Slashdot Mirror
My Neighbor Totoro and Ebert
peter_gzowski writes "Well known film critic and closet otaku, Roger Ebert, has a bi-weekly segment on his website where he reminisces about the greatest films of all time (in his opinion, anyway). The most recent installment covers My Neighbor Totoro. This is the second anime to make the list, joining Grave of the Fireflies. For those unfamiliar, Totoro is a film by anime master Hayao Miyazaki, the man behind Princess Mononoke, amoung many other great films (Castle of Cagliostro being my favorite)."
Always pleased to see anime get more mainsream cred. And Miyazaki always deserves it.
I must admit, I've never gotten into anime. Would those who have recommend this as a good place to start?
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
I agree to a point. It also seems so stereotypically geeky, which isn't so problematic when viewed as a art form, but when it seems to become lustful over two dimension female cartoon characters, then it is just a bit *odd*. I just have found traditional film to be much more interesting. That isn't to say I won't get into anime at some point, but I have found hitchcock and kurosawa more interesting and entertaining so far.
ostiguy
For those of you who don't yet know, Disney has NO plans to release any more of Miyazaki's films, despite owning the US distribution rights to 11 of his films.
There's a petition here to get Disney to at least release some of these films on home video.
Disney's position is based on the poor performance of Princess Mononoke in the US. That release grossed just over $2 million in the US (it grossed over $150 million in Japan). However, it should be noted that Princess Mononoke was a limited release (I drove over 150 miles to see it - twice!), with little advertising before it came out.
There is hope however. A previous petition convinced Disney to add the Japanese language track and literal English translation to the DVD relese of Mononoke.
---------------
Vpered na Mars!
Have you even seen Princess Mononoke? Ghost in the Shell? (The anime that inspired The Wachowski Brothers to create the Matrix)
Personally I don't watch that much anime, but I've read a lot of mangas. Anyway, I think you're grossly oversimplifying in your judgement. Sure there are some very bad animes, just like there are bad movies. But you cannot judge animes as a whole, you have to judge each individual movie on it's own.
Ahem.
So you think panty flashes of little girls in ADULT movies is ok, and in kids movies its perverse. Hmmmm...me thinks you got this one backwards. And why in hell did soeone uptick your comment? Sheez
Anyone can, if they want, find something bad about something you like. I like anime because I think it is a refreshing change from the dreck that spills from American studios. Yes, some anime is boring, and badly translated, and badly drawn, and some people know WAY too much about it, but everything is the same way.
How many people lined up in the cold to buy tickets for Lord of the Rings? Or Harry Potter? Or to go to a Baptist revival? Or a book signing? Or a software convention? Or.... You get the idea.
For most people, television and movies are passive entertainment. For the obsessed, however, it becomes active. Instead of just seeing something, the begin to live it. Anime is not alone in this. Witness the Trekkie phenomena, or the following some soap operas have. For otakus (a term which, in Japan, carries a strong negative connotation) of any sort, the world on the screen is real.
The point is that nearly everyone has something they obsess over, whether they do it quietly or not. It's not fair to condemn someone just because they happen to like something that you don't.
-----------
From the website of Rev. Jim Huber, Heretic
---------------
Vpered na Mars!
I dont' know what flamebait is, and what it is not. I always feel a good debate is relevant, and that flaming can be artistic, as when William Buckley and Gore Vidal go at it, or Alex Cockburn and Chris Hitchens.
Let me instead address a couple of small points here, in hopes the poster really wanted some insights, rather than merely rhetorical venting only (which is their right, of course).
1. "Then I grew up." Well, being what I consider a sorcerer (in the Alan Moore/Grant Morrison sense of the term, or if you like, the Evrett/Wheeler/Graham model, grin), I think it is crucial to make distinction between childish and child-like behaviours. I would hope to lose the former, and never, even at teh advanced age of 48 here, ever, lose the child-like wonder and magick I still find when I visit the worlds of Kiki and Totoro and yeah, even Pooh. Those are nice worlds, utopian, and we maybe ought to try to make OUR world more like them. As to showing these things, as Goedel says, when we show things as they ARE, we make them LEss than they are.
2. AS to the xenophobic views, and the hideous work till you drop culture, i am in accord with disagreement with those values. However, and this puzzles me, the anime I speak of, Kiki's Delivery Service and Totoro, say, seem to me to teach toleration, tolerance, and the value of dolce fa niente, to mix cultural metaphors.
3. Use that energy to create? Yes...and no. By all means anyone who ONLY consumes and does not create is not doing all they could be doing to make our world better and more aesthetic. However, what good is a gift with no recipient, as my sifu would say? We must each be both creator and audience, in our turns, so that we may all make magick, and all EXPERIENCE it from others, and thereby inspire and draw inspiration by turns.
4. Obsession. By all means, anyone who obsesses about anything needs to broaden their horizons. HOwever, I would forgive obsession with sweet utopian benign materials before i would forgive obsession with vindictive acts, for example. Triage sir, triage!
Thank you for this forum. I am aware that the internet is a place for flaming and debate, and I love those. But I also love discourse of a gentlemanly and noblesse oblige nature. I hope that some of these observations might engnder some reasonabl replies, or rebuttles, as well as any flames. Thanks again, Zanvil
Alot of people are going to think that you are starting a flamewar. Some people get way too fanatical about anime. Being someone who likes *some* anime, I can find a few problems with your conclusions.
In order to cast vague generalizations, you must meet some criteria. Namely, that you have watched every single anime ever made. As this is unrealistic (and a waste of time) I'm going to prove by counterexample.
Another thing to keep in mind; just like in North America, some shows just suck. Will people still make the effort to bring sucky shows from Japan to North America? Yes. In fact, several animation translation firms have made alot of money doing this. *cough*animego*cough* *cough*disney*cough* *cough*vizvideo*cough*
Reductio ad absurdum:
1) Bad stories
My Neighbour Totoro doesn't even have a story. Or conflict. In fact, it's aimed at people about 6 years old, and is just a strange sequence of random events.
2) Bad animation, jerkiness with poor color composition
This is not true of all anime. For example, Cowboy Bebop had some of the nicest artwork and detail I've seen in years. Macross Plus is also up there.
3) Bad translations of
If you're watching it with english dialog, yeah. If you're willing to read subtitles, the translation quality will typically increase several times.
4) Bad dialogue
Some things simply can't be translated from Japanese to English. Having studied the language formally for a year, I can sometimes see when the English translation just doesn't cut it. Also, if the anime is geared at 10-year-olds, odds are it will sound lame in any language.
5) A bunch of people OBSESSED with this shit to a sickening point.
I hear that! I'm so sick to death of people whining about how much money they don't have because they *MUST* go to convention Y and spend $5,000,000 on trinkets. Let's get some perspective here.
And for all those posts in this thread that start with "Wai! Wai!"... YOU ARE NOT JAPANESE! STOP FOOLING YOURSELF. SAYING STUPID THINGS DOES NOT MAKE YOU JAPANESE. YOU WILL NEVER BE JAPANESE.
"Nobody should enjoy WATCHING something that much, you should save your fanaticism for creating things."
Agreed. In the last week, I've watched about half an hour of TV. In the past year, I don't think I've topped 24 hours. It's amazing how much more I can accomplish when I'm not tied to the idiot box.
I await the flames.
Beware TPB
Okay, let's take these criticisms one at a time. Hopefully, I can get you to see my point of view- not change yours. You are welcome to your opinion; just hear mine out.
n d that they can't see the social criticism in Trek. (Not that Trek is alone in that.)
1) Bad stories
Methinks you have been watching too much Toonami. Yes, you watch a few eps of what CN puts on and you'll think "gawd what garbage!" But switch over to Friends and seriously compare the plot depth. Same for Buffy; now I'm serious here!! Think about it- there are, according to dramatists, less than a dozen basic plot lines (they'll give you different answers according to their view, but noone I know goes over about 10). And on top of that, you're viewing this across a cultural chasm (little bit deeper & wider than a generation gap). Sure, you might have to watch the same thing once or twice, but once you've build some sort of mental bridge you'll see that maybe, just maybe, some of this is deeper than American film. (Princess Mononoke comes to mind; similar enough to Aesop's tales you might find it a jumpable region, yet also a good film on just its' own merits.)
2) Bad animation, jerkiness with poor color composition
Hmm... two words. Abstract Art. Yes, you might not think it's 'real art' (I sure don't) but apparently it is to some people. After all, culture truly is a fluid thing and perhaps someday realism may be considered childish art. (But I truly doubt it.)
3) Bad translations [there]of
Hmmm. Define 'bad'. Are these translations literal? Most certainly not; but I'd like to see a literal translation preserve the humor of a pun. (Can't be done, except in exceptional cases). Also refer back to point one- that cultural chasm might keep you from understanding a word-for-word translation. True-to-intent translations? Perhaps; I'm not fluent in any language but English, so I've no real grounds to say. All I can say is: if it really is a bad translation, keep up the good work-- I enjoy what anime I've seen.
4) Bad dialogue
5) A bunch of people OBSESSED with this shit to a sickening point.
I'm going to deal both of these one swift blow. Ever been to a Star Trek convention?? I haven't, really, but I did attend Dragon*Con in Atlanta-- general sci-fi but still the point holds. I may enjoy Trek as much as the next geek, but I don't go out and buy the uniform and the badge and tricorder and makeup kits and wear all of it to every convention held. Some people do. Obsession is (IMHO- this is not a statement of fact) hardwired into today's American (if not general Western) culture because of the popularism ('be-like-us' Borg attitude). And after looking hard at trekkies talk to a non-trekkie- they sure as shooting won't 'get it' and the most cultured of them (nye kultoorni! Literal Translation: uncultured! or perhaps, with context: BARBARIANS!) will tell you that the dialog is soooooo hakneyed. Perhaps it is, but that does nothing to diminish the good parts. But these poor souls are so caught up in either critical examination of the medium or interest in what's-the-latest-brand-worn-by-the-latest-boy-ba
And so in conclusion: hopefully I have answered your question. If you haven't read between the lines and gotten the point, I'll spell it out. We like anime because it is a different take on drama- one not supported by live action nor explored by western animators. If you do not understand this, you are free to find your entertainment elsewhere.
Do you like Japanese imports?
It's already out on DVD in Japan (NTSC, Region2).
It's a 2 DVD pack with the film on the first DVD wit English and Japanese Audio. On the second DVD you have extra features which are not always with an English audio track. Just look at www.amazon.co.jp.
I ordered it from them, but ist was quite expensive and shipping was slow.(Got to know at least Katakana to find it)
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
I often agree with him, and even when I disagree I can usually respect his opinions. Being a Mystery Science Theatre 3000 fan I bought his "I hated, hated, HATED this movie".
:)
Most of it was laugh out loud stuff, but really didn't agree with his slagging of
a) Clive Barker's Hellraiser. Ebert listed lots of "plotholes" that were actually misunderstandings of the movie from his side. He also seemed very upset with the S/M and anti-religious themes and mocked those who call the film a classic. Well, it IS a classic damnit!
b) Priest. Again he seemed very prudish. His main objection is that joining the priesthood and taking a vow of celibacy is a voluntary choice, so claiming that you are opressed later for that or because you are gay is just PC whining. Maybe - but giving such a well written, acted and well shot film such a low score just because of that? One suspects he is subconsciously offended by the topic of the movie and the way it portrayed the Catholic church.
On the other hand, I really liked how he butchered these two films, so I guess it evens out:
a) Armageddon. "The movie is an assault on the eyes, the ears, the brain, common sense, and the human desire to be entertained. No matter what they're charging to get in, it's worth more to get out."
b) Starship Troopers. "The action sequences are heavily laden with special effects, but curiously joyless. We get the idea right away: Bugs will jump up, troopers will spray counless rounds at them, the Bugs will impale troopers with their spiny giant legs, and finally dissolve in a spray of goo. Later there are refinements, like fire-breathing beetles, flying insects, and giant Bugs that erupt from the earth. All very elaborate, but not interesting in the way, say, that the villains in the Alien pictures were. Even their planet is boring; Bugs live on ugly rock worlds with no other species, raising the question of what they eat."
And he also made me aware of some weak spots in films I really liked and made me re-evaluate them, for instance Blue Velvet, Doom Generation, Dead Poets Society, Caligula.
Well, getting back to Totoro I must say it sounds interesting. I wish I had read this review before Christmas, it would have been a good present for my brother's kids, and then I would have had an excuse to see it too.
:)
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
I will agree that anime stories tend to be confusing to the point of torture or nonexistent.
Although, when an anime story is written clearly, I believe it is usually experience I cannot find anywhere else. That is why I watch anime. The good anime usually overflows with creative and imaginative characters and environments.
I see you are a fan of the classic Warner Brothers cartoons. I remember when they were xenophobic and sometimes blatantly hateful to minorities. I remember for a time there was a stereotypical Aunt Jemima type character in Tom and Jerry.
I do agree that some Japanese need to improve on there veiw of the gaijin, but you cannot generalize the Japanese people based on your closed minded views.
Also the jerkiness is not necessarily a bad thing. The anime style is cheaper to make than the american style.
I see you are a fan of the classic Warner Brothers cartoons. I remember when they were xenophobic and sometimes blatantly hateful to minorities.
Anyone ever see the Japanese stereotypes done by WB during WW2? Amazingly offensive.
Most of time I don't like post like mine now, but here it is different. An anonymous coward posted a really important information for all ghibli fans out there, and very likely most people won't notice him because it has a score of 0.
You don't have to be registered at amazon.com or have your credit card information ready, in fact you must just enter you email address and amazon.com will send you an email when the disc will be released. You don't really preorder, if you enter your mail address there, you just tell them that you would very likely buy a dvd of this title if it becomes aviable. These films are really wonderfull, please help that they get a dvd release in english language.
Jan
This was the first anime I'd seen since Robotech when I was 5. It made me cry. Grab a box of kleenex or two before watching it.
The sad fact is, Disney acquired the Ghibli rights mainly for all the yen they'll get for the japanese releases as a distributor, not for any US DVD release - heck, they don't even *have* the DVD rights for anything but Monoke, last I checked. And Miyazaki doesn't give a rat's ass about whether his work is released overseas (which, frankly, is his prerogative and I can't complain). So, if you wanna see Ghibli flicks on disc, I highly recommend a multi-region player.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
"Kiki's Delivery Service" was the target of the CWA (Concerned Women for America). You can read their "press release" here.(1)
7
(1): http://www.imasy.or.jp/~fukumoto/n/nshow.cgi?2069
--
You know, I almost agreed with you until you made your arguments universal. Yes, there are some real freaks out there - there are some real freaks in here too - does that mean the internet sucks? Agreed, most anime is crap, and somehow the crap manages to maintain a substantial following (I remember trying to watch the pilot episode of something called "nurse angel" egad that was painful) but there is a good volume of good stuff out there, just like there are always a few episodes of star trek that are fun to watch.
Besides, you're posting on slashdot. Odds are, half the world finds you just as scary.
Miyazaki is a master story teller, and for those who are willing to embrace the media they are in for an emotional ride. Some might never find it interesting at all, others like me will be amazed by the stories he tells. It's a shame that Studio Ghibli themselves are not subtitling and dubbing (even though I will never be able to stand them) the movies to release them into the west.
So to give you all a chance to have something to do until the next installment of LotR, go out and see if you can find one of Miyazaki's movies and maybe, just maybe, you can also find what I found, a treasure worth keeping in your heart.
Totoro is an unqualified masterpiece in my semi-informed opinion (I'm a CG animator). Even beyond the constraints of the imaginary cat-owl-bear genre. :) I've inflicted it on any number of friends and acquaintances, always with happy results.
At SIGGRAPH two years ago I was fortunate enough to see a presentation by a Ghibli AD in which he talked the audience through a bunch of scenes from this movie. "Here," he would say (through his translator), about a scene where the younger daughter picks flowers in the garden and stands on tiptoe to put them on the edge of her father's desk while he is working, "everything in the scene is intended to emphasize the innocence of Mai and the fatherliness of her father." Or waiting at a bus stop: "We kept the camera here for two more seconds to give the proper sense of spacial composition in time." (I've heard people call it slow, but I blame MTV fast-cut editing for salting the earth for more subtle techniques.) Amazing work.
Miyazaki himself is a gruff, chain-smoking perfectionist by all reports, but he writes some beautiful stuff, the acting is subtle, some of the backgrounds look like Maxfield Parish, in Totoro for once the dubbing is excellent, and the whole is greater than any description of the elements can convey.
YMMV, but I hope not.
Flame me if you want, but I've given up on Disney ever releasing any more Ghibli films. They've been sitting on a ready-to-release version of Laputa for over a year now. I don't think it will ever be released, in any form.
Don't worry, I've spent plenty on official Ghibli merchandise: I've given over a dozen copies of both Totoro and Kiki as gifts; I've bought at least two Ghibli calendars per year for the last five years; I own multiple copies of Mononoke and GoF; I've bought plenty of other official merchandise. I've even preordered the Laputa DVD on Amazon.
Basically, at this point I say "Fuck Disney." They've had their chance to get my money. They missed out.
I'm sorry Ghibli doesn't get any procedes from my purchase of the Archives of Ghibli Studios DVD set. I understand the ramifications. But now I have a complete set of English subtitled Ghibli movies to enjoy and share.
BTW, the Archives of Ghibli Studios set is very nicely done: Letterboxed; reasonably well done subtitles; a few chapter stops. I'm very glad I bought it.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
I just caught Miyazaki's latest film
Hey, AC, you can't get away with such a brief statement!!!
Where and how? My understanding was that Disney was running away in fear, and the link you provided only indicates French and Japanese release dates. Is there an English dubbed version?
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Hmmm. Look's more like Concerned Fundamentalist Women. They trash "Kiki" because it portrays "witches" in a favorable light. Can't have that.
Miyazaki's newest film, "Sen to Chihiro no Kami Kakushi". Just came out in Japan. I think the English title is "Spirited Away" or something like that.
I saw it in the theater. Absolutely spactacular.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Funny you should mention that.
The bucho of my department, a 50-year old guy with only half his teeth, has a Totoro screen saver. I'm looking at it right now.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
So... Little girls showing thier underpants is unusual? I reckon you don't have any daughters then. ;)
Seriously, I don't think it was meant as any kind of a turn-on, just as cute realism.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Hear Ye!
It's so tempting for me to lose patience with people who see Totoro as 'slow', but it takes a while, I suppose, to get acclimated to a way of storytelling which often places as much emphasis on the spaces 'between the notes' as it does to scenes or moments of frantic activity. Those beats and pauses are very intentional and very Japanese, and immensely effective once you get over the ingrained Western horror of silence and subtlety.
The bus-stop scene with the droplets of water on the 'umbrella' is priceless.
Ne?
Laputa has a similar appeal, in a format that is more appealing to those who squirm uncomfortably in the absence of giant flying robots.
As long as it is, I just wish that Laputa was a bit longer...in the quiet parts. After awakening on the cloud city, I'd like to see an entire hour devoted to the characters quietly exploring an unconvering the ancient and overgrown wonders of the city. As it is, the sence of quiet majesty is a bit too quickly dispelled by the reappearance of the antagonists and the main story line. Great movie tho', and a must see if you can find it. I have it in Japanese, but I don't know if it's available with subtitles...
**>>BELCH
Well known film critic and closet otaku, Roger Ebert
AFAIK, otaku is Japanese for geek.
Always watch Anime in Japanese with subtitles instead of listening to dubs into English. This isn't snobbery, it's just that the American voice actors just read the script placed in front of the them and never, never, never bother to understand the meaning that script. Even when the script they're given is good, the actors do everything wrong.
Part of the problem is that Japan, like much of the world, has years of experience dubing English shows into Japanese and so they have wonderful voice actors, while we, in our English-only isolation, have no need for good voice actors. Another problem is that the dubbing is usually done by very small companies on the cheap. They just shovel stuff onto a DVD and release it.
I've also noticed that learning a little bit of a language can add a lot to watching a foriegn movie, because there are lots of words that don't really translate at all. If you enjoy Anime it's worth while getting a Japanese dictionary.
Rocky J. Squirrel
Well, I got to see a large chunk of Miyazaki's work in 1999. I saw Totoro, Laputa, and Porco Rosso. They showed Nausicaa and Lapin aka Castle of Cagliostro. IIRC, they also showed Mononoke a week before Disney's release.
The thing about Totoro that most people don't understand is it is, like most of Miyazaki's work, heavy on the relationships of its characters. In Totoro's case this manifests itself in how the children are able to cope with their mother's hospitalization. Of course, the theme of nature and man's role in interacting with it also appears in Totoro and is one of the main themes throughout Miyazaki's work, especially Monoke, Laputa and Nausicaa.
Unlike a lot of anime, Miyazaki films almosy always have the following characteristics:
1. themes of man vs nature
2. strong characterization
3. a female protagonist that is not simply a man with curves
4. some kind of awesome planes (miyazaki loves planes and flight)
I'll gladly watch some Miyazaki work, but most anime does blow, either being mindless drivel as an excuse for combat, or highly abstract crap trying to be philosophical (the highly acclaimed Neon Genesis Evangelion was a pain to watch for me) while justbeing boring.
Miyazaki manages to write stories that successfully entertain kids and adults alike. He is a perfectionist that actually allows that to work for him and not agianst him.
It is too bad that Disney won't release a lot of their films to the home video market. But they do the same thing with Chinese films as well.
The reason it is considered bad is that(according to my japanese professor) there was a guy who killed a number of people in japan and he was "otaku" and was really in to anime and had a ton of tapes. As a result a bad meaning got attached to the word.
There is that, but the enduring problem with otaku is that they never leave their house, hence the name.
Reboot macht Frei.
I rented Totoro for my boys (4 and 2) since they like all kinds of movies. I was hoping they'd really dig it and then I could use it as an excuse to beef up *my* collection.
They liked what they saw but I liked it even more when I watched it later that night in peace and quiet!
On Grave of the Fireflies: I read Ebert's comments on this one months ago and found a SunCoast with it in stock. I bought it, took it home, watched it (subbed of course), and now I don't know if I can watch it again with my wife, who wants to see it. That movie really hit me hard.
GTRacer
- Still looking for non-pirated Lain Lunchbox set...
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
I've shopped there and a few other places. Nevertheless, it irratates me to no end that a lot of movies won't/can't be shown here because some MNC just sits on them.
Unfortunately, you can't screen a DVD or VHS format. I volunteer for a group that shows actual Chinese *films* and is in danger of going under like so many Chinese theaters because there's so little content that can be screened now.
I suspect the reason that distributors (seems to be mostly Sony/Columbia and Disney/Miramax) are holding the rights to the film for US release is they see a potential profit. The fact that some of these films *could* generate a large amount of profit (such as Crouching Tiger...) yet most don't (such as most Jackie Chan or Iron Monkey) makes them even more nervous and uncertain.
I know of very few commercials for Crouching Tiger here in the US when it was released and yet it did great business despite being subtitled. At the same time, Disney released Mononoke using the same lack of advertising and yet dubbed it. They made no money.
I suspect the real issue is like you said, quality. There are some great films outside the US and a lot of crap. Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy it. And if I was Asian or a college student I certainly would like to have a venue for seeing cinema from another country. But Hollywood is locking it all away for their Region 1, dubbed and re-editted DVDs.
Best of luck to you. If you are in the Twin Cities area be sure to check out Cinema with Passion before it goes away. (http://www.amamedia.org/movies/)