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Commercialization Of The Internet

Anonymous Coward writes "For those anti-corporate tech-heads out there, Excite is running an article about how companies are taking over the net through the use of the courts, trademarks and deep pockets. From the article, 'Big corporations have a significant and growing presence on the Internet. In March, just 14 companies controlled 60 percent of users' online time, down from 110 companies two years earlier, Jupiter Media Metrix found.' A final thought from the article, 'This is the last remaining communications medium that allows the small person to participate,' said Barbara Simons, past president of the Association for Computing Machinery. 'To lose that would be a great tragedy.'"

44 of 340 comments (clear)

  1. What I loved about the net.. by TheDick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In even the fairly recent "past" (1994?) was how any jow schmoe with some university webspace was on equal footing with a multinational. Not anymore. Granted, the net has a lot more USE now, I mean, its more than just a passion for tech oriented young men, but we've lost the edge we once had. I'm sure everyone knows this, and I will get modded redundant, but who cares. I want the old school URL's back. Shit like www.university.edu/physicsdep/387434/2w0843273/geo rge.html

    --

    1. Re:What I loved about the net.. by swright · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hey look, those things are still there.... the only thing reports like this show are that there are more companies on the net, and more muppets spending their whole lives looking at them...

      That doesnt stop everyone having a say and it doesnt stop the weird and wonderful having its place.

      That only happens when big business _changes_ things - but thats a whole different story....

    2. Re:What I loved about the net.. by awkwardone · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I also loved the drab gray backgrounds, the blue hyperlinks, the simple HR tag, Times New Roman font, and the content. People actually seemed to have intelligent things to say. Pages were just loaded chock full of information. It was functional and reliable, though not completely pretty.

      Seems today that people have forgone functionality for looks and Shockwave and JavaScript and other fun stuff. The Statusbar alteration got annoying about 20 minutes after it was invented, much like the BLINK tag.

      I think it'd be neat to see retro Web sites. Although one can find them just by looking deep within university Web sites and search engines. Or we could just simplify and go back to when tables were the hot new thing.

      Oh yeah, one more thing I loved about the Internet back only five years ago when I started: no pop-up x10 ads!

      --
      www.tealeaves.org "All you need is love." -
    3. Re:What I loved about the net.. by mboedick · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I too remember the days when sites were distinguished mostly by what they had to say and what content they offered instead of who has the prettiest graphics or the coolest Flash.

      It would also be nice if every site could drop back into that mode and still be usable, which is entirely possible using stylesheets, standards-compliant markup, etc. If I can look at a site with stylesheets and images turned off, in black Times font on battleship grey background, with blue and purple links, and the site still says something to me and gives me a reason to go there, then I know it's a worthwhile site.

      You can make a fairly spiffy looking web page by starting like that and using stylesheets to add color, change fonts, and do positioning.

      Like building a house and then painting it, instead of trying to build a house out of paint.

  2. I think they forgot about the industry shakeout by MtViewGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason why 14 companies control that much of the Internet access today is the fact these are the companies that have survived and have the resources to support large numbers of users connecting to the Internet.

    What's very interesting is many of these companies own the means to connect to the Internet (DSL/cable connections) or own the backbone of communications lines used for Internet traffic.

    1. Re:I think they forgot about the industry shakeout by scoove · · Score: 4, Troll

      What's very interesting is many of these companies own the means to connect to the Internet

      and obtained that exclusive ownership through rather nefarious means. A former Southworstern Bell friend used to brag about how the entire provisioning platform for CLEC/DSL providers to issue orders thru SWBell was a single fax machine (set on the slowest receive speed, and frequently out of paper for days).

      No phone orders. No electronic order system. No email requests. One crummy fax machine that was usually down. "Golly Mrs. Jones, I can't understand why your CLEC DSL provider can't get you service. Southworstern Bell would gladly get it for you in a few days if you'd switch your order!"

      On my home turf, USWorst beat the colocation orders by stuffing hundreds of desk job folks into recently relocated quarters inside the central office. Imagine freezing your butt off next to a 5ESS switch just so some higher up exec can keep the CLECs out of town. "Sorry, no space left in the central office... wish we could help ya!"

      Top that off with their hit squad that serviced cities like Minneapolis, Des Moines, Omaha, etc. that "oopsed" on ISP dedicated lines. "Gosh, did you say that T1 you've been runnin was supposed to be ESF/B8ZS? Golly... looks like it's AMI/D4 now. Guess you'll have to reorder your uplink connection... should be about 35 days by the time we get to fixin it. I could flip the little switch on the CSU/DSU, but hey, I'd be breakin the rules!" (Apparently payola is expected or else it's 'company policy' for you)

      I had everything from lost orders (more than 50%), competitive poaching (request a quote to a customer location and discover USWorst sales people getting the lead passed on), intentional interference with hunt groups (killing hunt #2 out of 200+ lines), fraudulant billing putting companies from other states onto my bill (and being told if I didn't pay it by 5 PM, I'd be shut down), etc.

      Only the city's top law firm, vicious attorneys and nonstop publicity about their illegal aggression kept us above water. Our competitors who couldn't afford $50K/month for legal fees to combat the LEC? They didn't last long at all.

      Combine that with oversight from our elected officials like Louisiana's Tauzin (an EFF watchlist critter and highly effective open Internet killer), and there should be no surprise. We've demanded a spam-favoring Baby Bell monopoly Internet through our votes.

      Don't like it? Don't elect this funny speakin' Bell lacky crap.

      *scoove*

    2. Re:I think they forgot about the industry shakeout by scoove · · Score: 4, Informative

      SacredNaCl writes: I then spent the next 4 months waiting for SWB to throw a switch

      Yup... sad that paying off congress critters is better business than hustling to make your customer happy.

      Living in Missouri, you've got another problem with some paid flake state representative that wants to ban towers (Missouri HR 999) used to deliver wireless service because "they threaten children." (Tell me, are you Missourians putting playgrounds under the broadcast towers or what?)

      Seriously, this critter must have been seeking the junk science award of the year - no explanation how these "evil radio rays" harm the kiddies or anything. Since the bill got tabled due to the junk science approach, Merideth said he'll reintroduce it next year without the "evil kiddie rays" stuff so his opposition doesn't have any substance to argue against.

      Oh, and guess who got campaign contributions from the local phone/wireline incumbants who have an interest in making sure there's no rural wireless phone service, wireless broadband, etc?

      *scoove*
      Remember this holiday season: Friends don't let JonKatz post.

    3. Re:I think they forgot about the industry shakeout by jafac · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ironically, I got a letter yesterday from PacBell thanking me for being such a wonderful DSL customer for the past year, and that my bill is being raised by $10 a month so that they could provide "exiting new services" which seems to consist only of a redesigned home-page.

      I also received, last week, an email from Earthlink, thanking me for signing up for their DSL service, but they regret to inform me that DSL is not available in my area. This is the same automated email I've been getting every 3 months for the past year and a half (since I first asked them if they could provide DSL for me) - despite my asking to be removed from their mailing list, despite telling their product manager that their information was wrong, that I was happily getting PacBell DSL service, etc. etc.

      Whatever.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  3. 14 of 110? by joshamania · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's because the other 96 went out of business...

  4. Before the web there was.... by 3seas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Should such an overtaking of the internet happen, there is always the going back to building our own. And come to think of it, it'd probably cause some innovation to happen. You know making things streamline and faster, no ads... etc..

    So how would we replace the university backbones that began the internet?

    Hasn't there already been some efforts in this direction?

    Do we have to be concerned about anti-ad-free networks or laws banning such?

    GNU/Linux/GPL began a direction of user/consumer options. How might this play out with
    commercial free internet?

    Should we begin now or push more for commercial free networks, or wait?

    1. Re:Before the web there was.... by mshiltonj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So how would we replace the university backbones that began the internet?

      Communicate the old-fashioned way: FidoNet

      Seriously, the only way break the megacorp's choke-hold on the net is to go totally wireless, and completely circumvent the need for the existing millions of miles of strung wire. There needs to be a communcation method that can go end-to-end without *depending* on all that wire.

      Right now, he who owns the pipe controls the communication.

      No start-up or co-op or RMSophile (of which I am one) is going to gather enough resources to lay down an equal amount of wire to compete.

      It's gonna be AT&T or TimeWarner. Coax or twisted pair. Cable or DSL. There is no other option, and all the wire is owned.

      There will have to be an all-wireless solution. Until then, grab your ankles -- but don't hold your breath.

  5. If commercialisation is running so rampant.... by Flarners · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...then why are we seeing an explosion of decidely non-corporate, distributed technologies like P2P networks and online gaming? The Web has become little more than interactive television, that's for sure, but there is so much more to the Internet than HTTP and Flash ads. P2P services are the driving force behind the adoption of DSL, Cable and other Broadband. Online gaming with Quake et al. is only "corporate-controlled" in the sense that the games are made with corporate backing; the major fun of these online games comes from the people who participate in them.

    People need to see beyond the Web; it may be the primary medium you look through when you open up Internet Explorer, but it's primacy is being quickly supplanted by new distributed technologies. Articles such as this are terribly short-sighted.

    --
    "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for 'entrepeneur'." -George W. Bush
    1. Re:If commercialisation is running so rampant.... by reaper20 · · Score: 3

      Online gaming with Quake et al. is only "corporate-controlled" in the sense that the games are made with corporate backing; the major fun of these online games comes from the people who participate in them.

      Ah yes, but notice now how multiplayer games come 'locked in' to certain service right out of the box. The Quake1 days were a boon for independent servers and user contributed mods. Since they all started becoming 'Foxed', and more and more games tie you into a service (ala battle.net), it starts to get locked in.

      Now, in the name of 'preventing cheating' and tying in a gamer for a monthly service fee, I can see alot of the games becoming more "corporate-controlled".

    2. Re:If commercialisation is running so rampant.... by ShaunC · · Score: 3

      >...then why are we seeing an explosion of decidely non-corporate,
      >distributed technologies like P2P networks and online gaming?

      That's like saying that the interstate system isn't federalized because the government doesn't make the cars we drive. How do you run the technologies you mention? Over the cable owned by your local cable monopoly, or maybe over the copper owned by the telco. Big companies, getting bigger, and gaining more control. What happens when they decide to start fighting these new technologies? You may have bought your car from Ford, but the state troopers will still pull you over for speeding.

      What do you do if your cable company blocks all inbound traffic, and only allows you to use 80, 25, and 110 out? (Keep in mind that tunneling is not an option for the average user.) Do you go to the "competition?" And what do you do if the phone company puts the same filters in place? Good luck running P2P over dialup.

      As big ISPs keep swallowing up the smaller ones, we're getting closer and closer to having as much of a "choice" of internet providers as we have a "choice" of utility providers. If nothing changes, I imagine that 10 years from now, you'll be able to choose between using one "local" (subsidiary of a nationally owned) internet service, or using nothing.

      Shaun

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  6. Issue I faced by MathJMendl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I manage a non-profit site geared toward people interested in the TI-89, a Texas Instruments graphing calculator, at www.ti-89.org. I do not have any illegal material there, and I clearly state that I am not in any way related to TI in my disclaimer. My website is simply a fansite that promotes interest in the TI-89, and in the message boards I've noticed that it has influenced several people into buying TI-89s.

    This did not prevent them from sending me a letter threatening lawsuit if I did not sign an trademark "license" with them for the use of the letters T and I, placed consecutively. The letter stated that it was their trademark and that I would have to remove it or face lawsuit. They also wanted me to turn over the domain name as well, and the license they sent me was extremely restrictive.

    I refused to agree with this agreement because it said that I couldn't say any negative things about TI or any of their products and had several other clauses restricting what I could say. I felt that this was censorship, and even though I haven't put anything negative about TI on my site, I didn't want my opinion to be biased toward them.

    Anyway, that was the last I've heard from them (for now, at least). My site remains, and with over 100,000 visits it surely generates interest in TI's products, generating revenue for them. Luckily, they probably came to the conclusion that such a fansite was probably more beneficial to them than detrimental, and that sending threating letters wouldn't accomplish anything. If they decide to threaten me again about this, though, I might choose to simply remove my site, and thus the interest it generates for them, from the Internet. I simply do not have as deep pockets as they do and could not afford a lawsuit.

    Then again, perhaps they were just sending me a form letter. I once received a letter from someone asking for advice about what to do, since Dell threatened him about his domain name, which had the word Dell in it. Consequently, Dell was his last name, and he had just as legitimate a right to the domain name as they did (even more legitimate, in fact, since he registered it first); they probably just chose to send out a form letter to all domain names with the word Dell in it.

    --


    "I have not failed. I've simply found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Edison
    1. Re:Issue I faced by ColaMan · · Score: 4, Funny
      I once received a letter from someone asking for advice about what to do,

      I get these all the time :-)


      HI!

      I send you this file in order to have your advice.

      See you later, bye!

      Attached File: "Threatening Domain Name Letter.doc"

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    2. Re:Issue I faced by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's very easy for a company to send a "cease and desist" letter to someone like you, that neither means they have the legal wherewithall to prosecute you nor the time/money to do so. They hope you will be intimidated by the letter and comply. Sounds like borg to me.

      What this is rooted in is not necessarily some greedy corporate culture drones out there (although they do exist) but more in patent and trademark law. Both, unfortunately, are horrifically broken in this modern era. What you are probably getting needled for is so that TI can defend it's trademark. Here's why:

      Trademark law (in the U.S.) put simply states that if you do not vigorously defend your trademark, you lose it. "Vigorous" to lawyers means you sue anyone, anywhere, anytime they might appear to be infringing. Thus, the letter to you. TI could care less what you're doing, but the damn legal system wants its pound of flesh, and the corporate lawyers on retainer know that.

      I'm willing to bet that outside the legal department nobody at TI has one inkling of an idea that you were "threatened". Further, and this has worked for me in the past, if you contact someone higher up in the company (and it is damnably difficult -- use the "investor relations" links to get their contact info) you'll usually find them sympathetic to your cause if you're not slandering them left and right. Nobody wants a PR black eye, and it's very easy to distribute negative info on a company to the entire world overnight via the Internet.

      So, to sum it up, if you're being threatened, stand your ground. If things look to get nasty, contact the EFF for legal assistance. As a last resort, the ACLU might be of help sometimes as well (for Americans only, though). Sooner or later the legal system will change to catch up with technology.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
  7. "The Tech Atlas Shrugged" by sabinm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Meanwhile, the busiest sites are increasingly run by a handful of companies, giving them greater ability to control what users read, view and say. By running the message boards and chat rooms, such sites can delete unpopular viewpoints or reveal identities of anonymous critics

    Now would be a great time to just shrug your shoulders and refuse to contribute to a world where you have no place.

    The only freedom we have left is the freedom not to condone, encourage, or participate.

    Until there is freedom, let there be silence

    --
    http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
  8. Let them commercialize. by reaper20 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I agree that commercialization of the net can generally be bad. (More spam for everybody).

    But at the same time, it's good to know that there are alternatives to all the commercialism on the web. What we need to be fighting for is to ensure that the open protocols of the net remain open, and that I don't have to have a Passport/Sun doohicky to buy a book if I don't need it.

    Come to think of it, I rarely browse commercial sites unless I am looking for something. Commercialism tends to be counter to what the internet was ideally supposed to be, a repository for information.

    Ever notice how stories on Yahoo, ZDNet, MSNBC and others mention things, but really never provide links to anything that they are talking about? That's because some marketing moron decided that it's best to 'lock in' a surfer to their specific 'content channel'. I say screw that. Link the hell out of everything and let the content stand on its own.

  9. Move along, no surprises here. by pongo000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We have the National Science Foundation to thank for allowing commercial traffic across what was then known as NSFNET in 1991. Does it really come as a surprise to anyone (especially the ACM) what has come to pass? There will be no undoing the deed that's been done.

    Not even Internet2 is safe from rampant commercialism, as is evidenced here.

  10. Small people by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Interesting
    'This is the last remaining communications medium that allows the small person to participate,'

    But isn't this also the first communications medium that allows the small person to participate? (Other than largely ineffective channels such as pamphlets and megaphones.) Maybe things are just returning to the way they were prior to 1994.

  11. The real problem will come... by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful
    when corporations use their business leverage to get ISP's to cut the connection of websites which they find objectionable. The Internet as an open forum for free speech is not protected by law; currently, an ISP can pull your service for any reason whatsoever. Thus, if you post any content (say, a Christian website, for example) that someone finds objectionable, you could lose your right to free speech without so much as a court battle.

    Access to the Internet should be federalized and regulated like the utilities - freely available to anyone who has the equipment to connect. Yes, our tax dollars should fund it - then free speech would be safe from the corporate interests.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:The real problem will come... by Detritus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is what regulated common carriers, such as your local telephone company, are for. It doesn't have to be federalized, just regulated. This is usually done at the state level. The telephone company can't disconnect me for having views that people find offensive. On the other hand, my ISP can cancel my account for any or no reason. This isn't a big problem with dial-up ISPs, where there are plenty of competing ISPs. It's in the broadband arena that the problems are more serious. There are likely to be few alternatives for the broadband customer. Cable companies tend to have the attitude that their customers are mindless proles, who should be happy that they are allowed to surf the web in the company's "walled garden". They dream of partners, synergy and pay-per-view.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:The real problem will come... by statusbar · · Score: 3, Insightful
      • currently, an ISP can pull your service for any reason whatsoever

        And you can change ISP's for any reason whatsoever. There's plenty to choose from, thanks to capitalism.

      But here is the point! 110 to 14. What if in 5 years the trend follows and there is really only 1? Then you have no choice.

      --jeff

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
  12. The Internet must be commercialized. by FFFish · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's no two ways about it: the Internet must become commercialized.

    Not because we, the joe-blow users of the Internet want it commercialized. Rather, because it is the biggest threat to the mediacracy since the invention of the printing press.

    And what makes the Internet even more threatening than the press is that the actual publishing is as good as cost-free. At least with paper, you have the overhead of layout, paper, and shipping. With the net, you have the overhead of... nothing.

    The media conglomerates simply aren't going to allow that. They can't afford to.

    And I believe the government isn't particularly happy about it, either. If you care to dig, you can get all sorts of truthful information about the bad-ass things our governments and corporations are doing.

    An information-empowered people are a dangerous people: they know things they shouldn't, they can coordinate too easily, and they get smarter.

    Between the media conglomerates and the government, you damn well bet that the glory days are over!

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    1. Re:The Internet must be commercialized. by alen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess web designers, bandwith, and network admins come free.

    2. Re:The Internet must be commercialized. by FFFish · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Kee-rist. You hang out exclusively at the commercial sites, don't you? That's the only way you could be so ignorant of the wealth of small sites that publish information that you simply couldn't have access to in any other format.

      Slashdot is a commercial site. Commander Taco isn't footing the bill. Slashdot lives and dies by its corporate backers. It's a prime example of the concentration of power.

      Go take a look at http://www.vacman.com/. There's no way you'd have that as a resource if it weren't for the very low cost of Internet publication. Yes, I realize the guy may be a bit loony: that's not the point.

      Is this site costing the fellow a shit-load of money? No (not until I got him slashdotted!) Could he ever have been effectively published on paper? No. Is it a site that corporate interests wouldn't mind seeing disappear? Yes.

      The mediacracy would like to see free, informative little sites like that disappear. Vacman is costing the media companies money. The free dispersal of information is the antithesis to their making of money.

      Hell's bells, man, the big publishing houses are currently making noises about having libraries pay them licensing fees on the books they stock!

      Free/cheap information has to be eliminated if the media wish to continue to make a buck!

      --

      --
      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Re:And... by ShaunC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >If every Joe-Schmoe or Maw-and-Paw-start-upcompany was as
    >good as the larger companies than 60 percent of the net wouldn't
    >be controlled by said companies.

    With all due respect, that's bullshit. The mom-and-pop ISPs often provide far better service than the big companies. Smaller subscriber bases typically mean better customer support. Try getting support out of AOL, MSN, etc. and then try getting support from your hometown ISP. The local guys are going to provide better service every time, because they don't have to support millions of customers.

    But the mom-and-pop ISPs don't happen to own a massive cable television network on which they can run an incessant stream of commercials for their online service, free of charge. Anyone else who subscribes to Time Warner Cable knows what I'm talking about. AOL and RoadRunner commercials on every channel, every 15 minutes. It's impossible for momandpop.net to compete with that.

    The mom-and-pop ISPs don't have millions of telephone subscribers whose bills they can stuff their advertisements into each month. I can't remember the last time my BellSouth bill didn't include a 5-page pamphlet explaining the wonders of DSL.

    The mom-and-pop ISPs aren't going under because they suck. They're going under because they can't compete in a market dominated by bloated companies with billions of dollars to spend on advertising.

    Shaun

    --
    Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  15. Increased passivity of the Net's population by cthugha · · Score: 5, Interesting
    the early days when [the Internet] was a place for researchers at universities and governments to talk about their professions, hobbies and other interests with little interference from lawyers or corporate executives...disputes are often over gray areas...that courts rarely get to resolve because fans back down first.

    You have to wonder how much of the problem revolves around the migration of a large group of people onto the Net who don't appreciate the free, communitarian culture they were entering.

    While reading the article, I was reminded of the big bust-up that occured when Paramount went after all the unofficial Star Trek fansites prior to establishing its own official site. The community of Trek fansites had a lot in common with the early community of the Net as a whole (probably because a lot of our founding non-gender-biased parental figures were Trekkies themselves), it was cohesive, well-connected and had a sense of the common ideal of the free flow of information. These qualities allowed it to collectively "take offense" at what Paramount was doing, with the result that Paramount did permanent damage to the Star Trek franchise.

    These days, it seems that the various communities online are a lot more internally isolated and aren't aware of the proud heritage they inherit, with the effect that whenever there's a corporate crackdown on a single fansite, there's no way for the community to which that site belongs to find out and react as a whole.

    Perhaps we should start establishing community ISPs that provide cheap, high-quality access (on the back of inexpensive or volunteer labour) to the masses and distribute with each new account some material about the early history and ideals of the Internet, a sort of "online civics" course to indoctrinate the masses. I'd work for one.

  16. Re:And... by alen · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well why don't the mom and pops start letting advertisers onto their networks and start stuffing their customer's mailboxes with spam? It'll bring more revenue in and make them more competative.

  17. Re:Hmmm. Let's think about it 10 seconds. by alcmena · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Such a plan is sure to backfire. There would be a similiar clause that would state the individual must pay a certain amount to the corp for losing as well. It would then make it impossible for the individual to fight back for their rights as the loss would ruin them and their family for decades.

    Personally, I would like to see corps be treated as "full" individuals. By that, I mean that I would not mind seeing officers of a company rot in jail when they break laws. If I, as a person, murder someone, I go to jail for the rest of my life. If I, as say... Ford, murder people by refusing to recall and redesign my products, I pay only a fine and it's back to business as usual.

  18. A simple explanation by pen · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The reason the 14 big sites have captured such a big percentage of an audience is that the audience has grown much larger. There is also a much larger percentage of Joe Schmoes. In 1994, most of the Internet's users were nerds of some sort (whether computer geeks or university staff/students) who would not care for AOL.com anyway.

    Even though MSYAHOL has captured 60% of the Web's audience, this doesn't mean that the audience of the "weird" sites has grown smaller. I'm quite sure that while their "market share" has decreased, the actual numbers have increased.

  19. Excellent point! by nbvb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's exactly how I still code HTML to this day.

    {ShamelessPlug}
    Check out www.osxadm.com. I haven't put any real content up yet, but the HTML forms are done.

    The only difference between my pages in 1997 and today is that I use a BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" tag now. :-)

  20. Isn't The Rest Of The Web Still There? by istartedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't The Rest Of The Web Still There?

    There are still .EDUs. Most ISPs give out 10 free megs or more. If you have broadband and you don't upstream too much, you can run a server. If your project is software, you can host it on places like SourceForge. If your project is the least bit interesting, you can probably find someone who will host it for nothing.

    There is still plenty of room for the Internet as it used to be: Obscure, intellectual and hostile.

    Just because there is a WalMart in the suburbs doesn't mean there isn't a coffeehouse in the city. Just because everybody else drinks Starbucks mocha, doesn't mean you can't drink home-brewed kombucha from a thermos.

    The old culture is still there. Those who want it will always seek it out. Yes, it is no longer the brightest star in the sky. Maybe the other stars are as bright as the Sun, drowning things out; but there will always be people who surf above the atmosphere, in the blackness of space.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  21. Re:Why is commercialisation automatically bad? by DarkZero · · Score: 3, Informative

    Dude, we're not angry about AOL, Hotmail, or online stores. These are all good things. The problem, in the eyes of hackers and general Slashdot visitors, is what has been brought with it. The commercialization of the internet has given rise to free web page services that only give you 2MB of space and 300MB of bandwidth per month, cable modem services that will disconnect you if you run anything even remotely resembling a server, and a greater feeling among non-tech-heads that any site that isn't run by a multinational corporation that already owns fourteen newspapers and three TV stations "isn't trustworthy".

    Free e-mail is a good thing. Reasonably priced and user friendly internet access is a good thing. Online stores are a good thing. The silencing of the average person for the sake of keeping internet speech under the control of multinational corporations because it is more profitable, however, is a bad thing.

  22. What about OSDN? by John_McKee · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Isn't it a tad bit hypocritical to criticize companys like AOL for owning so much of the traffic when this is what VA has done with your site? The way I see it is that the consolidation has kept many organizations alive that wouldn't be otherwise. And just because they are owned by the a larger company mean that they lack journalistic integrity? Freshmeat, News Forge, Slashdot, Source Forge and Themes.org used to be independent before being bought by VA. Would they still be around now without being bought? Maybe, but I doubt it considering the advertising shake up. The control has not be gained from nefarious means, just out of survival.

  23. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  24. Blowing my nose with paper towels by Graymalkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Statistically all statistics lie in some form. Journalists statistically don't have any degrees besides journalism. Few journalists statistically know more about statistics than statisticians.

    My point? You can infer anything from statistics, thats like the first chapter of a statistics textbook. So web eyeballs have narrowed their focus to a smaller number of websites in a given amount of time, big deal. If you go a little farther back in time you'll see the exact same thing as today, a majority of web users visited a handful of websites. Why? Lots of reasons. The biggest is only a smaller number of websites offered content the majority of web users even wanted to look at. Then there was a boom of websites that all offered the same thing packaged a little differently, some put blue bows on their piles of shit whilst others wrapped their shit in red bows. People liked the red bows more and thus now most of the blue bow sites are gone. Before the boom there were a handful of sites because no one thought much of the internet, now there are a handful of sites because people overvalued the internet.

    Some people think this is a new concept and rant and rave and some who read slashdot whine and moan about it. Somehow the government and corporations are controlling people's minds. Read into your history a little bit. Around the turn of the last century there were dozens of newspapers in San Fransisco. It had grown so fast and was inhabited by so many different sorts of people that for a while it supported these several dozen newspapers. Then people began to homogenize and so did the different newspapers and publishing groups. Now you've got a handful of local newspapers in San Fransisco some with much larger circulations than others. See the correlation here? The web is going to be varied but there is also always going to be points where alot of people go to. Just because you've got a phone book with a million listings doesn't mean you're going to call them all, unless you're war dialing. Same goes for websites in directories.

    Besides basic economics and social structures pervading the web researchers are often times not very well versed in the regions of the internet. Most research completely ignores IRC networks and message boards some of which are like slashdot and have nearly a bajillion people reading them per day. As well as IRC networks (which I know have declined a little bit in popularity) researchers seem to ignore instant messaging systems and their effect on the web. Alot of web users have abandoned e-mail lists, IRC networks, and message boards in lieu of instant messaging systems. I bet alot of people on analog modems probably IM more than they surf the web anymore. It doesn't require a whole lot of bandwidth and can be done on even old slow computers.

    --
    I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
  25. Re:Poor journalism. Again. And again. And again. by Bowie+J.+Poag · · Score: 3, Interesting



    In the UC case, shoddy plant maintenance and a shocking reduction in staff training -- a cut from six months of training, to a quick two weeks! -- led to a tragic chemical leak that resulted in 20000 deaths, another 120000 people requiring medical treatment, and a generation of grossly deformed children.

    Sounds trite, but accidents like these are inevitable consequences of our civilization. Its our nature as human beings to maximize our effectiveness while minimizing our use of resources. Sure, its sad and terrible what happened. So was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 250,000 people died there--A quarter of a million people burst into flames, got buried by rubble, got impaled on things, or just plain disintegrated--But most historians agree that it had to be done. Japan wouldn't have given up, and a ground invasion would have cost at least 500,000 lives, some estimates as high as 750,000. See what I mean about "inevitable consequences" ?

    The example of Ford and the Pinto you pointed out isn't that unusual. All companies make decisions regarding cost-effectiveness. If you dont like the decisions they make, you can buy from another car manufacturer. Its your responsibility as a buyer to thuroughly research your choices before putting your name on the dotted line and putting your money on the table. Of course, thats not to say that the people who died in Pintos deserved their fate -- It merely states that perhaps they would have been wise to question the motivations behind the design of Ford's products. Any mechanic will tell you that the engines Ford automobiles are generally difficult to repair. That translates into added cost to you, because in the long run, you'll be paying disproportionately more for labor. This doesn't mean that Ford is evil and makes their engines difficult to maintain because they take delight in seeing you shell out more money than others. Its your choice, ultimately. You didnt have to buy the car. You didnt' even have to buy American.

    I'm tempted to not even bother with your third example, Kerr-McGee and Karen Silkwood, as its pure speculation, conjecture and Hollywood bullshit. Stranger things have happened out of pure coincedence, a woman driving home drowsy after a long day at work not withstanding.

    Cheers,

    --
    Bowie J. Poag

  26. Big Business abusing Trademarks to bully by Garry+Anderson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have been warning about this problem on WIPO.org.uk for some time now.

    Virtually every word is trademarked, even the common words you learnt with your A B C's - apple, ball and cat. MOST share the same words or initials with MANY others in a different business and/or country. For example, the World Trade Organization (WTO) shares its initials with six trademarks - in the U.S. alone (please check). Caterpillar tractors claimed 'cat' is 'their' trademark on the Internet - even though hundreds of trademarks use the word 'cat' - again in U.S. alone (see for yourself).

    Conflict with trademark and domain name is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid. Yet, the United Nations World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO.org) and the United States Department of Commerce are hiding the simple solution. It was ratified by honest attorneys - including the honourable G. Gervaise Davis III, UN WIPO panellist judge.

    Please visit WIPO.org.uk to see.

  27. Re:The death of the WWW by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Define 'death'? I pay for a web hosting service off my ISP- rotten disk space allowance, but no cap on bandwidth and good reliability. Are we talking about an assumption that one must produce REVENUE from web 'properties'? That seems deeply questionable to me- it's like saying the purpose of advertising is to charge people to watch them. What?

    Your point about content dying as it gains popularity is a good one- the cost of providing huge bandwidth can price a site out of people's range. This doesn't consider options like permitting mirroring, or simply acknowledging that some people won't be able to get access to the content. You'll note that usenet, which you mentioned, is all mirroring and propagating. So is P2P.

    The reason the Web has a particular value is because it's a 'property', a fixed location with lots of software that's been out there for years that knows how to go look up 'www.foobaz.com' if you ask. The fact that this is usually (not invariably!) the same server in the same physical location, is not an advantage, it's just the LABEL that is the advantage, hence all the battling over trademarks etc.

    If commercial interests manage to genuinely stomp out all personal interests on the WWW, then maybe you can call that death. I have a bit of a hard time seeing fan Trek sites and the like as genuinely personal interests... a lot of the stuff that's being stepped on is, to some ways of thinking, genuinely the property of somebody else. Yes, 1000 trek fan sites is an amazing thing, yes having Paramount step on them is a shame, but if I am a science fiction writer who is NOT Star Trek, maybe I am not as full of sympathy. I might see people thronging to pay attention to the usual corporate malarkey and putting up lots of sites at their own expense and writing fanfic based on that stuff- supposing it's good- is it really such a great thing that people waste their energies getting all excited over corporate rubbish rather than creating their own artworks based on their own ideas? I guess that's debatable.

    There are some possible benefits to having the corporations really tighten the screws on powerless individuals. In some of those cases, the powerless individuals happen to be expending energy in celebrating the productions of the corporation. Trek, Harry Potter, etc. Is it so wrong if the corporations' true colors show, and they undercut their own cultural proliferation?

    For everybody else- well, hopefully you will always be able to buy _some_ space on the Web and _some_ kind of label/domain-name to direct people to. Hopefully it won't descend to where you can't even put two English words together in a new way without it being judged too similar to some company's words. All this is not new- it's just being fought over again on the new turf.

  28. Re:"We"? Who appointed you spokesperson? by richieb · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Anyway, did you stop to think that the people who pay for these cable modem services don't want an idiot on the same network as them creating a virtual traffic jam with his server? This is the exact online analogue to real estate zoning laws [lp.org]. People deserve to be protected from their neighbor setting up a big retail business right next to them, attracting tons of traffic and general degradation of life for the people who live there.

    Not exactly. You can hog more bandwith just downloading MP3s and MPG files, than I ever could by running a web server.

    The TOS agreements given by the cable companies are discriminatory towards people who want to provide "content". I don't want to download Brittney Spears MP3s, I want to distribute my own recordings for free via my own servers.

    The ISPs should be charging for bandwith - as this is the thing that's limited - and not worry about what runs of my own servers.

    --
    ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  29. Re:Why BGCOLOR? by KjetilK · · Score: 3, Insightful
    OK, I'll give up on the first point, but not the second.

    Flash is a proprietary standard, and having been on Tru64 most of the time, I can tell you Flash is among the most awful things you can encounter.

    But indeed, it has more to do with its propretary status than technical abilities. But, SVG+DOM+SMIL should do most of the things Flash does (though I haven't seen a good comparison yet), and if people would use that instead, I would have no objections, as all technologies can be used intelligently.

    --
    Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid