Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Caught Rigging ZD Net Poll
Dj writes "Microsoft have been found to be rigging a ZDNet
poll". Apparently they didn't dig on the idea of .NET losing.
Of course as anyone knows, never trust an online poll because this
sort of stuff is obviosly happening all the time. I just wonder how
many comments posted around the net are posted with the same
goals in mind.
This is what their marketing department does all day ...
Figures.
-----
Many addled Microsoft employees mistakenly voted for Pat Buchanan
Wow, M$ must be really hurting for cash! They usually just buy a good rating!
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -- "Step Right Up", Tom Waits
pronoblem
... this is particularly annoying because it's exactly this sort of statistic that will be used by middle-management (and/or Microsoft flacks) to justify switching project backbones to .NET
.NET! Guess we should too!"
"Well, look, this says 74% of programmers out there are eager to use
It's not like this is some hobbyist site. It's ZDNet. Some people actually listen to them.
And it's not like you're voting for Coolest Transformer of All Time. They're creating a grossly skewed statistic that could actually be used to figure out where millions of dollars gets invested.
AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
- Reakk, Sluggy Freelance
They'll be trolling slashdot and having dead people send letters to their congresscritters.
Best Slashdot Co
The poll is still available here. It carries no warnings or disclaimers that the poll has been massively rigged by Microsoft.
Why?
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Is this terribly different from what happens when slashdot has a post announcing some poll about linux? I'm sure we've rigged our share in the past. Not that I think Microsoft is right. I'm just trying to give a little perspective and play devil's advocate for a moment. Feel free to mod me down because you dissagree.
Dozings.com -- Its kinda funny... If you're as crazy as me.
What probably happened is, some MS sales guy stumbled across the poll so he drafted an e-mail entitled "PLEASE STOP AND VOTE FOR .NET!" This goes along with the take-no-prisoners attitude that has been seen coming from MS execs like that sales guy who wrote the "kill linux" e-mails. So the e-mail makes the rounds, everyone at MS clicks over to the poll and votes for .NET. Nothing major, just shows you why web polls can't be trusted.
I seriously doubt that this was organized by anyone high level at MS.. probably just a salesman who thought it would be a good idea to get everyone to vote in the poll.
Maybe, maybe not. If you do a search on google for "poll rig fix", here's the 3rd result.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/13255.html
As show recently on the website www.ZDnet.com online polling is often subject to massive fraud and inapropriate uses. Microsoft has again chosen to lead the way in this expanding market with an extention to the Hailstorm initative called "Zeitgiest".
"Hailstorm.Zeitgeist.net will allow content creators new abilities to track online poll submitions and ensure acurate results", says Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates. "With this technology available our marketing departments will finaly be able to track down those whiny little.. Oh, wrong one." *FUMBLE* *FUMBLE* "This technology will will allow webmasters to do neat stuff with authentication", continued Gates.
When asked for his input CEO Steve Balmer added "DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!"
In possibly related news 1337 script kiddy Dr3am!D3m0n on the IRC channel #hax0r5 commented, "Oh cool. That dwarf thing was funny but I guarantee RMS is gonna be on People's 25 Sexiest Celebrities this year."
There's no reason to think that any of the people who voted in that poll are actually planning to deploy any kind of Web infrastructure, ever. Most of those who voted are probably 13 year olds who think that "Java is cool", so they voted for it.
Even if the poll results were completely "fair" before MS started stuffing ballots, who's to say that the cross-section of people that responded was at all appropriate. Real polling companies spend a lot of effort trying to get statistically-valid results, which is why they charge money for the service.
I know that if any product I work on shows up in a popularity poll (again), I'll vote early and often, and encourage others to do the same.
-Mark
Second, Microsoft uses proxying for Internet-related stuff, which could make the multi-vote issue appear to be worse than it actually is, as many separate users would come from a single IP.
Third, yes, it seems someone ran a script from within the microsoft.com domain. That could've been anyone in the company with a PC. My bet is on "random stupid employee". If it were an actual conspiracy, I doubt they would've done it from something within the microsoft.com domain.
In short, it's the same bullshit that happens with every web poll. While it doesn't reflect well on the company, it almost certainly is the evil marketing conspiracy that everyone makes it out to be.
Rather, this is about a company creating an illusion of popularity, in order to sell a technology and a philosophy that customers are hesitent to buy. People are keen to keep up with the Jonses, but nobody wants to be caught with a dead fish. Microsoft knows this. The only way
THAT is the purpose of the ballot rigging. And this may actually be a further Monopoly violation. They are leveraging a monopoly in one area to create a monopoly in another. This is in violation of the Sherman Act, which Microsoft has been convicted of violating.
Should this "incident" be taken to the courts, as evidence of further legal violations, by the dissenting States, I could very well imagine the judge being extremely unhappy with Microsoft. Breaking the law that you're already on trial for breaking generally doesn't win many friends.
The leaked letters, alleging that Microsoft is trying to spy out Linux installations, and pressure companies into replacing them, during technical support calls, may also prove a bitter poison to Microsoft, come March.
This is not the mark of a company in fear. This is the mark of a company that has had its fear glands surgically removed, and is hell-bent on enslaving all minds and all technology to its will.
In short, Microsoft's recent attitudes are perfectly timed, given the recent LoTR movie release. Forget the Borg, Bill Gates is either Sauron or Morgoth.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
When I asked "What do you get if you cross the Cult of $cientology with Steve Ballmer?", I was being rhetorical! I didn't want to find out!
It's terribly short sighted of tech companies to resort to this type of tactic, because it makes everyone in the industry look bad. Gloating over M$ getting bashed for this kind of behavior doesn't do much for improving public perception of technology companies. A lot of people I know already have a negative view of Information Technology and think it's eletist.
Here's to hoping companies learn to behave more ethically, but I'm not holding my breathe.
This is nothing new.
Our company has 40k employees and whenever there is a big poll somewhere involving any of our products, a memo is sent out to the entire company telling everyone to go vote for our products.
Needless to say, even a portion of that 40,000 can drastically change the skew of a poll.
I always vote for a competitor because I find it detestible that my employer would do this.
Definitely not. In fact they have done much worse stuff, at the executive level.
Becuase it's a poll. When someone reads that 74% of poll respondants think blah, they assume that it's an accurate sample of what everyone thinks. But those same people conveniently gloss over the fact that this is a non-scientific poll.
What you see here is an attempt by Microsoft to convince the their skeptics that lots of people like Microsoft. Microsoft couldn't care less about the people who already chose them. They want to convince the people who voted for Java that they're in the minority, and they ought to reconsider switching to .NET... "everyone's doing it!". And in the software developer world, the more in the minority you are, the more difficult it is to sell your wares.
It's worse than normal marketing. It's seriously slimey. It's not just a lie. It's an attempt to make someone else (ZDNet) lie for you! It's despicable... and no less so when /. does it.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
He has to be, he's getting way too many votes
http://www.kubuntu.org/
Not to sound pro-Microsoft (or pro-Linux, pro-*BSD, etc), but who really cares? it's just another web popularity poll with no scientific basis or anything. So someone at Microsoft saw the poll and sent around an email telling everyone to vote for .NET, and to pass the message along. This isn't any different than if Linux users did the same thing, pass an email around and tell people to vote Linux. The poll basically means NOTHING. The same thing happened at the college I went to, there was some online battle of the Mascots or something and I'd get emails from the IS dept secretary telling us to vote for Bucky Badger. Same exact thing.
As for the automated multiple vote scripts...well, can't blame them for trying.
I really does, and not just online. I worked for a company that did websites for radio stations. We were reading results from a poll as part of an on-air contest where people could call in or use the web to vote for their favorite band. After a snafu with the data, we contacted the station to apologize for losing about a quarter of the results of the first few hours of the contest. We were expecting to be (quite rightly) reamed for it even though the contest had the rest of the week to run its course.
As it turned out, they didn't mind at all. They had already decided who the top two choices would be and only cared which of the two came out on top. In short, Limp Bizkit was popular, but not THAT popular.
I won't name names, but perhaps folks who listen to popular radio in the Chicago area (and other major venues) should keep this in mind the next time your radio station claims to give you what *YOU* want.
It's not just online...
- I don't need to go outside, my CRT tan'll do me just fine.
Bill: Damnit, blocked again.
Steve: Bill, if it didn't work the other 226 times you tried to reclick, what makes you think it will work the 227th?
There is a very high incidence of people attempting to cast multiple votes, even though the poll script blocked out most attempts at multiple voting. The one that wins the prize made 228 attempts to vote. This person was from within the microsoft.com domain.
There will soon be a poll on the Microsoft web site where 90% will indicate that Microsoft did nothing wrong and the allegation is completely unfounded.
Microsoft got caught ages ago with its hand in the cookie jar doing exactly that with the Barkto indcident.
-----
Free P2P Backup, Windows & Linux
Of course, the "powers that be" probably won't care that Microsoft cheated on this (or any other) poll. All they know is to bet on a winner -- Microsoft -- even if that winner is a lying, cheating scum-bag. After all, winning is all that matters in the U.S. today, isn't it?
Damn, I'm getting cynical in my old age. ;)
All about me
But at least they are *incompetent* bastards....
Your competitors are probably doing the same thing, so don't bother.
I can see it now:
PHB: We have to use Java for our next project.
Dilbert: Why?
PHB: According to this ZDNet poll, 99% of IT Professionals say it's the best choice.
Dilbert: Ummm... 1,234,243,324,234 votes for Java vs. 98,234,242,123 for .Net. Doesn't that tell you something?
PHB: Don't bother me with the technical details, just get to work. We have a client in London with a trillion customers who need it by next Tuesday.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
If a UPS guy runs over somebody while on UPS time, UPS is held accountable.
If the register person at McDonalds reaches across the coulter an punches you, McDonalds is responsibles.
If I write a sript that causes another company to loose all its data, the company I work for is responsible.
Sure, the people who commmit the offence are to blame as well, but company are responsible for the actions of there employee's.
If a company sent you an email that said "Please remeber to Go Vote", an thats it, fine, got no problm with that, but if a company says "Go Vote For Gore" Now we have a problem. PIF, companies have gotten into trouble for encouraging employees to vote for a specific candidate.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I agree with you... up to the point that each person should vote once. But I guess the guy who submitted 228 votes for MS will be implementing 228 different web services next year?
- fader
At least the audience at ZDNet is likely to be aware that such things happen.
What bothers me is when CNN puts up a poll like "Now that we've squashed the Taliban, should we go after Saddam Hussein?"
For one thing, their audience is less likely to be familiar with statistical methods, and for another, I'm sure I've heard them report the results of "an online survey" as news, which gives it far more weight than it deserves.
... because everyone knows online polls aren't statistically valid by any stretch of the imagination.
In your dreams. NOT everyone knows this, and even if they do know it, they're still likely to use these stupid polls when forming an opinion.
When teenagers buy some stock and talk it up in chat rooms before dumping it, they get in trouble even though the rumors they spread obviously have no statistical validity. Most people are innumerate and don't base their buying decisions on statistically valid information. They're influenced by stupid stuff like online polls and rumors. Part of the blame lies with zdnet for running a stupid online poll like this one. Their crime is laziness- a good poll is more work and takes more time. Easier to throw a stupid script on the site and see what happens. But most of the blame belongs squarely on the people at MS who tampered with the information.
This poll wasn't something like "Who's your favorite Spice Girl?". Its intended audience is the clueless IT guy who's got a limited budget and is faced with a decision on whether to use MS or non-MS technology for a given project. The only conceivable purpose of the poll manipulation was to sway these people. How is pumping up a worthless stock any worse than pumping up a worthless technology?
Web polls are inherently untrustworthy. Everyone knows this. No big deal.
You and your friends know this. Lots of people don't. I would even say that the people most likely to be swayed by this poll are the ones who control the largest amounts of technology spending.
To most PHBs this would be considered big news that Microsoft intentionally tried to alter an online poll. Just because "we" know how they have behaived badly before doesnt meen that the PHBs do. Most of them are just aware of what the MS salesperson tells them when he visit their company. No sane person would let MS into their company if the knew what they wore locking themswlves into and just how low MS seems to be willing to go in their marketing and sales efforts. Im not biased, just well informed after 20 years in computers.
HTTP/1.1 400
OK, so at least some users cheated and voted more than once. But its doubtful that upper management directed the cheating or would have even condoned it, as obvious cheating would only apply more tarnish to Microsofts reputation.
As far as I'm concerned, unless the poll specified that Microsoft employees were ineligible to vote, its a valid win, even if 95 percent of the respondents came from the microsoft.com domain.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
I guess what I'd argue ethics wise is whether its right for the employees for the company creating the product should vote to say "I'm using the product its cool". On one hand it is a whole bunch of people that ARE implementing .NET products. On the other hand its 1 single company implementing all those projects.
Not that I will defend MS on the ethics front here because they were trying to boost the score for .NET. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say they rigged the vote. There are 40,000 MS employees many of which who are extremely loyal to the company who would vote from inside the MS firewall. All of those votes would be routed through the proxies so all 40,000 votes from independant people would actually look like they came from a few hundred IP's.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
"when people click there from a Microsoft Exchange email message, Exchange helpfully gives us the subject line and username."
This bothers me far more than the "poll fixing" Do people realize that this kind of information is leaking all over the net? Is there a way to disable this "feature"?