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Beijing Snubs Microsoft For Municipal PCs' Software
jsse points to this Gartner article which says "that on 28 December 2001, the Beijing municipal government selected among seven vendors to provide operating system (OS), office automation (OA) and antivirus software for government PCs. Beijing selected six bidders, including Red Flag, but rejected the seventh bidder, Microsoft -- the only one that was not selected. Gartner listed several reasons why Microsoft lost the bid, but missed out the famous rumor that Microsoft has built a bad relationship with China since the first Chinese Windows 95, which was written by Taiwan programmers, contains Easter eggs carrying anti-communist messages."
That's a pretty funny rumor, whether it be true or not is of course another story....
The article points out that China can greatly benefit by not having a powerhouse like Microsoft established in China. Chinese companies will have a much better opportunity to gain a foothold in China now.
Electron Pulse...indie rock/jazz/blues
It appears that the Chinese understand the importance of a domestic software industry in the 21st century and are taking steps to improve their own. Choosing Linux immediately gives them a worldwide devloper network that rivals any private corporation, including Microsoft. If we gaze into the crystal ball to 10-15 years from now, the sheer savings in licensing alone will catapult them into the world arena. They have a captive market of 1.2 billion users that rivals North America, Western Europe and the Pac-Rim. Granted, it may take 20-30 years for the network infrastructure and standard of living to rise to a 50% market penetration of PCs but I don't see this as a good thing for M$.
"All Your Base Belong To Us!" would probably be a really bad thing for trying to get on their good side...
We have seen several different governmental organizations move to Linux over the past year, if the trend continues, does this increase the chance of Linux becoming the major OS in schools? Apple made a strong push to introduce the Macintosh to the education market, and as a result, they are still the primary computers at many elementary, middle and highshools in America. This could be a great way to introduce Linux to the general population.
The Microsoft XBox, as popular as it may become, also will not be sold in China. As you may know, Microsoft looses money on each XBox they sell. With the realization that piracy is highly rampant in China and they will not sell much software, the console will not be sold there.
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Go here if you want to read up a little more on it... http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/news.php?artc=238
First, let me state that I am a capitalist and firmly believe in the rights of companies and organizations to develop closed-source software and charge money for it. Many of my most frequently used programs (all for Linux) are closed-source and cost me a pretty penny to acquire. I believe in paying for software when I provides me with the services I need.
However, I also use open source software from time to time. Although many teenage Slashdotters seem to think that open source is necessarily good and commericial software is automatically evil, I believe the two paradigms can continue to exist side by side ad infinitum.
My contributing code for free to an open source project does not diminish my standing as a capitalist. Open source software is great. However, just because software is available for free (as in beer) does not make it a communist product.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
First there was a story about the NSA key in the registry. Then the source code supposedly was stolen by hackers last year. And the law is that before you sell any crypto software overseas it has to get a license from the NSA.
Why would the Chineese want to open their systems to the US Government?
do a find on that page for 'easter' and you will get this relevant part:
There are also persistent rumors that the official Chinese version of Windows 95, which was written in Taiwan, not Beijing, contained hidden text (easter eggs) such as "Communist Bandits," and "take back the mainland."
is that a little easier for you?
Careful reading will reveal that these contracts essentially effect only Beijing, not the rest of China. Shanghai, for instance, recently negotiated a contract with Microsoft for Win2000. What remains to be seen, however, is how the seriously the Chinese government will crack down on pirating (the major reason for Windows' prevelence in China, as is the case for much of the world outside of the USA and Western Europe) and whether this will prompt a widespread movement toward Free Software. Sure, China is oggling free trade, but will it (or can it?) curb pirating?
:Peter
I aplaud the Chinesse on this. They told a corporation that was bad mouthing them to go fly a kite. The whole reason that China is known as a haven of piracy is work done by Microsoft and it's goons at the BSA. The fact that China had some piracy, mainly due to the fact that it could not legally import much of the software, was touted several years ago as a reason that they should not be allowed into the world market. The company leading this charge? Microsoft.
Microsoft figured they would leverage their way in by calling them pirates and then simply saying you can become legal by pay as a large license fee for all of the stuff you are using. The Chinesse understood what this was. Microsoft wanted a bribe to allow China into the world markets. China told them to go f**k themselves, and rightly so.
Hopefully this will make Microsoft look twice now at how their fanning the flames of piracy histeria hurts them more than it helps them. Missing out on a multi-billion dollar market tends to do that to a company.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
See this article which was one of the best I found in my Google search.
The second-to-last sentence in the ChipCenter article explains a lot:
One of the many things that distinguish Americans from the rest of the world--and particularly from Asians--is the American social construct of "just business." I hope you understand, the tycoon says to his beloved, I had to destroy your father's empire and bankrupt all your siblings--but it was 'just business.' This is central to the Tom Hanks-Meg Ryan movie, "You've Got Mail"--Hanks's character is a big-block bookstore tycoon who wipes the small businesswoman (Ryan) off the map--but she falls in love with him anyway. It is practically impossible to explain to most Americans how oddly this strikes practically anybody in the rest of the world. Particularly in Asia.
Nothing, in China, is "just business." You cannot trash-talk a country for their laxity in intellectual property rights and then expect to sell them software licenses. But you also cannot even begin to think that the son of the Chinese President is to be treated as just another vendor. The presence of Red Flag in the bidding guaranteed that Red Flag would win the bidding. That's how business is done in China.
What's instructive in this, however, is that six other vendors also "won" in the bidding--it might be very interesting to see what they offered (such as what OS and what word processors). It might not be particularly surprising to discover that one or more is a Microsoft reseller. One can spank a disrespectful suitor (Microsoft) by pointedly excluding them from the vendor list--but offer Microsoft an opportunity to regain favor by including a reseller (or perhaps more than one) on the list.
Microsoft got stiffed; the president's son won the biggest chunk of the business. Anybody in China could have told you that would happen. The real story is whether there are any Microsoft-OS suppliers on this vendor list, or if the Beijing government has embraced Linux exclusively.
First, remember that RMS was able to wreak havoc on the computing world only because he is in league with the aliens who abducted Elvis and assassinated JFK.
He is also a known cattle mutilator and evil character.
Do us all a favor. If you're gonna troll, at least do it with some taste. Spell names correctly. Try to make the troll have at least some sort of acquaintance with actual history. And for the love of God, don't quote Metallica in a discussion about technology.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Four dead in Ohio, killed by a few trigger happy National Guardsmen does not compare to the government of a nation crushing a revolt and killing between 200 and 4000 people, and throwing thousands more in prison. There are estimates that more than 240 people are still in Chinese prisons because of thier actions at Tiananmen Square.
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You can not compare the organized slaughter at Tiananmen Square to the actions of a few frightened National Guardsmen at Kent State.
1. The Federal Government didn't order the attack at Kent State. The Chinese Government ordered the attacks.
2. Students at Kent State were not put in prison for thier actions, while protesters at Tiananmen Square were thrown in prison.
3. The National Guard at Kent State didn't send in Armored units to put down the protests, like the Chinese did at Tiananmen Square. Read the text of Deng Xiaoping's speech to the Martial Law Units from June 9th, 1989.
http://tsquare.tv/chronology/Deng.html
Those things, coupled with the Chinese oppression of the Fal Lun Gong, Chirstians, Tibet and the 20-40 million that died because of the Great Leap Foreward, give the rest of the world the right to shake our fingers at the Chinese.
http://www.intangible.org/Features/t_square/sit
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/tiananmen.h
http://library.thinkquest.org/C002291/high/past
http://tsquare.tv/chronology/Deng.html
So is this about a legitimate choice in operating software, or is it about nepotism?
I think, before we look to any altruistic reasoning on the part of Beijing on choosing "Linux" over "Microsoft" we need to look closer to home ... to their homes.
I've got moderator access right now, and I wish I could moderate this up to +6, because it appears to me that most people have missed what really happened. A lot of people are saying, "Serves Microsoft right," or that Microsoft got their just desserts or something. That's not what's going on.
This is not about Microsoft.
The PRC doesn't give a rat's ass about what Microsoft said about them.
What's going on here is exactly what the article has said. China is a shoddy business opportunity -- very much unlike the USA. Here, we have 300 million eager consumers, and the government is usually more than willing to let whoever wants to sell whatever they want to try to do so.
China's different. Corporations drool over the nearly 2 billion "consumers," but this is not (yet) a free market economy. And few companies that try to move into China to take advantage of the market ever make money, because the Chinese government is determined to make more money.
This is then made doubly difficult by the fact that in China, the state is religion, and the system is really an imperial system, just like the one Mao supposedly overthrew and every dynasty before it. And in systems like this, success is based solely on who you know. It's not like here in the United States where people value you on your ability to work hard and benefit the company.
People piss on "corporatists" on this board all the time. But that corporate system, with a few exceptions, is what allows immigrants to come to this country with nothing but what they could fit in a pair of suitcases and become the CEOs of their own corporations. It's what allows the children of blue-collar workers the ability to become wealthy and respected white-collar workers. I've met immigrants from China, Vietnam, Egypt, Iran, and all over the place, and they love the fact that in this country, if they work hard, they CAN make a good living.
In China, and most of the rest of the world, you are not valued for the quality of your product or for how hard you work. You're valued for "who you are" -- the son of a famous general, the brother of a diplomat, the cousin of the President.
This is not about Microsoft. This is about China. Only Western arrogance would assume otherwise.
Nope, I'm not a Christian.
As for finding the "christian" link, I hit Yahoo for stuff on China and that was one of the six links there.
I almost didn't post the http://www.christusrex.org link because I was afraid that I'd get crap about it because it is a Christian site. Then I thought, "It's Slashdot, they won't stereotype me for a URL."
I was wrong.
As for me bringing democracy and christanity to China, not my job. China would be better off with a Republic or Democratic government, and it will happen in the next 50 years, but I'm not doing anything about it. As for religion, I don't care what they worship or don't worship. It's a Christian link because it had the context I was looking for, photos of the assault on the demonstrators.
I will go further and say that I think every Communist government on Earth will not make it to 2050. Cuba, Vietnam, China or North Korea being the big 4.
there was a call to the Governor of Ohio by John Mitchell the night before the murders at Kent State. Some say this call was to urge the Gov to take whatever steps needed to stop the protests. Within days other students were killed in Agusta, but they were black and nobody cared.
There were no students within 90 yards of the Guardsmen. Seven of the Eleven were shot either in the back or the side. The leaders of the protest were singled out for liquidation.
JFK, ML King, Bobby Kennedy, George Wallace, all seen as threats by Nixon. All targetted by assassins who left a diary that implicated them in the murders. Wallace survived, but his chances of deciding the election that year were dashed. He would have siphoned off enough conservative votes to keep Nixon out of office for his second term.
The guardsmen were not out of control, they were acting under orders. If you look at the picture you can see the officers directing them, and in one shot you can see one with his sidearm taking aim.
photosMy Photostream
Criticism of the corporate system is usually based on the ethics of that system. Ethics based on the idea that almost any action is justifiable by its value to the bottom line. In short, "its just business."
Its true that the corporate business environment provides a lot of oportunity. But it also exacts an increasing cost as leaders within that system take less and less personal, and generally ethical, responsibility for their actions as part of that system.
The bennifits do not invalidate the criticisms.
...and of propagating Nimda, but let's not dwell on that, because they were actually (so we are told) serving stuff, and that in itself is amazing. (-:
Ooh, what a giveaway! Kernel-level as in acorns? Those things harvested and eaten (and lost) by squirrels?
VB is about as well suited to low-level work as thongs are for total building-site safety gear. (That's why Aussies call them JSB's, y'know, Japanese Safety Boots).
Other than the bogus gcc version: why bother? Mandrake ships with Pentium-optimised binaries, and you're not going to get noticeably better performance except for very CPU-intensive applications such as ray-tracing.
If I had boxes doing that, I'd replace the boxes.
Actually, given that this is Microsoft we're discussing, I think you mean ``full-fledged marketing team.''
I run many SMP Linux systems, and most of them use a stock-standard Linux distribution which ships with a choice of three (3) different journalling filesystems. Memory protection was there from Day One.
If by ``work'' you mean chewing up resources, yes. Otherwise it sounds like you have the system names the wrong way around. (-:
Droll troll, how abut writing some software instead of baiting people?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing