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XBox Defects Draw Ire
jeffy124 writes: "An article at CNN indicates that the XBox is having problems with defects. But the defects aren't the problem, the issue is lousy customer support from Microsoft's repair contractors, which is really what's more annoying to those who got defective units. Customer support has been giving out conflicting advice and some customers are having their support records lost."
I can't possibly understand why they would go through the trouble of calling customer support when they could go back to the store and get an exchange. Even software (which is notorious of being a 'No Refunds' purchase) can be exchanged for the same title if defective.
Even if I purchased online I'd call the people I bought it from; not MS customer support. Ugh, some people...
Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste.
James Brents
Well my initial response was yeah microsoft sucks, good for them for making crappy hardware. Then I actually read the article. And here's what I discovered.
"Analysts said the number of flawed consoles is probably too small to spell serious production troubles"
Well less then 1% of the 1.5 million systems failed. And out of those that did fail only 200 people received bad customer service.
My question is this, why didn't these people take there X-boxes back to the store immediately. There were plenty of X-boxes to go around, at least where I live. There was really no reason they couldn't have exchanged it.
If you look at the numbers Nintendo had a similar failure rate with the game cube. Was this news? No and neither is this story.
I hate microsoft as much or more then most people on slashdot, and I want to see them fail, but this is not failure. This is just the slashdot crowd chomping at the bit and jumping on any little thing.
I doubt MS has budgeted too much money to after sale support of XBox. Reasoning as follows:
XBox sells for $300.
Here's where it get's tricky...quoting consumer prices here, I'm sure MS buys this stuff by the truckload for a lot less...bear with me.
Processor inside cost $75-100.
Memory cost $50.
Hard drive cost $75.
Misc. hardware cost $50.
Worst case, that's $275. Add to that the BOX itself, packaging, controllers, docs, etc...we're talking an item with a VERY low profit margin. MS spent some quingillion dollars developing this thing, so obviously, some money will need to be directed to recouping development costs. When all is said and done, I don't think that MS is making a lot of money on each unit.
Is that an excuse for poor after market service? No, it's a lousy excuse! But, they had a price point they believed they had to hit, and something had to slide for them to hit it. As a tech geek, ask yourself, "Would I rather have a faster processor and more memory, or real good support that I'll probably never need?". Me, I'd pick the hardware and roll the dice on the support.
Now, I don't believe that MS has tried to make a faulty product...they dove into the console war headfirst, and HAVE to shine right out of the gate, if they don't, major egg on the face. So, it behooves them , as it does any manufacturer, to create a quality product. I'm just stating the facts as I see them, not defending or accusing.
Either you're being excessivly sarcastic, or you're living under a rock.
1. Grand Turismo 3
2. Metal Gear Solid 2
3. Final Fantasy X
4. Frequency (thanks to some mood enhancement)
5. Ico
You might argue that FFX and Ico don't count. You can get RPGs anywhere. Fine, whatever. You can't get those two anywhere else right now (and Sony would like you not to get FFX anywhere else ever). I don't know a single racing simulator as awesome as GT3. MGS2 is in a class of its own. In all honesty its GT3 and MGS2 that made me want a PS2.
Is there really anyplace the provides good customer service anymore?
Wait on the phone for 1 hour to be transfered and then disconnected. A myriad of reasons why they can't accept a return on a particular item.
Also, it seems as more and more things are basically computers with a different front end, problems are taking longer to creep up. By the time you may experience a problem, you are beyond the return date and you get to go through support hell.
I had an APEX DVD 600a for a month. At the end of the month, I got Stargate and got the infamous branching/looping problem. Up till that DVD it had been working fine. The there was basically something that the software couldn't handle properly. I was just able to return it, but if it had been a week later, I would have been screwed.
Oh well...that's my bitch...off to bed.
couple of things here...
I am not a pro-MS person by any means but some defective units and some whiners about poor customer service does not mean that their shit is really bad. Everyone in the world whines about CS. People sometimes need to understand that just b/c you paid $300 for something does not mean that it is going to work and it isn't going to get repaired that instant. Chill.
As far as Gamecube having games that people want. I just don't see it. I like sitting down in front of my PS2 (or I guess XBox from what I have seen) and firing up my copy of GT3 or Madden 2002 and looking at some sweet as stuff. The Gamecube reminds me of Barney. Purple and cartoonish.
Sorry but GT3 makes the PS2 a must buy. There is no car driving game out there that is anything like it. The graphics are amazing, the gameplay is great, and it never gets old (hell I have been playing GT1 for 3 straight years).
Playing XBox, PS2, and Gamecube in stores is what made me decide what I liked. The controllers for XBox and Gamecube are pretty poor. The PS2 is the only one that is actually comfortable and makes sense. Yeah, this is my opinion but honestly the others are just too bulky and overdone.
I enjoy my PS2. It has the time behind it and the games that are great. You just can't beat what it has.
"SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Hundreds of people who bought Microsoft's hot new Xbox game console over the holidays received defective systems, and some say they waited for weeks before the devices were fixed. "
I didn't get past that paragraph before I had to stop reading and go "what?" I think there is just a little melodrama here. At least on my Calendar the date is only January 5th. Which puts us almost at a mere two weeks after Christmas. Not even quite yet.
I know everyone is in a rush to get the holidays in and over, but I think this is seriously starting to stretch it. Pretty soon when there is an article double posted on slashdot, people will be saying "oh come on, I just read that story 10-15 days ago! Right after my cup of coffee!"
Consoles are sold at a loss, and the XBox is sold at more of a loss than any other console. Notice the business reviews of the XBox saying that Microsoft will lose several billion dollars and require over three years to turn a profit?
Console companies make their money on the software, and it will take quite a bit of software to make up the cost.
I'm sure that Microsoft knows what they are doing, though. They may not know how to design or impliment decent software. but nobody can argue that they know business.
The XBox, if you follow news on Microsoft, is to get their foot in the door of home electronics. The X-Box combined with Ultimate TV (Microsofts innovative clone of Tivo) can potentially allow Microsoft to eventually control advertising on your TV, track everything you watch, and conceivably eventually allow Microsoft to influence what is actually shown on television.
Compaq has a new business service called "Zero latency enterprise" which allows a company to look up your purchase history in less than one second. With an Xbox/UTV combo and a capability like this, Microsoft could display the absolute most effective ads for you and collect royalties from advertisers and networks.
Okay, enough conspiracy theories.
When Microsoft rules the world, I'm moving.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
you're right GT3 kicks ass. But I'm not gonna buy a system for one game. GameCube has like so many, and it goes with my GBA too, which has a huge pile of awesome games.
The PS2 controller is good. Except I don't like the L3 and R3 buttons, I think that's a poor implementation because they can be accidentally pressed while using the analog stick. Also the buttons are analog so the more you press the faster you go.
The XBox controller IS bulky and overdone. You can't reach all the buttons. However, the GameCube is just Nintendo's style. It's not bulky, just looks that way. The Z button is poorly placed some day, but you never need it the same time you need the R button, so it doesn't matter. It's design makes it look very uncomfortable as well, just like the 64 controller. But when you hold it, it's fine. The best part is that the L and R buttons are analog, and you know how hard you are pressing them because they go up and down more than a millimeter. And you know when you've reached max because they click. On the PS2 controller you always push harder, just in case it might get you that extra bit of speed, because there is no indication of when you've reached the maximum that the analog buttons allow.
PS2 controller = good, Gamecube = slightly better, XBox = ow, my hands hurt.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
specifically, gamestop.com (software etc, babbages, planetx, funcoland, and super software
We have had two xboxes returned as defective. BOTH, were from physical damage resulting from the "bounce test" that occurs during shipping.
There were obvious gashes in the cardboard of the box. One one xbox, the 2nd controller port did not function, and the other simply didn't power up.
We've had similar situations with the PS2. There have been no Gamecubes returned and I can't even count how many defective dreamcasts we have.
xxx straight edge xxx
This has got to be a troll or just another GCN fanboy. Try the following unique games that are really great (and these are just the ones I've got):
Now how about the ones that are apparently will eventually be ported, but I already have them:
This of course doesn't include some of the lesser titles, the upcoming titles, and the ones I don't have and didn't include (like SSX Tricky and THPS3, the latter of which I know is available on the GCN already).
Now, maybe you think some of these aren't worth it. Maybe. But for most of us, these are all great reasons to get a PS2.
I'm no Sony fanboy. I've already got a GBA, and as soon as some of the scheduled GCN titles arrive (Mario, Zelda, and some of the RPGs), I'm getting a GCN too.
But there's no way you're going to get my PS2.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
HP, IBM, and depending on who you get, DirecTV are all good.
HP shipped a $400 scanner to replace my $200 scanner, overnight delivery, and paid for shipping both ways to me when my motherboard's USB controller was flaky. Not even their fault.
IBM offered to fly a technician to my house when OS/2 was refusing to use my soundcard. (it was a cheap SB clone at the time). Their suggestions got it working, so I was never able to test the offer.
DirecTV has at least reduced their wait time to just a few seconds, and now has around 5,000 customer service people in 6 centers. Quite a few of them are fairly clueless about DirecTC though, but at least they are willing to find an answer to a question they do not know.
Just wanted to point out some GOOD experiences, when there are so many bad ones to be heard about.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
Comment removed based on user account deletion
First I think CNN is making an issue out of nothing.
:)
;)
AOL/TimeWarner owns CNN.
AOL doesn't play nice with MS.
I wonder why they'd post such blatant FUD?
When my original NES died after only 2 days of play it took 2 months to get a replacement from Nintendo. The store wouldn't take it back, they said I had to deal with Nintendo directly.
When my Princeton Graphics monitor died I went through three remanufactured replacements before I got one that worked. Well worked well enough that I didn't feel the need to deal with those people any more.
It seems today bad customer service is the norm. I'm not sure why, but it might have something to do with the fact that I never formaly complained to Nintendo or Princeton Graphics. I mean when was the last time you did anything but yell at the poor sap making $7/hour answering the phone. Do you think he reported your frustration up the managment chain? He sure as hell did not. He just noted your trouble ticket as completed in the computer and move on.
If anyone is to blame it is the consumers for puting up with this and continuing to purchase goods from these people. I know I'll never buy a Princeton Graphics monitor again, but I did by a Super Nintendo and a N64.
"Failure is not an option, it's part of the standard package"
Yeah. Sega and Sony would never do something dumb like put a modem in a game machine..
:)
Oh wait:
Dreamcast had built in 56k modem
Your recollection of consoles seems limited.
fyi, I had to return my dreamcast because it kept hanging in the same place on the same game. The replacement did not. On the other hand, my XBox has not had any troubles.
Additionaly, the overwhelming majority of the first batch of playstation 1s are now dead, due to CD-Rom failure. Most died after a relatively short amount of time. Additionally, there have been 40 revisions of PS1, 32 of them anti-piracy fixes.
Oh, and I suppose you never got the blinking red light on your 8 bit NES that meant you had to blow on the cartridge, the NES, the cartridge, and the NES again over and over until the thing actually started the game without any weird sprite corruption (if at all )..
The point is, every new console has had failed units. It's a consumer electronics device, and its being treated as such. There is nothing to suggest that XBox is having a higher failure rate than any other console launch..despite the fact that its running a hard disk and that it was put together by a company with no previous experience in building a consumer electronics devices of this type.
Ever since the first rumblings of XBox hit slashdot, people have been badmouthing it. First it was vapourware. Next, no one was going to support it. Then, it was "gamecube will be more powerful".
Yet XBox exists, has more launch titles than Gamecube, and has stunningly better graphics and audio than any other platform gaming platform.
By any measure, XBox has thus far been an outstanding success. Sony is competing based on exclusives, inertia, and branding.. Nintendo is competing with a targeted audience and value pricing. If the microsoft rule of 3 holds true for XBox (MS "gets it right" at version 3), then there may not be a nintendo or a sony console by the time XBox 3 arrives.
I suspect that there is some critical mass of installed units that XBox needs before there will be any real migration away from Sony.. but if that mass is reached, the additional capabilities and ease-of-development may shift sony out of the "Default" spot.
And lets be honest..for all you Gamecube fanboys...Gamecube is such an "also ran".
Hardcore gamers will buy it because they buy every system, and because nintendo will publish the n+1 version of the few relevant franchises they have. Just like for N64 there was a Mario game and 2 Zelda games, so shall there be Mario and Zelda games for Gamecube (well, they've been promised). And there will be the usual assortment of Pokemon and other stuff. Big deal. PS1 broke the gaming industry wide open inspite of N64 and its franchise power, and its stranglehold on the child market. Nintendo may increase its share of the "mario game" and "early childhood" markets, but both of those are shrinking percentages of the overall gaming market.
In an odd twist of fate, assuming Xbox adoption doesn't really happen..._Microsoft_ may be the one whos product fails (to sony) even though it had better technology. That would certainly be a delicious irony on the usual slashdot tale
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
My only complaint is the ridiculous sensitivity of the DVD drive. If you have some dust on the disc or on the tray the system can spew "disc not found" errors after hours of playing. If you have a scratch on a disc you can practically forget it.
It's not enough to seriously detract my enjoyment of the system (it's "crashed" due to "not finding the disc" 2-3 times... it puts you out to the Dashboard and explains the reason), but it's still a bit more than my PS2 has blanked out. Overall I'm actually pretty impressed with the construction and design, with a few "extra" points given since this is MS's first console (I did the same for the original Playstation -- my system overheated regularly). But it's nothing a CD lens cleaner won't fix, and as long as the games are playable -- and fun -- I don't complain.
For 10 dollars more than the price of project gotham alone you could pick up a Dreamcast and Metropolis Street Racing (same racing system as Gotham).
Here's my timeline:
October 26th, 2000: Was all alone at CompUSA for 3 hours before person #2 showed up at about 5AM - People were camped out at the Best Buy next door and the Circuit City across the street, but never thought of little ol' CompUSA. Even one of the radio DJ's came by to keep me company. Got the first of the 6 units at that store.
That day, take it home, stick my Madden 2001 game in, and nothing happened. Stuck in a DVD, and nothing happened. Nothing. Nada. No spinning. No "Detecting".
Called store, and they said they probably wouldn't get any more units until March of 2001, but would gladly refund my money.
Called Sony, and they tried to get me to run diagnostics on the CD, which wouldn't work since it has to be able to know the CD was in the drive to do the diagnostic. So, they said they'd send me an airbill and I could send it to their Repair Depot in California.
October 30th, 2000: Called Sony back, and said that they'll send the airbill tomorrow.
November 2nd, 2000: Called Sony back, and they said they'd send the airbill tomorrow. I said screw it and sent it on my own dime.
November 20th, 2000: After several calls to the repair depot, I get the tracking number of my repaired unit. They sent it UPS Ground during Thanksgiving. Thanks, Sony.
November 28th, 2000: Received my replacement PS2, plugged it in. Put Madden 2001 in, listened to the CD spin...But that was all. Put in a DVD, listened to the CD spin...But that was all. It wasn't detecting the CD at all.
Called Sony, and the guy said "Well we'll send you an airbill and you can send it back to the department..." Wanted to speak to his manager. "All of our managers are busy, sir, they'll call you back later tonight." Right. Sure.
Amazingly, I got a phone call 45 minutes later. He reiterated the "send it back to our repair depot". I then asked for the address where my attorney could contact them. He then told me that he would personally send me an airbill (via FedEx this time) where I could send him my PS2 and he'd just send me a new one.
November 30th, 2000: Amazingly, I receive an airbill in a timely fashion. I send out my PS2 directly to the guy.
December 8th, 2000: Receive new PS2, and have been playing it to this day. I also have two of those blue boxes I keep just to mess with people, as I only sent the unit, but not the packaging materials.
Remember, I sat in line for about 8 hours on October 26th to get a unit that I didn't get to actually play until December 8th. Let's just say, I'll never do that again. (Actually, I did, but I only was in line 30 minutes for an XBox.)
Moral of the story: This happens with ANY console. PS2 had just as bad of a launch as XBox did to this respect. I have gotten lucky with my XBox, but the Software Etc. I go to said that they had 10 returns on launch day from the hard drive crashing.
...I can't say much against the X Box just yet. I do own a Playstation 2 and I wouldn't trade it in for a X Box, but if Microsoft dropped it in my hands I wouldn't be upset over getting free stuff.
What angers me is that even on launch, Dreamcast had some problems. Overheating is one thing that came to mind. Even NES, SNES, Gameboy, Gamecube, PSX, PS2, etc have had problems of such calibre. What I see here is direct biasism towards Microsoft and that is generally unfair (even though MS isn't quite the fair company).
Hell, there are defects in EVERYTHING. For instant, my video card does not like to sync properly unless I edit a few lines in my XF86 configuration file, but I don't go around saying XFree86 or my video card is crap because of that. It is just one of those flaws you have to deal with.
Now, I am not saying that flaws are something we should ignore. Microsoft (and any company or developer) should acknowledge it's problems and attempt to fix them for future releases. Flaws are mistakes, if we acknowledge them and fix them, we have learned from them; if we ignore them, then we have not learned anything at all.
As much as I dislike Microsoft, I am going against this article.
"As the article even states, this is in line with the industry average, even compared to Nintendo who has more console building experience than anyone else in the market hands-down."
They said the defective number of units is the norm. They didn't say that the lousy customer experience was. I've talked to Nintendo customer support several times over the years about various things, and have yet to have anything but a downright pleasurable experience. I've even e-mailed Sony once about their PS2 before I bought one and they actually CALLED me to answer my question. I can't say that my experiences with Microsoft support have been quite so rosy.
"Is it so surprising that the new player on this market might have a few snags with third-party customer service companies?"
As the article points out, this console market is possibly as competitive as it has ever been. They will receive zero mercy from Nintendo and Sony (remember, business is war). If this is a sign that Microsoft doesn't have all it's ducks in a row, then they're going to get left in the dust in a bad way. Investors might want to know about this as well as consumers.
"Just because it's Microsoft doesn't mean their problems with third party CS companies equate to a poor product or a general neglect of their customers. This molehill is not that mountain."
On the other hand, just because they're Microsoft means that they should have problems with customer support. While they may be new to the console wars, customer support is something they're supposed to have been doing since the mid 80's.
a buddy of mine is the manager of The Game Stop (aka Babbages). he told us when we purchased ours (1st release day) that MS wanted all returns to go thourgh their contracted companies. His store (the most active store in Houston) was providing customers with this same info.
:-)
not sure what would happen if an angry customer came in and demanded a new unit within 30 days, but i do know he was told to refuse giving out his stock as replacements.
his MS rep told him there were two reasons for this:
1) giving out a new unit in exchange would lower the Xbox's launch sell total. MS was adamant that they would sell all 1.5 million units pre Dec 31st.
2) MS wanted to be able to tightly manage returns - which it has greater control over when owners ship their defected units to centralized locations.
sounds like the contracted company that MS chose sucked. guess i was fortunate...mines been playing 3-5 hours a day for the whole time!
/* Half alive and half dead too, work is for suckers and the sucker is you. - "Half-life" by Local H*/
Just about all large companies will outsource their call centre-based customer service to companies set up to do just this sort of thing. It's unfortunate because it seems that no 1-800 number you call will ever be able to answer an advanced question.
Call centres are just sweatshops full of min-wagers who can usually only dole out information from FAQ lists they are given about their products.
"Thank you for calling Colgate, this is Kevin, how can I help you?"
"I was calling about my Xbox, actually."
"That's odd, you came in on my Colgate line. Hold for just a moment please. (long wait) OK, I spoke to my supervisor, he says this call definitely came in on the Colgate line. What number did you call?"
"Look, I just have a question about my Xbox, can you help me or not?"
"Oh, OK... let's see... here we are. What's the problem?"
"My hard disk is making a chattering noise and I was wondering if that's normal."
"OK, well I see if you try to raise the back of the bed too far past its maximum position it will start to make a chattering noise, is this what's happening?"
"Huh?"
"Oh, wait, sorry... I clicked Xbox on my computer, and it took me to Sleep-O-Matic! Hold for just a moment (long pause) OK, I spoke to my supervisor, and I definitely clicked on Xbox."
"Right, but can you help me with my Xbox?"
"Well, I'm trying... I can't bring the screen up."
"Oh, OK... let's see. What database are you running?"
"One moment... [long pause] OK my supervisor got me into Xbox. How can I help you?"
"Hard disk chattering."
"Oh yeah right. It says here that if you're playing 'Space Zombies' it's normal for Zog's entourage to make a hi-pitched chattering sound. Double check for me and make sure that's not what you're hearing."
"That's not what I'm hearing."
"OK, it also says that if Zog's entourage doesn't make the chattering sound, you probably have an audio connection problem, could you please check to make sure it's properly connected to your TV?"
<Click>
"Hello? Hello? Hmm, that's odd. Oh well... Thank you for calling Colgate, this is Kevin, how can I help you?"