Lunchbox Computers for Live Music Performances?

Dan Reetz asks: "As a PC based musician, mobility is critical. However, most laptops have horrible soundcards. PCMCIA cards like a VXPocket cost about 700 clams. A friend of mine recommended I look into 'lunchbox' style computers as a portable solution. A few searches revealed them to be quite expensive and they are hard to find used. Does anyone know of a source for used Lunchbox PC's (even just the diplay would be fine) or a better low latency/noise audio solution for laptops?"

Comments

Try a shuttle!

[IIOIOOIOO]

I've seen Shuttle SV24s with pretty good kits inside of them. Starting at $250 buy-in, that's not bad. Also, I've seen one where a guy bolted on an Amp Strap to the top of the case, which seemed to work well.

Re:Try a shuttle!

[Myself]

Yeah, I was looking at an SV24 and some gel-cells to replace my aging laptop. Only problem is, the on-board video doesn't have a digital output, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna run an LCD panel with analog input.

You should check out the review of the FV24 motherboard and the review of the whole system.

Plunk a high-end PCI sound card in this baby, and you're all set. Also, 3.5" drives are way cheaper than 2.5", although not as shock-resistant.

Re:Try a shuttle!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say that I recently purchased a shuttle and stuffed it with a 700 celeron. I have to say that I have had zero problems with it thus far. I really like it and it would work well for what you are looking for. The expandable PCI slot is a perfect place for a good sound card. With the standard 3.5" hardrive slot, I stuffed mine with a 40Gb. But you could use what you want. I also did not install a floppy drive, mine booted right from CDROM so you can even utilize that slot for another hardrive if you wish. Size is great. The packaging for the celeron 700 was as big as the case. Quite a small compact package. And with the PCI slot, you could stuff it with a good sound card.

Re:Try a shuttle!

[TroubleMagnet]

Just so happens that there is a review of this at:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1572

Empeg?

[JoshMKiV]

What about the empeg? http://www.empeg.com

Re:Empeg?

[Anonymous Coward]

The empeg website redirects to Riocar which is now discontinued. From the link about empeg the first line is: "On November 1st 2000 empeg Ltd was acquired by SONICblue." For those of us who are curious, what WAS empeg?

Re:Empeg?

[Night Goat]

Firstly, the Empeg is nearly sold out for good, if it's not already gone. Also, I don't know that the Empeg's interface would be right for musicians. It's pretty time-consuming to find certain mp3s. I am assuming the guy's going to be using the computer as a sampler, not as a way to play songs that have already been fully put together. Talk about your boring concerts!

Re:Empeg?

[JoshMKiV]

Check out http://www.riocar.org It's a little Linux box/MP3 player/dual notebook hard drive setup. Can play in your car, or at home as well. The "Mk2" unit has Ethernet, USB, and all sorts of goodies. You can still get them from SonicBlue, but you better act quickly. BTW, the price was down to $199 for the 10gig unit. Hope some fans picked them up.

USB/Firewire Audio

[self assembled struc]

M-Audio and one other manufacturor (I can't remember their name) make USB and Firewire break out boxes for laptops with Audio In/Out (Balanced XLRS, 1/4 stereo and mono) with on-board high-quality DACs.

I'm looking to get the M-Audio one for my iBook to do digital recording as Macs don't come with Audio in anymore, leaving it up to third parties to make Firewire/USB solutions. They have low latency (I would image the Firewire one would be lower due to Firewire's higher transfer rate), but I've heard nothing but good things about them.

Also, if you're doing sequencing, you can get a MIDI breakout box and connect to another MIDI device for audio output.

Re:USB/Firewire Audio

[MO!]

Roland/EdiRol also has several different USB connected devices ranging from straight audio in/out to combo's with MIDI and optical ports. I'm looking at picking up one of the audio/MIDI combo's once my new guitar arrives.

Re:USB/Firewire Audio

[frankie]

Regarding external equipment and Apple laptops, MacOS X was designed to be very music-friendly. Core Audio has extremely low latency, 32 bits, unlimited channels.

A Combo iBook plus some audio gear should cost less than the lunchbox.

Re:USB/Firewire Audio

[Bilestoad]

Xitel has a good USB 20-bit DAC box for about $50. stereo-link has one including a headphone amplifier for about $150.

USB audio devices

[antibryce]

Why not get a USB audio device? I have the Audiosport Quattro and it works great. www.edirol.com has some nice cheaper ones as well.

Make one Yourself

[Spirit of Ishmael]

Seriously, its not really that hard. Check out the case and cooling forum at ArsTechnica:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a= fr m&s=50009562&f=77909585
Search around and I'm sure you'll find guidelines on how to build if not a lunchbox computer, at least a suitcase computer.

Why replace the whole computer?

[strredwolf]

Why replace a whole computer (with a $999+ component from ThinkGeek, perhapse)? Keep the laptop, but use a different method of getting the tunes *OUT*.

You know that PCMCIA cards suck. Have you tried USB or maybe Paraell port? I know of one product, lp3, hooks into the paraell port and you basically print the MP3 to it. Unfortunately the lp3 is not shipping (they're having problems handling shipping).

I've also heard of the LPBlaster, and of course numerous supported USB audio devices...

PowerBook

[TTop]

The Apple PowerBooks have a good reputation among musicians. Apple has posted a page of music-related technologies for the PowerMac line, such as the AudioSport Quattro 24/96, described as "24-bit 96kHz USB audio and MIDI interface with direct monitoring switches; 4x4 audio interface; with ASIO and OMS MIDI drivers."

Re:PowerBook

[ericdano]

Indeed, Apple powerbooks, both the G3 and G4, are pretty much the ones I see and know of people using on gigs. There are a number of interfaces you can get as well, Firewire or USB.

Another thing to perhaps recommend is getting a rack mounted computer. Most gig rigs are in portable racks, so perhaps getting a rack mounted computer would solve the portability/durability issue.

But still, people seem to be more inclined to use laptops or even all in ones like the iMac. It's not so much a ruggedness, but a clean easy hookup issue. Less cables are better, and a laptop with a USB or Firewire hookup to your synths/modules/interfaces that are in racks seems to be the best way to do things....

Some good replies

[3ryon]

There was a similar article on Slashdot (a long time ago, not a dig at /. editors) which should have some good ideas for you. I only remember it because I was the one who asked the question.

Not Cheap But nice

[Heem]

Check out CyberResearch (PDF) or Their Website for some nice machines like you describe. I know I've posted about them before, I used to work for them, and while, this stuff is not cheap, it is high quality and they stand behind it. If this is going to be your livelyhood, why not do it right the first time. I'd rather spend $3000 once then spend $1000 4 times.

Shuttle SV24 case...

[Junta]

This case and appropriate components (flatpanel monitor) could work well for this, so long as you have a nice PCI, USB, or firewire device for your audio. Of course, I don't know if having everything so cramped increases interference in the audio components, but if you are really in need of this quality you probably want a set up that keeps things digital until the signal is well away from the computer itself.

Notebook musician

[sid_vicious]

Here's a site devoted to getting mobile music out of your notebook.

He recommends the "EMU8710" and the "WaMi Box". A quick net search shows 'em both running about $400 - a little more reasonable than the $700 quoted above.

Alternatives studio grade stuff

[Daath]

EgoSys has two products that you could use for notebooks: WaMi Box, which is a PCMCIA, and Waveterminal U2A, which is supposedly very good.

You should also check out usb-audio.com!

Midiman

[GoatPigSheep]

Midiman makes the quattro usb based sound system that apparently has very low latency and excelent quality. The price is pretty low too. It has 4 i/o's and you can get the omni system that adds 8 more inputs to it

Try USB audio

[greygent]

I'm also an electronic musician and have had good luck with USB audio adapters.

There are three rather good cheap ones out right now:
- The iMic which works on Win32 machines and run for $35, check out their stats at www.griffintechnology.com. 24 bit/48khz, etc.

As well as the somewhat cheap entries from Emagic and Roland/Edirol

All three support ASIO, I believe. I've never experienced any performance issues with USB audio devices, as the USB bandwidth is more than enough to handle audio tasks.

Screw the lunchbox, and just stick with the laptop, it's much easier to work from one computer, and if you're like me, you're surgically attached to your laptop.

MOTU 828 + Laptop = Live Performance

[__roo]

I've had great results with my MOTU 828. It's a rack-mount unit that connects to my laptop via Firewire, with many digital (2 channel S/PDIF I/O, 8 channel 24-bit ADAT lightpipe) and analog inputs (6 1/4" and 2 Neutrik XLR/TRS combo connectors with optional 48v phantom power), all with 24-bit converters w/excellent range) and outputs (8 1/4"). It's rack mountable, it's got drivers for PC and Mac, and it's very dependable -- I've had absolutely no problems whatsoever. And it ships with both ASIO and WDM drivers for PC, which means that it will work with any sequencer or audio program.

a nice matrix of laptop audio options

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a nice breakdown of the laptop audio interface options (geared towards PowerBooks, but all of these are available for PC, too).

http://www.subminimal.com/ear/pbaudio.html

I have the Emagic EMI 2|6 myself, which I like a lot. I'd look at a number of these solutions rather than a "lunchbox" computer.

Bill
--
http://www.chromedecay.org

Some tips for cleaner audio

[-=[ SYRiNX ]=-]

I used to do a lot of tracker and MIDI music and I learned many helpful tips about eliminating audio noise in electronic systems:

• Run every device you can on batteries. The power supplied by batteries is always vastly cleaner than power converted from AC.
• Use gold-plated connectors for all audio signal wires.
• If an audio-generating device must run off AC, plug it into the same jack/strip that your preamp/amp use to ensure solid AC grounding and eliminate hum.
• Purchase a new laptop, and do your homework first. Take along a pair of quality headphones (Sennheisers are recommended) and listen carefully to the integrated audio output for noise that may be generated when other devices in the system (hard drive, CD-ROM drive, processor, video) are doing actual work.
• Parallel-port-driven audio solutions are usually the cleanest, lowest-latency solutions. Numerous websites describe the construction of such a device, or you can purchase them pre-made at some places. The next lowest latency solution is the laptop's integrated audio, although the quality of the audio output varies dramatically among brands/models.
• Make sure your laptop has LOTS of RAM (at least 256 MB), and kill off all background programs, screen savers, power management, and other automated doodads that can kick off in the middle of a performance. For instance, there's no need to have an AntiVirus program sucking up resources during a gig! This will minimize latency.
• Everyone and their dog will recommend using cables that are as short as possible. This is far less important than using high-quality cables. I personally use and recommend Monster Cable brand's highest quality offerings as a bare minimum. It's expensive, but it's truly worth it, and you can still use relatively long cables to allow yourself some slack.
• For running components off AC, use either a power-filtering UPS unit, a power-filtering surge-protected AC power strip, or both. By merely plugging all AC-powered components into a Monster Cable clean-power strip I was able to eliminate all audible hiss and hum from my home theater system.

24bitfaq.org

[shooz]

24bitfaq.org is an excellent resource for high quality moble recording info.

shoOz

Get the Emagic EMI 2|6, $325

[Darlington]

I use a notebook computer for live performances, and bought the Emagic EMI 2|6 USB audio interface. It's great. 24-bit DAC, 48 KHz, 2 ins, 6 outs, coaxial S/PDIF, $325. If you use Logic Audio like me, then it gives you the added bonus of low-latency virtual instrument playback. Check it out.

Instructions for briefcase computer

[Kevbo]

I think this was posted on /. once. These will probably help you:

http://www.supersiteusa.com/lanjunky1/briefcase1 .h tm

Might want to look at GUISE (or chilli) tiny case.

[Anonymous Coward]

This case is just barely bigger than an ATX motherboard (and won't fit the larger ones). Put a good sound and video card in here and the resulting machine should be quite small and light. Though you'll still need a TV or monitor of some kind.

http://www.wahoocomputers.com/cgi-bin/store/comm er ce.cgi?product=guise_case

Re:all you need is a handle

[BigBir3d]

That would be the sv24 made by shuttle, available at Newegg.com.

only 1 expansion slot though...

The iMic

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the iMic and it works exceedingly well.

USB audio is the way to go.

-andy