) and the original Casio (with the MIPS) are just out of luck with the new software, since only the Compaq (with its StrongARM) was flashable anyway. In fact, those first generation Compaqs can flash to the new Pocket PC 2002 OS. The other two are just destined to become paperweights.

    2. Re:General observation by nuOpus · · Score: 1

      They are not doing it because they are imitating the IPAQ! They all have the same button arrangement because Microsoft is trying to standardize on hardware for the developers and have said such arrangement in their PPC2002 papers! As for the speaker in the button though ... that is a IPAQ imitation ... but the button arrangement kind of has to be followed. 2 buttons on both side of scroll.

  33. brighthand.com review by davidhan · · Score: 1

    brighthand.com also has a review of the new Casio e-200. Generally they liked the new model, but thougth the new look, which resembles the iPaq I think, is less attractive than other Casios, like the e-500, which had more of a gameboy-style button arrangement.

  34. PocketPC wins (it's the recognizer) by chriswaco · · Score: 1

    The one big thing missing from all Linux and Palm handhelds is good handwriting recognition.

    The latest PocketPCs have a very good recognizer called Transcriber which makes the devices infinitely easier to use. It's the first one I've used that compares favorably with the Newton 2000 one.

    Unless Calligrapher or some other decent recognizer is available under Linux, Microsoft is going to win this battle.

    Microsoft is doing what they always do -- incrementally improving and adding features to their operating system over time. If/when they add real printer drivers to WinCE, it'll actually be a useful OS. The UI needs some work, but it's Microsoft so you can't really expect that.

  35. 206mhz? multimediduh. by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

    People like watching little movies on their pda's, with the complexity of a format like divx, 206mhz seems about right. When we have 2ghz, and 3ghz in dual desktops, 206mhz sound good for a pda.

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
  36. side note my butt by feldsteins · · Score: 1

    The mainstream slashdot crowd (if there can be said to be such a thing) is so funny. They way we're all pretending that we're terribly interested in this little handlheld device "just because" and as an afterthought it's neat-0 that it might run Linux!

    Reality check here - if this thing didn't have the potential to run Linux the story wouldn't have been written and hardly a soul here would have cared about it anyway.

    Just an observation.

    --
    You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
  37. You must be new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that as Microsoft shills and astroturfers we're supposed to convey our information in these forums. However, simply copying our p-data sheet into the text box isn't doing a good job.

    Try to engage one of the regular posters in conversation and drop one or two of these data points in your posts. Don't blow your wad on your first post! There's no hurry, especially if you're new. Just lurk for a while and try to get a handle on the ebb and flow of conversation here. Try to become a respected member of the community. Do you have a /. ID yet? Please use it as soon as you feel comfortable.

    Anyway, this simply boils down to "use some common sense". Don't embarrass us.

  38. Nobody's gonna fuckin' put linux on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody's gonna fuckin' put linux on it, dumass!

  39. If Palm survives. by Rog7 · · Score: 1

    No CEO, severe layoffs and a limited kernel license adds up to a pretty big "if" on Palm making a comeback. It's a shame, but let's have a reality check here, PalmOS isn't going much farther.

  40. Not the same thing by Rog7 · · Score: 1

    Either you're on acid or you have a severe problem with depth perception. The Casio E-200 is a moderate sized handheld while the FIC Aquapad is a web-tablet.

    You aren't going to carry the Aquapad around in your pocket, you probably won't even put it in your breifcase. Might as well say that your desktop already blows it away.

  41. With a mind like that ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... you must work in the M$ FUD department.

  42. pda's will be like calculators withing five years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They'll be cheap and your insurance agent will give you one with their name on it or it'll be available in your cereal boxes.


    --I'll wait for digital camera's/digital phones(with ethernet capabilities of coarse) to include pda functionality before i'll shell out 200$ on a glorfied calculator.